FabSwingers.com forum: Where Next For UKIP?

By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never really thought about it much

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is? "

They try to survive on the Welsh Assembly funds?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Turkeys voting for... etc

despite much talk about how well they would do last year, the seats didn't materialise ..

if we were in Brexit then a lot of people may well look at them and think 'what their point'..

another imponderable..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they are elected they will do exactly like the others, bending over to whoever has money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they are elected they will do exactly like the others, bending over to whoever has money.

"
.

Yeah more than likely!

Money does what it does

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is? "
think most will go back to the Tory party a few back to the bnp and some will carry on as before regardless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't tend to be one of those people that demonizes politicans..

Except for Osborne he is the fucking devil incarnate

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By *uckandbunnyCouple
over a year ago

The Wild Wetness

Like any single issue party if they achieve the goal they will need to disband/merge or change.

I could definitely see them being changing their name to the independence party.

Probably supporting a free market - entrepreneur type role. Probably with a more loose association between the party membership.

I'd imagine they would push for more PR to get seats and I could see the conservatives supporting it to lock out the labour party forever.

However it's very likely that despite their wishes, once their single issue is resolved one way or the other they will dissolve into nothing.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"If they are elected they will do exactly like the others, bending over to whoever has money.

the 2020 general election or if as some think an earlier one may well take place with us out of the EU so why would anyone vote for a party whose only aim is to get us out..?

they could always 'rebrand'..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hopefully they will disappear....and i was under the impression they already were the acceptable face of the BNP..should such a thing exist...

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"If they are elected they will do exactly like the others, bending over to whoever has money.

You do realise that we're not actually voting to elect anyone this time, don't you?

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By *ames6ft5Man
over a year ago

North London / Herts

If you think the EU is branded as the root of most that is wrong with modern Britain now, you wait till we Brexit. When we're on the outside but getting a crap deal on something or not happy with French farners blocking ferry ports due to some internal strife in France there will still be a UKIP pointing the finger. The EU will be perceived as an even greater frustration than it is today.

Oh and if the EU crumbles on our exit the finger will be pointed at the Germans, French, {insert European country here}. It's those pesky foreigners that muck it up for us every time I tell you!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"hopefully they will disappear....and i was under the impression they already were the acceptable face of the BNP..should such a thing exist..."

Seriously, I believe they will feel they are needed more than ever to ensure they oversee the exit negotiations.

If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

Plus, Nige will have to have a couple of years of gloating on television telling us this is all down to him.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"If you think the EU is branded as the root of most that is wrong with modern Britain now, you wait till we Brexit. When we're on the outside but getting a crap deal on something or not happy with French farners blocking ferry ports due to some internal strife in France there will still be a UKIP pointing the finger. The EU will be perceived as an even greater frustration than it is today.

Oh and if the EU crumbles on our exit the finger will be pointed at the Germans, French, {insert European country here}. It's those pesky foreigners that muck it up for us every time I tell you!

Yeah, bloody EU sending us rain for the Queen's official birthday outdoor lunch and all those street parties.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"hopefully they will disappear....and i was under the impression they already were the acceptable face of the BNP..should such a thing exist...

Seriously, I believe they will feel they are needed more than ever to ensure they oversee the exit negotiations.

If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

Plus, Nige will have to have a couple of years of gloating on television telling us this is all down to him.

what a thought..

odious gloating..

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Plus, Nige will have to have a couple of years of gloating on television telling us this is all down to him.

what a thought..

odious gloating..

He started weeks ago so it will just be a continuation.

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

"What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is? "

One can only assume that like any other party in politics which has risen to power in the past or present that they will rise to the table and start implementing their rules/legislation to their standards in terms of running the country through parliament..

the question is how would they go about it and what real changes would take place? I've never bothered voting myself or ever will for anything in politics but that's just my perspective OP.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents."

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

But by then the die is cast. The 'club' will be pissed off and 'out' is not getting any deals done. Hell hath no fury like an EU scorned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

I think this could be the nightmare scenario.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

Priti will be positioning herself with her Tory colleagues and will be seeking the bigger prizes of senior cabinet positions under BoJo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

see how it goes, cant see us leaving the EU some how even though almost everyone i know personally, is voting out but then the same people also voted For UKIP in the last elections.

who better to lead us out than farage

the best we can hope is a vote out & Cameron Resigns. (i guess that would leave Boris the chance to run for leader?)

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

"English Independence Every Immigrant Out"

Or EIEIO

At least they'd have a catchy song

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

"English Independence Every Immigrant Out"

Or EIEIO

At least they'd have a catchy song

You've been giving this some serious thought.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

But by then the die is cast. The 'club' will be pissed off and 'out' is not getting any deals done. Hell hath no fury like an EU scorned.

Perhaps for Greece, but for a net contributor? Methinks 'prodigal son' is more likely

(but without our rebate)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

nope... someone can leave a party and remain the representative.... its convension that they should contest a by election, but they don't have to....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nigel will appear on xtreme fishing as robson green's double in a episode lol.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

But by then the die is cast. The 'club' will be pissed off and 'out' is not getting any deals done. Hell hath no fury like an EU scorned.

Perhaps for Greece, but for a net contributor? Methinks 'prodigal son' is more likely

(but without our rebate)"

We'd have to have the Euro and all opt-outs would be lost. They veto will allow nothing less for the prodigal than returning with tail between legs AND cap in hand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

"English Independence Every Immigrant Out"

Or EIEIO

At least they'd have a catchy song

What ? With Priti Patel as leader ?

You do realise she is Asian don't you ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imagine the ridiculous posturing of Farage gets to play any part in post-Brexit negotiations. Boris will be bad enough.

Trade Wars here we come

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

There's no way Nige could give up his attention habit so probably reshaped themselves as a Tea party equivalent

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

"English Independence Every Immigrant Out"

Or EIEIO

At least they'd have a catchy song

What ? With Priti Patel as leader ?

You do realise she is Asian don't you ? "

I never let such petty issues such as 'facts' get in the way of a witty post.

Now hush, I'm writing the verses, I sense there's money to be made here...

(all I have so far is

"Old man Farage had a plan, EIEIO"

)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we vote out then I think UKIP are done .

To be fair I think Farage would be quite happy with that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/06/16 23:00:35]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If only we could believe that. It would be just about the only tempting argument for Brexit.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"Now hush, I'm writing the verses, I sense there's money to be made here...

(all I have so far is

"Old man Farage had a plan, EIEIO"

)

"and in that plan

there was an Atkinson EIEIO

with a tingtong here and a ting tong there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pretty sure it would be the case . I want out then English Independence , so not sure what UKIP could offer ?

Hopefully Priti Patel to form a new party

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Old man Farage had a plan, EIEIO

And in that plan there was a flaw, EIEIO

With a Dutchman here, a Spaniard there, here a Greek, there a Pole, everywhere a vital EU immigrant keeping our NHS from imploding under the weight of demand from an ageing and ever more obese nation.

Oh, hang on, that last bit doesn't quite scan...

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Old man Farage had a plan, EIEIO

And in that plan there was a flaw, EIEIO

Oh, hang on, that last bit doesn't quite scan...

