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"Care to share the news source ?" They were talking about it on the BBC Daily politics programme today. | |||
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"Care to share the news source ? They were talking about it on the BBC Daily politics programme today. " Speculation then 
More interesting is the two campaign teams brexit are running. What's that about ? | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU?" Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU?" Shall we merge this thread with the Liars/misleaders?  | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. " Only if you believe David Cameron and George Osborne scaremongering. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it "a devalued pound would cover any trade tariffs. (That won't be imposed anyway. More scaremongering) | |||
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Mr ddc | |||
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"And only if you want to call it scaremongering. Another name for it would be the general consensus of expert opinion. " like that on the Euro? | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. " Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship?  | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it "A mutually beneficial free trade deal will be sought first but if the EU insist on Tariffs then Tariffs are a 2 way thing. If they put tariffs on us we can put tariffs on their goods. Can the EU/Eurozone afford to do that with the Euro already in crisis as it is? Only time will tell but i would say to carry on with free movement of people from the EU is not an option as it's one of the main reasons for leaving. If Remain campaign members seek to put forward government policy after a leave vote to carry on with free movement of people then that undermines the democratic choice made by the nation if Leave wins the referendum. | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship? "If we do Brexit, it will be the responsibility of the government of the day to move things forward. The Brexit campaign and those involved in it have no responsibility beyond it. | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship? "I'm saying if we Brexit then the duty is on the democratically elected uk government to implement the proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. What is the point in the country voting Leave only for the government to implement Remain campaign proposals? Are you saying that is democratic? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
A mutually beneficial free trade deal will be sought first but if the EU insist on Tariffs then Tariffs are a 2 way thing. If they put tariffs on us we can put tariffs on their goods. Can the EU/Eurozone afford to do that with the Euro already in crisis as it is? Only time will tell but i would say to carry on with free movement of people from the EU is not an option as it's one of the main reasons for leaving. If Remain campaign members seek to put forward government policy after a leave vote to carry on with free movement of people then that undermines the democratic choice made by the nation if Leave wins the referendum. "free movement will be top of the list for the EU ..looking at other european countries who trade with the EU free movement of people will remain the way it is and if any brexit supporter is proclaiming it wont they are mistaken or lying in order to gain support for brexit ...but hey no surprise to find brexit supporters lying !!!! | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship?
If we do Brexit, it will be the responsibility of the government of the day to move things forward.
The Brexit campaign and those involved in it have no responsibility beyond it. "What is the point in having 2 separate campaigns in a referendum then? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
A mutually beneficial free trade deal will be sought first but if the EU insist on Tariffs then Tariffs are a 2 way thing. If they put tariffs on us we can put tariffs on their goods. Can the EU/Eurozone afford to do that with the Euro already in crisis as it is? Only time will tell but i would say to carry on with free movement of people from the EU is not an option as it's one of the main reasons for leaving. If Remain campaign members seek to put forward government policy after a leave vote to carry on with free movement of people then that undermines the democratic choice made by the nation if Leave wins the referendum. "Just because Freedom of Movement is one of your reasons to vote leave, and has been a large part of the campaign it does not constitutionally follow that it is policy if BREXIT win. The vote is a referendum, not an election. Many people who vote leave may well support the Freedom of Movement - there is no way of telling. We are not voting on a manifesto, we are not voting on any specifics. | |||
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In your vision you state we are not going norwegian or swiss so that leaves WTO template as the quick option to get agreement with the EU. I never understand if you dislike the EU then expect the same organisation to make a quick and beneficial agreement for the UK ahead of their own electorates feedback to a UK snub. | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship?
I'm saying if we Brexit then the duty is on the democratically elected uk government to implement the proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. What is the point in the country voting Leave only for the government to implement Remain campaign proposals? Are you saying that is democratic? "It is democratic yes, under any definition of democracy you wish to use - not a BREXIT made up definition | |||
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"It's barely worth it but I'll (briefly) bite....I watched The Daily Politics too, but heard/saw something completely different: There was some very reasonable discussion about what happens if we vote Brexit. ONE possibility is that after leaving the EU, we still want access to the Common Market and therefore might negotiate a deal (rather like Norway, Switzerland etc) where we are still subject to some EU regulations. There will definitely be SOME negotiators conducted by our democratically elected parliamentarians. I'm genuinely confused as to how this has turned into an attack on the Remain Campaign and, even more bewilderingly, the EU? Leading figures in the Leave campaign like Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart and Micheal Gove are saying that if we leave the EU then we must Leave the single market so we can then opt out of the free movement of people rules to take back control of our borders. If we leave the EU and remain in the single market it is likely the EU will still want us to accept free movement of people and that is not acceptable to the Leave campaign. Remain tories in the government are seeking to undermine the Leave campaign and go against its wishes if Leave wins so that is undemocratic. If you watched the Daily politics today I'm sure you heard Douglas Carswell say if the country votes Leave then it is very simple we Leave. A Swiss deal and a Norway type deal will not be acceptable as they still have free movement of people from the EU. Surely one of the main reasons for leaving is to take back control of our borders and immigration system. If the Leave campaign wins this referendum then surely it should be the leading figures in the Leave campaign who set out the terms of leaving the EU and who put forward the terms for any future trade deal with the EU. Sorry? You go on incessantly about how undemocratic the EU is, and how we've lost sovereignty to them - but if we do BREXIT, you are saying that we bypass the democratically elected parliament of this country and give power to an unelected quasi-dictatorship?
If we do Brexit, it will be the responsibility of the government of the day to move things forward.
The Brexit campaign and those involved in it have no responsibility beyond it.
