FabSwingers.com forum: obnoxious brexit supporters

By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ...

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Because it's an emotive subject and thusly elicits emotive, rather than rational, responses.

On both sides, tbf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

* Other brexiters are available *

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

I know which comment you were referring to, I guess you just need to rise above it and remember Fuertaventura is a lovely place.

Too many people get too personal on a number of these threads. The good thing is that you get to know what people are really like!

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ...

I know which comment you were referring to, I guess you just need to rise above it and remember Fuertaventura is a lovely place.

Too many people get too personal on a number of these threads. The good thing is that you get to know what people are really like!

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks that.

Don't worry though, you have won many friends too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reverse snobbery exists too.

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

Have i missed some fireworks? Bugger !!

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By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

To be honest, idealogically I'm opposed to the EU, but that swivel-eyed quasi-fascist Farrage and Boris are doing a good job of making me consider voting to remain in...

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments."

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

As soon as you start straying from the facts and into personal insults, you've blown it.

Amazingly, some of the people who are the first to point this out are also the first to start with the personal and abusive attacks.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments. "

I can see your halo glowing from here!

A shining example of the 'simple sword of truth and the trust shield of fair play' as Jonathon Aitken said before he went to jail for perjury.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

I can see your halo glowing from here!

A shining example of the 'simple sword of truth and the trust shield of fair play' as Jonathon Aitken said before he went to jail for perjury.

Bingo!

You just proved my point perfectly. Rather than make your own points on this thread you just attack me personally. Bravo and well done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again this is one of those times i cant tell if something is ironic or just hypocritical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in favour of exiting Europe but on here the EU threads are always the same people, arguing about the same things, with the same outcome.

It's rather tedious so I totally avoid commenting on them now.

Both sides of the face just end up throwing insults about after a while.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders"

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them"

bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

bollocks"

In what way?

The white paper basicsly had high oil prices and tax income from that balancing the projected budget.

Oil has dropped below the value it was then and way below the levels they needed.

Scotland would have had to have been raising taxes or cutting services in order to pay for that deficit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

bollocks

In what way?

The white paper basicsly had high oil prices and tax income from that balancing the projected budget.

Oil has dropped below the value it was then and way below the levels they needed.

Scotland would have had to have been raising taxes or cutting services in order to pay for that deficit "

yes n plenty experts reckon Scotland would have thrived,,but hey we,re ALL DOOOOMED

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

bollocks

In what way?

The white paper basicsly had high oil prices and tax income from that balancing the projected budget.

Oil has dropped below the value it was then and way below the levels they needed.

Scotland would have had to have been raising taxes or cutting services in order to pay for that deficit

yes n plenty experts reckon Scotland would have thrived,,but hey we,re ALL DOOOOMED"

I agree Scotland could well have thrived as an indipendant nation.

And I belive the scare mongering bollocks of the uk blocking thier entry into the EU out of spite was just that amongst most of the other scare tactics.

Stability is good for economics so most parties involved would like to keep things stable.

Such as i think the EU could well have exempted scotland from having to erect a border with the uk and the uk would also have forgone that.

Just because it would be a pointless expense and beurocracy isnt as bizzare as people like to make out.

However any thriving wpuld not have been under the proposed budget/plan as it was provably flawed ie its required conditions did not occur

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By *gent005Man
over a year ago

Button F'ing Moon

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

bollocks

In what way?

The white paper basicsly had high oil prices and tax income from that balancing the projected budget.

Oil has dropped below the value it was then and way below the levels they needed.

Scotland would have had to have been raising taxes or cutting services in order to pay for that deficit "

At the time of the Scottish referendum at least Scotland had a plan of survival (oil revenue)..

What's England's survival plan?

Steel (tata)

Car industry (rover)

what will the house of England's sauce of income be if we exit and it doesn't go to plan

And personally I believe the powers that be want the EU to work..

If we leave & are successful then what do you think the other power houses of the EU will do.. follow us maybe? Meaning the collapse of the EU all together...

And no I've never liked the idea of the EU but if we are to leave a series plan needs to be put in place and I don't trust any of them MPs the cons to do right by the people long term...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

lol sounds like someone has been having a dig at you,

come on, open up, tell us the whole story, what did they say, what did you say, to make them retaliate,

come on, lets get the true facts,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them"

Nonsense, calculations were made over and above oil prices, last year was not the first slump in prices, 1999/2000 saw oil drop down to £12 a barrel,

same as today it is rising back up as are fuel prices,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hilarious folk say leaving Europe wont affect the uk's trade,nothing will change they say.

yet when Scotland voted on leaving the uk,,these same people said all trade would stop.

no one would trade with Scotland.

utter shite spouted by little englanders

Actually i think the main point against Scotland was thier huge betting of oil prices going up to pay for everything.

And with hindsight and the oil price slump that would have been utter disaster for them

bollocks

In what way?

The white paper basicsly had high oil prices and tax income from that balancing the projected budget.

Oil has dropped below the value it was then and way below the levels they needed.

Scotland would have had to have been raising taxes or cutting services in order to pay for that deficit

At the time of the Scottish referendum at least Scotland had a plan of survival (oil revenue)..

What's England's survival plan?

Steel (tata)

Car industry (rover)

what will the house of England's sauce of income be if we exit and it doesn't go to plan

And personally I believe the powers that be want the EU to work..

If we leave & are successful then what do you think the other power houses of the EU will do.. follow us maybe? Meaning the collapse of the EU all together...

