FabSwingers.com forum: Farage and Brexit Boris sink to new low

By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

Boris's rant in The Sun today triggered a reaction.

Nicholas Soames, grandson of Churchill said it was "wrong in just about every aspect"

"Boris Johnson’s comment implying the President of the United States is driven by his ancestral dislike of the British Empire is demeaning to the debate. Using that type of language does not reflect Britain’s standing in the world or the country we aspire to be" Sir Stephen Wall

"The US has an interest in Britain, its closest ally, being stronger, safer and better off in the EU - not weaker, out on its own. To claim that the American president has no right to say what he believes, and speak up for US political, economic and business interests is typical Boris bluff and bluster." Lord Kerr, former Ambassador to the US

Mind you, it IS impressive that Boris can hold down two full time public funded jobs (Mayor of London and MP for Uxbridge & South Ruislip) whilst still finding time to write a column for The Telegraph and now a piece for The Sun.

Farage swiftly followed up with his own extraordinary comments:

"Look, I know his family’s background. Kenya. Colonialism. There is clearly something going on there. It’s just that you know people emerge from colonialism with different views of the Britsh. Some thought that they were really rather benign and rather good, and others saw them as foreign invaders. Obama’s family come from that second school of thought and it hasn’t quite left him yet."

The pair are certainly going all out to win friends internationally.

Will Team Brexit sink still lower over the coming weeks?

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

It's all true, what is your point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's all true, what is your point?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both Boris and Farage have readily given their opinion on politics in other countries over the years.

Goverments often comment on the politics of other nations.

Why is it so terrible now. I bet they wouldnt complain if he supported their argument. Lol

Ps. Lets not forget who owns the Sun and his political views.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think he's saying team out is full of shit and team in are the good guys.

Yer right to be honest they are both full of shit, you just got to read between the lines and try to make up your own mind.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

But we all know that the Remain vote will will - what Boris is up to is positioning himself against Osborne when Cameron steps down.

It's nothing more than that.

Boris doesn't believe in anything other than his own right to rule.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP, the only way you can include Boris and Garage in the same paragraph is by using the term "eccentric."

I am, however, not convinced by Obama's comments. I do side with BoJo on that. I really can't see the USA ever surrendering their sovereignty. He would be better off devoting his efforts to sorting out the problems at home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think he's saying team out is full of shit and team in are the good guys.

Yer right to be honest they are both full of shit, you just got to read between the lines and try to make up your own mind."

Aye the whole thing should be renamed Brexshit, I've heard nowt but shit slinging from both sides.

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By *ustanhonestblokeMan
over a year ago

northampton

For years we have had to put up with politicians telling us their hands are tied by Europe.

They are scared to leave because they will have to make tough decisions without being able to blame someone else. They go on about doing what's best for this country...... but are shitting themselves about running it.

Rant over..... Have a nice weekend all xx

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By *ehind blue eyes38Man
over a year ago

Hunstanton

It will be funny when people go to vote, I. Sure 85% probably don't realise that to vote you have to register again so most won't get a chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Boris would be our version of Berlusconi. Borisconi

Mind you it does sound like a nice biscuit or tart to have with an afternoon coffee.

Would you like a borisconi to go with your americano sir?

Oh the irony lol

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Farage and Johnson are both about the lowest types of vermin plundering the public purse and bordering on sociopathic menaces.

Their is some intelligence and ability there but today's step shows that there are clear limitations and certainly enough to caution any reasonable mind away from blind support.

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"It's all true, what is your point?"

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

low.....what about posh tory boy and George....they will tell u anything /scare anyone to make us stay....both out of a job within 24hrs of the result

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

As an aside, if Americans were told that each of their states were going to give control to an unelected council, that in a few years time that (unelected) council (one superstate) will be making all decisions , I wonder how many American's would vote yes?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

not really a surprise that they choose to play the race card, bit early maybe..

sure it won't be the last..

by all means challenge Obama on some of the issue's he raised but they both just make their own positions look shallow and a tad desperate..

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

This kind of daftness is spreading faster than the Zika virus and reminds of the pre indyref ScotNats. They were convinced that their world was one servitude and slavery to Westminster and that in the event of Independance - in Scotland, the sun would shine brighter, the air would feel cleaner and they would all be instantly wealthier as soon as they were rid of the hated English.

The UK is NOT in penal servitude to Europe, we are not in slavery and we are not poorer because of the close association that we have with our European cousins.

The only issue that counts is how we as individuals will be better off, or worse off on a day to day basis - everything else is geo political economic bullshit that will never touch us personally if we lived to be 1000 years old.

I just cannot take the Brexit camp seriously when their only real arguments revolve around "the foreigner" issue or browbeating nationalist cries citing making Britain "Great" again (without even crediting Donald Trump for the line), Independance and freedom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

The EU dosnt make all the decisions does it? It is also actually responsible for some pretty good things.

All American states have ceded some sovereignty to the House of representatives, the Senate, The supreme court, the President. Individual states make up the 'United States of America'.

Every time any country signs a treaty or agreement with another country they cede some sovereignty. International law involves giving up your rights to eg invade....kill civilians....reaching agreements on the quality of everything from drug trials to aeronautical grade aluminium means compromising and ceding the right to make a lower quality product. Being a member of Nato takes away some of our Sovereign rights yet also brings benefits. Giving sovereinty up isnt always a bad thing and is in fact a necessary part of any international agreement.

Just because some one is elected dosnt make them a good leader or represtative. George Bush....Hitler....Boris ....George Galloway....Berlusconi were all elected.

I cant believe Im being sucked into this lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

The UK is NOT in penal servitude to Europe, we are not in slavery and we are not poorer because of the close association that we have with our European cousins.

I agree with what you say, but the bullshit is coming from both sides.

It's far too serious an issue for politics and celebrity, if you can call them that, politicians.

It's far more important than immigration and making the country 'great' again, if ever.

As an individual I want decisions made for me by a democratic government that I at least had the opportunity to vote in.

Which is more than I get from the EU. A bunch of faceless bureaucrats that nobody can name nor ever voted for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

The EU dosnt make all the decisions does it? It is also actually responsible for some pretty good things.

All American states have ceded some sovereignty to the House of representatives, the Senate, The supreme court, the President. Individual states make up the 'United States of America'.

Just because some one is elected dosnt make them a good leader or represtative. George Bush....Hitler....Boris ....George Galloway....Berlusconi were all elected.

I cant believe Im being sucked into this lol

Google list of international conventions unsigned or unratified by USA. It will give you some idea of how uncooperative the USA is in international affairs. It is a proud and independent nation. Not always a good thing to be.

