FabSwingers.com forum: Three more anti Semites suspended from labour.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

Because the Muslim population feels most associated to Labour and some Muslim leaders make no secret of their anti semiticism. A bit embarrassing when there are are such people in the Labour network of Councillors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

How are Muslims to blame for people like Ken? You sure you're not just Islamophobic?

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By *omersetfabbersCouple
over a year ago

Glastonbury

You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

So that is about a dozen labour party members out of several hundred thousand? Not a terrible statistic.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's a non story being whipped up by the tories and media.

Any hate speech, racism etc is abhorrent but I've wasted too much time on this already.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?"
there is a difference between anti Semitic and anti Israel

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By *arksMan
over a year ago

in the centre

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?"

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shall I jump in now with Bob Marley....

Errr maybe not

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"Shall I jump in now with Bob Marley....

Errr maybe not

Not two little birds again?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

I think with the above and with Kezia Dugdale trying to run Scottish Labour, the 5th May will be the end of labour in Scotland, will they close the door on the way out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shall I jump in now with Bob Marley....

Errr maybe not

Not two little birds again?

"
.

Two little birds?... Nah I'm having enough trouble with the one!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

"
.

Ok I'll get serious... Ahem,

What was the nature of these remarks and how long have the three been in the labour party?.

Is there any other detail

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?"

Apparently these days you can't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems "
.

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems .

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad"

Guardian listed it as twelves suspensions yesterday so using my A level maths I make it now 15.

Not counting the Oxford Univeristy Labour Party stuff

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?"

Yes I know that , but not one of the people suspended has mentioned Zionism, it's all about the Jewish people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

It's obvious really. Because labour is currently an extreme left party and extreme parties attract extreme people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems .

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad

Guardian listed it as twelves suspensions yesterday so using my A level maths I make it now 15.

Not counting the Oxford Univeristy Labour Party stuff "
.

Hark at you with your a levels

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems .

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad

Guardian listed it as twelves suspensions yesterday so using my A level maths I make it now 15.

Not counting the Oxford Univeristy Labour Party stuff "

Yeah the right wing guardian whipping up a storm in a tea cup.

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?"

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems .

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad

Guardian listed it as twelves suspensions yesterday so using my A level maths I make it now 15.

Not counting the Oxford Univeristy Labour Party stuff .

Hark at you with your a levels

I know get met

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

It's obvious really. Because labour is currently an extreme left party and extreme parties attract extreme people. "
.

??? Maybe they've been infiltrated by Isis

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't read about it in the Guardian. Anyway, I thinks it's ignorant to dismiss it just because one newspaper reported it. So did pretty much every major paper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So that's 15 different incidents from different age groups,different positions and different parts of the Country.

It's more than isolated it seems .

15?

I thought there'd rounded up the usual suspects of Ken, Len and Muhammad

Guardian listed it as twelves suspensions yesterday so using my A level maths I make it now 15.

Not counting the Oxford Univeristy Labour Party stuff .

Hark at you with your a levels

I know get met

"
.

Are you sure you didn't use fingers and toes like the rest of us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

Socialists have a long history of antisemitism.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Undoubtably some comments blown out proportion but when you get people tweeting about big noses and gas chambers it takes a more sinister slant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar"

Do you honestly belive that?

Cause the evidence says otherwise.

Recent anexation of the crimea for example.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

So that is about a dozen labour party members out of several hundred thousand? Not a terrible statistic."

I think it's quite bad, elected officials with such bigoted views all belonging to the same party.

And I find that it's surprising the Labour Party , supposedly the caring party, that have many racists amongst their ranks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

Sure, if by criticising them you mean apologising for the regime that killed 1/3rd of their population.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

One of the more recent suspensions was cos they called Zionist Jews a disgrace to humanity. That's different to saying Israelis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

When you start using phrases like "the jews are...."

Youre kinda fucked.

Same is you say "the blacks are...."

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

Oh i get it so anyone who has a negative opinion of Israel and its land grabbing, Palestinian oppressing, bullying politics is antisemetic. Glad thats been cleared up for me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."
.

Actually there's quite a few xxxxx Israelis.... Some other Israelis who aren't xxxxxx treat those ones that aren't xxxxx fuxxxxx awful like

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

So that is about a dozen labour party members out of several hundred thousand? Not a terrible statistic.

I think it's quite bad, elected officials with such bigoted views all belonging to the same party.

And I find that it's surprising the Labour Party , supposedly the caring party, that have many racists amongst their ranks. "

Why would anyone want a racist person representing them? It'd be best if Labour just flushed them out as opposed to pretending it's not an issue.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

To clarify, not all Jews are Israeli

I'm pretty certain that there are other religions that are Israeli too

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Two of the suspensions today were because the councillors compared Israel to nazi Germany's.

The UN have long declared that holocaust inversion is to be viewed as anti Semitic.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something.

When you start using phrases like "the jews are...."

Youre kinda fucked.

Same is you say "the blacks are....""

True. They should have made their criticism more specific.

Wonder why Trumps obvious anti Semitism wasn't picked up by the press when he came up with it.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Undoubtably some comments blown out proportion but when you get people tweeting about big noses and gas chambers it takes a more sinister slant. "

And has that actually happened? I can't see any career politician doing something like that... Not even BNP types....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

For incidents of Islamophobia, we really don't need to dig that deep. Zac Goldsmith's article in the Standard yesterday reeked of it. Where is the outcry on here, I wonder- or is that not just as serious?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Undoubtably some comments blown out proportion but when you get people tweeting about big noses and gas chambers it takes a more sinister slant.

And has that actually happened? I can't see any career politician doing something like that... Not even BNP types...."

Vicki Kirby

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Undoubtably some comments blown out proportion but when you get people tweeting about big noses and gas chambers it takes a more sinister slant.