And no I've never liked the idea of the EU but if we are to leave a series plan needs to be put in place and I don't trust any of them MPs the cons to do right by the people long term..."

You think we make loads of money from the steel and motor industry manufacturing?

I'd say more money is made with selling oil, or telco, or the supermarkets, or banks.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Hasn't anyone mentioned TTIP yet?

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

Bingo!

You just proved my point perfectly. Rather than make your own points on this thread you just attack me personally. Bravo and well done.

Get over yourself for one minute man.

At the very least understand what a personal atack/insult is!

If someone says "all BMW drivers are arseholes" that's not personal.

And if someone says "your wrong and I disagree with you" that's not and attack or an insult.

Your a

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

I can see your halo glowing from here!

A shining example of the 'simple sword of truth and the trust shield of fair play' as Jonathon Aitken said before he went to jail for perjury.

Bingo!

You just proved my point perfectly. Rather than make your own points on this thread you just attack me personally. Bravo and well done.

LOL. Sense of humour failiure today?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I've found an obnoxious Brexit supporter...

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

EU referendum: Donald Trump backs Brexit

The UK would be "better off without" the European Union, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said.

He told Fox News the migration crisis had been a "horrible thing for Europe" and blamed the EU for driving it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Discuss.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

If that "Hoofwanking bunglecunt" Trump thinks leaving is a good idea, I'm def staying !

p.s. I love that my spellchecker does not correct the word trump into a capital T as it does not recognise it's a name. It thinks its a fart.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"If that "Hoofwanking bunglecunt" Trump thinks leaving is a good idea, I'm def staying !

p.s. I love that my spellchecker does not correct the word trump into a capital T as it does not recognise it's a name. It thinks its a fart. "

But he's really rich and opinionated - surely the Leave campaign will love him?

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"EU referendum: Donald Trump backs Brexit

The UK would be "better off without" the European Union, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said.

He told Fox News the migration crisis had been a "horrible thing for Europe" and blamed the EU for driving it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Discuss.

"
clearly there are many obnoxious brexit supporters president Putin ..president hopeful trump ..why would I take the advice of these people ..with supporters like these I'm IN thanks

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Trumps the anti immigrant who employs them for cheap labour. Hypocrites don't list highly as people that will influence me, so brexit message ignored.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments. "

For as long as I've been reading this forum there have been a small number of people repeatedly making errors in presenting their case against the EU. Most people obviously couldn't be arsed to challenge them because of the patronising rudeness the few people who did try got in return.

When challenged politely - as I used to long ago - they'd go off into long rants of unsubstantiatable claims. If you tried to discuss those on a point by point basis you get more and more lies and rants.

After far too long in the past being silent myself about the ignorance displayed by that tiny noisy and repetitive hard core europhobic faction, i think it's fair to raise objections and if necessary reflect back their own extremely rude and patronising tone.

As for the OPs original post, the post I think you were referring to was tacked onto one of my answers, so to me it seemed like they were referring to Chelsfield, here on the edge of the garden of England, as a dust bowl. I just thought they'd gone crackers.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

hello op.....and u were the person that called me a muppet for my opinion....I will vote out if its ok with u..... cant take the heat dont dish it ....love jj

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"EU referendum: Donald Trump backs Brexit

The UK would be "better off without" the European Union, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said.

He told Fox News the migration crisis had been a "horrible thing for Europe" and blamed the EU for driving it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Discuss.

At least dear old Donald is able to be upfront and honest about the reasons for Brexit.

It's a referendum on immigration - nothing more, nothing less. It has unleashed some very ugly nationalistic forces, which are going to be difficult to pack away again either way. The darker side of human emotions are being pandered to and encouraged.

The frightening bit will be when it dawns on the Brexiteers (and Trump) that immigration is a necessary fact of our current political system and Globalisation. Imagine the scenes if Trump follows through on his promise of forcibly patronizing 11m immigrants. It's just terrifying.

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By *oredShitlessxxxCouple
over a year ago

luton

"EU referendum: Donald Trump backs Brexit

The UK would be "better off without" the European Union, US presidential hopeful Donald Trump has said.

He told Fox News the migration crisis had been a "horrible thing for Europe" and blamed the EU for driving it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612

Discuss.

Correct in my humble opinion, Europeans are flooding the UK. Companies in turn are over the moon at the cheap labour source which they receive. Whilst cost of living increases. Eg a company that provides very high dependency care highers Europeans whom will work for lodgings, 10 hours minimum pay a day, but they are required to be on call/provide 24 hour care, which is akin to specialist nursing care.

That's just one example...

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"hello op.....and u were the person that called me a muppet for my opinion....I will vote out if its ok with u..... cant take the heat dont dish it ....love jj"
hi jj I can take constructive criticism..based on fact but comments Bourne out of hatred and emotion really you think they are justified ? ..i take it you read the original post to which i was referring . ..or yet again are you commenting on something you have no idea about ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hasn't anyone mentioned TTIP yet?"

Yeh that one tends to get overlooked.. lol

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

Sits watches and smiles as always

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

Because thats the while brexit camps strategy, shout and scream, call everyone who disagrees names and then still fail to provide any use able tangible facts.

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ...

Because thats the while brexit camps strategy, shout and scream, call everyone who disagrees names and then still fail to provide any use able tangible facts. "

Oh and the remainers don't!!!!!!

Name calling I mean

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

Oh and the remainers don't!!!!!!

Name calling I mean"

Agreed. Both sides are can be bad for it.

