FabSwingers.com forum: Confused about the EU?

By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

Have a look at BREXIT the movie. It's on YouTube. Explains things quite well. We will only get one chance of a vote on whether to leave or stay in the EU. Don't waste it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My main concern about holding a referendum is the people who are allowed a vote....

Giving members of the general public a free choice to make their own decision is recipe fraught with danger

I mean...... I have you seen the way some people dress the public,,,,

Really......

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself "

Huh? It was your only reply, first and only comment at the time, not the last word.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself "

Of course I'm proud of myself....

I mean c'mon seriously...... who wouldn't be overjoyed to provoke such a reaction ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My main concern about holding a referendum is the people who are allowed a vote....

Giving members of the general public a free choice to make their own decision is recipe fraught with danger

I mean...... I have you seen the way some people dress the public,,,,

Really......

Hey... Nice to see you, to see you nice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My main concern about holding a referendum is the people who are allowed a vote....

Giving members of the general public a free choice to make their own decision is recipe fraught with danger

I mean...... I have you seen the way some people dress the public,,,,

Really......

Hey... Nice to see you, to see you nice

Nice......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself

Huh? It was your only reply, first and only comment at the time, not the last word. "
i agree.. Last word.. No one is allowed to post now after ME!

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself "

Is it obligatory to have a humour-ectomy to be on the paramilitary wing of Team Brexit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself

Huh? It was your only reply, first and only comment at the time, not the last word. i agree.. Last word.. No one is allowed to post now after ME!

Bazinga.....

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By *ed wineMan
over a year ago

Where the streets have no name

It's a strange situation. An example, Eurovision Song Contest: All coments and most of the songs in the lenguage of the only country that doesn't want to be involved in EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol"

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol"
.

I think that many a time on nearly every forum thread posted!!.

I often think I'd make a great dictator, however I know the reality is, I'd soon be rounding you all up with rouse rouse.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

One question, who funded this "Brexit" film?

I haven't seen it, is it for or against leaving?

Does it claim to be "unbiased" .... a bit like the BBC (soz, should have said the "propaganda machine of the "stay" group)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't believe you have just said that

Trying to have a last word on a thread? You must be so proud of yourself

Huh? It was your only reply, first and only comment at the time, not the last word. i agree.. Last word.. No one is allowed to post now after ME!

Bazinga.....

Lol..

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU "

I'm voting to stay in.

The very basic definition of democracy is choosing to vote the way we want. Not voting the way you want. That's called something else.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

No idea who funded it but it explains a lot about us before we joined the common market. During the common market and how it turned into the EU. As I say have a look at it and it will be an eye opener

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU "

Ahh more classic brexit ....I do believe in democracy. How much democracy do you think we really have in the uk. When we vote we elect others to take decisions for us. MP's often take the party line and vote for things that most people dont want. How many of us actually wanted to invade Iraq.....or Suez.....or wanted the poll tax....or the railwyas to be privatised. Europe isnt really any different.

People moan about some parts of it not being elected but we dont elect the boards of nhs trusts....we dont elect generals.....the forestry commission.....civil servants dont stand for election but have huge powers. There are lots of powerful organisations in the uk that we do not elect.

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

"No idea who funded it but it explains a lot about us before we joined the common market. During the common market and how it turned into the EU. As I say have a look at it and it will be an eye opener "

Can't be bothered

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

Of course we have democracy in the uk. But the eu is run by unelected beurocrats who have no constituents to answer to. In the European Parliament the MEP's can't propose legislation or vote on it. So what is the point of it? And do you know how many presidents of the EU there are?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course we have democracy in the uk. But the eu is run by unelected beurocrats who have no constituents to answer to. In the European Parliament the MEP's can't propose legislation or vote on it. So what is the point of it? And do you know how many presidents of the EU there are? "

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

i can't be arsed with propaganda from either side to be honest

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

You vote the way you want to and I'll vote the way I want to. That's democracy.

I've already made my decision but, and here's the thing, I'm not going around trying to force others to change their minds, and calling them names if they don't.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?"

I'm a civil servant, so technically I'm an unelected bureaucrat. Sorry.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

You vote the way you want to and I'll vote the way I want to. That's democracy.

I've already made my decision but, and here's the thing, I'm not going around trying to force others to change their minds, and calling them names if they don't. "

And who is doing that?

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

You vote the way you want to and I'll vote the way I want to. That's democracy.

I've already made my decision but, and here's the thing, I'm not going around trying to force others to change their minds, and calling them names if they don't.

And who is doing that? "

You in the third reply of this thread

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

No I didn't try reading it again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

I'm a civil servant, so technically I'm an unelected bureaucrat. Sorry.

Why the hell are you fucking up our country, you should be ashamed of yourself. Also stop running the EU, you're not meant to do that.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

After the recent revelations about how Angela Merkel was pulling the strings to Camerons negotiations about getting a better deal for the UK in the EU, its clear that, no matter what they say, we as a country, if we stay, will not be getting a fair shake of the stick in any "negotiations"... and we will have screwed the pooch by showing the EU that we are willing to roll over when the going gets tough.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?"

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't "

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Eloquently put

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours. "

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament "

But your not knowing is only your fault, I don't see how you can blame anyone but yourself? It's not secret.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament

But your not knowing is only your fault, I don't see how you can blame anyone but yourself? It's not secret. "

Anyway, one is a country. How you don't know the name of a country is beyond me.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament

But your not knowing is only your fault, I don't see how you can blame anyone but yourself? It's not secret. "

What point are you trying to get across?

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't "

All this "unelected Eurocrats run the EU" guffis smoke and mirrors.

It's the same everywhere. Beurocrats and civil we ants do the actual work. They are not elected, it is simply their job regardless of the govt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

...Well said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament

But your not knowing is only your fault, I don't see how you can blame anyone but yourself? It's not secret.