And has that actually happened? I can't see any career politician doing something like that... Not even BNP types...."

Vicki Kirby had historic racist tweets.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something.

To clarify, not all Jews are Israeli

I'm pretty certain that there are other religions that are Israeli too"
.

I used xxxx so as not to offend but yeah there's cxxxxxxs and mxxxxxs there too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

This says it all for me

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but from what i've read and seen in the news the comments were anti-Israel and its politics not anti-jewish yet those who made them are anti-semitic??

Maybe i'm just ignorant but i am confused

Israelis are Jews, so apparently criticising them is akin to the Holocaust. Or something."

Not one of the suspensions is because the person criticised Israel or its actions.

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

At a risk of being shot down in flames by all and sundry, I think that the real problem is not disagreeing with Israeli policy (which would be exercising free speech) but where the members of any political grouping share platforms with groups who preach anti semitic views.

Using another analogy, I am sure that massive offence would be taken by all if a KKK leader would come to Britain to share a platform with the Archbishop of Canterbury to espouse the strengths of Christianity.

That said of course we should all recognise that, this has been stirred up to destabilise Corbyn's leadership.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government"

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election. "

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic. "

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?"

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races."

If I have a problem with them just because they're Jewish, I'd probably be antisemitic. anyway, I'm not one of those members of the public okay with insulting other races so I'll carry on holding Labour politicians to my own standards.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Strange how the definition of " Semites" has been hijacked; since Jews, Palestinians , Lebanese, some Syrians, and many Jordanese are also Semites...

It is also possible to dissaprove of Israel's behaviour as a country, without disliking Jews; my closest freind ( who I have known since we were 5 ) is Jewish, and whilst he is "very" Jewish, he dislikes Israel's behaviour as a country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races."

Just had the leader of sin fain (however its spelled"appologieing on nation tv for racism.

So harsdy a true point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?"
.

I like Zach goldsmith but I disaprove of his message!.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic. "
yes they are .. And abhorrent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Strange how the definition of " Semites" has been hijacked; since Jews, Palestinians , Lebanese, some Syrians, and many Jordanese are also Semites...

"Hijacked". It's been in use since the 19th century. Time to adjust to its current usage.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races.

Just had the leader of sin fain (however its spelled"appologieing on nation tv for racism.

So harsdy a true point"

I was speaking generally. If one politician has done so bully for him, but I struggle to see why everyone has lost their nuts over this when anti-Islam remarks are considered OK*, even on here.

* Yes, I know it is supposed to be as bad in law, but it doesn't seem to be in practice.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples... "

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is? "
.

Lol what you managed to spot all the anti Jewish remarks in the papers but goldsmiths Muslim musings passed you by!!.

To be honest I couldn't give a shit about either of the story's.

Anti Semitic videos are rife on the intent, anti Muslim videos are rife, pro isis videos are rife.

Some blinking poxy councillors are the very least of the problem

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is? "

Nothing directly insulting Khan but alluding to him being a terrorist sympathiser and sharing platforms with terrorists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

"
.

That's the real story behind the story.

Moving the narrative

I'm probably being anti Semitic just pointing this shit out

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

They seem to have turned into one this past few months.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is? .

Lol what you managed to spot all the anti Jewish remarks in the papers but goldsmiths Muslim musings passed you by!!.

To be honest I couldn't give a shit about either of the story's.

Anti Semitic videos are rife on the intent, anti Muslim videos are rife, pro isis videos are rife.

Some blinking poxy councillors are the very least of the problem"

I was asking what were the offensive bits? Pipe down or I'm about to set fire to some tyres

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is? .

Lol what you managed to spot all the anti Jewish remarks in the papers but goldsmiths Muslim musings passed you by!!.

To be honest I couldn't give a shit about either of the story's.

Anti Semitic videos are rife on the intent, anti Muslim videos are rife, pro isis videos are rife.

Some blinking poxy councillors are the very least of the problem

I was asking what were the offensive bits? Pipe down or I'm about to set fire to some tyres "
.

...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races.

Just had the leader of sin fain (however its spelled"appologieing on nation tv for racism.

So harsdy a true point

I was speaking generally. If one politician has done so bully for him, but I struggle to see why everyone has lost their nuts over this when anti-Islam remarks are considered OK*, even on here.

* Yes, I know it is supposed to be as bad in law, but it doesn't seem to be in practice."

People who have spouted anti Islamist views have been kicked out of their respective parties and are largely shot down on here.

Labour only feel the need to suspend their racists , and have in fact allowed known anti Semites back into the party.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I iust remind people that Semite isnt just an interchangeable word for Jew. The Semitic people can indeed be Hebrew, or Phonecian, or Arab. If you mean anti jewish say so. Its all a smokescreen anyway. Trying to take attention from the bigger picture.. ie getting fucked over by a non elected federal state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The internal and external spotlight has been well and truly shone on Labour.

I am very glad for it, and believe that the investigation by Shami Chakrobati will be thorough. I hope anyone found to be anti-semitic is kicked out.

I presume, also, that a similar intense spotlight is going to be shone also on other parties and media outlets. The Spectator, for example, uses anti-semitic language on a regular basis.

Goldsmith has been roundly criticised for running a racist campaign in the mayoral election.

.....But not suspended by the Conservative Party? Indeed, highly praised by Cameron a couple of days ago?

What's he actually said? Goldsmith that is?

Nothing directly insulting Khan but alluding to him being a terrorist sympathiser and sharing platforms with terrorists.

That's not very nice unless he has shared platforms with terrorist sympathisers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At a risk of being shot down in flames by all and sundry, I think that the real problem is not disagreeing with Israeli policy (which would be exercising free speech) but where the members of any political grouping share platforms with groups who preach anti semitic views.