The thing that frustrates the most (as mentioned above) is the inability to stick to one point of the debate and follow it to its confusion.

As soon as someone feels they losing the upper hand, rather than concede the point or, God forbid, change opinion, most just head off at a tangent and start ranting about an aspect of the debate they are confident they can win.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My heart says leave the European Union my brain says we should stay.

Divorce is always ugly and expensive, attempting to dismantle a long union has its problems. You lose friends, make enemies, and in my case end up skint with everything I've worked for lost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 06/05/16 16:01:01]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ...

Because thats the while brexit camps strategy, shout and scream, call everyone who disagrees names and then still fail to provide any use able tangible facts.

Oh and the remainers don't!!!!!!

Name calling I mean"

Not even close to the same scale no. I mean how stupid is the Obama bashing just because he doesn't think the same as some.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

I've made this point before, the E.U. we have now will not be the same in five or ten years and we will have still less powers to govern ourselves than we have now and much less influence in the world than if we left.

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ...

Because thats the while brexit camps strategy, shout and scream, call everyone who disagrees names and then still fail to provide any use able tangible facts.

Oh and the remainers don't!!!!!!

Name calling I mean

Not even close to the same scale no. I mean how stupid is the Obama bashing just because he doesn't think the same as some. "

OK then, I suggest you read all the posts and threads concerning this subject. then come back and tell me your findings.

Both are as bad as each other.

Oh and whilst writing. I happen to think Obama is the worst President that country has ever had. Ask the population of the USA, sure you'll find more than a few that will agree with me.

Sits watches smiles

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec "
we've tried being out remember the immigration crisis in the sixties ..we were free to control our borders and govern ourselves ..well that didn't work then and wont work now ..the winging Brits will always look for someone to blame instead if looking for the positive side in or out the Brits will always whinge about how hard dine by they are ...work positively with what you have ...

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec we've tried being out remember the immigration crisis in the sixties ..we were free to control our borders and govern ourselves ..well that didn't work then and wont work now ..the winging Brits will always look for someone to blame instead if looking for the positive side in or out the Brits will always whinge about how hard dine by they are ...work positively with what you have ..."

It worked a damn sight better than it does now. at least we had the choice on who came.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"hello op.....and u were the person that called me a muppet for my opinion....I will vote out if its ok with u..... cant take the heat dont dish it ....love jj"

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

It worked a damn sight better than it does now. at least we had the choice on who came."
not suer Enoch Powell would agree with you on that one ..the choice of who enters is one the government makes ..and pick any credible party there's no difference between them in what there stance will be .. immigration is a media issue to sell news no more than that ohh and to create a position in society for the likes of farage......

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Bingo!

You just proved my point perfectly. Rather than make your own points on this thread you just attack me personally. Bravo and well done.

Get over yourself for one minute man.

At the very least understand what a personal atack/insult is!

If someone says "all BMW drivers are arseholes" that's not personal.

And if someone says "your wrong and I disagree with you" that's not and attack or an insult.

Your a "

What alternate reality are you living in???? It's obvious it was a personal attack they directly quoted me, lol, then they made an obnoxious and condescending comment. Go figure.....

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hasn't anyone mentioned TTIP yet?"

No the remainers don't talk about TTIP because they know they are onto a loser with that argument. All they go on and on and on about is the economy.

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

It worked a damn sight better than it does now. at least we had the choice on who came.not suer Enoch Powell would agree with you on that one ..the choice of who enters is one the government makes ..and pick any credible party there's no difference between them in what there stance will be .. immigration is a media issue to sell news no more than that ohh and to create a position in society for the likes of farage......"

Well as you now reside in the Canaries, you wont mind how we do things in little old England.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

I can see your halo glowing from here!

A shining example of the 'simple sword of truth and the trust shield of fair play' as Jonathon Aitken said before he went to jail for perjury.

Bingo!

You just proved my point perfectly. Rather than make your own points on this thread you just attack me personally. Bravo and well done.

LOL. Sense of humour failiure today?"

No just pointing out you are guilty of what the OP was talking about, only you do it on the remain side.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

I suggest to anyone with the left sides sentiment... With open arms to anyone and everyone to come and live, work and have lots of babies in the UK.... to visit the cities, London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Bradford, Leeds, etc. to see with your own eyes just what kind of country you are wishing for....

Nigel Farage is not racist, he has shook the establishment, worked very hard to create a series of events that have opened up eyes, ears and minds of the electorate to some serious problems with remaining members of the EU, a union that takes more than it gives, to sit at a table isn't enough.... as no matter what we say at the table, we are powerless over our own destiny and so is every country in this union... the difference being, we are being penalised for our own success, with £billions of pounds being paid out from the UK, for no return.... a splitting at the seams NHS, lack of housing, lack of public school places and the list goes on....

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Well as you now reside in the Canaries, you wont mind how we do things in little old England.

"
unfortunately we still hold uk passports and and any freedoms you remove from uk citizens also applies to uk so yes we do mind what goes on in the UK in fact an exit vote will affect uk citizens overseas more than those who live in the UK as we exercise most rights afforded by the EU and you clearly dont

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

You challenge people politely? ??? Now that really is the biggest joke I think I've ever read on this forum. For as long as you've been posting on here you have thrown around cheap Ukip insults and consistently called people liars if they even dare to disagree with you about any subject, let alone the EU. You called people racists and xenophobic for disagreeing with you about isis fighters coming into the EU posing as refugees during the migrant crisis. When it actually happened with the Paris terror attacks you were proved wrong. I'm still yet to hear you offer any kind of apology to anyone for the nasty insults and accusations you threw around at people.....won't hold my breath waiting either.

