FabSwingers.com forum: Ched Evans

By *olgate OP Man
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Has been ordered to stand trial again in October.

He was released halfway through his last sentence for rape after his last conviction was quashed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trial by media at its finest

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

So is he now innocent of said crime? I'm confused at all this retrial stuff why has he got to stand trial again?

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By *olgate OP Man
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Problems with the first trial meant it was an unsafe conviction. There is still a case to answer.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

So if hes found guilty he will continue his sentence if innocent he will be free to try and pick up the pieces of his life.

I do prefer it when the courts decide rather than media and hysterical public

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So is he now innocent of said crime? I'm confused at all this retrial stuff why has he got to stand trial again? "

At the moment he is innocent, the first conviction was quashed because of new evidence which wasn't presented at the first trial. He will probably get a not guilty verdict at the new trial

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"So if hes found guilty he will continue his sentence if innocent he will be free to try and pick up the pieces of his life.

No, Mr C got that bit wrong. Evans was released halfway through his sentence because that is what happens to most criminals. His case was reviewed and quashed much later.

So technically, if convicted and sentenced to no more than the original 5 years, he will still be free.

The case is more about trying to clear his name, some say due to a civil claim for substantial financial damages.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Amazing how this new evidence just magically appeared. Nothing at all to do with money buying you what ever you need! Even more so when it's the money of the dad of the woman you cheated on and admit cheating on even if he didn't do the crime. What a fucked up family they are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Amazing how this new evidence just magically appeared. Nothing at all to do with money buying you what ever you need! Even more so when it's the money of the dad of the woman you cheated on and admit cheating on even if he didn't do the crime. What a fucked up family they are. "

Strange answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's all been a case of trial by.media..shocking. If he is now proved innocent with a retrial he must be allowed to move on with his life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Strange answer"

Well 2 appeals failed to clear him, the poor lass who it happened too had to change her name and move 3 times because of him and the all of a sudden new magical evidence appears. All very suspect and just typical of the money can buy you anything society we live in.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"So if hes found guilty he will continue his sentence if innocent he will be free to try and pick up the pieces of his life.

No, Mr C got that bit wrong. Evans was released halfway through his sentence because that is what happens to most criminals. His case was reviewed and quashed much later.

So technically, if convicted and sentenced to no more than the original 5 years, he will still be free.

The case is more about trying to clear his name, some say due to a civil claim for substantial financial damages.

Mr ddc"
always nice to get the proper facts. So he did what every one else does serve the time and this is to clear his name if he is innocent.

This is why i prefer facts to hysteria

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"It's all been a case of trial by.media..shocking. If he is now proved innocent with a retrial he must be allowed to move on with his life."
exactly.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Strange answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is his retrial. He has already been found guilty, then failed on 2 separate occasions with his appeal. That's why it's all very dodgy.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"This is his retrial. He has already been found guilty, then failed on 2 separate occasions with his appeal. That's why it's all very dodgy. "
so the case wasnt reviewed and quashed as was said by mr ddc further up the thread?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It has been now yes, but this was previous to it been quashed which is why it's all a but much to believe this evidence is real for me.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Dare i ask what the new evidence is thats so suspect?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We aren't allowed to know yet. But amazing that after 3 separate court cases this evidence was nowhere to be found then all of a sudden it's there. Just don't buy it.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"This is his retrial. He has already been found guilty, then failed on 2 separate occasions with his appeal. That's why it's all very dodgy. "

He wasn't allowed to appeal, not his appeal was heard but rejected.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excuse my wording, yes he tried for appeals on two separate occasions but there was no point as he couldn't provide any new evidence

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"We aren't allowed to know yet. But amazing that after 3 separate court cases this evidence was nowhere to be found then all of a sudden it's there. Just don't buy it. "
im actually creased up. Noone knows what the new evidence is yet its automatically being dismissed as dodgy.

Oh i love a good public execution

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Excuse my wording, yes he tried for appeals on two separate occasions but there was no point as he couldn't provide any new evidence "
hang on you just said they had failed how could they fail if they werent heard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Despite Ched Evens being an unpleasant individual this is not the first time that new evidence is discovered late in the day.

In America there have been people who have served 20 years before new evidence exonerating them is discovered.

Would it be too much to wait and see what happens at the retrial before deciding on his guilt or innocence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We aren't allowed to know yet. But amazing that after 3 separate court cases this evidence was nowhere to be found then all of a sudden it's there. Just don't buy it. im actually creased up. Noone knows what the new evidence is yet its automatically being dismissed as dodgy.

Oh i love a good public execution

Well you talk about trial by media and public execution, how about exoneration by celebrity. Won't be the first or last time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Despite Ched Evens being an unpleasant individual this is not the first time that new evidence is discovered late in the day.

In America there have been people who have served 20 years before new evidence exonerating them is discovered.

Would it be too much to wait and see what happens at the retrial before deciding on his guilt or innocence.

"
when has common sense and facts ever got in the way of a bit of juicy hysteria

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober. "

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Oh i love a good public execution

Well you talk about trial by media and public execution, how about exoneration by celebrity. Won't be the first or last time. "
and what about people not having a clue what they talking about you would have had me believe two different things if a) i believed you b) if someone hadnt come along with the proper facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did. "

People cheat everyday, it's not criminal. It just doesn't make them nice people. I don't think Ched Evans will ever be likeable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist."

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did. "
oh i thought he was being tried for rape not his morals. Now i am confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh i love a good public execution

Well you talk about trial by media and public execution, how about exoneration by celebrity. Won't be the first or last time. and what about people not having a clue what they talking about you would have had me believe two different things if a) i believed you b) if someone hadnt come along with the proper facts"

There is very little difference in failing at an appeal and failing to get one. In fact to me it proves his guilt more that he couldn't even get the trial as the evidence was that damming against him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did. oh i thought he was being tried for rape not his morals. Now i am confused"

They didn't say he was a rapist because he cheated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if hes found guilty he will continue his sentence if innocent he will be free to try and pick up the pieces of his life.

