FabSwingers.com forum: E U

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

In or out ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"In or out ? "
IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In or out ? IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit"

Out as the in campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support the remain campaign.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Shouldn't we listen to all that facts and make our own minds up ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In or out ? IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit

Out as the in campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support the remain campaign."

Well we are in at the moment so it is up to those who want us out to show us how we will be better off out.

So far they have failed to do so in any meaningful way.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shouldn't we listen to all that facts and make our own minds up ? "

Yes. Of course you should.

You will, however, get no more facts than are currently available.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ary_ArgyllMan
over a year ago

Argyll

"Shouldn't we listen to all that facts and make our own minds up ?

Yes. Of course you should.

You will, however, get no more facts than are currently available."

It is also impossible for the out campaign to produce facts because no one knows exactly what will happen if we do vote to leave!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shouldn't we listen to all that facts and make our own minds up ?

Yes. Of course you should.

You will, however, get no more facts than are currently available.

It is also impossible for the out campaign to produce facts because no one knows exactly what will happen if we do vote to leave!"

Or the in campaign.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"In or out ? IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit

Out as the in campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support the remain campaign."

Apart from several reports from a variety of sources saying that Brexit will damage our economy, you mean?

Meanwhile Brexiters just wave their hands and talk about pie in the sky super mega trade deals we'll make, without giving any actual details or plan...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Shake it all about?

Or more seriously, as we are already in we broadly have a view of what life is like. What will be interesting is at least a vision of what out will look like. All we have is it will be different and we will be like we used to be.

My children want a new world and not one like we used to have, and I want to give them that. So unless we have a compelling vision from the Outs I'm for In.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Thats the worry of it all a . We are told to vote and that its most important to do so . But no one gives us the real non sided facts . Hard to do the right thing I feel .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OUT with out a doubt

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats the worry of it all a . We are told to vote and that its most important to do so . But no one gives us the real non sided facts . Hard to do the right thing I feel . "

Find them out for yourself then, why expect to be spoonfed information? There's tonnes of resources online.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In or out ? IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit

Out as the in campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support the remain campaign.

Apart from several reports from a variety of sources saying that Brexit will damage our economy, you mean?

Meanwhile Brexiters just wave their hands and talk about pie in the sky super mega trade deals we'll make, without giving any actual details or plan..."

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In or out ? IN as the out campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support brexit

Out as the in campaign cannot or will not produce one single fact to support the remain campaign.

Apart from several reports from a variety of sources saying that Brexit will damage our economy, you mean?

Meanwhile Brexiters just wave their hands and talk about pie in the sky super mega trade deals we'll make, without giving any actual details or plan..."

And the people who say this obviously haven't researched the matter or given any open minded thought to it.

OUT

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *funtimes.Man
over a year ago

Preston

Trump is the art of the deal

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

As people are likely to go with the inertia of 'In' unless they are given a compelling vision, surely the onus is on the 'Out' campaign to provide a vision. Just saying we should look for the details ourselves will not carry it.

I can see the romance of leaving as the grass might be greener, but we could just re-seed the lawn and do as good a job. Rubbish analogy I know, but I'm sure you get the point.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats the worry of it all a . We are told to vote and that its most important to do so . But no one gives us the real non sided facts . Hard to do the right thing I feel . "

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Trade deals mmmm . Who would this really have any inpact on . We ship in more than we send out . And im sure as eggs are eggs im not going to be any richer one way or the other . In or out . Im still going to be getting up in the morning and going to work for 50 odd hours a week .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As people are likely to go with the inertia of 'In' unless they are given a compelling vision, surely the onus is on the 'Out' campaign to provide a vision. Just saying we should look for the details ourselves will not carry it.

I can see the romance of leaving as the grass might be greener, but we could just re-seed the lawn and do as good a job. Rubbish analogy I know, but I'm sure you get the point. "

If people do think that 'in' means inertia then they are in for a shock. But you are probably right in a way and those people won't be arsed to vote, which thankfully will lead to a Brexit

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

That is of course possible, but on a vote as significant as this one it would be good if the decision was clear and unambiguous with enough people voting to ensure the decision has validity.

I have voted in every election since I was old enough too and always will as unless I do then I can't really complain!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That is of course possible, but on a vote as significant as this one it would be good if the decision was clear and unambiguous with enough people voting to ensure the decision has validity.

I have voted in every election since I was old enough too and always will as unless I do then I can't really complain!

Fair play

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do we feel that a vote will change anything for us ? Im sure as hell that nothing Changes after an election so why should it this time . I get the feeling its done to make us feel we have changed something .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do we feel that a vote will change anything for us ? Im sure as hell that nothing Changes after an election so why should it this time . I get the feeling its done to make us feel we have changed something . "

You have a vote. Use it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Well a vote of 'In' leaves us as we are essentially and a vote of 'Out' brings inevitable change. It could be good change, it could be bad change but there will be change pretty quickly even though the exist negotiations might take years.

Uncertainty is never liked by stock markets and currency speculators, so in the short term Sterling is likely to take a hit and interest rates will be raised to limit the flow of currency out of the U.K.

This is a fairly predictable outcome, how long it lasts and the potential for us to bounce back are the unknowns. In the long term we might be better off, but that would be 10 years away...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Not sure yet. TTIP is another major consideration with it, though out would be a fail for that as it's Johnson's, Cameron's and Osborne's wet dream.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Following the vote, if it is a majority out vote, it will take at least 2 years to negotiate the UKs terms with other trading nations, including the EU and our relationship with the continent. It is quite possible that we may still pay in to the EU pot, similarly to Norway and Switzerland, two countries whose EU relationships have been used to show possibilities for the UK. This may come with the same level of legislation implementation as we currently, as that is part of their deals for access to the EU trading markets.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Just one note, as from today, 75 million Turkish citizens have become EU citizens.... even though Turkey has never, and probably will never, reach the required standards for membership, just shows what the EU will do to get their way, don't it?

Where do you think some of them will head now?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it."

I would if I felt I wasn't being lied to by a bunch of over paid money grabbing bleep. Bleep bleep . A complete waste of time . It wont change a bloody thing one way our the other . The rich stay that way whichever way you vote .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?"

Not towards Christmas thats for sure

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Oh, and, just in case my previous post was a little ambiguous lol.... we are both for OUT!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Not sure yet. TTIP is another major consideration with it, though out would be a fail for that as it's Johnson's, Cameron's and Osborne's wet dream. "

They are a wet dream

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?"