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......"
the inner cities were the same in the 60s with immigration from our overseas cousins no eu membership then full control of uk borders still they came ...as for billions going to the EU its a tiny sum in comparison to the amount the UK government spends ..which is over 720 billion pounds each year of which less than 10 billion goes to the EU ..for all the benefits we receive from them .

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

All they go on and on and on about is the economy. "

Well if you join a thread entitled "payments to the EU" then people are gonna keep coming back to the economy when you keep going off topic cos your arguments about the economy aren't stacking up.

Go figure (or more accurately, fail to go figure, as the case was)

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

All they go on and on and on about is the economy.

Well if you join a thread entitled "payments to the EU" then people are gonna keep coming back to the economy when you keep going off topic cos your arguments about the economy aren't stacking up.

Go figure (or more accurately, fail to go figure, as the case was)"
the original post was obnoxious brexit supporters....but hey I've got bored with that topic so hijack away for more fun ..

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Go figure (or more accurately, fail to go figure, as the case was)the original post was obnoxious brexit supporters....but hey I've got bored with that topic so hijack away for more fun .."

Oh the irony.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

Poor baby. There you go though, off on an ignorant, wrong and irrelevant rant about migrants and Paris terror attacks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......"

Ah, the old "I ain't no racist but have you seen what those brown people are doing to our country argument" conundrum.

It's a bit like Schrodinger's Cat.

I wish people would just admit the bleeding obvious.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

Poor baby. There you go though, off on an ignorant, wrong and irrelevant rant about migrants and Paris terror attacks."

Come again???? You admitted it yourself on one of those migrant crisis/Paris terror attack threads after it was released on just about every news media outlet that 2 of the Paris attackers had travelled from Syria posing as refugees through Europe into Paris. You do remember admitting that don't you? Still no apology for calling various people racist or xenophobic though? Still trying to paint this picture that you politely challenge people?

How is it wrong or irrelevant then, when this thread is about obnoxious and condescending comments/insults to highlight that you have been guilty of it on this forum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......"

...Well said.

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

...Well said."
America not EU has immigration problems ...Australia not EU has immigration problems... need I go on out of the EU won't solve it it never did in the 60s and wont now ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

...Well said."
this is just silly you could say the same about new York ..Washington dc. ..Sydney..Doha Riyadh and none of those cities are in the EU it's called globalisation not the EU ...brexit is not what you guys think it's gonna be you can't trade with a country while stopping it's citizen's from entering your country ...in order to have foreign investment you must have foreign citizens

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is it wrong or irrelevant then, when this thread is about obnoxious and condescending comments/insults to highlight that you have been guilty of it on this forum.

One point at a time then. You are a xenophobe and for all I know may be racist too. The faintest whiff of halal, the merest hint of brown skin, the vaguest mention of islam, the slightest suggestion that foreigners are not all evil, the very glimpse of a suffering refugee sends you into ructions of hate based on your fear of foreigners. We've all read that from you hundreds of times. Its at the very core of your attitude to foreigners. You are the definition of xenophobia. Forgive me if I do not apologise for pointing that out, ever, to you and others who have behaved in the way you do.

Secondly: I remember very well the Paris attacks and that within minutes there were people on here saying that the attackers were migrants. I remember quite clearly agreeing with other people who said let's wait until they've been properly identified, but you and your camp followers repeated the same unjustified accusations for days based on nothing more than one Syrian passport that turned out to be false.

A few days after the attack there was news that that passport belonged to a Syrian migrant and I immediately said it looked like I was wrong. You've acknowledged that above with great glee. That, as far as I'm concerned was a mistake on my part because the latest reporting on that document is that it was a fake so it proves fuck all.

If you took the trouble to look at the most recent reporting about the people who were involved you will find a long list of Belgian and French nationals living in Belgium and France. You will find reference to a Syrian passport which is false and to someone identified as coming through Lesbos by fingerprints but has not been identified. So you have a load of French and Belgian terorists and two unknown people, and noone knows where they travelled from other than one was in Lesbos. Just because you are in Lesbos doesn't mean you started in Syria - you yourself have whinged repeatedly about many people who aren't Syrian refugees coming via that route frequently referring to them as economic migrants.

You obnoxiously insist on blaming the terror attacks on migrants when those who have been positivley identifed have been Belgian/French and maybe Moroccan. You should be apologising to refugees for your racial stereotyping.

Third: I am interested in that you brought up migration and terrorism, because we all know that Farage has told you that you've lost the economic argument and now need to move your campaign of fear and intimidation onto migration and security - or in your case insecurity.

Fifth: I'm not trying to paint a picture that says I politely challenge people. I'll challenge you and your UKIP generated lies on any terms I feel like. You've got away with lies and your poor hurt tone when intimidation doesn't work for far too long. In even this case you couldn't get it right could you? I said I used to challenge your lies politely (that was more than a year ago). Now I don't give a fuck about your sensibilities. There are other nicer, diplomatic people on here who can try to get you to tell the truth in nice ways.

I pity their frustration.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

How is it wrong or irrelevant then, when this thread is about obnoxious and condescending comments/insults to highlight that you have been guilty of it on this forum.

I pity their frustration."