No, Mr C got that bit wrong. Evans was released halfway through his sentence because that is what happens to most criminals. His case was reviewed and quashed much later.

So technically, if convicted and sentenced to no more than the original 5 years, he will still be free.

The case is more about trying to clear his name, some say due to a civil claim for substantial financial damages.

Mr ddc"
.

He's broke, he's currently being financed by his father in law, I doubt he'll ever be employed as a footballer again regardless, he's already been tried by the public it's pretty hard to overturn that

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist."
and women your.usually both pissed when you where on the pull on a friday.night

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist."

Exactly right ... and the new evidence is the girls phone that turned up with explicit messages to him ....

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did. oh i thought he was being tried for rape not his morals. Now i am confused

They didn't say he was a rapist because he cheated."
i didnt say that, i thought it was a rape case i have no idea what whether hes cheating on his.girlfriend or.not.has to do it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The court system, thank good goodness, is not an arbiter of public 'morals'. If it was, most of us on this site would be in prison.

I don't know and have never met Evans so I can't decide is he's a 'good bloke' or not - I will not take some journalists slant on it either.

As for cheating on his girlfriend. How many of the 'single guys' on here are actually single? I'd wager as many as 50% have some form of attachment and their partners/wives know nothing of their presence on here. People in glass houses and all that. How Evans conducts his private life is his business and don't give me all that crap about 'role models'. He's not a vicar or politician.

The new evidence must have already passed some form of 'test' for it to have warranted and retrial. The defence will have made submissions and a judge will have made and assessment.

What could it be? Who knows, the jury will decide. There have been cases where a rape has been alleged and then social media posts or texts from the 'victims' have shed new light on matters. Regret is not rape.

Having said that he may be found guilty again. The jury, having assessed all the evidence will decide and thank goodness it's them and not the public, kangaroo court of morals and opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Exactly right ... and the new evidence is the girls phone that turned up with explicit messages to him ...."

How do you know that?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Exactly right ... and the new evidence is the girls phone that turned up with explicit messages to him ...."
oh so we are allowed to know the new.evidence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't know if he'll be convicted a rapist, but he definitely did something morally wrong. I saw the footage of the girl stumbling and she was in no way sober.

That and he cheated on his girlfriend in the process of doing what ever he did. oh i thought he was being tried for rape not his morals. Now i am confused

They didn't say he was a rapist because he cheated.i didnt say that, i thought it was a rape case i have no idea what whether hes cheating on his.girlfriend or.not.has to do it"

It was in context with my post questioning his moral judgment.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes."

That's the bit I don't quite understand about the current system (and I appreciate this is going to be contentious): two people get d*unk and have sex, but the following morning only one of them is at risk of being arrested.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally."

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though.

Universities recommend recording all sexual activity?!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally."
things have changed so much since i used to go out on the pull. I know exaxtly what i think and im bloody glad im not young again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well you talk about trial by media and public execution, how about exoneration by celebrity. Won't be the first or last time. "

There does seem to be quite a lot of condemnation by celebrity around these days too.

I have no knowledge of the events that night, nor I suspect do many others. potentially even the victim/s as all involved were apparently too d*unk to remember clearly.

It appears that because it was a threesome and not a couple he Media have found the third person guilty without reference to the facts.

This case needs personalities stripped out of it and a blanket ban on media attention so impartial open minded review of the evidence is possible.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though.

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By *ildt123Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally."

Yes difficult. I guess its a mixture of old fashioned values ( criminal justice does not change quickly) and biology, for a woman to rape a man by vaginal penetration by the penis arousal is required, now he may not have consented verbally but his below the waist brain said yes

Too d*unk to consent is rape, how that is provable and at what point someone is too d*unk and what does their behaviour imply consent is a whole different set of criteria

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though.

It says something when the advice to young men at university now is to record the whole sexual act on your mobile - not for later self-gratification, but just in case you're accused of rape the following day. "
actually ive changed my mind on written concent as they can still change their mind. So for someone to be 100% guaranteed whether the other party is d*unk or sober is to film the whole thing from start to finish every time you have sex

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He was found guilty because she is saying she couldn't remember if she said yes or not. NOT that she said NO full stop.

Every man that pulls a bird in a club on a Friday night is now a potential rapist.

Being so d*unk that she can't remember saying yes or no suggests that she was too d*unk to say yes.

I'm not sure what that says about equality, nor how capable to we consider women to be generally.

That's a question for the Supreme Court and not this case, though.

It says something when the advice to young men at university now is to record the whole sexual act on your mobile - not for later self-gratification, but just in case you're accused of rape the following day. actually ive changed my mind on written concent as they can still change their mind. So for someone to be 100% guaranteed whether the other party is d*unk or sober is to film the whole thing from start to finish every time you have sex"

You could be forced to "consent" under duress during the filming period. All methods have flaws.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Orrr don't rape people, don't have sex with people too intoxicated to consent and live kid like an average person.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Strange answer

She moved because of members of the public naming and shaming her, it wasn't him! He was in jail.... Read up on the known facts of the case... She lied don't believe the hype!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Orrr don't rape people, don't have sex with people too intoxicated to consent and live kid like an average person. "
not everyone accused of rape is a rapist and not everyone accused of rape is when the other is under the influence

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Orrr don't rape people, don't have sex with people too intoxicated to consent and live kid like an average person. not everyone accused of rape is a rapist and not everyone accused of rape is when the other is under the influence

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused"

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

"
that seems to be the only 100% gurantee

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused"

I don't see how that relates to what I said? Anyway, it's possible to avoid being convicted of rape. Most people live their entire lives without being convicted of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused"

Which is why I said Victim/s in my post above. I think either or both may be victims of the crime (though I don't know for sure what the crime is)

Both are defiantly victims of the media and social networks.

