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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in "Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris. "That is a good point and yeah it is strange as she wants to leave. Was it on the itv or question time one that they said nigel had someone from germany, not sure if its his wife? | |||
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" That is a good point and yeah it is strange as she wants to leave. Was it on the itv or question time one that they said nigel had someone from germany, not sure if its his wife? " That was on Question Time last night. Huge issue that his family was a mix of French and German and he is married to a German. Only in Izzard's and the Remainers minds can a a guy married to a German be a 'Little Englander'. It would be funny if it wasn't all so serious. And of course Auntie BBC, when Robinson was the political correspondent, went after Farage because he employs his wife as a Secretary. Like 90% of all politicians do. She happens to be German so he was told he should have employed an English person. Utter cant, hypocrisy and rubbish. Farage is under the Andrew Neil scrutiny this evening. I watched Osborne and he was torn to shreds by Neil ..... | |||
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"I realise this may be a bit of a stretch ..a tiny little bit of abstract thinking is required, which is beyond the ability of some...but perhaps - just perhaps - by highlighting Farage's family history and relationship choices, commentators are simply pointing out the utter hypocrisy of the man. Sheesh "what hypocrisy? | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris. "Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right? | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?"Exactly ! Tho many people think it is ! Vote Out  | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?"and you know the meaning of bigot, right? | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?"Also, I wasn't online to see your reply to debunked being used wrongly. Yes, ITV also used it incorrectly. There's lots of words being used here incorrectly. Don't just copy what others say, research for yourself and think independently. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?"Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. "you are not a Bigot ! I want out and English Independance ! But I also want Priti Patel as my prime Minister !  | |||
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The closer to the day, the worse it's gonna get.
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris. "Man4you was merely pointing out that Priti Patel isn't an immigrant and it would be a bit odd to say she was either because her parents were or she has a brown skin. Any attempt to add weight to her views because they are from an immigrant is misleading, not that it adds anything to the debate anyway. Besides, if she was a migrant you would surely be saying she has no right to express her views in this debate? | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. "You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted | |||
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"This whole subject is heading down Stupid Alley again. We had a few days when it was almost reasonable but it's back to "You are; No you are"
The closer to the day, the worse it's gonna get.
"The main issue I have is people don't want to admit to having political ideals motivated by prejudiced desires, and they'd like to conceal them with erroneous and half arsed facts. People don't care about the best for the UK, they just don't want any more foreigners coming in. It's so bizarre to be so adverse to multiculturalism. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted"That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned. | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. " . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic " It keeps being addressed, so I have to use the word I'm talking about otherwise it'll just be a game of Blankety Blank. Silly. It's also weird to kinda suggest xenophobia is a likeable trait, so I ought to stop using it. | |||
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"This whole subject is heading down Stupid Alley again. We had a few days when it was almost reasonable but it's back to "You are; No you are"
The closer to the day, the worse it's gonna get.
The main issue I have is people don't want to admit to having political ideals motivated by prejudiced desires, and they'd like to conceal them with erroneous and half arsed facts. People don't care about the best for the UK, they just don't want any more foreigners coming in. It's so bizarre to be so adverse to multiculturalism. "I would agree with you if you had said SOME people don't care about the best for the UK etc. There are people who will vote leave for the reasons you state but there are many others who will vote leave for other reasons. | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic It keeps being addressed, so I have to use the word I'm talking about otherwise it'll just be a game of Blankety Blank. Silly. It's also weird to kinda suggest xenophobia is a likeable trait, so I ought to stop using it." . It's neither likeable nor dislikeable, it's just is what it is | |||
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"This whole subject is heading down Stupid Alley again. We had a few days when it was almost reasonable but it's back to "You are; No you are"
The closer to the day, the worse it's gonna get.
The main issue I have is people don't want to admit to having political ideals motivated by prejudiced desires, and they'd like to conceal them with erroneous and half arsed facts. People don't care about the best for the UK, they just don't want any more foreigners coming in. It's so bizarre to be so adverse to multiculturalism.
I would agree with you if you had said SOME people don't care about the best for the UK etc. There are people who will vote leave for the reasons you state but there are many others who will vote leave for other reasons."Obviously it's some, I didn't say all. The majority of all leave voters sadly fall under this category. | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic It keeps being addressed, so I have to use the word I'm talking about otherwise it'll just be a game of Blankety Blank. Silly. It's also weird to kinda suggest xenophobia is a likeable trait, so I ought to stop using it.. It's neither likeable nor dislikeable, it's just is what it is" Lol, no, it's just one of those things that exists without consequence. It is a negative trait. | |||
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" That is a good point and yeah it is strange as she wants to leave. Was it on the itv or question time one that they said nigel had someone from germany, not sure if its his wife? That was on Question Time last night. Huge issue that his family was a mix of French and German and he is married to a German. Only in Izzard's and the Remainers minds can a a guy married to a German be a 'Little Englander'. It would be funny if it wasn't all so serious. And of course Auntie BBC, when Robinson was the political correspondent, went after Farage because he employs his wife as a Secretary. Like 90% of all politicians do. She happens to be German so he was told he should have employed an English person. Utter cant, hypocrisy and rubbish. Farage is under the Andrew Neil scrutiny this evening. I watched Osborne and he was torn to shreds by Neil ....." Yes, thought so as well and it seems they like the germans, it would be interesting to see, what happens to them if a brexit, or if it is one rule for them and one for the rest. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned. "An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic It keeps being addressed, so I have to use the word I'm talking about otherwise it'll just be a game of Blankety Blank. Silly. It's also weird to kinda suggest xenophobia is a likeable trait, so I ought to stop using it.. It's neither likeable nor dislikeable, it's just is what it is Lol, no, it's just one of those things that exists without consequence. It is a negative trait. " . Not if your Palestinian | |||
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"This whole subject is heading down Stupid Alley again. We had a few days when it was almost reasonable but it's back to "You are; No you are"
The closer to the day, the worse it's gonna get.