That said of course we should all recognise that, this has been stirred up to destabilise Corbyn's leadership. "

Ummm no, don't give a crap of labour want to piss away their election prospects on Corbyn.

I do have a problem with people making apologies for Hitler and the Holocaust.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him. "

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Strange how the definition of " Semites" has been hijacked; since Jews, Palestinians , Lebanese, some Syrians, and many Jordanese are also Semites...

I tried pointing this out yesterday on another thread, some people are unable to reconcile themselves to the idea that semites are not all Jewish though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think that anti Israel comments are anti Semitic.. Some stances by extreme Palestinian groups are anti Semitic .. But hardly surprising because of the behaviour of the Israeli government

Yeh but anti Jewish remarks are anti Semitic.

So if you say anything bad about a Jew ever, you're anti semitic?

Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a bunch anyway - as stated above, most of the UK public seem absolutely fine with insulting other races.

Just had the leader of sin fain (however its spelled"appologieing on nation tv for racism.

So harsdy a true point

I was speaking generally. If one politician has done so bully for him, but I struggle to see why everyone has lost their nuts over this when anti-Islam remarks are considered OK*, even on here.

* Yes, I know it is supposed to be as bad in law, but it doesn't seem to be in practice."

Well he was forced to apologise for as he used the word nigger.

Ironically not in a derogatory way but in a kindred spirit sense .

athough Diane Abbott proves time and time again you csn be as racist as you like against white prople and get away eith it.

"White people love playing divide and conquer" being a good example.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar"

This - I have no issue with Judaism, nor Jewish people. What I have an issue with is how the state of Israel is and has been operating, and how some nations haven't been firm enough with them. The notion of a Jewish state was a nice idea, until that state decided to not correspond with agreements made.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky. "

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That said of course we should all recognise that, this has been stirred up to destabilise Corbyn's leadership. "

Nobody forced these labour councillors to tweet and Facebook what they did.

One even took it upon himself to directly tweet a famous Jewish man to direct abuse at him, just because he was Jewish.

You can only stir something if it's there.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

How are Muslims to blame for people like Ken? You sure you're not just Islamophobic?"

The OP was talking about Councillors. Look at the majority of names that have been suspended.

I am absolutely not Islamaphobic and this is not about Islamaphobia, it is about Councillors of a Muslim background who can't keep their personal opinions to themselves.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Strange how the definition of " Semites" has been hijacked; since Jews, Palestinians , Lebanese, some Syrians, and many Jordanese are also Semites...

This, I know a guy and his sister who I went to school with, I now work with him and see him and his sister a lot socially. Both are dedicated to their faith, but as British Jews they disdain the actions of the state of Israel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people. "

Hahaha, it's like when someone quotes something to a UKIP member they said, from their FB, Twitter or a video, and they insist it is fabricated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism. "

And so the labour leadership has been informed there is a now vocal problem and they are dealing with it. Surly this is better than when political parties protect members who should be in a position of influence, or in a way worse, tell them they can have the position so long as they hide their real thoughts on he issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if I'm anti Judaism, the religion but pro humans who define themselves as Jewish.

Technically your born Jewish whether you practise your religion or not.

I don't like the fact they butcher their children's foreskins, it's a barbaric act from the past and really shouldn't be allowed in the 21st century...

But then Muslims and Christians have their own little barbaric practises as well... Criticism is a necessary evil of advancement, unfortunately some people take criticism into name calling, that's not good, and some don't like the criticism so they label everything racist/bigot yadda yadda.

The mark of a civilised society is not to eliminate name calling or sexisim or racism but to allow us all to live with different ideologies without descending into violence....

You only have to look on the web for a whole host of "Jewish conspiracy theory" bullshit to see where the problem is coming from by the gullible and the idiots...

The beauty of the web is you can also see the other side of Palestinian repression by the Israeli state which harbours the resentment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism.

I think people just expect a discipline greater than suspension and perhaps an investigation into it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's a non story being whipped up by the tories and media.

Any hate speech, racism etc is abhorrent but I've wasted too much time on this already."

It is being whipped up by the Blairites (which includes most of the parliamentary labour party) within labours own ranks...and fed to the media! The Tories are loving it....all they have to do is just sit back and lap it up!

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him. "

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

If you wanted to be peurile about it, you could say that anybody who thinks we should have an NHS or a BBC (for example), is a marxist, because the notion of state owned media and health services is a Marxist one.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people. "

We were just saying this, how thick are they ?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people.

We were just saying this, how thick are they ?"

I would have thought it would be lesson no 1 at the MP induction course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism.

I think people just expect a discipline greater than suspension and perhaps an investigation into it. "

I agree. I mean it depends on the conviction but I really think there should be a way people should be banned from engaging in politics permanently as punishment, only retaining their right to vote - but not to put themselves forward for political positions, obviously if the conviction fits this e.g I would say blatant hate speech should be enough for this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people.

We were just saying this, how thick are they ?

I would have thought it would be lesson no 1 at the MP induction course."

It might be, but we forget that Ed Balls first tweet was "Ed Balls." Clearly British politicians have tech issues. :P

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people.

We were just saying this, how thick are they ?

I would have thought it would be lesson no 1 at the MP induction course."

Even prior to becoming an MP;

All candidates should be thoroughly vetted before they can stand for any position of authority

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder why politicians haven't got their heads around the fact that Tweets and Facebook posts are going to be visible to a lot of people.

We were just saying this, how thick are they ?

I would have thought it would be lesson no 1 at the MP induction course.

Even prior to becoming an MP;

All candidates should be thoroughly vetted before they can stand for any position of authority

Yes, it just makes so little sense that there isn't a strict system which prevents individuals like this form becoming party chancellors, MP's and MEP's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

So that is about a dozen labour party members out of several hundred thousand? Not a terrible statistic."

Several hundred thousand members, several hundred councillors.