What point are you trying to get across? "

That you said "they're unelected bureaucrats" and then you said they are because you can't name them. When in actuality, they're not and the reason you can't name them is because you lack knowledge and not because of some suggested illegal activity. It's all very discoverable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

im voting out. stay in the nhs becomes privately owned. the sterling changes to the euro. we take in more migrants and house and support them meaning more tax money wasted. focus on what on our doorstep leave the eu knock the stupid guidelines set by wealthy appointed buisness men at brussel on the head and continue as we were. we dont need the eu to trade. america do fine china do fine not eu countries. we put a lot of money into buisnesses across the world with our trade. just remember the eu was set up before the likes of computers and internet it was good in its day but now is out of date. its like using chalk and slate when theres a perfectly good and better pen and paper

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't "

Civil servants....businesses and quango's run our country. Should we get of the Uk?

I dont think not recignising someones photographs is a good reason to leave anything except a memory exam

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"One question, who funded this "Brexit" film?

I haven't seen it, is it for or against leaving?

Does it claim to be "unbiased" .... a bit like the BBC (soz, should have said the "propaganda machine of the "stay" group)

Just for correctness sake, the BBC has recently been criticised by arespected independent media watchdog for significant and consistent anti-EU bias.

So whenever they are, they are definitely not the propaganda machine of the 'stay' group.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"im voting out. stay in the nhs becomes privately owned. the sterling changes to the euro. we take in more migrants and house and support them meaning more tax money wasted. focus on what on our doorstep leave the eu knock the stupid guidelines set by wealthy appointed buisness men at brussel on the head and continue as we were. we dont need the eu to trade. america do fine china do fine not eu countries. we put a lot of money into buisnesses across the world with our trade. just remember the eu was set up before the likes of computers and internet it was good in its day but now is out of date. its like using chalk and slate when theres a perfectly good and better pen and paper"

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't

Can you name every countries president or even every MP in the UK? That's a faulty logic to apply. Your lack of knowledge isn't their problem, it's yours.

No I couldn't but I know who my local MP is and who occupies the important seats in parliament

But your not knowing is only your fault, I don't see how you can blame anyone but yourself? It's not secret.

What point are you trying to get across?

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Are you a Daily Mail journalist, by any chance?

Just asking...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have a look at BREXIT the movie. It's on YouTube. Explains things quite well. We will only get one chance of a vote on whether to leave or stay in the EU. Don't waste it "
...this film is worth watching and maybe the in camp should have a look.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think this is the first EU thread I've bothered to read all of that actually makes sense and defines better why we should stay and why we should go. And I will vote to get out of the EU which will be the first time I have voted in years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well im in the in camp andnot budging either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think this is the first EU thread I've bothered to read all of that actually makes sense and defines better why we should stay and why we should go. And I will vote to get out of the EU which will be the first time I have voted in years"

You think this all makes sense?

Have you been drinking?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have a look at BREXIT the movie. It's on YouTube. Explains things quite well. We will only get one chance of a vote on whether to leave or stay in the EU. Don't waste it ...this film is worth watching and maybe the in camp should have a look."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post."

ive looked at both sides its just the in campaign is all just what ifs in my eyes. they claim better security they claim homicide and killings if we leave. this is already happening!! all media is one sided to find the truth youve to dig deep. just think if the eu was all for helping one another why is greece in a position of financial help but npt uet getting any? the likes of turkey wantong to join the eu but dont have anything to bring to the table. The in campaign to me was all a scaremongering tactic. saying we wont have free movement with the eu. im sorry but just because im part of the eu doesnt mean i expect to travel country to country freely without the correct checks being in place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign?

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Eloquently put

Thank you.

Although I'm quite passionate about this, I do worry sometimes about coming across as some sort of right-wing fanatic.

Truth is, as much as people paint people with the same views as myself with the "xenophobe" or, even worse, the "racist" tag, we cant avoid the truth about certain things.

The NHS had its busiest year in the last 12 months, some parents are finding it impossible to get their kids into even their 2nd choice schools, due to numbers, some schools are employing more than a handful of translators to cope with languages, some prison wings are full with non-uk criminals, ... and the UK govt tried to hide the fact that it LIED about the number of immigrants coming into the UK, they said 250,000, its closer to 950,000, and these are just the ones we know about.

So, 1 million people are coming in a year, and yet budgets for the NHS etc are being cut!

I have, amongst others, Polish Lithuanian, Nigerian, Chinese, and French friends, and to listen to them talk, you would think it was a group of Nick Griffins friends having a meeting, so strong is their opposition to immigration into the UK.

This isn't the only issue that should be considered when deciding whether to vote in or out, but its an example of what happens when you bring the subject up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can see both sides of the arguement. However I am in the remain side. I know people make the "terrorists" coming over arguement, but in all honesty, leaving the EU won't stop them coming in. I just think Europe needs to step back with how much control they have over us. If a UK judge makes a decision, an EU judge cannot over rule and vice versa. Allow us more control over our boarders. And so on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Eloquently put

Thank you.

Although I'm quite passionate about this, I do worry sometimes about coming across as some sort of right-wing fanatic.

Truth is, as much as people paint people with the same views as myself with the "xenophobe" or, even worse, the "racist" tag, we cant avoid the truth about certain things.

So, 1 million people are coming in a year, and yet budgets for the NHS etc are being cut!

This isn't the only issue that should be considered when deciding whether to vote in or out, but its an example of what happens when you bring the subject up.

Hospitals have closed. So have schools. The building of new ones haven't kept up with the inflation of the population. I'm not sure immigration is at fault here.

Anyway, just cos someone is Polish, Lithuanian, Nigerian, Chinese or French, it doesn't make their views less wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Eloquently put

Thank you.

Although I'm quite passionate about this, I do worry sometimes about coming across as some sort of right-wing fanatic.

Truth is, as much as people paint people with the same views as myself with the "xenophobe" or, even worse, the "racist" tag, we cant avoid the truth about certain things.

So, 1 million people are coming in a year, and yet budgets for the NHS etc are being cut!

This isn't the only issue that should be considered when deciding whether to vote in or out, but its an example of what happens when you bring the subject up.

Hospitals have closed. So have schools. The building of new ones haven't kept up with the inflation of the population. I'm not sure immigration is at fault here.

Anyway, just cos someone is Polish, Lithuanian, Nigerian, Chinese or French, it doesn't make their views less wrong. "

Exactly. Most families in my area seem to have no problem supplying to the over population. We cannot blame immagrants when we can't even blame our own people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign? "

we keep the nhs

we keep the sterling

we keep trade

no more daily contributions to a system that tells us how and where to put our money

lower tax

safer towns

wont get tied into wars that are none of our buisness.

people forget although we leave the eu we are still part of nato tieing us to the strongest military countrys in europe and across the world. if you have to ask yourself why we need to leave. your allowing your self to exist and not live

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

My big bugbear is the whole "Omg, what will happen after?" question.

