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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?" It's interesting and fulfilling and top docs get paid a wodge  | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. ". Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap? It's interesting and fulfilling and top docs get paid a wodge "So what's the strike for then? They knew it was crap but they wanted it  | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap? It's interesting and fulfilling and top docs get paid a wodge
So what's the strike for then? They knew it was crap but they wanted it "It's not just for more dosh. All sorts of things. Exactly what, I'm not sure but I don't care what they want to be honest as long as they have it. Anyone capable of saving my life is worth whatever it takes. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?" I don't think any doctor would say the pay is "crap", but they would say that the training is extensive and tough, the hours are long and the expectations unending. Those expectations are about to be increased hugely, including having their contracts ripped up and a new one that they fundamentally disagree with imposed without agreement. This dispute is not about pay. | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. . Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. "i find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you .. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service." . What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?" whatever it is (as with Nurses) its far preferable and admirable a human trait than some others exhibit.. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . " No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?" . Probably because they know that over their working lives they will be very generously awarded and. get a really good pension when they retire . | |||
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"... This dispute is not about pay." It's all about pay. As I understand it, their hours and responsibilities are unchanged. What Hunt is trying to impose is the removal of overtime pay for weekend work. Personally, I think interns are overworked and underpaid and I support a reduction in their hours and an increase in their pay. But it's a sad day when Doctors who swear a Hippocratic oath are prepared to down tools and remove even emergency cover. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?. Probably because they know that over their working lives they will be very generously awarded and. get a really good pension when they retire . " Good. Quite right too. If anyone is envious of this situation, then you too can spend the time and effort and qualify as a doctor as well. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. " . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified . | |||
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"... This dispute is not about pay. It's all about pay. As I understand it, their hours and responsibilities are unchanged. What Hunt is trying to impose is the removal of overtime pay for weekend work. Personally, I think interns are overworked and underpaid and I support a reduction in their hours and an increase in their pay. But it's a sad day when Doctors who swear a Hippocratic oath are prepared to down tools and remove even emergency cover. " Emergency cover will be done by senior doctors and consultants. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap? whatever it is (as with Nurses) its far preferable and admirable a human trait than some others exhibit.." Thanks ....  Suzi | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified ." . Pat... Do you copy and paste your replies on the forums, I swear you could remove the word doctor and replace it with any number of forum topics.... It's like your stock answer to everything except why you bleeding gas meter is bollocksed  | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?" Because they have a genuine interest in medicine and working with people. Not everyone chooses their work based on what they can earn. If that was the case the junior doctors would just emigrate and get the pay they want elsewhere. Why is it that the professions that help us are the ones that get this sort of comment? When teachers strike the same comment is made. There are some roles we just need. We are civilized enough to recognise everyone needs access to health care and education and not just those that can buy it just for themselves. If the imposed contracts spread an already thin layer even further then it's us that suffers. This isn't about crap pay but crap circumstances being foisted on a group of workers. It's a pretty poor society where the brightest and the best just work where the biggest money is available. | |||
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"... This dispute is not about pay. It's all about pay. As I understand it, their hours and responsibilities are unchanged. What Hunt is trying to impose is the removal of overtime pay for weekend work. Personally, I think interns are overworked and underpaid and I support a reduction in their hours and an increase in their pay. But it's a sad day when Doctors who swear a Hippocratic oath are prepared to down tools and remove even emergency cover. " Then you understand it very wrong. | |||
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"... This dispute is not about pay. It's all about pay. As I understand it, their hours and responsibilities are unchanged. What Hunt is trying to impose is the removal of overtime pay for weekend work. Personally, I think interns are overworked and underpaid and I support a reduction in their hours and an increase in their pay. But it's a sad day when Doctors who swear a Hippocratic oath are prepared to down tools and remove even emergency cover. Then you understand it very wrong." Ok, so enlighten us all then | |||
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"It's not just for more dosh. All sorts of things." Ahhh, more to it than I thought then. I only get my news updates in the Fab forums  | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap? Because they have a genuine interest in medicine and working with people." I realise this, I was being facetious because I thought it was all about pay | |||
