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To Vote or Not to Vote

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

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By *tephenBunChowMan
over a year ago

Haywards heath/Waterlooville

I tend to not vote because the post box is too far away to post my vote. If they did online voting I'd be more inclined to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I have no strong opinion either way I won't be voting. Other people have the right to do the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I tend to not vote because the post box is too far away to post my vote. If they did online voting I'd be more inclined to"

You can hand your postal vote in at your station if ypu havent posted in time xx

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

I always vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the referendum hmm maybe. But in normal elections not having an opinion to me anyway would indicate i dont know enough on the party policies.

I really think everyone has a duty to themselves to be interested in politics and use their vote.

25% turn out in my area and very few under 40

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

If people have genuinely tried to come to a decision but simply cannot make their mind up, they would be wrong to vote.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote. "

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On the referendum hmm maybe. But in normal elections not having an opinion to me anyway would indicate i dont know enough on the party policies.

I really think everyone has a duty to themselves to be interested in politics and use their vote.

25% turn out in my area and very few under 40 "

Perhaps they have taken an interest, realised that all political parties are entirely the same bollocks and hence why they don't bother voting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave "

I think your right with this one there seems an ennormous proportion of bull to wade through xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vote or don't vote it's your own choice. But a no vote doesn't really give you right to comment how bad things are. That my opinion

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Vote or don't vote it's your own choice. But a no vote doesn't really give you right to comment how bad things are. That my opinion "

oh yeah totally with you on that opinion..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love the new avatar btw op

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The argument people died to give you the right to vote fails to acknowledge the same people died giving you the right to exercise free will by abstaining from voting should that be your preference......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I shall be voting I always do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your vote,your choice

Yay,nay or pass.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave "

I think your excellent question possess some serious issues for the future of democracy.

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

And we, now, with the internet have more information at our finger tips than any previous generation, and we have social media to bombard our friends and be bombarded by them.

No voter has ever had more information available to them than we do.

And many would say (me included) that this is one of the most important votes of our lifetime.

So with all that, if a 'normal' (sorry, I hope you don't mind being called normal) voter can't see the wood for the trees and can't decide how to vote, then I think there has to be something seriously wrong somewhere.

And that is in no way a criticism of you. It's just a reflection that if we want a functioning democracy in this country, we are going to have to do some things differently in the future.

And to answer your question. I will vote in the referendum; I vote in European elections, but I no longer vote in UK elections as I believe we have a completely broken democratic system in the UK. I live in a place where a party that I don't support and will never support has held the parliamentary seat since it was formed in 1950 and the local council seat since the local council was formed. I have realised that it's not worth my effort registering my (protest) vote. It really makes me laugh when people say the EU is undemocratic. From where I live it is far more democratic than the UK. At least in European elections my (PR) vote matters. (Sorry to bring it back to the referendum again!)

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"The argument people died to give you the right to vote fails to acknowledge the same people died giving you the right to exercise free will by abstaining from voting should that be your preference......

"

True and an excellent point.

I suspect though that if we had the opportunity to sit down and discuss it with them, whilst they would absolutely support the right not to vote, they would be disappointed that anyone exercised it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you don't vote don't complain

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I dont have qn opinion.but something.will have swayed me.

My opinion is.its disrespectful not to vote and if we leave europe it will be an historical.event.and i want to tell my grandchildren i was part of it which ever way.i vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The argument people died to give you the right to vote fails to acknowledge the same people died giving you the right to exercise free will by abstaining from voting should that be your preference......

True and an excellent point.

I suspect though that if we had the opportunity to sit down and discuss it with them, whilst they would absolutely support the right not to vote, they would be disappointed that anyone exercised it."

A sad irony being many of those who fought and died during WW1 and WW2 were not eligible to vote....

I think it wasn't until 1969 that people below the age of 21 were given the vote...

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By *ouplekinkCouple
over a year ago

kink town

I will vote on the referendum as I think I have made my mind up. But as for other votes if I can't decide either way I still attend but draw a line through the paper. There should be a 'none of the above' option.

And yes, I believe even if I didn't vote I can still complain, a 'no' vote is still a vote.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

You can spoil the ballot paper, those votes are recorded too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely an abstained vote is a signal to both sides that they have failed to present an engaging and persuasive campaign .....

So perhaps an abstained vote has equal gravity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The argument people died to give you the right to vote fails to acknowledge the same people died giving you the right to exercise free will by abstaining from voting should that be your preference......

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My view is that if you don't vote, you do not have the right to complain about the outcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I will vote on the referendum as I think I have made my mind up. But as for other votes if I can't decide either way I still attend but draw a line through the paper. There should be a 'none of the above' option.

And yes, I believe even if I didn't vote I can still complain, a 'no' vote is still a vote. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As far as I'm concerned..... I feel both sides have run a shambolic campaign which only serves to highlight neither side feels the public deserve the respect of constructing a factual manifesto that can be held to account on its success or failure,,

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By *carlet_heavenWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the sticks

In a country where voting is not compulsory a government will rely on a certain % not voting. Their opinion polls will factor this in when predicting their success in a forthcoming election.

If people that didn't normally vote did in fact vote, it could change the overall result.

Its usually about 1/3 of the electorate that don't vote…this could be a powerful democratic tool…but people have lost faith in politics & just can't be bothered. There's a reason why our government haven't made it compulsory to vote

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By *mokes n MirrorsCouple
over a year ago

Plymouth and Newcastle (sometimes)


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

You can spoil the ballot paper, those votes are recorded too."