And, yes, giving our sovereignty up is a bad thing.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I think more of Obama's opinions than I do of BoJo's or UKIP's. But then I think more of anyone's opinions than theirs, except Cameron's and Osbourne's. I choose to make my own mind up.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Boris's rant in The Sun today triggered a reaction.

Nicholas Soames, grandson of Churchill said it was "wrong in just about every aspect"

Farage swiftly followed up with his own extraordinary comments:

The pair are certainly going all out to win friends internationally.

Will Team Brexit sink still lower over the coming weeks?"

It's a bit rich really to accuse the Brexit side of racism, when David Cameron of the remain side made a racist comment about Sadiq Khan in the London mayor election just the other day. Also issues of anti semitism going around in the Labour party which Jeremy Corbyn doesn't really seem to be doing much about. He who casts the first stone and all that and maybe people in glass Houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both Boris and Farage have readily given their opinion on politics in other countries over the years.

Goverments often comment on the politics of other nations.

Why is it so terrible now. I bet they wouldnt complain if he supported their argument. Lol

Ps. Lets not forget who owns the Sun and his political views."
i doubt people care what his opinions are

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's all true, what is your point?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

As for Obama, he is a failed, lame duck President who after EIGHT years still hasn't managed to shut Guantanamo Bay when it was the first Presidential Order he signed as President! What he is doing though is batting for American business interests, specifically the TTIP wherein ruthless American commercial interests will be legally trampling all over the lazy, pampered EU bureaucrats in trade negotiations.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both Boris and Farage have readily given their opinion on politics in other countries over the years.

Goverments often comment on the politics of other nations.

Why is it so terrible now. I bet they wouldnt complain if he supported their argument. Lol

Ps. Lets not forget who owns the Sun and his political views. i doubt people care what his opinions are"

His paper is a massive tool (lol) for manipulating public opinion. Murdoch wants press derugulation...he has a right wing agenda ....look at fox news in the USA.....without EU rules he would find goverment a lot more maleable to his business desires.

I think being aware of his agenda is important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's funny how people are offended by the opinion of the President of the United States, but have no problem with the opinions of the Australian born, US citizen media mogul for whose newspapers Boris writes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

The EU dosnt make all the decisions does it? It is also actually responsible for some pretty good things.

All American states have ceded some sovereignty to the House of representatives, the Senate, The supreme court, the President. Individual states make up the 'United States of America'.

Just because some one is elected dosnt make them a good leader or represtative. George Bush....Hitler....Boris ....George Galloway....Berlusconi were all elected.

I cant believe Im being sucked into this lol

And, yes, giving our sovereignty up is a bad thing. "

So we shouldnt have any international agreements with any other country or organisation?

No nuclear non proliferation treaty.....no moratorium on testing nuclear weapons......no bans on selling weapons to north korea.

All of these give away some sovereignty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both Boris and Farage have readily given their opinion on politics in other countries over the years.

Goverments often comment on the politics of other nations.

Why is it so terrible now. I bet they wouldnt complain if he supported their argument. Lol

Ps. Lets not forget who owns the Sun and his political views. i doubt people care what his opinions are

I think being aware of his agenda is important."
.

Let's start with being honest about it.

They've lied, tapped phones, bribed and basically run rough shod over every law going in the papers own interests!.

Cameron is up to his neck in Murdoch chummyness along with all the other top brass Tories and LABOUR mps... What we've all suspected for years and worse has all come out as true... And not one fucking thing has been done to Murdoch's business by anyone including the EU or Obama, in fact every day they bend over backwards for him.

So let's cut this shit that somebody out there in high up power gives a rat's ass about poor folk being "propagandised" by rich media types

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe Boris was actually born in the states and holds dual nationality/passport. If that's the case then I think he is probably best placed to comment on what Obama had to say.

The EU dosnt make all the decisions does it? It is also actually responsible for some pretty good things.

All American states have ceded some sovereignty to the House of representatives, the Senate, The supreme court, the President. Individual states make up the 'United States of America'.

Just because some one is elected dosnt make them a good leader or represtative. George Bush....Hitler....Boris ....George Galloway....Berlusconi were all elected.

I cant believe Im being sucked into this lol

And, yes, giving our sovereignty up is a bad thing.

So we shouldnt have any international agreements with any other country or organisation?

No nuclear non proliferation treaty.....no moratorium on testing nuclear weapons......no bans on selling weapons to north korea.

All of these give away some sovereignty.

Not at all. But I don't believe that the EU should be the arbiter of our legal system.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"So let's cut this shit that somebody out there in high up power gives a rat's ass about poor folk being "propagandised" by rich media types"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It will be funny when people go to vote, I. Sure 85% probably don't realise that to vote you have to register again so most won't get a chance.

You don't have to do a separate special registration, you just have to be registered to vote. There are local and PCC elections in most places in May, so people should be making sure they're registered for those anyway. And they should have checked last year for the general election too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny how people are offended by the opinion of the President of the United States, but have no problem with the opinions of the Australian born, US citizen media mogul for whose newspapers Boris writes."

I don't know why everyone is having such a fit about Obama, I'll probably still vote to leave but he's entitled to express his views. What would be his motivation for saying he thought leaving was a bad idea unless he actually believes it?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez. "

yep, those mega rich American companies, corporations and conglomerates who have Obama in their back pockets must be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of buying up large chunks of our NHS, privatising it and then making some very large profits from it at our expense. Same old story the rich keep getting richer while the ordinary folk get fucked over in the process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I cant work out how to cut and paste just the bit I want lol

I dont think the EU is the arbitor of our legal system. There are some rules we have that definately exist because if our membership. There are also rules whuch apply to our shipping because we have signed up to the International Maritime Organisation.

Being part of a community is a compromise for countries as it is for individuals.

As individuals we give up our right to kill and steal because we are part of a society with rules and laws.

I think that on the whole as individuals and as a country we are better off as part of a society.

Personally I want to stay and reform it.

Its such a gambke to leave with nonroad map or business plan for the future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both the above seem like pretty intelligent comments to me.

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By *r and mrs sanddancerCouple
over a year ago

BOLDON COLLIERY

"It will be funny when people go to vote, I. Sure 85% probably don't realise that to vote you have to register again so most won't get a chance.

no you don't if you are registered for the normal voting that is all you need

from the gov info

Can I vote in the EU referendum?

You can vote in this referendum if you are registered to vote in the UK, are 18 or over on 23 June 2016 and are:

A British or Irish citizen living in the UK, or

A Commonwealth citizen living in the UK who has leave to remain in the UK or who does not require leave to remain in the UK

A British citizen living overseas who has been registered to vote in the UK in the last 15 years

An Irish citizen living overseas who was born in Northern Ireland and who has been registered to vote in Northern Ireland in the last 15 years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I cant work out how to cut and paste just the bit I want lol

Being part of a community is a compromise for countries as it is for individuals.