Not such a good statistic now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

Ok I'll get serious... Ahem,

What was the nature of these remarks and how long have the three been in the labour party?.

Is there any other detail"

Why does the length of time they've been members/councillors matter?

They're members.

They said it.

It's their view.

They're out.

The end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed. "

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

Marxism is every bit as extreme as facism. If any MP hesitated to the question "are you a facist?" They would be out in seconds. It's just more tolerated because in WW2 we threw in our lot with that evil to fight another evil. Pragmatic and not a decision to regret, but people should stop turning a blind eye to the fact that the Soviet Union was every bit as sinister as the Nazis.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

I'm sure everyone is fully aware of this. Jews never left 'Palestine' and actually were settled thousands of years ago, so the claim that they should move to the US is fundamentally flawed in that they have every right to exist in the State of Israel.

The cause of the problems in the area is not so simple as sayng Israel bad, Palestinians good. Christians particularly in the last 1500 years have not been supportive. The Muslims and Ottomans were in fact much better 'dictators' when they ruled the lands, but never did Jews leave the area.

It is only since 1948 when Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and Jordan tried to destroy Israel ( in numerous wars started by the Arab nations) that the seige mentality that drives much of Israels behaviour was formed.

But then everyone knows this... Perhaps if everyone accepted the right of Israel to exist and their right to defend their people (Jews, Christians and Muslims)then it might be possible to agree a way for Palestinians to live in harmony with Jews and Christians.

Just a thought... & a hope

For the avoidance of doubt, we are not religious but could most closely be described as agnostic Christians or CofE!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sure everyone is fully aware of this. Jews never left 'Palestine' and actually were settled thousands of years ago, so the claim that they should move to the US is fundamentally flawed in that they have every right to exist in the State of Israel.

Just a thought... & a hope

For the avoidance of doubt, we are not religious but could most closely be described as agnostic Christians or CofE!

All good points but I think the contemporary issue is that the UN 1948 borders are what Israel, Palestine and neighbouring nations agreed to. Yet Israel was he aggressor in violating them - since then Israel has used is greater wealth and military to effectively invade what were Palestinian territories. I'm well aware that certain Palestinian groups have committed atrocities but really, that is how highly dissociated groups react when they feel as though their rights are been ignored by the UN.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just a thought... & a hope

For the avoidance of doubt, we are not religious but could most closely be described as agnostic Christians or CofE!

Maybe the UN should have done more than write stern letters when Israel was getting attacked and fighting for its survival then...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

Ok I'll get serious... Ahem,

What was the nature of these remarks and how long have the three been in the labour party?.

Is there any other detail

Why does the length of time they've been members/councillors matter?

They're members.

They said it.

It's their view.

They're out.

The end.

"
.

I thought that would be obvious, the question was if you look, "why have labour attracted bigots and racists" in the context of the question id have to ask how long have they been members as that will tell me what attracted them in the first place!

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

That's total rubbish and you know it. Marxism is not Leninism or Stalinism. Any socialism, even that present in a mixed economy owes a lot to the writings of Marx. Marxism can be many things

Another example: Hobsbawm is a Marxist historian, that is; he chooses to interpret history in terms of the class struggle, (as was my A-level history teacher, who was also a card carrying member of the Conservative party).

But again, I suspect that you know this (apart from the bit about my history teacher).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

That's total rubbish and you know it. Marxism is not Leninism or Stalinism. Any socialism, even that present in a mixed economy owes a lot to the writings of Marx. Marxism can be many things

But again, I suspect that you know this (apart from the bit about my history teacher)."

Marxism is a heavily flawed theory that doesn't understand the basic principle of economic growth because it assumes productivity is static. Was it hijacked by Stalin? - maybe. But then so was eugenics by Hitler and try having a rational conversation about that these days.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

That's total rubbish and you know it. Marxism is not Leninism or Stalinism. Any socialism, even that present in a mixed economy owes a lot to the writings of Marx. Marxism can be many things

But again, I suspect that you know this (apart from the bit about my history teacher).

Have you actually read Capital? It's a critique of capitalism and makes many points still valid today which is remarkable considering when it was written. It is also the basis for all socialist movements, democratic, revolutionary, vanguardist etc etc. This is why your assertion that "Marxism" is extreme is at best, peurile. Bevan owes as much to Marx as Liebknecht.

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field

It makes an excellent smoke screen to cover the story about the Tory party breaking the law to obtain a majority in the last election- so they're effectively operating an illegal government as they wouldn't have had enough votes without this 'administrative error'. After all, we wouldn't want the general population to be worried or bothered by such trivial things in their daily rags eh?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It makes an excellent smoke screen to cover the story about the Tory party breaking the law to obtain a majority in the last election- so they're effectively operating an illegal government as they wouldn't have had enough votes without this 'administrative error'. After all, we wouldn't want the general population to be worried or bothered by such trivial things in their daily rags eh?

So these councillors were coerced into posting ant Semitic views on social media by the Tories who knew they would need a distraction in the coming months ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly - I couldn't finish it. It's drivel. You can't make a sensible critique of capitalism if you don't understand where economic growth comes from. It actually fails to understand basic principles that Adam Smith had laid out back in 1776. Or I could be kinder and say it willfully ignores them because they inconvenience the theory.

It has eternal appeal for other reasons, but it's empirical or predictive validity are not those reasons.

Have you read Schumpeters 1942 classic "capitalism, socialism and democracy"? It's far better. He had the foresight to predict that the real collapse of capitalism will come from fuck wits who don't understand where economic growth comes from and that's happening right before your eyes now!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Why didn't the Labour Party vet their candidates better? Twitter and Facebook is there for the world to scrutinise. If I was a prospective candidate, my first thought would be to close all my accounts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So these councillors were coerced into posting ant Semitic views on social media by the Tories who knew they would need a distraction in the coming months ?"

