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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "Political correctness dictates that a black person cannot be racist to white people. That's just known as standing up for yourself. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,, People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes .... But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,  | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes .... But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
" | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Political correctness dictates that a black person cannot be racist to white people. That's just known as standing up for yourself."How true! | |||
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"dunno about apoligise but in 2004 he said this: “The Nation of Islam taught that white people were devils,” he wrote in 2004. “I don't believe that now; in fact, I never really believed that. But when I was young, I had seen and heard so many horrible stories about the white man that this made me stop and listen."" Interesting... which is true?  | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "You do realize he said those things 50 years ago. I'm not saying what he said is right. I just want to judge him on his lifetime body of humanitarian work. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
"Beautiful - thank you Soxy x | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you?" Are you not watching the US Presidential race? | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you?" Nope. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "Funny now he s dead people want to wipe the floor with him and his outspokeness because from his own personal experiences of being a black man in American at that time white people WERE the devil! That was his truth. | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you?" Well in that case I must be a homophobic racist bigot because when I was young and knew no better, I said some pretty horrible things too,,,,,, but I evolved What purpose can possibly be served focusing on the negatives when today we have a chance to celebrate Ali's achievements and influence and part of that influence was the achievement of evolving as a human being ..... | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
"Good point well made. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Funny now he s dead people want to wipe the floor with him and his outspokeness because from his own personal experiences of being a black man in American at that time white people WERE the devil!
That was his truth."  | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. " That's true.Far safer and more profitable to stay at home making thousands out of punching other people than to go and fight in Vietnam for $20 a month combat pay !!! | |||
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"Talented, clever and inspirational people have a habit of being controversial!. It don't bother me, Ali was just wrong about his beliefs in race relations, most of it was just prejudice born out life experiences " Exactly, as Malcolm X who retracted himself after. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
" | |||
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" That's true.Far safer and more profitable to stay at home making thousands out of punching other people than to go and fight in Vietnam for $20 a month combat pay !!!" Guy was banned from his living for refusing to fight an immoral war. Check your facts. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Political correctness dictates that a black person cannot be racist to white people. That's just known as standing up for yourself."Racism is about the power relationship. Black people in America 50 years ago had no power. | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you?" ......when he said those things...Black people had to sit at the back of the bus....did you ever suffer racial prejudice? . | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
"Ali said loads of stupid things. That said, he is one of the most inspiring people ever to me. I doubt he believed all whites were devil's. It was the teachings of his Iman Elijah Muhammad who taught him that. He also grew up with segregation as a young man. I'd have probably thought of someone who treated me like that as a devil too. Ali said this stuff a long time ago. Ali had a white trainer all his career and a white management team around him. Not the action of a racist. Ali wanted a multi faith funeral of Islam, Christian and Jewish. Not the wishes of a racist in my opinion. Ali said " a man who thinks the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life" RIP Champ | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place." Well said. Didn't the same country who wanted him to fight in an immoral war also refuse to allow him to eat in certain restaurants? Whatever he said 50 yrs is nothing compared to the treatment received by black people in America. So yes I agree, wind your neck in OP. Poor attempt. | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place." | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Funny now he s dead people want to wipe the floor with him and his outspokeness because from his own personal experiences of being a black man in American at that time white people WERE the devil!
That was his truth."i could see that you may have ill will towards people if after winning an olympic gold medal for your country you are so much of a 2nd class citizen then you were refused service in a coffee house based on the colour of your skin....... | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. That's true.Far safer and more profitable to stay at home making thousands out of punching other people than to go and fight in Vietnam for $20 a month combat pay !!!" you do know he was banned from boxing anywhere in the world for 3 years, and sentenced to prison for 5 yrs and given a $10,000 fine...... they took away his livelyhood in the prime of his career.... | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "You do realise that Growing up in that time period that he was in especially in America off all places when some off the race tensions were so tense you could have cut it with a knife how on earth did you expect him to turn out? if tables were turned and you found or came across half the things he did/experienced everywhere you turned in the country you were born in and the only place you found solace in was a group off people who taught/influenced you the wrong things how would you have turned out at first? eventually he turned away from those people and went to a better path/group off people.. Lets be honest Muhammad Ali did not always say the most pleasant things in the past and some where some down right not always pleasant he did try to atone for some of things he did say or do in the past and the fact that you try looking down on them tells me more about you then it does Ali.. As a Boxing Fan who has followed the sport for many years I can and will say this Ali inspired and was loved by many all over the world including myself and my Father because off his character and his accomplishments in the Ring and what he stood for in life.. even to this day despite some off things he said in the past People saw through that and realised he was a good man with much to offer those he encountered... where as the OP seems to come across a bit Bitter... | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Funny now he s dead people want to wipe the floor with him and his outspokeness because from his own personal experiences of being a black man in American at that time white people WERE the devil!