I just knew you would put the usual Man4you completely bonkers politically correct spin on it. The facts have been reported in the press and the media about the Paris attacks, the initial allegations that they were conducted by migrants were completely justified because the fact is 2 of them turned out to have come from Syria. You jumped the gun and threw around accusations of racism and xenophobia towards various people on here, which turned out to be completely wrong when myself and others were vindicated by what transpired in the news and the media.

You seem to be even more annoyed and vengeful than usual today, perhaps it's because UKIP gained 7 seats in the Welsh assembly last night and gained seats in the English council elections.

So have a nice evening with your hateful poisonous forum persona, I'm off out to celebrate later.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How is it wrong or irrelevant then, when this thread is about obnoxious and condescending comments/insults to highlight that you have been guilty of it on this forum.

I pity their frustration.

You seem to be even more annoyed and vengeful than usual today, perhaps it's because UKIP gained 7 seats in the Welsh assembly last night and gained seats in the English council elections.

So have a nice evening with your hateful poisonous forum persona, I'm off out to celebrate later.

Have a nice evening celebrating fuck all of nothing

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

...Well said. this is just silly you could say the same about new York ..Washington dc. ..Sydney..Doha Riyadh and none of those cities are in the EU it's called globalisation not the EU ...brexit is not what you guys think it's gonna be you can't trade with a country while stopping it's citizen's from entering your country ...in order to have foreign investment you must have foreign citizens "

Have a look at the EU - Canada trade deal. It is a 98% free trade deal and Canada does not accept free movement of people from the EU as part of that deal. Before you say it does not include services for which the UK is heavily reliant on services, there are no tariffs on the services industry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

Before you say CETA does not include services, you should consider the following from the CETA web site under the heading 'streamlining trade in services': "Around half of the overall GDP gains for the EU are expected to come from liberalising trade in services. CETA will bring new opportunities for European companies by creating access to the Canadian market in key sectors such as financial services, telecommunications, energy and maritime transport. Overall, output gains for the EU could amount to €5.8 billion per year once the agreement is fully implemented.

If the UK leaves the EU, our services industry will be losing its share of that potential 5.8 bn euros per year. Then we'll also be losing the potential benfits in goods trade, around about another 5.8 bn.

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully we all have fully functioning decision making parts of our brains (that must have some fancy Greek/Latin based name) just wondering if anyone on these forums think they are influencing others?

Or, as I suspect just arguing for the sake of it!

BTW I'm out and don't believe I'm all that obnoxious...

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

I notice you never gave a reply to Wolf Ryders comment 3 days ago on the other thread. Also as a free, sovereign and independent country outside of the EU we can do a Canada - British free trade deal which will be beneficial to the UK and Canada.

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3154628/Britain-punished-outpacing-Europe-contributions-Brussels-leap-3-1billion-five-years.html

Www.thecommentator.com/article/5968/uk_s_success_means_eu_contributions_rise_by_over_3_billion

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

don't worry... they just wander from one debunks talking point of the day to another....

its like they are trying to get mud to stick or something........

and when it gets dunked... it onto the next... its so scattergun its actually laughable for being sad....

someone tried using the steel industry arguement.... another that the fact rich russians are buying london houses.....

fuck what obama says.... but lourd it over trump!!! oh... and putin.... and marine le pen....

if i add nige far..... is that akin to the "4 horsepeople of the apocalypse...."

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of deals with the yanks and the Canadians that we or the EU do or do not complete.

The EU have set a precedent with European countries of requiring free movement in order to enter into trade deals. Wether others outside the EU do or not won't make much difference to what real we can get.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"don't worry... they just wander from one debunks talking point of the day to another....

its like they are trying to get mud to stick or something........

and when it gets dunked... it onto the next... its so scattergun its actually laughable for being sad....

someone tried using the steel industry arguement.... another that the fact rich russians are buying london houses.....

fuck what obama says.... but lourd it over trump!!! oh... and putin.... and marine le pen....

if i add nige far..... is that akin to the "4 horsepeople of the apocalypse...."

Not quite but David Cameron will be predicting plagues of locusts to hit the UK on June 24th if we don't stay in.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of deals with the yanks and the Canadians that we or the EU do or do not complete.

that same EU-Canada deal took 8 years..... what make you believe a uk-eu deal, or a uk-canada deal, or that fabled uk-us deal would be done any quicker....

as always... heres my next question.... whats plan b?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I'm not sure I understand the relevance of deals with the yanks and the Canadians that we or the EU do or do not complete.

that same EU-Canada deal took 8 years..... what make you believe a uk-eu deal, or a uk-canada deal, or that fabled uk-us deal would be done any quicker....

as always... heres my next question.... whats plan b?

That's a pretty simple one really Fabio, the EU has to get agreement among 28 member countries. So obviously that is going to take longer than a 1 to 1 country deal which a UK - Canada deal would be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Yeah Wolf Ryder really got me there didn't he? What a pity that the most recent ONS bulletin on our services exports says: "Total UK exports of services to Europe witnessed the largest increase in 2014, rising from £57,150 million in 2013 to £58,711 million, an increase of 2.7%.

But let's take your point - we have a deal with Canada which will give us massive growth in services but you expect the UK to throw that away and wait what 5 years, 7 years, 9 years for your lot to recreate the equivalent deal. It looks like we'd have the sovereign right to piss trade down the drain.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's what Dominic Cummings, campaign director of vote leave had to tell the Treasury Committee in parliament about the UK's capability to negotiate trade deals:

Question: Does the British Civil Service, which you have worked closely with in the past, have the institutional capability to do that? Is it of a high enough calibre?