The main issue I have is people don't want to admit to having political ideals motivated by prejudiced desires, and they'd like to conceal them with erroneous and half arsed facts. People don't care about the best for the UK, they just don't want any more foreigners coming in. It's so bizarre to be so adverse to multiculturalism. "I entirely agree....but you trying to get xenophobes to understand that they are xenophobes. It's like trring to explain penguiness to a penguin | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself""Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices: a bigoted group of reactionaries" How is saying someone is xenophobic for not wanting foreigners to come here bigoted? I'm not denying you anything for harbouring such views, I'm not even intolerant by denying you the chance to engage with me, I just think you're wrong and the people I've met were xenophobic. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself"Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that? | |||
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" Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn. . You have a slight obsession with the word xenophobia!... It's like you have a phobia of anything xenophobic It keeps being addressed, so I have to use the word I'm talking about otherwise it'll just be a game of Blankety Blank. Silly. It's also weird to kinda suggest xenophobia is a likeable trait, so I ought to stop using it.. It's neither likeable nor dislikeable, it's just is what it is Lol, no, it's just one of those things that exists without consequence. It is a negative trait. . Not if your Palestinian" Yes it is. You are deliberately tring to obscure the point buster! | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?""I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
"Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices:
a bigoted group of reactionaries"
. ". That definition pretty much describes the vast majority of Muslims wishing to come in as immigrants so being xenophobic of bigots is good or bad, I'm confused | |||
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"i just think the most ardent leavers aren't the ones who's jobs are on the line if it does go that way.... easy to make the decisions when there is no "skin" in the game...... i just wonder what you would say to the faces of the people who end up losing their jobs..... collateral damage!.... one for the team eh!!! " Nah but their own salary is, it's weird that they'd sacrifice it stretching as far just for "sovereignty" (but staying in the UN and NATO is cool). | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
"Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices:
a bigoted group of reactionaries"
. .
That definition pretty much describes the vast majority of Muslims wishing to come in as immigrants so being xenophobic of bigots is good or bad, I'm confused"How could you possibly know the majority of possible Muslim migrants are intolerant of non Islamic culture? | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. " You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. | |||
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"i just think the most ardent leavers aren't the ones who's jobs are on the line if it does go that way.... easy to make the decisions when there is no "skin" in the game...... i just wonder what you would say to the faces of the people who end up losing their jobs..... collateral damage!.... one for the team eh!!! Nah but their own salary is, it's weird that they'd sacrifice it stretching as far just for "sovereignty" (but staying in the UN and NATO is cool)." they will just find someone else to scapegoat.... it will be the "colonies" for not producing enough people...... | |||
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"Come come now Doorsy. The vast majority? " . Ok I'll take it back...a large minority!.  | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. " Do you feel that rolling out a token immigrant or two is OK as long as you are for Brexit, as Centaur UK did? | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. " Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. " No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird. "No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples! | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
"Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices:
a bigoted group of reactionaries"
. .
That definition pretty much describes the vast majority of Muslims wishing to come in as immigrants so being xenophobic of bigots is good or bad, I'm confused
How could you possibly know the majority of possible Muslim migrants are intolerant of non Islamic culture? ". Death threats for cartoonists, writers, gays, women... The list is endless. . . How do you know the vast majority of leaves are xenophobes? | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
"Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices:
a bigoted group of reactionaries"
. .
That definition pretty much describes the vast majority of Muslims wishing to come in as immigrants so being xenophobic of bigots is good or bad, I'm confused
How could you possibly know the majority of possible Muslim migrants are intolerant of non Islamic culture? .
Death threats for cartoonists, writers, gays, women...
The list is endless.
.
.
How do you know the vast majority of leaves are xenophobes?"Really? So a supposition is your evidence? I don't, I didn't say that. I wouldn't just make a claim based on a guess of it maybe being right. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird.
No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples!"Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
"Obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people’s beliefs and practices:
a bigoted group of reactionaries"
. .
That definition pretty much describes the vast majority of Muslims wishing to come in as immigrants so being xenophobic of bigots is good or bad, I'm confused
How could you possibly know the majority of possible Muslim migrants are intolerant of non Islamic culture? .
Death threats for cartoonists, writers, gays, women...
The list is endless.
.
.
How do you know the vast majority of leaves are xenophobes?
Really? So a supposition is your evidence?
I don't, I didn't say that. I wouldn't just make a claim based on a guess of it maybe being right. "It's a smoke screen. Doors is the only one to use the term 'vast majority' on this thread. | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. " Well you have spoken to someone now who is not ultimately motivated. Why don't you take a step back rather than turning every debate on here into a witch hunt because someone doesn't agree with you after all your an adult (or wouldn't be on here) so surely you can master a debate without being condescending with other site users?. | |||
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" The majority of all leave voters sadly fall under this category." . Errr this bit here  | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird.
No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples!
Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational. "who wants to close the borders?! Jeez, another assumption  | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. Well you have spoken to someone now who is not ultimately motivated. Why don't you take a step back rather than turning every debate on here into a witch hunt because someone doesn't agree with you after all your an adult (or wouldn't be on here) so surely you can master a debate without being condescending with other site users?." Get a grip and some perspective, it's not a witch hunt. I enjoy posting, I think it's silly to tell others what to do. Maybe you should consider spending your time not telling people what to talk about if it upsets you so much? You seem to always be unable to manage a decent conversation on here without getting personally offended and moany, and you especially take issue with my posts (yet you always address me like you've nothing better to do than follow my comments). | |||
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" It's a smoke screen. Doors is the only one to use the term 'vast majority' on this thread." . I did take that back actually .
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird.
No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples!
Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational.
who wants to close the borders?! Jeez, another assumption "You know you're telling me here that you know the conversations I've had better than I do, and you're accusing me of making assumptions? Take a moment to think about that. | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird.
No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples!
Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational.
who wants to close the borders?! Jeez, another assumption
You know you're telling me here that you know the conversations I've had better than I do, and you're accusing me of making assumptions? Take a moment to think about that. "I mean the assumption that Brexiters want to close the borders | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. Well you have spoken to someone now who is not ultimately motivated. Why don't you take a step back rather than turning every debate on here into a witch hunt because someone doesn't agree with you after all your an adult (or wouldn't be on here) so surely you can master a debate without being condescending with other site users?. Get a grip and some perspective, it's not a witch hunt. I enjoy posting, I think it's silly to tell others what to do. Maybe you should consider spending your time not telling people what to talk about if it upsets you so much? You seem to always be unable to manage a decent conversation on here without getting personally offended and moany, and you especially take issue with my posts (yet you always address me like you've nothing better to do than follow my comments)." Think you just proved my point | |||
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"The other one filled up too quick, continue here. I liked the debate, did you? But they didn't cover such things as what would happen to those who live abroad if a brexit? Are you in or out? I am in
Seeing as you started a part 2 shag then Man4you ended the other thread by saying Priti Patel was born in London. Yes she was but she is the daughter of Ugandan Indian immigrants to Britain so the idea that she could be called xenophobic for wanting to leave the EU is laughable. Nigel Farage was born in Britain but it didn't stop Eddie Izzard and the Remain campaign trying to make an issue of Nigel Farage's ancestry last night on Question Time either. Eddie Izzard went on and on and on and on about it, so it seems to me the remain campaign can't make the positive case for staying in the EU they have now descended into hurling insults and trying to make it a competition about personalities rather than the key issues Britain has with the EU. The same happened on the itv debate with personal insults and digs at Boris.