That was his truth."Spot on. Every quote needs context. | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place." that is
with only the word ignorant missing from the first paragraph.. | |||
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"This is why I'm generally not inspired by people. Most people who are lauded constantly have countless things that could be pointed to and criticised. It isn't people we should look up to, it is ideas, values, and principles. People are good on some things and bad on others, they are very rarely good or bad people." | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you?" I can. Times change and people change. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist to begin with and he ended up well thought of because of what he did later in life. | |||
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"From mid 80's. So 30 years since he became ill and stop racist public rants. I just find it had to believe anyone saying those comments about any other race would held up as a hero and a inspirational leader. Can you? I can. Times change and people change. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist to begin with and he ended up well thought of because of what he did later in life." Gandhi was racist and wouldn't allow the dalits into the INC. | |||
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"Bet the current world champion wouldn't get the same sympathy for having pretty much the same views." The world has moved on. | |||
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"Bet the current world champion wouldn't get the same sympathy for having pretty much the same views." not now no, and nor did Ali when he said it.. judging someone who lived as a black man in the states at that time with that level of discrimination and what he said then now is easy if one just wants to look at what he said and ignore or have no knowledge or empathy for the circumstances.. | |||
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" i could see that you may have ill will towards people if after winning an olympic gold medal for your country you are so much of a 2nd class citizen then you were refused service in a coffee house based on the colour of your skin......." This. A thousand times this. | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. " fair comment shame he never fought in Vietnam the same as he fought in the ring | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "Are you for real?! | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. fair comment shame he never fought in Vietnam the same as he fought in the ring" Why the fuck should he fight in an immoral war when his own country wouldn't allow him the same privileges as white men. See comments above!!! . And give the Nina Simone song "Strange Fruit" a listen whilst you're at it. | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. fair comment shame he never fought in Vietnam the same as he fought in the ring Why the fuck should he fight in an immoral war when his own country wouldn't allow him the same privileges as white men. See comments above!!! . And give the Nina Simone song "Strange Fruit" a listen whilst you're at it. ". That's not entirely accurate. Colour segregation was abolished in the early 60s while Ali refused the draft in 67ish. To add to that there was many white men also jailed for failing the draft!. The Vietnamese war was only seen as "immoral" when they started sending home the body bags on mass, then it went through its epiphany of thought in the late 70s with most Hollywood films like stones platoon, deer hunter etc etc, i think the immoral message missed the point of the pointless message. Of course today most films have reversed that message where now war can be seen as good and moral. . . If Ali taught us one thing, it's that were all the world's a stage and all the people are players... Regardless of what colour you are | |||
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Always a lowlife in this forum that has to be bitter. For God's sake have to Respect and learn instead of making bigoted bitter comments  | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place. Well said. Didn't the same country who wanted him to fight in an immoral war also refuse to allow him to eat in certain restaurants? Whatever he said 50 yrs is nothing compared to the treatment received by black people in America. So yes I agree, wind your neck in OP. Poor attempt. " Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called ###### people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.” - Muhammad Ali context | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place. Well said. Didn't the same country who wanted him to fight in an immoral war also refuse to allow him to eat in certain restaurants? Whatever he said 50 yrs is nothing compared to the treatment received by black people in America. So yes I agree, wind your neck in OP. Poor attempt. Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called ###### people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.” - Muhammad Ali context " Well done for posting Ali's own words. | |||
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"Did anyone else "smile" at the irony of the thread title? I spend less time in here these days, as I find the racist undertones of most threads tiring and rather depressing. I'm a child of the sixties, thought we'd moved on, obviously not. " | |||
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"Colour segregation may well have been abolished but deep rooted racism exists to this day!!! Pointless message? Thanks for your opinion. As for war films personally I don't watch many. Prefer fact over fiction. " . I was talking about the move of thought from an immoral war message to a pointless war message in the aftermath of Vietnam | |||
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"Colour segregation may well have been abolished but deep rooted racism exists to this day!!! Pointless message? Thanks for your opinion. As for war films personally I don't watch many. Prefer fact over fiction. . I was talking about the move of thought from an immoral war message to a pointless war message in the aftermath of Vietnam" Well that point/points certainly came across | |||
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"All these points are very valid but of course his views back then were also very influenced by being brought up in one of the most racist parts of America during very troubled times that I'm sure I couldn't even imagine. " let's not forget Ali grew up in an area where things like where you sat on a bus, the water fountain you used, where you ate, where you went to school and many other things were dictated by the colour of your skin. Add into that routine lynchings/executions by racist vigilantes and poor living conditions and health care. If you were brought up in the environment then surely your view of the the people who treat you and your family like this would be the same as Ali's | |||
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"All these points are very valid but of course his views back then were also very influenced by being brought up in one of the most racist parts of America during very troubled times that I'm sure I couldn't even imagine. let's not forget Ali grew up in an area where things like where you sat on a bus, the water fountain you used, where you ate, where you went to school and many other things were dictated by the colour of your skin. Add into that routine lynchings/executions by racist vigilantes and poor living conditions and health care. If you were brought up in the environment then surely your view of the the people who treat you and your family like this would be the same as Ali's" Totally agree. Twenty years ago, my ex hubby came to LA from Mississippi and lived there with me. Despite having three mixed race children, we could not return to the south because of all the racial hatred we would face there (I would have been in physical danger). As a young boy he saw his uncle hanged from a tree, for talking to a white woman. The US black experience has a different history from black British (even if that can be seen as one history or experience, which is debatable)... my own children are fascinated by black history, their history and how it has shaped who they are. When they return to the US I think its important for them to know about this, even if they cant quite get their heads around it. Same for us ... when I went to the US I did not understand the issues there. I was often called a 'blue eyed devil' by my ex's friends, even in jest .... personally, my experience in the US has made me very aware of the 'hidden' racism that is accepted because I saw how dangerous and divisive it can be. It's all about the context, OP. | |||
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"Did anyone else "smile" at the irony of the thread title? I spend less time in here these days, as I find the racist undertones of most threads tiring and rather depressing. I'm a child of the sixties, thought we'd moved on, obviously not. " | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place. Well said. Didn't the same country who wanted him to fight in an immoral war also refuse to allow him to eat in certain restaurants? Whatever he said 50 yrs is nothing compared to the treatment received by black people in America. So yes I agree, wind your neck in OP. Poor attempt. Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called ###### people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.” - Muhammad Ali context Well done for posting Ali's own words. " | |||
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"White able-bodied hetero first-world boys whining. Is there ANYTHING so damned undignified? If I'd had to put up with HALF the shit Ali did, I wouldn't have just made a few intemperate comments. I'd have gone full terrorist. Wind your bloody neck in and respect a man who helped make the world a better place. Well said. Didn't the same country who wanted him to fight in an immoral war also refuse to allow him to eat in certain restaurants? Whatever he said 50 yrs is nothing compared to the treatment received by black people in America. So yes I agree, wind your neck in OP. Poor attempt. Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called ###### people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.” - Muhammad Ali context Well done for posting Ali's own words. "Bravo. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation. This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases. Shame on you. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation.