And potentially there are thousands more victims of future too d*unk to remember occasions, and unfortunately some women will be raped and be too scared of the media fall out to report it. allowing rapists to stay free.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

I don't see how that relates to what I said? Anyway, it's possible to avoid being convicted of rape. Most people live their entire lives without being convicted of it. "
most people do yes but i see more and more in the media of people wrongly accused i dont want to detract from people that are actually raped but there are people using it far more as a "revenge" than ever was. Im not saying its the norm but happens more. I would be interested in how things become over the next 10 years. If i was a young man today id be bloody worried

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By *aulnorthumberlandMan
over a year ago

Blyth

Well totally different to the cctv of her in the hotel iv seen part of her defence was that she was d*unk to run back outside and pic up a pizza then walk back in to join her other footballer friend suggests maybe not sober but no way d*unk/smashed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

Which is why I said Victim/s in my post above. I think either or both may be victims of the crime (though I don't know for sure what the crime is)

Both are defiantly victims of the media and social networks.

Open justice has to take place to show that true and honest justice is occurring. If something happened to the detriment of the defendant, it'd be in their interest for it to be known.

Some non celebrity women are scared of the backlash within communities, or the toll that trials take on mental health. The media backlash is not something that will occur to a lot of victims as the majority aren't famous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh i love a good public execution

I hope you're not called for jury duty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I knew it,i just knew it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

I don't see how that relates to what I said? Anyway, it's possible to avoid being convicted of rape. Most people live their entire lives without being convicted of it. most people do yes but i see more and more in the media of people wrongly accused i dont want to detract from people that are actually raped but there are people using it far more as a "revenge" than ever was. Im not saying its the norm but happens more. I would be interested in how things become over the next 10 years. If i was a young man today id be bloody worried"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well totally different to the cctv of her in the hotel iv seen part of her defence was that she was d*unk to run back outside and pic up a pizza then walk back in to join her other footballer friend suggests maybe not sober but no way d*unk/smashed"

I saw the same cctv evidence, it didn't suggest she was smashed at all, not the speed she recovered her pizza in heels!

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

I think it's a shame that you're more concerned about potential false claims than the high number of actual assaults going unreported. Only around 15% of women who claim to have been a victim of sexual violence go through with pressing charges. "
im not more concerned i said i dont want to detract. Its disgusting crime but ive seen the outcome from both sides. And false claims have risen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

I think it's a shame that you're more concerned about potential false claims than the high number of actual assaults going unreported. Only around 15% of women who claim to have been a victim of sexual violence go through with pressing charges. im not more concerned i said i dont want to detract. Its disgusting crime but ive seen the outcome from both sides. And false claims have risen."

Which report are you using to support that? All I can see is a CPS one from 2011-12, which says 35 false accusations were prosecuted out of 5651 rape prosecutions. This doesn't account for cases not prosecuted, however that's not your point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jeez, that's a flawed piece of advice if I've ever heard one. What's the advice to young women ?

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jeez, that's a flawed piece of advice if I've ever heard one. What's the advice to young women ?

Sarah "
I've never been given that advice lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The court system, thank good goodness, is not an arbiter of public 'morals'. If it was, most of us on this site would be in prison.

I don't know and have never met Evans so I can't decide is he's a 'good bloke' or not - I will not take some journalists slant on it either.

well done dude. Such objectivity is strangely missing.

The new evidence must have already passed some form of 'test' for it to have warranted and retrial. The defence will have made submissions and a judge will have made and assessment.

Having said that he may be found guilty again. The jury, having assessed all the evidence will decide and thank goodness it's them and not the public, kangaroo court of morals and opinion. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's a shame that you're more concerned about potential false claims than the high number of actual assaults going unreported. Only around 15% of women who claim to have been a victim of sexual violence go through with pressing charges. "

Every proven false claim makes proving real rape harder and adds to the number of unreported, many unreported rapes leave rapists on the streets to potentially add another victim.

I don't know the answer, but I am pretty sure trial by media and mass guessing of the facts are not a solution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

That figure tells us nothing though expect that 15% of people reporting a claim have followed it through.

It could be that 85% had made the claim up, I'm not saying it is, but statistics are terribly misleading in cases like this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

That figure tells us nothing though expect that 15% of people reporting a claim have followed it through.

It could be that 85% had made the claim up, I'm not saying it is, but statistics are terribly misleading in cases like this"

It tells you that 15% made a police report. Perhaps you ought to complain to the ONS if you think they're so terrible at gathering data.

"Around one in twenty females (aged 16 to 59) reported being a victim of a most serious sexual offence since the age of 16. Extending this to include other sexual offences such as sexual threats, unwanted touching or indecent exposure, this increased to one in five females reporting being a victim since the age of 16.

Around 90 per cent of victims of the most serious sexual offences in the previous year knew the perpetrator, compared with less than half for other sexual offences.

Females who had reported being victims of the most serious sexual offences in the last year were asked, regarding the most recent incident, whether or not they had reported the incident to the police. Only 15 per cent of victims of such offences said that they had done so. Frequently cited reasons for not reporting the crime were that it was ‘embarrassing’, they ‘didn’t think the police could do much to help’, that the incident was ‘too trivial or not worth reporting’, or that they saw it as a ‘private/family matter and not police business'."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the way forward is............. Don't drink, don't meet the opposite sex, or same sex is so inclined, don't get intimate at all........... Live life as a hermit

Rape is a vile crime and ruins peoples lives but peoples lives have been ruined by being falsly accused

That figure tells us nothing though expect that 15% of people reporting a claim have followed it through.

It could be that 85% had made the claim up, I'm not saying it is, but statistics are terribly misleading in cases like this

It tells you that 15% made a police report. Perhaps you ought to complain to the ONS if you think they're so terrible at gathering data.

Around 90 per cent of victims of the most serious sexual offences in the previous year knew the perpetrator, compared with less than half for other sexual offences.

Males can be raped aswell btw

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just signed for Chesterfield - technically he's an innocent man until / if found guilty at the re-trial, surprised though that someone has taken him on ahead of the court hearing

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

So the new trial has started today and the prosecution will open the case in about an hours time.