Dominic Cummings: I have written about this extensively. There are huge problems with how Whitehall operates these days. There are huge problems with diversion of clever people away from Whitehall. I certainly would not be confident now with the Foreign Office and the rest of Whitehall negotiating almost anything. We have seen what an appallingly cack-handed job they have just done of the last EU negotiations; a lot of these guys cannot negotiate their way out of a paper bag. In the short term, no; there would have to be a huge amount of work done in order for people to raise their game.

That inspires confidence in some speedy negotiation by the UK, doesn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax."

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

Product A Sells at 100 pounds a unit for 20 years but over the next ten it 2 pound a year till its down to 50 but then the next year it goes up 4 pounds to 54 beofe dropping back down again over the next 2 years to 50.

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 06/05/16 21:02:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

I wouldn't call a whole year's data cherry picking. But putting that to one side, your Telegraph article says absolutely nothing to support your claim that exports in services to the EU are falling. There were no cherries there for you to pick - your harvest failed. It gives no time series figures for trade in services.

The Telegraph does refer out to another ONS bulletin which again doesn't compare the trade in services with any other year explicitly. It says UK "trade in services balance with the EU is much more favourable, running a surplus in each year since 2005, which reached £15.4 billion in 2014".

Your references have no data to support your claim. Mine do. I think I'll continue to choose to ignore your comments and add, for the sake of it, even if our services trade was in decline with the EU, walking away from a treaty that gives that trade a chance to grow massively elsewhere is pissing trade down the drain.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

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By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

That's a pretty simple one really Fabio, the EU has to get agreement among 28 member countries. So obviously that is going to take longer than a 1 to 1 country deal which a UK - Canada deal would be. "

Ok. So aside from hopefully being easier to do the deal on our own we are just hoping that any even ove mimic loss from leaving the away will be made up for by a deal we hope to get with Canada or USA.

Which we may have as well if we stay in the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

Thanks for the Brexit tax."

No one years data is cherry picking as its a single data point....

The third graph shows the combined trade and sevices. Notice that the EU line is dropping? Consistently.

Searching "uk service exports graph" should find you a few given we cant link here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

No one years data is cherry picking as its a single data point....

The third graph shows the combined trade and sevices. Notice that the EU line is dropping? Consistently.

Searching "uk service exports graph" should find you a few given we cant link here.

Yep I'm looking at the UK national accounts right now. Table B6 will help you for the last two years or you can google "United Kingdom Economic Accounts time series dataset" which will give you the values between 1999 and 2015. You can find exports of services uner L7DB and the balance of trade in services under L837y in national accounts and the data set.

According to the national accounts, exports in services to the EU have increased year on year between 1999 and 2015 (by more than a factor of four) and our balance of trade has gone from negative to massively positive in that period.

You can look it up for yourself. In the meanwhile I think I'm justified in ignoring your statement about our trade in services with the EU., I'm going to take a huge risk here and say that I trust the national accounts not you.

And once again, even if our balance of trade in services with the EU was in decline (you can read the figures above and enjoy our economic success with me), I see no reason for pissing away trade by making the country lose the benefit of that trade deal while we wait years to negotiate something else.

Thanks for the Brexit tax but no thanks.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

These posts are getting awfully long again...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting awfully long again... "

Pah you have no stamina.

But you are right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting awfully long again...

Pah you have no stamina.

But you are right."

Well... Funny thing about stamina....What is it?

Ever wondered if it’s possible to have that Action Man physique, along with workhorse cardio? Well, the answer is yes. The two can even be complimentary – good aerobic fitness can enhance your recovery time by promoting blood-flow and oxygen to your muscles, which is essential for muscle growth.

Who should do it?

Being stacked and having a good aerobic capacity is especially important for people who play contact sports such as rugby as they need to have the weight to take the contact and the lung-power to last the full length of the game.

How does it work?

There are three key areas you must get right; weight training, cardio training and nutrition.

Weight training

You need to complete three weight sessions per week. Muscle growth happens as a result of the quality of your weight training. Try and add high stress repetitions at the end of each set.

Cardiovascular training

You need to complete three interval-training sessions per week. Alternate these with your weight training sessions. Each interval should last between 30 seconds up to two minutes. Four to eight sets need to be completed depending on how long each interval is.

Nutrition

If don’t see a change in your size then chances are your carbohydrates are too low. Low-carb diets eat up protein so if you consume protein but not carbohydrates – you won’t gain muscle.

If you’re not putting on weight then you’re not eating enough calories which sends your body into starvation mode – breaking down muscle tissue to conserve energy.

The exercises

Cardio

Day 1: Four sets of 400m at 10% incline with two minutes recovery between sets.

Day 2: Three sets of 1000m at 3% incline with 4 minutes recovery between sets.

Day 3: Six sets of 400m at 1% incline with 1 minute recovery between sets.

Weights

Stick to these general rules and your weights workouts should be fine:

Three to four exercises per body group

Once a week

3-4 sets per exercise

45-60 seconds between sets

Go heavy!

Tip Try and make sure you are getting at least 8 hours sleep a night. A siesta here and there can also allow your body some extra time for growth and repair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec "

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

Maybe it's just a reflection of Tory spin - every time we have a Tory government they have to show to their vocal minority - didn't Major call them The Bastards- that the UK is behaving like a spoiled petulant baby, throwing their weight around and not getting everything they want from the evil EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

What research?

As in votes the UK is on the losing side more often than any other nation in the bloc.

By a pretty massive margin too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

No one years data is cherry picking as its a single data point....