Not EU citizens, they just don't need a Visa for the Schengen area countries. They still need a Visa for the UK.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Research independent sources, not from either campaign and take into consideration all aspects of the EU, not just financial or immigration implications.

Don't squander your vote due to misinformation from either campaign.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so."

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?"

Breathtaking Brexit ignorance. Again. Never one's to let research or facts get in the way of your preconceived prejudices.

Not EU citizens, just visa-free travel to Schengen Area. Just the same as citizens of most Central & South American countries.

We are not part of Schengen, so no impact on us.

By the way, for Turkey to become a member of the EU it would require all 28 states - including yours - to agree. So unless your democratically elected government agrees, they won't become members. Ever.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not "

And someone may of given me a reason to vote . But its not happen yet . One guy has got me thinking about it . I do believe that a close Europe has kept us from having another war .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Research independent sources, not from either campaign and take into consideration all aspects of the EU, not just financial or immigration implications.

Don't squander your vote due to misinformation from either campaign. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *htcMan
over a year ago

OUT OUT OUT

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?

Breathtaking Brexit ignorance. Again. Never one's to let research or facts get in the way of your preconceived prejudices.

Not EU citizens, just visa-free travel to Schengen Area. Just the same as citizens of most Central & South American countries.

We are not part of Schengen, so no impact on us.

Yep pure ignorance by the poster who thought Turkey had joined the EU. Where do people get this nonsense from ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Perhaps we should actively engage with Europe and try to make it successful? Having been fortunate to have visited and worked in almost all EU countries, it is clear that our partners value us highly and see us as a good balance with France & Germany. In many ways we have been too passive in our relationship.

I realised in thinking through how I felt about being part of the EU that the In or Out didn't cover fully what we need. If we are In we should do it properly and take a leading position in Europe, if we are Out, then we should do that with as much passion. Being half in or out, as we know on Fab, can be unsatisfactory!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not "

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

we have been in for 30 years and got fuc- all.....so lets try out for 30 yrs

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide."

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"OUT OUT OUT

me mywife both voting out for the sake of my children, if we stay in immigration with increase rapidly as they are about to allow some of the poorest countrys into the eu. which means they have the right to move hear get benefits and housing. "
IN IN IN for the sake of my grandchildren we remember the UK pre EEC and it wasn't a good place ...dont remove the right of the British people to seek a better life in Europe .over 2 million already have and with more countries joining that's more opportunities for the British people .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide."

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"we have been in for 30 years and got fuc- all.....so lets try out for 30 yrs"

Or we have been in for just over 43 years and out for a whole lot longer. When we could dominate the world we did brilliantly, but post WW 1 & 2 we moved into a significantly weaker position that meant we had a dreadful economy. Much of this changed since joining the EU, the world economy has changed massively in the past 70 years with The US and China now dominating when we did.

So our best bet could be to take a leadership role in reforming and running the EU. That way we could see the best of European Social values, with British and German entrepreneurial skills.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"we have been in for 30 years and got fuc- all.....so lets try out for 30 yrs"
Muppet we were out for over 2 thousand years ..so 40 yrs of the eec/ eu isn't long is it ..dont think you have really researched all the benefits the UK has had have you ..?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote . "

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

muppet here .....we all have a vote and mine is out ...is that ok with u ..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to."

Totally agree with you on this, whatever the result it is important that we actually have a high turnout and people make a choice. What bigger decision do we have to make for the next 25 years at least...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now? "

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to."

We all have the right to that . Makes us feel we can change things . And we all have the right not too vote . Im sure most people like the last election and like me wont vote .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?"

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to.

We all have the right to that . Makes us feel we can change things . And we all have the right not too vote . Im sure most people like the last election and like me wont vote . "

Then you are surrendering your right to make a difference. That is your right.

Alternatively, you could think, come to a decision and make a choice.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

"
Im with you on that one

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?

Not EU citizens, they just don't need a Visa for the Schengen area countries. They still need a Visa for the UK.

My apologies, serves me right for speed-reading through it lol!

Turkey has not become a member of the EU.... yet.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

A vote to remain in the EU is not a vote for things to stay the same as they are. There is no status quo option on the ballot paper for this referendum. The EU is constantly changing and not always for the better. Just look at what the EU's five Presidents report says, ever closer political and monetary union until complete political and monetary union is achieved (in other words it is heading towards a federal superstate, The United States of Europe). The EU has plans for an EU army which will undermine Nato and destabilise the world when Russia, China, North Korea, etc see it as a hostile move by the West and will react with great suspicion towards it. Then you have the prospect of Turkey becoming a member (part of the current EU/Turkey deal is fast tracking of Turkeys full membership of the EU). 75 milliom people with the right to come here under the EU's bonkers free movement of people principle. Then the EU will also have a border on Iraq and Syria. Other countries like Macedonia and Albania want to join, as Michael Gove justice secretary pointed out just the other day Albania has a very high crime rate and a good proportion of people currently locked up in British jails are hardcore Albanian criminals. Do we really want to give more of them a free pass into the country when Albania joins the EU?

Then there is the TTIP deal which will lead to the privatisation of the NHS. Don't let all this happen and vote leave on June 23rd.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

Im with you on that one "

Lol - you started the thread! What's your excuse?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"muppet here .....we all have a vote and mine is out ...is that ok with u .."
fine with me .. 2 thousand yrs of out didn't work ...so why will out work this time ...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to.

We all have the right to that . Makes us feel we can change things . And we all have the right not too vote . Im sure most people like the last election and like me wont vote .

Then you are surrendering your right to make a difference. That is your right.

Alternatively, you could think, come to a decision and make a choice."

Thats the point . There isn't a choice. In or out your life ,my life aren't goin to change one bit . We,ll go to work the next day , pay the mortgage . And all the other bills .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions."

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

Im with you on that one

Lol - you started the thread! What's your excuse? "

I cant help myself

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Well I have reconsidered my opinion over the past 2 weeks. I was definately In, not sure and moving towards Out, but looked at the upside (minimal short term - 0-5 years) compared to the downside (potentially severe short term 0-5 years)

I don't want major currency fluctuation, interest rises and investment uncertainty for the next 5 years. I lived through this in the past and kinda don't miss it. Interest rates of 15% would totally bugger most people.

So is the upside milk & honey, no. But the downside could be the total opposite. Is this a negative approach to voting, maybe, but this is not an inconsequential gamble, this is potentially betting the house on Red 8, I'd rather have put it on Leicester!