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"... This dispute is not about pay. It's all about pay. As I understand it, their hours and responsibilities are unchanged. What Hunt is trying to impose is the removal of overtime pay for weekend work. Personally, I think interns are overworked and underpaid and I support a reduction in their hours and an increase in their pay. But it's a sad day when Doctors who swear a Hippocratic oath are prepared to down tools and remove even emergency cover. Then you understand it very wrong. Ok, so enlighten us all then" There has been much enlightenment on these threads, but there's plenty out there for anyone not wanting to repeat the Jeremy Hunt version | |||
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"Th" Did you leave to have your shower mid word? | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified .. Pat... Do you copy and paste your replies on the forums, I swear you could remove the word doctor and replace it with any number of forum topics.... It's like your stock answer to everything except why you bleeding gas meter is bollocksed "Don't forget the terrorists with knitting needles  | |||
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"Th Did you leave to have your shower mid word? " No, I was about to say 'THx118 - I miss him' | |||
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"It's not just for more dosh. All sorts of things. Ahhh, more to it than I thought then. I only get my news updates in the Fab forums "Haha! It's where I hear lots of things first too! | |||
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"Those self same people who denigrate teachers, were taught by teachers. Those self same people who denigate the medical professionals will no doubt boycott their use of such a service citing 'you get paid too much' to them as their reason. Or I might be wrong and when they have the heart attack and get fast and efficient life saving treatment, they might feel a tad grateful. Who knows?" Or they complain because the waiting lists are too long and there aren't enough doctors and nurses to treat people. Oh wait, they get paid too much and if they don't like the pay they should do something else so guess what, they went and did something else. It's not just the long, exacting medical training it's the need to keep up to date and deal with the vast number of rude and demanding people wanting a highly qualified surgeon when all they've done is stub their toe. | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap?. Probably because they know that over their working lives they will be very generously awarded and. get a really good pension when they retire . " Or its a noble job not everyone can do despite everything. They just want to be able to go to work without the worry of killing someone because they have already worked 36 hours! | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified ." And how exactly is a politician''s payments justified? The expenses....they fantastic pension etc etc. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified .. Pat... Do you copy and paste your replies on the forums, I swear you could remove the word doctor and replace it with any number of forum topics.... It's like your stock answer to everything except why you bleeding gas meter is bollocksed
Don't forget the terrorists with knitting needles ". Who could forget that classic | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified . And how exactly is a politician''s payments justified? The expenses....they fantastic pension etc etc." . The difference being that all politicians are elected by the people and in any event as the number of politicians is comparatively small what they are paid is not that important | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified . And how exactly is a politician''s payments justified? The expenses....they fantastic pension etc etc.. The difference being that all politicians are elected by the people and in any event as the number of politicians is comparatively small what they are paid is not that important " And the answer to the question I asked is? | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified . And how exactly is a politician''s payments justified? The expenses....they fantastic pension etc etc.. The difference being that all politicians are elected by the people and in any event as the number of politicians is comparatively small what they are paid is not that important And the answer to the question I asked is?" . MPs salaries can hardly be deemed to be excessive . Their numbers are comparatively small and as such the amount that we pay them has no impact on taxation | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service." . We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. What makes Doctors think that they have a right to retain various Spanish Practices ?. Society has changed and not many workers get paid premiums. for weekend work..Why should Doctors be any difference . ? Over their working lives Doctors are very well paid and have very generous pension schemes . No idea, I'm not a doctor. But they clearly feel very strongly about it and I'd rather trust the judgement of a group of professional qualified medical staff about medical working practices than a man who needs no qualifications or experience to do his job. Doctors should get paid a lot because they can save people's lives. How much would you pay someone to save your life, Pat? Would you scrimp or pay them what they wanted? It's not just about pay anyway. . I think that Doctors are already very well paid . Intereresting there is lots of bullying in the NHS . We could apply the argument about saving lives to lots of people . Funds are not unlimited and the government has a responsibility to ensure that any payments made to Doctors are justified . And how exactly is a politician''s payments justified? The expenses....they fantastic pension etc etc.. The difference being that all politicians are elected by the people and in any event as the number of politicians is comparatively small what they are paid is not that important " What? I am sure many think that the amount politicians are paid is important. A junior doctor at foundation level is paid £22,862 - £25,716. The highest shown amount for speciality registrars is £47,647. So about the same as mid to senior level civil service with a degree in English. An MP is paid a basic pay of £74,962, whether they help their constituents or not, whether they turn up to vote or not. I don't think MPs are paid well for the level of hassle they have and, for those who do it properly, for the level of work they do. However, if I had to choose which profession got the £74k and which got the £47k based purely on their level of skills, knowledge and responsibility it would be the doctors not the MPs. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . " Hardly trained nurses???????? From the countless millions that go toward wars....MPs salaries etc etc. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . " Let's use the Right to Buy funding. There's always a compromise to be made on where the money comes from. This is as much a choice as any other government spending. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . " Should read highly trained nurses . | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . " The doctors aren't asking to be paid extra. Would you care to explain how, without employing any extra staff, we can rota a full 7-day service without doctors working more hours than they already are? | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . Hardly trained nurses???????? From the countless millions that go toward wars....MPs salaries etc etc." . The spending on defence is probably crucial unless we are happy to take the. risk of counties walking all over us . | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . " . Lol you sound like Jeremy hunt!. . "Could some of the work be done by hardly trained nurses".. I really honestly don't know where to start with that sentence, except to say, I hope to god your never put in charge of anything to do with a heath service... But to be fair, I thought the same about Jeremy hunt  | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . Should read highly trained nurses . " That already happens. We now have nurse practitioners. My GP service would be on its knees without them, following the retirement of one of the GPs and no doctors applying to fill the gap. | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . Should read highly trained nurses . That already happens. We now have nurse practitioners. My GP service would be on its knees without them, following the retirement of one of the GPs and no doctors applying to fill the gap." Just like when you check-in to a premier inn or HI Express where the staff double as check-in for front desk, and then nip round the corner and serve you a drink at the bar area.... | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . Hardly trained nurses???????? From the countless millions that go toward wars....MPs salaries etc etc.. The spending on defence is probably crucial unless we are happy to take the. risk of counties walking all over us . " . Stop being such a good damn shepple and buying into all the fear propaganda. Russia isn't going to attack the UK... Only the other, after the Panama leak, we've now discovered Putin and his buds have been buying up hundreds of millions of pounds worth of London properties. London will be the last place he bombs as it's now their retirement fund! | |||
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"Continue here: They are going on strike over the new contract being imposed by the health secretary jeremey hunt. It starts tomorrow 8am and goes on until 5pm the same day. Then it resumes 8am on wednesday and finishes 5pm that day. What do you think of them going on strike? I think it is good cos they need a good contract, although it is not fair on the patients as they are running a limit service.. We probably need to analyse in detail what exactly Doctors do and are their skills being used effectively . Could some of the work be done more effectively by hardly trained nurses at a lower cost ?. Interesting those who support strike action have made no mention of where the extra funds will come from the pay Doctors extra . Should read highly trained nurses . That already happens. We now have nurse practitioners. My GP service would be on its knees without them, following the retirement of one of the GPs and no doctors applying to fill the gap. Just like when you check-in to a premier inn or HI Express where the staff double as check-in for front desk, and then nip round the corner and serve you a drink at the bar area...." Not quite that yet. So far the practice still has reception staff. | |||
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"On one side are highly trained professionals who spend huge amounts of time studying at school to achieve the results to get into med school, then spend huge amounts of time studying at a level many would struggle with, working long shifts to learn on the job so they can qualify into a job with even longer shifts to help people they've never met. On the other side there are those who have no formal training for their role and rarely have any real knowledge of the areas they're tasked to manage. This same group have awarded themselves at least two double digit pay increases in the last few years while cutting or freezing pay elsewhere- are while enjoying an expenses package no company could sustain even if they were allowed to play by the same rules. Hands up who saw the extensive news coverage about the illegal practices used by the tories to gain seats last year, without which they wouldn't have got in yo power? Not many hands? Maybe because they're friends run the media outlets? Hunt is a lying, odious, devisive little turd- doing his best to achieve the government goal of collapsing the NHS so it can be privatised. Once it's gone, it's gone- no more free at source health care. We're already getting crippled by the TTIP projects to date, once the NHS is no longer a national resource you might want to avoid being ill unless you have very deep pockets. I know which side I'm backing all day long! ". Where does it state that the government want to privitise the health service ? It was my understanding that the current government want to provide a top quality health service and are currently spending more money on it that the previous government . I assume this is why they achieved more votes than any other party | |||
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"People can you stop calling "doctors" "junior doctors" please it's doing my head in Do you say I'm going to see a "junior doctor" or do you say doctor ? That is all " But they are junior doctors... | |||
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" . Where does it state that the government want to privitise the health service ?