You can spoil a ballot paper in many ways so it's not an accurate representation of people who want to vote 'none of the above'. I think we should all vote but with more options so the reasons for not voting for/against the proposal are listed. When the politicians realise it's not really apathy that makes folks not vote but an absolute distrust of the lying, cheating, two faced picture of politics that most of us see then maybe things would change for the better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

You can spoil the ballot paper, those votes are recorded too.

You can spoil a ballot paper in many ways so it's not an accurate representation of people who want to vote 'none of the above'. I think we should all vote but with more options so the reasons for not voting for/against the proposal are listed. When the politicians realise it's not really apathy that makes folks not vote but an absolute distrust of the lying, cheating, two faced picture of politics that most of us see then maybe things would change for the better."

Most people who i know don't vote do it for the reason that "my vote won't change anything". If the majority of the people who believed that actually voted, a lot can be done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My view is that if you don't vote, you do not have the right to complain about the outcome. "

I disagree with this. Not having something you believe in enough to vote for doesn't mean you have to lie down and accept what happens after the vote. What if you were forced to choose and it all goes wrong according to the way you voted? Are you still not allowed to complain? How many people voted for Cameron and are now complaining about the state of the country?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We should all vote. If no body takes your fancy you can spoil your paper.

Its the act its self that counts use it or loose it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My view is that if you don't vote, you do not have the right to complain about the outcome.

I disagree with this. Not having something you believe in enough to vote for doesn't mean you have to lie down and accept what happens after the vote. What if you were forced to choose and it all goes wrong according to the way you voted? Are you still not allowed to complain? How many people voted for Cameron and are now complaining about the state of the country? "

And how many more people didn't vote at all complain about camermoron? How are things supposed to change if the people who can make change don't bother due to not being bothered or think my vote won't mean a thing.

I know loads of people who don't vote yet batch and moan that their benifits are being messed with... my answer is you should have voted then.

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By *ouplekinkCouple
over a year ago

kink town

Voting for the lesser evil, is still voting for evil!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On the referendum hmm maybe. But in normal elections not having an opinion to me anyway would indicate i dont know enough on the party policies.

I really think everyone has a duty to themselves to be interested in politics and use their vote.

25% turn out in my area and very few under 40 "

Definitely this. Everybody should vote. Even if you dont like any of the candidates or whatever, then spoil your ballot paper, it still counts as a vote, but of no confidence in any party. By not voting at all, you're allowing the wrong parties to get in time and again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My view is that if you don't vote, you do not have the right to complain about the outcome.

I disagree with this. Not having something you believe in enough to vote for doesn't mean you have to lie down and accept what happens after the vote. What if you were forced to choose and it all goes wrong according to the way you voted? Are you still not allowed to complain? How many people voted for Cameron and are now complaining about the state of the country?

And how many more people didn't vote at all complain about camermoron? How are things supposed to change if the people who can make change don't bother due to not being bothered or think my vote won't mean a thing.

I know loads of people who don't vote yet batch and moan that their benifits are being messed with... my answer is you should have voted then. "

Absolutely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We should all vote. If no body takes your fancy you can spoil your paper.

Its the act its self that counts use it or loose it."

Its a shame more people dont do that.

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By *ayb1970Man
over a year ago

Somerset

Leave and shock them x we will be fine

I don't normally vote but I am this time enough is enough !

J

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

Simple, if you don't vote you can't complain and wish you had. Reading between the lines, it seems you didn't want this Referendum and if so, you should vote Remain, to reflect your contentment with the status quo. If I'm reading this wrong, then cast your vote as you see fit. One vote really can make the difference in a Yes/No referendum.

"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"The argument people died to give you the right to vote fails to acknowledge the same people died giving you the right to exercise free will by abstaining from voting should that be your preference......

"

thats true.... but to that i also say this...

if you don't vote... then don't complain about the consequences....

those people fought to give you the chance to make a difference... if you decide not to, on your own head bit it..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who cares...no matter what the political climate my life will tick over just the same. Who has governed has never made the slightest bit off difference to me. i just get on and enjoy my stay here on earth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I would like to see voting being compulsory as it is in ome other countries. But that would need to come with a no preference option on every voting slip.

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By *ay BrowerMan
over a year ago

Oldham

I always vote and would hate to live in a place where I couldn't vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is worth pointing out that this Conservative government was elected by only 24% of those eligible to vote.

But a referendum is different, not based on spurious boundaries. Every vote "Yes", every vote "No" counts towards the final figure.

If the only people that vote are those that wanted a referendum (I.e. The Brexiteers) then they will win the referendum. If you believe Brexit is a minority view then you must vote Remain to reflect that belief. Sitting on the fence isn't an option.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Im not purposely being ignorant and as ive stated ive always voted in the past..

As there is SO much information out there i am really struggling to decipher what is fact and fiction.

Every piece of information is posted with a preference one way or the other which doesnt help when trying to balance things up

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

I dont vote as I dont trust any of the partys folk get mixed up imo.we fought for freedom of choice not freedom to vote so if I decide none are worthy of my vote why should I vote ?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I believe it should be a criminal offence not to vote. I also believe that every ballot should have a box to vote for 'none of the above' and that if more votes are cast for 'none of the above than any named candidate that no one should be returned to whichever assembly the election was for. I further believe that there should be a minimum quorum of 67% of all seats in an assembly filled with elected members before any any business could be enacted.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I believe it should be a criminal offence not to vote. I also believe that every ballot should have a box to vote for 'none of the above' and that if more votes are cast for 'none of the above than any named candidate that no one should be returned to whichever assembly the election was for. I further believe that there should be a minimum quorum of 67% of all seats in an assembly filled with elected members before any any business could be enacted. "
I understand what your saying but is forcing someone to vote not contrary to freedom of choice. For me abstentions should be made public

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not purposely being ignorant and as ive stated ive always voted in the past..