But for me it is about making a decision, if it goes Out then let's make the most of it and not complain in the short term, if it is stay In, let's make the most of it.

If we don't vote, then don't complain afterwards.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to.

We all have the right to that . Makes us feel we can change things . And we all have the right not too vote . Im sure most people like the last election and like me wont vote .

Then you are surrendering your right to make a difference. That is your right.

Alternatively, you could think, come to a decision and make a choice.

Thats the point . There isn't a choice. In or out your life ,my life aren't goin to change one bit . We,ll go to work the next day , pay the mortgage . And all the other bills . "

If you don't think it will make a difference, why did you start this thread?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury....."

This is it: the Leave campaign will never be satisfied by anything

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"A vote to remain in the EU is not a vote for things to stay the same as they are. There is no status quo option on the ballot paper for this referendum. The EU is constantly changing and not always for the better. Just look at what the EU's five Presidents report says, ever closer political and monetary union until complete political and monetary union is achieved (in other words it is heading towards a federal superstate, The United States of Europe). The EU has plans for an EU army which will undermine Nato and destabilise the world when Russia, China, North Korea, etc see it as a hostile move by the West and will react with great suspicion towards it. Then you have the prospect of Turkey becoming a member (part of the current EU/Turkey deal is fast tracking of Turkeys full membership of the EU). 75 milliom people with the right to come here under the EU's bonkers free movement of people principle. Then the EU will also have a border on Iraq and Syria. Other countries like Macedonia and Albania want to join, as Michael Gove justice secretary pointed out just the other day Albania has a very high crime rate and a good proportion of people currently locked up in British jails are hardcore Albanian criminals. Do we really want to give more of them a free pass into the country when Albania joins the EU?

Then there is the TTIP deal which will lead to the privatisation of the NHS. Don't let all this happen and vote leave on June 23rd. "
why do you wish to stop the free movement of British people within Europe ..? That's what an out vote may achieve ..and dont lie about the NHS that'll be sold of wether its in or out what about costa crime that was Brits hiding abroad its not all one way ..many Brits in Germany and France on benefit tourism ..the system works both ways ....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury....."

That's what they all said about us joining the euro. They all turned out to be wrong.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You have a vote. Use it.

Why ask the question if you do not think the result matters? It seems silly to do so.

Silly . Im just a nosey sort of guy . Silly or not

I have . Im not voting . It wont change anything .

Revaluation . Now theres a thing .

Not nosy enough. Plenty of resources. You will only get opinions. Assess them and decide.

Im not asking to be told what I already know . Im asking to see what others think . If you want to vote. Vote .

I am going to vote. It would be reprehensible not to.

We all have the right to that . Makes us feel we can change things . And we all have the right not too vote . Im sure most people like the last election and like me wont vote .

Then you are surrendering your right to make a difference. That is your right.

Alternatively, you could think, come to a decision and make a choice.

Thats the point . There isn't a choice. In or out your life ,my life aren't goin to change one bit . We,ll go to work the next day , pay the mortgage . And all the other bills .

If you don't think it will make a difference, why did you start this thread? "

Cause like I said . I just wanted to know want others thought . Simple. I did say that awhile back .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

Says it all really. Tragically depressing.

You have so little confidence that any of your children would be able to compete with low wage competition from Europe that you want to put up the barriers and walls to stop competition coming in and make the economy worse for all of us.

Even though, as a country, we have paid GBP 4,500 per year per child for a good education, you don't think your children could compete with someone who doesn't speak native English and had an education in Lithiania or Bulgaria.

And instead of seeing that your children, if they took advantage of the opportunities available to them, would have the opportunity to work and succeed in the biggest employment market in the world, in some of the world's most advanced markets...Germany, France, Italy, Scandinavia, you focus on the impact that cheap unskilled labour would have on their economic prospects.

And by the way, just because I don't like completely fact-less opinionated rubbish, 'the EU' can't allow anyone to join the EU unless all 28 member countries agree. So new members joining is NEVER anything foisted on the UK - it's never 'they'. Your democratically elected government always agrees before a new member joins.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

but yep..... bit like turkeys voting for xmas....

and i don't think saying "oops, my bad" to the future generations if you all vote out and get it horribly wrong helps......

it's all a bit too much "rose tinted specticles" of course we will get everything we want on the way out and give up nothing

thats just not realistic.....

i would have far far more respect for the out side if they would just say, "okay, if we don't get "x" then this is plan b......"

but there is no plan b.....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury....."

Would this be the same Treasury that states that EU red tape costs the UK ecomony about 7% of its GDP?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

So we're all agreed - whatever the vote, we agree to abide by it and support the will of the majority? Even if it is a majority of 1...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Then there is the TTIP deal which will lead to the privatisation of the NHS. Don't let all this happen and vote leave on June 23rd. why do you wish to stop the free movement of British people within Europe ..? That's what an out vote may achieve ..and dont lie about the NHS that'll be sold of wether its in or out what about costa crime that was Brits hiding abroad its not all one way ..many Brits in Germany and France on benefit tourism ..the system works both ways ...."

When the minimum wage here in UK is many times higher than the wages in other EU countries it is a big draw for people to come here. This will only increase if we stay in the EU, the minimum wage just went up again here the other week so again more incentives for more and more people to come here. The EU is not on a level playing field.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"but yep..... bit like turkeys voting for xmas....

and i don't think saying "oops, my bad" to the future generations if you all vote out and get it horribly wrong helps......

it's all a bit too much "rose tinted specticles" of course we will get everything we want on the way out and give up nothing

thats just not realistic.....

i would have far far more respect for the out side if they would just say, "okay, if we don't get "x" then this is plan b......"

but there is no plan b....."

This is pretty much where I ended up in my thought process. No plan b...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *dd269Man
over a year ago

Clee

Want to know facts about EU debate and other issues -

Take a look at the arguments on fullfact.org (supported by Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust, Nuffield Foundation and the Esmee Fairbairn Foundation no less).

What do you think guys?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The EU (eurozone) economy has been in decline for many years. It is now going through a period of stagnation and is projected to continue to decline in future. Unemployment also very high in the poorer EU countries. Just look at Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Ireland, Spain, Romania, Bulgaria the picture does not look good for them.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury....."