It was my understanding that the current government want to provide a top quality health service and are currently spending more money on it that the previous government . I assume this is why they achieved more votes than any other party "I just don't know where to start with this. ....I can't tell if you believe what you have written or are taking the piss. | |||
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"On one side are highly trained professionals who spend huge amounts of time studying at school to achieve the results to get into med school, then spend huge amounts of time studying at a level many would struggle with, working long shifts to learn on the job so they can qualify into a job with even longer shifts to help people they've never met. On the other side there are those who have no formal training for their role and rarely have any real knowledge of the areas they're tasked to manage. This same group have awarded themselves at least two double digit pay increases in the last few years while cutting or freezing pay elsewhere- are while enjoying an expenses package no company could sustain even if they were allowed to play by the same rules. Hands up who saw the extensive news coverage about the illegal practices used by the tories to gain seats last year, without which they wouldn't have got in yo power? Not many hands? Maybe because they're friends run the media outlets? Hunt is a lying, odious, devisive little turd- doing his best to achieve the government goal of collapsing the NHS so it can be privatised. Once it's gone, it's gone- no more free at source health care. We're already getting crippled by the TTIP projects to date, once the NHS is no longer a national resource you might want to avoid being ill unless you have very deep pockets. I know which side I'm backing all day long! . Where does it state that the government want to privitise the health service ?
It was my understanding that the current government want to provide a top quality health service and are currently spending more money on it that the previous government . I assume this is why they achieved more votes than any other party "Pat, stop it.. quoting from Tory central office makes you look like a clone or a person unable to look at an issue objectively and the NHS is for all of us a big issue.. speak to people at the coal face, Nurses, Doctors, back room staff, community nurses etc and they will tell you what is happening now and has been for a while.. the shortages in staffing, wards and in some cases whole hospitals closing .. ps, i would say the same where you quoting 'new Labour'.. the issue's are not the fault of the junior Doctor's, the same rhetoric and blame will be attached to the next group that this Government goes after.. | |||
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"People can you stop calling "doctors" "junior doctors" please it's doing my head in Do you say I'm going to see a "junior doctor" or do you say doctor ? That is all But they are junior doctors..." So next time you phone up the doctors surgery do you ask for an appointment with a junior doctor or a doctor ? | |||
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"People can you stop calling "doctors" "junior doctors" please it's doing my head in Do you say I'm going to see a "junior doctor" or do you say doctor ? That is all But they are junior doctors... So next time you phone up the doctors surgery do you ask for an appointment with a junior doctor or a doctor ?" A doctor I imagine. Ummmm maybe take this issue up with whoever named them junior doctors? ? | |||
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"On one side are highly trained professionals who spend huge amounts of time studying at school to achieve the results to get into med school, then spend huge amounts of time studying at a level many would struggle with, working long shifts to learn on the job so they can qualify into a job with even longer shifts to help people they've never met. On the other side there are those who have no formal training for their role and rarely have any real knowledge of the areas they're tasked to manage. This same group have awarded themselves at least two double digit pay increases in the last few years while cutting or freezing pay elsewhere- are while enjoying an expenses package no company could sustain even if they were allowed to play by the same rules. Hands up who saw the extensive news coverage about the illegal practices used by the tories to gain seats last year, without which they wouldn't have got in yo power? Not many hands? Maybe because they're friends run the media outlets? Hunt is a lying, odious, devisive little turd- doing his best to achieve the government goal of collapsing the NHS so it can be privatised. Once it's gone, it's gone- no more free at source health care. We're already getting crippled by the TTIP projects to date, once the NHS is no longer a national resource you might want to avoid being ill unless you have very deep pockets. I know which side I'm backing all day long! . Where does it state that the government want to privitise the health service ?
It was my understanding that the current government want to provide a top quality health service and are currently spending more money on it that the previous government . I assume this is why they achieved more votes than any other party
Pat, stop it..
quoting from Tory central office makes you look like a clone or a person unable to look at an issue objectively and the NHS is for all of us a big issue..
speak to people at the coal face, Nurses, Doctors, back room staff, community nurses etc and they will tell you what is happening now and has been for a while..
the shortages in staffing, wards and in some cases whole hospitals closing ..
ps, i would say the same where you quoting 'new Labour'..