Unexpected item in the bagging area?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We could just spend money and train our own citizens to keep the NHS a float !

Just a thought

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"We could just spend money and train our own citizens to keep the NHS a float !

Just a thought

Yeah, but you need to put 'EIEIO' at the end of it.

(I thought we did, but they all left to go into private medicine where there is more money, because we don't link their training cost to future minimum service requirements)

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"We could just spend money and train our own citizens to keep the NHS a float !

Just a thought

We've always had the option to do that. We will still have a shortfall based on what we pay, the choices those we train make to earn more elsewhere, and the ideology of cutting NHS costs.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Like any single issue party if they achieve the goal they will need to disband/merge or change.

I could definitely see them being changing their name to the independence party.

Probably supporting a free market - entrepreneur type role. Probably with a more loose association between the party membership.

I'd imagine they would push for more PR to get seats and I could see the conservatives supporting it to lock out the labour party forever.

However it's very likely that despite their wishes, once their single issue is resolved one way or the other they will dissolve into nothing.

You touched on it when you mentioned the PR to get more seats. Nigel Farage appeared on the George Galloway Sputnik programme on RT news a couple of months ago. On it Galloway asked Farage what next for you and Ukip if you win the referendum and we leave the EU? Farage said for a start all Ukip MEP's will be out of a job.

But then going forward Ukip would re brand itself as a party fighting to make Britain more democratic. For example to maybe campaign to change first past the post voting system in elections to a Proportional representation system. Also campaign to get much needed reform in the House of Lords.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"We could just spend money and train our own citizens to keep the NHS a float !

Just a thought

Yeah, but you need to put 'EIEIO' at the end of it.

(I thought we did, but they all left to go into private medicine where there is more money, because we don't link their training cost to future minimum service requirements)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I meant train more Docters , Nurses and Yes Pay them more !

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

(I thought we did, but they all left to go into private medicine where there is more money, because we don't link their training cost to future minimum service requirements)

Though of course the training is spent on ward working (yes I know there's still cost but still), plus don't forget if you leave pension arraignments aren't favourable

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Need to ask a question though, As I have never bothered voting or participating in politics I wanted to ask this..

say if for e.g. Brexit happens and the country is out off the EU will that mean it will be a bigger chance for UKIP to come in to power because with the Exit might come a big chance for them to gain more voters/growth if they make good on their promises or become appealing enough to most off the british public??

just a general query..

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Turkeys voting for... etc

despite much talk about how well they would do last year, the seats didn't materialise ..

if we were in Brexit then a lot of people may well look at them and think 'what their point'..

another imponderable.. "

Seats didn't materialise at the general election because it looks like the Tories had to cheat their way to victory. I'm sure you don't need telling that there are ongoing police investigations into spending limits in various MP seats all over the country which could lead to criminal prosecutions. The key one for Ukip being the Thanet seat where Nigel Farage was narrowly beaten by a Tory. I think it will be interesting to see what the outcome of the police investigations will be?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Need to ask a question though, As I have never bothered voting or participating in politics I wanted to ask this..

just a general query.."

Probably not. Those who voted UKIP just on this point will return to voting Tory or Labour.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Oh and if the EU crumbles on our exit the finger will be pointed at the Germans, French, {insert European country here}. It's those pesky foreigners that muck it up for us every time I tell you!

Good call.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They will continue to drive the country into the ground with bigoted arrogance and blame Johnny Foreigner for doing so at the same time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Smoke and mirrors, just seems like a massive distraction from a agenda.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"They will continue to drive the country into the ground with bigoted arrogance and blame Johnny Foreigner for doing so at the same time."

Leb.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't imagine how unhappy this country will be should it be governed by a party like UKIP. It seems like the whingiest, never satisfied, always angry and bitter group of people I'd never want to be part of. I'd be so ashamed to be British in that situation.

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones, however it's hopefully a reactive passing wave as opposed to true desires. Didn't last too long in the 20th century, even if the effects were devastating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not be English

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Turkeys voting for... etc

despite much talk about how well they would do last year, the seats didn't materialise ..

if we were in Brexit then a lot of people may well look at them and think 'what their point'..

another imponderable..

in a no referendum yet world and if any investigation concluded quickly and if any person where found guilty and if a case could be made to re run any seat where such stuff happened then yes maybe in those places some may vote against the party who held the seat..

but in a post Brexit scenario however UKiP rebrand themselves i think most people will still see them as the party that was anti EU once and now are something else and their popularity will diminish..

or even given it isn't going to be the post Brexit nirvana with no immigrants at all, maybe even higher numbers of them then some 'old UKIP' supporters may be less than affable to whichever cause they may be extolling..

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Why not be English

It's really not possible for everyone to be English, even if they want to be.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Should the question be, What happens to UKIP if we vote to remain?

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Probably not. Those who voted UKIP just on this point will return to voting Tory or Labour.

I see, I don't necessarily think they would return to voting tory or labour though tbh since one party thanks to blair screwed the country by sending them into two wars one off which they didn't need to go to (Iraq which had no WMD and the country is now in a giant turmoil) and the Second (Afghanistan which has Never Been conquered in it's history) and cost them dearly in lives, expenses and lead to a big recession wise..

the other being david cameron's party has Screwed the NHS big time to the point where it is in a state off unrest and in a strangle hold as are all the other emergency services in terms off cuts and are expected to deliver the same results as they normally would but simply don't have the same resources..

not to mention Tax/VAT has risen since the Tories came into power and also the Teachers are suffering dearly in the education system as well...

that's just my case for what Most UKIP voters are probably thinking and would want to remain with their party instead off switch over as they see Brexit as a positive in reclaiming their own country and laws/finances and order in general if you catch my drift.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Probably not. Those who voted UKIP just on this point will return to voting Tory or Labour.

not to mention Tax/VAT has risen since the Tories came into power and also the Teachers are suffering dearly in the education system as well...

But UKIP don't really have any policies for running the country. Protest votes are just that. They are rarely used in a way that permanently changes the position.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UKIP will probably displace , job done !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Meant job done !

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

But UKIP don't really have any policies for running the country. Protest votes are just that. They are rarely used in a way that permanently changes the position.

I suppose so Lickety, I myself have never bothered to vote for anyone in all the time I have been eligible to vote but I do like to keep up to date with the affairs to keep an eye on it..

If you ask me personally the point you raised about them having no real policies to running the country could be their achilles heel then which would prevent them from gaining any real power I suppose..

Unless they adapted or evolved and came up with something which would appeal or correspond with what most of you're average everyday people would want to happen for the country policy wise they could grow then..

until then I suppose their at a crucible/cross road..

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

But UKIP don't really have any policies for running the country. Protest votes are just that. They are rarely used in a way that permanently changes the position.

I suppose so Lickety, I myself have never bothered to vote for anyone in all the time I have been eligible to vote but I do like to keep up to date with the affairs to keep an eye on it..

until then I suppose their at a crucible/cross road.."

What would it take to get you to vote?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It will be a dark day for civilisation if UKIP succeed at anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It will be a dark day for civilisation if UKIP succeed at anything."