What is the point in having 2 separate campaigns in a referendum then? "Nothing else is on the ballot other than staying or leaving the EU. We are not voting for a set of policies. Any deals that happen subsequently to that will be negotiated by the government. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
A mutually beneficial free trade deal will be sought first but if the EU insist on Tariffs then Tariffs are a 2 way thing. If they put tariffs on us we can put tariffs on their goods. Can the EU/Eurozone afford to do that with the Euro already in crisis as it is? Only time will tell but i would say to carry on with free movement of people from the EU is not an option as it's one of the main reasons for leaving. If Remain campaign members seek to put forward government policy after a leave vote to carry on with free movement of people then that undermines the democratic choice made by the nation if Leave wins the referendum. free movement will be top of the list for the EU ..looking at other european countries who trade with the EU free movement of people will remain the way it is and if any brexit supporter is proclaiming it wont they are mistaken or lying in order to gain support for brexit ...but hey no surprise to find brexit supporters lying !!!!"I think someone else already said it earlier in the thread, speculation. You are speculating about what would happen as is everyone else because no one knows what will happen in the future. If we leave the single market then we can opt out of free movement of people from the EU and the EU won't be able to do anything about it. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. " Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. " that's only in your opinion..the vote is in or out ...everything else is open to negotiation we could still have free trade free movement of people and following EU regulations ..for brexiters to be implying we wont have these after a brexit vote is lying to the voting public ... | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? " No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. " It's not plain at all. People are just pointing out the obvious legal position, not what they want to happen. If Brexit win, there are several options which include negotiating a position to stay in the market. Personally, I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility for us to stay in the market without Freedom of Movement. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. " I accepted your rejection of Norwegian and Swiss deals in good faith 
Stop wriggling or you start looking like a politician | |||
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"who counts the votes all across the country....we will not leave, because if we go, lots of others will as well and the eu as we know it will fail big time....Cameron and co will do anything to stop us leaving ...even fiddling the figures....." Sorry, but no. I am one of the people who counts the votes and this sort of ignorant shit makes my blood boil. Can you tell me how in the name of good fuck David Cameron will be able to 'fiddle' the votes of around 50 million people? | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No " Thank you | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. " there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No Thank you " It was you who said earlier in this thread that maybe this thread should be merged with the liars/misleaders thread. Far be it from you to only quote one word from my entire post and try to mislead from what I had said in the rest of the post though.  | |||
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"I haven't heard of it, but the pound today was even weaker. This is my take on what gonna happen if it is a leave: The day after, we will see rocket sky high prices on everyday items, the country will turn on itself and there will be unrest for many decades to come as they cant believe what a huge mistake they did." ....and swarms of locusts will descend from the sky and eat all the crops and the four horsemen of the apocalypse will appear and WW3 will break out and devastation and destruction will come upon the earth. | |||
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"A interesting read .. Some of the reasons why we should leave the EU http://campaignforanindependentbritain.org.uk/the-economy" Analysis: pros and cons. How to vote according to your circumstance http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/ | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .." It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. | |||
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"I haven't heard of it, but the pound today was even weaker. This is my take on what gonna happen if it is a leave: The day after, we will see rocket sky high prices on everyday items, the country will turn on itself and there will be unrest for many decades to come as they cant believe what a huge mistake they did." the pound was today weaker. At about 1.27 to the Euro, no? A couple of years ago it went down to 1.11 and was between 1.14 and 1.18 for months and months. Was that down to Brexit? What effect did that have on the economy? Were prices sky high? Did it create unrest? Can anyone remember? Exchange rates will always rise and fall, regardless. And prices could fall anyway when we are free to set our own levels of import tax rather than the ones we are forced to impose by the EU | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. " why Australia they had a net legal immigration as high as ours and out if 4.5 million visa issued 77000 were visa overstays and ilegal immigrants arriving by sea was even higher .. Total immigration into ozz is greater than the UK and in a country with less than a third of the UK population .. that system wont work the way brexiters want ..and if you are prepared to put immigration over trade shows how reckless you are with the fate of the UK | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. why Australia they had a net legal immigration as high as ours and out if 4.5 million visa issued 77000 were visa overstays and ilegal immigrants arriving by sea was even higher .. Total immigration into ozz is greater than the UK and in a country with less than a third of the UK population .. that system wont work the way brexiters want ..and if you are prepared to put immigration over trade shows how reckless you are with the fate of the UK " Key is in the word "system". A points based immigration system can be tweaked and the criteria altered to the countries needs. Australia has a high level of immigration at the moment because it chooses to. We can tweak the settings of the system and alter the criteria to our own needs so we have fewer numbers coming in as the current level here is unsustainable. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. why Australia they had a net legal immigration as high as ours and out if 4.5 million visa issued 77000 were visa overstays and ilegal immigrants arriving by sea was even higher .. Total immigration into ozz is greater than the UK and in a country with less than a third of the UK population .. that system wont work the way brexiters want ..and if you are prepared to put immigration over trade shows how reckless you are with the fate of the UK " por el contrario | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. " that's just carrot dangling by frighten brexiters the political party in power has offered none of those dreams you seem keen to offer ..its only an in or out nothing else offered ..and are you that stupid to suggest injecting more money into the NHS when it already wastes hundreds of millions of British taxpayer money running inefficiently and being completely ripped of by pharmaceutical companies get a grip its in or out the rest is DREAMS ...or lies to entice the electorate to vote brexit | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. why Australia they had a net legal immigration as high as ours and out if 4.5 million visa issued 77000 were visa overstays and ilegal immigrants arriving by sea was even higher .. Total immigration into ozz is greater than the UK and in a country with less than a third of the UK population .. that system wont work the way brexiters want ..and if you are prepared to put immigration over trade shows how reckless you are with the fate of the UK por el contrario" on the other hand what ????? To obtain what many of the brexiters want from an out vote would require the political miracle of UKIP gaining some sort of power in government..until then the UK hat a conservative government who are pro Europe they must be otherwise it wouldn't have taken the rise in support from UKIP to prompt a referendum ..so again I say the UK will end up with what ever they negotiate .nothing else has been offered by the conservative government ...unless there was some small print in there manifesto I didn't bother to read . | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. that's just carrot dangling by frighten brexiters the political party in power has offered none of those dreams you seem keen to offer ..its only an in or out nothing else offered ..and are you that stupid to suggest injecting more money into the NHS when it already wastes hundreds of millions of British taxpayer money running inefficiently and being completely ripped of by pharmaceutical companies get a grip its in or out the rest is DREAMS ...or lies to entice the electorate to vote brexit " No need to entice anyone...Britain is voting to leave...even the bookies are seeing it now. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. Is a Brexit manifesto on the ballot? No but there are clear proposals put forward by the Leave campaign which is the next best thing. I think the government would be duty bound to honour some if not all of those proposals if leave wins like opting out of free movement of people and lowering VAT on energy bills. there is no manifesto foe the referendum " the proposals you refer to are just dream from idealistic politicians trying to win peoples vote " you will end up with what the tory party negotiates and if the majority of them wanted out it wouldn't have taken the rise of ukip to persuade them into a referendum .Cameroon ' bojo or whoever leads the tory party I believe all you will end up with is a botched affair .. It's not dreams at all, if we leave the EU we can opt out of the free movement of people and have an Australian style points based immigration system so we can control the quality and the quantity of people who come here. We can lower energy bills for every household by cutting VAT to below 5% which we can't currently do as the EU prevents us from doing so. We can put a cash injection of billions directly into the NHS from the money saved on our EU membership fee contribution. All very reasonable and sound proposals put forward by the Leave campaign. why Australia they had a net legal immigration as high as ours and out if 4.5 million visa issued 77000 were visa overstays and ilegal immigrants arriving by sea was even higher .. Total immigration into ozz is greater than the UK and in a country with less than a third of the UK population .. that system wont work the way brexiters want ..and if you are prepared to put immigration over trade shows how reckless you are with the fate of the UK por el contrarioon the other hand what ????? To obtain what many of the brexiters want from an out vote would require the political miracle of UKIP gaining some sort of power in government..until then the UK hat a conservative government who are pro Europe they must be otherwise it wouldn't have taken the rise in support from UKIP to prompt a referendum ..so again I say the UK will end up with what ever they negotiate .nothing else has been offered by the conservative government ...unless there was some small print in there manifesto I didn't bother to read ." oh dear | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
a devalued pound would cover any trade tariffs. (That won't be imposed anyway. More scaremongering)"i am actually trying to work out if you actually say stuff just to troll...or you really don't understand how real world ecomonics works... if you devalue the pound, "stuff" that you buy costs most.... interest rates will go out... which means mortgage rates will go up (please i hope that doesn't send you over the edge) I honestly don't mind if you finally admit it because at least that way i know you are just being flippant..... | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
a devalued pound would cover any trade tariffs. (That won't be imposed anyway. More scaremongering)
i am actually trying to work out if you actually say stuff just to troll...or you really don't understand how real world ecomonics works...
if you devalue the pound, "stuff" that you buy costs most.... interest rates will go out... which means mortgage rates will go up (please i hope that doesn't send you over the edge)
I honestly don't mind if you finally admit it because at least that way i know you are just being flippant....."Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then? No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
a devalued pound would cover any trade tariffs. (That won't be imposed anyway. More scaremongering)
i am actually trying to work out if you actually say stuff just to troll...or you really don't understand how real world ecomonics works...
if you devalue the pound, "stuff" that you buy costs most.... interest rates will go out... which means mortgage rates will go up (please i hope that doesn't send you over the edge)
I honestly don't mind if you finally admit it because at least that way i know you are just being flippant.....
Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then?
No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true?" | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
a devalued pound would cover any trade tariffs. (That won't be imposed anyway. More scaremongering)
i am actually trying to work out if you actually say stuff just to troll...or you really don't understand how real world ecomonics works...
if you devalue the pound, "stuff" that you buy costs most.... interest rates will go out... which means mortgage rates will go up (please i hope that doesn't send you over the edge)
I honestly don't mind if you finally admit it because at least that way i know you are just being flippant.....
Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then?
No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true?"yep the UK economy grew as a result of being part of the EU ...enough said | |||
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" Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then?" 1) when the UK's credit rating was downgraded it actually cost the UK government more to borrow the money they need to pay for the likes of mass infrusture projects.... 2) the cost of buying uk debt and bonds went up... which means that that to service that you have to give people who are willing to invest money a higher rate of return... which ends up costing the country more money.... "No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true?" interest rates remained the same because there was a fear that if they rate went up business's would not have have the same motivation to spend money (in times of recession... business hoard money away!) | |||
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" Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then? 1) when the UK's credit rating was downgraded it actually cost the UK government more to borrow the money they need to pay for the likes of mass infrusture projects.... 2) the cost of buying uk debt and bonds went up... which means that that to service that you have to give people who are willing to invest money a higher rate of return... which ends up costing the country more money.... No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true? interest rates remained the same because there was a fear that if they rate went up business's would not have have the same motivation to spend money (in times of recession... business hoard money away!) " As do people. Retail spending is a reasonable driver in growth. | |||
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" Do you not remember how low the Euro was a couple of years ago when the UK's credit rating was downgraded? Tell me what the damage was then? 1) when the UK's credit rating was downgraded it actually cost the UK government more to borrow the money they need to pay for the likes of mass infrusture projects.... 2) the cost of buying uk debt and bonds went up... which means that that to service that you have to give people who are willing to invest money a higher rate of return... which ends up costing the country more money.... No, I'll tell you Mr Expert. The economy started to grow a lot faster and stronger than the 'experts' had predicted. Interest rates remained the same. It actually helped the economy. You tell me that isn't true? interest rates remained the same because there was a fear that if they rate went up business's would not have have the same motivation to spend money (in times of recession... business hoard money away!) As do people. Retail spending is a reasonable driver in growth." absolutely... there is no real incentive to put money to one side if you are going to get no "interest" from it.... | |||
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"sorry... didn't know whether you wanted a mirco or macro discussion....... "whatever. The point is prices and interest rates remained the same. Thought that was your point | |||
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" Analysis: pros and cons. How to vote according to your circumstance http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/ " actually... this is about as sensible a reasoned post on the subject.... | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. " .....or not, as its speculation. No one can predict the markets. It's nonsensical to imagine it's possible. Keynesian economics doesn't cover the impact of a country leaving an organisation like the EU. No one knows what will happen. They can guess/estimate/think/calculate/believe etc etc but no one KNOWS!!!! Exciting, isn't it? | |||
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"Not heard it, not surprised by it" +1 | |||
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".....or not, as its speculation. No one can predict the markets. It's nonsensical to imagine it's possible. Keynesian economics doesn't cover the impact of a country leaving an organisation like the EU. No one knows what will happen. They can guess/estimate/think/calculate/believe etc etc but no one KNOWS!!!! Exciting, isn't it? " You're right there | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. .....or not, as its speculation. No one can predict the markets. It's nonsensical to imagine it's possible. Keynesian economics doesn't cover the impact of a country leaving an organisation like the EU. No one knows what will happen. They can guess/estimate/think/calculate/believe etc etc but no one KNOWS!!!! Exciting, isn't it? " Reaction to the close in the polls todays dive by the pound certainly was  | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. .....or not, as its speculation. No one can predict the markets. It's nonsensical to imagine it's possible. Keynesian economics doesn't cover the impact of a country leaving an organisation like the EU. No one knows what will happen. They can guess/estimate/think/calculate/believe etc etc but no one KNOWS!!!! Exciting, isn't it? Reaction to the close in the polls todays dive by the pound certainly was "The benefit of hindsight.....no one knew that that was going to happen last week. My point is not that it might happen but that no one can say for sure in advance that it will which is what the OP was implying. Besides which, if the referendum result suggests that most people want OUT, I think the government will deny them the opportunity and refuse to leave anyway. | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. .....or not, as its speculation. No one can predict the markets. It's nonsensical to imagine it's possible. Keynesian economics doesn't cover the impact of a country leaving an organisation like the EU. No one knows what will happen. They can guess/estimate/think/calculate/believe etc etc but no one KNOWS!!!! Exciting, isn't it? Reaction to the close in the polls todays dive by the pound certainly was
The benefit of hindsight.....no one knew that that was going to happen last week. My point is not that it might happen but that no one can say for sure in advance that it will which is what the OP was implying.