Back up by the right wing media that have infiltrated the BBC and guardian...

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Three labour councillors have been suspended today for anti Semitic remarks make on social media.

Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

It's obvious really. Because labour is currently an extreme left party and extreme parties attract extreme people. "

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

Who me ?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

Who me ?

Yes, you

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field

So these councillors were coerced into posting ant Semitic views on social media by the Tories who knew they would need a distraction in the coming months ?"

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

It has eternal appeal for other reasons, but it's empirical or predictive validity are not those reasons.

You are willfully missing the point I see. Yes I have read Schumpter.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

Who me ?

Yes, you

They're the party that just keep fucking up.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So these councillors were coerced into posting ant Semitic views on social media by the Tories who knew they would need a distraction in the coming months ?

Not according to the British media it isn't.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

Who me ?

Yes, you

They're the party that just keep fucking up. "

Ok.

Wait for the referendum and the Tory party leadership contest.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

So these councillors were coerced into posting ant Semitic views on social media by the Tories who knew they would need a distraction in the coming months ?

It's maybe more a case of convenience, but for me, a government incumbent on illegal terms in what's is supposed to be a democracy, is a much bigger story than a few more MP's of whatever party with extreme views and big mouths"
What law did they break?Do remember that Blair arranged the boundaries for labour to have a built in advantage,all elections favour Labour on the boundaries.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

These posts are getting dreadfully long

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why people are saying "yeh well the Tories are worse!".

It shouldn't matter who's worse, all politicians saying awful things should all be held accountable. Don't know how anyone can defend it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It has eternal appeal for other reasons, but it's empirical or predictive validity are not those reasons.

You are willfully missing the point I see. Yes I have read Schumpter. "

No I just disagree with you.

I wouldn't want everything to be left to the free market. Thats just common sense more than a credit to Marx for anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting dreadfully long "

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Why have labour attracted such bigots & racists to their party ?

For the same reason the Conservative party attracts them.

Anyone would think the OP has an axe to grind over the Labour party.

Who me ?

Yes, you

They're the party that just keep fucking up.

Ok.

Wait for the referendum and the Tory party leadership contest.

I enjoy them fucking up also.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Politicians are no different to anyone else. They will nail their colours to the mast of any popular trend. Bashing Israel is de rigeur at the moment and they have got carried away by going off message and allowing their true feelings to show. Never a good idea for any politician that wants to get on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't see why people are saying "yeh well the Tories are worse!".

It shouldn't matter who's worse, all politicians saying awful things should all be held accountable. Don't know how anyone can defend it. "

This, racism is racism whatever side of the house it comes from and should be roundly condemned .

All this , " but they're worse" is just deflection.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain' "

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

The right wing media and tories stiring it all up because Ken Livingstone has been taken out of context... for the fourth fucking time

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I don't see why people are saying "yeh well the Tories are worse!".

It shouldn't matter who's worse, all politicians saying awful things should all be held accountable. Don't know how anyone can defend it. "

Yep. But bloody politics keeps on getting in the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't see why people are saying "yeh well the Tories are worse!".

It shouldn't matter who's worse, all politicians saying awful things should all be held accountable. Don't know how anyone can defend it.

This, racism is racism whatever side of the house it comes from and should be roundly condemned .

All this , " but they're worse" is just deflection. "
.

I don't think anybody thinks it's anything but racism!.

It's just I honestly don't think it's that big a deal, they said racist remarks, they've faced punishment. Job done

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

The right wing media and tories stiring it all up because Ken Livingstone has been taken out of context... for the fourth fucking time "
i hadn't realised my mate John McDonnell was a member of the right wing media? I shall have to ask him why he kept that from me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

The right wing media and tories stiring it all up because Ken Livingstone has been taken out of context... for the fourth fucking time i hadn't realised my mate John McDonnell was a member of the right wing media? I shall have to ask him why he kept that from me"

Yep, the problem clearly isn't with the wider labour party as a heck of a lot of the criticism has come from the sensible parts of the party (who are clinging on for dear life). However, some key members are clearly in the minority problem group.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

If you mean Livingstone, he's always been a cunt

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

ANyway. I'd rather have Anti-Zionists(hopefully they're not anti-Jewish remarks, the two things are not the same at all)than some of the nutcases on the right: Oliver Letwin advising Thatcher not to give £ in assistance after the Tottenham and Handsworth riots in the 80s as it would go on drugs, discos, and Rastafarian workshops. Yeah, the one who was Head of the Cabinet Office and is basically Cameron's chief policy advisor.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Bolstered by a right wing press which sponsored by Murdoch had the only two newspapers to make no reference to the miscarriage of justice re: Hillsborough(The Sun and The Times)the day after the Hillsborough report came out last week.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

If you mean Livingstone, he's always been a cunt"

Yes he has and I give John Mann a hell of a lot of credit for confronting him for being the Nazi apologist scum that he is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories. "

I don't see anything nice about the idea of Marxism. It farts in the face of what it is to be human and could never produce economic growth. If you don't want economic growth then personally I'd rather live like the native americans did because at least they didn't fuck the planet with their lifestyle.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

"It's a non story being whipped up by the tories and media.

Any hate speech, racism etc is abhorrent but I've wasted too much time on this already."

Funny thing is, if it's a tory, it's the gospel truth...

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

The right wing media and tories stiring it all up because Ken Livingstone has been taken out of context... for the fourth fucking time "

No need to swear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfz3OmOY3A

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I don't see anything nice about the idea of Marxism. It farts in the face of what it is to be human and could never produce economic growth. If you don't want economic growth then personally I'd rather live like the native americans did because at least they didn't fuck the planet with their lifestyle. "

What would your Indian name be, I wonder?

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"These posts are getting dreadfully long

Conspiracy theories take a long time to 'explain'

Which conspiracy theories are you referring to?