I think that Meet The UKIPpers documentary was highly successful. I liked it.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Hope it dies and its representatives disappear in to oblivion.

One trick ponies, narrow minds, chancers who've bled millions of tax payers money. The worst side of the UK and have damaged us, without a care.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Should the question be, What happens to UKIP if we vote to remain?

I think it will lead to more support for UKIP if the country votes Remain. The SNP lost the Scottish referendum and they have seen huge surge in support and great success in elections since they lost the Scots referendum.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

Independent politicians, they will just carry on in post with a different label.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

I don't think ukip and the snp are really comparable

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

What would it take to get you to vote?

I more or less made a Promise to myself to never participate in voting or politics off any kind lickety..

I know I know at 23 soon to be 24 in july I should look at my options and use the privilege to vote but tbh growing up the more I looked into the more I realised that despite the parties being right wing, left wing, centre or whatever else..

they may all sing different songs or tunes and some are worser than the others but at the end off the day they will all screw you over one way or the other and they all toe the line and don't really always follow through with their promises once in power..

my decisions not to really participate does not sit well with my family particularly all 3 off my elder sisters are disappointed and try to change my mind year in year out since my family all mainly vote green party...

one off my sisters even said to me that she does not ask much off me but that if I did not participate in the EU referendum vote she would not talk to me I was like haaaaaaaa no pressurising me will not work on me either..

my parents sometimes lecture me about it here and there once in a while but not as much as my siblings when it comes to voting times....

ultimately if I did vote I'm not sure maybe a centre party?

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

nope... someone can leave a party and remain the representative.... its convension that they should contest a by election, but they don't have to...."

I missed this

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

What would it take to get you to vote?

I more or less made a Promise to myself to never participate in voting or politics off any kind lickety..

my parents sometimes lecture me about it here and there once in a while but not as much as my siblings when it comes to voting times....

ultimately if I did vote I'm not sure maybe a centre party?

By not voting you are just accepting that you are happy to get whatever government others choose for you. I think it's that sort of attitude that means we end up with a two party race and little change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will"

I think you're right, he always says stuff like that like it's a threat. It's no loss to politics, is it. And if he does, he'll clearly be back after a sabbatical. This kinda tantrum hissy fit is typical of a UKIP type person though.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

I thought he stood down as leader after losing in the GE...for all of 5 minutes anyway

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones

Not just extreme right wing parties, but extreme left wing parties too (the ruling party in Greece for example). It's the corrupt, undemocratic and failing policies and practices of the EU that is driving it. It's a shame you can't see it.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will"

He also 'resigned' after the General Election because he said he would quit politics then too.

For a man who claims all the problems are down to career politicians he seems to forget he has spent the best part of the last 20 years trying to become a MP.

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Say for example though lickety I myself and people like me finally got up after all this time and decided to start voting or sharing our opinions realistically what change could it actually make so to speak if there is a large percentage off people like me who do not participate?

And if so I wonder which party would seemingly be the most beneficial or forward in terms off helping the country move forward instead off backwards?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is? "

Farage is like toothache.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

And if so I wonder which party would seemingly be the most beneficial or forward in terms off helping the country move forward instead off backwards? "

If the people who don't vote started to vote who knows how you would reshape things. Voter turn out has been so low that getting a 66% turnout for the last General Election was seen as big news. The 34% who didn't vote is more than the Tories got.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones

No, I can't see the link, can you show me some supporting evidence, please? I could show you some extreme right wing views of UKIP and their supporters though if you'd like. (2 points are 15% saying Muslims are okay, and 85% saying Muslims are dangerous, or 51% saying Britain was negatively affected by diversity, or 37% wanting immigrants to go home - there's lots I can show you).

Is the EU also to blame for historical extreme right wing governments too?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones

Is the EU also to blame for historical extreme right wing governments too? "

Probably. And for all those not in Europe as well.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

In the old days there was a left wing party, a right wing one and a liberal middle of the road type one. Plus the Monster Raving Looney Party.

You picked your vote based on your core beliefs about how a country/society should be run.

Then in the late 90s someone came along and started saying anything to get people to vote for that party. Then the other parties did the same and we ended up with a bunch of wishy washy centre politics that got nothing done.

And then people stopped voting in their masses because there was no point as there was no real choice. So the wishy-washyness carried on unopposed.

And now we have a political system that is based only on PR and career politicians. What needs to happen is for people to get involved in local politics, where changes can be made.

And then let this gather momentum and vote for MPs based on their ability and ideology rather than their press appearance and tweets.

Voting is our way of sending our messages but we need to be involved so the people who step forward to represent us are the right people with morals etc.

Is my view

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

66% that's only 2/3 off the country am I right so that means just one percent higher than 1/3 off the country did not participate if I am correct so it seems?

who knows maybe people are just increasingly becoming jaded with the system and the whole voting/politics game hmmm...

must be frustrating for people like yourself as us lot who do not participate could actually make a difference even if it is a small one?

I heard once that apparently those who do not vote their votes end up going to the majority winning party in the elections? again I doubt it's true but it's just something I heard...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

66% that's only 2/3 off the country am I right so that means just one percent higher than 1/3 off the country did not participate if I am correct so it seems?

who knows maybe people are just increasingly becoming jaded with the system and the whole voting/politics game hmmm...

must be frustrating for people like yourself as us lot who do not participate could actually make a difference even if it is a small one?

I heard once that apparently those who do not vote their votes end up going to the majority winning party in the elections? again I doubt it's true but it's just something I heard..."

2/3 of eligible voters, not the population. The vote will not be allocated if you do not vote, that'd be fraudulent.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave. "

Cos he's done it before. It's a hissy fit as "if I don't get what I want, I won't be happy!" like an infant that needs calming down, only he's an old man.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

66% that's only 2/3 off the country am I right so that means just one percent higher than 1/3 off the country did not participate if I am correct so it seems?

who knows maybe people are just increasingly becoming jaded with the system and the whole voting/politics game hmmm...

must be frustrating for people like yourself as us lot who do not participate could actually make a difference even if it is a small one?

I heard once that apparently those who do not vote their votes end up going to the majority winning party in the elections? again I doubt it's true but it's just something I heard..."

No, only the votes cast (and are unspoiled) get counted. It's first past the post.

Yes, it is frustrating that if people actually voted it might make a difference/tip the balance. It is frustrating hearing people who don't vote moaning about the government when they have the franchise and choose to ignore it.

Politics everything from birth to death, everything in between and, for those with money, the things that happen after your death.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Is the EU also to blame for historical extreme right wing governments too? "

Not at all. The last World War was over extremism within an ideology and that ideology was socialism.

After the War Germany and France set up an agreement to stop them from fighting each other again. Their neighbouring little countries, fed up of being invaded, also joined up.

There's a lot more to this but from that agreement the EU came eventually. So it could be said that extremism created the EU

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

2/3 of eligible voters, not the population. The vote will not be allocated if you do not vote, that'd be fraudulent. "

most definitely a fraudulent crime indeed but that's not to say it has not taken place a few times in the past be it in current or past elections in the U.K. or even around the world...