As individuals we give up our right to kill and steal because we are part of a society with rules and laws.

I think that on the whole as individuals and as a country we are better off as part of a society.

Personally I want to stay and reform it.

Its such a gambke to leave with nonroad map or business plan for the future.

I think we saw what "reform" was possible. Mr Cameron did not manage much.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Team Brexit sink still lower over the coming weeks?"

The answer is yes.

What's odd is how many Brexiters don't realise that Boris doesn't even want out of the EU himself, he's just hoping to speed Cameron's exit by any means possible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

2. Cameron is not an able politician on the international stage. His tactics and strategy for achieving reform were short sighted and poor. Internationally his interventions have been limited and achieved little. Another example is Libyia.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Team Brexit sink still lower over the coming weeks?

The answer is yes.

What's odd is how many Brexiters don't realise that Boris doesn't even want out of the EU himself, he's just hoping to speed Cameron's exit by any means possible. "

You can almost smell the the sweaty aroma of the 'Naked ambition' aftershave he splashes on every morning

Personally I find the smell repugnant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

He is able enough. The EU system is entrenched in political union. He could not have done any better than he did.

But what he achieved was crap and anyone thinking that we can reform from the inside is a tad over ambitious.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

He is able enough. The EU system is entrenched in political union. He could not have done any better than he did.

But what he achieved was crap and anyone thinking that we can reform from the inside is a tad over ambitious."

To reform something, it has to recognise that it needs reforming!

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though."

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?"

Because he was drawing attention to it specifically to appeal to the sort of knuckle dragging racists who are stupid enough to think that Obama hates Great Britain, and no other reason. And there are plenty of them supporting the Leave campaign, naturally.

Unless you are honestly suggesting that because Obama's father was anti-British, somehow so is he? And he is opining that we are better off in the EU to get back at us?

Because Boris Johnson doesn't believe that for a single second.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

He is able enough. The EU system is entrenched in political union. He could not have done any better than he did.

But what he achieved was crap and anyone thinking that we can reform from the inside is a tad over ambitious.

To reform something, it has to recognise that it needs reforming!"

I must disagree

Cameron is not an able politician. His opponents in the uk were Milliband and co. Even Labour supporters deserted them. On the internatiinal stage he is 3rd rate and a poor representative for our country.

We didnt really try hard enough to reform it. He moaned a bit and said please help me because Im under a bit of political pressure at home. I agree that he returned with pretty much nothing worth while. However it was probably what he deserved given the lack of ambition, talent, effort and politcal ability that he put in.

I travel a lot for work and talk to people across Europe. There is a wide consensus that it needs reform. We and our politicians have to be smarter about how we achieve it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

He is able enough. The EU system is entrenched in political union. He could not have done any better than he did.

But what he achieved was crap and anyone thinking that we can reform from the inside is a tad over ambitious.

To reform something, it has to recognise that it needs reforming!

I must disagree

I travel a lot for work and talk to people across Europe. There is a wide consensus that it needs reform. We and our politicians have to be smarter about how we achieve it.

But it is too late. That is the extent of the reform.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?

Unless you are honestly suggesting that because Obama's father was anti-British, somehow so is he? And he is opining that we are better off in the EU to get back at us?

Because Boris Johnson doesn't believe that for a single second.

He has refused in the past to meet British politicians and at the start of his reign as President he took an anti British stance on several issues. Are you honestly trying to say that his father had absolutely no influence on his child when he brought him up?

an extremely naive opinion for you to have.

Incidentally I have no admiration for Boris, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth

So because of his desire for power Boris joins the side that has the lesser of two chances to win, if the out side loses just how is that going to increase his chance of leading the Tory party ?

One thing no journo seems to ask DC is if the EU is now so great compared to leaving why did he say if he didnt get what he wanted during his famed renegotiating he would recommend us to leave, does anyone claim that he got anything of worth from those talks?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?

Unless you are honestly suggesting that because Obama's father was anti-British, somehow so is he? And he is opining that we are better off in the EU to get back at us?

Because Boris Johnson doesn't believe that for a single second.

an extremely naive opinion for you to have.

Incidentally I have no admiration for Boris, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. "

Regardless of your stance on Boris, admirable as it is, what would be extremely naive is to attempt to parlay any of your 'examples' into the inference that Boris Johnson has made in The Sun, for money, to satisfy his boss Rupert Murdoch, by rallying racists to the Leave cause.

In answer to your question, I imagine that Obama's father had lots of influence on him as a child. Most fathers do. What you may not have noticed is that he is no longer a child, but a fully grown man, who happens to be President of the USA.

Or are you just your dad's opinions with less wrinkles?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain."

...and Jeremy Corbyn's brother is voting to leave. Families eh, who'd have em?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"So because of his desire for power Boris joins the side that has the lesser of two chances to win, if the out side loses just how is that going to increase his chance of leading the Tory party ?

Basically Cameron said that because he is full of shit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many years ago, a small boy tossed and turned his way through a restless African night. His father had spent the day in his usual manner, cursing those damn redcoats and instilling the obsessive hatred he held in his heart into the psyche of his son.

"One day, son", he opined, "You will be a great man, Inshallah - and my unreasonable dislike of those damn English oppressors will be in your hands. If only you could be President of America....and, one day, persuade them against all rational reasoning, to remain with an evil International trading organisation, then my work will not have been in vain".

"One day, father, one day"

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?

Unless you are honestly suggesting that because Obama's father was anti-British, somehow so is he? And he is opining that we are better off in the EU to get back at us?

Because Boris Johnson doesn't believe that for a single second.

an extremely naive opinion for you to have.

Incidentally I have no admiration for Boris, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

Or are you just your dad's opinions with less wrinkles?"
either he was influenced by his father or he wasn't, make your mind up

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Hants smiles

You are right about Cameron not managing to get much in the way of reform. There are two aspects to that:

1. Reform will not be easy. There is no point in disputing that.

It wont be easy to reform but I still think its the better of the two options. At least we know what we have. If we leave we have nothing more than hope.

The argument should be reform or exit not stay or exit. Thats another sign of what a poor politician Cameron really is.

He is able enough. The EU system is entrenched in political union. He could not have done any better than he did.

But what he achieved was crap and anyone thinking that we can reform from the inside is a tad over ambitious.

To reform something, it has to recognise that it needs reforming!

I must disagree

I travel a lot for work and talk to people across Europe. There is a wide consensus that it needs reform. We and our politicians have to be smarter about how we achieve it.