As there is SO much information out there i am really struggling to decipher what is fact and fiction.

Every piece of information is posted with a preference one way or the other which doesnt help when trying to balance things up "

You'll probably never know fact from fiction like most folk.

Just different groups telling you why their ideas are the best and selling them to you however they can and hoping you believe their version of what's right over the other guys version.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

(I said)

I believe it should be a criminal offence not to vote. I also believe that every ballot should have a box to vote for 'none of the above' and that if more votes are cast for 'none of the above than any named candidate that no one should be returned to whichever assembly the election was for. I further believe that there should be a minimum quorum of 67% of all seats in an assembly filled with elected members before any any business could be enacted.


" I understand what your saying but is forcing someone to vote not contrary to freedom of choice. For me abstentions should be made public "

No, forcing people to vote in elections is not contrary to freedom of choice provided there is an option not to vote for any of the candidates standing. However it is not in the interests of the political establishment to force all to vote and therefore will not happen.

Naming those who fail to vote would expose the reality that our election system is not by secret ballot. Again this will not happen.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

I would encourage people to vote in elections as the right for everyone to vote was hard fought for by many people in the past. Even if you can't decide or don't want to vote for any of the options then spoil the ballot paper, or write "none of the above" and still cast your vote as they will still be counted.

One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations.

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I think it's important to use your vote. Whether you actually vote or just draw a willy on it. I'm still undecided. I was chatting to a chap at work today who was quite helpful as I'm finding it all quite tricky to understand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

I would encourage people to vote in elections as the right for everyone to vote was hard fought for by many people in the past. Even if you can't decide or don't want to vote for any of the options then spoil the ballot paper, or write "none of the above" and still cast your vote as they will still be counted.

One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations. "

How do spoiled votes work? Say if it was 20 votes for side A, 20 for side B and 10 spoiled votes... then what?

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By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

I would encourage people to vote in elections as the right for everyone to vote was hard fought for by many people in the past. Even if you can't decide or don't want to vote for any of the options then spoil the ballot paper, or write "none of the above" and still cast your vote as they will still be counted.

One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations. "
dont listen to propaganda if you really cant decide don't vote ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

I would encourage people to vote in elections as the right for everyone to vote was hard fought for by many people in the past. Even if you can't decide or don't want to vote for any of the options then spoil the ballot paper, or write "none of the above" and still cast your vote as they will still be counted.

One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations.

How do spoiled votes work? Say if it was 20 votes for side A, 20 for side B and 10 spoiled votes... then what?"

It's a referendum. There will always only be the choice of what's on offer. It's not an election, a protest vote is quite literally a waste of time.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

Personally, i would like people to actually vote rather than not. But it is a personal thing.

I'd just hope anyone that didn't vote held back on commenting on how things are as they didn't use the opportunity to do anything about it.

Of course elections and referendums are full of complexity, but if we can use this site we ought to be able to find out enough to have an opinion and then use the ballot box to decide.

Democracy needs people to actually give a damn..., not having a go at the OP, just think we should invest more in reading, watching, listening and discussing what we think - preferably not on social media as it dumbs down the debate as we have all seen in the past few weeks...

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By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right "

They died for the freedom to vote which means the freedom not to as well - hence, the Monster Raving Loonies.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I always vote. Mainly the women fought long and hard etc. but also so that I can have a bloody good rant when those in power fuck it up.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"How do spoiled votes work? Say if it was 20 votes for side A, 20 for side B and 10 spoiled votes... then what?"

I am going to assume you have never been to a count and do not know how things work in reality.

When votes are counted they are credited to candidates, when a ballot is not marked with the correct number of X's in the assigned boxes they are examined by scrutineers (representatives of the candidates) and senior counting staff who attempt assign ballots to candidates, if this is not possible they are recorded as spoiled papers.

The number of spoiled papers is declared after the votes for each candidate is declared. All candidates and officials do everything they can to keep the number as low as possible because if the number of spoiled votes was greater than those for the elected candidate then their election would be open to question. Politicians understand that if they can keep the number of spoiled papers in single or low double figures then there is little or no chance of momentum building behind spoiled ballots.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When it comes to voting, everyone should vote for what ever reason they feel is right. Even if you are not politically minded, if there is a reason, even q silly reasin to vote one way ktlr another, do it. If everyone votes for what they think is best for them, we end up with majority deciding what happens next. This equals democracy x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How do spoiled votes work? Say if it was 20 votes for side A, 20 for side B and 10 spoiled votes... then what?

I am going to assume you have never been to a count and do not know how things work in reality.

When votes are counted they are credited to candidates, when a ballot is not marked with the correct number of X's in the assigned boxes they are examined by scrutineers (representatives of the candidates) and senior counting staff who attempt assign ballots to candidates, if this is not possible they are recorded as spoiled papers.

The number of spoiled papers is declared after the votes for each candidate is declared. All candidates and officials do everything they can to keep the number as low as possible because if the number of spoiled votes was greater than those for the elected candidate then their election would be open to question. Politicians understand that if they can keep the number of spoiled papers in single or low double figures then there is little or no chance of momentum building behind spoiled ballots.

"

Thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

I would encourage people to vote in elections as the right for everyone to vote was hard fought for by many people in the past. Even if you can't decide or don't want to vote for any of the options then spoil the ballot paper, or write "none of the above" and still cast your vote as they will still be counted.

One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations.

How do spoiled votes work? Say if it was 20 votes for side A, 20 for side B and 10 spoiled votes... then what?

It's a referendum. There will always only be the choice of what's on offer. It's not an election, a protest vote is quite literally a waste of time. "

Thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you don't believe in voting for (or against)a political party (or side to a referendum) then there is no point in voting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we need a "none of the above" option.