This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases.
Shame on you. ". It's ironic that on one side you've got people justifying their biases and on the other you've got people justifying Ali's biases!. All I know is Ali was a wonderful wordsmith and a fantastic boxer but full of contradictions, did i like him sure, did I think he was the devil no, was he this champion of black people, in some ways yes in other ways no, he was certainly no ML king but he was a nice guy. I don't have his posters on my wall, I don't hold him up as a guru or a God,i haven't watched his funeral and I also don't feel the need to either, it's that paradigm we live in that has to be good or bad, white or black, saint or sinner that quite frankly bemuses me | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam." Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
Political correctness dictates that a black person cannot be racist to white people. That's just known as standing up for yourself."I hate the idea blacks can't be racist. Of course they can but it's not that often a black police officer pulls a driver for being white, or stops and searches him, or blocks a promotion for a white employees, or disowns his son/daughter for checking a white person. But blacks can be racist. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation.
This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases.
Shame on you. .
It's ironic that on one side you've got people justifying their biases and on the other you've got people justifying Ali's biases!.
All I know is Ali was a wonderful wordsmith and a fantastic boxer but full of contradictions, did i like him sure, did I think he was the devil no, was he this champion of black people, in some ways yes in other ways no, he was certainly no ML king but he was a nice guy.
I don't have his posters on my wall, I don't hold him up as a guru or a God,i haven't watched his funeral and I also don't feel the need to either, it's that paradigm we live in that has to be good or bad, white or black, saint or sinner that quite frankly bemuses me"Easily bemused then aren't you as I haven't seen one person here saying he was perfect. A nice guy? Yeah whatever. He achieved more than you could dream of. | |||
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"He was anti Vietnam war so that makes him a hero in my book. " | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam. Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. " Most of the ethnic minorities were sent to Vietnam. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation.
This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases.
Shame on you. .
It's ironic that on one side you've got people justifying their biases and on the other you've got people justifying Ali's biases!.
All I know is Ali was a wonderful wordsmith and a fantastic boxer but full of contradictions, did i like him sure, did I think he was the devil no, was he this champion of black people, in some ways yes in other ways no, he was certainly no ML king but he was a nice guy.
I don't have his posters on my wall, I don't hold him up as a guru or a God,i haven't watched his funeral and I also don't feel the need to either, it's that paradigm we live in that has to be good or bad, white or black, saint or sinner that quite frankly bemuses me
Easily bemused then aren't you as I haven't seen one person here saying he was perfect.
A nice guy? Yeah whatever. He achieved more than you could dream of. "The world is in moaning all reglious leaders atended funeral. Presidents of countries.....Hollywood celebritis. This thread should be closed down due to one small minded individual who's is so bitter......probably not achieved anything in his life | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation.
This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases.
Shame on you. .
It's ironic that on one side you've got people justifying their biases and on the other you've got people justifying Ali's biases!.
All I know is Ali was a wonderful wordsmith and a fantastic boxer but full of contradictions, did i like him sure, did I think he was the devil no, was he this champion of black people, in some ways yes in other ways no, he was certainly no ML king but he was a nice guy.
I don't have his posters on my wall, I don't hold him up as a guru or a God,i haven't watched his funeral and I also don't feel the need to either, it's that paradigm we live in that has to be good or bad, white or black, saint or sinner that quite frankly bemuses me
Easily bemused then aren't you as I haven't seen one person here saying he was perfect.