Many of the European heads of state thought they gave away too much to Cameron. Merkel admitted it. The people here know Cameron asked for nothing and came away with less than nothing. All the EU are focused on is ever closer political union and closer monetary union. We are different we don't want any part of that, they will press on without us and as they integrate more into a united states of Europe our influence will dwindle even more. Sorry but the EU is unreformable.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain.

...and Jeremy Corbyn's brother is voting to leave. Families eh, who'd have em?

I thought the general consensus was Boris really wanted to stay?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain.

...and Jeremy Corbyn's brother is voting to leave. Families eh, who'd have em?

I thought the general consensus was Boris really wanted to stay?"

Nah, Boris has been anti EU for years. He has remained consistent in his view and stuck to his principles, put his country before his party, unlike the u-turn Corbyn did on his anti EU stance when he put party before country.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though.

Obamas father was a Kenyan allied to the Mau Mau uprising and was anti British, how is it racist to point that out?

Unless you are honestly suggesting that because Obama's father was anti-British, somehow so is he? And he is opining that we are better off in the EU to get back at us?

Because Boris Johnson doesn't believe that for a single second.

an extremely naive opinion for you to have.

Incidentally I have no admiration for Boris, i wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

Or are you just your dad's opinions with less wrinkles?either he was influenced by his father or he wasn't, make your mind up"

If you can't divine my opinion from my written words, then forget it. I can see that you have acknowledged my point as correct by having to avoid it completely, no more needs to be said.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain.

...and Jeremy Corbyn's brother is voting to leave. Families eh, who'd have em?

I thought the general consensus was Boris really wanted to stay?

I love it that you really believe that! So cute!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If we're judging everyone by their father's views, Boris's dad is voting to remain."

As is his brother

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"It's a bit rich really to accuse the Brexit side of racism, when David Cameron of the remain side made a racist comment about Sadiq Khan in the London mayor election just the other day. Also issues of anti semitism going around in the Labour party which Jeremy Corbyn doesn't really seem to be doing much about. He who casts the first stone and all that and maybe people in glass Houses shouldn't be throwing stones. "

We'd both agree that two wrongs don't make a right (four wrongs in this case). Especially on issues like these.

And you rightly point out some big 'wrongs' from Cameron and the Labour Party.

So I'm sure you want to condem Farage and Brexit Boris for the crass things they said today. Won't you..

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"Nah, Boris has been anti EU for years. He has remained consistent in his view and stuck to his principles, put his country before his party, unlike the u-turn Corbyn did on his anti EU stance when he put party before country. "

That's the same Boris who wrote:

"If we left the EU, we would end this sterile debate, and we would have to recognise that most of our problems are not caused by “Bwussels”, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills, a culture of easy gratification and underinvestment in both human and physical capital and infrastructure,”

And...

"Here are my first few thoughts on why a rational person might consider staying in the EU.

1 Foreign direct investment. There may be a risk... that international companies and funds could be put off from investing in the UK by the notion that Britain has somehow cut itself off from a giant European market.

2 Widgets. We may be putting UK firms at a long-term disadvantage if we are no longer able to influence the setting of standards and regulations in Brussels. There may be a risk, if we leave, that our partners would be so piqued and irrational as to try to stitch things up against us.

3 Global influence. The EU is arguably better placed to strike trade deals with the US, or China, than the UK on its own...

4 Perception of UK. It is often said that our strategic significance for the Americans or the Chinese depends on our membership of the EU; though, again, this is untested. More generally, there is a risk that leaving the EU will be globally interpreted as a narrow, xenophobic, backward-looking thing to do."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Boris for King. Whatever Boris goes with I go with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Boris for King. Whatever Boris goes with I go with

Ruin? Hell?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Boris for King. Whatever Boris goes with I go with

Ruin? Hell? "

That was overly harsh but I really wanted to make that joke

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

That's the same Boris who wrote:

And...

"Here are my first few thoughts on why a rational person might consider staying in the EU.

3 Global influence. The EU is arguably better placed to strike trade deals with the US, or China, than the UK on its own...

I've even heard him speak in favour of the EU in his first term as Mayor. How things change, eh?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

We'd both agree that two wrongs don't make a right (four wrongs in this case). Especially on issues like these.

And you rightly point out some big 'wrongs' from Cameron and the Labour Party.

So I'm sure you want to condem Farage and Brexit Boris for the crass things they said today. Won't you.."

It was you who started this thread mud slinging at the Leave side. If you think the other 2 examples I gave are equally bad I'm wondering why you didn't start threads about them too? But we all know that they don't fit in with your remain in EU narrative.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Boris has been pro the EU for years and its only these past few weeks he has changed ships, wonder why..?

also i would imagine the remain campaign wondering when they will run with it but they don't need to yet as with today's remarks he's doing the Brexit campaign no favours by his own mouth..

even John Redwood didn't want to try and explain it on 5 live this evening..

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

We'd both agree that two wrongs don't make a right (four wrongs in this case). Especially on issues like these.

And you rightly point out some big 'wrongs' from Cameron and the Labour Party.

So I'm sure you want to condem Farage and Brexit Boris for the crass things they said today. Won't you..

Oh come on! You never start anything that doesn't fit with your Brexit EU narrative. This seems to extend to defending the indefensible now.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

They will not sink as low as Camaron and Osbourne already have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?"

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU. "

Ah you've ditched your love affair with the super rich Trump to have a go at American businesses. Well done. Now what sort of trade deals are your boys going to get once you and they have finished insulting your proposed trading partners? Weren't they (the Americans) amongst the most important easy catches for project fantasy trade agreements on successful brexit?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

We need a USA trade deal that will protect the NHS, we need British representatives to do that for us. Not the EU TTIP deal negotiated by faceless eurocrats that doesn't give a damn about individual British priorities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

A year ago the us and Europe negotiators issued a statement. It "confirmed that US and EU trade agreements do not prevent governments, at any level, from providing or supporting services in areas such as water, education, health, and social services.

Furthermore, no EU or US trade agreement requires governments to privatise any service, or prevents governments from expanding the range of services they supply to the public. Moreover, these agreements do not prevent governments from providing public services previously supplied by private service suppliers; contracting a public service to private providers does not mean that it becomes irreversibly part of the commercial sector."

I don't think your faceless masters on project fantasy are keeping you up to speed with their propaganda feed.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

I don't think your faceless masters on project fantasy are keeping you up to speed with their propaganda feed."

Well considering you admitted some time ago on this forum that you subscribe to the guardian newspaper I'm surprised you've not read about the warnings the Guardian have been writing about with regard to TTIP. Also the Labour party and Trade unions have been very vocal about the dangers TTIP poses too as well as a whole host of other political commentators and other sources, maybe you need to do more research on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

I don't think your faceless masters on project fantasy are keeping you up to speed with their propaganda feed.