Truth is, very few can be sure of anything after... save one thing.

This WILL lead to closer economic and political integration, taking over OUR pensions, armed forces, courts etc., they have made no secret of their plans for this.

So, although I'm no expert, the choice, as it seems to me anyway, is simple...

Vote stay, and get more of the same red tape, immigration, laws, integration and meddling from the EU, and risk even more of it with little chance to stop it.

Vote leave, and get a chance to move away from the above, take back control, define our borders, make our own decisions about trade, laws, education, politics, and our standing within Europe.

One choice, one chance, more of the same, and worse.... or something different, perhaps a little unknown, but free of meddling eurocrats.

I'm out.

Are you a Daily Mail journalist, by any chance?

Just asking..."

No.

Whilst I am not a big fan of some types of journalism, I still take your question as a compliment, despite it not being meant as one.

I like to think that I am on ordinary, working class guy, with a family, who served his country in the past, and now has a tidy job, who is passionate about getting the best for the UK, and sees that as being outside of the EU in this instance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign?

we keep the nhs

we keep the sterling

we keep trade

no more daily contributions to a system that tells us how and where to put our money

lower tax

safer towns

wont get tied into wars that are none of our buisness.

I can't see one certainty in that list. Not one of those is guaranteed. Possibly the daily contributions to the EU, but your money will just go elsewhere.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Also in the In camp, having read around the subject and looked at as many of the facts I can find covering both views.

The only issue i have is that we need to grasp hold of The EU when we vote to stay. Having a Junior Minister covering this role is ludicrous, it should be one of the major jobs in the Cabinet and should be a crucial role in re-defining our relationship with the EU. I don't want just more of the same, I want us to be an active, enthusiastic, leader of EU direction and policy.

Just sitting on the edges and moaning will not be enough, grabbing the opportunity and driving improvements is the way I want us to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign?

we keep the nhs

we keep the sterling

we keep trade

no more daily contributions to a system that tells us how and where to put our money

lower tax

safer towns

wont get tied into wars that are none of our buisness.

I can't see one certainty in that list. Not one of those is guaranteed. Possibly the daily contributions to the EU, but your money will just go elsewhere. "

We can't say safer towns is a certainty. Most crime comes from British born citizens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the area im from has seen a rise in theft and attacks in past couple of years most being freshly housed migrants. im sorry but all those for staying in never experience the effect of the migrants as well the government wont house them near themselves they put the problem up north and forget about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As much as I love the idea of house prices plummeting when the demand falls after brexit, I'm voting to stay in. The protections afforded by the EU are simply too valuable and I don't want human rights determined by a government which already waged a campaign of brutality against the most vulnerable in society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the area im from has seen a rise in theft and attacks in past couple of years most being freshly housed migrants. im sorry but all those for staying in never experience the effect of the migrants as well the government wont house them near themselves they put the problem up north and forget about it"

Please provide the numbers from the ONS which support your area's crimes have been solely increased by migrants.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation, that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you! They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, p

igate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the unipolar world (New World Order) by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),

Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.

And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign?

we keep the nhs

The nhs is more at risk from the creeping privatisation of the tories than from the EU

we keep the sterling

We still have sterling and are in the EU

we keep trade

What trade do we keep. We will definately lose some trade if we leave.

no more daily contributions to a system that tells us how and where to put our money

Thats called goverment. We will still have that if we leave.

lower tax

How does leaving the EU lead to lower tax. Lower tax per se isnt necessarily a good thing. We actually need more investment in schools..roads..the nhs anyway.

safer towns

???????

wont get tied into wars that are none of our buisness.

It wasnt the EU that made us invade Iraq....or go to Sierra Leone. Which wars have the EU made us fight?

NATO is a military alliance. Its politics that leads to war. War is the conyinuation of politics by other means.....a famous chap called Clauswitz wrote that a couplemof centuries ago. We absolutely need strong political alliances to prevent war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!"

This sorta sounds like the rambling of a mad man. Houses haven't disappeared, neither have pensions, the NHS still exists and unemployment is down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!"

Is this a Bond or mission Impossible script?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

This sorta sounds like the rambling of a mad man. Houses haven't disappeared, neither have pensions, the NHS still exists and unemployment is down. "

That just sounds like a conspiricy theory mate. We will keep the NHS easily. As for people fearing for the sterling, they tried the euro on us and we kept the sterling. Scandinavia kept their Krona. The EU to me is a good thing. They've offered so much support to me that the UK Goverment has not. Due to the area I live, they've helped me through my degree, practically giving me a scholarship. The EU isn't some big scary force that people want to believe it is.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU "

Even Jeremy Corbyn on the Remain side says the EU is fundamentally undemocratic and needs reform. The EU commission are not elected they are appointed. Its the EU commission that runs things not the MEP's. There is no democratic mechanism for the people of Europe to remove the commission either. As Tony Benn used to say "if you can't remove the people that govern you then you are not living in a real democracy".

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

Yes the MEP's are elected but the people that are actually running the EU are unelected. If you were shown pictures of the 4 presidents of the EU would anyone be able to name them? I can't "

The people that run the EU are the Council of Ministers; ministers from each country.

Elected ministers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no its from the moith of an ex soldier that has spent many years looking into the eu after leaving the army. there is allways going to be uncertainty if we stay or we leave. times have moved on there is no need for the eu england is strong enough to control its self. we know where to put out money so why keep paying the eu to tell us . lets save 20million a day and put that into the system rather that making a rich man richer. did it ever cross ypur mind that cameron gave hos party an extra 9 million for those crappy leaflets. his opposing party didnt get that extra boost whys that? because he knows hes on a downhill slope trying to scare people into not being able to think for themsleves. we can make it work when we leave by having belief in our selves rather than being to scared to take the challenge with both hands

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!"