the issue's are not the fault of the junior Doctor's, the same rhetoric and blame will be attached to the next group that this Government goes after.. ". I thought that an objective look would be matching resources available with the funds available . I can only reiterate that it is my understanding that the present government are spending more on the NHS than the previous one . I also do talk to people on the front line to use your terminolgy . What needs to be done is to analyse every task undertaken by Doctors ?. Are all these task necessary or could we use other resources such as nurses to undertake them?. The electorate expressed their opinion of the NHS at the last election . My opinion is irrelevant , what matters is that of the electorate . | |||
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"People can you stop calling "doctors" "junior doctors" please it's doing my head in Do you say I'm going to see a "junior doctor" or do you say doctor ? That is all But they are junior doctors... So next time you phone up the doctors surgery do you ask for an appointment with a junior doctor or a doctor ? A doctor I imagine. Ummmm maybe take this issue up with whoever named them junior doctors? ?" That would be the health minister/media to try and dumb them down, very few refers to themselve as a junior doctor. And people on fab That is all | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. .
Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. "maybe not, but i found it funny.  | |||
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"People can you stop calling "doctors" "junior doctors" please it's doing my head in Do you say I'm going to see a "junior doctor" or do you say doctor ? That is all But they are junior doctors... So next time you phone up the doctors surgery do you ask for an appointment with a junior doctor or a doctor ? A doctor I imagine. Ummmm maybe take this issue up with whoever named them junior doctors? ? That would be the health minister/media to try and dumb them down, very few refers to themselve as a junior doctor. And people on fab That is all " For the sake of the debate it works. I shouldn't imagine they would ever be referred to as junior doctors out in the 'real world' | |||
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. "Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. " "i find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you .." You may agree with one another and not understand my original statement,. But have you ever heard the quote 'hoist by their own petard'? If you have it may give you an idea of how my mind works.  | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. . Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. i find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you ..
You may agree with one another and not understand my original statement,. But have you ever heard the quote 'hoist by their own petard'?
If you have it may give you an idea of how my mind works. ". Only an unbalanced and nasty individual would wish misfortune and ill health on anyone . If I were to wish ill fortune on people I would be seeking help for serious mental health issues . | |||
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" The electorate expressed their opinion of the NHS at the last election . My opinion is irrelevant , what matters is that of the electorate . " The Tories got in on a vote of something like 25% of the 60% of eligible voters that voted, and even then they had to cheat and break the law to win- hardly what you call democracy? You might be of the opinion that we only get a say every 5 years, then sit back and let the government do as they wish until the next election- I'm of the opinion that they should work for us, to do the best job possible for the health, wealth and future of the population, not the wealth, power and ego massaging of a select few! A lot can change over five years, including the reasons people were voted in in the first place. Your opinion might be irrelevant, but mine isn't.....but then again, I don't read The Sun/ Daily Mail/Telegraph etc and swallow the shite they shovel on a daily basis  | |||
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"I support them. My sister is a "Junior" doctor. You all realise this is any Doctor below consultant, right?" Any doctor below consultant and GP | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed." Its not about the money for them, it's about having to work when they are exhausted. You wouldn't want someone making a mistake with your life because of exhaustion, would you? | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. . Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. i find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you ..
You may agree with one another and not understand my original statement,. But have you ever heard the quote 'hoist by their own petard'?
If you have it may give you an idea of how my mind works. "i think many people would agree that wanting someone to die a painful death is a bit irrational given the circumstances.. | |||
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"On one side are highly trained professionals who spend huge amounts of time studying at school to achieve the results to get into med school, then spend huge amounts of time studying at a level many would struggle with, working long shifts to learn on the job so they can qualify into a job with even longer shifts to help people they've never met. On the other side there are those who have no formal training for their role and rarely have any real knowledge of the areas they're tasked to manage. This same group have awarded themselves at least two double digit pay increases in the last few years while cutting or freezing pay elsewhere- are while enjoying an expenses package no company could sustain even if they were allowed to play by the same rules. Hands up who saw the extensive news coverage about the illegal practices used by the tories to gain seats last year, without which they wouldn't have got in yo power? Not many hands? Maybe because they're friends run the media outlets? Hunt is a lying, odious, devisive little turd- doing his best to achieve the government goal of collapsing the NHS so it can be privatised. Once it's gone, it's gone- no more free at source health care. We're already getting crippled by the TTIP projects to date, once the NHS is no longer a national resource you might want to avoid being ill unless you have very deep pockets. I know which side I'm backing all day long! . Where does it state that the government want to privitise the health service ?