I'm afraid you're mixing me up with someone else, I don't subscribe to the guardian. But that's typical of your cavalier approach to the truth. I assume that you chose the wrong piece of cut and paste from your faceless masters - you should have used the one for people who don't subscribe to the guardian.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

I don't think your faceless masters on project fantasy are keeping you up to speed with their propaganda feed.

No, not confusing you with anyone else, you definately said you subscribed to the Guardian on here before.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why all the fuss??

at the end of the day the UK will still remain in EU and America's interests & ownership of Trident will still continue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the polls say neck and neck then Brexit will win easily. They are a lot more likely to actually vote. Hence the panicking PM

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Cameron, Osborne/New Labour Remain team propaganda was at the sewer level weeks ago.

So not only will our laws be made in Brussels, thanks to the sloppy, corrupt EU incompetents our terms of trade will be written in Washington.

And who knows, Cameron may already have thanked Obama for his 'support'... with a nice villa in ST Tropez.

Are you talking about Mr Trump, your favourite American businessman, there?

No I'm talking about what TTIP will allow American companies to do to our NHS and other public services if we stay in the EU.

I don't think your faceless masters on project fantasy are keeping you up to speed with their propaganda feed.

No, not confusing you with anyone else, you definately said you subscribed to the Guardian on here before. "

That's another thing to add to an ever increasing list of things that you say definitely happened That did not happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it fascinating that tpeople are saying the president of the most powerful nation on earth opinions dosent matter and he just doesn't like Britain ...if instead his words were lets invade England all of you would take his opinion very seriously so why not take it now ...you dont have to agree with the man but people who are saying he had no right in English affairs is just foolish ...if the American president in the 1940s didn't intervene in British affairs this whole thread would be in German

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"why all the fuss??

at the end of the day the UK will still remain in EU and America's interests & ownership of Trident will still continue

It's a tough job, trying to help you on to the right side of the truth.....

The US doesn't own our Trident missiles, though it does undertake the repair and maintenance of them,

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I find it fascinating that tpeople are saying the president of the most powerful nation on earth opinions dosent matter and he just doesn't like Britain ...if instead his words were lets invade England all of you would take his opinion very seriously so why not take it now ...you dont have to agree with the man but people who are saying he had no right in English affairs is just foolish ...if the American president in the 1940s didn't intervene in British affairs this whole thread would be in German"

Germany, France, and others in the EU have threatened to cut us off if we leave... now it's Obama's turn.... even though he will have nothing to do with it, and couldn't even close down Guantanamo... the first thing he was going to do as the most powerful man in the world.

The American president didn't intervene in British affairs in the 40's... they were attacked by Japan, and had no choice but to fight in WW2. If Germany had invaded England before Pearl Harbour, they would have let us rot. American companies were making fortunes well into the second world war by dealing with the Nazi war machine. Then, when they did join the allies, they charged us for everything.... we only recently finished paying off the USA for WW2.

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

We'd both agree that two wrongs don't make a right (four wrongs in this case). Especially on issues like these.

And you rightly point out some big 'wrongs' from Cameron and the Labour Party.

So I'm sure you want to condem Farage and Brexit Boris for the crass things they said today. Won't you..

Shame. I can't find emoticons of a pot or a kettle.

It's a very funny reply though. You love to dish it out the Brexit propaganda.....but you're not so good when confronted by some reality though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the polls say neck and neck then Brexit will win easily. They are a lot more likely to actually vote. Hence the panicking PM"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah ... and where is Germany now?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country"

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

That's the same Boris who wrote:

And...

"Here are my first few thoughts on why a rational person might consider staying in the EU.

3 Global influence. The EU is arguably better placed to strike trade deals with the US, or China, than the UK on its own...

Why must you make up these horrible lies! Everyone knows that Boris Johnson has been anti-EU for years, rather than seeing it as an opportune political stratagem for his own personal advancement, like almost every other senior Leave campaigner.

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By *hingford manMan
over a year ago

highams park East London

Oh and Cameron and his cronies would never sink to a level of telling lies now would they

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU. "

Hey Centaur, now you are in this thread, what do you think of Boris' pro-EU arguments above? As he has supposedly been anti-EU for years according to...well, you of all people, what's the story with that? Has he had an astonishing Damascene conversion thanks to Rupert Murdoch's money and the chance of a shot at PM, or is he trying to subvert the Leave campaign from within?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Oh and Cameron and his cronies would never sink to a level of telling lies now would they"

Of course they would lie! They are senior Tories, that's the default state. It's when you catch them telling the truth that you really have to worry!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's the same Boris who wrote:

And...

"Here are my first few thoughts on why a rational person might consider staying in the EU.

3 Global influence. The EU is arguably better placed to strike trade deals with the US, or China, than the UK on its own...

And everyone knows that Corbyn has been anti EU for years. Well, except maybe you

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

Bojo has been writing anti EU columns in newspapers for years, so yeah stands to reason and logic that he has been anti EU for years, but simple reason and logic seems beyond your comprehension doesn't it.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

What's also beautiful about those Boris quotes is that he correctly recognises that leaving the EU would be seen as narrow and xenophobic...and then plays the card of narrow xenophobia himself to appeal to narrow xenophobics in The Sun, the official paper of narrow xenophobia.

Got to love the Leave campaign, it's better than Faulty Towers!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Oh and Cameron and his cronies would never sink to a level of telling lies now would they

Of course they would lie! They are senior Tories, that's the default state. It's when you catch them telling the truth that you really have to worry!"

So you admit Cameron and Osborne and other senior remain in EU tories have told us all a pack of lies then?

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

That's the same Boris who wrote:

And...

"Here are my first few thoughts on why a rational person might consider staying in the EU.

3 Global influence. The EU is arguably better placed to strike trade deals with the US, or China, than the UK on its own...

And everyone knows that Corbyn has been anti EU for years. Well, except maybe you"

You may as well just copy and paste 'please look over there instead!', it would save you a lot of time replying to everything!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

well said.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

Will Centaur ever answer a question? Fab waits with baited breath!

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

They didn't intervene in our affairs. Germany declared war against America. Their president at the time said none of their sons would die fighting for another country

Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

well said."

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

Really, when the most senior public supporter of the Leave campaign says that a rational person would choose to remain in the EU, you've got to wonder at the Brexit mindset.