....and as a balance to that the "economists for Brexit report" which was done by 8 leading and well respected economists says the uk will be better of financially when we leave the EU.

news.sky.com/story/1686730/uk-better-off-outside-eu-economists-say

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury.....

....and as a balance to that the "economists for Brexit report" which was done by 8 leading and well respected economists says the uk will be better of financially when we leave the EU.

news.sky.com/story/1686730/uk-better-off-outside-eu-economists-say"

see..... this is a classic example of what i am on about... so thank you...

6 different studies, (and i am leaving the treasury report out of this) say that UK GDP would be adversely affected by leaving the EU...... 1 report which you found says the UK is better off outside..... and after you rubbished all the reports... you sided with the one!!!!!!

do you see why people may be just a little sceptical.... to the point of calling you "rose tinted".......

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Want to know facts about EU debate and other issues -

Take a look at the arguments on fullfact.org (supported by Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust, Nuffield Foundation and the Esmee Fairbairn Foundation no less).

What do you think guys?"

Interesting site, thanks for pointing it out

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Just one note, as from today, 75 million Turkish citizens have become EU citizens.... even though Turkey has never, and probably will never, reach the required standards for membership, just shows what the EU will do to get their way, don't it?

Where do you think some of them will head now?"

brecon hopefully

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"The EU (eurozone) economy has been in decline for many years. It is now going through a period of stagnation and is projected to continue to decline in future. Unemployment also very high in the poorer EU countries. Just look at Greece, Italy, Cyprus, Ireland, Spain, Romania, Bulgaria the picture does not look good for them. "

Just to be precise (as I know you have difficulties with numbers) the EU is currently growing and is predicted to continue to grow. It's not 'in decline'

Just look at Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Ireland (5% growth rate predicted for 2016!). The picture looks great for them...and actually for the EU as a whole.

Obviously not in UKIP-onomics, with that fantasy land of twisted half numbers that they use.

But still, in the real world....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where do you think some of them will head now?

brecon hopefully

I guess if they are happy to earn lower wages they could take over the jobs at the Port Talbot foundry, ensuring it stays open producing quality steel.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

projected by whom..?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

Where do you think some of them will head now?

brecon hopefully

I guess if they are happy to earn lower wages they could take over the jobs at the Port Talbot foundry, ensuring it stays open producing quality steel.

i don't think they're that hard up for a job to be fair..... their skills would be better employed doing the country a service by shaving the comedy facial hair off those who mistakenly believe they have a fabulous moustache

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I am a little tired of the "give me the facts" posts. Really, there are none. There are opinions.

okay then... the "opinion" the 6 major studies that they have done on the subject all suggest that brexit would be detremental to the UK economy....

and thats not including the treasury report, which i expect you to all rubbish because, well, its the treasury.....

....and as a balance to that the "economists for Brexit report" which was done by 8 leading and well respected economists says the uk will be better of financially when we leave the EU.

news.sky.com/story/1686730/uk-better-off-outside-eu-economists-say

see..... this is a classic example of what i am on about... so thank you...

do you see why people may be just a little sceptical.... to the point of calling you "rose tinted"......."

And as I pointed out to you earlier in the thread all the ones you are relying on to be right were totally wrong about the euro. Some of them were also wrong on the ERM and the gold standard too. They don't have a very good track record do they.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them. "

Do you think Vote Leave should ask Centaur to join it's leadership team It would be fun seeing him up there with Dominic Cummings - two peas in a pod.

Remain landslide?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Just to be precise (as I know you have difficulties with numbers) the EU is currently growing and is predicted to continue to grow. It's not 'in decline'

Just look at Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Ireland (5% growth rate predicted for 2016!). The picture looks great for them...and actually for the EU as a whole.

Obviously not in UKIP-onomics, with that fantasy land of twisted half numbers that they use.

But still, in the real world...."

I take it you missed tonight's episode of Newsnight on bbc 2 that finished just now then. They did a very good section on the EU and France. All is not well in France, unemployment is rising and french workers are losing their jobs and seeing factories close down there and moving business to cut costs to cheaper eastern European countries. This is being reflected in the french elections and polls with the rise of Front National in France.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

Centaur strategy #2. Ad hominen attacks. Lets completely ignore WHAT any pro-EU people say, lets just attack them personally with anything they might ever have said or done in the past in the hope no-one notices I didn't actually engage in the point. "But they wrongly predicted the result of the 3:15 at Ascot last week, so they clearly have no credibility"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them.

Do you think Vote Leave should ask Centaur to join it's leadership team It would be fun seeing him up there with Dominic Cummings - two peas in a pod.

Remain landslide?"

Not only did you miss Newsnight tonight about France it seems you also missed the ICM poll on Sunday which put leave ahead on 46% and remain behind on 43%.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

FT's Poll of Polls says In is well ahead, but we have recent experience of how crap pollsters are, so the only one that matters is the vote...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im out

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Kittie4u strategy #2. Ad hominen attacks. Lets completely ignore WHAT any anti-EU people say, lets just attack them personally with anything they might ever have said or done in the past in the hope no-one notices I didn't actually engage in the point. "But they wrongly predicted the result of the Grand national last month, so they clearly have no credibility"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

LOL.

But you forget. Good Fabsters have a long history of both our post history to go through to find out the truth.

Game set and match to me!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them. "

Out

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

LOL.

But you forget. Good Fabsters have a long history of both our post history to go through to find out the truth.

Game set and match to me!"

Your history of ad hominen attacks is very clear to see on just about every EU thread you've ever posted on.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them.

Out

I made my mind up years ago when it became crystal clear that the EU is inevitably heading towards a united states of Europe. A full on federal superstate with very little accountability for those who hold all the power in the EU. A blatant disregard for the democracy of individual nation states. Greece was a very big warning to everyone in Europe about how the EU treats individual countries. The eurozone is a ticking timebomb. Then the disaster that is the migrant crisis. It seems some people have still not learned the lessons. "
IN the federal states of Europe is the way forward with the UK taking a major role within it instead of continually sitting on the sidelines winging about the democratic decisions taken within . the federal states of Europe could become the next major super power ..lets all be a part of it ....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

This is pretty much where we have got to, lets grab hold of Europe and make it what we want it to be! Rallying cry! Woop! Woop!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

[Removed by poster at 03/05/16 23:57:50]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"In.

I was undecided until very recently but Centaur polarised the issues for me and have some clarity.

We can not know what will happen in the future either way, but we can look at the facts as they stand and use them to draw conclusions.