With the cavet that if none of the above wins then no candidate from that election can run in the rerun

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations. "

And the OP SPECIFICALLY asked to keep your politics out of it, but you have to stick your size 5 feet in, don't you.

I don't care how anyone votes in the referendum - but it drives me nuts when Brexit supporter spout rubbish. Like this.

We share a degree of sovereignty with the EU for a number of things that we can't do on our own. Things like creating the largest single market in the world, representing just under 25% of the entire global GDP where we can sell our products, set up businesses, travel, move and work. That would be impossible without common rules and standards that we could not do by ourselves.

Things like creating environmental standards that would be pointless to implement in just one country.

Chipping away at our democracy? Really? That's the democracy where anyone with money can buy a seat in the House of Lords and stay there for the rest of their life - even if they have dementia and should be in a care home without anyone voting for them. The one where 50% of constituencies never change the political party that represents them however 50% of the electorate votes. Where we never have a government that represents a majority of the voters they are supposed to represent. Where a whole country (Scotland) often doesn't have a Westminster government that represents its citizens. Where your own UKIP gets 4million votes and one seat in parliament.

Actually, personally, I'd vote for something that didn't chip away at our 'democracy' but blew it to pieces.

Whereas the EU by comparison to the UK is a absolute paragon of democracy. Proposals are made by the (unelected) commission but can't become law unless agreed by both the Europeam Parliament (voted for by all European citizens directly) AND by the council of ministers, representing the democratically elected governments of all EU countries and needing to represent 60% of the EU population.

And before you say we get laws forced upon us, since records were made public in 1999 there have been over 4700 votes in the council of ministers. We vote for the actual outcome on over 4500 occasions and against the final proposal on 70 occasions - I've we were overuled on around 2% of issues.

Vote 'throwing my toys out of the pram' if you want but please spare us all the UKIP / Vote Leave bollocks.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"I think we need a "none of the above" option.

With the cavet that if none of the above wins then no candidate from that election can run in the rerun "

Totally agree. I don't know why Russell Brand didn't put that forward as a proposal. I think it could have had a much bigger impact.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave

I think your excellent question possess some serious issues for the future of democracy.

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

And we, now, with the internet have more information at our finger tips than any previous generation, and we have social media to bombard our friends and be bombarded by them.

No voter has ever had more information available to them than we do.

And many would say (me included) that this is one of the most important votes of our lifetime.

So with all that, if a 'normal' (sorry, I hope you don't mind being called normal) voter can't see the wood for the trees and can't decide how to vote, then I think there has to be something seriously wrong somewhere.

And that is in no way a criticism of you. It's just a reflection that if we want a functioning democracy in this country, we are going to have to do some things differently in the future.

And to answer your question. I will vote in the referendum; I vote in European elections, but I no longer vote in UK elections as I believe we have a completely broken democratic system in the UK. I live in a place where a party that I don't support and will never support has held the parliamentary seat since it was formed in 1950 and the local council seat since the local council was formed. I have realised that it's not worth my effort registering my (protest) vote. It really makes me laugh when people say the EU is undemocratic. From where I live it is far more democratic than the UK. At least in European elections my (PR) vote matters. (Sorry to bring it back to the referendum again!)

"

Pot calling kettle black, the OP specifically asked you to keep your politics out of it but you can't help yourself and had to stick your size 5 feet in didn't you (and you actually posted this on the thread before I commented). Remain supporters just can't stop themselves. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic in the way it goes about its business. There is huge democratic deficit in the EU and it does things in completely the opposite way to the UK government. Rather than elected MEP's drawing up legislation and passing it once voted on, it is the unelected commission who draw up legislation in the EU, they then pass it over to the EU parliament where MEP's only make recommendations on ammendments to it. The unelected EU commission and the council then have the power to over rule or disregard ammendments made by the MEP's if they see fit, it makes a mockery of the EU parliament and MEP's hold very little power in the EU if at all any. Complete waste of time voting for MEP's in EU elections when they don't have any real power and they can be over ruled by the unelected commission. Even when people do vote in EU elections the vast majority of people don't even know who their local MEP is. How can MEP's be held to account when most people don't even know who they are? The democratic deficit with the commissioners is even worse than the MEP's if people don't know who the elected MEP's are then they have no hope at all of naming the unelected commissioners. People want democratic accountability, they want those who rule over them to be directly elected by the people, they want to keep those in power close so they know who they are and that they can be removed at consecutive elections if they don't do what the people elected them to do. There is no democratic mechanism in place for the people of Europe to remove any EU commissioners. The whole EU way of democracy (if you can even call it that) is an absolute joke, it's anti democratic and it's anti British in the way it goes about things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think we need a "none of the above" option.

With the cavet that if none of the above wins then no candidate from that election can run in the rerun "

That's a spoilt vote. Look up Vote None. It only really matters when a significant percentage of voters do it, otherwise it'll just be passed over.

It doesn't apply in the case of a referendum. In this case, you're either in or out - there's no other outcome. Voting "none" literally doesn't make sense, not in the same political motivated way that it would in an election, it's just a waste of everyone's time. I mean, it doesn't even make sense in grammatical terms.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"I think we need a "none of the above" option.