I heard they have a motivational poster up in the Leave campaign HQ. It says "You don't have to be mad to support Brexit, but it helps!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't here any of them telling Putin or Obama to butt out when their views on Scotland's independence was being voted on in fact it was asked for as part of con dem s strategy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There seems to be a lot of people assuming that the remain vote will win hands down. The audience on Question Time seemed to be pro Brexit and with Dodgy Dave leading the Remain campaign, I think there will be a anti Dave vote, never mind the consequences. Obama's opinion will be read as a favour to Dave and given little credence. There are an awful lot of people who wished they had thought more about their vote last May and will use this to let the fiddling load of elitists know what they really think of them. Boris has gone 'all in' with his Brexit move, so he will be in line when Dodgey has to go because he lost. The ordinary person in the street cares little about trade deals with the US, they are more concerned about the size of the queues out side the food banks and the fact that their job has been under valued by EU policies. There is a underlying mood that we don't rule our selves any more and things must change. I live and run a business in the 'affluent' South East, and I have seen many 'Leave' posters out side of very 'affluent' properties. We may all be in for a shock!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"There seems to be a lot of people assuming that the remain vote will win hands down. The audience on Question Time seemed to be pro Brexit and with Dodgy Dave leading the Remain campaign, I think there will be a anti Dave vote, never mind the consequences. Obama's opinion will be read as a favour to Dave and given little credence. There are an awful lot of people who wished they had thought more about their vote last May and will use this to let the fiddling load of elitists know what they really think of them. Boris has gone 'all in' with his Brexit move, so he will be in line when Dodgey has to go because he lost. The ordinary person in the street cares little about trade deals with the US, they are more concerned about the size of the queues out side the food banks and the fact that their job has been under valued by EU policies. There is a underlying mood that we don't rule our selves any more and things must change. I live and run a business in the 'affluent' South East, and I have seen many 'Leave' posters out side of very 'affluent' properties. We may all be in for a shock!"

I have also noticed the audience on Question time most weeks seems to be getting more louder applause for Leave EU comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have also noticed the audience on Question time most weeks seems to be getting more louder applause for Leave EU comments.

You should get that hearing aid checked out?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But it won't be a shock. Its a certainty as I keep saying

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"Really, when the most senior public supporter of the Leave campaign says that a rational person would choose to remain in the EU, you've got to wonder at the Brexit mindset.

I heard they have a motivational poster up in the Leave campaign HQ. It says "You don't have to be mad to support Brexit, but it helps!"

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU. "

I tell my 10 year old daughter that every day should be a school day. To help today be a school day for you:

Britain never stood alone in WWII. We declared war with France. Ausralia and New Zealand declared war on the same day; South Africa and Canada both within a week. The Soviet Union was at war with Germany some six months before the US entered the war.

I think you'd find, if you could ask them, that not a single American fought to defend British sovereignty. My Dad, who fought in the war and who'se British through and through, tells me that he didn't fight for our democracy or our sovereignty either. He fought to defeat Naziism. So he tells me.

As he fought, he's quite happy that the EU continues to bring peace to Europe and that his grand children won't have to fight....unlike his and his father's generation. So he tells me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany for a good while before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and then Germany declared war on America, that's how USA came into the war.

Once America did get involved they fought (and died) for our freedom, our democracy and our sovereignty. All of which is shamelessly being given away now to Brussels and the EU.

I tell my 10 year old daughter that every day should be a school day. To help today be a school day for you:

As he fought, he's quite happy that the EU continues to bring peace to Europe and that his grand children won't have to fight....unlike his and his father's generation. So he tells me.

The EU has nowt to do with the peace

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My Father and six uncles fought in WW2, two uncles losing their lives to the Germans and Japanese. They fought and died for our freedom, not against an abstract political movement. Had Great Britain not have declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland then none of the Dominion territories would have either. We stood alone - simple.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"My Father and six uncles fought in WW2, two uncles losing their lives to the Germans and Japanese. They fought and died for our freedom, not against an abstract political movement. Had Great Britain not have declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland then none of the Dominion territories would have either. We stood alone - simple."

My Grandfather also fought in the war (he was in the RAF) he survived but his brother who was in the parachute regiment died in operation market garden. Anyway he told me that yes he fought to defeat the nazis, but that also meant it was a fight to defend our freedom, our democracy and for this country to remain sovereign. Not to be given away by politicians to a corrupt and undemocratic political union (the EU). He also always maintained that it was the job of Nato to keep the peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is NATO that has preserved the peace in Europe since 1945, frankly the EU has had little to do with it. During the Balkans crisis the EU was paralysed and incapable of acting to deal with a problem on its own doorstep.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He was a great believer in onions not being worn round the neck, and lost both his arms at the Battle of Frenchman's Armpit in the little known war of the Romanian Peasant's beard in the year of our Lord 1659.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman."

The fact that you would make fun of people's family's who fought (and died) in the war really is beyond the pale. I think it reflects more on yourself than anyone else though. Well done, hope you are proud of yourself.

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman."

You Brexit Taliban are funny. Sad. But very funny. Very touchy too. Not touchy freely, you understand. Just touchy. Like to give it out though.

So the OP on this subject sated that Americans had fought and died in the war to protect (amongst other things) our sovereignty. Clearly a crass and stupid comment. One of quite a long line.

I point out that they didn't. Point out that my Dad (who also fought in the RAF as it happens) didn't fight for any of the things that the OP states people fought the Second World War for...and then some of you break out in hissy fits.

Doesn't change the fact though that my Dad didn't fight to protect British democracy, British sovereignty and actually will vote to Remain.

BTW You are clearly very proud to be descended from the saddle polisher of a not very important person, however distant. Congratulations!

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

They were a great generation, weren't they. Your uncle must have been very brave...that was a terrible battle to have been in. I can see that you are rightly proud of his sacrifice.

I've paid my respects in the past at Arnhem. Very moving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

You Brexit Taliban are funny. Sad. But very funny. Very touchy too. Not touchy freely, you understand. Just touchy. Like to give it out though.

So the OP on this subject sated that Americans had fought and died in the war to protect (amongst other things) our sovereignty. Clearly a crass and stupid comment. One of quite a long line.

Doesn't change the fact though that my Dad didn't fight to protect British democracy, British sovereignty and actually will vote to Remain.

BTW You are clearly very proud to be descended from the saddle polisher of a not very important person, however distant. Congratulations!"

Did your Father fight to prevent Germany invading Great Britain? The primary role of the RAF in the early years of the war. The Battle of Britain and all that?

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

Simple. But complete bollocks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simple. But complete bollocks."

which bit is complete bollocks?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

They were making fun of you not your relatives. That's perfectly fair game and you getting even more pompous about it makes you look even more ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simple. But complete bollocks."

Evidently the Left.... seeks to divide with posts like this.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we will remain prisoners of the EU for decades to follow.

Like anything, if it's only a minority that know best, it's irrelevant, as any referendum is about quantity of votes and nothing more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Simple. But complete bollocks.