The inability of the Brexit camp to simply be honest about the facts is currently preventing me from being able to align myself with them.

Out

I made my mind up years ago when it became crystal clear that the EU is inevitably heading towards a united states of Europe. A full on federal superstate with very little accountability for those who hold all the power in the EU. A blatant disregard for the democracy of individual nation states. Greece was a very big warning to everyone in Europe about how the EU treats individual countries. The eurozone is a ticking timebomb. Then the disaster that is the migrant crisis. It seems some people have still not learned the lessons. IN the federal states of Europe is the way forward with the UK taking a major role within it instead of continually sitting on the sidelines winging about the democratic decisions taken within . the federal states of Europe could become the next major super power ..lets all be a part of it ....

We don't want to be part of it though. We are committed to keeping the pound sterling so we do not as a country want closer monetary union with the euro. As the euro countries integrate more and more in the eurozone we will inevitably be left out on the sidelines and the very little influence we do have in the EU will diminish more and more as time goes by, so it's better for us to leave a re engage with the rest of the world outside as a free and independent sovereign country.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work."

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work."

Indeed. With everything in life and more.... No commitment = No result.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work."

You want to ditch the pound and adopt the euro then????

It's just not going to happen all the main political parties here don't want it, and public opinion is against it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thats the worry of it all a . We are told to vote and that its most important to do so . But no one gives us the real non sided facts . Hard to do the right thing I feel .

Find them out for yourself then, why expect to be spoonfed information? There's tonnes of resources online. "

Exactly this. MSM in Scotland is on its knees and alternative news sources have moved in. People are seeking for themselves from multiple sources not just the Beeb, murdochs empires etc

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work.

You want to ditch the pound and adopt the euro then????

It's just not going to happen all the main political parties here don't want it, and public opinion is against it. "

Emotionally the £ matters, but really? I like keeping it, but i also like using the € throughout the rest of Europe. If we got engaged in Europe and drove changes then i wouldnt really care.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only thing we hear from the 'in' campaigners is about money, sad state of affairs if that's what we base our votes on.

The fact is we have billions of pounds net spend on the eu every year and apparently we're better off for it. Doesn't make sense, but I suppose Cameron and his chums wouldn't lie to us would he

would anyone like to buy a £50 note from us for £100 but you'll be better off for it.... honestly lol

Don't give me all the trade nonsense either, we buy more from them than they buy from us. Not trading with us in the event of a brexit will cost THEM more jobs than us.

It's an out from us anyway, just going with my heart.

when then living wage comes in aswell we'll get even more low skilled workers which we don't need, by 2020 it will be 5 times the average wage of that in countries such as Romania etc.

I say let's get the highly skilled migrants in like Australia do and force big companies to pay better wages for the low skilled youth in this country who are struggling with everyday bills and rents etc.

Less people means they'll be fighting for workers and not just going for the cheapest option.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *adyboy-DaddyCouple
over a year ago

Andover

How is the trade issue "nonsense"?

It's pivotal to the question of leave it stay.

And it's not how big a percentage of our imports we get from the EU that will decide how strong a hand we have, it's how big a percentage of EU export that is.

It's like saying you spend 60% of you shopping bil at Tesco so as 60% is a lot Tesco should give you a special deal compared to everyone else.

Now if you bought 60% of scrutiny they sold you be in a good position to negotiate.

But your really important 60% figure is fuck all compared to their sales so they won't give you a deal or everyone else will want one.

So, anyone know what percentage of total EU imports we make up? Cos that's how strong our hand will be when it comes to negotiation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well the government keep telling us it best for us to stay in but we'll do you trust them I would have to say no I think we should leave take control of our borders again they say we would lose money in export what export the debt we need to pay back yes I know that but look what we pay in to the e.u each year what do we get back

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OUT; I have always taken risks in life and these calculated risks have provided well for me.

Remember it is also an Unknown risk to remain IN, and no one knows what schemes & plans Brussels has ahead for us, nor do we know how many Turks and others within Turkey are planning to head to UK - visa-free travel for Turkish citizens, being outwith the Schengen area wont stop them.

still OUT

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"The only thing we hear from the 'in' campaigners is about money, sad state of affairs if that's what we base our votes on.

The fact is we have billions of pounds net spend on the eu every year and apparently we're better off for it. Doesn't make sense, but I suppose Cameron and his chums wouldn't lie to us would he

would anyone like to buy a £50 note from us for £100 but you'll be better off for it.... honestly lol

Don't give me all the trade nonsense either, we buy more from them than they buy from us. Not trading with us in the event of a brexit will cost THEM more jobs than us.

It's an out from us anyway, just going with my heart.

when then living wage comes in aswell we'll get even more low skilled workers which we don't need, by 2020 it will be 5 times the average wage of that in countries such as Romania etc.

Less people means they'll be fighting for workers and not just going for the cheapest option.

Just for clarity, this is not a party political issue. Corbyn & Cameron want to stay In as do most Unions, so you don't need to use tired old cliches on this one.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Just for clarity, this is not a party political issue. Corbyn & Cameron want to stay In as do most Unions, so you don't need to use tired old cliches on this one."

this..... and then after the local elections on thursday they are going to be joined in the "in" campaign by Plaid in wales...the DUP and UUP and SDLP in Northern ireland

and the SNP in Scotland (which i know is going to be heartbreaking for one very very loud brexiter on here)

also very interesting piece in the guardian today.... and i know people will rubbish it without even reading it...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/04/brexit-britons-abroad-rights-european-union-referendum

look at the source... and in implications... especially in regards to pension arrangements and healthcare provisions... because if people, especially the elderly who have taken advantage of the "free movement" thing people here scoffed at..... started coming back, again, plan b's anyone?????

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"OUT; I have always taken risks in life and these calculated risks have provided well for me.

still OUT"

dear hand in hand........

a question, and then a question for you....

1) how will turkish people get here without a visa, if they are still going to need a visa... last time i checked schengen stopped at the english channel and the north sea

2) since you are the loudest brexiter here... and the SNP's policy is to stay in.... if the majority of people in scotland vote to stay in, and england vote out.... would that mean another referendum on independence?

if so.... i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU? would he move south????

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

Brexit ..... Exit ..... Egress ...... r-Egress

just a little word game to toss into the mix

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

More important than IN or OUT;

Is who do you want to be Prime Minister later this year?

Cameron will be gone after the Referendum, whatever the result;

It's a while until the next general election, so whoever replaces Cameron will be PM.