With the cavet that if none of the above wins then no candidate from that election can run in the rerun "
now this would draw me into voting. it is a system where you could say no trust in any of them. I think it would make politicians be more honest rather than spout what they believe we want to hear.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

May be wrong but I think a spoiled vote is just that it has no impact unless in serious numbers. But if the option was on it to say no faith in any it may draw folk to the ballots

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May be wrong but I think a spoiled vote is just that it has no impact unless in serious numbers. But if the option was on it to say no faith in any it may draw folk to the ballots"

I explained it above.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

ok ... turn up to the polling station and no-one can "slam" you for not exercising your right to vote .... then spoil your ballot because you can't decide ..... and no-one will ever have to know because it's your secret .... simple

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

[Removed by poster at 02/06/16 01:10:10]

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"May be wrong but I think a spoiled vote is just that it has no impact unless in serious numbers. But if the option was on it to say no faith in any it may draw folk to the ballots

I explained it above. "
I read it its the numbers thats the problem imo. I think the norm on turnout is around 40% leaving 60% not voting at all. I think if there was a no faith box it would draw out a portion of the 60% and would also get some of the ones who would normally vote for the best of a bad lot

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By *icky55Man
over a year ago

Warm an cosy cave. Brist

I always vote, some times i vote only to get the current one out, just for the sake of the least of two evils not because i think one is better. but most of the time i deliberately spoil form by writing a comment rite across it, to make it obvious i have no faith in any of them. The spoiled votes are counted, one day politicians will get the message, listen to the people don't try and fool or con them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One of the main reasons I am voting Leave in this EU referendum is because the EU is eroding and chipping away at our democracy and our sovereignty. We need to leave the EU to keep our domestic British democracy and sovereignty in place for future generations.

And the OP SPECIFICALLY asked to keep your politics out of it, but you have to stick your size 5 feet in, don't you.

I don't care how anyone votes in the referendum - but it drives me nuts when Brexit supporter spout rubbish. Like this.

We share a degree of sovereignty with the EU for a number of things that we can't do on our own. Things like creating the largest single market in the world, representing just under 25% of the entire global GDP where we can sell our products, set up businesses, travel, move and work. That would be impossible without common rules and standards that we could not do by ourselves.

Things like creating environmental standards that would be pointless to implement in just one country.

Chipping away at our democracy? Really? That's the democracy where anyone with money can buy a seat in the House of Lords and stay there for the rest of their life - even if they have dementia and should be in a care home without anyone voting for them. The one where 50% of constituencies never change the political party that represents them however 50% of the electorate votes. Where we never have a government that represents a majority of the voters they are supposed to represent. Where a whole country (Scotland) often doesn't have a Westminster government that represents its citizens. Where your own UKIP gets 4million votes and one seat in parliament.

Actually, personally, I'd vote for something that didn't chip away at our 'democracy' but blew it to pieces.

Whereas the EU by comparison to the UK is a absolute paragon of democracy. Proposals are made by the (unelected) commission but can't become law unless agreed by both the Europeam Parliament (voted for by all European citizens directly) AND by the council of ministers, representing the democratically elected governments of all EU countries and needing to represent 60% of the EU population.

And before you say we get laws forced upon us, since records were made public in 1999 there have been over 4700 votes in the council of ministers. We vote for the actual outcome on over 4500 occasions and against the final proposal on 70 occasions - I've we were overuled on around 2% of issues.

Vote 'throwing my toys out of the pram' if you want but please spare us all the UKIP / Vote Leave bollocks.

"

Has a go at person for bringing in thier politics then does the same

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"If you don't believe in voting for (or against)a political party (or side to a referendum) then there is no point in voting."

Not so, if you don't vote who wins can claim that by not voting you tacitly support their policy. By registering a spoiled ballot paper you declare that you reject all political sides or both arguments put forward in a referendum and no one can claim your support by default.

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By *reakShow90Man
over a year ago

Manchester/halifax

I have always had it in my head that what ever or who ever we vote for we will be fucked over in the end so why bother

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"I don't know why Russell Brand didn't put that forward as a proposal. I think it could have had a much bigger impact."

Russel Brand did not propose a 'none of the above' option because for all his bluster he is interested in making money out of broadcasting and you dont do that by proposing something that will destabilise the political status quo.


"ok ... turn up to the polling station and no-one can "slam" you for not exercising your right to vote .... then spoil your ballot because you can't decide ..... and no-one will ever have to know because it's your secret .... simple "

No your vote is not secret, it never has been.

When you enter a polling station there are at least 2 people officiating. The first checks your eligibility to vote against the electoral register and places a ruler under your name, the second reads out the ballot serial number that the first records next to your name before scoring a line through your name.

The electoral register is placed in the ballot box at the end of polling and is kept with the papers and the stubs. At any time a paper can be quickly tracked to who cast the vote.

Next time you vote, switch on, open your eyes and watch the establishment functionary record your 'secret' vote.


"I read it its the numbers thats the problem imo. I think the norm on turnout is around 40% leaving 60% not voting at all. I think if there was a no faith box it would draw out a portion of the 60% and would also get some of the ones who would normally vote for the best of a bad lot "

Someone is catching on!

It is a numbers thing, between a third and two thirds of the electorate are so disillusioned by politicians that they fail to vote. While they sit quietly and bitch in places like this it is business as usual for the establishment (Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, UKIP the whole lot) and every now and then they swap seats. They have a vested interest in people NOT spoiling their ballots!

Everyone should vote! If you dont like any of the options or think that everyone has lied to you spoil your paper by writing in big print what you think on it! If enough people who usually dont vote do and spoil their papers the establishment will have a heart attack and change will happen!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I generally vote, but I'm one of those disillusioned people who believe it doesn't matter who wins, the same generic well schooled person/people, who are out of touch with 90% of the country is in charge whatever the party. Then the same media outlets forcefeed us how we should feel about certain topics just to further their interests. It's the same in most of the "free" world so I just try not to worry too much and live my life as best as I can.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

No one can be forced to vote. If I go into a shop and there is nothing I want or need am I obligated to buy anything just because it's there or just because I am in the shop? Obviously not. So if there's nobody who I was thinking to vote for or that I feel is capable of doing the job am I obliged to vote?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave "
its too big an issue. It should have been debated by Parliament and voted by Parliament.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"

ok ... turn up to the polling station and no-one can "slam" you for not exercising your right to vote .... then spoil your ballot because you can't decide ..... and no-one will ever have to know because it's your secret .... simple

No your vote is not secret, it never has been.