The EU TTIP deal will allow large American companies and corporations to buy up large chunks of the NHS. TTIP will lead to the privatisation of the NHS so I'm voting out. When we vote out we can use a large chunk of the money we pay in EU membership fees and divert that money directly into the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no its from the moith of an ex soldier that has spent many years looking into the eu after leaving the army. there is allways going to be uncertainty if we stay or we leave. times have moved on there is no need for the eu england is strong enough to control its self. we know where to put out money so why keep paying the eu to tell us . lets save 20million a day and put that into the system rather that making a rich man richer. did it ever cross ypur mind that cameron gave hos party an extra 9 million for those crappy leaflets. his opposing party didnt get that extra boost whys that? because he knows hes on a downhill slope trying to scare people into not being able to think for themsleves. we can make it work when we leave by having belief in our selves rather than being to scared to take the challenge with both hands "

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"One question, who funded this "Brexit" film?

I haven't seen it, is it for or against leaving?

Does it claim to be "unbiased" .... a bit like the BBC (soz, should have said the "propaganda machine of the "stay" group)

Just for correctness sake, the BBC has recently been criticised by arespected independent media watchdog for significant and consistent anti-EU bias.

So whenever they are, they are definitely not the propaganda machine of the 'stay' group."

Are you sure about that? A Conservative MP did a study on the BBC coverage of the EU referendum. The study found a disproportionate amount of air time coverage was being given to the Remain side on the BBC.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out. "

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out. "

So you think the elected government should use taxpayers money to campaign for the Conservative party before the next general election then? The principle is the same. Using your line of reasoning the Conservative party should use £9 million of taxpayers money to send out a Conservative leaflet to every house in the land before the next general election.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

the only people i see happy to stay in are mainly from the south where their nhs is still going strong and where migrants are not being housed. take a trip up north see how much the nhs is struggling and you will see all this is a result of the eu. ask the juniour doctors why they strike? "

You're talking absolute rubbish now, we have migrants down south. Don't be silly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I heard one of the most highly respected fund managers in the UK respond to the in or out question. He said he had conducted research to see what the effects of either scenario would be admittedly from an economic perspective.

Their findings were that in eiher outcome the effects would be marginal.

Sounds like a lot of fuss about nothing to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

I am pretty sure they can't do that without British acceptance. They just cant walk in and take it. The EU cannot sell it as it is a BRITISH owned organisation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

I think the elected government should campaign on behalf of the elected government. I don't think the EU referendum should be a party issue here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

when both campaigns are given a set amoubt of money to play with its a bit off the scale and unfair for the one in power to convieniently get another 9million

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"when both campaigns are given a set amoubt of money to play with its a bit off the scale and unfair for the one in power to convieniently get another 9million"

Are you sure you'd be saying the same if the government sent "out" leaflets? I'm not sure you would.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

I used to live on the south;

I can assure you that "the south's" NHS is as fucked, if not more than, the " north's"

" The south " has just the same immigrant issues as " the north"

" The north" has had massively more EU funding than "the south".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

How much democracy do you think we have in the uk. We elect politicians who then mostly ignore us and the election pledges they made. The country is really run by civil servants who are unelected but no one is up in arms about that happening in the uk...just in europe??????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't give any kind of shit what we do.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

I am pretty sure they can't do that without British acceptance. They just cant walk in and take it. The EU cannot sell it as it is a BRITISH owned organisation. "

Sorry but that is exactly what TTIP will allow them to do. Go and look into it. It's no good taking anyone's word on here. I'm telling you to do the research for yourself and you will find it is the case. British law is subservient to EU law now, we are not an independent sovereign country anymore. We have to abide by EU rules as long as we are members. That is why we need to leave to take back control of our country, our laws, our borders, our money and our sovereignty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

"when both campaigns are given a set amoubt of money to play with its a bit off the scale and unfair for the one in power to convieniently get another 9million

Are you sure you'd be saying the same if the government sent "out" leaflets? I'm not sure you would. "

We are on about fairness here and for the government to spend our money that way wasn't fair. This money should have been deducted from the in campaigns budget. And before you say it I would say the same if they had spent 9 million advocating an out vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i cat believe how many of you are unable to think for yourselves. of you think we need the eu you are a dilusional bunch. like farage said you dont see new zealand trying to be a part of australia and you dont see japan trying to be apart of china. the times of needing to be in the eu are long gone.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?"

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Saying someone is delusional just because they don't agree with you is pretty ignorant. People have dofferent opinions. Some of us have experienced the EU better than others. We base out opinions on that.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

I think the elected government should campaign on behalf of the elected government. I don't think the EU referendum should be a party issue here. "

Correct; the government is entitled to promote its policy......

And there is no moral or legal reason why they should help promote a viewpoint that is contrary to the government line.

They have been much more fair than they need to be, by enabling the Brexit platform.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

I think the elected government should campaign on behalf of the elected government. I don't think the EU referendum should be a party issue here. "

The elected conservative government is split right down the middle on the EU. Half of the Tory Mp's want out of the EU, while the other half want in. There was a debate in Westminster last Monday 9th May about those £9 million pro EU propaganda leaflets. Dozens of MP'S turned up to make objection to it, only 1 MP turned up to try to defend it. Speaks volumes really, because sending those leaflets out funded by the taxpayer is indefensible.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

No not stalking you its a free speaking forum so I can post where I like within the forum rules. You say stay and reform the EU. It's just not possible, the EU is deeply set against reform, David Cameron's pathetic renegotiation deal just proved it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Saying someone is delusional just because they don't agree with you is pretty ignorant. People have dofferent opinions. Some of us have experienced the EU better than others. We base out opinions on that. "

its more the fact you are unable to think for yoursleves. the government got into your head and have you controlled. its a poor do when the public fails to see whats happening in front of them. the eu give to many right and regulations. the eu stopped ua from making the lethal injection for the americans because the chemical was used to kill. yet the germans can happily trade guns to turkey which into arms the IS. now tell me its not a corrupt system

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"this is a ex army friends view on the eu maybe it can shed kight on all those who wish to stay in

So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)

The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.

The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.

No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

This sorta sounds like the rambling of a mad man. Houses haven't disappeared, neither have pensions, the NHS still exists and unemployment is down. "

Our thoughts also!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected."