A nice guy? Yeah whatever. He achieved more than you could dream of. ". What, personal insults because I don't "see it" like you do, roll out the Spanish inquisition | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam. Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. Most of the ethnic minorities were sent to Vietnam." . That's just not true, black people had no more likelihood of dying or serving in Vietnam than a white guy, over 70% of the men who fought were volunteers not drafted,10 to 12% were black, it may have been pointless from your point of view, but it did stop the rise of communism in the far east or at least hold it at bay, it may have been immoral(wars are in nature, awful) but in no way is there any facts to show it was majorly racist, I used to belive the same until I actually read about it! | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? "Perhaps over time he learned not too misinterpret what he was taught... He's legacy shows thinking people evolve whilst narrow-minded thinking remains the fall back position of those with less to offer humanity .....  | |||
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"Thanks for all the personal messages of being racist scum and i should burn in hell, by some ethnic persons. Why? for asking if he ever apologised for calling all whites devils in the 1980's. Ali also called other boxers "Dumb arse niggers" because they were darker skinned than him. He's the hero and I'm the hell burning racist. I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? ". I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. fair comment shame he never fought in Vietnam the same as he fought in the ring Why the fuck should he fight in an immoral war when his own country wouldn't allow him the same privileges as white men. See comments above!!! . And give the Nina Simone song "Strange Fruit" a listen whilst you're at it. .
That's not entirely accurate.
Colour segregation was abolished in the early 60s while Ali refused the draft in 67ish.
To add to that there was many white men also jailed for failing the draft!.
The Vietnamese war was only seen as "immoral" when they started sending home the body bags on mass, then it went through its epiphany of thought in the late 70s with most Hollywood films like stones platoon, deer hunter etc etc, i think the immoral message missed the point of the pointless message.
Of course today most films have reversed that message where now war can be seen as good and moral.
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If Ali taught us one thing, it's that were all the world's a stage and all the people are players... Regardless of what colour you are"some of this is true... but it needs some context... Ali was actually called up twice to be drafted... the first time was 3 years earlier in 64..... but at that time he was exempted because we wasn't deemed "mentally smart" enough to be conscripted... but as the losses mounted in the war... they lowered the standard and he was called up again... but by that time he had become an ordained minister in the muslim faith... and that was part of his arguement that he should again be exempted... they said no...... the supreme court of the united states ended up agreeing with ali 8-0 (Which is unheard of!!) | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then?
Perhaps over time he learned not too misinterpret what he was taught...
He's legacy shows thinking people evolve whilst narrow-minded thinking remains the fall back position of those with less to offer humanity ..... "Personally don't see how a religious person can be anything but narrow / closed minded. Ignoring science, thought, logic and thinking there is a magic man in the sky had got to be the complete opposite to enlightenment. | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? . I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes"Well blue eyed devil. Lol. I have to disagree. I find it totally abhorrent thst you only focus on some points, while choosing to ignore the overwhelming good that your race had and continues to do. Who banned slavery? Who banned segregation? Who fought for the enlightenment? Who gave the world medicines? Who gave the world democracy? No, far easier/convenient to focus on a few illegal guys with pillow cases on their heads........ please think. | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then?
Perhaps over time he learned not too misinterpret what he was taught...
He's legacy shows thinking people evolve whilst narrow-minded thinking remains the fall back position of those with less to offer humanity .....
Personally don't see how a religious person can be anything but narrow / closed minded.
Ignoring science, thought, logic and thinking there is a magic man in the sky had got to be the complete opposite to enlightenment. "You 're entitled to your opinion as was Ali. But unlike Ali I doubt your mutterings will be remembered for anything other than being a pile of shite!! | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? . I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes
Well blue eyed devil. Lol.
I have to disagree.
I find it totally abhorrent thst you only focus on some points, while choosing to ignore the overwhelming good that your race had and continues to do.
Who banned slavery?
Who banned segregation?
Who fought for the enlightenment?
Who gave the world medicines?
Who gave the world democracy?
No, far easier/convenient to focus on a few illegal guys with pillow cases on their heads........ please think."I don't think you can say one race or the other has done any of the things above ... unless you are reading the white male version of history. I think if you look into these things you will find that many people of different races fought for change and maybe because Caucasians were in power, they got the laws changed, but I doubt any of them would say they were solely responsible. Have you lived in America, OP? Or been married to an African American? Have your children been mocked and isolated here in the UK? Thought not .... | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
He said this decades ago. He was young. He was also living under segregation.
This post smacks of anti-black, anti-muslim prejudice. Just justifying your own biases.
Shame on you. .
It's ironic that on one side you've got people justifying their biases and on the other you've got people justifying Ali's biases!.
All I know is Ali was a wonderful wordsmith and a fantastic boxer but full of contradictions, did i like him sure, did I think he was the devil no, was he this champion of black people, in some ways yes in other ways no, he was certainly no ML king but he was a nice guy.
I don't have his posters on my wall, I don't hold him up as a guru or a God,i haven't watched his funeral and I also don't feel the need to either, it's that paradigm we live in that has to be good or bad, white or black, saint or sinner that quite frankly bemuses me"Erm neither do I. It wasn't a pro-Ali post. It was an anti racism post. THAT is my bias. And I'm proud of that. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies? "You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset. Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps. | |||
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"From a man who made his name punching other people into submission I can't really take anything he said with more than a pinch of salt. fair comment shame he never fought in Vietnam the same as he fought in the ring Why the fuck should he fight in an immoral war when his own country wouldn't allow him the same privileges as white men. See comments above!!! . And give the Nina Simone song "Strange Fruit" a listen whilst you're at it. .
That's not entirely accurate.