Evidently the Left.... seeks to divide with posts like this.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we will remain prisoners of the EU for decades to follow.

Like anything, if it's only a minority that know best, it's irrelevant, as any referendum is about quantity of votes and nothing more "

With a heavy heart I agree with you.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

They were making fun of you not your relatives. That's perfectly fair game and you getting even more pompous about it makes you look even more ridiculous. "

Oh look another troll decides to come out of the woodwork.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You may think that is true but NATOs disagrees with you. They say "An active and effective European Union contributes to the overall security of the Euro-Atlantic area. Therefore the EU is a unique and essential partner for NATO. The two organisations share a majority of members, and all members of both organisations share common values. NATO recognizes the importance of a stronger and more capable European defence. We welcome the entry into force of the Lisbon Treaty, which provides a framework for strengthening the EU’s capacities to address common security challenges."

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim."

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

They were making fun of you not your relatives. That's perfectly fair game and you getting even more pompous about it makes you look even more ridiculous.

Oh look another troll decides to come out of the woodwork.

Coming from you that's rich. Your ukip masters have got their arms so far up your backside that you must be gagging on their fingers as you spout their horseshit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim."

Hey ho whatever. The EU has not a single solitary spread of evidence to suggest that it has any capacity to project military force, as it simply has never done it! NATO on the other hand has a long and distinguished track record of military deployment. I doubt it surprises anyone that NATO is toeing the party line and stating we are better off in the EU. Personally, in this issue independent thought is what is called for not abdicating thinking to Cameron et al.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army? "

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

Yeah of course all those generals in nato are such a push over for the eu to force into the party line. Their strategy was published in 2010 way before the current eu debate. Independent thought is fine after all its a free world, or at least it is in the eu, but you could at least inform yourself of what nato says before claiming the opposite.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

Come on you claim to be an expert in all things EU. Have you not read the five presidents report or did you not hear Jean Claude Junckers references to an EU army?

Rather than answer the question as per usual you attack me personally. Guess you don't have an answer to how Russia, China and North Korea will react towards an EU army then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime."

You should try checking your facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

You should try checking your facts "

The fact is NATO has preserved the peace in Europe, not the EU. Whether the UK remains in the EU or not, NATO will continue to preserve the peace with Putin. Our seat on the UN Security Council is more important to preserving the peace than pouring untold billions of our taxes into creating an EU army which is totally unnecessary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

Come on you claim to be an expert in all things EU. Have you not read the five presidents report or did you not hear Jean Claude Junckers references to an EU army?

Rather than answer the question as per usual you attack me personally. Guess you don't have an answer to how Russia, China and North Korea will react towards an EU army then? "

Actually you're the one who has repeatedly claimed to be an expert on all things eu without managing to be able to show the most basic understanding of how it operates. Yet you still repeat the same lies time and time again.

Now you tell me what nato's view is on working with the eu that's what this little spat started as and I want to read you admitting that nato feels that the eu is a unique and essential partner for NATO. AFter all that's what nato says SO why don't you admit it?

After that you can carry on with ducking and diving as you try to push the other propaganda that ukips fed you. You're well known here for your form for not being able to answer questions.

So come on what does nato say about its relationship with the eu? I'll give you a clue - I've quoted the answer for you already.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

You should try checking your facts

The fact is nato's strategy about the eu, which I quoted, is the opposite of what you claim. They know far more about the need for political and economic stability and how to achieve that than you or I. I'll stick with their view point clearly stated as it was years before the current debate started. Nato seems to think you are wrong. I won't argue with that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

You should try checking your facts

If it makes you feel better I acknowledge that NATO would be happy to see further military spending in Europe. For what it is worth, so do I. The point is do you trust the EU to spend wisely billions of our taxes setting up an army, when as an organisation ran by unelected faceless burocrats they do not have any experience in this field? Furthermore based on the EU's appalling tract record dealing with pretty much anything at all - the migrant crisis springs readily to mind- would we give them another penny to that purpose? I know where I will be putting my cross on the ballet paper.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

You should try checking your facts

What would be better is for you to retract your statement that the eu has had little to do with preserving peace in Europe when nato says the exact opposite.

That would be more truthful wouldn't it? Naturally it wouldn't change your vote, I'm sure nothing would, but that's your business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think I'll stick with nato's point of view. It's absolutely clear and the opposite of your claim.

So tell us all how would Russia and China and North Korea react to the formation of an EU army?

So tell me what's that got to do with the statement that the eu has had little to do with keeping the peace? DON'T you believe nato?

Or is it that you have to push the next set of briefing motes that ukip head office have given you to cut and paste? They must have you on piece work.

You are obviously a stranger to the concept of independent thought. You should try it sometime.

You should try checking your facts

What would be better is for you to retract your statement that the eu has had little to do with preserving peace in Europe when nato says the exact opposite.

That would be more truthful wouldn't it? Naturally it wouldn't change your vote, I'm sure nothing would, but that's your business."

Well NATO and I will have to agree to disagree on this point. Having said that many senior military commanders have equally commented that the peace in Post war Europe was preserved by the presence of NATO. Undoubtedly the EU was able to develop as an organisation because of the peace enjoyed in Europe, but not the other way around. The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *ustCurious9966Man
over a year ago

cambridge

"Think he's saying team out is full of shit and team in are the good guys.

Yer right to be honest they are both full of shit, you just got to read between the lines and try to make up your own mind."

Sadly very true

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace...."

Thank you for pointing out that the year I spent as part of Operation Althea was imaginary; and I am sure that the 900 Soldiers from various EU nations currently deployed on it wil be fascinated to hear that they don't exist.

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?"

Is that a serious question ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

Is that a serious question ?

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/04/16 08:33:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

From the NATO website: " The military operation ALTHEA in Bosnia and Herzegovina (BiH) was launched on 2 December 2004 and has contributed to the maintenance of the safe and secure environment in BiH. The decision to launch Operation ALTHEA followed the decision by NATO to conclude its SFOR-operation and the adoption by the UN Security Council of resolution 1575 authorising the deployment of an EU Force (EUFOR) in BiH. In the framework of Operation ALTHEA, the EU initially deployed 7000 troops, to ensure continued compliance with the Dayton/Paris Agreement for peace in BiH and to contribute to a safe and secure environment in BiH."

The question is...when is a military deployment a NATO deployment and when is it an EU deployment? Expect Obama groupie Cameron (and Brussels) to twist the truth according to taste.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

Is that a serious question ?

Yes"

Well as in normal English:

"1800 troops " means "1800 soldiers"

As you might hear on the news; " UK has 1000 troops on standby for xxxxxx"

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

The question is...when is a military deployment a NATO deployment and when is it an EU deployment? Expect Obama groupie Cameron (and Brussels) to twist the truth according to taste. "

When it is conceived by the EU, when the EU takes responsibility for the policy, aims and objectives, commands the operation, and mounts the operation with available troops from the EU nations ( though it can, like any other organisation, take non EU troops under command and control.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

Is that a serious question ?