Imagine if something like that was unfoiled in the U.K. they would probably be at the tip off the iceberg as to how deep it would run corruption wise that is IF and that is a big IF it was happening in certain areas.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"must be frustrating for people like yourself as us lot who do not participate could actually make a difference even if it is a small one?"

This is correct

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"most definitely a fraudulent crime indeed but that's not to say it has not taken place a few times in the past be it in current or past elections in the U.K. or even around the world..."

It doesn't happen. If you don't vote you do not put your voting slip in the box. At the count the votes from the ballot boxes are added to the postal votes that have already arrived. Both are then counted. There are a series of checks and balances that ensure the counting is legitimate.

And yes I have been to quite a few counts, and in different parts of the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is the EU also to blame for historical extreme right wing governments too?

Not at all. The last World War was over extremism within an ideology and that ideology was socialism.

After the War Germany and France set up an agreement to stop them from fighting each other again. Their neighbouring little countries, fed up of being invaded, also joined up.

There's a lot more to this but from that agreement the EU came eventually. So it could be said that extremism created the EU

I was being facetious that the EU is to blame for all ills. People say that NATO is the true reason why Europe is considerably peaceful than the early to mid 20th Century, but the cooperation of countries maintaining membership is arguably the strongest force behind it.

And yes, I know EUFOR isn't as powerful as NATO in terms of size or artillery before anyone else replies, this is not my point.

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

No, only the votes cast (and are unspoiled) get counted. It's first past the post.

Politics everything from birth to death, everything in between and, for those with money, the things that happen after your death.

I suppose some people just don't really have much faith or wish to gamble with their futures depending on who they vote with lickety..

it is true as you said there is a power to make a change yourself instead off sit back and complain about it but in the end it all comes down to what the benefits and repercussions will be and which one will outweigh the other..

worst part is that if you vote for a party which ends up screwing up big time you yourself will be partly to blame as an individual because you voted for them to get into power in the first place...

good part I suppose would be seeing more benefits out weigh the negatives and a more prosperous system/economy and stability amongst society with a new change...

alas one can only really hope for a stability not necessarily a perfect system/party or a flawless one but one which would be more prosperous then the current one in power...

I guess picking the devil you know or lesser evil kind off thing.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave.

Cos he's done it before. It's a hissy fit as "if I don't get what I want, I won't be happy!" like an infant that needs calming down, only he's an old man. "

He will be getting what he wants though if we leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

2/3 of eligible voters, not the population. The vote will not be allocated if you do not vote, that'd be fraudulent.

most definitely a fraudulent crime indeed but that's not to say it has not taken place a few times in the past be it in current or past elections in the U.K. or even around the world...

I don't see why you're worrying about unused votes possibly being used in the future. It's illegal. Just use your vote instead of worrying about it going against your values.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

No, only the votes cast (and are unspoiled) get counted. It's first past the post.

Politics everything from birth to death, everything in between and, for those with money, the things that happen after your death.

I suppose some people just don't really have much faith or wish to gamble with their futures depending on who they vote with lickety..

worst part is that if you vote for a party which ends up screwing up big time you yourself will be partly to blame as an individual because you voted for them to get into power in the first place...

good part I suppose would be seeing more benefits out weigh the negatives and a more prosperous system/economy and stability amongst society with a new change...

alas one can only really hope for a stability not necessarily a perfect system/party or a flawless one but one which would be more prosperous then the current one in power...

I guess picking the devil you know or lesser evil kind off thing."

Doing nothing changes nothing.

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

I don't see why you're worrying about unused votes possibly being used in the future. It's illegal. Just use your vote instead of worrying about it going against your values. "

I'm just brain storming that's all as I have an active imagination or go deep into thought on subjects like this I suppose...

hmmmm I suppose the future will show how I feel or change on the matter I suppose....won't make any promises though but will try to keep an open mind.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I suppose some people just don't really have much faith or wish to gamble with their futures depending on who they vote with lickety.."

But surely the ultimate gamble is to not vote and take what comes.

And again I say, get involved with local politics first because that is where 'people power' can make a difference.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I'm just brain storming that's all as I have an active imagination or go deep into thought on subjects like this I suppose..."

I explained that it can't happen

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Doing nothing changes nothing.

....perhaps but one can often wonder and keep an open mind for the future years and perhaps make a turn? nothing is set in stone but for now I'm comfortable.

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

I explained that it can't happen

I didn't disagree with you or argue with you I kept quiet and accepted the answer so no need to roll you're eyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave.

Cos he's done it before. It's a hissy fit as "if I don't get what I want, I won't be happy!" like an infant that needs calming down, only he's an old man.

He will be getting what he wants though if we leave.

Sorry, I'm going by the article not by your one line of it. It seems to me like saying "I'll leave when the Tories are destroyed!" or any of the other conditions are met is a pissy thing to say.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Perhaps we should offer to verify people when they turn up to vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why you're worrying about unused votes possibly being used in the future. It's illegal. Just use your vote instead of worrying about it going against your values.

I'm just brain storming that's all as I have an active imagination or go deep into thought on subjects like this I suppose...

hmmmm I suppose the future will show how I feel or change on the matter I suppose....won't make any promises though but will try to keep an open mind."

How can you have thoughts on something you're not even involved in? You actively choose to not vote, then worry about corruption when you're doing absolutely nothing.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I explained that it can't happen

I didn't disagree with you or argue with you I kept quiet and accepted the answer so no need to roll you're eyes."

I thought you'd ignored it and were still considering a possibility.

I may roll my eyes whenever I wish

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"How can you have thoughts on something you're not even involved in? You actively choose to not vote, then worry about corruption when you're doing absolutely nothing. "

I agree

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

How can you have thoughts on something you're not even involved in? You actively choose to not vote, then worry about corruption when you're doing absolutely nothing. "

...it was just a passing thought and an idea that is all nothing more and nothing less I just wanted to participate in for a change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can you have thoughts on something you're not even involved in? You actively choose to not vote, then worry about corruption when you're doing absolutely nothing.

...it was just a passing thought and an idea that is all nothing more and nothing less I just wanted to participate in for a change."

It's a huge waste of your energy. You should focus on what difference you can make, instead of something that isn't happening but may do but probably won't.

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By *oftnSexyCouple
over a year ago

Nuneaton

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones

Thankfully a voice of reason

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By *sianmale89Man
over a year ago

Stockport

It's a huge waste of your energy. You should focus on what difference you can make, instead of something that isn't happening but may do but probably won't. "

perhaps so but I'm a thinker, might not always be the most practical thing or maybe seen as a waste off time to be but that is what I am I tend to look into different scenarios and outcomes one way or the other in many things..

anyway I'm off to sleep as I have to be up at 6:00am, I bid you all fair the well and good luck in you're voting election stuff in the future and the rest off this thread.

good night and stay safe.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave.

Cos he's done it before. It's a hissy fit as "if I don't get what I want, I won't be happy!" like an infant that needs calming down, only he's an old man.

He will be getting what he wants though if we leave.