It was my understanding that the current government want to provide a top quality health service and are currently spending more money on it that the previous government . I assume this is why they achieved more votes than any other party
Pat, stop it..
quoting from Tory central office makes you look like a clone or a person unable to look at an issue objectively and the NHS is for all of us a big issue..
speak to people at the coal face, Nurses, Doctors, back room staff, community nurses etc and they will tell you what is happening now and has been for a while..
the shortages in staffing, wards and in some cases whole hospitals closing ..
ps, i would say the same where you quoting 'new Labour'..
the issue's are not the fault of the junior Doctor's, the same rhetoric and blame will be attached to the next group that this Government goes after.. . I thought that an objective look would be matching resources available with the funds available . I can only reiterate that it is my understanding that the present government are spending more on the NHS than the previous one .
I also do talk to people on the front line to use your terminolgy .
What needs to be done is to analyse every task undertaken by Doctors ?. Are all these task necessary or could we use other resources such as nurses to undertake them?.
The electorate expressed their opinion of the NHS at the last election .
My opinion is irrelevant , what matters is that of the electorate .
"i dont recall their election manifesto saying they would be imposing new contracts on Junior Doctors..? and given your last point more people agree with the Junior Doctors position than they do Hunts.. | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed. Its not about the money for them, it's about having to work when they are exhausted. You wouldn't want someone making a mistake with your life because of exhaustion, would you?" Why would working a 35/40hr week 'exhaust' doctors more than other people? Pilots work all hours, bus, taxi and train drivers. Are they less responsible for the welfare of their service users? Do you think they should get 60 grand a year? People who get into medicine understand what that involves. | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed. Its not about the money for them, it's about having to work when they are exhausted. You wouldn't want someone making a mistake with your life because of exhaustion, would you? Why would working a 35/40hr week 'exhaust' doctors more than other people? Pilots work all hours, bus, taxi and train drivers. Are they less responsible for the welfare of their service users? Do you think they should get 60 grand a year? People who get into medicine understand what that involves." I'm sure they would love to work 35/40 hours!!!!! | |||
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"I fully support the junior doctors' right to strike over the imposition of new pay and working arrangements. " ditto.. | |||
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"I needed an emergency doctors appointment today. When i phoned up they had lots of appointments available because they are working longer hours today and therefore are able to offer far more appointments to help ease any potential problems in hospitals. If i hadn't been able to see a doctor today then i would have gone to the urgent care centre which in turn might impact on hospitals." . So to clarify you've paid one of the cheapest health costs in the developed world, you rang up today for an emergency?? And you've been seen today?. I fail to see what your complaining about | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed." . Emergency care is taken by A&E, if it's not an "emergency" do you really need to have an appointment to see your doctor at 2am?. You can get an emergency plumber at any time 24 hrs but you'll have to pay extra for it, usually alot extra!. | |||
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"I hope that Jeremy Cunt has a heart attack tomorrow and dies a painful death on a trolley waiting for the Jnr Drs to return to work. . Hardly the statement of a balanced rational person. i find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you ..
You may agree with one another and not understand my original statement,. But have you ever heard the quote 'hoist by their own petard'?
If you have it may give you an idea of how my mind works. . Only an unbalanced and nasty individual would wish misfortune and ill health on anyone .