If it's an out vote; it will be Boris

If it's an In vote with only about 10% difference between in and out; it will be Boris.

Only if there is a landslide in vote, will Boris not be PM.

Don't lose sight of the fact that Boris is actually an " In" person; he has just joined the Out camp because he knows that's the easiest way to ensure he becomes Tory Leader.

So there's the real Project Fear...

It's Boris, or Boris, or a slight chance that it might not be Boris.

And since the Labour Party is currently imploding faster than the Tories, they will have to do some fancy footwork to stand a chance at the next election....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Personally I see no current benefit in staying in the E.U., as it is now, never mind what it will develop into. I wonder how many are aware of what the E.U. stands for and it's aims, as they have been all along since the 1920s, which is one state of Europe with the same tax rules for each country, one armed forces, one central bank and rules and regulation by an unelected council. Why would you wish to be part of that?

We will have more influence out of the E.U. as far as trade goes because we can negotiate with the various bodies that dictate the standards of our goods and services. Currently the E.U. does that for us (and has to comply with those regulations)but we only have a small say in them as we are a small part of the E.U.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The one thing you can be sure of, is a vote to stay will be taken as a green light for the EU powers-that-be to push us even more towards integration etc.

Where do you think some of them will head now?"

The Turks have not been given EU citizenship. They have been given the right to visa free travel for up to 3 months within the Schengen Area. That does not include the UK but does include Switzerland and Norway (which are not actual in the EU).

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

I think you're partly right but most elections are not decided by the 70%+ who have already made their minds up but by the 30%- who are undecided. This referendum will be close so it worth while putting forward argument and counter argument, not to persuade those you're arguing with (that seldom works) but to persuade the few who are still undecided.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Or, alternatively, you could, and mate economist do, argue that increasing minimum wage towards a more realistic living wage makes it far more likely that British citizens can afford to take those jobs and, if they do, reduce the pull for migrant workers and actually lead to an overall reduction in immigration.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I'm bored of this whole pointless convo already.

Can we just vote now?

What is pointless about listening to people and having a point of view?

Because everyone has made up their minds already.

Is one person gonna say, "Hmmm... On reflection I think I might be wrong and will reconsider my opinion."?

The outcome is certain. It's tedious and distracts from more serious business is my point of view.

I think it will turn out like the Scottish referendum - not as close as we think.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec"

Or you could go back to the Congress of Aix La Chapelle in 1818! The EU did not start till 1993, it was the EEC before but the Eurpoean Coal and Steel Community started in 1951.

We need to embrace the EU & not run away from it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec

Or you could go back to the Congress of Aix La Chapelle in 1818! The EU did not start till 1993, it was the EEC before but the Eurpoean Coal and Steel Community started in 1951.

We need to embrace the EU & not run away from it. "

Why are the youth of Europe running away from it?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"More important than IN or OUT;

Is who do you want to be Prime Minister later this year?

Cameron will be gone after the Referendum, whatever the result;

It's a while until the next general election, so whoever replaces Cameron will be PM.

If it's an out vote; it will be Boris

If it's an In vote with only about 10% difference between in and out; it will be Boris.

Only if there is a landslide in vote, will Boris not be PM.

Don't lose sight of the fact that Boris is actually an " In" person; he has just joined the Out camp because he knows that's the easiest way to ensure he becomes Tory Leader.

So there's the real Project Fear...

It's Boris, or Boris, or a slight chance that it might not be Boris.

And since the Labour Party is currently imploding faster than the Tories, they will have to do some fancy footwork to stand a chance at the next election...."

This is what annoys me. This referendum has nothing to do with the next government or the one after that, it's to do with the next 50 years or more. The future of Europe for our children and grandchildren

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"More important than IN or OUT;

Is who do you want to be Prime Minister later this year?

Cameron will be gone after the Referendum, whatever the result;

It's a while until the next general election, so whoever replaces Cameron will be PM.

If it's an out vote; it will be Boris

If it's an In vote with only about 10% difference between in and out; it will be Boris.

Only if there is a landslide in vote, will Boris not be PM.

Don't lose sight of the fact that Boris is actually an " In" person; he has just joined the Out camp because he knows that's the easiest way to ensure he becomes Tory Leader.

So there's the real Project Fear...

It's Boris, or Boris, or a slight chance that it might not be Boris.

And since the Labour Party is currently imploding faster than the Tories, they will have to do some fancy footwork to stand a chance at the next election....

"
it has more to do with this government and the deals they start to negotiate after a possible brexit .. The time to leave isn't now !!!!!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's just get the f*** out!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Definitely Out, why send 100's of millions of pounds to Brussels to support the rest of Europe when it could be spent on the UK economy nhs and farming,because of European legislation we have lost most of our trade,vote to get out, should have done it years ago, and as for trading overseas we won't lose out as they know our standards are one of the highest in the world, but everyone has an opinion it just needs to be the right one

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *dd269Man
over a year ago

Clee

If the UK masses vote "Out", then Scotland will breakaway to join EU, not sure what Wales & N.Ireland will do then. But...

Bring on the English Caliphate! - that will be our destiny for the next century

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the UK masses vote "Out", then Scotland will breakaway to join EU, not sure what Wales & N.Ireland will do then. But...

Bring on the English Caliphate! - that will be our destiny for the next century"
of course Scotland will join EU as they are also still being subsidised with British taxpayers money, see how long they last or not when money comes from there to subsidise others instead.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OUT OUT OUT....Before the whole corrupt project implodes.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work.

You want to ditch the pound and adopt the euro then????

It's just not going to happen all the main political parties here don't want it, and public opinion is against it.

Emotionally the £ matters, but really? I like keeping it, but i also like using the € throughout the rest of Europe. If we got engaged in Europe and drove changes then i wouldnt really care."

You really should care, because if we had joined the euro before like the IMF, the CBI and all the others who keep telling us to stay in the EU told us to, when the global crash happened in 2008 (which the IMF failed to predict) we could have ended up like Greece if we'd had the euro. An economic basket case which is still in crisis and bullied into submission by fat cat eurocrats in Brussels.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm Scottish and I want out of the EU but NOT out of Britain. It's a lose-lose for me!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"If the UK masses vote "Out", then Scotland will breakaway to join EU, not sure what Wales & N.Ireland will do then. But...

Bring on the English Caliphate! - that will be our destiny for the next century"

The SNP wants independence for Scotland, but if Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU they won't be an independent country. They will be governed and lorded over by Brussels just like we are now.