Besides which, if the referendum result suggests that most people want OUT, I think the government will deny them the opportunity and refuse to leave anyway. "if that happens and they refuse to leave, then maybe, - just maybe; the UK citizens may find the backbone they lost so many years ago and do something about it government officials and MPs are voted in, they can also be removed, sure would be good to see people of the UK grow some balls and a back bone again though | |||
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" Besides which, if the referendum result suggests that most people want OUT, I think the government will deny them the opportunity and refuse to leave anyway. if that happens and they refuse to leave, then maybe, - just maybe; the UK citizens may find the backbone they lost so many years ago and do something about it government officials and MPs are voted in, they can also be removed, sure would be good to see people of the UK grow some balls and a back bone again though" And at last....someone returns to the point I was making....what WOULD happen inf this scenario occurred? A government refusing to accept the result of the most democratic event of all....a referendum? I was not arguing a point on either side....that is individuals decisions. I was just posing the possibility.....had hoped it may not degenerate into the usual in/out slanging match. Already too many threads on that! So opinions on the initial question? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it "Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade. We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go. When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke. Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade. All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in. This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good | |||
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"Seems to be doing the rounds that "remain" campaigners within parliament are looking to get a majority of MPs together to block us leaving the EU even if the referendum goes for "Brexit". " Sadly referendums are not legally binding so the government can still do whatever it wants to regardless of the outcome. | |||
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"Thanks for clarification that if leave wins we go to default wto trade position. Cost on gdp of minus 3% to 5 % with a hard impact on normal people's living standards. Only if you believe David Cameron and George Osborne scaremongering. " No, just heard the WTO Director General explaining the costs and technicalities. Only a muppet could think that if you leave a group of people that you can go back to that same group and negotiate a better deal than when you were part of the gang....? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
"Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all? | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?"90% of the top economists said we should join the Euro | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?"If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated. The spin has been put on by the remain side. Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written | |||
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"who counts the votes all across the country....we will not leave, because if we go, lots of others will as well and the eu as we know it will fail big time....Cameron and co will do anything to stop us leaving ...even fiddling the figures....." They are done regionally same system as elections and pretty impossible to rig xx | |||
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" Besides which, if the referendum result suggests that most people want OUT, I think the government will deny them the opportunity and refuse to leave anyway. if that happens and they refuse to leave, then maybe, - just maybe; the UK citizens may find the backbone they lost so many years ago and do something about it government officials and MPs are voted in, they can also be removed, sure would be good to see people of the UK grow some balls and a back bone again though And at last....someone returns to the point I was making....what WOULD happen inf this scenario occurred? A government refusing to accept the result of the most democratic event of all....a referendum? I was not arguing a point on either side....that is individuals decisions. I was just posing the possibility.....had hoped it may not degenerate into the usual in/out slanging match. Already too many threads on that! So opinions on the initial question?" Personally I see it this way. Brexit vote. Firstly Cameron will be gone in a week (or less) and the Conservative party will be at war with itself. In the short term all eyes will be on the leadership campaign because, if for nothing else, no meaningful exit negotiations could take place without a UK PM. Boris will probably get the job but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he suddenly changed his tune. It took him more than long enough to decide which way to jump in the referendum and his main motivation (apart from wanting the top job of course) for joining the leave campaign was his disdain for Cameron's "new deal" He has also gone on record (before the campaign started in earnest) as saying he wouldn't rule out a second negotiation and referendum. That is the direction I think it will eventually go. Remember as well that Brussels has got form making the electorate vote again until they get the "right answer" So expect a summer of negotiations and a second vote late October/early November. As usual the Labour party will snipe from the sidelines while gleefully watching the Tory's implode. They will pay their price at a later date. Remain vote. With a decent majority (55%+) Cameron will probably survive but I still think the Tory's will go to war with themselves. Cameron will have succeeded in winning the vote but failed miserably in his main intention, neutralising UKIP. I would expect a couple, maybe a handful, of Tory MP's to defect to UKIP and a lot of disgruntled Tory Brexiters in the party at large will do the same. However I also think that it will be the end of Farage as UKIP leader with probably Stephen Woolfe as the main contender. Britain will stay in the EU for the time being but Euro Scepticism is on the rise all over Europe and I really don't expect it to survive in its current form for more than another 5-10 years. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written"I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit. You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written
I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit.
You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers."I don't know what you are reading but when did the pound reach all-time lows exactly? And what were the rates? | |||
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"All independent polls so far show in favour to leave I would say it's all been a lie if we end up staying. Making us stay is just the start of building a one world government. Why else would Scotland not be independent when they had the chance. Those polls also was in favour of them regaining their independence but that never came about. All this voting is just to make us feel like we have a choice when in reality we don't " try reading the financial times poll remain still ahead many polls show remain ahead just ..but u rember the polls in the 80's thatcher government weren't expected to return to power they got in with a landslide si can we trust the polls I doubt it .. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written
I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit.
You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers.