The third graph shows the combined trade and sevices. Notice that the EU line is dropping? Consistently.

Searching "uk service exports graph" should find you a few given we cant link here.

Thanks for the Brexit tax but no thanks."

Ahhh im sorry i see the confusion here.

You're arguing in absolute terms im arguing in %.

Ie our trade with EU is rising in terms of money made, but as a % of our total trade it's falling.

While the % of our trade with the rest of the world is rising.

That should put us back on the same page now.

And again point to remain being short term gain at the cost of long term opertunities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

Arguably you could say we have a large influence as it is. Using BREXITs own figures about 2000 resolutions per year (Boris' figure) are voted on by the EU legislative bodies. Since joining the EEC/EU Britain has been on the loosing side of votes 72 times. Britain has been in the EU 43 years.

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------"

Those stats are out of date.

Theres a lot more no votes from all sides now.

Over the whole life time its about 98% but in the last two years our losing side has increased to 12%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Figures from votewatch

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

What research?

As in votes the UK is on the losing side more often than any other nation in the bloc.

By a pretty massive margin too"

And where is the research to support your claim?

As for mine the you could look at the Decision-Making in the European Union (DEU) dataset put together by Robert Thomson, at the University of Strathclyde. The dataset contains information on 331 controversial issues on 125 pieces of EU legislation. For each of these issues, Robert and his colleagues identified the preferred policy position of each EU government, the EU Commission, and the European Parliament.

As the results show, at least for these 125 pieces of legislation, the UK government has been far from “marginalised”. In fact, out of 29 EU actors (27 member states plus the Commission and the Parliament), the UK was on average the fourth closest actor to final policy outcomes. Furthermore, the UK has tended to be much closer to policy outcomes than any other large EU member state. Also, perhaps surprisingly for some British commentators, France and the EU Commission are towards the bottom of the tables.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Visit one of the aforementioned cities and see the effects of the last 10 years following someone leaving our door open......

Now you've forgotten your own lie of 3 days ago:

That would be part of the Brexit tax.

And you conveniently forgot to quote the reply Wolf Ryder gave to your comment 3 days ago on the other thread which was....

"But service exports to Europe are dropping and show no signs of coming back up.

So short term gain staying in but long term gain out where our service exports are rising."

Besides if we stay in the 5.8 billion you say we'll be better off by will be offset against the extra 3.1 billion in EU membership fees we will be paying over the next 5 years.

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

You realise cherry picking a single datapoint from year doesnt disprove a trend?

Swrvice exports to europe have been dropping for about a decade.

The fact they went up once in oen year (but still less than they used to be) doesnt change that.

Take an analogy

You'd be rather foolish to go "ah but in 2014 it witnessed the largest growth ever of 8%" as proff that it wasnt falling wouldnt you?

Fun article on trade graphs and charts here (i belive we can post reputable news links)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11700443/The-EUs-dwindling-importance-to-UK-trade-in-three-charts.html

Thanks for the Brexit tax.

No one years data is cherry picking as its a single data point....

The third graph shows the combined trade and sevices. Notice that the EU line is dropping? Consistently.

Searching "uk service exports graph" should find you a few given we cant link here.

Thanks for the Brexit tax but no thanks.

Ahhh im sorry i see the confusion here.

You're arguing in absolute terms im arguing in %.

Ie our trade with EU is rising in terms of money made, but as a % of our total trade it's falling.

While the % of our trade with the rest of the world is rising.

That should put us back on the same page now.

And again point to remain being short term gain at the cost of long term opertunities.

Nope, no confusion at all. We have a trade surplus with the EU on services, it has been growing and it is growing in terms of pounds/euroes. It's pounds that go into the bank not percentages.

And still you miss the point that the CETA trade deal increases our trade in services with the rest of the world. As I've said several times, BREXIT would lose the UK's involvement in that trade deal and piss billions of pounds down the drain on the promise that some time in the future something else might be negotiated.

That's 100% of each of those pounds would be lost if you want to talk percentages.

Thanks for offering us the Brexit tax, I'm 100% against it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------

Those stats are out of date.

Theres a lot more no votes from all sides now.

Over the whole life time its about 98% but in the last two years our losing side has increased to 12%"

So your view is we're winning 88% of the time (100%-12%).

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------"

Daniel Hannan, Conservative MEP wrote an article in October 2014, saying at that moment in time there had been 55 occassions when the UK voted against an EU measure in the council of ministers (the figure is deceptively low, because by tradition countries rarely push matters to the vote when they can see that they will lose). Guess how many times, out of those 55, the UK succeeded in blocking the measure? Thats right. ZERO

That literally is ZERO influence for Britain in the EU.

Also in the article Daniel Hannan points out that when we joined what is now the EU, western europe accounted for 36% of the world economy. In 2014 that figure was 24%, and by 2024 it will be 14%. In 2013, the commonwealth's economy overtook the eurozone's. The EU is a trading block that is shrinking economically on a global level.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------

That literally is ZERO influence for Britain in the EU.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html"

As pointed out by wolf ryder above, the U.K. Was on the winning side of Europe votes 88% of the time between 2009 and 2015. In the ten years before that the uk was on the winning side for 97% of eu votes. That's from vote watch Europe and not some set of fantasy figures invented by Hannan.

The same report tells us that "UK MEPs have captured many powerful agenda setting positions. They have been Vice Presidents, political group leaders and chairs of important committees. U.K. MEPs have also won rapporteurships on key legislation, which has enabled them to shape Euro law. Moreover UK MEPs have not been 'underrepresented' relative to the MEPs from other big member states. and all of this has been possible despite the growing number of UKIP MEPs who have not competed for many key offices or Rapporteurships.