Sorry, I'm going by the article not by your one line of it. It seems to me like saying "I'll leave when the Tories are destroyed!" or any of the other conditions are met is a pissy thing to say. "

The article says Farage will quit politics if we leave the EU. I imagine Farage will be very happy if we leave so once again I can't for the life of me see how or why he would be throwing a tantrum hissy fit if we leave and he gets what he wants. More like he will retire very happy having achieved his goal of getting Britain out of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Farage says he will quit politics if the UK leaves the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html. But I doubt the bloody liar will

The article says he will quit politics if we leave the EU. I honestly can't see how you interpret that as throwing a tantrum hissy fit????

More like a celebration on achieving what he has worked towards for the last 20 years if we leave.

Cos he's done it before. It's a hissy fit as "if I don't get what I want, I won't be happy!" like an infant that needs calming down, only he's an old man.

He will be getting what he wants though if we leave.

Sorry, I'm going by the article not by your one line of it. It seems to me like saying "I'll leave when the Tories are destroyed!" or any of the other conditions are met is a pissy thing to say.

I'm not sure you've read the article you're quoting as you've missed a few other caveats added to that statement. Read more than the headline, you'll see.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's been really enjoyable over the past few months to read UKIP supporters telling us how noble it would be of Farage and his pals to put themselves out of a job by achieving Brexit.

Farage and the former UKIP MEPs will get a pension from the EU from the age of 63 equal to 3.5% of the salary for each full year as an MEP (up to 70%) met from the European Union budget plus a severance payment of two years pay (over £157000).

With that and the million pounds plus he's been paid so far by the EU to do fuck all that's useful, he'll be in the pub getting pissed and crying quite a few crocodile tears for the low paid workers who lose their jobs in his very own recession.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I forgot to add

EIEIO

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

It is worrying that extreme right wing parties are gaining momentum over the centrist ones

That is not really true though is it? It is really about a scapegoat reaction to nearly ten years of austerity and a squeezing of the middle classes. People have lost faith in politics and the EU is an easy scapegoat. Exactly the same thing has happened in the United States and this has given rise to an extreme right wing Republican and a (so called) Socialist who is further left than any US Politician has dared to be before. Both are anti establishment and both are supported by people who feel disillusioned.

For the UK, the EU is a scapegoat and although I do believe that the country will vote to leave, when it comes it happening I don't think we will. By that time (two or three years down the road) the economy will be in chaos and all the countries who were allegedly lining up to make quick trade deals with the 5th largest economy in the world will have evaporated on a realisation about something we have, in truth, always known. You just can't only get your own way and unless you are dealing with a smaller population the likelihood is that the larger partner will beat you up a bit first as they have all the cards. Check out the Swiss/China trade deal as an example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dominic Cummings who is the campaign director of vote leave blogged a year ago about the complexity of the negotiations - the same negotiations as they tell us are going to be wrapped up in no time at all. He said:

A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions. An interesting attempt at such a plan is FLEXCIT based on using the EEA as a transition phase – remaining in the Single Market and retaining a (modified) version of free movement – while a better deal, inevitably taking years, is negotiated. This is an attempt to take the Single Market out of the referendum debate. I will discuss the merits of this idea another time when I’ve studied it more.

B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan.

They can't produce a plan because it's too difficult - they have no idea at all how Brexit will work other than ideological crap.

This is the same Doiminic Cummings who the treasury select committe said:

In their treatment of this Committee, neither Mr Elliott nor Mr Cummings, as individuals, have fulfilled Vote Leave’s commitment, made in their successful application to the Electoral Commission, to “create a valuable legacy for the UK’s democratic process”. Their conduct has been appalling. Mr Elliott’s and Mr Cummings’s expressed view that powers should be restored to Parliament sits ill with that conduct.

So much for Brexit and sovereignty, hey?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And of course

EIEIO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bit I'm going to like is when it all goes tits up and the best bit is.... The referendum in or out won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Your all going to pay the piper one way or another.... Whow wait a minute doorsy, there's got to be a good guy and a bad guy, that's how it works, yeahhh only if your a fucking idiot.

Some of you cunts are going to get poorer, big fucking deal, some of you cunts are going to have to wait in a queue to go on holiday, big fucking deal, some of you cunts are just gonna have to work harder, big fucking deal.

Join the big fucking queue with the rest of the world.... Actually what I meant to say was good luck, let the best chap win...whatoh

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I forgot to add

EIEIO"

Old Man4you had a failing project, EUEUEU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I forgot to add

EIEIO

Old Man4you had a failing project, EUEUEU. "

Even Irony Escapes Idiots On-line

where, out of politeness, I hasten to add that the term idiots is generic and of course not aimed at you.

EIEIO

from man4eu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The bit I'm going to like is when it all goes tits up and the best bit is.... The referendum in or out won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Your all going to pay the piper one way or another.... Whow wait a minute doorsy, there's got to be a good guy and a bad guy, that's how it works, yeahhh only if your a fucking idiot.

Join the big fucking queue with the rest of the world.... Actually what I meant to say was good luck, let the best chap win...whatoh

I expect that you're grumpier than usual because you've run out of wine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/06/16 02:03:43]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

"This approach might allow NO to avoid its biggest problem – the idea that a NO vote is a vote to leave in one jump and is therefore a leap in the dark. It would allow NO to portray YES as the truly risky option. This approach would enable NO to build a coalition between a) those who think we should just leave (about a third) and b) those who dislike the EU but are worried about leaving (about a third) and who may be persuaded that ‘Cameron’s deal is bad and we should try to get a better one but the only way to force this is to vote NO’."

Basically the leave campaign wants to herd us like sheep into our pens and has been planning this manipulation for over a year and they're following the script precisely - they've known exactly which segment of the population to scaremonger with.

EIEIO

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

EIEIO"

...and you think Cameron's project fear has not tried to herd people like sheep into their pens where the Remain campaign wants them to go?????

Pull the udder one,

EUEUEU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The way people talk about this referendum with odd phrases and the "us" and "them" attitude is so weird. It's like people have been indoctrinated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

EIEIO

...and you think Cameron's project fear has not tried to herd people like sheep into their pens where the Remain campaign wants them to go?????

Pull the udder one,

EUEUEU"

I expect you know that a year ago Cummings was encouraging special political advisers (spads) to record information secretly (without using official hardware) so that it could be used against the prime minister after his negotiations with the EU. He expected the spads to resign and reveal all.

Normally I laugh at conspiracy theorists, but Cummings own blog shows that he was planning to undermine the legitimate government (as much as I may hate it) at least a year ago.

That just makes me laugh at your whinges about fair play to do with the £9 million pound leaflet. It was worth every penny for the heartburn it gave ukippers.

The tale of how they use Boris is interesting too - pretty much groomed him into their service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

EIEIO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way people talk about this referendum with odd phrases and the "us" and "them" attitude is so weird. It's like people have been indoctrinated. "

By 'us' I meant the people of this country ... that includes 'them'

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

EIEIO

...and you think Cameron's project fear has not tried to herd people like sheep into their pens where the Remain campaign wants them to go?????