The right wing media and tories stiring it all up because Ken Livingstone has been taken out of context... for the fourth fucking time

No need to swear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfz3OmOY3A"

Aw, swearing is how we decorate our sentences

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

Key members of the Labour party have publicly supported people that are classed as terrorists by other parties and countries.

These terrorists are all for destroying Israel and killing Jews.

You can't support a terrorist and be friends with the victims...

As someone else pointed out extremes of any party will attract extremists...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories. "

You are falling into the trap of saying it's ok if labour are racists because the Torys are bigger racists.

This attitude will never deal with the problem it will only make it grow.

By ignoring the racist on the left it will allow them grow.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories.

I did say that it's a lovely idea.

You don't like the idea of sharing and caring then. What kind of human wouldn't like that(apart from capitalists and neo capitalists.

How is making sure everyone benefits from an economy 'farting in the face of what it means to be human'. Unless, of course, the human is selfish?

Erm. Aren't the Us(fuck the world we'll carry on using fossil fuels and having ridiculously sized cars/fridges)and the Chinese(OOHHH:MONEY!RIght, lets poison our own people's atmosphere, and everyone else's so we can make a literal quick buck?

I agree about the native American peoples' sentiment(I'm guessing it was a sentiment). ANd, indeed, the lifestyle of most indiginous peoples.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Because it doesn't work

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Key members of the Labour party have publicly supported people that are classed as terrorists by other parties and countries.

These terrorists are all for destroying Israel and killing Jews.

You can't support a terrorist and be friends with the victims...

As someone else pointed out extremes of any party will attract extremists..."

Who? You mean that terrorist sympathiser who has shared a stage with Tory MP Jane Ellison, and had a photo taken with Goldsmith himself(at a political event), and Tory MP Tanias Mathias who is pictured seeking the terrorist sympathiser's help in reaching out to London mosques.

The same errorist sympathiser(Gani)who supported the Tores and provided canvassers for them and had been asked by the Tory party to help find local councillors for them?

He's horrible that nasty human rights lawyer Khan.

Ergo: your post is pretty lacking in clarity and knowledge: the Tories have supported the terrrorist sympathiser more than Labour.

Was that your point also(but had forgotten to incude it)?

If so, then fair enough!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories.

I did say that it's a lovely idea.

You don't like the idea of sharing and caring then. What kind of human wouldn't like that(apart from capitalists and neo capitalists.

How is making sure everyone benefits from an economy 'farting in the face of what it means to be human'. Unless, of course, the human is selfish?

I agree about the native American peoples' sentiment(I'm guessing it was a sentiment). ANd, indeed, the lifestyle of most indiginous peoples."

Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Every attempt to go against our human nature results in worse outcomes than would otherwise have been. The native American system was awesome except there was no growth and minimal technological progress so they got f'ed up but people that had guns. Of all the systems that have growth and technological progress, capitalism is the least worst by a long way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What would your Indian name be, I wonder?

Small dick angry short bull?

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"i think it just should there is as much of a problem on the left... as there is on the right

Extreme parties = extreme people = problem. Doesn't matter if it's far left or far right, just look at the 20th century for examples...

Of course, but the Labour party are hardly an extreme party are they?

Corbyn is definately extreme so do with that what you will.

Bernie Sanders was considered radical in America and Corbyn is much more left than him.

Extreme? Really?

He is a social democrat of the liberal, hand-wringing persuasion. He's hardly Trotsky.

https://youtu.be/8sjiTzeJhwg

"Do you regard yourself as a Marxist?"

"That's a very interesting question actually"

If that's not extreme then Hitler just had a temper on him.

I don't see your point.

If you are a socialist of any flavour then by definition, you must have some leanings towards Marx, but I think you know this.

I did notice that video was a badly put together load of soundbites in which the context was (deliberately) removed.

Ummm no. Marxists don't want any private property whilst there's clearly a distinction between people that want a few key assets in government hands with everything else left to the free market.

There's also a tipping point and Corbyn wants far more in government hands than the average voter.

The Russians killed more of their own people than the Germans. There's countless other iterations of failed communist regimes everywhere. China. North Korea. Etc etc.

But they have subverted Marxism to their own ends, murdering their own people and milking the profit for their own ends and becoming Totalitarian states.

Marxism as an idea is a lovely idea, just no one has made it work, Cuba included.

Marxism shouldn't be lumped in with fascism.

The same Cameron who refers to refugees as a 'swarm'.

The same government who refuse a pitiful amount of child refugees into the country.

WHere the Home Secretary says 20,000 can come over four years...

WHere the (probable)new leader referred to black people as 'piccaninnies with water melon smiles' and told the people of Liverpool to 'stop whingeing' about 96 dying in Sheffield.

Where Zac Goldsmith can whip up Muslim/ Jewish community tension with bollocks about sharing a stage with a terrorist sympathiser.

Yeah. Much nicer country under the Tories.

You are falling into the trap of saying it's ok if labour are racists because the Torys are bigger racists.

This attitude will never deal with the problem it will only make it grow.

By ignoring the racist on the left it will allow them grow. "

I know. I haven't tried to defend them yet or not(I need to go through what was said),just taking issue with some of the other comments.I'm easily distracted!

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

"Key members of the Labour party have publicly supported people that are classed as terrorists by other parties and countries.

These terrorists are all for destroying Israel and killing Jews.

You can't support a terrorist and be friends with the victims...

As someone else pointed out extremes of any party will attract extremists...

The same errorist sympathiser(Gani)who supported the Tores and provided canvassers for them and had been asked by the Tory party to help find local councillors for them?

He's horrible that nasty human rights lawyer Khan.

Ergo: your post is pretty lacking in clarity and knowledge: the Tories have supported the terrrorist sympathiser more than Labour.

Was that your point also(but had forgotten to incude it)?