Colour segregation was abolished in the early 60s while Ali refused the draft in 67ish.
To add to that there was many white men also jailed for failing the draft!.
The Vietnamese war was only seen as "immoral" when they started sending home the body bags on mass, then it went through its epiphany of thought in the late 70s with most Hollywood films like stones platoon, deer hunter etc etc, i think the immoral message missed the point of the pointless message.
Of course today most films have reversed that message where now war can be seen as good and moral.
.
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If Ali taught us one thing, it's that were all the world's a stage and all the people are players... Regardless of what colour you are
some of this is true... but it needs some context...
Ali was actually called up twice to be drafted...
the first time was 3 years earlier in 64..... but at that time he was exempted because we wasn't deemed "mentally smart" enough to be conscripted...
but as the losses mounted in the war... they lowered the standard and he was called up again...
but by that time he had become an ordained minister in the muslim faith... and that was part of his arguement that he should again be exempted...
they said no...... the supreme court of the united states ended up agreeing with ali 8-0 (Which is unheard of!!)". My point was Ali was no different than alot of other men, white and black, they didn't want to go because they didn't want to get their heads blown off, that's why he just made shit up about Vietnam being a racist war nothing to do with racism nothing to do with being a Muslim minister of peace but willing to batter a fellow black guy senseless while calling him uncle tom.... He was just like everybody else,a guy with problems trying to make money and you can't make money when your dead! So he dodged the draft just like George bush....I guess they both found religion and redemption from their human frailties | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset.
Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps."You don't have to murder someone to know it's wrong. I think Ghandi got it right with his specific advocacy of non violent protest. Now there's a man to admire and respect, not some boxer. I've watched Ali's tirades on TV and I always found them highly irritating. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset.
Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps." | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? . I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes
Well blue eyed devil. Lol.
I have to disagree.
I find it totally abhorrent thst you only focus on some points, while choosing to ignore the overwhelming good that your race had and continues to do.
Who banned slavery?
Who banned segregation?
Who fought for the enlightenment?
Who gave the world medicines?
Who gave the world democracy?
No, far easier/convenient to focus on a few illegal guys with pillow cases on their heads........ please think.". Ah but like all races, we have good and evil, I have not ignored the amazing changes that our race has made to the world, as I would not also ignore the amazing changes other races have made, the discussion was, or at least your point was about one person, I merely suggested you take a closer look at why that person felt the way he did!!!! Clearly you have chosen not to this, I say this because if you had then you most certainly would not describe the KKK as a few guys with pillowcases on their heads, this statement in itself shoes the ignorance that you, yourself suffer from!!!!! Mrs blue eyes | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? . I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes
Well blue eyed devil. Lol.
I have to disagree.
I find it totally abhorrent thst you only focus on some points, while choosing to ignore the overwhelming good that your race had and continues to do.
Who banned slavery?
Who banned segregation?
Who fought for the enlightenment?
Who gave the world medicines?
Who gave the world democracy?
No, far easier/convenient to focus on a few illegal guys with pillow cases on their heads........ please think.. Ah but like all races, we have good and evil, I have not ignored the amazing changes that our race has made to the world, as I would not also ignore the amazing changes other races have made, the discussion was, or at least your point was about one person, I merely suggested you take a closer look at why that person felt the way he did!!!! Clearly you have chosen not to this, I say this because if you had then you most certainly would not describe the KKK as a few guys with pillowcases on their heads, this statement in itself shoes the ignorance that you, yourself suffer from!!!!! Mrs blue eyes". Shows not shoes | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset.
Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps.
You don't have to murder someone to know it's wrong. I think Ghandi got it right with his specific advocacy of non violent protest. Now there's a man to admire and respect, not some boxer. I've watched Ali's tirades on TV and I always found them highly irritating. "But there are people who don't think, murder is wrong .... from those who advocate the death penalty to those who kill for their beliefs ... including the KKK ... so its not always that cut and dry, is it? | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset.
Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps.
You don't have to murder someone to know it's wrong. I think Ghandi got it right with his specific advocacy of non violent protest. Now there's a man to admire and respect, not some boxer. I've watched Ali's tirades on TV and I always found them highly irritating. ". Gandhi wasn't non violent by choice perse, he was a Jain and jainists have a particular religion of peace, although he did have a penchant for sleeping with ten year old girls, so i wouldn't hold him to high up as an icon if I were you | |||
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"Is it worth mentioning that the use of "Black" to describe the ethnicity of [a huge proportion of the world's] people is utterly meaningless? Ethnically a chap or lady of Ugandan origin has more in common with people from West Asia than with someone from Kenyan origin despite them to our eye, looking similar. Therefore to judge a person's effectiveness as a human based on one tiny little genetic factor (skin pigmentation) shows that the person doing this has no fucking idea what they are doing or talking about. The amount of pigment in a person's skin has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than how much light reflects off of them. A society which bases a person's rights and privileges on the frequency of the light waves bouncing off their skin is utterly bereft of any sense, morality, or decency and should be held up as a global laughing stock. " Well worth reposting. | |||
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"I wasn't aware of that." . Gandhi was a bit of a "weirdo" and mother Teresa was alot of a "weirdo". I don't know why people hold up some figures as saintly, when in fact there just humans doing humanistic traits!. Redemption is a wonderful thing but then I'd suggest it's probably better to have as little to redeem as possible at the end | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam. Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. Most of the ethnic minorities were sent to Vietnam.. That's just not true, black people had no more likelihood of dying or serving in Vietnam than a white guy, over 70% of the men who fought were volunteers not drafted,10 to 12% were black, it may have been pointless from your point of view, but it did stop the rise of communism in the far east or at least hold it at bay, it may have been immoral(wars are in nature, awful) but in no way is there any facts to show it was majorly racist, I used to belive the same until I actually read about it!" *believe. I don't make things up to justify my point of view. It's well documented. I also read History at university. Most ethnic minority groups drafted during that period in time were sent to Vietnam. Not majorly racist ??? Omg I'd be embarrassed by your lack of understanding about the time we are talking about.
Pointless in my and millions of other people's point of view, including the Vets. Spread of communism?? What right did America have to DICTATE to other countries. Rhetorical question. Oh my days. | |||
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"All these points are very valid but of course his views back then were also very influenced by being brought up in one of the most racist parts of America during very troubled times that I'm sure I couldn't even imagine. let's not forget Ali grew up in an area where things like where you sat on a bus, the water fountain you used, where you ate, where you went to school and many other things were dictated by the colour of your skin. Add into that routine lynchings/executions by racist vigilantes and poor living conditions and health care. If you were brought up in the environment then surely your view of the the people who treat you and your family like this would be the same as Ali's" | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam. Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. Most of the ethnic minorities were sent to Vietnam.. That's just not true, black people had no more likelihood of dying or serving in Vietnam than a white guy, over 70% of the men who fought were volunteers not drafted,10 to 12% were black, it may have been pointless from your point of view, but it did stop the rise of communism in the far east or at least hold it at bay, it may have been immoral(wars are in nature, awful) but in no way is there any facts to show it was majorly racist, I used to belive the same until I actually read about it! *believe. I don't make things up to justify my point of view. It's well documented. I also read History at university. Most ethnic minority groups drafted during that period in time were sent to Vietnam. Not majorly racist ??? Omg I'd be embarrassed by your lack of understanding about the time we are talking about.
Pointless in my and millions of other people's point of view, including the Vets. Spread of communism?? What right did America have to DICTATE to other countries. Rhetorical question. Oh my days. ". Us Vietnam veterans association. . 88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian; 10.6% (275,000) were black; 1% belonged to other races. 86.3% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasian (includes Hispanics); 12.5% (7,241) were black; 1.2% belonged to other races. 170,000 Hispanics served in Vietnam; 3,070 (5.2% of total) died there. 70% of enlisted men killed were of North-west European descent. 86.8% of the men who were killed as a result of hostile action were Caucasian; 12.1% (5,711) were black; 1.1% belonged to other races. 14.6% (1,530) of non-combat deaths were among blacks. 34% of blacks who enlisted volunteered for the combat arms. Overall, blacks suffered 12.5% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the percentage of blacks of militar y age was 13.5% of the total population. Religion of Dead: Protestant -- 64.4%; Catholic -- 28.9%; other/none -- 6.7% SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS: | |||
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"I always find it hugely significant how the US drafted Elvis and sent him to West Germany yet would've sent Ali to Vietnam. Well that might be due to the fact that there was a huge US deployment in West Germany when Elvis was drafted and a huge deployment in Vietnam when Ali was called up. It's not even certain he would have been sent to Vietnam. Most of the ethnic minorities were sent to Vietnam.. That's just not true, black people had no more likelihood of dying or serving in Vietnam than a white guy, over 70% of the men who fought were volunteers not drafted,10 to 12% were black, it may have been pointless from your point of view, but it did stop the rise of communism in the far east or at least hold it at bay, it may have been immoral(wars are in nature, awful) but in no way is there any facts to show it was majorly racist, I used to belive the same until I actually read about it! *believe. I don't make things up to justify my point of view. It's well documented. I also read History at university. Most ethnic minority groups drafted during that period in time were sent to Vietnam. Not majorly racist ??? Omg I'd be embarrassed by your lack of understanding about the time we are talking about.
Pointless in my and millions of other people's point of view, including the Vets. Spread of communism?? What right did America have to DICTATE to other countries. Rhetorical question. Oh my days. . Us Vietnam veterans association.
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88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian; 10.6% (275,000) were black; 1% belonged to other races.
86.3% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasian (includes Hispanics);
12.5% (7,241) were black; 1.2% belonged to other races.
170,000 Hispanics served in Vietnam; 3,070 (5.2% of total) died there.
70% of enlisted men killed were of North-west European descent.
86.8% of the men who were killed as a result of hostile action were Caucasian; 12.1% (5,711) were black; 1.1% belonged to other races.
14.6% (1,530) of non-combat deaths were among blacks.
34% of blacks who enlisted volunteered for the combat arms.
Overall, blacks suffered 12.5% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the percentage of blacks of militar y age was 13.5% of the total population.
Religion of Dead: Protestant -- 64.4%; Catholic -- 28.9%; other/none -- 6.7% SOCIO-ECONOMIC STATUS: "Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! " . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable" You have the right to believe that. Just like people believe in the Loch Ness monster. Restrictions on here prevent me from saying what I really think of you so I'll leave it there. My little window on life is a lot more enlightened than yours. As I said earlier you can only dream of achieving a tenth of the things Muhammad Ali did. Yet you think you can comment on things you clearly know nothing about. Carry on | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable You have the right to believe that. Just like people believe in the Loch Ness monster. Restrictions on here prevent me from saying what I really think of you so I'll leave it there. My little window on life is a lot more enlightened than yours. As I said earlier you can only dream of achieving a tenth of the things Muhammad Ali did. Yet you think you can comment on things you clearly know nothing about. Carry on ". You keep your hero's I'll keep mine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Benavidez. If you want inspiration have a look how he got his medal of honour!! | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable" Sorry pal, you are talking utter shite from one end to the other. | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable You have the right to believe that. Just like people believe in the Loch Ness monster. Restrictions on here prevent me from saying what I really think of you so I'll leave it there. My little window on life is a lot more enlightened than yours. As I said earlier you can only dream of achieving a tenth of the things Muhammad Ali did. Yet you think you can comment on things you clearly know nothing about. Carry on .
You keep your hero's I'll keep mine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Benavidez.
If you want inspiration have a look how he got his medal of honour!!"This thread was regarding Muhammad Ali. Your pathetic attempt to discredit him has nothing to do with anyone else. I don't use wiki advised not to as it's full of incorrect information posted by anyone.
I didn't say anywhere he was a hero of mine so don't go putting words in my mouth AGAIN. I still think the likes of you aren't fit to comment, you've clearly demonstrated your level here.
Wikipedia ffs | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
" | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You do realize he said those things 50 years ago. I'm not saying what he said is right. I just want to judge him on his lifetime body of humanitarian work.
"well said | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then?
Perhaps over time he learned not too misinterpret what he was taught...
He's legacy shows thinking people evolve whilst narrow-minded thinking remains the fall back position of those with less to offer humanity .....
Personally don't see how a religious person can be anything but narrow / closed minded.
Ignoring science, thought, logic and thinking there is a magic man in the sky had got to be the complete opposite to enlightenment.
You 're entitled to your opinion as was Ali. But unlike Ali I doubt your mutterings will be remembered for anything other than being a pile of shite!!" | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then?
Perhaps over time he learned not too misinterpret what he was taught...
He's legacy shows thinking people evolve whilst narrow-minded thinking remains the fall back position of those with less to offer humanity .....
Personally don't see how a religious person can be anything but narrow / closed minded.
Ignoring science, thought, logic and thinking there is a magic man in the sky had got to be the complete opposite to enlightenment. "I salute your willingness to acknowledge that you are unable to comprehend something you can neither prove or disprove..
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable Sorry pal, you are talking utter shite from one end to the other." . That's an opinion, your entitled to it, those statistics are from official us veterans association, it's not shite it's factual, no minorities were forced into Vietnam than in any greater number than any other race!. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
" | |||
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" I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? . I suggested that you may want to do a little research into why he may have felt the way he did, I suggested you take a look at him growing up, his town, his colour and the KKK, and then maybe you will find some understanding in why he felt the way he did, I find it difficult to understand anyone who could not find a little empathy for anyone who had suffered or seen the kinds of suffering that was going on and still does go on at the hands evil, clearly you do not wish to try to understand, and for that I find your comments albeit your freedom of speech, of which you are entitled, totally abhorrent!!!! Mrs blue eyes
Well blue eyed devil. Lol.
I have to disagree.
I find it totally abhorrent thst you only focus on some points, while choosing to ignore the overwhelming good that your race had and continues to do.
Who banned slavery?
Who banned segregation?
Who fought for the enlightenment?
Who gave the world medicines?
Who gave the world democracy?
No, far easier/convenient to focus on a few illegal guys with pillow cases on their heads........ please think."Who banned slavery?!
The abolition of slavery (in this context as slavery still exists) was achieved by paying compensation and ensuring black people remained subjugated to white people. No one compensated black people for having been enslaved.
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
You haven't been what he's been through. You haven't seen what he's seen . You haven't endured what he had to. For that you should be grateful. When his environment changed so did his mindset.
Until you've walked in his shoe don't judge his steps.
You don't have to murder someone to know it's wrong. I think Ghandi got it right with his specific advocacy of non violent protest. Now there's a man to admire and respect, not some boxer. I've watched Ali's tirades on TV and I always found them highly irritating. .
Gandhi wasn't non violent by choice perse, he was a Jain and jainists have a particular religion of peace, although he did have a penchant for sleeping with ten year old girls, so i wouldn't hold him to high up as an icon if I were you"And let's not ignore his views on Muslims or his exclusion of the dalits from the INC. I still hold his achievements as that but blindly accepting people as saints doesn't stand up to scrutiny. | |||
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"Has anyone heard any mention of the bigoted, race hatred spouted by that saint Ali bloke? I've not heard a single objection to his outrageous rants that all white people are evil. That whites are the devil. Did he ever apologies?
If a man at the end of his life thinks the same as he thought when he was young, his life was wasted,,,
People make mistakes..... Ali made mistakes ....
But his influence has provided humanity with more positives than negatives,
" | |||
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"Thanks for all the personal messages of being racist scum and i should burn in hell, by some ethnic persons. Why? for asking if he ever apologised for calling all whites devils in the 1980's. Ali also called other boxers "Dumb arse niggers" because they were darker skinned than him. He's the hero and I'm the hell burning racist. I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? "I think you are an incurable zealot...not sure what your game plan is? Are you for real? | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable Sorry pal, you are talking utter shite from one end to the other.. That's an opinion, your entitled to it, those statistics are from official us veterans association, it's not shite it's factual, no minorities were forced into Vietnam than in any greater number than any other race!. " They would say that. Wouldn't they? Anyway, Ali said he had no quarrel with the Vietnamese. He did have quarrel with his own country which was at that time a racist regime. Hence not fighting. Your point is shite and your racism is shite. | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable Sorry pal, you are talking utter shite from one end to the other.. That's an opinion, your entitled to it, those statistics are from official us veterans association, it's not shite it's factual, no minorities were forced into Vietnam than in any greater number than any other race!. They would say that. Wouldn't they? Anyway, Ali said he had no quarrel with the Vietnamese. He did have quarrel with his own country which was at that time a racist regime. Hence not fighting. Your point is shite and your racism is shite." he hasn't even got the intelligence to veil it and using Wiki as a source | |||
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"In my experience, white people who are keen to expose examples of racist bigotry amongst black people towards whites are very rarely doing so because they want to see an end to racist bigotry. Generally it seems to be more often motivated by a feeling that they are unable to get away with being similarly racist towards black people themselves. Funny that. " Run that by me again. I think I get what you said, but can't really believe you said that ... | |||
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"In my experience, white people who are keen to expose examples of racist bigotry amongst black people towards whites are very rarely doing so because they want to see an end to racist bigotry. Generally it seems to be more often motivated by a feeling that they are unable to get away with being similarly racist towards black people themselves. Funny that. Run that by me again. I think I get what you said, but can't really believe you said that ..." I wouldn't bother asking for an intelligent reply. It's like playing chess with a pigeon, in the end the pigeon will shit on the board and fly off, as demonstrated by the other clown earlier. | |||
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" Run that by me again. I think I get what you said, but can't really believe you said that ... I wouldn't bother asking for an intelligent reply. It's like playing chess with a pigeon, in the end the pigeon will shit on the board and fly off, as demonstrated by the other clown earlier. " . You can't debate with children, in the end they throw themselves on the floor and scream alot!.  | |||
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"Bloody Hell Doorsy, you are on the proper wind up today. Not everything in the public consciousness has to be torn apart - some things just are. Ali was the first black man and first Muslim that many white working class British people hero-worshipped. Why are you upset by that? You are a saucy fellow, and no mistake! " . I'm challenging peoples firmly held beliefs, Im not purposely trolling people. Not one person has complained about me "slandering" Gandhi?. It's almost like the messiah complex that humans have, the minute Diana died if you said one truthful thing that made her "look bad" ... Oh the screaming and the whaling.... That woman was an inspiration to me, she did this that and the other... And yadda yadda yadda, until next year, when they find there new messiah and we go full circle. Maybe I'm just grabbing onto Ali shirttails who spent most of his life saying controversial things and saying controversial things myself! Who knows, who cares, it's just a conversation on a thread on a swingers site | |||
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"Clearly OP has not seen 12 Years A slave but of course that is black rascist bigotry against whites. He has probably not heard of the Tuskagee experiment. Has America apologised for slavery and its effects?" Probably the most sensible quote I've seen on this thread | |||
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" Run that by me again. I think I get what you said, but can't really believe you said that ... I wouldn't bother asking for an intelligent reply. It's like playing chess with a pigeon, in the end the pigeon will shit on the board and fly off, as demonstrated by the other clown earlier. . You can't debate with children, in the end they throw themselves on the floor and scream alot!. "Yeah I noticed. Sssshhhhhhh. | |||
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"Thanks for all the personal messages of being racist scum and i should burn in hell, by some ethnic persons. Why? for asking if he ever apologised for calling all whites devils in the 1980's. Ali also called other boxers "Dumb arse niggers" because they were darker skinned than him. He's the hero and I'm the hell burning racist. I understand from this thread, he later said they were the views of The Nation of Islam. Did he disown those teachings then? "Interesting you note that the abuse you have endured is from the 'ethnics'. Again, I think we both know that isn't true,from what I read you're getting hammered by everyone for chatting pup. You clearly are one of them aren't you? | |||
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" Anyone can find statistics to suit themselves. Note that I said ETHNIC MINORITIES!!!!! . Quite frankly, your talking clap trap, made up nonsense that fits in with that little window you call life, if that's what you want to belive, fine go ahead, I'm just saying there's no/very very little evidence to suggest Vietnam was a racist war!. Ali made all that shit up because he didn't want to get his head blown off(a perfectly normal human reaction) and he didn't want to appear a draft dodger. Being the wonderful wordsmith he was, he made it sound oh so believable You have the right to believe that. Just like people believe in the Loch Ness monster. Restrictions on here prevent me from saying what I really think of you so I'll leave it there. My little window on life is a lot more enlightened than yours. As I said earlier you can only dream of achieving a tenth of the things Muhammad Ali did. Yet you think you can comment on things you clearly know nothing about. Carry on "I love this lady | |||
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