Xenophobia isn't just not liking brown people, you know that, right?
and you know the meaning of bigot, right?
Yes. I don't see what I've said that is bigoted - please address it and quote me, otherwise I'll never learn.
You don't see? How about the accusation that everyone you've spoken to who has concerns about immigration is a xenophobe? Like I said, you have either spoken to very few on the matter or are simply intolerant of other people's views, ie bigoted
That's not bigoted, I don't dislike them or deny them rights because of it - I just think they're xenophobic which is a descriptive word for what they are. Bigoted would be me saying xenophobic people don't deserve the right to vote as their judgment is maligned.
An intolerance of other people's views isn't bigoted? Maybe you should rewrite the dictionary then to suit yourself
Bigot is defined as a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. I think that would apply to anyone who wrote on here that all people who want to stay in the EU are fucking idiots, don't you? That would be very bigoted if someone were to write something like that?
"I hate blacks and if you call me racist then you're a bigot" would also be true applying this logic. Weird.
No. The whole point is that you assume them to be xenophobes and dismiss any other reason for their concerns. You have decided in your own mind what people are, therefore intolerant of their views. To be against mass immigration is not to dislike other peoples!
Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational.
who wants to close the borders?! Jeez, another assumption
You know you're telling me here that you know the conversations I've had better than I do, and you're accusing me of making assumptions? Take a moment to think about that.
I mean the assumption that Brexiters want to close the borders"That's (yet again) not what I said. | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. Well you have spoken to someone now who is not ultimately motivated. Why don't you take a step back rather than turning every debate on here into a witch hunt because someone doesn't agree with you after all your an adult (or wouldn't be on here) so surely you can master a debate without being condescending with other site users?. Get a grip and some perspective, it's not a witch hunt. I enjoy posting, I think it's silly to tell others what to do. Maybe you should consider spending your time not telling people what to talk about if it upsets you so much? You seem to always be unable to manage a decent conversation on here without getting personally offended and moany, and you especially take issue with my posts (yet you always address me like you've nothing better to do than follow my comments). Think you just proved my point " Yeh but you're consistently deluded. | |||
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"Does it really matter what colour a persons skin is really? Seems a few on this thread yet again are throwing words around because people don't agree with there views. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion weather you agree or not the same as everyone can make a choice to vote in or out. Why not for once stick to the debate rather than throwing curve balls for your own needs or gains. You have nothing to contribute except for telling others to stop talking about what you don't want discussed, and you're questioning if other posts matter. Well your the one that said anyone voting out is xenophobic I'm thread 1. I'm entitled to vote which ever way I want should you like it or not but it doesn't make me xenophobic like your insinuating. No I didn't, I said I hadn't engaged with anyone who wishes to leave the EU not ultimately motivated by xenophobia. I've also never said you're not allowed to vote. Maybe take a step back and re read before coming to the wrong conclusions and telling everyone what they can and can't talk about. Well you have spoken to someone now who is not ultimately motivated. Why don't you take a step back rather than turning every debate on here into a witch hunt because someone doesn't agree with you after all your an adult (or wouldn't be on here) so surely you can master a debate without being condescending with other site users?. Get a grip and some perspective, it's not a witch hunt. I enjoy posting, I think it's silly to tell others what to do. Maybe you should consider spending your time not telling people what to talk about if it upsets you so much? You seem to always be unable to manage a decent conversation on here without getting personally offended and moany, and you especially take issue with my posts (yet you always address me like you've nothing better to do than follow my comments). Think you just proved my point Yeh but you're consistently deluded. " Aw now your throwing personal insults so predictable. | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not" Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. | |||
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"They also said if it is a brexit, it could split up great britain as we know it today, as scotland want to be independent and not sure what will happen to ireland." Scotland doesn't want to be independent. The SNP made their usual claims about a Brexit being a cause for a second referendum but now that they've seen polls suggesting they'd lose again even if there was a Brexit they are slowly back-tracking. Their language has changed over the past few days. | |||
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" It's a smoke screen. Doors is the only one to use the term 'vast majority' on this thread.. I did take that back actually .
"I know | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not" Isn't it like that everywhere? We get warned when travellers are local as we are so rural doesn't mean they will nick anything every race as bad amongst them, think the British footy fans have proved that the past couple days. | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. " . I told them it was circumstantial evidence at best they went  this is a factory not an online forum, do you like your makita power tools or not, I said yes I do(quietly) but your a Hungarian that's nearly Romanian, your like next door.... He said, it's to you there not my power tools and I'm nothing like Romanian!.
I said maybe were all xenophobes in this factory, he said yeah whatever now watch your power tools with the Romanians.
