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"Will you be remembered as positive and contributory forum member or as someone who endlessly and daily posted your own opinions on the topic of the day and then became increasingly aggressive and abusive toward anyone who disagreed with you? There will be a forum long after June 23rd people. Just a thought "i would suggest that those who exhibit such behaviour will either fade away or stay and gloat depending on the result, such behaviour is most likely a trait they have so this issue is just one avenue to portray that.. | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. " I think you may be hoping in vain. I believe that this referendum is about a lot more than our continued relationship with the EU. I think it has a lot more to do with dividing left wing opposition to the ultra right wing policies of to days Tory party and securing their grip on power. I think in years to come many will look back on this and ask why they were able to see how they were being distracted and divided while being conned out of the birthright their grandparents and great grandparents fought and died to win for them.  | |||
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"The Tories will reunite after June 23rd, but the Labour leadership has been ominously quiet during this campaign and I strongly suspect that if we vote to leave Corbyn will be replaced. Cameron is going anyway and he'll step down by the end of next year which means both parties will have new leaders going into 2020. Johnson as sitting PM and more than likely Andy Burnham for Labour." On the EU the Tories have not been united for a couple of decades and which way it goes it could well serve to either prompt defections by some.. Johnson would be a nightmare and Burnham whilst popular with some has too much baggage from his time in cabinet under Blair.. | |||
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"The Tories will reunite after June 23rd, but the Labour leadership has been ominously quiet during this campaign and I strongly suspect that if we vote to leave Corbyn will be replaced. Cameron is going anyway and he'll step down by the end of next year which means both parties will have new leaders going into 2020. Johnson as sitting PM and more than likely Andy Burnham for Labour. On the EU the Tories have not been united for a couple of decades and which way it goes it could well serve to either prompt defections by some.. Johnson would be a nightmare and Burnham whilst popular with some has too much baggage from his time in cabinet under Blair.. " boris is a clown not a leader he would be a dissaster for the uk. | |||
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"I'll still be known as the guy who sat on the fence for so long, he got a splinter in his bum. "Budge-up Steve....... I'm with you.... After-all anyone who knows anything, knows fence sitting gives the best views of both sides..  | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. " Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . | |||
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"That goes for the 'professionals ' too. I've heardly heard any sensible discussion in the whole campaign from either side. There was a replay on the radio of some of the 1972 EEC debate well before my time, it was between Jenkins and Tony Benn. They were quiet while the other one spoke, then would reply with things like "that's afair point but what about this or that" , other one replying "I see what you mean, but that only works if x,y,z " . Complete contrast to the soundbite career men we have now. " You are totally right in what you say. Roy Jenkins and Tony Benn were intelligent, principled, social democrats who (like the majority of politicians, Labour, Liberal and Tory, of their era) entered politics after military war service to make a difference and build a better future for everyone. The lot we have today enter politics before they finish their education and see it as a lucrative career and an easy way to get to gain and wield powers they obviously have neither the intellect or morals to be trusted with. | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . " well i am sure he was advised to put in the referendum pledge because i am positive they thought they would never have to go thru with it they would be in coalition again.... they could point to the other party and blame them, and everything would be hunky dory to something they didn't ever want to do...... | |||
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"The Tories will reunite after June 23rd, but the Labour leadership has been ominously quiet during this campaign and I strongly suspect that if we vote to leave Corbyn will be replaced. Cameron is going anyway and he'll step down by the end of next year which means both parties will have new leaders going into 2020. Johnson as sitting PM and more than likely Andy Burnham for Labour. On the EU the Tories have not been united for a couple of decades and which way it goes it could well serve to either prompt defections by some.. Johnson would be a nightmare and Burnham whilst popular with some has too much baggage from his time in cabinet under Blair.. " It won't be Osborne, he's tainted in the eyes of the electorate and living up here in a Labour heartland I have seen and heard how popular Johnson is with traditional socialist voters. The man appeal and he will secure victory for the Tories if he's sitting PM in 2020. Labour have never elected a woman to lead them and that is starting to be used by the media. It's the stick with which they can be beaten. | |||
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"That goes for the 'professionals ' too. I've heardly heard any sensible discussion in the whole campaign from either side. There was a replay on the radio of some of the 1972 EEC debate well before my time, it was between Jenkins and Tony Benn. They were quiet while the other one spoke, then would reply with things like "that's afair point but what about this or that" , other one replying "I see what you mean, but that only works if x,y,z " . Complete contrast to the soundbite career men we have now. You are totally right in what you say. Roy Jenkins and Tony Benn were intelligent, principled, social democrats who (like the majority of politicians, Labour, Liberal and Tory, of their era) entered politics after military war service to make a difference and build a better future for everyone. The lot we have today enter politics before they finish their education and see it as a lucrative career and an easy way to get to gain and wield powers they obviously have neither the intellect or morals to be trusted with." Spot on. It's only Jeremy Corbyn out of the entire crop of front-line politicos who has that sort of principalled and thoughtful approach to the job. This is why he is staying out of the farcical EU 'debate', and good on him for that. | |||