Which members of the EC are unelected?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"when both campaigns are given a set amoubt of money to play with its a bit off the scale and unfair for the one in power to convieniently get another 9million

Are you sure you'd be saying the same if the government sent "out" leaflets? I'm not sure you would.

it's about having this referendum on a level playing field. David Cameron goes on about British values, he has completely trashed the British value of a sense of fair play by sending out those £9 million EU propaganda leaflets.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see how not thinking like a mad man is "not thinking for myself".

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same. "

Have you read many of these EU threads in the past on here? There are some very aggressive posters on the Remain side on other threads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why his job as a soldier is relevant to him not being a mad man.

Also, the leaflets were in the elected government's interest. That's why the elected government sent them out.

I think the elected government should campaign on behalf of the elected government. I don't think the EU referendum should be a party issue here.

I just don't agree with you. It's in the interest of the country to remain in, but those who believe out is best will always take umbrage and blame it on party politics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every system is corrupt. We cannot complain at one govermental system without looking at others. And no, the goverment have not gotten into my head. I am not Labour, I am not Conservative. I am not UKIP, I am not BNP or Britain First. I research what the EU offers to people and what it stops. I have not listened to what the politicians offer. I reaearched. I am not "brainwashed". I am a logical thinker who gets all the facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same.

Have you read many of these EU threads in the past on here? There are some very aggressive posters on the Remain side on other threads. "

True, but not seen any as bad as the leave campaign. It's not surprising though, when you have no actual facts to back up your argument that's all you have left.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

cant be that logical to want to remain in though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same.

Have you read many of these EU threads in the past on here? There are some very aggressive posters on the Remain side on other threads.

True, but not seen any as bad as the leave campaign. It's not surprising though, when you have no actual facts to back up your argument that's all you have left. "

In all honesty, I try not to get ivolved in political threads. You can lose too many friends who are deeply engrained into their polotical beliefs, they won't accept that you believe something different. I choose what benefits me, and at the moment, that is to remain inside the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though"

Every point you said was a guarantee upon leaving the EU is questionable. You're basing your opinion on desire as opposed to applying logic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though"

It benefits me more than leaving. I get a lot of advantages being inside the EU and they give me more than the UK goverment does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same.

Have you read many of these EU threads in the past on here? There are some very aggressive posters on the Remain side on other threads.

True, but not seen any as bad as the leave campaign. It's not surprising though, when you have no actual facts to back up your argument that's all you have left.

This

I apply this logic every single local or general election. Those who vote just because they always have/their dad did etc are the dangerous ones.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive already been sucked into an EU thread today and have almost lost the will to live.

There are definately some people who should be denied a vote regardless of how they dress lol

So you don't believe in democracy then

If so then you should vote to stay in the EU

Are you stalking me lol

Even the most ardent EU supporter will agree that reform is required. So why not stay and reform it instead of leaving. The EU is responsible for lots of positive aspects to modern life.

Exactly! Stay but change the EU. However, I do find that the people who are for out tend to get more aggresive if you do not vote the same.

Have you read many of these EU threads in the past on here? There are some very aggressive posters on the Remain side on other threads. "

I havnt noticed any remainers being aggressive but have seen several nasty comments from leavers. I dont want to see that from anyone in here.

Im happy for people to have different views to me and even to be be persuaded to change my mind by coherent arguments. We dont need to be obnoxious to each other to win a debate.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

It benefits me more than leaving. I get a lot of advantages being inside the EU and they give me more than the UK goverment does"

As you have said the eu has basically given you a scholarship so they have been good to you at the moment. But how good are they going to be to you in the future?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

Every point you said was a guarantee upon leaving the EU is questionable. You're basing your opinion on desire as opposed to applying logic. "

put it this way its only chance you get too leave why not take it and see what happens if all fails we can allways rejoin the eu as they need us more than we need them.

the in campaign is for those who like to be comfy not take risks. there are no guarauntees wether in or out. but tjink if we were able to sit out ww1 bombing and rebuild our county when it was turned to rubble surely we can control our own finances and land

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

It benefits me more than leaving. I get a lot of advantages being inside the EU and they give me more than the UK goverment does

As you have said the eu has basically given you a scholarship so they have been good to you at the moment. But how good are they going to be to you in the future? "

That I cannot answer as we do not know what will happen in the future. But I am hopeful that they will help me more. My trade is one that would aquire me to travel rather far, maybe even in Europe, so for me, acting within the EU is still beneficial

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find. "

While I agree that it is a shocking policy, this is why I'm in in the In but Change side. The EU cannot act as it has, even if we leave, we should still work on changing the EU. They are acting undemocratic and that is not acceptable, especially as they rule over democratic countries. The EU needs to become 100% Democrated and not force too many policies onto us. I am all for the human rights and the food regulations. But I am against them telling us to revoke our court decisions, even if it goes against our laws. So change the EU and stay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

Every point you said was a guarantee upon leaving the EU is questionable. You're basing your opinion on desire as opposed to applying logic.

put it this way its only chance you get too leave why not take it and see what happens if all fails we can allways rejoin the eu as they need us more than we need them.

Because it's not as simple as just rejoining. It takes years to leave and the same to rejoin, all at extra cost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

if we remain we are unable to change the acts of the eu though end of the day the eu is backed by big corporate buisness men. us as a lone country standi g up against them will do nothing as other countrys are too scared to speak ip

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?"

i just googled out of interest, its brought up 28 unelected all on over 194k year, i always thought was just the 4 front seats unelected by public

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

One country standing up will encourage the others to stand up. Like a dominoe effect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

Every point you said was a guarantee upon leaving the EU is questionable. You're basing your opinion on desire as opposed to applying logic.

put it this way its only chance you get too leave why not take it and see what happens if all fails we can allways rejoin the eu as they need us more than we need them.

Because it's not as simple as just rejoining. It takes years to leave and the same to rejoin, all at extra cost. "

with tje debt where already in it wont make much difference to us. just think its something there to fall back on if leaving doesnt work out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

One country standing up will encourage the others to stand up. Like a dominoe effect"

it wont as now whilst we have speakers saying what they believe otjer countrys are still in the shadows believing tje same but not opening their mouths

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"cant be that logical to want to remain in though

Every point you said was a guarantee upon leaving the EU is questionable. You're basing your opinion on desire as opposed to applying logic.

put it this way its only chance you get too leave why not take it and see what happens if all fails we can allways rejoin the eu as they need us more than we need them.