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That's a true story...I wasn't even half d*unk | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. " or all Poles are xenophobes eh | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. or all Poles are xenophobes eh" How did you read that from the statement made... ? Your comprehension is shocking. | |||
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"They also said if it is a brexit, it could split up great britain as we know it today, as scotland want to be independent and not sure what will happen to ireland. Scotland doesn't want to be independent. The SNP made their usual claims about a Brexit being a cause for a second referendum but now that they've seen polls suggesting they'd lose again even if there was a Brexit they are slowly back-tracking. Their language has changed over the past few days." I see so it is just SNP that wants it but not the population, yeah I guess they use the brexit to gain popularity, but it don't work. | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. or all Poles are xenophobes eh How did you read that from the statement made... ? Your comprehension is shocking. " oh sorry, it was just quite a few of the Poles, my mistake | |||
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"Fear of heights, fear of drowning, fear of flying,.... There all evolutionary traits designed to keep you on your toes, if the world was utopian then maybe xenophobia would be irrational? The factory where I was working last week, quite a few of the polish told me to "watch out" for the Romanians. I said cheers thanks for the warning but stop being such a racist xenophobe, they said OK it's up to you whether you want your tools nicked or not Didn't know all Romanians were thieves, I've learned something new. or all Poles are xenophobes eh How did you read that from the statement made... ? Your comprehension is shocking. oh sorry, it was just quite a few of the Poles, my mistake" No, that still doesn't make sense. Even as a joke, it's tenuous. | |||
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"They also said if it is a brexit, it could split up great britain as we know it today, as scotland want to be independent and not sure what will happen to ireland. Scotland doesn't want to be independent. The SNP made their usual claims about a Brexit being a cause for a second referendum but now that they've seen polls suggesting they'd lose again even if there was a Brexit they are slowly back-tracking. Their language has changed over the past few days." Im scottish. I do want self reliance of our nation. So called independence. We arent dependant on anyone. Just more bull from the media. The reason? Westminster has been far to corrupt for far too long. | |||
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"Westminster has been far to corrupt for far too long. " The EU has corruption built into its foundations. If we can take back our country we have a better chance of dealing with our own Parliament through democratic elections. | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country." How does it strangle the UK? | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. How does it strangle the UK? " It tells us what to do ! Vote Out | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country." this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... | |||
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"Thought the Brexiters won the debate easily last night and that was reflected in the applause from the audience. Slightly off topic, I thought John Mann spoke well and made some good points on t.v. today and could help sway undecided voters and Labour die hards who might have felt guilty about voting againrt the official party line "Not just John Mann on the Labour side Coming out to back Brexit today, also the Labour MP Dennis Skinner is also backing Brexit and is urging Labour voters to vote Leave on June 23rd. | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... " Is that the 9 out of 10 from 600 economists (real figure) or the 9 out of 10 from 4000 economists you'd like us all to believe?  | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... Is that the 9 out of 10 from 600 economists (real figure) or the 9 out of 10 from 4000 economists you'd like us all to believe? "and thats what you got out of the post..... like i said... i am guessing yours isn't one of the people whos job is potentially under threat then.... so what you say those who may lose there jobs based on your decision..... let me use citibank as an example from yesterday.... because there boss sent a memo to 9000 staff outlining potential forward planning based on exit... so what you say face to face to those people if they lost their jobs.... or are they just collateral damage? | |||
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"Thought the Brexiters won the debate easily last night and that was reflected in the applause from the audience. Slightly off topic, I thought John Mann spoke well and made some good points on t.v. today and could help sway undecided voters and Labour die hards who might have felt guilty about voting againrt the official party line
Not just John Mann on the Labour side Coming out to back Brexit today, also the Labour MP Dennis Skinner is also backing Brexit and is urging Labour voters to vote Leave on June 23rd. "just 95% of UK mp's left to convert then not sure there is enough time left before the referendum happens ..and still the version of brexit you could end up with could leave you and the rest of the brexit campaign sorely disappointed... | |||
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"Is this a debate about the EU referendum or immigration ???? Immigration is just one factor to consider when voting. I will vote out so we can take back control and make our own laws !!! These laws to be made by an elected and accountable Government not an unelected council of commissioners !! " mmm the house of lords springs to mind as they amend many bills put before them or they send them back to the commons .so unelected bureaucrats in the UK as well .... | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. " you're figure of60% is wildly inaccurate..... | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. " | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. " are they not elected by the mep's? we don't elect the Secretaries of state, chairs of the various committees nor the house of Lords.. but people don't seem to mind that.. i think the figure quoted by the full facts people was about 13% not 60%.. | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. you're figure of60% is wildly inaccurate....." The 60 % figure is what I read when I looked into it. Is that really the best defence though. Does it matter if it 60% or 40% ??!! I believe in a common market - which is what we voted for the last time the British public were consulted - not unelected bearucrats in Brussells setting our laws. Vote out and end this distasterous experiment | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. are they not elected by the mep's? we don't elect the Secretaries of state, chairs of the various committees nor the house of Lords.. but people don't seem to mind that.. i think the figure quoted by the full facts people was about 13% not 60%.." No the EU commissioners are not MEPs and not elected by the public unlike our Government Ministers. The EU Commision write the laws which are then voted on my MEPs. The MEPs do not set the Agenda. Our MEPs are out voted more than any from any other member country. Time to take back control of our laws and vote out. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. " but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. are they not elected by the mep's? we don't elect the Secretaries of state, chairs of the various committees nor the house of Lords.. but people don't seem to mind that.. i think the figure quoted by the full facts people was about 13% not 60%.. No the EU commissioners are not MEPs and not elected by the public unlike our Government Ministers. The EU Commision write the laws which are then voted on my MEPs. The MEPs do not set the Agenda. Our MEPs are out voted more than any from any other member country. Time to take back control of our laws and vote out. " thought the mep's vote on those put forward to be commissioners, and they are elected by their individual states.. being outvoted is called democracy.. we do have control of our laws.. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.." John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. " Mann is a blairite and when in office workers rights were not that high on the agenda as with the Tories.. pressures on wages are basically called globalisation and the market will drive down costs to increase profit, that will not change post the 24th whatever the result.. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. Mann is a blairite and when in office workers rights were not that high on the agenda as with the Tories.. pressures on wages are basically called globalisation and the market will drive down costs to increase profit, that will not change post the 24th whatever the result.." John Mann is an ex Trade union official so I'm surprised to hear you say workers rights are not high on his agenda? | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. " The House of Lords, now there's an unelected body which should be concerning people yet never gets mentioned. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. Mann is a blairite and when in office workers rights were not that high on the agenda as with the Tories.. pressures on wages are basically called globalisation and the market will drive down costs to increase profit, that will not change post the 24th whatever the result.. John Mann is an ex Trade union official so I'm surprised to hear you say workers rights are not high on his agenda? " Blairs.. funny enough i met John Mann in the strangers bar in 97 when i was also a Union official, he seemed surprised that a couple of us myself included thought Blair came across a bit shifty.. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. Mann is a blairite and when in office workers rights were not that high on the agenda as with the Tories.. pressures on wages are basically called globalisation and the market will drive down costs to increase profit, that will not change post the 24th whatever the result.. John Mann is an ex Trade union official so I'm surprised to hear you say workers rights are not high on his agenda? " Plus in case you missed it Tony Blair himself is on the side of the Remain campaign. Maybe he is only interested in helping the rich bankers and the mega rich multi national companies who use the lobbies in Brussels to crush competition and entrepreneurs starting out in business. | |||
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"Vote brexit and get pretty much nothing that you're looking for. You can't leave a club and still expect to use its facilities but pick and choose your own deal. Immigration and free movement will continue whatever we vote. Deal with it. but but surely cos we are Brits they will have to do what we want.. surely when we leave we will be 'great' again and that will mean, err what will it mean..? the thought of the right wing of the Tory party holding the reins if a Brexit is the result should not be dismissed as fear or scaremongering.. the attack upon workers rights is one area that i strongly feel is on the cards without the protection of the EU.. the term 'be careful what you ask for as you may not like what you get' seems a tad relevant.. John Mann and Dennis Skinner both Labour MP's are saying today vote Leave to protect workers rights in Britain and to stop the downward pressure put on wages by uncontrolled immigration from The EU. Mann is a blairite and when in office workers rights were not that high on the agenda as with the Tories.. pressures on wages are basically called globalisation and the market will drive down costs to increase profit, that will not change post the 24th whatever the result.. John Mann is an ex Trade union official so I'm surprised to hear you say workers rights are not high on his agenda? Plus in case you missed it Tony Blair himself is on the side of the Remain campaign. Maybe he is only interested in helping the rich bankers and the mega rich multi national companies who use the lobbies in Brussels to crush competition and entrepreneurs starting out in business. " You'll be pleased to lose Labour’s Khalid Mahmood when he goes then - you don't need a labour MP around who might expose racism in the Brexit camp. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-khalid-mahmood-brexit-second-mp-ready-to-quit-leave-campaign-amid-racism-concerns-a7073256.html Dr Sarah Wollaston must have been unnecessary to the Brexit campaign as well, it wouldn't help to have someone else who knows what she's talking about exposing Leave’s ‘false’ NHS claims, would it? | |||
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"Think we all need a bullshit button x" wouldn't be any fun with one of those the remain camp wouldn't have any one left to banter with .... | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... " Hmmm yeah those economists. All 540 of the 4,000..... Reality Check. Reality Check. So when Peugeot dumped about 10,000 jobs in Ryton and moved production to outside the EU that was OK then? And when Ford dumped thousands of jobs when they moved car production to Germany and Belgium and Transit production to Turkey that was OK then? I mean all those jobs lost when we were IN the EU so who said 'oops' then fellah? You make me smile with your 'clever' remarks that are nearly but not quite accurate and you say (for example) all those jobs that will be lost post Brexit. What jobs are those then? The Port Talbot ones that the Tories are keeping alive until after the 23rd? Osborne said that Airbus would stop investing and waved a piece made in Cheshire 'by a small company that will close'. Andrew Neil nailed him that no one else builds Airbus wings but us. But the fact is the UK MD of Airbus has said in a BBC interview "We are going nowhere. But we may invest more in the USA or China". If that wasn't crude scaremongering and bloody lies I don't know what is. Cameron says "It will take years to get trade agreements" and got his mate Obama (who couldn't really care less these days) to gob off about 'going to the back of the queue'. And in so doing grossly insulted the USA's best and often only ally. Cheers Obama. Except that in September 2012 Cameron was urging British businesses to export more to non-EU countries 'as we have extensive bilateral trade agreements' and a document was published and put on a Gov. Website to prove how many we had in place. That document was taken down last week. So was the PM misleading us in 2012 or is he misleading us now? I fear it is the latter as I have copies of that very document. Project Fear has failed, the vested interests are now panicking and its why the 'Remainers' are getting very personal. They have reason to be worried. We the Brexiters are now 10 points up. Vote Out on the 23rd and make the 24th our Independence Day | |||
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"Think we all need a bullshit button xwouldn't be any fun with one of those the remain camp wouldn't have any one left to banter with ...." Sorry don't you mean 'bullshit with' as its all the Remainers are doing... | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... Hmmm yeah those economists. All 540 of the 4,000..... Reality Check. Reality Check. So when Peugeot dumped about 10,000 jobs in Ryton and moved production to outside the EU that was OK then? And when Ford dumped thousands of jobs when they moved car production to Germany and Belgium and Transit production to Turkey that was OK then? I mean all those jobs lost when we were IN the EU so who said 'oops' then fellah? You make me smile with your 'clever' remarks that are nearly but not quite accurate and you say (for example) all those jobs that will be lost post Brexit. What jobs are those then? The Port Talbot ones that the Tories are keeping alive until after the 23rd? Osborne said that Airbus would stop investing and waved a piece made in Cheshire 'by a small company that will close'. Andrew Neil nailed him that no one else builds Airbus wings but us. But the fact is the UK MD of Airbus has said in a BBC interview "We are going nowhere. But we may invest more in the USA or China". If that wasn't crude scaremongering and bloody lies I don't know what is. Cameron says "It will take years to get trade agreements" and got his mate Obama (who couldn't really care less these days) to gob off about 'going to the back of the queue'. And in so doing grossly insulted the USA's best and often only ally. Cheers Obama. Except that in September 2012 Cameron was urging British businesses to export more to non-EU countries 'as we have extensive bilateral trade agreements' and a document was published and put on a Gov. Website to prove how many we had in place. That document was taken down last week. So was the PM misleading us in 2012 or is he misleading us now? I fear it is the latter as I have copies of that very document. Project Fear has failed, the vested interests are now panicking and its why the 'Remainers' are getting very personal. They have reason to be worried. We the Brexiters are now 10 points up. Vote Out on the 23rd and make the 24th our Independence Day "You sound upset instead of balanced. You do know that we all share this country? It'd be a shame to choose to fuck it up for the rest of us with this carry on. | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. you're figure of60% is wildly inaccurate..... The 60 % figure is what I read when I looked into it. Is that really the best defence though. Does it matter if it 60% or 40% ??!! I believe in a common market - which is what we voted for the last time the British public were consulted - not unelected bearucrats in Brussells setting our laws. Vote out and end this distasterous experiment " According to a House of Commons reply some 59% of all our Laws are from the EU. In addition some 80% of all Regulations are from the EU. So as you say the only way to take control of our lawmaking, our borders, our migration policies and our security is to leave this political monstrosity that no one asked for and no one voted for. What other Trade Association demands free movement of labour, 5 Presidents all on more money than our one PM, an Anthem, A Currency and a Flag to join? Utter political madness foisted on us by a Socialist cabal of failed politicians who no one in the UK knows, has even heard of let alone voted for. Out Out Out! | |||