If so, then fair enough!"

We are talking about the labour party and their problems.

As usual people have to attack other parties to defend the indefensible...

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field

You are falling into the trap of saying it's ok if labour are racists because the Torys are bigger racists.

I think you might be getting distracted by the semantics of this single story and missing the point highlighted in several posts- we have a very biased media in this country who will make a big deal out of anything they see as a threat to their power and interests and frequently underplay or just ignore some pretty big issues when it concerned their Tory pals, which effectively gives them an unfair advantage at voting time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are falling into the trap of saying it's ok if labour are racists because the Torys are bigger racists.

I've read some things that have been said and they're disgusting to me. I don't know how you can find the same things okay.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that). "

Proof?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

You are falling into the trap of saying it's ok if labour are racists because the Torys are bigger racists.

All sides of the media are running this story.

I don't think this story has arisen from media bias.

Labour haven't been forced to suspend these people.

The press can only report on what's there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought. "

The article is short, uncited, does not go into specifics in regards of 'human evolution' and, if you read it in a certain light, would be a good excuse as to why white and black Americans *just can't* get along.

Not convinced.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced. "

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?"

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

Yes"

But there's a few citations? Anyway, you don't have to be convinced. We can't know for sure either way. It's just one possibility.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

"Key members of the Labour party have publicly supported people that are classed as terrorists by other parties and countries.

These terrorists are all for destroying Israel and killing Jews.

You can't support a terrorist and be friends with the victims...

As someone else pointed out extremes of any party will attract extremists...

The same errorist sympathiser(Gani)who supported the Tores and provided canvassers for them and had been asked by the Tory party to help find local councillors for them?

He's horrible that nasty human rights lawyer Khan.

Ergo: your post is pretty lacking in clarity and knowledge: the Tories have supported the terrrorist sympathiser more than Labour.

Was that your point also(but had forgotten to incude it)?

If so, then fair enough!

We are talking about the labour party and their problems.

As usual people have to attack other parties to defend the indefensible..."

I've only viewed limited sources, but it looks like Gani(the 'terrorist sympathiser')has been labelled as such because he was at a meeting called The Evils Of ISIS, and someone else at the meeting made a misconstrued remark ragarding the historical significance of ISIS or some such.

SO: it may be that Gani ISN't a terrorist sympathiser(but just been made up by the tories to attack the labour candidate Khan).

Five Tory MPs have been associated with the fella in a political context.

So your first sentence ('Key members of the Labour party have publicly supported people that are classed as terrorists by other countries and parties' is wrong isn't it(if you were referring to Khan)?

Plus you overlooked the fact that one 'significant' right wing party supported him actively.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

Yes

But there's a few citations? Anyway, you don't have to be convinced. We can't know for sure either way. It's just one possibility. "

It speaks of 'race' as a useful concept... but, it's not important...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

Yes

But there's a few citations? Anyway, you don't have to be convinced. We can't know for sure either way. It's just one possibility.

It speaks of 'race' as a useful concept... but, it's not important... "

Perhaps when race changed within recent centuries. Races were of greater differences before that point.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

Yes

But there's a few citations? Anyway, you don't have to be convinced. We can't know for sure either way. It's just one possibility.

It speaks of 'race' as a useful concept... but, it's not important...

Perhaps when race changed within recent centuries. Races were of greater differences before that point. "

Race is a red herring, so to speak, invented by... errmm... racists?

At a purely genetic level, for instance, a Zulu from South Africa has more in common, genetically speaking, with a white Northern European than to someone from Ethiopia.

It transpires that as markers of difference go, skin colour is a bad one

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

But, this is a sideshow

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

*taps foot*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Help help im being offended!! You can really say fuck all these days without offending someone!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Humans are naturally tribal not societal. To suggest otherwise is to ignorant of overwhelming archeological and historical evidence (although lefties do specialise in that).

Proof?

Look for homophily. It's one school of thought.

Not convinced.

Which article? The Wikipedia one?

Yes

But there's a few citations? Anyway, you don't have to be convinced. We can't know for sure either way. It's just one possibility.

It speaks of 'race' as a useful concept... but, it's not important...

Perhaps when race changed within recent centuries. Races were of greater differences before that point.

Race is a red herring, so to speak, invented by... errmm... racists?

At a purely genetic level, for instance, a Zulu from South Africa has more in common, genetically speaking, with a white Northern European than to someone from Ethiopia.

It transpires that as markers of difference go, skin colour is a bad one"

Dunno, I think it helps identifying the race of a person when trying to prove homophily. Surely if they're not the same, it help disprove it cos they're not the same. It's just one factor.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Help help im being offended!! You can really say fuck all these days without offending someone!"

So it's unacceptable to be offended by racists comments ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism. "
.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a "problem" with Judaism, it's a region, a man made concept, your getting very confused, in orthodox terms your born Jewish but you wouldn't have to practise Judaism, Judaism you can get "into" and leave... The promised land was promised to the Israelites long before the state of Israel existed.

When you get mythical Gods deciding who lives where and what land belongs to who, you'll surely get problems... Like caliphates in Syria and Iraq, that don't go down very well for Syrians and Iraqis.

The solution to the problems is for Israel to go back to the borders given to it by the UN declaration and for the Palestinians to agree to it!.

Now the PLO have agreed to the state of Israel to exist in that form, the two state solution is doable if the Israeli government could bend a bit.

But just giving Israel huge amounts of the very latest weapons, including nuclear weapons, while subjecting Palestinians to modern concentration camps and genocide won't solve fuck all.

There are big problems in the world, really big ones, and without sounding mean, some councillor calling somebody big nose or posting that Israel should be moved to the USA... Well it really isn't, yes it's wrong, it's childish name calling at best... And at worst it's a tit that's watched to many illuminati conspiracy theories on YouTube.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Help help im being offended!! You can really say fuck all these days without offending someone!