When you enter a polling station there are at least 2 people officiating. The first checks your eligibility to vote against the electoral register and places a ruler under your name, the second reads out the ballot serial number that the first records next to your name before scoring a line through your name.

"

it is when you scribble out the ballot number on the back of the sheet

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"I generally vote, but I'm one of those disillusioned people who believe it doesn't matter who wins, the same generic well schooled person/people, who are out of touch with 90% of the country is in charge whatever the party. Then the same media outlets forcefeed us how we should feel about certain topics just to further their interests. It's the same in most of the "free" world so I just try not to worry too much and live my life as best as I can."

Please do not bee too upset with me for pointing out that even though you say you generally vote if you are just going through motions for the sake of it you are just as bad as those who do not vote and have become one of the sheeple.

Me, I always vote and unless I am giving a personal vote to a candidate who has asked for my vote and I agree with their ideals/aims/policies I spoil my vote in a way that can not be mistaken.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"

ok ... turn up to the polling station and no-one can "slam" you for not exercising your right to vote .... then spoil your ballot because you can't decide ..... and no-one will ever have to know because it's your secret .... simple

No your vote is not secret, it never has been.

When you enter a polling station there are at least 2 people officiating. The first checks your eligibility to vote against the electoral register and places a ruler under your name, the second reads out the ballot serial number that the first records next to your name before scoring a line through your name.

it is when you scribble out the ballot number on the back of the sheet"

Ah yes...

Of course you do that to every ballot paper you are given...

And even if you do, do you seriously believe that the Crown security printers make it that easy to outmanoeuvre ballot paper traceability?

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By *eliciousladyWoman
over a year ago

Sometimes U.K


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is..I'm fine if we stay, im fine if we leave its too big an issue.

It should have been debated by Parliament and voted by Parliament. "

Yes, us women should use our vote but this EU situation is too confusing..I agree with the parliamentary suggestion, as the MP's were voted for by the public so allow them to decide for us.

Although, as an expat living in Europe I'm not sure how I'll be effected or which wax to vote!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's been given to the public to decide the outcome, that's a huge responsibility which is why I think everyone should vote.

The trouble with abstaining as in a 'No Vote' is it can't be measured ~ those who are protesting by not voting & those who just can't be bothered to vote.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave

I think your excellent question possess some serious issues for the future of democracy.

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

And we, now, with the internet have more information at our finger tips than any previous generation, and we have social media to bombard our friends and be bombarded by them.

No voter has ever had more information available to them than we do.

And many would say (me included) that this is one of the most important votes of our lifetime.

So with all that, if a 'normal' (sorry, I hope you don't mind being called normal) voter can't see the wood for the trees and can't decide how to vote, then I think there has to be something seriously wrong somewhere.

And that is in no way a criticism of you. It's just a reflection that if we want a functioning democracy in this country, we are going to have to do some things differently in the future.

And to answer your question. I will vote in the referendum; I vote in European elections, but I no longer vote in UK elections as I believe we have a completely broken democratic system in the UK. I live in a place where a party that I don't support and will never support has held the parliamentary seat since it was formed in 1950 and the local council seat since the local council was formed. I have realised that it's not worth my effort registering my (protest) vote. It really makes me laugh when people say the EU is undemocratic. From where I live it is far more democratic than the UK. At least in European elections my (PR) vote matters. (Sorry to bring it back to the referendum again!)

Pot calling kettle black, the OP specifically asked you to keep your politics out of it but you can't help yourself and had to stick your size 5 feet in didn't you (and you actually posted this on the thread before I commented). Remain supporters just can't stop themselves. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic in the way it goes about its business. There is huge democratic deficit in the EU and it does things in completely the opposite way to the UK government. Rather than elected MEP's drawing up legislation and passing it once voted on, it is the unelected commission who draw up legislation in the EU, they then pass it over to the EU parliament where MEP's only make recommendations on ammendments to it. The unelected EU commission and the council then have the power to over rule or disregard ammendments made by the MEP's if they see fit, it makes a mockery of the EU parliament and MEP's hold very little power in the EU if at all any. Complete waste of time voting for MEP's in EU elections when they don't have any real power and they can be over ruled by the unelected commission. Even when people do vote in EU elections the vast majority of people don't even know who their local MEP is. How can MEP's be held to account when most people don't even know who they are? The democratic deficit with the commissioners is even worse than the MEP's if people don't know who the elected MEP's are then they have no hope at all of naming the unelected commissioners. People want democratic accountability, they want those who rule over them to be directly elected by the people, they want to keep those in power close so they know who they are and that they can be removed at consecutive elections if they don't do what the people elected them to do. There is no democratic mechanism in place for the people of Europe to remove any EU commissioners. The whole EU way of democracy (if you can even call it that) is an absolute joke, it's anti democratic and it's anti British in the way it goes about things. "

Brexit side all over. Complete and deliberate lies. Again.

How you think I posted my comment before your comment is beyond me -and everyone else on the thread.

Still, never let evidence and facts get in the way....

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

[Removed by poster at 02/06/16 08:43:05]

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"Has a go at person for bringing in thier politics then does the same"

Yes, hangs head in shame! Two wrongs don't make a right, so I apologise.