Because it's not as simple as just rejoining. It takes years to leave and the same to rejoin, all at extra cost.

with tje debt where already in it wont make much difference to us. just think its something there to fall back on if leaving doesnt work out"

Yeh it would make a difference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The main thing is we cannot know for certain what will happen if we leave or stay. I am still in the remain despite the good arguements some people have said for leaving. Sadly, most arguements are "im right you're wrong" :/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not really did you know that turkey wanting to join the eu will mean we send money to turkey to enable then yo have money and a country at the standard to join yet we cant bail put greece a current member of the eu

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?"

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not really did you know that turkey wanting to join the eu will mean we send money to turkey to enable then yo have money and a country at the standard to join yet we cant bail put greece a current member of the eu"

Sorry, I'm struggling to discuss it with you. You don't answer things properly and when one point is made, you bring up something unrelated as if it could affect the prior point. It's going in circles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I know Turkey want to join. However, most of the things in their laws are non-EU, such as no free press. So the EU might not allow them to join due to this fact

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I said before, he's a "I'm right" person

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany."

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have just summed up pretty much every overly vocal leave campaigner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP. "

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The main thing is we cannot know for certain what will happen if we leave or stay. I am still in the remain despite the good arguements some people have said for leaving. Sadly, most arguements are "im right you're wrong" :/"

both campaigns are full of what ifs and maybes but i myself see the eu as an out of date system. there is a video link of a ww1 and ww2 veteram giving his views on the eu definetly worth a watch. in in campaign videos although they have facts its not enough. why would we allow out laws and ptjer systems to be decided by people from other countrys. why be happy with current trade agreements taking as long as 2months to be arranged. when in can be done in a matter of days due to the internet. heavy shipping and the internet has opened the door to our trade and puts us in the world market.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

i just googled out of interest, its brought up 28 unelected all on over 194k year, i always thought was just the 4 front seats unelected by public"

28 unelected bereaucrats, shocking!!

Still it could be worse, imagine if there was an unelected chamber with over 800 members

But no political union would ever allow that to happen, or would they

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us"

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

In but Change?

I wasn't aware there was a third option?

Truly, if you think that the EU will change, or allow us to re-negotiate any part of our membership, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land!

We tried that, and, as my previous post said, Cameron got squat, he was played by Merkel and others, which is why we are now at the point where we are voting "in" or "out"!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

i just googled out of interest, its brought up 28 unelected all on over 194k year, i always thought was just the 4 front seats unelected by public

28 unelected bereaucrats, shocking!!

Still it could be worse, imagine if there was an unelected chamber with over 800 members

But no political union would ever allow that to happen, or would they

It's not true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected. "

Exactly. Which, I do believe happens in this country with our goverment. We don't decide who leads the parties (unlike America). We don't decide who are the ministers. Thats all decided for us the party elected into power

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us"

Doesn't make sense. Of course not, an election for one member of every EU country would be ridiculous and at an incredible scale.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

In but Change?

I wasn't aware there was a third option?

Truly, if you think that the EU will change, or allow us to re-negotiate any part of our membership, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land!

We tried that, and, as my previous post said, Cameron got squat, he was played by Merkel and others, which is why we are now at the point where we are voting "in" or "out"!

There isn't a third option sadly. But if enough of the people speak out about how it needs to change, not just our leaders, that can hopefully lead to other countries speaking out and forcing a change. The voice of the people holds a lot of power

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

In but Change?

I wasn't aware there was a third option?

Truly, if you think that the EU will change, or allow us to re-negotiate any part of our membership, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land!

We tried that, and, as my previous post said, Cameron got squat, he was played by Merkel and others, which is why we are now at the point where we are voting "in" or "out"!

correct. That is why you should vote OUT

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP. "

OK I'll try to make it a bit easier.

Martin Schultz president of the parliament is elected by German voters as an MEP and the elected by the members as president.

The 28 members of the EU commission are all placemen put into their positions by the governments'of their countries (including Juncker the president and former PM of Luxembourg) One commissioner per member state. None stand for election by anyone.

Tusk ( former Polish PM) is president of the EU council of ministers and was put into his position by those ministers and never stood for election.

All three presidents are on circa 200k per year plus personal staff, perks, and lottery win expense accounts.

America elects one president. Europe gets three foisted on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

OK I'll try to make it a bit easier.

Martin Schultz president of the parliament is elected by German voters as an MEP and the elected by the members as president.

Tusk ( former Polish PM) is president of the EU council of ministers and was put into his position by those ministers and never stood for election.

All three presidents are on circa 200k per year plus personal staff, perks, and lottery win expense accounts.

America elects one president. Europe gets three foisted on it.

I'm pretty sure unelected doesn't mean what you think it does. No one is just put into a position.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

OK I'll try to make it a bit easier.

Martin Schultz president of the parliament is elected by German voters as an MEP and the elected by the members as president.

Tusk ( former Polish PM) is president of the EU council of ministers and was put into his position by those ministers and never stood for election.

All three presidents are on circa 200k per year plus personal staff, perks, and lottery win expense accounts.

America elects one president. Europe gets three foisted on it.

Congress. America has congress. The President decides what to try to bring in, but that can't be done without congress. Which just so happens to be filled with republicans. So even though a democrat is voted in, republicans can still hold sway over america

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

In but Change?

I wasn't aware there was a third option?

Truly, if you think that the EU will change, or allow us to re-negotiate any part of our membership, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land!

We tried that, and, as my previous post said, Cameron got squat, he was played by Merkel and others, which is why we are now at the point where we are voting "in" or "out"!

If you Google and read about the EU 5 presidents report it will tell you where the EU is heading. It wants full political and monetary union from all its members. It is set on a course for a federal European superstate, a united states of Europe. They will not deviate from that path. A united states of Europe is what you are voting to be part of if you vote remain. It can't be reformed.

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

we elect a party for 4 years, that party puts forward its plans and people its appointing in positions and we can re vote for change after there term, democracy in action, no leader of eu should be elected without the peoples vote of europe. its total opposite to how we do it in this country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

OK I'll try to make it a bit easier.

Martin Schultz president of the parliament is elected by German voters as an MEP and the elected by the members as president.