Pull the udder one,

EUEUEU

Normally I laugh at conspiracy theorists, but Cummings own blog shows that he was planning to undermine the legitimate government (as much as I may hate it) at least a year ago.

That just makes me laugh at your whinges about fair play to do with the £9 million pound leaflet. It was worth every penny for the heartburn it gave ukippers.

The tale of how they use Boris is interesting too - pretty much groomed him into their service."

This really does take the biscuit. You are now going down the route of conspiracy theories when George Osborne standing on a platform alongside Edd Balls and Vince Cable for the Remain campaign just a few weeks ago was making fun of conspiracy theories. Keep clutching at straws your desperation is becoming clearer with each passing day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

EIEIO

...and you think Cameron's project fear has not tried to herd people like sheep into their pens where the Remain campaign wants them to go?????

Pull the udder one,

EUEUEU

Normally I laugh at conspiracy theorists, but Cummings own blog shows that he was planning to undermine the legitimate government (as much as I may hate it) at least a year ago.

That just makes me laugh at your whinges about fair play to do with the £9 million pound leaflet. It was worth every penny for the heartburn it gave ukippers.

The tale of how they use Boris is interesting too - pretty much groomed him into their service.

How come opposing opinions are pathetic and desperate? Seems weird to just dismiss everything as those things, instead of substantiated replies.

Unless you can't provide substantiation, then it makes sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cummings blog also sets out the key elements of the current UKIP, sorry Brexit, campaign including all the old bullshit we've been hearing about over and over and over again about:

the five presidents report

the EU army

immigration

persuading people to vote no because we can always have a second referendum and change our minds.

He's quite clear about conning the public:

EIEIO

...and you think Cameron's project fear has not tried to herd people like sheep into their pens where the Remain campaign wants them to go?????

Pull the udder one,

EUEUEU

Normally I laugh at conspiracy theorists, but Cummings own blog shows that he was planning to undermine the legitimate government (as much as I may hate it) at least a year ago.

That just makes me laugh at your whinges about fair play to do with the £9 million pound leaflet. It was worth every penny for the heartburn it gave ukippers.

The tale of how they use Boris is interesting too - pretty much groomed him into their service.

You can read Cummings blog yourself. Search on the internet for dominiccummings.wordpress.com and add the following to the URL/2015/06/ then on the page you find search for "From now, start collecting stats on a daily basis of the proportion of EU stuff in the box" and you'll see where he encourages special political advisers to undermine Cameron. If you're not too lazy to look at it, you can decide whether or not they planned it ahead.

The whole set of articles tells almost exactly how to run the campaign - so it's had all the things that you've been pushing. Right now they're working on the 20% or so of voters who are unsure and they want you to push immigration, the social charter and sovereignty to appeal to those voters.

You can pretty much read the campaign plan on Cummings blog.

Do enjoy being manipulated - he knows exactly how you think, how to use it and he's been doing it very successfully.

As the treasury select committee said, Cummings attitude to sovereignty of parliament is appalling.

Read it an weep - if you dare.

EIEIO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This version with the wordpress link removed in case admin gets stroppy

Normally I laugh at conspiracy theorists, but Cummings own blog shows that he was planning to undermine the legitimate government (as much as I may hate it) at least a year ago.

That just makes me laugh at your whinges about fair play to do with the £9 million pound leaflet. It was worth every penny for the heartburn it gave ukippers.

The tale of how they use Boris is interesting too - pretty much groomed him into their service.

You can read Cummings blog yourself. Search on the internet for dominiccummings on wordpress and add the following to the URL/2015/06/ then on the page you find search for "From now, start collecting stats on a daily basis of the proportion of EU stuff in the box" and you'll see where he encourages special political advisers to undermine Cameron.

If you're not too lazy to look at it, you can decide whether or not they planned it ahead.

The whole set of articles on the blog tells almost exactly how to run the campaign - so it's had all the things that you've been pushing.

Right now they're working on the 20% or so of voters who are unsure and they want you to push immigration, the social charter and sovereignty to appeal to those voters.

You can pretty much read the campaign plan on Cummings blog.

Do enjoy being manipulated - he knows exactly how you think, how to use it and he's been doing it very successfully.

As the treasury select committee said, Cummings attitude to sovereignty of parliament is appalling.

Read it and weep - if you dare.

EIEIO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every time someone posts something I don't agree with but can't dismiss, it makes the desperation of the opposing campaign even clearer.

^ Would make such a great Meme. Ideas on an accompanying image?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think Farage would probably do well with 'straight guys' if he set up a single male profile on Fab considering the amount of guys here that want to suck his cock without using their brains.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

No, only the votes cast (and are unspoiled) get counted. It's first past the post.

Politics everything from birth to death, everything in between and, for those with money, the things that happen after your death.

I suppose some people just don't really have much faith or wish to gamble with their futures depending on who they vote with lickety..

worst part is that if you vote for a party which ends up screwing up big time you yourself will be partly to blame as an individual because you voted for them to get into power in the first place...

good part I suppose would be seeing more benefits out weigh the negatives and a more prosperous system/economy and stability amongst society with a new change...

alas one can only really hope for a stability not necessarily a perfect system/party or a flawless one but one which would be more prosperous then the current one in power...

I guess picking the devil you know or lesser evil kind off thing."
.

You're gambling when you don't vote, with a decreased likelihood that the party representative you'd prefer will get elected.

I find it hard to understand why people don't spend a few hours every five years to become informed and to vote. People have given their lives for the right to vote.

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By *eccymanMan
over a year ago

Gateshead

UKIP were always designed to be a short term parliamentary force. We're already an independent country and if we vote to leave the EU in less than two weeks time then UKIP ceases to have a purpose. Nobody could have predicted the Tories getting a majority in 2015 but without UKIP taking 4m votes I think it would have been a foregone conclusion so if we skip ahead to 2020 post-Brexit and no UKIP with Corbyn as Labour leader and Johnson as sitting PM ... the Tories are heading for a landslide of biblical proportions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The bit I'm going to like is when it all goes tits up and the best bit is.... The referendum in or out won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Your all going to pay the piper one way or another.... Whow wait a minute doorsy, there's got to be a good guy and a bad guy, that's how it works, yeahhh only if your a fucking idiot.

Join the big fucking queue with the rest of the world.... Actually what I meant to say was good luck, let the best chap win...whatoh

I expect that you're grumpier than usual because you've run out of wine. "
.

Run out of wine!! Never, I buy in bulk.

Were all just a bunch of cunts bumbling through life bouncing from one thing to another like it means something, while slowly striping away anything of beauty..... Were like a pack of gollums fighting over the "precious"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It will be a dark day for civilisation if UKIP succeed at anything."

what, like getting a referendum?

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"It will be a dark day for civilisation if UKIP succeed at anything.

what, like getting a referendum?"
yep it was a dark day for the UK when a referendum was decided ..look how decisive it is ..and the final outcome could be even more decisive in a few years once people know what they have voted for ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It will be a dark day for civilisation if UKIP succeed at anything.

what, like getting a referendum?yep it was a dark day for the UK when a referendum was decided ..look how decisive it is ..and the final outcome could be even more decisive in a few years once people know what they have voted for ...."

down with democracy eh

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

well done nigel for kicking the political system up the arse.3rd largest party by next election...with corben in charge could do even better.anything but the posh tory boy...im voting out just on migrants alone.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"well done nigel for kicking the political system up the arse.3rd largest party by next election...with corben in charge could do even better.anything but the posh tory boy...im voting out just on migrants alone."