I don't know what you are reading but when did the pound reach all-time lows exactly? And what were the rates?"Look at the news sections of Reuters and FT for the latest moves. Increased volatility for the pound and dropping in value against the dollar. A mite inconvenient as oil is usually priced in dollars which means increased petrol and diesel prices and all this before the vote. | |||
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"All independent polls so far show in favour to leave I would say it's all been a lie if we end up staying. Making us stay is just the start of building a one world government. Why else would Scotland not be independent when they had the chance. Those polls also was in favour of them regaining their independence but that never came about. All this voting is just to make us feel like we have a choice when in reality we don't try reading the financial times poll remain still ahead many polls show remain ahead just ..but u rember the polls in the 80's thatcher government weren't expected to return to power they got in with a landslide si can we trust the polls I doubt it .." I wouldn't call a government controlled media outlet independent | |||
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"But Multi culturism is a wonderful thing, haven't seen it in Scotland but im sure it is vast down south" Multiculturalism hasn't worked for native Americans, Aborigines, Canadians, Maori either. You want Britishness? There's plenty of it in Oz. | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years?" Maybe Australia will have joined by then. Well they are in Eurovision | |||
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"But Multi culturism is a wonderful thing, haven't seen it in Scotland but im sure it is vast down south" Try Glasgow | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written
I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit.
You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers.
I don't know what you are reading but when did the pound reach all-time lows exactly? And what were the rates?
Look at the news sections of Reuters and FT for the latest moves. Increased volatility for the pound and dropping in value against the dollar. A mite inconvenient as oil is usually priced in dollars which means increased petrol and diesel prices and all this before the vote. "Just watched the business news on sky news, they guy on there (sorry didn't catch his name) was saying the markets have been volatile for the last 7 years and the £ pound has been up and down for the last 7 years since the global banking crash. | |||
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"Only a muppet could think that if you leave a group of people that you can go back to that same group and negotiate a better deal than when you were part of the gang....?" But...but...we're British! We're great! Not like those stinky foreigners. We're so awesome everyone in the world will give us amazing deals. I joke but this is basically as good an answer as Brexit has. They certainly don't have any actual plans or ideas as to what new trade deals will look like or how we'll protect the economy. | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years?" Well the UK is paying the EU the sum of £1.2 billion to help 5 more countries join under the EU Pre-Accession Assistance rules. Those 5 countries are Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. The £1.2 billion will be paid by the UK to the EU to help these 5 countries join between 2014 and 2020. In addition to this the UK is paying another separate sum of £640 million direct to Turkey as part of the EU/Turkey deal on the migrant crisis. Part of the agreed terms of that deal is to fast track Turkey's membership to the EU. So the £1.2 billion for the EU Pre-Accession Assistance scheme plus the £640 million direct to Turkey makes a total of £1.8 billion we are paying to help 5 more countries join the EU. | |||
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"Did you notice on the news today how the IFS have told Gove off for misrepresenting their figures, and have said that his claims about the NHS are entirely untrue?" Centaur? You seem to scour the news for any titbit on the EU debate, so you can't have missed it? | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years? Well the UK is paying the EU the sum of £1.2 billion to help 5 more countries join under the EU Pre-Accession Assistance rules. Those 5 countries are Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. The £1.2 billion will be paid by the UK to the EU to help these 5 countries join between 2014 and 2020. In addition to this the UK is paying another separate sum of £640 million direct to Turkey as part of the EU/Turkey deal on the migrant crisis. Part of the agreed terms of that deal is to fast track Turkey's membership to the EU. So the £1.2 billion for the EU Pre-Accession Assistance scheme plus the £640 million direct to Turkey makes a total of £1.8 billion we are paying to help 5 more countries join the EU. " In 2007 the peugeot car plant in Ryton on dunsmore nr Coventry was closed down (2,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Slovakia with the help of £78 millions of EU aid!. In 2012 the Ford Transit plant at Eastleigh nr Southampton was closed down (1,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Turkey with £80 millions of EU aid!,The EU aid was money that WE pay into the EU so by staying into the EU we are contributing to our own downfall. | |||
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"Did you notice on the news today how the IFS have told Gove off for misrepresenting their figures, and have said that his claims about the NHS are entirely untrue? Centaur? You seem to scour the news for any titbit on the EU debate, so you can't have missed it? "I've been at work all day and not long got home so no I've not seen that. Will have a look for it later though. I'm sure Michael Gove will have something to say about it in reply in due course. | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years? Well the UK is paying the EU the sum of £1.2 billion to help 5 more countries join under the EU Pre-Accession Assistance rules. Those 5 countries are Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. The £1.2 billion will be paid by the UK to the EU to help these 5 countries join between 2014 and 2020. In addition to this the UK is paying another separate sum of £640 million direct to Turkey as part of the EU/Turkey deal on the migrant crisis. Part of the agreed terms of that deal is to fast track Turkey's membership to the EU. So the £1.2 billion for the EU Pre-Accession Assistance scheme plus the £640 million direct to Turkey makes a total of £1.8 billion we are paying to help 5 more countries join the EU. In 2007 the peugeot car plant in Ryton on dunsmore nr Coventry was closed down (2,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Slovakia with the help of £78 millions of EU aid!. In 2012 the Ford Transit plant at Eastleigh nr Southampton was closed down (1,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Turkey with £80 millions of EU aid!,The EU aid was money that WE pay into the EU so by staying into the EU we are contributing to our own downfall. " I agree I don't think the EU protects British jobs at all. As Boris Johnson said the other day the EU is a jobs destroyer. | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years? Well the UK is paying the EU the sum of £1.2 billion to help 5 more countries join under the EU Pre-Accession Assistance rules. Those 5 countries are Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. The £1.2 billion will be paid by the UK to the EU to help these 5 countries join between 2014 and 2020. In addition to this the UK is paying another separate sum of £640 million direct to Turkey as part of the EU/Turkey deal on the migrant crisis. Part of the agreed terms of that deal is to fast track Turkey's membership to the EU. So the £1.2 billion for the EU Pre-Accession Assistance scheme plus the £640 million direct to Turkey makes a total of £1.8 billion we are paying to help 5 more countries join the EU. In 2007 the peugeot car plant in Ryton on dunsmore nr Coventry was closed down (2,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Slovakia with the help of £78 millions of EU aid!. In 2012 the Ford Transit plant at Eastleigh nr Southampton was closed down (1,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Turkey with £80 millions of EU aid!,The EU aid was money that WE pay into the EU so by staying into the EU we are contributing to our own downfall. " ford cut back.many jobs through out Europe not just in the UK it was a decision by ford of Europe nothing to do with the EU ..the 80 million to which you refer was a loan from the EU . | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written
I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit.