Scotland on its own may have significant difficulty joining the EU, Spain has made it crystal clear during the Scottish referendum campaign they would veto and block any attempts by Scotland to join the EU. The reason why Spain is taking this stance is because of the Catelonia issue over there and they fear it would be a green light for an independence referendum for Catelonia in Spain. They will use every measure at their disposal to discourage that from happening.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec"
.

I'd actually vote for it if it was one European country, one tax policy, one army, one central bank.

Ein volk ein euro ein Reich actually doesn't bother me in the slightest... It's the hot potch of mishmashing that I don't think will work...

Let me put it another way, imagine if Scotland had different tax policies or currencies... Worse still imagine if Yorkshire ran different rules, tax policies and currency than say Kent or Sussex..

It would be plain fucking craziness, that is in fact what the EU does, it would be the equivalent of setting people of Yorkshire against people of Sussex?.

I want one country, one tax policy, one currency, I'm not bothered what it's called or where the borders are...I want it Because it's the easiest way to set a level playing field, so that we don't all battle one another through unfairness of rules!.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec.

I'd actually vote for it if it was one European country, one tax policy, one army, one central bank.

Ein volk ein euro ein Reich actually doesn't bother me in the slightest... It's the hot potch of mishmashing that I don't think will work...

Let me put it another way, imagine if Scotland had different tax policies or currencies... Worse still imagine if Yorkshire ran different rules, tax policies and currency than say Kent or Sussex..

It would be plain fucking craziness, that is in fact what the EU does, it would be the equivalent of setting people of Yorkshire against people of Sussex?.

One currency is not a level playing field though is it?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec.

I'd actually vote for it if it was one European country, one tax policy, one army, one central bank.

Ein volk ein euro ein Reich actually doesn't bother me in the slightest... It's the hot potch of mishmashing that I don't think will work...

Let me put it another way, imagine if Scotland had different tax policies or currencies... Worse still imagine if Yorkshire ran different rules, tax policies and currency than say Kent or Sussex..

It would be plain fucking craziness, that is in fact what the EU does, it would be the equivalent of setting people of Yorkshire against people of Sussex?.

One currency is not a level playing field though is it? "

It is if all other things are equal. It would level the playing field though and the countries on top at the moment would never allow it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Or we could embrace Europe and lead it the way that works for us? Half way in, or half way out won't work.

You want to ditch the pound and adopt the euro then????

It's just not going to happen all the main political parties here don't want it, and public opinion is against it.

Emotionally the £ matters, but really? I like keeping it, but i also like using the € throughout the rest of Europe. If we got engaged in Europe and drove changes then i wouldnt really care.

It comes down to whether or not we embrace Europe or continue to sulk at the edges. Of course everything isn't right about the EU, but even if we don't want to be part of it, it will still start across the Straits of Dover for the next million years. EU policy on car safety, mobile phone roaming costs, financial transaction tax, etc will continue to have an influence on us, but the difference will be we just have to accept it rather than change the policy to something more acceptable to the UK.

I am clearly IN and have satisfied myself that this is the best solution for me. My children also are voting that way and find it almost incomprehensible that anyone would think otherwise - youth eh, I at least have looked at the arguments and have concluded IN and then embracing the EU is the way to go.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec

Or you could go back to the Congress of Aix La Chapelle in 1818! The EU did not start till 1993, it was the EEC before but the Eurpoean Coal and Steel Community started in 1951.

We need to embrace the EU & not run away from it.

Why are the youth of Europe running away from it?"

1. Where are they going?

2. Source?

3. All of them?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hello Fabio,

"i find it a tiny bit ironic him living in an independent scotland part of the EU?"

In that case Scotland will not be independent at all, it's quite the opposite.

Wake up people, this is a chance to get out of this disaster.

Alec

Or you could go back to the Congress of Aix La Chapelle in 1818! The EU did not start till 1993, it was the EEC before but the Eurpoean Coal and Steel Community started in 1951.

We need to embrace the EU & not run away from it.

Why are the youth of Europe running away from it?

1. Where are they going?

2. Source?

3. All of them?"

They are flocking to support anti-EU political parties which are on the rise all over Europe, as a direct result of EU policies, rules, Red tape, regulations, immigration and meddling and over interference in nation states affairs. There is very deep frustration and dissatisfaction with the EU all over Europe. The Source is from the polls and elections all over Europe.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Bloodyhell . What have I started

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?"

No but a quarter of a million from Europe had to come here last year leaving their homes, friends and families looking for work because of the inept EU and the state of the eurozone. And I'm not just talking about eastern Europeans but Italians, French and Spanish too. And do you really think they want to be here? Doing the jobs that we supposedly won't do? Of course not. When living expenses are taken out of their wages what do you think is left unless they are living in shit holes. They are just grateful to be working and the EU has failed them on that. I want out for this country but for the sake of theirs too so that the EU has no choice but to change/reform

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

projected by whom..?"

Centaur, projected by whom..?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

projected by whom..?

Centaur, projected by whom..?"

Juncker for a start

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

projected by whom..?

Centaur, projected by whom..?

Juncker for a start

didn't know he had a spin doctor or needed one..

source..?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the UK masses vote "Out", then Scotland will breakaway to join EU, not sure what Wales & N.Ireland will do then. But...

Bring on the English Caliphate! - that will be our destiny for the next centuryof course Scotland will join EU as they are also still being subsidised with British taxpayers money, see how long they last or not when money comes from there to subsidise others instead."

sounds like someone has a touch of the green monster

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

projected by whom..?

Centaur, projected by whom..?

Juncker for a start

didn't know he had a spin doctor or needed one..

source..?"

Thought I'd just chip in

Source? Google it

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way..."

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way..."

Didn't say they were refugees

Oh that's ok then

But were they happy abroad?

Or maybe something is wrong with the way the EU is being run now eh and the failed political experiment that is the eurozone?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

Knew what you meant

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"So they aren't actually leaving the EU then?

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

Knew what you meant

Just as well, i didn't!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them...."