If I were to wish ill fortune on people I would be seeking help for serious mental health issues ."Actually I suffer from manic depression (now called bi polar disorder). As for my original post and the reply my original post being in some way deranged I would point out that it took the provos bombing the hotel that the tory grandees were staying in to get thatcher and her cronies to start meaningful negotiations with the protagonists in NI that led to the Good Friday agreement. So my comment is predicated on the past conduct of the last load of Thatcherite shit when in power. | |||
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"I needed an emergency doctors appointment today. When i phoned up they had lots of appointments available because they are working longer hours today and therefore are able to offer far more appointments to help ease any potential problems in hospitals. If i hadn't been able to see a doctor today then i would have gone to the urgent care centre which in turn might impact on hospitals.. So to clarify you've paid one of the cheapest health costs in the developed world, you rang up today for an emergency?? And you've been seen today?. I fail to see what your complaining about" I wasn't complaining, where did i complain ?? I was simply saying how the health service is coping with the strike in my area !!!! I was showing how well they seem to be coping here ! | |||
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"Give the junior doctors what they want, I say. They might save your life one day. If you don't value that, well..... I'm off for a shower and bed. " | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that " . 100 hrs a week?? 14 and half hours a day 7 days a week... So you had two hours a day free?? . . I can only tell you my own experience, I once worked a job for 6 weeks where we were doing 84hrs a week,7am till 7pm,7 days a week, three physically fit builders collapsed and were taken to hospital after 5 weeks and one had a mental breakdown after finishing the contract. I did three weeks and went home, it was not worth the money!. I often hear this 100 hr week touted, I'm not sure it's possible, even with a desk job | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that " So one Dr says it's OK which negates the hundreds that don't. 100 hours per week....unlikely. I'm sure if they werent making life or death decisions they wouldn't mind working tired after a 36 hour on call shift. | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that " 98% of Junior Doctors would disagree. I am sure that if I wanted I could find a disabled person who would say having benefits cut to fund tax cuts for the top 2% of the countries super rich is a good thing, but I would not give credence their statement either. What I do give credence to is the comment on News at 1 that the dispute with the Junior Doctors is being considered by the government as the same as the miners strike and one that they must win at any cost! We should all remember that at the time of the miners strike Thatchers hatchet men said everything that Scargill and the miners were saying was lies (just like caMorons cronies are saying now). So I guess we are looking at the total destruction of the NHS within the next 10 years going on the tories past history. | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that . 100 hrs a week?? 14 and half hours a day 7 days a week... So you had two hours a day free?? . . I can only tell you my own experience, I once worked a job for 6 weeks where we were doing 84hrs a week,7am till 7pm,7 days a week, three physically fit builders collapsed and were taken to hospital after 5 weeks and one had a mental breakdown after finishing the contract. I did three weeks and went home, it was not worth the money!. I often hear this 100 hr week touted, I'm not sure it's possible, even with a desk job" When I last looked there were 24 hrs in a day . I Milked cows so was out on the farm at 5am and would finish at 7.30 pm depending on the time of year that could be much later, and when calving I could be up half the night, sat and sun there would be less hours between milkings, you just get used to it, I did that for twenty years and now only work 65/70 hrs a wk on average and it feels part time to be honest, thousands in my profession do that and think nothing of it | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that " 54000 junior doctors in the UK, 98% of them opposed to it. You'll always be able to find one for whom it satisfies their own agenda. Some junior doctors who work 9-5 (in research or in a lab) will get a pay rise from it. But they are very rare and selfish too if they don't see that their colleagues slaving away in A&E and on the wards evenings and weekends will get enormous pay cuts. Where are these doctors working 36 hours a week? This new contract will extend hours to staff a fully 7 day NHS with ZERO extra doctors. It's mathematically impossible that it will decrease hours. Long (24+ hour) shifts will increase, not decrease. | |||
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"There was a JD on telly this morning who said he had actually read the whole of the the new contract and was generally happy with it. HE said that they are getting a 13% pay rise and a commitment to less hours worked in a row (ie 48 hr shifts) in exchange they now dont get overtime for saturdays. That to me doesnt sound a bad deal, as for doctors being exhausted after working a 36 wk that is pathetic, in the past I have worked 100 hrs a wk for several years at a time without any trouble, what I would agree with is working for 20 hrs at a stretch is a bad idea but this new contract stops that . 100 hrs a week?? 14 and half hours a day 7 days a week... So you had two hours a day free?? . . I can only tell you my own experience, I once worked a job for 6 weeks where we were doing 84hrs a week,7am till 7pm,7 days a week, three physically fit builders collapsed and were taken to hospital after 5 weeks and one had a mental breakdown after finishing the contract. I did three weeks and went home, it was not worth the money!. I often hear this 100 hr week touted, I'm not sure it's possible, even with a desk job When I last looked there were 24 hrs in a day . I Milked cows so was out on the farm at 5am and would finish at 7.30 pm depending on the time of year that could be much later, and when calving I could be up half the night, sat and sun there would be less hours between milkings, you just get used to it, I did that for twenty years and now only work 65/70 hrs a wk on average and it feels part time to be honest, thousands in my profession do that and think nothing of it" . I was working on 8 hours sleep??. I mean sure I can get by on 6 in normal time but no way could you get by on six doing a 14.5 hour working day consisting of physical work. I've tried it, I've been there got the T-shirt, it's not possible | |||