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"The Tories will reunite after June 23rd, but the Labour leadership has been ominously quiet during this campaign and I strongly suspect that if we vote to leave Corbyn will be replaced. Cameron is going anyway and he'll step down by the end of next year which means both parties will have new leaders going into 2020. Johnson as sitting PM and more than likely Andy Burnham for Labour. On the EU the Tories have not been united for a couple of decades and which way it goes it could well serve to either prompt defections by some.. Johnson would be a nightmare and Burnham whilst popular with some has too much baggage from his time in cabinet under Blair.. It won't be Osborne, he's tainted in the eyes of the electorate and living up here in a Labour heartland I have seen and heard how popular Johnson is with traditional socialist voters. The man appeal and he will secure victory for the Tories if he's sitting PM in 2020. Labour have never elected a woman to lead them and that is starting to be used by the media. It's the stick with which they can be beaten. " If Johnson manages to get a shot at being PM he'll be out again within 9 months. There are a few remaining Tory MPs who are sick of being led by liars, and Johnson makes Cameron look like an honest man! The scrutiny Boris as PM would be under will finish him. | |||
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" Labour have never elected a woman to lead them and that is starting to be used by the media. It's the stick with which they can be beaten. " hang on.... last time i checked it was only 1-0 to the tories on the woman leader front.....  so lets not quite make it out that the conservatives are the party of "boobs and tits" now......
100 of labour's 230ish are women....
60 of conservatives 320ish are women... | |||
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"I'm not disputing that Fabio. All I'm saying is that the media are picking up on labour having never elected a woman to lead them." i think given who owns most of the media and some of the leanings of the the other's to the right its hardly a surprise.. look at how they rounded upon Millibands father.. | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . " From reading that it seems you don't believe in democracy and you don't like the people having their say. Typical anti democratic EU attitude many on the Remain side seem to display. | |||
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"I'll still be known as the guy who sat on the fence for so long, he got a splinter in his bum.
Budge-up Steve....... I'm with you....
After-all anyone who knows anything, knows fence sitting gives the best views of both sides.. " | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . From reading that it seems you don't believe in democracy and you don't like the people having their say. Typical anti democratic EU attitude many on the Remain side seem to display. " Ironic you are spinning a post about post referendum debate into a slanging match | |||
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . From reading that it seems you don't believe in democracy and you don't like the people having their say. Typical anti democratic EU attitude many on the Remain side seem to display. " I believe totally in democracy. You choose to misunderstand me: Referendums play no part in British democracy; British democracy is based on the mandate held by parliament. Our democracy relies onus electing our members of parliament, who ( should) represent us. By using referendums, parliament ante gates its responsibility, and undermines the parliamentary system. People have their say at general elections, and by petitioning their members of parliament . A referendum anyway, has no standing in law making or policy making, or on governmental action, As a result of a referendum ( which in law does nothing except tell the government what the view of those who voted was, ) the government may choose to present an option to oarliament( in this case in or out of the EU ) which parliament vote on. What I am pointing out is that both of those referendums have created divisions across the population of the country, have been extremely damaging, which will take many years to resolve themselves. This damage did not need to be done. | |||
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"During and after the scottish indepence referrendum I lost friends because of how abusive and vile things got - and I see the same happening now. Unnecessary - everyone is due an opinion."
And while other on this thread descend into yet more efforts to try and outmanoeuvre each other with their points of view, this post returns to the point of the thread in the first place.
I also know people who lost life long friends, even had family rifts caused by the Scottish referendum.
I can see it happening already and it's going o get worse. Maybe time for some to take a step back and ask themselves if there are more important things in life than politics.
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"Either way, after the referendum I hope there will be no recriminations and open hostility if and when things go wrong.. With politicians etc. Too much to hope; In fact this referendum has not only widened the splits and chaos in both main political parties; But has exposed ( and inflamed) deep divisions amongst the population at large. Whichever way it goes, the " losing " side will be bitter for a very long time . Referendums like this do nothing but cause deep division. The Scottish referendum, for instance, did not " put the question to bed" but left it exposed; deep divisions across Scotland, a lot of bitterness and hatred inflamed and exposed . Whichever way you are voting on the Referendum, and whatever the result is, Cameron goes down in history as the PM who has twice nearly fucked up ) perhaps actually fucked up) the constitution and the UK . Neither the Svottish referendum nor the EU referendum needed to happen. He should just have said " bollocks to referendums, they are not happening, I lied" and everyone would have just got on with their lives and still hated him, so it would make no difference . From reading that it seems you don't believe in democracy and you don't like the people having their say. Typical anti democratic EU attitude many on the Remain side seem to display. Ironic you are spinning a post about post referendum debate into a slanging match "it's his modus operandi, evade, divert and deflect from any facts or answers that don't suit his agenda.. | |||
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