You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers.
I don't know what you are reading but when did the pound reach all-time lows exactly? And what were the rates?
Look at the news sections of Reuters and FT for the latest moves. Increased volatility for the pound and dropping in value against the dollar. A mite inconvenient as oil is usually priced in dollars which means increased petrol and diesel prices and all this before the vote. "you said the pound has hit all time lows. In 2008 it was 1.05 to the pound. Just a couple of years ago it went down to 1.11. Today it is 1.29 (gone up a bit from yesterday but don't tell anybody) I don't have to look at anything to tell you that much. Yes the pound will drop for a while when we leave but so what? Off and on it always has and that could be a good thing for exporters, jobs and the economy, but if you want to look at the down side to everything and believe all the scaremongering garbage, carry on, good luck | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. " and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. | |||
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"I trust costs on trade of tariffs coupled to a devalued pound that is ignoring the whirlpool of economic confusion during negotiations which in a best case takes 2 to 3 years to resolve. Hey its want you want so own it
Do you not realise that by being in the EU we at present pay a huge tariff to trade with other EU countries, we do not have free trade.
We pay a subscription up front rather than pay as you go.
When we leave nothing will change immediately we will have time to negotiate trade deals that suit the UK, they will not be like Norway or like any other countries trade deals with the EU as the UK is not like any other country. To say anything else is simply to blow smoke.
Tariffs work both ways, Germany and France will not stand back and allow the EU negotiators to impose hefty tariffs making their goods more expensive for one of their most lucrative customers as that would decimate their trade.
All the financial predictions also show that the UK will continue to grow post exit though it must be said that they predict the growth will not be as fast as it would if we stay in.
This however is seen as a short term problem that will quickly be reversed and the long term forecast for the UK outside the EU is very good
Wow - sounds almost too good to be true! You don't think it a bit strange that 90% of the top economists don't see it like that at all?
If you bother to read the figure given by those top economists you will see that is exactly what the stated.
The spin has been put on by the remain side.
Don't take my word for it look at what was actually written
I typed "uk growth post-Brexit" into my search engine. Every article shows that GDP will be lower, each household will be poorer and the pound has already hit all-time lows against the dollar and the Euro amid fears of Brexit.
You must have been listening to Patrick Minford who is very cosy with the Brexiteers.
I don't know what you are reading but when did the pound reach all-time lows exactly? And what were the rates?
Look at the news sections of Reuters and FT for the latest moves. Increased volatility for the pound and dropping in value against the dollar. A mite inconvenient as oil is usually priced in dollars which means increased petrol and diesel prices and all this before the vote.
you said the pound has hit all time lows. In 2008 it was 1.05 to the pound. Just a couple of years ago it went down to 1.11. Today it is 1.29 (gone up a bit from yesterday but don't tell anybody) I don't have to look at anything to tell you that much. Yes the pound will drop for a while when we leave but so what? Off and on it always has and that could be a good thing for exporters, jobs and the economy, but if you want to look at the down side to everything and believe all the scaremongering garbage, carry on, good luck
"think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ..." And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent " What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain! | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain!" So the likes of "Professor Patrick Minford (co-chair ) Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s" are not credible? I'm sure they'd beg to differ. Thanks for the directinstruction, but people ordering me to do things, particularly when they make risibly foolish statements, always makes me more inclined to do the opposite. | |||
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"Did you notice on the news today how the IFS have told Gove off for misrepresenting their figures, and have said that his claims about the NHS are entirely untrue?" he is not the only one..... David Anderson, the government’s independent reviewer of terrorism legislation has told Vote Leave not to quote him selectively. He thinks the UK will be safer remaining in the EU but the leave side are cherry picking comments to make it look like he isn't.... | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain! So the likes of "Professor Patrick Minford (co-chair ) Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s" are not credible? I'm sure they'd beg to differ. Thanks for the directinstruction, but people ordering me to do things, particularly when they make risibly foolish statements, always makes me more inclined to do the opposite." would that be the patrick minford, who on radio 4's "today" programme yesterday finally admitted that if britain were to leave... they would also leave the single market and there would be tarriffs placed on all goods at WTO levels... just checking..... just because the leave side have been adament that no such thing would happen.... | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain! So the likes of "Professor Patrick Minford (co-chair ) Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s" are not credible? I'm sure they'd beg to differ. Thanks for the directinstruction, but people ordering me to do things, particularly when they make risibly foolish statements, always makes me more inclined to do the opposite. would that be the patrick minford, who on radio 4's "today" programme yesterday finally admitted that if britain were to leave... they would also leave the single market and there would be tarriffs placed on all goods at WTO levels... just checking..... just because the leave side have been adament that no such thing would happen...."thats not what he said at all | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. " Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. | |||
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" thats not what he said at all" he certainly did..... the only think is i am going to correct myself... it wasn't yesterday, it was last thursday.... i have the podcast from last thursday today programme where they were interviewing minford and alistair darling at the same time..... | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain! So the likes of "Professor Patrick Minford (co-chair ) Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s" are not credible? I'm sure they'd beg to differ. Thanks for the directinstruction, but people ordering me to do things, particularly when they make risibly foolish statements, always makes me more inclined to do the opposite. would that be the patrick minford, who on radio 4's "today" programme yesterday finally admitted that if britain were to leave... they would also leave the single market and there would be tarriffs placed on all goods at WTO levels... just checking..... just because the leave side have been adament that no such thing would happen...."You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. " He is although i think he's a basket case attractive to those who will be voting Brexit, their 'poster boy'.. back to the point however, you referred to the democratic issue given a Brexit result post the 24th.. how would it be democratic given that individuals are not standing per se as candidates for either side that anyone not already an elected member of Parliament be involved in any negotiation post Brexit..? they as individuals have no mandate from the electorate.. | |||
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" thats not what he said at all he certainly did..... the only think is i am going to correct myself... it wasn't yesterday, it was last thursday.... i have the podcast from last thursday today programme where they were interviewing minford and alistair darling at the same time....." plus i am going to back myself up here... the bbc have a full copy of the today programme, thursday 2nd june... interview took place between 8.30 and 8.40.....