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" Why would working a 35/40hr week 'exhaust' doctors more than other people? Pilots work all hours, bus, taxi and train drivers..." I know pilots are limited on maximum flying time, which is why on long haul they have a rest room where one can rest while the other supervises the auto pilot. I'm pretty sure those driving 'public transport' are time restricted too, just like truckers with their tachographs and rest periods. Why should a doctor work stupidly long shifts when it's a well known and proven fact that tiredness is a major factor in poor decision making- that decision could be about you or your family. I'm also pretty sure you won't find many doctors on 35/40 hour weeks, even if that's their surgery time, it won't account for the paperwork and other duties | |||
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"Why do people become doctors if they know the pay is crap? It's interesting and fulfilling and top docs get paid a wodge
So what's the strike for then? They knew it was crap but they wanted it "Because some government person who works fixed hours 7 months a year at most! decided that doctors need to work 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no shift allowences or unsociable hours pay. while at the same time not adding extra staff. If they don't strike then every other part of the NHS will be forced into the same deal so they can cut the waiting lists... up until they hit the bed shortage problem which cots more money so won't be resolved. Anyone else noticed how much worse the GP service is since the government imposed cost saving new contracts on them? | |||
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"Why have the Government refused to even consider the very sensible idea to trial the new contracts across a few Trusts first in order to assess the impact? There can only be one reason - they know (and in all probability desire) exactly what impact it will have. They just don't want the general public to know. When will the Goverment explain how you can cover many more shifts without increasing staff numbers and it not have a major impact on working hours "Read the proposals being circulated in Conservative Home (website) for the new cheaper NHS. | |||
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"Give the junior doctors what they want, I say. They might save your life one day. If you don't value that, well..... I'm off for a shower and bed. " I agree with you | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed." | |||
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"The daily fail headlined "don't get I'll tomorrow" yesterday Drs reply "Dear general public. Please, please, please, if you are sick tomorrow, COME TO HOSPITAL. At my site, all non urgent work is cancelled so that: The Emergency department will be staffed by all the normal ED consultant plus 8 general medical consultants, 2 general surgical consultants, 2 orthopaedic consultants, 1 ENT consultant, 2 paediatric consultants, 1 gynaecology consultant, and 2 consultants from anaesthetics/intensive care. Radiology will be staffed as normal by consultants. Labour ward will have two consultant obstetricians and two consultant anaesthetists. Intensive care will have two consultant intensivists. Every ward will have a named consultant, backed up by a team of floating consultant anaesthetists and specialist physicians to perform advanced diagnostics and invasive therapies. The emergency theatre list will be staffed by consultants, as will the orthopaedic trauma list. Coronary care will have a consultant cardiologist. The paediatric ward will have consultant paediatricians. The resuscitation team will be consultant physicians and anaesthetists with three extra resuscitation officers. There will be extra GPs screening at the front door to filter out those who don't need to be in hospital. The wards will have extra nursing, pharmacy and phlebotomy staff, and extra IT support staff. The only time you will have experienced a hospital this intensely staffed by the top tier is if you're from the Saudi Royal Family. It's safe. Please come (if you're unwell of course). The only time you should really worry about falling ill is if the Tories manage to destroy our beautiful NHS, and you can't afford your private health insurance. And to the twat that signed off on this headline, even you'll be treated well. You'll probably have to pop in to have the rolled up copy of your paper removed from your rectum." " | |||
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"All doctors should work shifts including weekends, evenings and nights including GPs. They get paid far more than most professions who already work unsociable shift hours. Since when did being a doctor entail office hours? Ridiculous. If your aim is to help people then recognise that people need help all hours of the day. Not saying you have to work all hours of the day but help should be available. If GPs didnt clock off at 5, A&E wouldnt be overrun and people wouldnt have to take time off work for appointments saving the economy a huge sum each year. Give doctors great holidays, great pay but make them liable to work when theyre told/needed. "24 hour 7 day a week Shifts requite 4x more staff than 1 shift 5 days a week. so the government via the NHS would be needing to pay for them. GP's used to operate an out of hours 24 hour service until this government forced a new contract on them restricting their hours by replacing out of hours GP service with the 111 service, causing the A&E overload, and ruining the GP service at the same time. Yes doctors can be well paid, but would you want minimum wage call center operators to replace them all (I don't actually know what 111 staff are paid, but I am guessing not a lot) | |||
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