According to the UN it's 1.3 million UK citizens in the EU and 3 million EU citizens in the UK. Ex pats already abroad are unlikely to be affected by Brexit, likewise other EU nationals living here. As you say, a lot are retired and therefore self sufficient so help the economy of the country they choose to live in, the NHS also pays out a lot more to other EU countries compared to what it receives, which is surprising given the difference in numbers, so who stands to lose out if changes are made? For people who have yet to move there will be restrictions or conditions for sure, likewise for the people who want to live in the UK which is a good thing. I will be retiring to Spain in a few years and have no worries about it at all

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

"
and the EUOBSERVER puts it at 2million Brits in the EU and 2.3,million EU citizens in the uk so figures vary widely depending wether whether you wish high figures to support brexit or even figures if you support staying in .I feel sorry for the young dreaming of a better life in Europe and could be denied it because of a brexit vote ....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

and the EUOBSERVER puts it at 2million Brits in the EU and 2.3,million EU citizens in the uk so figures vary widely depending wether whether you wish high figures to support brexit or even figures if you support staying in .I feel sorry for the young dreaming of a better life in Europe and could be denied it because of a brexit vote ...."

Why is it a better life in Europe? And why would they be denied it?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

By the way, being out of the EU doesn't seem to put off the 2nd biggest foreign buyer of property in Spain after the UK does it? Russia

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"By the way, being out of the EU doesn't seem to put off the 2nd biggest foreign buyer of property in Spain after the UK does it? Russia"

and then the Chineese!!!!!!!!!!!

okay... to save yourself, from yourself, i'll ask you if you really.....really... really.... want to go down this particular avenue, because you are not going to much like the answer!!!

so....................... really???

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

[Removed by poster at 04/05/16 23:02:07]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. .....

'nuff said

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone. "

Eh, no one on the Brexit side is saying all immigration into Britain should cease to exist in the event of us leaving the EU. The arguments being made are that we should leave EU to take back control over immigration so we can have a sensible level (as opposed to the uncontrolled chaos we currently have now). The key word is control, it's why the vote leave Logo has the...... "#lets take back control" on it.

Take back control of our borders, take back control of immigration, take back control of our laws and take back control of the money we pay to the EU.

People from Britain lived and worked in the EU before we joined, they will be able to do so after we leave. Non EU citizens from all over the world currently go to live and work in the EU, where is this mystery barrier you say is stopping them?

After we leave the EU a sensible level of immigration into Britain will need to continue which we can have full control over as an independent and sovereign country.

While we are in the EU with the free movement of people rule we don't have control that is the point.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone.

Take back control of our borders, take back control of immigration, take back control of our laws and take back control of the money we pay to the EU.

After we leave the EU a sensible level of immigration into Britain will need to continue which we can have full control over as an independent and sovereign country.

While we are in the EU with the free movement of people rule we don't have control that is the point. "
you just dont understand do u ..if you control who comes into the UK from the EU then the EU will control who from the UK can enter the EU ..its called reciprocal agreement...it wont just be one way as the lying misinforming brexit campaigners would have you believe ...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"By the way, being out of the EU doesn't seem to put off the 2nd biggest foreign buyer of property in Spain after the UK does it? Russia"
you sure that's true the archipelago we live has not one Russian but lots of Italians but maybe because they are in the EU you didn't include them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oh and the Italians purchased the most property here so far this yr

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

Why is it a better life in Europe? And why would they be denied it?"

That's an odd question: "Why is it a better life in Europe?"

Are you retiring to Spain for a worse life?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

Why is it a better life in Europe? And why would they be denied it?

That's an odd question: "Why is it a better life in Europe?"

Are you retiring to Spain for a worse life?"
no all uk immigrants are retiring here .. many live hand to mouth here with the wages they earn and its still for them a better life than living in the UK ....

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone.

Take back control of our borders, take back control of immigration, take back control of our laws and take back control of the money we pay to the EU.

After we leave the EU a sensible level of immigration into Britain will need to continue which we can have full control over as an independent and sovereign country.

While we are in the EU with the free movement of people rule we don't have control that is the point. you just dont understand do u ..if you control who comes into the UK from the EU then the EU will control who from the UK can enter the EU ..its called reciprocal agreement...it wont just be one way as the lying misinforming brexit campaigners would have you believe ... "

They also seem to feel entitled to take away our rights to freedom of movement as UK citizens in the EU, swapping it for the right to apply for work permits. Thanks but no thanks for additional petty minded bureaucracy.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *horehouseCouple
over a year ago

dissatisfied

"Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone.

Take back control of our borders, take back control of immigration, take back control of our laws and take back control of the money we pay to the EU.

After we leave the EU a sensible level of immigration into Britain will need to continue which we can have full control over as an independent and sovereign country.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd anticipate a bit of Brexit confusion on the freedom of movement issue, given that one of their key front men has said:

'My view on immigration is I'm basically pro it.'

'I'm the great-grandson of Turkish immigrants – where would my family be if London hadn't given sanctuary to [my great-grandfather]? So I'm totally in favour of people being able to make their lives in another country.'

That would be: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, aka BoJo

Read all about it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3264239/Let-long-term-illegals-stay-UK-says-Boris-London-mayor-believes-immigrants-12-years-granted-amnesty.html#ixzz47jZNaG8U

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Perhaps because if we introduce border controls and visas to stop people living here the EU will do the same. & if we don't do that, then one of the big BREXIT arguments has gone.

Take back control of our borders, take back control of immigration, take back control of our laws and take back control of the money we pay to the EU.

After we leave the EU a sensible level of immigration into Britain will need to continue which we can have full control over as an independent and sovereign country.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

This is worth a watch.

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuofficial/videos/946139178817657/

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is clearly hard to say that the 250,000 people are refugees. Many are happily here. You may recall the boys from the black stuff - the traffic used to be the other way...

Or even 'auf weidersehen pet'

and thats not even talking about the approximately 2 million UK citizens who have taken advantage of the right to free movement to be living and working in the EU right now......

and on top of that, plus the countless hundreds of thousands of ex-pats who havbe taken advantage of the right to free movement and have retired to spain, greece, italy, portugal, cyprus ect.......

you like to think because of the brexiter's it is all one way, but there are a shed load of people this will affect other than them....

Why is it a better life in Europe? And why would they be denied it?

That's an odd question: "Why is it a better life in Europe?"

Are you retiring to Spain for a worse life?"

Yes, why is it a better life in Europe? Are you saying that a lot of Europeans are having to come to the UK for a worse life? Sounds like you're on my side. I lived and worked in Spain for years and life anywhere is what you make it, but it was my choice, not because I needed work there. I will be moving back there for the chance to sit outside more often, thats about it really. And it is easy to check who buys the most property in Spain and I'm talking about where people want to buy, not the shitty dust bowl you inhabit

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately