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The Debt industry

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So, anyone who watches This Week Tonight on HBO will know about a story that it's host, John Oliver, ran about the debt collection industry in America and about how awful it is.

Part of what makes it so bad is that companies who own debt very often sell off that debt to other companies for a fraction of its worth and then write off that debt to the government on their taxes.

So what did Jon Oliver do? He bought over $15 million in medical debt for half a cent on the dollar, amounting to only $60,000 and forgave all of the debt.

Apparently there are organizations doing this on a mass basis, showing how twisted the debt market can be.

Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to have as it's an industry that continues to get complaints in the UK as well. I think governments (both US and UK) should do something to further regulate this industry - currently it is parasitic and opportunistic. What do you all think about this story generally?

(For those interested, the Guardian has an interesting piece about this on their website as well.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused. "

Sorry, yeah. He bought it up just like a debt collector would, but instead of trying to collect the money he forgave the debt so none of it was owed. Sorry for my poor explanation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused. "

That's precisely what he did, I've already talked about this twice today.

As a piece of television it was very powerful but as a piece of satirical journalism it was incredible

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The whole economy is parasitic. That's basically how it works.

But yeah it's not on that someone can even profit from debt when someone cannot afford to pay it back.

Found out less than 2 weeks ago that i owe tax credits from 2011. Tax credits never told me about it in 5 years, some debt collector has sent me 3 letters already in 2 weeks of taking that on.

I'm ignoring them until they take it to court and gonna ask them why i owe a debt company money. Done this before with council tax and i know how not to have to pay court costs as well. Play them at their own game.

I like what that guy did and saw it on fb.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused.

Sorry, yeah. He bought it up just like a debt collector would, but instead of trying to collect the money he forgave the debt so none of it was owed. Sorry for my poor explanation. "

I'm sure your explanation was fine, just me being dopey.

Ooh I like this story. Good for him.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Fair play to the guy in doing what he did..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused.

Sorry, yeah. He bought it up just like a debt collector would, but instead of trying to collect the money he forgave the debt so none of it was owed. Sorry for my poor explanation. "

Thats good. Depending on who saved on the debt. Hoping its actual individuals that need the money rather than big corp.

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

The US debt was medical bills so the cross over isn't as clear to UK. Agree that pay day loan firms need more attention how they work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The banking world is based on debt and build on contracts.

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

One of the main problems with the pay day loans sector is the APR charged on repayments and how it is not regulated or capped so it becomes too easy for it to spiral out of control or run into silly amounts. Also there doesn't seem to be a proper and approved system for calculating the percentage so in theory companies are charging whatever interest they choose to.

Although often these companies fail to carry out proper checks on whom they are lending to and their ability to make repayments.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice"

Well, what is interesting about it in the US at least is that it is very often medical debt, so you don't really have a choice as to take on the debt or not. Medical debt is not releasable in bancrupcy in america either, so you're stuck with it forever.

It's not the loaning the money that is parasitic, it's the means of getting it back. The companies that own the original debt write it off on their taxes and sell the debt interest on for pennies. Then debt collectors call your friends and family to humiliate you into paying. You don't even own them the money, really. They just bought a tradable interest in your debt.

It would be different if the original company had its original interest and dealt with the debtor on a customer basis, but that isn't the case. So the people buying the debt interest are parasites in the sense that they are living off of other companies' debt interests.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's all shite from fractional reserves..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What I find crazy is that biotech/medical comapanies that make "cancer drugs" are floated on the new york stock market. It is billion dollar industry. No you know why they will never find a "cure" there is to much profit to be made.

You can make money out of everything and anything on the stock market.

If you invested in pound land in 2008, you'd be a millionare by now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Capitalism wouldn't function without debt.

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Or work houses

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By *eccymanMan
over a year ago

Gateshead


"The whole economy is parasitic. That's basically how it works.

But yeah it's not on that someone can even profit from debt when someone cannot afford to pay it back.

Found out less than 2 weeks ago that i owe tax credits from 2011. Tax credits never told me about it in 5 years, some debt collector has sent me 3 letters already in 2 weeks of taking that on.