Tusk ( former Polish PM) is president of the EU council of ministers and was put into his position by those ministers and never stood for election.

All three presidents are on circa 200k per year plus personal staff, perks, and lottery win expense accounts.

America elects one president. Europe gets three foisted on it.

Can I ask as someone who doesn't live in the UK anymore, which side do you sit? If that's not too cheeky of course

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

True Democracy is if we got to vote on every single desiscion made. But we do not have that

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Do the research on TTIP, I think you will be shocked about what you Find.

In but Change?

I wasn't aware there was a third option?

Truly, if you think that the EU will change, or allow us to re-negotiate any part of our membership, you really are living in cloud cuckoo land!

We tried that, and, as my previous post said, Cameron got squat, he was played by Merkel and others, which is why we are now at the point where we are voting "in" or "out"!

Whichever way the British referendum goes the one certainty is that nothing will be the same again.

The tide of Euro scepticism is growing all over Europe. The Greeks, Austrians, Danes, Finns, a sizeable, and growing, number of French, and many others have really had a belly full of Brussels. Even the Germans are slowly coming around.

Brexit or not. The times they are a changin'

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

Why don't you listen to both sides of the debate instead of just thinking stay is the only option?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why don't you listen to both sides of the debate instead of just thinking stay is the only option? "

Oh I do. I have said before that I have looked on both sides. But you can say the same to the people who want to leave.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

Wasn't meant to you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a latest poll 50% of Italians want out of the EU.

People are starting to see sense and this is just the start. It just so happens that the UK is leading the way

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Wasn't meant to you "

Hit reply and quote to quote the person you are replying to on the thread.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"If you Google and read about the EU 5 presidents report it will tell you where the EU is heading. It wants full political and monetary union from all its members. It is set on a course for a federal European superstate, a united states of Europe. They will not deviate from that path. A united states of Europe is what you are voting to be part of if you vote remain. It can't be reformed. "

This is what I keep banging the drum about... vote STAY, and this is your future.

Vote LEAVE, and we can move away from this and probably watch the EU pull itself apart as other members see that the doom and gloom merchants were wrong to say the UK couldn't survive outside the EU.

It will take a number of years, but the UK will thrive outside the EU.

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

She did this in her comment. And it was so long. Tried to edit out the other comments but that doesn't work

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"In a latest poll 50% of Italians want out of the EU.

People are starting to see sense and this is just the start. It just so happens that the UK is leading the way"

The front national are gaining more support in France with each passing election. One of the biggest reasons for that is because Front national want an EU referendum on France's membership.

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

True Democracy is if we got to vote on every single desiscion made. But we do not have that"

lots of things we have no say in, but the main thing we do, is who is in charge, as it is there not much point voting for any party in uk if it is being ruled by eu.

i like the idea of a utd europe, even like idea of utd world, but the reality is the worlds not ready for it, and europe is becoming more and more divided so not much thought needed to say its not working either.its not total disaster but its not even close to a success, uncertain times in or out i thinking, but being out be less of strain as more eu members debt rises out of control with no export or trade only dying tourism as an income

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

""If you Google and read about the EU 5 presidents report it will tell you where the EU is heading. It wants full political and monetary union from all its members. It is set on a course for a federal European superstate, a united states of Europe. They will not deviate from that path. A united states of Europe is what you are voting to be part of if you vote remain. It can't be reformed. "

This is what I keep banging the drum about... vote STAY, and this is your future.

Vote LEAVE, and we can move away from this and probably watch the EU pull itself apart as other members see that the doom and gloom merchants were wrong to say the UK couldn't survive outside the EU.

It will take a number of years, but the UK will thrive outside the EU."

That is pretty much how I see it.

We hear a lot from the remainers predicting all sorts of doom and gloom as to what "could" happen should Britain vote to leave, and that everything will stay the same and it is the "safe" option to vote to stay in.

Well how safe is it really?

It is well known that "ever closer union" (which is code for United States of Europe) is the driving force behind the EU project. So where could that take us in the next few years?

Will Britain be forced to join the Euro? or sign Schengen? or commit forces to an EU army? I don't know. Do you?

Stay or go there are NO certainty's.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

This is what I keep banging the drum about... vote STAY, and this is your future.

Vote LEAVE, and we can move away from this and probably watch the EU pull itself apart as other members see that the doom and gloom merchants were wrong to say the UK couldn't survive outside the EU.

It will take a number of years, but the UK will thrive outside the EU."

Absolutely! That's exactly what the UK said in 1946, 1958, what many said in 1976.

And then we keep needing to come back with our tails between our legs, begging to be let back in on worse terms, having pissed of our closest allies.

It the British Disease. In my view (and you don't need to tell me it's not yours) it's this country's biggest failing. And always has been.

Still, at least you are consistent in wanting to repeat our failiures.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

This is what I keep banging the drum about... vote STAY, and this is your future.

Vote LEAVE, and we can move away from this and probably watch the EU pull itself apart as other members see that the doom and gloom merchants were wrong to say the UK couldn't survive outside the EU.

It will take a number of years, but the UK will thrive outside the EU.

That is pretty much how I see it.

Well how safe is it really?

It is well known that "ever closer union" (which is code for United States of Europe) is the driving force behind the EU project. So where could that take us in the next few years?

Will Britain be forced to join the Euro? or sign Schengen? or commit forces to an EU army? I don't know. Do you?

Stay or go there are NO certainty's."

Sorry. Did you miss the last six months then?

You do know. If you don't you just haven't bothered to get informed (maybe the subtleties weren't covered in tha Daily Mail or whatever it is you read).

The answer is no, we won't. Unless our democratically elected government decides that it wants to.

End of.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Why don't you listen to both sides of the debate instead of just thinking stay is the only option?

Oh I do. I have said before that I have looked on both sides. But you can say the same to the people who want to leave. "

How true!

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up"

The leavers seem to be more reailient in converting the stayers. While the stayers are more happy just stating that they wish to stay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why don't you listen to both sides of the debate instead of just thinking stay is the only option?

Oh I do. I have said before that I have looked on both sides. But you can say the same to the people who want to leave.

How true!

can I just ask you, disagreements put to one side, why you think it is that so many Europeans not just the ones from the UK want to leave the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why don't you listen to both sides of the debate instead of just thinking stay is the only option?