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"The House of Lords can reform laws or delay them but not fundamentally set them. They act as a control. Who controls the EU commissioners ?? They are unelected, unaccountable and responsible for 60% of our laws. Enough is enough - we signed up for a common market (which I agree with) not all the rest of this crap. you're figure of60% is wildly inaccurate..... The 60 % figure is what I read when I looked into it. Is that really the best defence though. Does it matter if it 60% or 40% ??!! I believe in a common market - which is what we voted for the last time the British public were consulted - not unelected bearucrats in Brussells setting our laws. Vote out and end this distasterous experiment According to a House of Commons reply some 59% of all our Laws are from the EU. In addition some 80% of all Regulations are from the EU. So as you say the only way to take control of our lawmaking, our borders, our migration policies and our security is to leave this political monstrosity that no one asked for and no one voted for. What other Trade Association demands free movement of labour, 5 Presidents all on more money than our one PM, an Anthem, A Currency and a Flag to join? Utter political madness foisted on us by a Socialist cabal of failed politicians who no one in the UK knows, has even heard of let alone voted for. Out Out Out!" It's 13% of actual laws, you ought look back on your cited House of Commons Library statistics. Regulations aren't what you consider laws. Influencing isn't dictating. | |||
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" You sound upset instead of balanced. You do know that we all share this country? It'd be a shame to choose to fuck it up for the rest of us with this carry on. " Yes I am upset about what the EU has done to the country I love and once had the honour of serving. My words are accurate, fair and very balanced. Care to prove otherwise? Now as for 'sharing' well we are all sharing in a democratic process called voting. There will be a simple majority to Leave or Remain. Whatever the outcome we will ALL have to abide by it. Its that simple. Now care to give some facts as to why leaving the EU will 'fuck it up for the rest of us'? I can give you a raft of data and facts as to how the EU has already 'fucked it up' for all of us not just some of us. | |||
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" It's 13% of actual laws, you ought look back on your cited House of Commons Library statistics. Regulations aren't what you consider laws. Influencing isn't dictating. " It was in a statement read out on the Floor of the House of Commons during PMQs. It was also the subject of a 'Point of Order' allowed by the Speaker. It is a matter of record in Hansard. It is an absolute FACT from the House of Commons Library research team. 59% of all laws originate in the EU and under the relevant UK Act of Parliament we HAVE to enact those laws. The figure for the Regulations is also accurate and in Hansard and therefore factual record. And please: I do know the difference between a regulation and a Law. EU Regulations tell us how many Bananas should be in a Hand not EU Laws ...  | |||
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" You sound upset instead of balanced. You do know that we all share this country? It'd be a shame to choose to fuck it up for the rest of us with this carry on. Yes I am upset about what the EU has done to the country I love and once had the honour of serving. My words are accurate, fair and very balanced. Care to prove otherwise? Now as for 'sharing' well we are all sharing in a democratic process called voting. There will be a simple majority to Leave or Remain. Whatever the outcome we will ALL have to abide by it. Its that simple. Now care to give some facts as to why leaving the EU will 'fuck it up for the rest of us'? I can give you a raft of data and facts as to how the EU has already 'fucked it up' for all of us not just some of us." Your statement on lawmaking is inaccurate. Recommendations are not regulations, and laws are different. You didn't even quote your source correctly. I mentioned this above. You said no one wanted it, but we voted to join. I don't understand your point saying we have to have an EU flag (we don't) or use the Euro (we don't) to be part of the EU. It wasn't 540 responses either to the economist thing. | |||
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" It's 13% of actual laws, you ought look back on your cited House of Commons Library statistics. Regulations aren't what you consider laws. Influencing isn't dictating. It was in a statement read out on the Floor of the House of Commons during PMQs. It was also the subject of a 'Point of Order' allowed by the Speaker. It is a matter of record in Hansard. It is an absolute FACT from the House of Commons Library research team. 59% of all laws originate in the EU and under the relevant UK Act of Parliament we HAVE to enact those laws. The figure for the Regulations is also accurate and in Hansard and therefore factual record. And please: I do know the difference between a regulation and a Law. EU Regulations tell us how many Bananas should be in a Hand not EU Laws ... "I don't think you do know the difference, you can't read a paragraph that states - " Calculations based on information from the UK parliamentary search database and legislation.gov.uk give the following figures for EU-related Acts and SIs for the period 1993-2014: 34,105 UK Acts and SIs 4,514 EU-related UK Acts and SIs An average of 13.2% of UK instruments are EU-related" That's your source by the way. The one you can't quote properly. | |||
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"Business for Britain, an independent body, looked at this subject after Nick Clegg claimed in 2014 only 7% of our laws came from the EU. Earlier comments put various figures up so a definitive study was commissioned. Their research found: Between 1993 and 2014, 64.7 per cent of UK law can be deemed to be EU-influenced. EU Regulations accounted for 59.3 per cent of all UK law. UK laws implementing EU EU Directives accounted for 5.4 per cent. I hope Forum rules allow me to direct people to this document as people have challenged my numbers. Business for Britain, BfB Briefing Note Page 15 https://forbritain.org/percentagelaws.pdf " but this negates what you said. EU regulations are things like controlling chemicals, climate change, working time directive, costs of travelling within the EU. These aren't laws that affect people negatively, they're regulations that are good for us, which we'd want but would struggle to control if the EU didn't say "everyone in the EU must or really should do this". Why are you against decent regulations? | |||
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" I don't think you do know the difference, you can't read a paragraph that states - " Calculations based on information from the UK parliamentary search database and legislation.gov.uk give the following figures for EU-related Acts and SIs for the period 1993-2014: 34,105 UK Acts and SIs 4,514 EU-related UK Acts and SIs An average of 13.2% of UK instruments are EU-related" That's your source by the way. The one you can't quote properly. " Less sarcasm will help the discussion. The 13% figure was one given by the Library in early 2015 in response to a very particular question. It did NOT give the wider figure I quoted until a couple of months ago. It has since been verified by that Library. So I can read my own sources its just you choose a very selective answer from 18 months ago not the wider more recent reply. The calculation made by the House of Commons Library’s research note (released January 2015) was lauded by pro-European campaigners as being the final answer to the debate.8 However, this note suffered from the same limitations as previous notes. The research limited itself to counting only Statutory Instruments and Legislative Acts which the House of Commons had access to. It must be emphasised that the vast majority of EU regulations are transposed into UK law without any Parliamentary scrutiny or consultation. That is why your figure of 13% is flawed and inaccurate. The true calculation is as follows: Stage One: - Number of EU regulations (E) from EUR-Lex is 49,699. - Number of Statutory Instruments 33,160 (A) plus Legislative Acts 945 (C) gives a total of 34,105 (A+C). Stage Two: - Total body of UK law is: 34,105 (A+C) plus 49,699 (E), making 83,804 (A+C+E). - Percentage of EU regulation transposed verbatim into UK body of law is 49,699 (E) divided by 83,804 (A+C+E), giving 59.3 per cent. Stage Three: - Mathematically expressed as follows: 49,699 83,804 = 59.3 % | |||
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" I don't think you do know the difference, you can't read a paragraph that states - " Calculations based on information from the UK parliamentary search database and legislation.gov.uk give the following figures for EU-related Acts and SIs for the period 1993-2014: 34,105 UK Acts and SIs 4,514 EU-related UK Acts and SIs An average of 13.2% of UK instruments are EU-related" That's your source by the way. The one you can't quote properly. Less sarcasm will help the discussion. The 13% figure was one given by the Library in early 2015 in response to a very particular question. It did NOT give the wider figure I quoted until a couple of months ago. It has since been verified by that Library. So I can read my own sources its just you choose a very selective answer from 18 months ago not the wider more recent reply. The calculation made by the House of Commons Library’s research note (released January 2015) was lauded by pro-European campaigners as being the final answer to the debate.8 However, this note suffered from the same limitations as previous notes. The research limited itself to counting only Statutory Instruments and Legislative Acts which the House of Commons had access to. It must be emphasised that the vast majority of EU regulations are transposed into UK law without any Parliamentary scrutiny or consultation. That is why your figure of 13% is flawed and inaccurate. The true calculation is as follows: Stage One: - Number of EU regulations (E) from EUR-Lex is 49,699. - Number of Statutory Instruments 33,160 (A) plus Legislative Acts 945 (C) gives a total of 34,105 (A+C). Stage Two: - Total body of UK law is: 34,105 (A+C) plus 49,699 (E), making 83,804 (A+C+E). - Percentage of EU regulation transposed verbatim into UK body of law is 49,699 (E) divided by 83,804 (A+C+E), giving 59.3 per cent. Stage Three: - Mathematically expressed as follows: 49,699 83,804 = 59.3 %" You keep saying the same stuff. Regulations aren't laws. You're talking regulations when you need to look at acts. | |||
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"OK I give up. I am out of this when people cannot accept factual data." But you're misquoting sources. You keep suggesting regulations are what we identify as laws when it's not true. I mentioned some above, which regulations do you disagree with? There is a difference between regulations, directives, laws, acts, decisions, opinions, recommendations. The EU does not affect 60% of UK law as in acts which is what we recognise as typical law. You have said this yourself with your quotes, yet you're not acknowledging it? | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... Hmmm yeah those economists. All 540 of the 4,000..... Reality Check. Reality Check. So when Peugeot dumped about 10,000 jobs in Ryton and moved production to outside the EU that was OK then? And when Ford dumped thousands of jobs when they moved car production to Germany and Belgium and Transit production to Turkey that was OK then? I mean all those jobs lost when we were IN the EU so who said 'oops' then fellah? You make me smile with your 'clever' remarks that are nearly but not quite accurate and you say (for example) all those jobs that will be lost post Brexit. What jobs are those then? The Port Talbot ones that the Tories are keeping alive until after the 23rd? Osborne said that Airbus would stop investing and waved a piece made in Cheshire 'by a small company that will close'. Andrew Neil nailed him that no one else builds Airbus wings but us. But the fact is the UK MD of Airbus has said in a BBC interview "We are going nowhere. But we may invest more in the USA or China". If that wasn't crude scaremongering and bloody lies I don't know what is. Cameron says "It will take years to get trade agreements" and got his mate Obama (who couldn't really care less these days) to gob off about 'going to the back of the queue'. And in so doing grossly insulted the USA's best and often only ally. Cheers Obama. Except that in September 2012 Cameron was urging British businesses to export more to non-EU countries 'as we have extensive bilateral trade agreements' and a document was published and put on a Gov. Website to prove how many we had in place. That document was taken down last week. So was the PM misleading us in 2012 or is he misleading us now? I fear it is the latter as I have copies of that very document. Project Fear has failed, the vested interests are now panicking and its why the 'Remainers' are getting very personal. They have reason to be worried. We the Brexiters are now 10 points up. Vote Out on the 23rd and make the 24th our Independence Day "If it's all going to be so easy, why did Dominic Cummings blog this on wordpress this time last year: " A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions. An interesting attempt at such a plan is FLEXCIT based on using the EEA as a transition phase – remaining in the Single Market and retaining a (modified) version of free movement – while a better deal, inevitably taking years, is negotiated. This is an attempt to take the Single Market out of the referendum debate. B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan. " You're being conned by the Brexit campaign. Cummings and co planned it over a year ago. But I guess you are enjoying the experience. | |||
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"OK I give up. I am out of this when people cannot accept factual data. But you're misquoting sources. You keep suggesting regulations are what we identify as laws when it's not true. I mentioned some above, which regulations do you disagree with? There is a difference between regulations, directives, laws, acts, decisions, opinions, recommendations. The EU does not affect 60% of UK law as in acts which is what we recognise as typical law. You have said this yourself with your quotes, yet you're not acknowledging it?" The people who did those counts also pointed out that they counted just the instances of the words European Union/EU without any analysis of the significance of the relevance - which could be for example to say 'this law is not affected by EU legislation'. | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... Hmmm yeah those economists. All 540 of the 4,000..... Reality Check. Reality Check. So when Peugeot dumped about 10,000 jobs in Ryton and moved production to outside the EU that was OK then? And when Ford dumped thousands of jobs when they moved car production to Germany and Belgium and Transit production to Turkey that was OK then? I mean all those jobs lost when we were IN the EU so who said 'oops' then fellah? You make me smile with your 'clever' remarks that are nearly but not quite accurate and you say (for example) all those jobs that will be lost post Brexit. What jobs are those then? The Port Talbot ones that the Tories are keeping alive until after the 23rd? Osborne said that Airbus would stop investing and waved a piece made in Cheshire 'by a small company that will close'. Andrew Neil nailed him that no one else builds Airbus wings but us. But the fact is the UK MD of Airbus has said in a BBC interview "We are going nowhere. But we may invest more in the USA or China". If that wasn't crude scaremongering and bloody lies I don't know what is. Cameron says "It will take years to get trade agreements" and got his mate Obama (who couldn't really care less these days) to gob off about 'going to the back of the queue'. And in so doing grossly insulted the USA's best and often only ally. Cheers Obama. Except that in September 2012 Cameron was urging British businesses to export more to non-EU countries 'as we have extensive bilateral trade agreements' and a document was published and put on a Gov. Website to prove how many we had in place. That document was taken down last week. So was the PM misleading us in 2012 or is he misleading us now? I fear it is the latter as I have copies of that very document. Project Fear has failed, the vested interests are now panicking and its why the 'Remainers' are getting very personal. They have reason to be worried. We the Brexiters are now 10 points up. Vote Out on the 23rd and make the 24th our Independence Day
If it's all going to be so easy, why did Dominic Cummings blog this on wordpress this time last year:
A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions. An interesting attempt at such a plan is FLEXCIT based on using the EEA as a transition phase – remaining in the Single Market and retaining a (modified) version of free movement – while a better deal, inevitably taking years, is negotiated. This is an attempt to take the Single Market out of the referendum debate.