Elsewhere the same report tells us about the terrible voting record of ukip meps. They turn up and vote fewer times than any other party. UKIP is in no position to whinge about lack of influence when it throws it away.

Thanks are due to wolf Ryder for pointing out the UK's magnificent 88% success rate in EU votes.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------

That literally is ZERO influence for Britain in the EU.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html

Thanks are due to wolf Ryder for pointing out the UK's magnificent 88% success rate in EU votes."

It's not ukip whinging about lack of influence in the link I gave though it is a Conservative MEP. Daniel Hannan is not alone in his position towards the EU, the leader of the Conservative party in the European Parliament Syed Kamall is also campaigning for Brexit. Ukip have a consistent position on voting in the European parliament, they refuse to vote on or actively vote against any EU measure or initiative that takes away power from the UK and hands it over to Brussels. That's what the people who voted for them want them to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm not sure which thread you are referring to, there have been several.

But on a number of them, I have noted that it's someone from the remainders camp who first starts with the personal digs and insults.

I always consider it the first sign of a weak argument and/or lack of articulation skills, when someone feels the need make personal comments rather than construct cogent arguments.

A number of those who want to remain in the EU frequently post obnoxious and condescending comments.

Ok looks like I'm the guilty one here but don't get paranoid Man, I haven't a clue where Chelsfield is. My post was a response to the Op's continual digs about the UK going to the dogs etc and that a brexit would mean that we would be denying our children the chance of a better life in Europe. So seems like he is more than happy to put the places down where other people live but gets a bit narked when given back. I spend 2 or 3 months a year in Spain and love the place but yes, Fuertaventura is a dust bowl. Maybe you recognise that and its struck a nerve Op

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

Never once have I put down the UK mainland Spain or anywhere else as a shitty place you comments about Fuerteventura being a shitty place where nobody would buy are Bourne out of ignorance and emotion just as your comments on a ukip and brexit are ...but I suppose being a ukip supporter facts aren't high on your agenda ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok looks like I'm the guilty one here but don't get paranoid Man, I haven't a clue where Chelsfield is. My post was a response to the Op's continual digs about the UK going to the dogs etc and that a brexit would mean that we would be denying our children the chance of a better life in Europe. So seems like he is more than happy to put the places down where other people live but gets a bit narked when given back. I spend 2 or 3 months a year in Spain and love the place but yes, Fuertaventura is a dust bowl. Maybe you recognise that and its struck a nerve Op

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By *horehouse OP Couple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

so do you want to tell us why our children would have a better life in mainland Europe than in the UK? And didn't you say it was a fact that the pound had never gone below 1.21 in the last 5 years? Fuertaventura looks good in the pictures but it is a shitty place and I would advise anyone going to take goggles. And for fairness most of Crewe is a shitty place too. I am not a Ukip supporter by the way"
freedom of choice to live anywhere easily without restriction gives hope to the less fortunate in society who either don't have the finances or the right job opportunities to be able to move countries with visa entry requirements ..for my family who would like to move here in 10 yrs it would be a better life WHY because were here of course ..you say dust bowl and needing goggles utter crap ..we lived on the south coast near the sea in the UK no more dusty here other than when we get a calima ..and with an average of 340 days of sunshine and a much cheaper cost of living here .yeah life here is much better than the UK ..also the canarians attitude to us immigrants is a far friendlier one than the UK ..I'm disappointed you're time living here on Fuerteventura wasn't for you and stand corrected in your UKIP position ..

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By *ourbonKissMan
over a year ago

a land up north..... of leicester

"Why when commenting on forum posts do brexit supporters diss the area to which people have chosen to live instead of trying to find true valued reasons to support there case for brexit ..."

They're just following in the footsteps of the brexit campaign leaders. Ie. All diss and no facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Richy,

following your divorce analogy, remember we have very few friends in the E.U., since we have been a member our politicians have fought a series of losing battles in the E.U..

The United States of Europe rolls inexorably on squashing all the member countries en route.

We must get out at this referendum.

Alec

Funny that you think we have very few friends in the EU. Actually research suggests we are one of the most influential countries in the EU - in fact the most influential big country.

I suppose it's no surprise you think that. It's what you are fed every day by the Mail, Murdock and the Express. Of course, it's far from true.

UnleashedCracken answered this a couple of days ago -----

2000 * 43 = 86000

To workout the %

100 - (73 / 86000) = 99.916

On those figures I'd say we get our own way a lot more than not.

Of course I've used BREXIT's own figures so it could be complete bollocks.

-----------------------

That literally is ZERO influence for Britain in the EU.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2800998/daniel-hannan-no-mr-eurocrat-place-britain-irrelevant-inside-eu.html

Thanks are due to wolf Ryder for pointing out the UK's magnificent 88% success rate in EU votes.

It's UKIPs activist on this site quoting it as if it's gospel.

So Centaur, given that explanation of yours, you're saying that UKIP is perfectly happy with the level of influence we have in Europe, but a tory is whingeing. Being on the 'winning' side 88% of the time is great and UKIP have no reason at all to complain about lack of influence because they can't be arsed to democratically represent their constituents.

88% is a massive amount of influence for the UK in votes in Europe. Well done to those MEPs who actually get off their backsides and do something for the UK instead of whining and collecting their expenses and huge salary for no work at all.

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