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By *atietvsheffTV/TS
over a year ago

Sheffield

The evidence was available at the time Of the original trial I believe, probably not the finest thing filmed on a mobile phone but the original judge for whatever reason would not allow it to be used, based on this evidence (pre his original trial) I was reliably informed by a board director at SUFC that everyone was sure he would be found not guilty, but at the trial the judge would not allow it to be used and he was convicted, clearly the appeals judges have seen the evidence and therefore quashed the original verdict and ordered a retrial where the evidence could be submitted. It's nothing about having his GF's family support Ched financially to get a retrial, it's about allowing all the evidence to be put before a judge and jury as anyone would want to have done in a fair and legal system, if he is innocent then he is innocent and if guilty after all the evidence then he is guilty but this country has had far too many cover ups with miscarriage of justices and we should do the Igor thing and let people be judged fairly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just signed for Chesterfield - technically he's an innocent man until / if found guilty at the re-trial, surprised though that someone has taken him on ahead of the court hearing"

Or maybe they knew it was a farce all along.

Maybe the girl ain't going to get her mini after all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's "

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dis she not post a lover Facebook that night after he went that she had had sex with her .

Smacks of gold digger to me

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"................

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

............... "

What lies has she told?

AFAIK she just said that she couldnt remember anything and the CPS put a rape charge together based on the fact that she was too d*unk to consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dis she not post a lover Facebook that night after he went that she had had sex with her .

Smacks of gold digger to me "

She's under the witness protection scheme (which is incredibly unusual for a victim), has had to leave her home and family, yeah that sounds like gold digging

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

What lies. Even Evans accepts the facts of the night, that havibg returned home he got a text from his friend that he 'had a girl' and on that basis Evans went to the hotel, lied to get in and had sex with her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All the same these lot who have money,they just know everyone has a price and they are used to getting their own way by using money. If a jury finds you guilty the chances are you are guilty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ...."

Look pal there is no 'but'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'"

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates. "

Don't shag women who are too drink to consent. It's pretty simple really

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

People make mistakes as well as break the law - that stands to sense. Rape is under-reported and prosecuted and false accusations are but a tiny element of the whole nasty business.

We all as adults need to ensure that the vulnerable are in a position to consent to whatever we engage them in. If we're cognitively compromised ourselves then we also need to seek measures that protect others from us, until such time as we're distant from others who could be at some risk from our presence and behaviour. If I perceived others were at risk from me then I would not drive or meet people, unless they were to provide assistance to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

None of that is illegal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

None of that is illegal"

Yes I know. But if she didn't consent (and she clearly didn't invite him to the room) that's illegal.

And lets be honest most of us when having sex if we suddenly found a 3rd person in the room we would probably not see that as a cue for a 3sum

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

None of that is illegal

Yes I know. But if she didn't consent (and she clearly didn't invite him to the room) that's illegal.

And lets be honest most of us when having sex if we suddenly found a 3rd person in the room we would probably not see that as a cue for a 3sum"

If she didn't consent the guy listening outside in the corridor probably wouldn't have heard her having an orgasm. And you're right most people wouldn't notice a third person in the room and think oh great a threeesome, but most people who are raped don't turn to Twitter a few hours later bragging about a big pay day coming

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates. "

There is no but in my world,you take the appropriate actions before you go round shagging,the but is not acceptable in 2016 so you can cry all you want about your 'mate',there is no but..you have either raped or you haven't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

None of that is illegal

Yes I know. But if she didn't consent (and she clearly didn't invite him to the room) that's illegal.

And lets be honest most of us when having sex if we suddenly found a 3rd person in the room we would probably not see that as a cue for a 3sum

Do you have a link to that allegation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?"

Of course not. But I have seen men in nightclubs target women that can barely stand. It's predatory and wring. Although there is of course a grey area and similarly personal responsibility comes in to play

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?"

Are you accustomed to breathalysing your intended victims/partners?

Only you can answer your own question. Idiot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?

Absolutely agree, and this entire case has been constructed within that grey area. She may have been d*unk, but certainly not passed out d*unk and unable to consent. Possibly d*unk enough to do something she regretted the next morning. Also possibly d*unk but sober enough to still make a judgement on something she wanted to do but then capitalised on it the next morning.

Yeah it's creepy that he went to join them and had sex with her but that's not rape

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?

Are you accustomed to breathalysing your intended victims/partners?

Only you can answer your own question. Idiot"

There's no need for insults.

My point being I could easily drink say 3 glasses of wine, be over the legal limit for driving, technically unable to give consent for sex, but if you saw me in a club you'd have no idea I'd drank that much and could very easily fall victim to the same situation.

It's a very scary idea that girls can have sex with someone after a few drinks then cry rape the next day

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By *he Devils Daughter!Woman
over a year ago

some where in yorkshire

"This is his retrial. He has already been found guilty, then failed on 2 separate occasions with his appeal. That's why it's all very dodgy. "

He's guilty!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?

Are you accustomed to breathalysing your intended victims/partners?

Only you can answer your own question. Idiot

There's no need for insults.

It's a very scary idea that girls can have sex with someone after a few drinks then cry rape the next day"

My point being that we need to make it clear there will be no escape through grey areas if you sexually take advantage of anyone and that is the point I was making. People talking about their 'mate' that got stitched up and breathalysers just muddies the water of what is a quite simple principle,was it with consent or not? The rapists have been getting away with it for too long so I'm all for stopping them and protecting vulnerable persons

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

I'm coming a bit late to this, but from what I remember of the original case I would suspect Ched will be found not guilty.

I think no accusation was ever made by the girl, the police got involved because of a claim for a lost mobile phone, Ched Evans willingly admitting having consensual sex with her and she apparently consented to sex with another guy 15 mins before and had no more drinks inbetween. If the mobile footage is to be believed it seems hard to believe anyone would actually try to record a rape and not intervene.

Her name was released by the public, not Ched Evans, he served time in prison and was released for good behaviour not because of an appeal process.

I seem to remember tremendous public criticism and a widespread feeling that he should not be further employed (because he supposedly should be setting an example) despite having been punished for a crime he has always denied. Nick Clegg (a former deputy primeminister no less) even suggested he should apologise!!