On so many threads and posts on here there's a hardcore of Brexit supports who trot out their opinion as fact. Of course, it's not fact. It's opinion and exceptionally biased and warped opinion at that - in my view of course.

Who was it that said "all that is required for evil to succeed if for the good to not reply to lies"?

OK - I made that last bit up and before the Brexit crew jump on IT WAS A JOKE!

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By *eliciousladyWoman
over a year ago

Sometimes U.K

Am I the only person who has no idea what Bretex is?

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By *eliciousladyWoman
over a year ago

Sometimes U.K

Opps Brexit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am I the only person who has no idea what Bretex is? "
dont they make water filters?

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By *eliciousladyWoman
over a year ago

Sometimes U.K


"Am I the only person who has no idea what Bretex is? dont they make water filters? "

Are they made in the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

its your call, your choice

just consider the outcome; will you be okay with what happens either way?

or will you look back and say "shit, I so wish I voted"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am I the only person who has no idea what Bretex is? dont they make water filters? "

I think it's children's car seats...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I tend to not vote because the post box is too far away to post my vote. If they did online voting I'd be more inclined to"

If you go to work you could post your vote there with the work post.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford


"Am I the only person who has no idea what Bretex is? dont they make water filters?

I think it's children's car seats..."

..don't they try build walls....walls around communities and people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As for the referendum I'm undecided. ...UK and local politics I won't vote as they're all pretty much the same...All in it for themselves. .....when I don't vote I represent myself. ...now say if an mp abstains or is told to vote a certain way to toe the party line.....that mp represents possibly tens of thousands. ...food for thought

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Should I feel left out that no-one died specifically to give me the right to vote?

Labour first gave me the vote at 18, in the hope it would increase their chances of winning future elections and now I meet the property criteria of the 19th century.

That said, I'm not sure anyone died specifically to give the majority of women the right to vote. The suffragettes were happy to stick with the property restriction, they didn't want to working classes involved either.

Mr ddc

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave

I think your excellent question possess some serious issues for the future of democracy.

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

And we, now, with the internet have more information at our finger tips than any previous generation, and we have social media to bombard our friends and be bombarded by them.

No voter has ever had more information available to them than we do.

And many would say (me included) that this is one of the most important votes of our lifetime.

So with all that, if a 'normal' (sorry, I hope you don't mind being called normal) voter can't see the wood for the trees and can't decide how to vote, then I think there has to be something seriously wrong somewhere.

And that is in no way a criticism of you. It's just a reflection that if we want a functioning democracy in this country, we are going to have to do some things differently in the future.

And to answer your question. I will vote in the referendum; I vote in European elections, but I no longer vote in UK elections as I believe we have a completely broken democratic system in the UK. I live in a place where a party that I don't support and will never support has held the parliamentary seat since it was formed in 1950 and the local council seat since the local council was formed. I have realised that it's not worth my effort registering my (protest) vote. It really makes me laugh when people say the EU is undemocratic. From where I live it is far more democratic than the UK. At least in European elections my (PR) vote matters. (Sorry to bring it back to the referendum again!)

Pot calling kettle black, the OP specifically asked you to keep your politics out of it but you can't help yourself and had to stick your size 5 feet in didn't you (and you actually posted this on the thread before I commented). Remain supporters just can't stop themselves. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic in the way it goes about its business. There is huge democratic deficit in the EU and it does things in completely the opposite way to the UK government. Rather than elected MEP's drawing up legislation and passing it once voted on, it is the unelected commission who draw up legislation in the EU, they then pass it over to the EU parliament where MEP's only make recommendations on ammendments to it. The unelected EU commission and the council then have the power to over rule or disregard ammendments made by the MEP's if they see fit, it makes a mockery of the EU parliament and MEP's hold very little power in the EU if at all any. Complete waste of time voting for MEP's in EU elections when they don't have any real power and they can be over ruled by the unelected commission. Even when people do vote in EU elections the vast majority of people don't even know who their local MEP is. How can MEP's be held to account when most people don't even know who they are? The democratic deficit with the commissioners is even worse than the MEP's if people don't know who the elected MEP's are then they have no hope at all of naming the unelected commissioners. People want democratic accountability, they want those who rule over them to be directly elected by the people, they want to keep those in power close so they know who they are and that they can be removed at consecutive elections if they don't do what the people elected them to do. There is no democratic mechanism in place for the people of Europe to remove any EU commissioners. The whole EU way of democracy (if you can even call it that) is an absolute joke, it's anti democratic and it's anti British in the way it goes about things.

Brexit side all over. Complete and deliberate lies. Again.

How you think I posted my comment before your comment is beyond me -and everyone else on the thread.

Still, never let evidence and facts get in the way....

"

Its very easy to find out who from the 2 of us commented on the thread first. Start from the beginning of the thread and scroll down the page. I think you will find you posted first on the thread before me, giving some of your political views about the EU and that was your first post on this thread which i quoted. Then you have the gall to criticise me for posting my views. Still, never let evidence and facts get in the way.....

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"I don't understand, particularly women not using their right to. It was only 1918 when over 30s with property got to. 1920 I think when all over 21 year old women got the vote. And yes members of the WPSU were force fed and tortured. So I think it's a shame that when others fought so hard for that right,it isn't used. So I'll always vote.

Think the whole EU referendum thing is the only thing i just cant get my head around,, its all propaganda and have no idea what is legit and what is bullshit.. Im trying to form an opinion either way but the truth is,, im fine f we stay, im fine if we leave

I think your excellent question possess some serious issues for the future of democracy.

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

And we, now, with the internet have more information at our finger tips than any previous generation, and we have social media to bombard our friends and be bombarded by them.

No voter has ever had more information available to them than we do.

And many would say (me included) that this is one of the most important votes of our lifetime.