so please... tell me he didn't say it again | |||
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" You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. " so who is telling the truth... mr 350 mill per week....or your chief brexit economist? | |||
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" think I will believe this The Institute for Fiscal Studies did a detailed study on the risks of Brexit and its not looking good for the UK in the event of a brexit ..so yes brexit will affect the UK economy Badly ... And for balance, you should check out Economists for Brexit - all equally eminent and totally independent What - there are no credible economists who think Brexit would work. Ask the Bank of England, the IMF, the head of the WTO. Remember Obama said we will go to the back of the queue - when it comes to negotiating trade agreements. Who will the Chinest negotiate with first, the 500m people in the Eu or the 60m people in the UK. Vote Remain! So the likes of "Professor Patrick Minford (co-chair ) Professor of Economics at Cardiff University, formerly director and founder of Liverpool Research Group which built the ‘Liverpool Model’ Of the UK economy, which was hugely influential in forecasting and policy analysis in the 1980s" are not credible? I'm sure they'd beg to differ. Thanks for the directinstruction, but people ordering me to do things, particularly when they make risibly foolish statements, always makes me more inclined to do the opposite." The economists for Brexit are a group of 8 leading and well respected economists, of which Patrick Minford is only one. As for the bank of England who the previous poster to you mentioned, then the former governor of the bank of England Sir Mervyn King said the Euro zone is doomed to failure, so that suggests significant risk to us for staying in the EU as we could pick up hefty bills when the Euro goes down the tubes. As for Obama his comments are frankly irrelevant, he only has a few short months left as President and Donald Trump who could be next President said Britain would be first in the queue for a trade deal with USA if we Brexit. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. He is although i think he's a basket case attractive to those who will be voting Brexit, their 'poster boy'.. back to the point however, you referred to the democratic issue given a Brexit result post the 24th.. how would it be democratic given that individuals are not standing per se as candidates for either side that anyone not already an elected member of Parliament be involved in any negotiation post Brexit..? they as individuals have no mandate from the electorate.. " The mandate from the electorate would be the terms and points on which the vote leave campaign win the referendum which is a democratic vote. For the likes of Stephen Kinnock to say he would try to get a large group of MP's together to go against the vote leave campaign's wishes in the event of Brexit in Parliament really is nauseating and frankly beyond belief. | |||
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" You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. so who is telling the truth... mr 350 mill per week....or your chief brexit economist?" They are both saying we should leave the single market. In that event surely a free trade deal would be better for negotiation for Britain and the EU as it would be mutually beneficial. If the EU want to go down the route of tariffs then so be it, but we can also put tariffs on EU goods. | |||
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" You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. so who is telling the truth... mr 350 mill per week....or your chief brexit economist? They are both saying we should leave the single market. In that event surely a free trade deal would be better for negotiation for Britain and the EU as it would be mutually beneficial. If the EU want to go down the route of tariffs then so be it, but we can also put tariffs on EU goods. " incase you hadn't noticed we already have a free trade deal with the EU and. Have had for well over thirty years ..so no need to negotiate a new one !!!!!!!! | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. He is although i think he's a basket case attractive to those who will be voting Brexit, their 'poster boy'.. back to the point however, you referred to the democratic issue given a Brexit result post the 24th.. how would it be democratic given that individuals are not standing per se as candidates for either side that anyone not already an elected member of Parliament be involved in any negotiation post Brexit..? they as individuals have no mandate from the electorate.. The mandate from the electorate would be the terms and points on which the vote leave campaign win the referendum which is a democratic vote. For the likes of Stephen Kinnock to say he would try to get a large group of MP's together to go against the vote leave campaign's wishes in the event of Brexit in Parliament really is nauseating and frankly beyond belief. " Centaur, there are no 'terms and conditions' on the paper its an aye or nay to stay in and if the latter then its the people who have the expertise within the area's to be negotiated who will at the behest of the Government fill in the details so to speak.. the paper had to be in a simplistic form and could never in a million years ask the electorate all the minutiae of what comes after.. | |||
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" You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. so who is telling the truth... mr 350 mill per week....or your chief brexit economist? They are both saying we should leave the single market. In that event surely a free trade deal would be better for negotiation for Britain and the EU as it would be mutually beneficial. If the EU want to go down the route of tariffs then so be it, but we can also put tariffs on EU goods. incase you hadn't noticed we already have a free trade deal with the EU and. Have had for well over thirty years ..so no need to negotiate a new one !!!!!!!!" We don't have a free trade deal with the EU. We pay billions in EU membership fees which is in itself a tariff of sorts. | |||
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" You seem to be lagging behind somewhat Fabio, Micheal Gove said weeks ago on the Andrew Marr show that we should Leave the single market. Leaving the single market does not automatically mean the imposition of tariffs, it depends what kind of deal can be done. so who is telling the truth... mr 350 mill per week....or your chief brexit economist? They are both saying we should leave the single market. In that event surely a free trade deal would be better for negotiation for Britain and the EU as it would be mutually beneficial. If the EU want to go down the route of tariffs then so be it, but we can also put tariffs on EU goods. incase you hadn't noticed we already have a free trade deal with the EU and. Have had for well over thirty years ..so no need to negotiate a new one !!!!!!!! We don't have a free trade deal with the EU. We pay billions in EU membership fees which is in itself a tariff of sorts. " We do have a free trade deal, it's just the same as me getting free golf at my golf club. I have to pay £650 per year to them but I get free golf! | |||