I'm ignoring them until they take it to court and gonna ask them why i owe a debt company money. Done this before with council tax and i know how not to have to pay court costs as well. Play them at their own game.

I like what that guy did and saw it on fb."

Don't acknowledge the debt for six years and then it becomes statute barred. Basically it means that whoever you owe money to has had six years to get it back and the law says that's long enough. If debt collectors continue to harass you you can sue them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice"

Pork bellies and orange juice? You've been watching Trading Places haven't you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Or work houses "

Ahhh, the good ol' days...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So, anyone who watches This Week Tonight on HBO will know about a story that it's host, John Oliver, ran about the debt collection industry in America and about how awful it is.

Part of what makes it so bad is that companies who own debt very often sell off that debt to other companies for a fraction of its worth and then write off that debt to the government on their taxes.

So what did Jon Oliver do? He bought over $15 million in medical debt for half a cent on the dollar, amounting to only $60,000 and forgave all of the debt.

Apparently there are organizations doing this on a mass basis, showing how twisted the debt market can be.

Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to have as it's an industry that continues to get complaints in the UK as well. I think governments (both US and UK) should do something to further regulate this industry - currently it is parasitic and opportunistic. What do you all think about this story generally?

(For those interested, the Guardian has an interesting piece about this on their website as well.)"

He goes to the top of my "like" list.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice"

I like the link to trading places there, very good

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Capitalism wouldn't function without debt. "

Thank you

It's not that hard to figure out. For the many to live comfortably in the first world. Millions have to suffer in the third world...

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

I'm a debt collector but for a government organisation so I'm recovering tax payers money.

I can't bear these companies that buy up debt - they behave so aggressively whereas I have to think of the person, why they owe the debt & what I can do to get them to make repayments without taking them to Court.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So, anyone who watches This Week Tonight on HBO will know about a story that it's host, John Oliver, ran about the debt collection industry in America and about how awful it is.

Part of what makes it so bad is that companies who own debt very often sell off that debt to other companies for a fraction of its worth and then write off that debt to the government on their taxes.

So what did Jon Oliver do? He bought over $15 million in medical debt for half a cent on the dollar, amounting to only $60,000 and forgave all of the debt.

Apparently there are organizations doing this on a mass basis, showing how twisted the debt market can be.

Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to have as it's an industry that continues to get complaints in the UK as well. I think governments (both US and UK) should do something to further regulate this industry - currently it is parasitic and opportunistic. What do you all think about this story generally?

(For those interested, the Guardian has an interesting piece about this on their website as well.)"

I am completely lost as to how that works commercially.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice"

The parasitic thing is selling the debt on, generally the debt has been taken out by an individual who doesn't get credit easily anyway. They struggle with the original repayments, then the new debt collector whacks charges on top, ups the interest. Nothing like the agreement that was signed originally. It's a very unregulated market.

Loan Sharks still exist, payday lending has atrocious APR. Desperate people do desperate things and they rely on that. So for me, it's morally very wrong.

Credit Unions are the way forward. A much fairer way to borrow money.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can thank the British Empire.

Capitalism - Economic slavery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Don't acknowledge the debt for six years and then it becomes statute barred. Basically it means that whoever you owe money to has had six years to get it back and the law says that's long enough. If debt collectors continue to harass you you can sue them. "

Not quite true - if there has been no contact it becomes statute barred - if they have been actively chasing you and u dont pay that doesn't mean it suddenly goes away. And some debts statute is 20 yrs not 6.

Always take advise from professionals in the industry like Local authority debt counsellors, cab or debt agencies.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"So, anyone who watches This Week Tonight on HBO will know about a story that it's host, John Oliver, ran about the debt collection industry in America and about how awful it is.

Part of what makes it so bad is that companies who own debt very often sell off that debt to other companies for a fraction of its worth and then write off that debt to the government on their taxes.

So what did Jon Oliver do? He bought over $15 million in medical debt for half a cent on the dollar, amounting to only $60,000 and forgave all of the debt.

Apparently there are organizations doing this on a mass basis, showing how twisted the debt market can be.

Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to have as it's an industry that continues to get complaints in the UK as well. I think governments (both US and UK) should do something to further regulate this industry - currently it is parasitic and opportunistic. What do you all think about this story generally?

(For those interested, the Guardian has an interesting piece about this on their website as well.)"

Yes I run a company

People have stolen from me

Not sure why I should pay tax on money I haven't received ?

It is my opinion that those respectable companies who lend money at fair rates not referring to the loan shark pay day lenders

Are criticised considerably more disproportionately than the thousands who flippantly borrow every penny they can

Now I'm not saying hsbc does not have a duty of care but mr mrs miss I can work an I phone and am socially aware enough that I know what brand new car I want also should have the wit and intelligence not to borrow beyond their means , and that includes having a provision for a job loss

I closed a business that gave credit this put 4 people out of a job , because I took the losses as I hate debt collectors

Those people stole, pure and simple and they stole from the employees as they lost jobs

There are indeed seductive lenders preying on the greedy new fsa rules are ridiculously strict

After 15 minutes of explaining the consequences of undertaking a credit agreement all most clients do is blindly sign not caring or wanting to

If we were to treat the public all as the foolish lowest common denominator lending money would be banned , I've known a scores default after 3 months and bad risk pay on time every time for decades

The worst thieves have not been the poorest but middle incomes wanting it all

To be clear

I'm not saying all lenders are faultless

And I'm certainly not saying all those who fall by no fault of their own into debt are thieves or responsible for their unfortunate predicament however I am saying contrary to the perpetual single sided perspective some due to greed arrogance and nonchalance have constructed their own predicaments and their lack of payment due to their own financial misconduct also affects pay and jobs of innocent people not just the top dog bank bosses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What I find crazy is that biotech/medical comapanies that make "cancer drugs" are floated on the new york stock market. It is billion dollar industry. No you know why they will never find a "cure" there is to much profit to be made.

You can make money out of everything and anything on the stock market.

If you invested in pound land in 2008, you'd be a millionare by now."

Big pharma can't profit from healthy individuals..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Little Sam, in Vietnam is making your £500 dress for 50p per-day which cost £2 to make.

I found it sickening to know that a top football in europe had there jersey made by NIKE yet they promoting UNICEF at the sametime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

The parasitic thing is selling the debt on, generally the debt has been taken out by an individual who doesn't get credit easily anyway. They struggle with the original repayments, then the new debt collector whacks charges on top, ups the interest. Nothing like the agreement that was signed originally. It's a very unregulated market.

Loan Sharks still exist, payday lending has atrocious APR. Desperate people do desperate things and they rely on that. So for me, it's morally very wrong.

Credit Unions are the way forward. A much fairer way to borrow money.

Sarah "

Here is the problem the burrower has bad credit. The credit unions or banks won't give him a loan because of his/her bad credit...

But they need money fast and has proven by their bad credit history. They don't pay back loans.

So the loan companies take risks, loan him/her money. Charging a high interest rate to cover their risk plus make money to pay overhead.

The burrower doesn't pay back the loan And the loan companies are parasites.....

Please try to run a financial company then get back to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you buy toothpaste, shampoo?

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By *eccymanMan
over a year ago

Gateshead


"

Don't acknowledge the debt for six years and then it becomes statute barred. Basically it means that whoever you owe money to has had six years to get it back and the law says that's long enough. If debt collectors continue to harass you you can sue them.

Not quite true - if there has been no contact it becomes statute barred - if they have been actively chasing you and u dont pay that doesn't mean it suddenly goes away. And some debts statute is 20 yrs not 6.

Always take advise from professionals in the industry like Local authority debt counsellors, cab or debt agencies."

Actively chasing you is a loose term. If you've been on the electoral register and paying tax you are easily traceable and thus can be taken to court for recovery of debt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" The worst thieves have not been the poorest but middle incomes wanting it all

To be clear

I'm not saying all lenders are faultless

And I'm certainly not saying all those who fall by no fault of their own into debt are thieves or responsible for their unfortunate predicament however I am saying contrary to the perpetual single sided perspective some due to greed arrogance and nonchalance have constructed their own predicaments and their lack of payment due to their own financial misconduct also affects pay and jobs of innocent people not just the top dog bank bosses

"

We do live in a have it now pay later society. But - lending, mortgages in particular are much more rigorous now. You have to jump through lots of hoops to get one, esp as a first time buyer.

And yes, people are responsible for themselves, but the lenders don't exactly look at making a tiny bit less profit. They squeeze the last penny out of borrowers. Isn't Lloyds still owned by the tax payer? Or partially ? So we borrow from there, we rescued it, but we pay loads of interest on any borrowing. Now that's arse about face really!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a myth. In the UK, there's no universal credit rating or score, and there's no blacklist of banned people.

Credit scoring is about trying to predict your future behaviour

It's as much about 'will you make the lender money' as it is about risk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

The parasitic thing is selling the debt on, generally the debt has been taken out by an individual who doesn't get credit easily anyway. They struggle with the original repayments, then the new debt collector whacks charges on top, ups the interest. Nothing like the agreement that was signed originally. It's a very unregulated market.

Loan Sharks still exist, payday lending has atrocious APR. Desperate people do desperate things and they rely on that. So for me, it's morally very wrong.

Credit Unions are the way forward. A much fairer way to borrow money.

Sarah

Here is the problem the burrower has bad credit. The credit unions or banks won't give him a loan because of his/her bad credit...

But they need money fast and has proven by their bad credit history. They don't pay back loans.

So the loan companies take risks, loan him/her money. Charging a high interest rate to cover their risk plus make money to pay overhead.

The burrower doesn't pay back the loan And the loan companies are parasites.....

Please try to run a financial company then get back to me "

I worked for one of the largest for a long time.

The loan companies must write into their business plan that some won't pay it, it will be a calculated risk. So they up the payments across the board to account for this. I bet the debts get written off for some tax benefit too. Debt makes money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is a myth. In the UK, there's no universal credit rating or score, and there's no blacklist of banned people.

Credit scoring is about trying to predict your future behaviour

It's as much about 'will you make the lender money' as it is about risk.

"

Anyone who has credit has a credit rating. If you have a mobile phone contract you will have a credit rating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you buy toothpaste, shampoo? "

How much research & development goes into cosmetics and consumables such as those vs pharmaceuticals?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice"

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also to add I love the show and never miss it always interesting and enlightening subject matters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

The parasitic thing is selling the debt on, generally the debt has been taken out by an individual who doesn't get credit easily anyway. They struggle with the original repayments, then the new debt collector whacks charges on top, ups the interest. Nothing like the agreement that was signed originally. It's a very unregulated market.

Loan Sharks still exist, payday lending has atrocious APR. Desperate people do desperate things and they rely on that. So for me, it's morally very wrong.

Credit Unions are the way forward. A much fairer way to borrow money.

Sarah

Here is the problem the burrower has bad credit. The credit unions or banks won't give him a loan because of his/her bad credit...

But they need money fast and has proven by their bad credit history. They don't pay back loans.

So the loan companies take risks, loan him/her money. Charging a high interest rate to cover their risk plus make money to pay overhead.

The burrower doesn't pay back the loan And the loan companies are parasites.....

Please try to run a financial company then get back to me

I worked for one of the largest for a long time.

The loan companies must write into their business plan that some won't pay it, it will be a calculated risk. So they up the payments across the board to account for this. I bet the debts get written off for some tax benefit too. Debt makes money."

Yes you're correct... I'm not fighting with you. I just don't like the fact people make it seem these companies are holding a gun to somebody's head to take a loan....

This is the problem I'm finding with Americans. People take a loan. Student or payday.... Use the money. Then it's not fair they have to pay it back , the company tricked me...

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

last week tonight is one of the best shows on television...

he manages to do different stories almost turns journalism into brilliant pieces of comedy with a serious message...

you should a look at some of the pieces on youtube, he has done on fifa, the tabacco industry, edward snowden, and donald trump (the 20 minute piece he does where he rips trumps idea of building the wall is epic!)

he even created his own mega-church in one episode

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

p.s in this country last week tonight shows on sky atlantic normally after the evening showing of game of thrones....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He forgave the debt like wrote it off so people didn't owe it anymore?

Sorry I'm confused.

That's precisely what he did, I've already talked about this twice today.

As a piece of television it was very powerful but as a piece of satirical journalism it was incredible "

Good choice of words, echoes my thoughts too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off."

If you could not have got the money, you would have been homeless?

You were offered the money and accepted it on the terms it was offered.

Would you have preferred not to have been offered the money - or just a lower interest rate?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Yes you're correct... I'm not fighting with you. I just don't like the fact people make it seem these companies are holding a gun to somebody's head to take a loan....

This is the problem I'm finding with Americans. People take a loan. Student or payday.... Use the money. Then it's not fair they have to pay it back , the company tricked me..."

I'm debating, not fighting.

They just need to make it simpler for borrowers to understand, over here, there are pages of terms and conditions when you sign for loans. Not many, maybe the odd one, would read it page for page.

And the most unregulated are those who lend to those with the worse credit ratings. Those often with the least pay the highest interest.,

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here


"What I find crazy is that biotech/medical comapanies that make "cancer drugs" are floated on the new york stock market. It is billion dollar industry. No you know why they will never find a "cure" there is to much profit to be made.

You can make money out of everything and anything on the stock market.

If you invested in pound land in 2008, you'd be a millionare by now."

Not sure how that would have been possible as it didn't float until 2014!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's easy for almost anyone to buy this debt in the cheap. And then use atrocious methods to force people to pay the inflated figures. Even though the buyer never 'lost' the full sum of the debt they purchased they go after it as it's huge profits.

It's great that this health debt has been written off. Another sign that we don't want any aspect of this privAtised he health system in the UK!

The shows been covered in US news for a couple of days. If Hilary Clinton focused on stuff like this it might improve her standing.

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By *ax777Man
over a year ago

Not here


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

The parasitic thing is selling the debt on, generally the debt has been taken out by an individual who doesn't get credit easily anyway. They struggle with the original repayments, then the new debt collector whacks charges on top, ups the interest. Nothing like the agreement that was signed originally. It's a very unregulated market.

Loan Sharks still exist, payday lending has atrocious APR. Desperate people do desperate things and they rely on that. So for me, it's morally very wrong.

Credit Unions are the way forward. A much fairer way to borrow money.

Sarah

Here is the problem the burrower has bad credit. The credit unions or banks won't give him a loan because of his/her bad credit...

But they need money fast and has proven by their bad credit history. They don't pay back loans.

So the loan companies take risks, loan him/her money. Charging a high interest rate to cover their risk plus make money to pay overhead.

The burrower doesn't pay back the loan And the loan companies are parasites.....

Please try to run a financial company then get back to me

I worked for one of the largest for a long time.

The loan companies must write into their business plan that some won't pay it, it will be a calculated risk. So they up the payments across the board to account for this. I bet the debts get written off for some tax benefit too. Debt makes money."

All companies can write bad debts off against tax but the write off is a 100 % cost to the business less the tax saving of 20%. Therefore it's still an 80% additional cost to the business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off.

If you could not have got the money, you would have been homeless?

You were offered the money and accepted it on the terms it was offered.

Would you have preferred not to have been offered the money - or just a lower interest rate?"

No I just accepted it as I had no option but I didnt want 5k I went for £500 but that wasn't what they would offer which is madness to me. I was fine in the end but giving 5 grand loan instead of just £500 meant they got 10x the interest which means they were essentially trying to make more money like a parasite the original point. Oh and then add on the ppi I "had" to take out or I wouldn't be approved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off.

If you could not have got the money, you would have been homeless?

You were offered the money and accepted it on the terms it was offered.

Would you have preferred not to have been offered the money - or just a lower interest rate?

No I just accepted it as I had no option but I didnt want 5k I went for £500 but that wasn't what they would offer which is madness to me. I was fine in the end but giving 5 grand loan instead of just £500 meant they got 10x the interest which means they were essentially trying to make more money like a parasite the original point. Oh and then add on the ppi I "had" to take out or I wouldn't be approved. "

You would have preffered not to accept it?

No one forced you to accept that agreement. You had the option to look elsewhere.

It is a market. It is not a charity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So, anyone who watches This Week Tonight on HBO will know about a story that it's host, John Oliver, ran about the debt collection industry in America and about how awful it is.

Part of what makes it so bad is that companies who own debt very often sell off that debt to other companies for a fraction of its worth and then write off that debt to the government on their taxes.

So what did Jon Oliver do? He bought over $15 million in medical debt for half a cent on the dollar, amounting to only $60,000 and forgave all of the debt.

Apparently there are organizations doing this on a mass basis, showing how twisted the debt market can be.

Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting discussion to have as it's an industry that continues to get complaints in the UK as well. I think governments (both US and UK) should do something to further regulate this industry - currently it is parasitic and opportunistic. What do you all think about this story generally?

(For those interested, the Guardian has an interesting piece about this on their website as well.)

I am completely lost as to how that works commercially."

It doesn't.

He not doing it for financial gain.

He's doing it because he's a decent human being who can afford to help where he can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Little Sam, in Vietnam is making your £500 dress for 50p per-day which cost £2 to make.

I found it sickening to know that a top football in europe had there jersey made by NIKE yet they promoting UNICEF at the sametime. "

If you're talking about Barcelona they actually pay unicef to wear the logo on their club shirts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off.

If you could not have got the money, you would have been homeless?

You were offered the money and accepted it on the terms it was offered.

Would you have preferred not to have been offered the money - or just a lower interest rate?

No I just accepted it as I had no option but I didnt want 5k I went for £500 but that wasn't what they would offer which is madness to me. I was fine in the end but giving 5 grand loan instead of just £500 meant they got 10x the interest which means they were essentially trying to make more money like a parasite the original point. Oh and then add on the ppi I "had" to take out or I wouldn't be approved.

You would have preffered not to accept it?

No one forced you to accept that agreement. You had the option to look elsewhere.

It is a market. It is not a charity."

I agree that you have the choice to say no and honoured my agreement but I had a lack of time and knowledge at that age and thank god payday loans didn't exist at that time too. I genuinely believe they could of offered me the overdraft or the smaller amount in loan form but chose to take advantage of the situation which makes it parasitic in my eyes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is so parasitic in a business transaction of lending money to someone who wants to borrow?

When you look at it in the cold light of day, money is a comedy just like guns and butter. Or pork bellies and concentrated frozen orange juice

I agree to a point, when I was 22 I split from my gf who I was living with. I had to move out and went to the bank explained I just wanted an overdraft (£500) for 2 months to cover a deposit for a new flat (no option to go back to family etc) bare in mind I was in a vulnerable position mentally due to a break up the sales advisor was aware of and also being very young and naive, but had amazing credit they said no to an overdraft but I could have a £5000 loan over 3 years. Now I entered the agreement and did pay it off but I would say the loan was offered unethically and was praying on someone, I imagine this happens often and leads to people taking loans that they eventually can't pay off.

If you could not have got the money, you would have been homeless?

You were offered the money and accepted it on the terms it was offered.

Would you have preferred not to have been offered the money - or just a lower interest rate?

No I just accepted it as I had no option but I didnt want 5k I went for £500 but that wasn't what they would offer which is madness to me. I was fine in the end but giving 5 grand loan instead of just £500 meant they got 10x the interest which means they were essentially trying to make more money like a parasite the original point. Oh and then add on the ppi I "had" to take out or I wouldn't be approved.

You would have preffered not to accept it?

No one forced you to accept that agreement. You had the option to look elsewhere.

It is a market. It is not a charity.

I agree that you have the choice to say no and honoured my agreement but I had a lack of time and knowledge at that age and thank god payday loans didn't exist at that time too. I genuinely believe they could of offered me the overdraft or the smaller amount in loan form but chose to take advantage of the situation which makes it parasitic in my eyes"

"Chose" is the operative word.

Bad choice? Maybe. Only choice? No. Ill informed choice? Only if you didn't check what else was on offer.

Don't blame the market for your choice.

If you can offer loans at a better rate, then set up a business to do so, and you may make a fortune. Then again, there are many costs that you will have to take into account, including the loss of people defaulting on loans.

I am no fan of Wonga. But I am not a fan of abrogating personal responsibility either. You know the cost of repayment.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Shakespeare

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I get what people are saying about people taking on the debt in the first place. Maybe the reason why I feel differently is because I think of it mostly in terms of medical debt and anyone who has lived in the US will know what I mean.

Many people in the US who have crippling debt from medical bills actually had insurance when they incurred the bills (insurance companies only pay what they feel like paying on a claim, everything else the hospital can and does still come after you for).

The debt John Oliver forgave was all medical debt. In most cases you don't choose to take on medical debt. So I guess I just see it from that angle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I get what people are saying about people taking on the debt in the first place. Maybe the reason why I feel differently is because I think of it mostly in terms of medical debt and anyone who has lived in the US will know what I mean.

Many people in the US who have crippling debt from medical bills actually had insurance when they incurred the bills (insurance companies only pay what they feel like paying on a claim, everything else the hospital can and does still come after you for).

The debt John Oliver forgave was all medical debt. In most cases you don't choose to take on medical debt. So I guess I just see it from that angle. "

I thought Obama had been trying to alter all that? (Mind you, in the run down to his presidential role he seems to be doing less and less politically and more and more publicity).

Not a nice position for any citizen to be in. Not a Wonga position. Long live the NHS.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Debt factoring is big business. It can help a business meet its immediate cash needs.

The issue is what happens after the debt has been sold on, particularly as the borrower usually doesn't understand that someone else has taken the debt.

The story is really heartening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Don't acknowledge the debt for six years and then it becomes statute barred. Basically it means that whoever you owe money to has had six years to get it back and the law says that's long enough. If debt collectors continue to harass you you can sue them. "

Not true. The statute of limitation means that a debt cannot be enforced, it does not mean it cannot be chased. As a consumer you would have some rights in this regard and there arr certain actions you can take which would then make it an offence to be chased (you have to write to the creditor or the collection company and use some very specific phrases).

Acknowledging a debt can be very subtle.

In addition an application can made to the courts to extend the statute of limitation which the courts may grant in certain circumstances - I've seen it given where a person had absconded only to be confirmed at a new address close to the limitation date. The court agreed that the actions of the individual and the efforts made to locate said person meant that the creditor should be given the opportunity to recover the debt even though limitation was close to applying.

Debt collection companies regulated under the consumer credit act under the financial conduct authority must follow (I think) CONC7 and have regard to an individual's financial circumstances and ability to pay. They have an obligation to refer a person with a debt to free debt advice organisations. Most will accept a reasonable instalment proposal.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I get what people are saying about people taking on the debt in the first place. Maybe the reason why I feel differently is because I think of it mostly in terms of medical debt and anyone who has lived in the US will know what I mean.

Many people in the US who have crippling debt from medical bills actually had insurance when they incurred the bills (insurance companies only pay what they feel like paying on a claim, everything else the hospital can and does still come after you for).

The debt John Oliver forgave was all medical debt. In most cases you don't choose to take on medical debt. So I guess I just see it from that angle. "

It is one of the reasons I am ever grateful for the NHS and fight against all the claims we'd have a better service if it was privatised.

My mother once fell ill in Texas. She was struggling to breathe with an asthma attack. She had taken insurance but forgot to take the paperwork with her. She was refused all treatment until we were able to fax over the insurance policy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

Shakespeare

"

Wise words from dear old Bill

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By *v_heatherTV/TS
over a year ago

Leeds

If anyone has debt problems look for one of the free debt advice charities and go there for advice. Some advice in the thread above is wrong and some would actually be counterproductive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't borrow if you can't pay back

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