You are completely dreaming if you think an out vote will stop immigration.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ukip will get stronger and stronger and the greens too reason being we are no longer a two party nation I think ukip have woken the quiet people who are fed up with not being listened to ..labour will never win for as long as the hippie is in charge

and no I don't vote ukip

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By *MaleMan
over a year ago

Pensions raided, austerity measures, bankers & economists taking the piss, governments who've bulls#itted us into phoney wars, 'uncontrolled' gaping holes in borders, middle east in chaos (not from a ukip govt), scaremongering about a WW3 if we leave the EU to name a few.

However some people's biggest worry is UKIP lmfao

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't tend to be one of those people that demonizes politicans..

Except for Osborne he is the fucking devil incarnate "

That is far too polite a description of him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Like any single issue party if they achieve the goal they will need to disband/merge or change.

I could definitely see them being changing their name to the independence party.

Probably supporting a free market - entrepreneur type role. Probably with a more loose association between the party membership.

I'd imagine they would push for more PR to get seats and I could see the conservatives supporting it to lock out the labour party forever.

However it's very likely that despite their wishes, once their single issue is resolved one way or the other they will dissolve into nothing.

Yep, I think if they succeed with Brexit, or not, their next agenda will be getting PR in so they can materialise their support. Though I think if we leave the EU then a lot of the support will dissolve. eg a lot of their support comes from people wanting out so supported them in the MEP elections, but in a general election would usually vote either Tory or Labour.

I don't think they could go the free market route - it just wouldn't get a lot of support in this country. Farage's comments about going to a insurance based NHS even play on some people I know who think they would vote to Leave the EU, but comments and ideas like that on the leave side dissuade them.

I don't think PR would actually lock out labour for good, arguably it would lock anyone out. As much as I dislike UKIP I feel as though they are right to want PR on a democratic basis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You realise upon leaving a lot of Tory Brexiters are pro giving businesses the right to legally 'import' labour from other nations, which actually means they'd have access to even cheaper labour. Other ideas have been to bring people over from low economic Commonwealth states.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pensions raided, austerity measures, bankers & economists taking the piss, governments who've bulls#itted us into phoney wars, 'uncontrolled' gaping holes in borders, middle east in chaos (not from a ukip govt), scaremongering about a WW3 if we leave the EU to name a few.

However some people's biggest worry is UKIP lmfao "

Probably because UKIP senior politicians and party members seem to want Britain to have a similar economic, welfare, workers rights system and health care system to America. Their entitled to their opinion but most people wouldn't like it.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Every time someone posts something I don't agree with but can't dismiss, it makes the desperation of the opposing campaign even clearer.

^ Would make such a great Meme. Ideas on an accompanying image?"

I see a PushMePullYou.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

You are completely dreaming if you think an out vote will stop immigration. "

Some seem to seriously believe that a leave win will mean the borders will close the next day. It beggars belief.

As does the 'official referendum communication' from Vote Leave that came through my door this morning. The word FACT is used so often it read like a post on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What I don't quite understand is what happens to UKIP if they win?

Their finances are already ropey, and without the cash from the EU Parliament, even worse.

Having secured their raison d'etre, do they bow out for good?

Do they rebrand as a sort of acceptable face of the BNP?

Or will Farage secretly be voting 'remain' on June the whatever it is? "

What do you guys think. I'm always on the lookout for racism but I can't quite attach it to these guys. That being said I haven't looked into them deeply enough to form a valid opinion - hence me asking you guys who's opinion I tend to trust

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, only the votes cast (and are unspoiled) get counted. It's first past the post.

Politics everything from birth to death, everything in between and, for those with money, the things that happen after your death.

I suppose some people just don't really have much faith or wish to gamble with their futures depending on who they vote with lickety..

worst part is that if you vote for a party which ends up screwing up big time you yourself will be partly to blame as an individual because you voted for them to get into power in the first place...

good part I suppose would be seeing more benefits out weigh the negatives and a more prosperous system/economy and stability amongst society with a new change...

alas one can only really hope for a stability not necessarily a perfect system/party or a flawless one but one which would be more prosperous then the current one in power...

I guess picking the devil you know or lesser evil kind off thing..

You're gambling when you don't vote, with a decreased likelihood that the party representative you'd prefer will get elected.

I find it hard to understand why people don't spend a few hours every five years to become informed and to vote. People have given their lives for the right to vote. "

Exactly, though I know the young voter turn out is famously low, the people I know who have been voting 18+ of age are incredibly well informed and weigh up party policy pro and cons, rather than just reading an article from the Daily mail or Guardian and going, 'well that is/isn't what I like'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This post exemplifies the majority of the Leave campaign.

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By *MaleMan
over a year ago

However some people's biggest worry is UKIP lmfao

As usual spout a load of sensationalist crap thats not the case or part of manifesto. Propaganda from the EU funded left.

On economics ref southern europe thats econimically fcuked and the debt on debt the pro EU greek elite (not common citizens) have generated. On workers rights check France, riots, strikes as the EC have effectively told the govt to push through labour reforms to remove/reduce workers rights. For health care they want to administer a little wiser to remove health tourists. On immigration they want to control the country's front door no different to how you might control your own front door, You know that idea that your in charge of who you let through that door.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are completely dreaming if you think an out vote will stop immigration.

Some seem to seriously believe that a leave win will mean the borders will close the next day. It beggars belief.

As does the 'official referendum communication' from Vote Leave that came through my door this morning. The word FACT is used so often it read like a post on here.

Urgh I know, I believe last weekend when I was going through Manchester from Liverpool on the coach I saw a huge Vote Leave poster sign, probably a few stories high. Basically saying "Turkey (population 'x') is joining the EU." Or something along those lines. I wouldn't mind if they said might be joining, as you know, it might in 2020 by the best estimates. But to say it is, in the run up to a referendum is both a misrepresentation of information, a near blatant lie, and also scaremongering.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

Actually that's not correct. An MP or any elected representatives holds their seat regardless of their political allegiances. There is no legal requirement for them to resign their seat if they choose to switch their allegiance.

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

This post exemplifies the majority of the Leave campaign. "
cant be third largest party by next election if we leave the EU as mr farage said publicly he would disband UKIP if the UK left the EU ..of are you saying he is the biggest liar on the planet at the moment and wont disband UKIP ...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This post exemplifies the majority of the Leave campaign. cant be third largest party by next election if we leave the EU as mr farage said publicly he would disband UKIP if the UK left the EU ..of are you saying he is the biggest liar on the planet at the moment and wont disband UKIP ...? "

Noo, I'm saying the last bit on wanting to leave is completely bizarre. I mean, no migrants? Poor logic.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"see how it goes, cant see us leaving the EU some how even though almost everyone i know personally, is voting out but then the same people also voted For UKIP in the last elections.

who better to lead us out than farage

the best we can hope is a vote out & Cameron Resigns. (i guess that would leave Boris the chance to run for leader?) "

That's the real nightmare scenario.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However some people's biggest worry is UKIP lmfao

As usual spout a load of sensationalist crap thats not the case or part of manifesto. Propaganda from the EU funded left.