So with all that, if a 'normal' (sorry, I hope you don't mind being called normal) voter can't see the wood for the trees and can't decide how to vote, then I think there has to be something seriously wrong somewhere.

And that is in no way a criticism of you. It's just a reflection that if we want a functioning democracy in this country, we are going to have to do some things differently in the future.

And to answer your question. I will vote in the referendum; I vote in European elections, but I no longer vote in UK elections as I believe we have a completely broken democratic system in the UK. I live in a place where a party that I don't support and will never support has held the parliamentary seat since it was formed in 1950 and the local council seat since the local council was formed. I have realised that it's not worth my effort registering my (protest) vote. It really makes me laugh when people say the EU is undemocratic. From where I live it is far more democratic than the UK. At least in European elections my (PR) vote matters. (Sorry to bring it back to the referendum again!)

Pot calling kettle black, the OP specifically asked you to keep your politics out of it but you can't help yourself and had to stick your size 5 feet in didn't you (and you actually posted this on the thread before I commented). Remain supporters just can't stop themselves. The EU is fundamentally undemocratic in the way it goes about its business. There is huge democratic deficit in the EU and it does things in completely the opposite way to the UK government. Rather than elected MEP's drawing up legislation and passing it once voted on, it is the unelected commission who draw up legislation in the EU, they then pass it over to the EU parliament where MEP's only make recommendations on ammendments to it. The unelected EU commission and the council then have the power to over rule or disregard ammendments made by the MEP's if they see fit, it makes a mockery of the EU parliament and MEP's hold very little power in the EU if at all any. Complete waste of time voting for MEP's in EU elections when they don't have any real power and they can be over ruled by the unelected commission. Even when people do vote in EU elections the vast majority of people don't even know who their local MEP is. How can MEP's be held to account when most people don't even know who they are? The democratic deficit with the commissioners is even worse than the MEP's if people don't know who the elected MEP's are then they have no hope at all of naming the unelected commissioners. People want democratic accountability, they want those who rule over them to be directly elected by the people, they want to keep those in power close so they know who they are and that they can be removed at consecutive elections if they don't do what the people elected them to do. There is no democratic mechanism in place for the people of Europe to remove any EU commissioners. The whole EU way of democracy (if you can even call it that) is an absolute joke, it's anti democratic and it's anti British in the way it goes about things.

Brexit side all over. Complete and deliberate lies. Again.

How you think I posted my comment before your comment is beyond me -and everyone else on the thread.

Still, never let evidence and facts get in the way....

Its very easy to find out who from the 2 of us commented on the thread first. Start from the beginning of the thread and scroll down the page. I think you will find you posted first on the thread before me, giving some of your political views about the EU and that was your first post on this thread which i quoted. Then you have the gall to criticise me for posting my views. Still, never let evidence and facts get in the way....."

In fact i just counted the posts, your first post on the thread was 18 posts into the thread. My first post on the thread was 53 posts into the thread, anyone with half a brain cell can see that means you posted on the thread before i did.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"I shall be voting I always do "

Me too, in fact as I postal vote, already done it.

Mrs DDC

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Try and vote just to keep my own cynicism in check

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you dont vote you dont get your say! Its so important to take 5 mins out of your day to do!

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By *obsrocketMan
over a year ago

Loughborough

I always vote, it amazes me how people will moan about how our country is being run yet not bother to vote and potentially change what happens. As an example people hate the idea of the so called bedroom tax but how many people who could not be bothered to vote are now directly affected by it. I also have friends who worked in local government one of them who usually voted Labour didn't bother to vote. The Tories got back in and he has now been made redundant. But this of course is only my opinion and we all live in a democracy.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"Im not interested in people's political stance on varying issues but if a person genuinely has no opinion either way or undecided is it better for them not to vote?

I've seen people get slammed for not using the opportunity to vote as people died for the right etc

"

It's called abstaining and is a perfectly acceptable action in a democracy.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


"

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

"

Actually if you look into history you will find that women had exactly the same right to vote as men until 1918 when that right was taken away from them until it was replaced in 1928

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By *hingford manMan
over a year ago

highams park East London

Only people who don't care about anything or anyone would choose not to vote

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"Only people who don't care about anything or anyone would choose not to vote"
what nonsense im one of these care not people you speak of. and I can assure you I have a very strong grasp of politics. I choose to abstain as a means of showing no confidence in any party or person standing. A very narrowminded view you have there

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"I tend to not vote because the post box is too far away to post my vote. If they did online voting I'd be more inclined to"

And yet you 'can travel' for a meet?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Only people who don't care about anything or anyone would choose not to vote"

your getting mixed up with depression

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

As has been said people died for the right for universal suffrage - and not that long ago either (actually it was 1928 when women got equal voting rights with men in the UK).

Actually if you look into history you will find that women had exactly the same right to vote as men until 1918 when that right was taken away from them until it was replaced in 1928"

That's really not the case.

Try

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_the_United_Kingdom

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i do care but i won't be voting.

i know when my opinion isn't really wanted because i hold no actual power over what happens anyway.

i know when people want to collect data on what i think it's for their own benefit and not for mine, and it's so they can try and convince me that they know what's best for me more than i do.

fuck politics. *wishes there was an anarchy smiley*

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"i do care but i won't be voting.

i know when my opinion isn't really wanted because i hold no actual power over what happens anyway.

i know when people want to collect data on what i think it's for their own benefit and not for mine, and it's so they can try and convince me that they know what's best for me more than i do.

fuck politics. *wishes there was an anarchy smiley*"
lol strange you mention anarchy as I think its what is needed to fix politics in this country. A term of honest nutters would make the rest take note and up their game

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