Yes

Well as in normal English:

"1800 troops " means "1800 soldiers"

As you might hear on the news; " UK has 1000 troops on standby for xxxxxx""

So what you mean is it was a collection of European armies working alongside eachother

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

The question is...when is a military deployment a NATO deployment and when is it an EU deployment? Expect Obama groupie Cameron (and Brussels) to twist the truth according to taste. "

From your own quote off the nato web site it was an eu deployment. Someone who actually served in it said it was an Eu deployment.

You and the rest of the brexit crew have had to twist yourselves inside out to believe something else.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

Is that a serious question ?

Yes

Well as in normal English:

"1800 troops " means "1800 soldiers"

As you might hear on the news; " UK has 1000 troops on standby for xxxxxx"

So what you mean is it was a collection of European armies working alongside eachother"

As is normal with any " alliance" or operation (NATO, UN etc), each nation supplies some element; infantry, tanks, artillery, engineers, logistics, aircraft, etc. Usually a " regiment" sized unit, sometimes a company. Normally a "lead nation" will supply a headquarters with its infrastructure, contributing nations all provide staff for the Headquarters...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

What's an EU troop?

Is that a serious question ?

Yes

Well as in normal English:

"1800 troops " means "1800 soldiers"

As you might hear on the news; " UK has 1000 troops on standby for xxxxxx"

So what you mean is it was a collection of European armies working alongside eachother"

You would hope they'd be working alongside each other because if they were working against each other that might turn into one of those things.....what do they call them when armies have a go at one another?. Oh yes...wars.

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

Simple. But complete bollocks.

which bit is complete bollocks?"

You aren't able to follow a thread then. The facts, though you choose to completely ignore then, are above. In black and white.

'Britain stood alone. Simple'. Nice sound bite, but factually not true. Bollocks in fact. Not an issue of left, right or sideways. Not an issue of dividing people. Just an issue of telling the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didnt come back tothis thread yesterday as i was to busy at work. Looking at how it has developed im not going to add anything except it is sad to see some of the comments on here. Perhaps we really do get the leaders we deserve lol.

Will probably get sucked into the next Brexit thread though.

Wish I was still in bed like some of you!

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!"

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop"

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

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By *ittie4U OP Couple
over a year ago

Watford

"Well NATO and I will have to agree to disagree on this point."

As others have said, Brexit Bollocks - the gift that keeps on giving.

Team Brexit knows more about US policy than the President of the US

Team Brexit knows more about economics than the IMF and Treasury

Team Brexit knows more about trade negotiations than trade negotiators

Now, Team Brexit knows more about international defence than NATO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?"

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes"

And your point would be?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes

And your point would be?"

There is no such thing as an EU troop

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes

And your point would be?

There is no such thing as an EU troop"

Well done. This is one of the paradoxes of modern life that you should learn to live with. You can have a nato force without having nato troops. You can have an EU force without having eu troops.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes

And your point would be?

There is no such thing as an EU troop

Well done. This is one of the paradoxes of modern life that you should learn to live with. You can have a nato force without having nato troops. You can have an EU force without having eu troops."

And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes

And your point would be?

There is no such thing as an EU troop

Well done. This is one of the paradoxes of modern life that you should learn to live with. You can have a nato force without having nato troops. You can have an EU force without having eu troops.

And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European"

On that disconnect from reality I think it's time for a brief interlude while you find your medication.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....The EU has never had any peace keeping role, indeed it does not possess the means to enforce peace....

Likewise I assume I imagined 3 months in the Congo as part of the EU intervention mission. As did the other 1800 EU troops that took part.

Our respect to you!

Of course. But there is no such thing as an EU troop

Just as there is no such thing as a nato troop?

Yes

And your point would be?

There is no such thing as an EU troop

Well done. This is one of the paradoxes of modern life that you should learn to live with. You can have a nato force without having nato troops. You can have an EU force without having eu troops.

And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European

On that disconnect from reality I think it's time for a brief interlude while you find your medication. "

You need to start thinking for yourself. And more deeply on the matter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's all true, what is your point?

Your confirming that Team Brexit will sink still lower in the coming months?

I feel for the country that they proport to represent.

Sounds like you are happy to stand side-by-side with their "dog whistle racism' though."

Well said, loathe that rank opportunist Johnson. At least Farage believes in Brexit, Johnson only believes in what will advance his career. A shameless, lying, sack of shite

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European"

Do you have any evidence for that? I want to stay in and am very pro-Europe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am great great great nephew to the Arch Duke of Bermondsey's saddle polisher.

He despised the Belgians, but had a short but passionate affair with an Illyrian bulldog painter named Geoff.

I'm utterly confused as to how to shoehorn these irrelevant FACTS into the debate to somehow make my opinion more patriotic than the next madman.

Are you dissing my great great great Uncle Shadrick? You wouldn't be saying that if he'd polished your saddle! Shame on you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European

Do you have any evidence for that? I want to stay in and am very pro-Europe."

I am very pro Europe but very anti EU.

It has gone beyond its remit and usefulness and is not helping the lives of so many Europeans

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"And another is that the in campaigners are actually anti European

Do you have any evidence for that? I want to stay in and am very pro-Europe.

I am very pro Europe but very anti EU.

It has gone beyond its remit and usefulness and is not helping the lives of so many Europeans"

I just wonder what the farmers will do once they can no longer get CAP subsidies. The UK Govt doesn't seem that bothered.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Pops in to say 'wibble' before the thread closes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pops in to say 'wibble' before the thread closes

Awww thanks Tina, thoughtful as ever - but there's already been plenty of that on this thread already

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The question is...when is a military deployment a NATO deployment and when is it an EU deployment? Expect Obama groupie Cameron (and Brussels) to twist the truth according to taste.

...and seeing as the EU couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and have a track record of messing things up (Eurozone crisis and the migrant crisis) a future EU army is certainly destined to be another monumental balls up by Brussels. Also will you be happy to pay a whole load extra to the EU for this EU army, it is going to cost money and you can bet your bottom dollar Britain will be hit with one of the biggest bills which means we the taxpayers will pay for it. Our EU contribution is already set to rise now before 2020, the costs will soar and spiral out of control even more with the formation of an EU army. Complete waste of money seeing as Nato already does that role and an EU army will just mean more bureaucracy, more pen pushers, more fatcat eurocrats in Brussels on the gravy train and more destabilisation in the world when Russia, China and North Korea see it as a hostile move by the West.

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