Oh I do. I have said before that I have looked on both sides. But you can say the same to the people who want to leave.

How true!

can I just ask you, disagreements put to one side, why you think it is that so many Europeans not just the ones from the UK want to leave the EU?"

I can't answer that. It's someone else's opinion.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

This is what I keep banging the drum about... vote STAY, and this is your future.

Vote LEAVE, and we can move away from this and probably watch the EU pull itself apart as other members see that the doom and gloom merchants were wrong to say the UK couldn't survive outside the EU.

It will take a number of years, but the UK will thrive outside the EU.

Absolutely! That's exactly what the UK said in 1946, 1958, what many said in 1976.

And then we keep needing to come back with our tails between our legs, begging to be let back in on worse terms, having pissed of our closest allies.

It the British Disease. In my view (and you don't need to tell me it's not yours) it's this country's biggest failing. And always has been.

Still, at least you are consistent in wanting to repeat our failiures."

Yes I remember the British disease very well.

Britain was making a pretty good recovery during the 50's. After the wartime privations and Atlee's (although well meaning) disastrous government we got to a point in the early 60's when we really had "never had it so good"

Then we went out on the bender to end all benders (aka the swinging sixties) then got the hangover from hell (aka the British disease)

Sadly the patient took too long to recover and politicians in the 70's reverted to quack medicine thinking it would cure the illness. For a short while there was a glimmer of hope but the disease was pronounced terminal in early 1979.

Then in May 1979 a new miracle cure was discovered. It took time to take effect and the quacks and their loyal disciples kicked and screamed against it, but slowly and surely it worked.

The quacks still hung around using a foreign land as their base and still tried their best to kill off the patient so they could pick the bones of the corpse.

Alas (for them) the patient was given an opportunity to go into a self cure program which they knew would be successful.

Well, they couldn't allow that, could they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your view of what the European Parliament can do is about 3 sets of European treaties (and between 7 and 25 years) out of date.

The codecision procedure was introduced by the Maastricht Treaty on European Union (1992), and extended and made more effective by the Amsterdam Treaty (1999). With the Lisbon Treaty that took effect on 1 December 2009, the renamed ordinary legislative procedure became the main legislative procedure of the EU´s decision-making system.

The ordinary legislative procedure gives the same weight to the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union on a wide range of areas (for example, economic governance, immigration, energy, transport, the environment and consumer protection). The vast majority of European laws are adopted jointly by the European Parliament and the Council.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its fairly easy, simply vote EXIT; Leave the EU

then watch as other follow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your view of what the European Parliament can do is about 3 sets of European treaties (and between 7 and 25 years) out of date.

must have taken a while to copy all that out, so what's your point?

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up"

i said by the people, so please read before you comment

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up

i said by the people, so please read before you comment

just looked it up 2nd time today, there is 28 of them. would you like a link so you can skim read that also

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up"

Er hello. Did I sleep through the election of Juncker as president of the commission. Please tell me the date of the "peoples vote" that put him into his position.

Ditto Donald Tusk. When was his peoples vote?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up

Er hello. Did I sleep through the election of Juncker as president of the commission. Please tell me the date of the "peoples vote" that put him into his position.

Ditto Donald Tusk. When was his peoples vote?

Do we get to vote who leads the parties leaders of our own goverment? No. We vote in people into the EU goverment and they vote who they want as leader

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By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

MEPs are elected. Who are the unelected bureaucrats?

The European Commission. Political placemen and mostly failed, or put out to grass, national politicians. Kinnock being a prime example.

If their role was just to oversee decisions made by the elected parliament it wouldn't be too bad, but it's not.

These guys make the rules and all major decisions affecting 500 million people and not one is elected.

Which members of the EC are unelected?

The whole of the European Commission. All 28 of them including Jucker the President.

You could also add Donald Tusk. President of the European council (former Polish premier, now political placeman)

The other President (European Parliament) is at least elected in Germany.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info but it's not true. They're all proposed and elected, the president is elected by the EP.

I think he means that they aren't elected by us

True, but they are elected by someone we elected.

Clearly you are not informed. You should be. This is an important vote.

No leader of Europe is elected without a people's vote.

Go look it up

Er hello. Did I sleep through the election of Juncker as president of the commission. Please tell me the date of the "peoples vote" that put him into his position.

Ditto Donald Tusk. When was his peoples vote?

no, you was awake, others was dreaming they or somebody they know voted, but im uninformed so ignore me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've been reading up on both sides of the argument then!

Oh, sorry, I replied to the wrong post.

What are the absolute certainties of the Out campaign?

we keep the nhs

we keep the sterling

we keep trade

no more daily contributions to a system that tells us how and where to put our money

lower tax

safer towns

wont get tied into wars that are none of our buisness.

It's always good to see people beating the drum for NATO and even better to see them tying the UK through NATO to the strongest military countries in Europe. It's a marvel when someone combines those viewpoints with writing "the likes of turkey wantong to join the eu but dont have anything to bring to the table".

It's a pity that those same people don't seem to realise that 22 of the 28 countries in NATO are EU countries. Then again, do slag off Turkey as having nothing to contribute, after all it's part of NATO too.

So the next time a Brexiteer sings the praises of NATO as being the sole sponsor of peace in Europe, we can expect them to give an honourable mention to the 22 EU countries in NATO and, naturally, to thank our ally Turkey.

I expect too that the next time a Brexiteer gives us a little lecture about unelected bureaucrats they'll put a word in for our immediate exit from NATO. After all we have no vote on who is in the North Atlantic Council. Even worse we have no vote at all in the decisions of the Nuclear Planning Group - but I suppose Brexiteers will say "why should we make up our own policy on when nuclear weapons will be deployed?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Of course we have democracy in the uk. But the eu is run by unelected beurocrats who have no constituents to answer to. In the European Parliament the MEP's can't propose legislation or vote on it. So what is the point of it? And do you know how many presidents of the EU there are?

Your view of what the European Parliament can do is about 3 sets of European treaties (and between 7 and 25 years) out of date.

must have taken a while to copy all that out, so what's your point?

It took no time at all to copy, but I certainly wouldn't waste any more of my time trying to explain it to you if you can't understand it.

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