So it's unacceptable to be offended by racists comments ? "

Food for thought...

The Conservative Party are 'essentially racist' according to former Tory aide

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/552697/Conservative-Party-Derek-Laud-David-Cameron-racism

And that's the Express, no less!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Top Tory Apologises Over 'Racist' Riot Remarks

http://news.sky.com/story/1614033/top-tory-apologises-over-racist-riot-remarks

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Tory candidate: Conservative party not doing enough to convince minorities it is not racist

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/02/tory-candidate-conservative-party-not-doing-enough-to-convince-minorities-it-is-not-racist/

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Help help im being offended!! You can really say fuck all these days without offending someone!

So it's unacceptable to be offended by racists comments ?

Food for thought...

The Conservative Party are 'essentially racist' according to former Tory aide

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/552697/Conservative-Party-Derek-Laud-David-Cameron-racism

And that's the Express, no less!

Im not Tory.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

And I'm not even going anywhere *near* Tory Councellors...

So, by all means slap Ken Livingstone for being a cretin and pouring oil on to a fire, and by all means have a pop at the Labour party for failing to have a coherent line or media response to it...

But *don't* tell me racism is unique to the Labour party.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Help help im being offended!! You can really say fuck all these days without offending someone!

So it's unacceptable to be offended by racists comments ?

Food for thought...

The Conservative Party are 'essentially racist' according to former Tory aide

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/552697/Conservative-Party-Derek-Laud-David-Cameron-racism

And that's the Express, no less!

Im not Tory. "

And I don;t vote Labour

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"You surely know you can be against Israel and what they have done in Palestine and NOT be antisemitic?

this

if another country just invaded a place and took away land from others the world would be in uproar

You may feel this , but the people who have been suspended definitely have a problem with Judaism. .

When you get mythical Gods deciding who lives where and what land belongs to who, you'll surely get problems... Like caliphates in Syria and Iraq, that don't go down very well for Syrians and Iraqis.

The solution to the problems is for Israel to go back to the borders given to it by the UN declaration and for the Palestinians to agree to it!.

Now the PLO have agreed to the state of Israel to exist in that form, the two state solution is doable if the Israeli government could bend a bit.

But just giving Israel huge amounts of the very latest weapons, including nuclear weapons, while subjecting Palestinians to modern concentration camps and genocide won't solve fuck all.

Inciting hatred is very wrong, hate speech by an elected official is very wrong and shouldn't be ignored.

None of the suspended people criticised Israel and their governments policies, it was all anti Jew.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

You know I just

to have th last word.

;)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

By _iamondjoe Man 3 minutes ago

Glastonbury

And I'm not even going anywhere *near* Tory Councellors...

So, by all means slap Ken Livingstone for being a cretin and pouring oil on to a fire, and by all means have a pop at the Labour party for failing to have a coherent line or media response to it...

But *don't* tell me racism is unique to the Labour party.

I am not saying this at all.

We all know how racist the Torys and others can be.

My question was why do the Labour Party seem to attract anti Semites because this is definitely a problem for them at the moment.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"By _iamondjoe Man 3 minutes ago

Glastonbury

And I'm not even going anywhere *near* Tory Councellors...

So, by all means slap Ken Livingstone for being a cretin and pouring oil on to a fire, and by all means have a pop at the Labour party for failing to have a coherent line or media response to it...

But *don't* tell me racism is unique to the Labour party.

I am not saying this at all.

We all know how racist the Torys and others can be.

My question was why do the Labour Party seem to attract anti Semites because this is definitely a problem for them at the moment."

And, as stated, it is perfectly possible to be critical of Israel's domestic and foreign policies without being anti-Semitic.

What has been most frustrating when it comes to dealing with individual examples of antisemitism in the Labour party has been the flat-footed response that has given the impression that it is apathetic to tackling antisemitism or indifferent

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I believe that this is the problem.

They have seen others in the party get away with vile comments and even members being reinstated to the party after suspension so they think it's ok.

Ken has been doing this for thirty years without redress so it's no wonder others think it's fine.

Corbyn has been very slow and somewhat reluctant to even admit there's a problem,

But 15 people suspended in a few days points to exactly the opposite.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"What has been most frustrating when it comes to dealing with individual examples of antisemitism in the Labour party has been the flat-footed response that has given the impression that it is apathetic to tackling antisemitism or indifferent

I believe that this is the problem.

They have seen others in the party get away with vile comments and even members being reinstated to the party after suspension so they think it's ok.

Ken has been doing this for thirty years without redress so it's no wonder others think it's fine.

Corbyn has been very slow and somewhat reluctant to even admit there's a problem,

But 15 people suspended in a few days points to exactly the opposite."

No - it points to a party in a flap, caught on the backfoot.

And again, I state that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel's policies.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

And again, I state that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel's policies.

I fully agree.

But none of the suspended criticised Israeli policies.

In fact most of them didn't even mention Israeli policy.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

[Removed by poster at 03/05/16 01:07:12]

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"And again, I state that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel's policies.

I fully agree.

But none of the suspended criticised Israeli policies.

In fact most of them didn't even mention Israeli policy."

So who has been suspended?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"And again, I state that it is not anti-Semitic to criticise Israel's policies.

I fully agree.

But none of the suspended criticised Israeli policies.

In fact most of them didn't even mention Israeli policy.

So who has been suspended? "

'Cos we already covered that councilors talk shit

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Livingstone said Hitler was a Zionist because in the early thirties he was in favour of banishing Jews to Palestine (he actually called it Israel but Israel didn't exist then , but historical accuracy has never been his forte) , only then went mad and killed 6 million Jews.

His historical version of the holocaust is only slightly more bizarre than his contention that someone who only hates Jews living in Israel - but not outside it - cannot be considered an anti Semite.

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