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"oh lordy... i thought i'd never say this... poor farage has been absolutely ambushed by this itv studio audience.... he is having his nick griffin momnet... and you can see why vote leave were unhappy with him being put up for this.... " We're we watching the same programme? I think Farage did ok, not the best performance I've seen him do but it wasn't the worst either. I would call it mediocre. Post debate analysis by itv news at 10 and many of the political analysts were saying Farage performance was ok and the Leave campaign could be satisfied with his performance tonight. David Cameron also had some difficult moments and faced some difficult questions on immigration. Again post debate analysis by political commentators say Cameron performance was ok, nothing special could be called mediocre. I would call it a score draw with neither Cameron or Farage coming out the clear winner. | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. He is although i think he's a basket case attractive to those who will be voting Brexit, their 'poster boy'.. back to the point however, you referred to the democratic issue given a Brexit result post the 24th.. how would it be democratic given that individuals are not standing per se as candidates for either side that anyone not already an elected member of Parliament be involved in any negotiation post Brexit..? they as individuals have no mandate from the electorate.. The mandate from the electorate would be the terms and points on which the vote leave campaign win the referendum which is a democratic vote. For the likes of Stephen Kinnock to say he would try to get a large group of MP's together to go against the vote leave campaign's wishes in the event of Brexit in Parliament really is nauseating and frankly beyond belief. Centaur, there are no 'terms and conditions' on the paper its an aye or nay to stay in and if the latter then its the people who have the expertise within the area's to be negotiated who will at the behest of the Government fill in the details so to speak.. the paper had to be in a simplistic form and could never in a million years ask the electorate all the minutiae of what comes after.. " There are proposals and suggestions put in place by both the Remain campaign and the leave campaign which people voting will decide their vote on? It's reasonable to suggest some of those proposals should be put in place depending on which side wins. | |||
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"oh lordy... i thought i'd never say this... poor farage has been absolutely ambushed by this itv studio audience.... he is having his nick griffin momnet... and you can see why vote leave were unhappy with him being put up for this.... " check out what Mimford said on tv this morning I think you are confused. And one of the girls who asked a question of Farage tonight did herself no favours and frankly came across as quite rude and was wrong. And frankly comparing him to Nick Griffin does you no favours. All remainers seem able to do is throw insults. Anyway, expect a rise in brexit support in the morning when the Cameron/Turkey video is released. I will leave it there I'm off bed | |||
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" A mutually beneficial free trade deal will be sought first but if the EU insist on Tariffs then Tariffs are a 2 way thing. If they put tariffs on us we can put tariffs on their goods. " Yeah that game always ends well doesn't it | |||
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"So it seems clear from what Remainers are posting on this thread if Leave wins this referendum they want the government to implement Remain proposals like staying in the single market? That is not fair or democratic by any stretch of the imagination. All speculation about what may or may not happen anyway. If Cameron did try to do that he would very quickly find himself subject to a vote of no confidence within the tory party. and it would be undemocratic beyond acceptance to have an unelected person like Farage representing this country in any negotiations.. any negotiations on behalf of the country as a whole will be done by those in the Government be that the present one or who knows what may follow the referendum etc.. Nigel Farage is not part of the official Vote Leave campaign. He threw his lot in with the Grassroots Out campaign but the electoral commission chose the vote Leave campaign as the official one. However the vote Leave campaign do seem to have stolen some of the ideas Farage came up with in the first place such as having an Australian style points based immigration system for Britain if we Leave the EU. He is although i think he's a basket case attractive to those who will be voting Brexit, their 'poster boy'.. back to the point however, you referred to the democratic issue given a Brexit result post the 24th.. how would it be democratic given that individuals are not standing per se as candidates for either side that anyone not already an elected member of Parliament be involved in any negotiation post Brexit..? they as individuals have no mandate from the electorate.. The mandate from the electorate would be the terms and points on which the vote leave campaign win the referendum which is a democratic vote. For the likes of Stephen Kinnock to say he would try to get a large group of MP's together to go against the vote leave campaign's wishes in the event of Brexit in Parliament really is nauseating and frankly beyond belief. Centaur, there are no 'terms and conditions' on the paper its an aye or nay to stay in and if the latter then its the people who have the expertise within the area's to be negotiated who will at the behest of the Government fill in the details so to speak.. the paper had to be in a simplistic form and could never in a million years ask the electorate all the minutiae of what comes after.. There are proposals and suggestions put in place by both the Remain campaign and the leave campaign which people voting will decide their vote on? It's reasonable to suggest some of those proposals should be put in place depending on which side wins. " by the Government of the day.. | |||
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"oh lordy... i thought i'd never say this... poor farage has been absolutely ambushed by this itv studio audience.... he is having his nick griffin momnet... and you can see why vote leave were unhappy with him being put up for this.... check out what Mimford said on tv this morning I think you are confused. And one of the girls who asked a question of Farage tonight did herself no favours and frankly came across as quite rude and was wrong. And frankly comparing him to Nick Griffin does you no favours. All remainers seem able to do is throw insults. Anyway, expect a rise in brexit support in the morning when the Cameron/Turkey video is released. I will leave it there I'm off bed "I thought the Nick Griffin comparison was so ridiculous I didn't even mention it in my previous reply to Fabio's post. | |||
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"What gets me is all those saying that we can remain in the EU and change it from within. That's never going to happen as they do not want change they want more power be government to rule all countries. More contries come online in the future will dilute any votes that the uk will have in future rules anyways. At the moment it's 27 to 1 what's it's going to be in another 20 years? Well the UK is paying the EU the sum of £1.2 billion to help 5 more countries join under the EU Pre-Accession Assistance rules. Those 5 countries are Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. The £1.2 billion will be paid by the UK to the EU to help these 5 countries join between 2014 and 2020. In addition to this the UK is paying another separate sum of £640 million direct to Turkey as part of the EU/Turkey deal on the migrant crisis. Part of the agreed terms of that deal is to fast track Turkey's membership to the EU. So the £1.2 billion for the EU Pre-Accession Assistance scheme plus the £640 million direct to Turkey makes a total of £1.8 billion we are paying to help 5 more countries join the EU. In 2007 the peugeot car plant in Ryton on dunsmore nr Coventry was closed down (2,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Slovakia with the help of £78 millions of EU aid!. In 2012 the Ford Transit plant at Eastleigh nr Southampton was closed down (1,300 Britons losing their jobs!)and was re-located in Turkey with £80 millions of EU aid!,The EU aid was money that WE pay into the EU so by staying into the EU we are contributing to our own downfall. ford cut back.many jobs through out Europe not just in the UK it was a decision by ford of Europe nothing to do with the EU ..the 80 million to which you refer was a loan from the EU ." And increased production at the Dagenham engine plant, so swings and roundabouts | |||
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