Best of luck Ched, although I'm sure what happened that night could have been viewed by many as unsavoury, in my opinion there was not enough evidence to prove that rape had occurred beyond reasonable doubt. The sooner this is resolved all parties can start to get on with the rest of their lives

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He will walk from this for sure . I think she was just after a nice payday out of him . He's paid a high price for his cheating for sure .

If he's found innocent she should be put on trial for the lies she has told .

Just my opinion and i know mines not the same as everyone's

I think what people realise is he didn't get found guilty because she said no it was because she can't remember saying yes.

It's a big big warning to every man in the country that meets a girl d*unk on drugs or both.

Of course every women has the right to say no. Or course every women should be protected. But ....

Look pal there is no 'but'

Look pal ha ha ha ha ha

There is a but PAL when women wake up the next morning and regret what they have done and ruin a mans life like what happened to one of my mates.

Do the appropriate actions include a breathalyser on the woman you're about to shag?

Are you accustomed to breathalysing your intended victims/partners?

Only you can answer your own question. Idiot

There's no need for insults.

It's a very scary idea that girls can have sex with someone after a few drinks then cry rape the next day

I'm all for that too. I'd think most people would want to protect anyone from being raped. The problem is this case opens up the opportunity for any man who has sex with a woman who has had a few drinks to then be accused of rape, and that's scary

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

It's a very scary idea that girls can have sex with someone after a few drinks then cry rape the next day"

I don't think being over the driving limit, means you are unable to legally give consent to sex.

Not sure if that's what you meant?

There is a CPS documents online about consent.

It is not black and white. It has to be shown that the accused didn't have reasonable grounds to believe there was consent. i.e if she was clearly incapable to consent, then rape could well be inferred.

Remember this is at trial now and things that people say here, specifically making allegations at either party, can be illegal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm coming a bit late to this, but from what I remember of the original case I would suspect Ched will be found not guilty.

Her name was released by the public, not Ched Evans, he served time in prison and was released for good behaviour not because of an appeal process.

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By *piritsonfabCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

I've heard the girl faced strong pressure from the police to go ahead with her report despite her reluctance.

Sadly I can't remember where I read that, but from personal experience I'd guess that could easily be true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a very scary idea that girls can have sex with someone after a few drinks then cry rape the next day

I don't think being over the driving limit, means you are unable to legally give consent to sex.

Not sure if that's what you meant?

There is a CPS documents online about consent.

Remember this is at trial now and things that people say here, specifically making allegations at either party, can be illegal."

No I kind of meant those as seperated things but both illustrating that you can't always tell how much someone has had to drink and therefore how d*unk they are. It's a terrifying thought for one night stands if the law states that women are unable to give consent if they're d*unk and therefore any man who has sex with them is a rapist

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"I'm coming a bit late to this, but from what I remember of the original case I would suspect Ched will be found not guilty.

Her name was released by the public, not Ched Evans, he served time in prison and was released for good behaviour not because of an appeal process.

What you have said is why he is in a grey area.

The other defendent in the original trial, who had sex with her first was found not guilty.

He was found not guilty, because they had been speaking to each other in the take-away and she went with him in a taxi to the hotel, where they had sex. So his defence was, that he could reasonably infer from the sequence of events, that she was consenting.

Ched was different, in that he simply appeared at the hotel mid-act.

I'm not saying if the original, or new verdict was right or wrong. I'm just saying the circumstances of the two men was different.

MrB

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

OK, I mis-understood.

Supposedly the law is expected to find out if you had 'reasonable' grounds to believe consent was there.

If someone is unconscious, you are clearly a rapist.

If they are tipsy / slightly d*unk, then fine.

What about all the middle ground? There's the problem.

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

"I'm coming a bit late to this, but from what I remember of the original case I would suspect Ched will be found not guilty.

Her name was released by the public, not Ched Evans, he served time in prison and was released for good behaviour not because of an appeal process.

What you have said is why he is in a grey area.

The other defendent in the original trial, who had sex with her first was found not guilty.

Ched was different, in that he simply appeared at the hotel mid-act.

I'm not saying if the original, or new verdict was right or wrong. I'm just saying the circumstances of the two men was different.

MrB"

Grey area = unable to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

therefore regardless of the circumstances the conviction must be unsafe.

This is in no way to condone what has gone on that evening, but nevertheless there a legal standard to be upheld

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK, I mis-understood.

Supposedly the law is expected to find out if you had 'reasonable' grounds to believe consent was there.

If someone is unconscious, you are clearly a rapist.

If they are tipsy / slightly d*unk, then fine.

What about all the middle ground? There's the problem."

Absolutely

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

Grey area = unable to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

therefore regardless of the circumstances the conviction must be unsafe.

This is in no way to condone what has gone on that evening, but nevertheless there a legal standard to be upheld"

Ok, but there was a trial and re-trial. I'm fairly sure there were people at the trial who understand the legal principle of 'beyond reasonable doubt' .

BTW for what it is worth, I struggle to see how he was convicted. BUT that is based on footage shown on his own website, so I conclude there must be more to it than we know. Or how did a jury after several weeks conclude differently to our 2 minute examination.

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By *piritsonfabCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

By the way the phrase "beyond reasonable doubt" isn't in use any more.

They simply say you need to be "sure" the accused is guilty.

Which, considering many people might say, "I'm sure I saw you in tesco the other day" when they weren't sure at all, doesn't seem a very high standard to me.

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Well after having done jury service I would question how some people make a judgement

Whilst I don't want to quote on a current case - the rape laws in U.K actually protect the victim e.g. Annonimity, ability to say that I was intoxicated so I wasn't able to give consent, naming of accused. The list goes on and I understand why the laws have been changed

However how many are being abused by women & men that are crying rape post event

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm coming a bit late to this, but from what I remember of the original case I would suspect Ched will be found not guilty.

Her name was released by the public, not Ched Evans, he served time in prison and was released for good behaviour not because of an appeal process.

What you have said is why he is in a grey area.

The other defendent in the original trial, who had sex with her first was found not guilty.

Ched was different, in that he simply appeared at the hotel mid-act.

I'm not saying if the original, or new verdict was right or wrong. I'm just saying the circumstances of the two men was different.

MrB"

Unfortunately you are wrong and this is the problem with the trial because if she was d*unk at the time penetration occurred she could not have consented to sex. Therefore the 1st defendant should have been convicted but the fact that he was acquitted and Evans was convicted made a nonsense of the trial.

The only person who deserves sympathy is the poor woman at the centre where the idiot that called his friends over has escaped public censure.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

The only person who deserves sympathy is the poor woman at the centre where the idiot that called his friends over has escaped public censure.

No, you believe the verdict was wrong.

All I'm saying that is the reason they found one defendant not guilty and the other guilty.

You might not agree with it, but that was the logic used in the trial.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"By the way the phrase "beyond reasonable doubt" isn't in use any more.

They simply say you need to be "sure" the accused is guilty.

Which, considering many people might say, "I'm sure I saw you in tesco the other day" when they weren't sure at all, doesn't seem a very high standard to me."

I think you are wrong about that. I'm sure that Beyond reasonable douby is still very much in use as the basis for a jury to come to a verdict

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By *umslut jannineTV/TS
over a year ago

nottingham

Guilty or not guilty it's fair to say he is a cunt and his long term girlfriend must be off her rocker

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"Guilty or not guilty it's fair to say he is a cunt and his long term girlfriend must be off her rocker "

Well, there is due to be another trial, to establish why two defendants earning £30k per week would use a Travelodge.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only person who deserves sympathy is the poor woman at the centre where the idiot that called his friends over has escaped public censure.

No, you believe the verdict was wrong.

All I'm saying that is the reason they found one defendant not guilty and the other guilty.

You might not agree with it, but that was the logic used in the trial."

I accept the verdict of the trial but because it was obviously contradictory it was open to challenge. The failure to convict the first defendant and to convict the second

I am told by people who know these things flies in the face of legal logic as it currently stands. The logic of the jury was pretty simple, 1st defendant, man meets woman on a d*unken night out, woman star struck probably went for it, stuff the lawyers acquit him he seems a nice lad. Ched Evans you are a deeply unpleasant opportunistic fuckwit you deserve to go down you chancing bastard.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

The woman is being cross examined by Ched Evans QC now. She is struggling.

She says she was in a "blackout" but admits that during the blackout time she competantly:

Ordered and paid for a pizza

Listened to and undertook instructions from taxi driver to get out of the back seat and sit in the front seat if she was going to eat pizza - she did

Composed a perfectly literate sms message to her friend

But was incapable of remembering any conversation with Clayton or Evans

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

"The woman is being cross examined by Ched Evans QC now. She is struggling.

She says she was in a "blackout" but admits that during the blackout time she competantly:

Ordered and paid for a pizza

Listened to and undertook instructions from taxi driver to get out of the back seat and sit in the front seat if she was going to eat pizza - she did

Composed a perfectly literate sms message to her friend

But was incapable of remembering any conversation with Clayton or Evans"

I can't do half of those when stone cold sober

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I am told by people who know these things flies in the face of legal logic as it currently stands."

Not necessarily. The counter-argument runs that she consumed a large amount of alcohol in a short space of time, and that took time to take effect. The critical question is how d*unk was she when she agreed to have sex with the second man (assuming she did agree).

Personally I still find the best option is to wait until the jury decides, based on all the admissible evidence.

{shrugs}

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1. Evans prebooked the room but in his mates name.

2. The mate "found" the girl and text Evans.

3. The girl arrived at the hotel with his mate. Not with Evans.

4. The mate left shortly after Evans arrival.

5. Evans left the hotel via the fire escape not the reception to avoid being seen.

What is clear is that Evans & his mate pre planned finding a vulnerable girl to take advantage of. Knowing that their celebrity status in that area would make it easy.

Is that not predatory? How people can justify how he acted is beyond belief!

If it was your daughter how would you feel? The girls life has been ruined, she's made nothing from this. She's had to move away from her friends and family and change identity twice already.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The woman is being cross examined by Ched Evans QC now. She is struggling.

She says she was in a "blackout" but admits that during the blackout time she competantly:

Ordered and paid for a pizza

Listened to and undertook instructions from taxi driver to get out of the back seat and sit in the front seat if she was going to eat pizza - she did

Composed a perfectly literate sms message to her friend

But was incapable of remembering any conversation with Clayton or Evans"

Being in a black out doesn't mean you're unable to function, it means your brain is unable to generate the short-term memory pathways to store things. You can still appear sober, even if you're stinking d*unk and blacked out, it depends on how each person processes alcohol.

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"I am told by people who know these things flies in the face of legal logic as it currently stands.

Personally I still find the best option is to wait until the jury decides, based on all the admissible evidence.

{shrugs}

Mr ddc"

Why on earth would you suggest allowing people with legal training, to present all the evidence to an un-biased jury? We can do it here in a fraction of the time, with a fraction of the evidence and wikipedia to hand.

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By *tudmcmuffinMan
over a year ago

Swindon

Trial by fab jury

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am told by people who know these things flies in the face of legal logic as it currently stands.

Personally I still find the best option is to wait until the jury decides, based on all the admissible evidence.

{shrugs}

Mr ddc"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am told by people who know these things flies in the face of legal logic as it currently stands.

Personally I still find the best option is to wait until the jury decides, based on all the admissible evidence.

{shrugs}

Mr ddc"

Peoples alcohol levels fluctuate rapidly. I suffer with travel sickness & if I have had a drink it's ridiculous. I have to avoid using taxis on nights out because of it.

I can be absolutely fine in a pub or club. But if I then get in a taxi & travel for 5 mins or so it all changes very quickly.

I can end up completely passing out at times, having no memory of what I've done since the taxi. My mates the always comment the next day that I was perfectly fine when I left.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Mr ddc

It would certainly save the taxpayer some dosh if we simply had threads where we all voted and a judge totted up the total at the end.

Could we choose our forum though? I'd hate to have Mumsnet voting on "is a naked bum with a rucksack a Capital Offence"

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

"1. Evans prebooked the room but in his mates name.

2. The mate "found" the girl and text Evans.

3. The girl arrived at the hotel with his mate. Not with Evans.

4. The mate left shortly after Evans arrival.

5. Evans left the hotel via the fire escape not the reception to avoid being seen.

What is clear is that Evans & his mate pre planned finding a vulnerable girl to take advantage of. Knowing that their celebrity status in that area would make it easy.

Is that not predatory? How people can justify how he acted is beyond belief!

If it was your daughter how would you feel? The girls life has been ruined, she's made nothing from this. She's had to move away from her friends and family and change identity twice already."

Unsavoury indeed.

Perhaps more responsibility is needed on the part of young women to not only regulate the amount of alcohol they drink, but in giving them the confidence not to be obsessed by the culture of celebrity and successful sportsmen.

"How would you like it if it was your daughter?" - presumably Ched Evans has parents who believe their son has been wrongfully convicted.

I say again, the behaviour of all the parties in this has been far from flawless, but one has already been imprisoned and one claims not to have had any memory. The harm caused to her has been by public opinion and the legal process..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I once passed out d*unk on a 8 mile return walk to home.... Just after dawn about four I thought, fuck it I can't go on and collapsed in the park, I was awoke about 11 am by some elderly women harassing me because they wanted to play bowls and I was ruining there ability to throw a long leg

..... Alcohol is a terrible affliction....I wouldn't mind but I was only 500 yards from home, one of the old dears was my ma,s neighbour

...

Kinda ruined her crown green bowling circle that did....

. There isn't even a moral to the story

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By *unandbuckCouple
over a year ago

Sheffield

"I once passed out d*unk on a 8 mile return walk to home.... Just after dawn about four I thought, fuck it I can't go on and collapsed in the park, I was awoke about 11 am by some elderly women harassing me because they wanted to play bowls and I was ruining there ability to throw a long leg

..... Alcohol is a terrible affliction....I wouldn't mind but I was only 500 yards from home, one of the old dears was my ma,s neighbour

...

Kinda ruined her crown green bowling circle that did....

. There isn't even a moral to the story"

Do you recall what the two old dears did to you while you still semi-conscious?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..... Alcohol is a terrible affliction....I wouldn't mind but I was only 500 yards from home, one of the old dears was my ma,s neighbour

...

Kinda ruined her crown green bowling circle that did....

. There isn't even a moral to the story

Do you recall what the two old dears did to you while you still semi-conscious?

More to the point... Did you consent to what they did to you? Even if you can't remember doing it or what they did to you?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"1. Evans prebooked the room but in his mates name.

2. The mate "found" the girl and text Evans.

3. The girl arrived at the hotel with his mate. Not with Evans.

4. The mate left shortly after Evans arrival.

5. Evans left the hotel via the fire escape not the reception to avoid being seen.

What is clear is that Evans & his mate pre planned finding a vulnerable girl to take advantage of. Knowing that their celebrity status in that area would make it easy.

Is that not predatory? How people can justify how he acted is beyond belief!

If it was your daughter how would you feel? The girls life has been ruined, she's made nothing from this. She's had to move away from her friends and family and change identity twice already.

Unsavoury indeed.

"How would you like it if it was your daughter?" - presumably Ched Evans has parents who believe their son has been wrongfully convicted.

You are right. It's the young woman's fault.

Women should be kept in.

Only men can get d*unk.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Guilty or not guilty it's fair to say he is a cunt and his long term girlfriend must be off her rocker

Well, there is due to be another trial, to establish why two defendants earning £30k per week would use a Travelodge."

Well it's definitely a crime!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Read the judicial review documents before and can understand why he was previously convicted. But suspect he will be acquitted this time but onlu the jury can decide based on all the evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..... Alcohol is a terrible affliction....I wouldn't mind but I was only 500 yards from home, one of the old dears was my ma,s neighbour

...

Kinda ruined her crown green bowling circle that did....

. There isn't even a moral to the story

Do you recall what the two old dears did to you while you still semi-conscious?

"
... I've no idea but I didn't take any chances, I took the morning after pill... That didn't sober me up either, anyhow...

Two of them are dead now..... At least they were when I buried them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But suspect he will be acquitted this time but onlu the jury can decide based on all the evidence. "

The ONLY way in the world he can be acquitted is if he has PROOF that he had consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But suspect he will be acquitted this time but onlu the jury can decide based on all the evidence.

The ONLY way in the world he can be acquitted is if he has PROOF that he had consent."

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt. Most rape cases fail because it is one word against another and difficult for a prosecution to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt. "

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of."

The original conviction was quashed and an immediate retrial ordered by the court of appeal not because Evans requested anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of."

Sorry really confused by what you've posted..are you saying if you are convicted of a crime you can get a re-trial just because you've asked for it? If that's the case then the courts would be full to the rafters with retrials!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you're confused, read up on the case.

He requested a retrial because he CLAIMED he had new evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you're confused, read up on the case.

He requested a retrial because he CLAIMED he had new evidence."

The case was reviewed by the criminal cases review commission and the original conviction quashed by the court of appeal with a retrial ordered. The burden remains with the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt to a new jury that a crime was committed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/10/16 20:21:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The case was reviewed by the criminal cases review commission and the original conviction quashed by the court of appeal with a retrial ordered. "

What you're not getting is that Ched and/or his legal team STILL had to bring it to the commission for a review.

The commission wouldn't have reviewed it unless his legal team had said "hey look, we have new evidence which makes Ched's conviction unstable".

It is now down to Ched and his team to PROVE that his conviction is unstable to a court of law hence the retrial.

If you're seriously confused about that then you don't understand the fucking process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The case was reviewed by the criminal cases review commission and the original conviction quashed by the court of appeal with a retrial ordered.

What you're not getting is that Ched and/or his legal team STILL had to bring it to the commission for a review.

The commission wouldn't have reviewed it unless his legal team had said "hey look, we have new evidence which makes Ched's conviction unstable".

It is now down to Ched and his team to PROVE that his conviction is unstable to a court of law hence the retrial.

If you're seriously confused about that then you don't understand the fucking process."

It has already been proved that the original conviction was unstable hence it was quashed and a retrial ordered. It is now the job of the prosecution to prove his guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. This is a new trial with a new jury and judge and treated as all trials in this country. The defendant does not have to prove anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't agree but you win on the basis that you give more of a fcuk than I do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't agree but you win on the basis that you give more of a fcuk than I do. "

I think he is odious and hope he is found guilty, but up to the prosecution and jury now.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

If he is found guilty on retrial, I hope that the judge sentences him accordingly to allow for the additional grief suffered by his alleged victim.

On the other hand, if he is acquitted, then let it be an end to what has been a bit of a media circus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If he is found guilty on retrial, I hope that the judge sentences him accordingly to allow for the additional grief suffered by his alleged victim.

^ this.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of."

Rubbish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of.

Rubbish"

Ok that's cool.

**hands up and backs off**

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By *otblondewife hornyMrCouple
over a year ago

Cambuslang

The law is an ass. If a man and a woman are both d*unk then have sex the man can get done. Equality?

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of.

Rubbish

Ok that's cool.

**hands up and backs off**

You can't just request a retrial

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

It is not the defendants job to do that. It is the prosecution that has to proves that he didnt.

No it isn't in this case.

Ched REQUESTED the retrial.

It wasn't brought to retrial because of any other reason than Ched Evans himself REQUESTING it.

He absolutely does need to prove it if he's claiming innocence on something he has ALREADY been convicted of.

Rubbish

Ok that's cool.

**hands up and backs off**

I should think so too. His conviction was unsafe and this retrial was nothing to do with anything that he requested, but it is happening because the original trial was badly flawed.

From a personal point of view I think he will be cleared and big questions will hang over North Wales Police and the CPS for not just the original prosecution but having the audacity to continue on this second trial after the CCRC overturned the original conviction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can't just request a retrial

READ my other comments.

/out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you're confused, read up on the case.

He requested a retrial because he CLAIMED he had new evidence."

Right so he didn't get a retrial because he asked for it. He got a retrial because an appeals board examined new evidence on his case then?

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

READ my other comments.

/out.

I did. Random capitalisation does not equal validity, or accuracy.

Irrespective of who triggered the review, the current process is a trial, where the burden of proof lies with the prosecution as per the previous trial.

#pointlessattemptatawrittenmicdrop

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Irrespective of who triggered the review, the current process is a trial, where the burden of proof lies with the prosecution as per the previous trial.

Even in light of the defence claiming new evidence?...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't agree but you win on the basis that you give more of a fcuk than I do.

I think he is odious and hope he is found guilty, but up to the prosecution and jury now."

Why do you "hope he's found guilty". If he is guilty then I'm sure he will be found guilty. But I expect the trial will return the same result that the other guys trial returned. You know the other guy that had sex with her on the same night and was found not guilty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The firat trial was a bit dodgy to say the least 2 men walk into a hotel with and bang a d*unk chick 1 is innocent and 1 guilty i could never work that one out

(I appologise to anyone who thinks im not sensitive to rape victims i am im just not 100% sure this was a case of rape seen as the lass was reportedly know for crying rape on welsh sportsmen)

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

Irrespective of who triggered the review, the current process is a trial, where the burden of proof lies with the prosecution as per the previous trial.

Even in light of the defence claiming new evidence?..."

Yes. That's (presumably) part of why the review ordered a fresh trial.

At which both sides may present as much or as little evidence as the judge will allow, irrespective of whether it was presented at any previous trial, appeal, or review.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The firat trial was a bit dodgy to say the least 2 men walk into a hotel with and bang a d*unk chick 1 is innocent and 1 guilty i could never work that one out

(I appologise to anyone who thinks im not sensitive to rape victims i am im just not 100% sure this was a case of rape seen as the lass was reportedly know for crying rape on welsh sportsmen)"

There are rumors that Evans team will present evidence she tried to extort money from him via Facebook messages, evidence which wasn't allowed in the original trial. Strictly rumor, we will see when the trial happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So obvious she is a money grabber,let the poor man go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So obvious she is a money grabber,let the poor man go."

Actually I think the police are going to come out of this worse. She only 'realised' she'd been raped after they convinced her of it. I don't think she set out to entrap him based on what's been published in the news.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

Not a good day for Evans today. Hotel Receptionist giving evidence and said the complainant appeared very d*unk, her eyes were glazed over and she did not respond to him when he asked her if she was OK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is his retrial. He has already been found guilty, then failed on 2 separate occasions with his appeal. That's why it's all very dodgy.

He's guilty! "

he so far from guilt it's in another planet . She was just after a good old payout

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By *rank n BettyCouple
over a year ago

Not meeting

"The firat trial was a bit dodgy to say the least 2 men walk into a hotel with and bang a d*unk chick 1 is innocent and 1 guilty i could never work that one out

(I appologise to anyone who thinks im not sensitive to rape victims i am im just not 100% sure this was a case of rape seen as the lass was reportedly know for crying rape on welsh sportsmen)"

She walked in with 1 man who then text Evans saying he had a girl in a room. He joined them & left via a fire exit.

No matter what the verdict, this girl was forced out of her home town - away from the family & friends she needed support from. Let's not forget that

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Will there be a stoning?

surely everyone loves a good stoning..

frees one spirit a good stoning..

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By *nquisitivecoupleCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"So if hes found guilty he will continue his sentence if innocent he will be free to try and pick up the pieces of his life.

No, Mr C got that bit wrong. Evans was released halfway through his sentence because that is what happens to most criminals. His case was reviewed and quashed much later.

So technically, if convicted and sentenced to no more than the original 5 years, he will still be free.

The case is more about trying to clear his name, some say due to a civil claim for substantial financial damages.

Mr ddcalways nice to get the proper facts. So he did what every one else does serve the time and this is to clear his name if he is innocent.

This is why i prefer facts to hysteria"

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By *nquisitivecoupleCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

[Removed by poster at 06/10/16 14:00:02]

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