Lets keep it to what he would do in the British parliamentary system.

In 2012 be said this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgKFcN6mZCE so either the current manifesto is a lie? Clever wording? Or has he had a drastic change of heart? like some issues on last years Tory manifesto given that we can't hold political parties here to account if they decide to do or not do something - not instantly anyway.

Also, health care tourism? Is there an official NHS report on this? Or are there just some cases which UKIP has picked up on? For the record I work with a lot of NHS staff, as does my mother, all of us agree that everyone has a right to life, therefore free healthcare. If they come here to be treated because it's cheaper to travel around the world and wait here rather than in their own nation, fair enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suppose he may be out of a job after the vote then.

2 for 1 if camerons gone aswell

Its not all bad news

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"see how it goes, cant see us leaving the EU some how even though almost everyone i know personally, is voting out but then the same people also voted For UKIP in the last elections.

who better to lead us out than farage

the best we can hope is a vote out & Cameron Resigns. (i guess that would leave Boris the chance to run for leader?)

That's the real nightmare scenario.

Or Gove *shudders*

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Not sure about the MPs but the local UKIP politicians I have met intend to carry on representing their electorate as Independents.

Independent what? They will force a by-election if they leave the party.

nope... someone can leave a party and remain the representative.... its convension that they should contest a by election, but they don't have to...."

Not really even that much. Churchill himself flipped twice and never triggered a by-election. When the SDP formed in the mid 80's I don't think any triggered by-elections. In local government councillors flip quite often and most don't trigger by-elections.

You have to remember when you cast your vote, in a normal election, you are legally voting for a person to represent you, not the party they may stand for.

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By *MaleMan
over a year ago

You are completely dreaming if you think an out vote will stop immigration.

Some seem to seriously believe that a leave win will mean the borders will close the next day. It beggars belief.

As does the 'official referendum communication' from Vote Leave that came through my door this morning. The word FACT is used so often it read like a post on here.

Claims of leaving as it will create world war 3 are equally scaremongering. Dont be so selective on your selection of what/who is scaremongering and who isn't.

Don't be thinking it's only some UK citizens that are EU sceptical either. From working across Europe for years it's obvious citizens of other countries are slowly becoming aware and sceptical too.

If they had only admitted from day one the whole plane was to become an expansionist EU republic I doubt the EU project would have got so far.

On the ww3 angle who wandered west and almost clashed horns with Russia. Who was courting with ex communist states whilst playing daft to what might happen. The EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If they are elected they will do exactly like the others, bending over to whoever has money.

They are. It getting elected....nobody is!

It is a referendum...not an election. They probably will go....mission accomplished!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"If we do vote to leave then the earliest will be 2020, but it will probably take longer.

By then we will know more accurately how Brexit will affect us. What are the chances the 2020 general election becomes a second de facto referendum.

With only Ukip offering 'out' as an actual option?

But by then the die is cast. The 'club' will be pissed off and 'out' is not getting any deals done. Hell hath no fury like an EU scorned.

Perhaps for Greece, but for a net contributor? Methinks 'prodigal son' is more likely

(but without our rebate)

We'd have to have the Euro and all opt-outs would be lost. They veto will allow nothing less for the prodigal than returning with tail between legs AND cap in hand.

I think that's fantasy land. If we vote leave we will leave, there will be no emergency route back in. The best we could hope for (and in my opinion the most likely outcome to) would be a deal something like Norway or Switzerland but probably not quite so good.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Hopefully they will change to a non racist ENP , English National Party !

With Priti Patel as leader

"English Independence Every Immigrant Out"

Or EIEIO

At least they'd have a catchy song

What ? With Priti Patel as leader ?

You do realise she is Asian don't you ?

I never let such petty issues such as 'facts' get in the way of a witty post.

Now hush, I'm writing the verses, I sense there's money to be made here...

(all I have so far is

"Old man Farage had a plan, EIEIO"

)

And that plan was full of lies EIEIO.

With a big lie here and a small lie there

Old man Farage was a lie EIEI-O

(I want half the writing credits)

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By *MaleMan
over a year ago

However some people's biggest worry is UKIP lmfao

As usual spout a load of sensationalist crap thats not the case or part of manifesto. Propaganda from the EU funded left.

Lets keep it to what he would do in the British parliamentary system.

It's your prerogative to feel the latter. However go check what the NHS was for and the modern day economics of it. If everyone and their dog (non citizens) that aint paid into to from wherever is free to use it then the economics will be even worse than they are now. That will please the capitalists as it will add to the case for privatisation then it will end up like an pure insurance scheme that effectively ignores unfortunate citizens never mind those from overseas.

When I go out at night I dont expect strangers in drinks kittys, I've not paid into, to cover my arse. For sure if that kitty was run as a free for all it would soon run dry.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Why not be English

I am, thanks very much. Are you?

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

if getting out stops one smelling scrounging person coming here ...then im still voting out .....come on boris/nigel....boris for pm .....

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"UKIP were always designed to be a short term parliamentary force. We're already an independent country and if we vote to leave the EU in less than two weeks time then UKIP ceases to have a purpose. Nobody could have predicted the Tories getting a majority in 2015 but without UKIP taking 4m votes I think it would have been a foregone conclusion so if we skip ahead to 2020 post-Brexit and no UKIP with Corbyn as Labour leader and Johnson as sitting PM ... the Tories are heading for a landslide of biblical proportions."

Corbyn as Labour leader is a powerful reason not to vote labour but BoJo as Tory leader is, in my opinion, almost as good a reason not to vote Conservative. I'd probably never vote Labour anyhow but I also would not vote Conservative either if BoJo was leader. And that's not a recent conversation against BoJo. I've never thought BoJo would make a good leader.

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

""I forgot to add

EIEIO

Old Man4you had a failing project, EUEUEU. "

Even Irony Escapes Idiots On-line

where, out of politeness, I hasten to add that the term idiots is generic and of course not aimed at you.

EIEIO

from man4eu"

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By *erbyDalesCpl OP Couple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"What do you guys think. I'm always on the lookout for racism but I can't quite attach it to these guys. That being said I haven't looked into them deeply enough to form a valid opinion - hence me asking you guys who's opinion I tend to trust

Us? I honestly don't know. I think Farage, like a few other politicians, see getting elected as an end in itself, rather than an opportunity to represent their electorate and try to improve their lives.

There technically is room for a far-right party whilst the Tories try to command the middle ground, but without Europe being an issue, I simply can't see existing Tory mps switching to Ukip, nor letting Farage lead them.

If the SNP start pushing for a renewed referendum though, the idea of an English Party is an interesting one. That might be enough to keep Nigel going?

As for Mrs ddc, she likes fluffy kittens

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/06/16 14:29:17]

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