B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan.
You're being conned by the Brexit campaign. Cummings and co planned it over a year ago. But I guess you are enjoying the experience. "......and David Cameron had a pre-run of his Project Fear campaign during the Scottish referendum, which he is now using again in this EU referendum. You are being conned by the Remain campaign. But I guess you are enjoying the experience (for a 2nd time). | |||
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"Remember that if we didn't join the Euro the world would end? Nobody but nobody knows what will happen. We need to decide based on what happens not what might happen. What happens is the EU strangles this country. this question is going to sound really flippant and sarcastic, but its not meant to be..... "is that the speech you have ready for the people who start losing their jobs based on your decisions....." if the majority of economists are right, if the IMF are right, the IFS are right, the majority of the economic reports are right..... is going to real hard to just say "oops".... as i said earlier... its real easy to have passion on the topic if it isn't your job on the line..... but hey, "skin in the game".... right? as i fear, its real easy to write cheques in speeches, much harder to cash them if theres no money in the coffers.... Hmmm yeah those economists. All 540 of the 4,000..... Reality Check. Reality Check. So when Peugeot dumped about 10,000 jobs in Ryton and moved production to outside the EU that was OK then? And when Ford dumped thousands of jobs when they moved car production to Germany and Belgium and Transit production to Turkey that was OK then? I mean all those jobs lost when we were IN the EU so who said 'oops' then fellah? You make me smile with your 'clever' remarks that are nearly but not quite accurate and you say (for example) all those jobs that will be lost post Brexit. What jobs are those then? The Port Talbot ones that the Tories are keeping alive until after the 23rd? Osborne said that Airbus would stop investing and waved a piece made in Cheshire 'by a small company that will close'. Andrew Neil nailed him that no one else builds Airbus wings but us. But the fact is the UK MD of Airbus has said in a BBC interview "We are going nowhere. But we may invest more in the USA or China". If that wasn't crude scaremongering and bloody lies I don't know what is. Cameron says "It will take years to get trade agreements" and got his mate Obama (who couldn't really care less these days) to gob off about 'going to the back of the queue'. And in so doing grossly insulted the USA's best and often only ally. Cheers Obama. Except that in September 2012 Cameron was urging British businesses to export more to non-EU countries 'as we have extensive bilateral trade agreements' and a document was published and put on a Gov. Website to prove how many we had in place. That document was taken down last week. So was the PM misleading us in 2012 or is he misleading us now? I fear it is the latter as I have copies of that very document. Project Fear has failed, the vested interests are now panicking and its why the 'Remainers' are getting very personal. They have reason to be worried. We the Brexiters are now 10 points up. Vote Out on the 23rd and make the 24th our Independence Day
If it's all going to be so easy, why did Dominic Cummings blog this on wordpress this time last year:
A. Creating an exit plan that makes sense and which all reasonable people could unite around seems an almost insuperable task. Eurosceptic groups have been divided for years about many of the basic policy and political questions. An interesting attempt at such a plan is FLEXCIT based on using the EEA as a transition phase – remaining in the Single Market and retaining a (modified) version of free movement – while a better deal, inevitably taking years, is negotiated. This is an attempt to take the Single Market out of the referendum debate.
B. Even if one succeeded, the sheer complexity of leaving would involve endless questions of detail that cannot be answered in such a plan even were it to be 20,000 pages long, and the longer it is the more errors are likely. On top of the extremely complex policy issues is a feedback loop – constructing such a plan depends partly on inherently uncertain assumptions about what is politically sellable in a referendum, making it even harder to rally support behind a plan.
You're being conned by the Brexit campaign. Cummings and co planned it over a year ago. But I guess you are enjoying the experience.
......and David Cameron had a pre-run of his Project Fear campaign during the Scottish referendum, which he is now using again in this EU referendum. You are being conned by the Remain campaign.
But I guess you are enjoying the experience (for a 2nd time). "I'm enjoying seeing the same old nonsense approach being trotted out again where from a position of weakness Brexit is going to triumph against the rest of the world. And how are we going to do that? Through our team spirit and sheer will power - just like willing the 2nd XV along to win a rugby match in Farage's public school | |||
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" Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational. " We are in favour of controlling immigration as England cannot cope with the numbers comming at present. Some areas of the UK could cope with more immigrantion (such as Scotland) but the infrastructure cannot cope the the mass immigrantion we now see. It is nothing to do with the economy but due to the infastructure, houses, schools roads etc. etc. No government since the time of Maggie Thatcher has built enough houses and even her government would have needed to build more to cope with the present numbers of immigrants. It is not a case of stopping immigration but of controlling the numbers | |||
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" Why do you assume I haven't talked in depth with people? Cos you're wrong. To be against immigrants and to want to close borders despite the benefits for the UK is xenophobic cos it's irrational. We are in favour of controlling immigration as England cannot cope with the numbers comming at present. Some areas of the UK could cope with more immigrantion (such as Scotland) but the infrastructure cannot cope the the mass immigrantion we now see. It is nothing to do with the economy but due to the infastructure, houses, schools roads etc. etc. No government since the time of Maggie Thatcher has built enough houses and even her government would have needed to build more to cope with the present numbers of immigrants. It is not a case of stopping immigration but of controlling the numbers" You're right of course, schools, hospitals, housing, roads etc are the biggest problem and successive governments have not invested enough in these things but how can any government invest properly now without knowing the number of new arrivals and having the ability to control them? On the economic front we keep hearing that uncontrolled immigration from the EU benefits the UK but it doesn't, what they put in and what they take out works out about the same so it is neutral. One of the things it does do is lower wages, especially at the bottom, as admitted by the bank of England. If Remainers think that levels of immigration are acceptable now then at what point do they become unnacceptable to them? 500,000 a year? 1 million? 2 million? Free access to live and work in the UK for anyone in the world? At what point do you become a supposed 'xenophobe'? | |||
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