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The government want to save the british steel industry

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The government want to save the british steel industry and are willing to use the tax payers moneys, it is prepared to take a 25% stake and sources say that ministers are willing to offer up to a billion pound debt financing to help attract potential buyers.

What do you think of the idea? I think it is good, cos this is a good way of securing it in the future and will save lots of jobs.

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton

we need industry, some of chinese steel is crap, at work last week we had 2 men doing ultrasonic testing of the steel they told me a lot of the imported is inferior

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"we need industry, some of chinese steel is crap, at work last week we had 2 men doing ultrasonic testing of the steel they told me a lot of the imported is inferior"

re-smelting our scrap in arc furnaces .... the steel has other metallic elements that can't be removed using current arc processes and is low grade as a result

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About 40 years to late

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall we

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall we"
That is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Aren't we going backwards? We used to have British Steel. The previous governments thought it a great idea to sell off our national industries. Let the free market take over. Now they want to control it and it's too late.

They'd be throwing good money after bad. They'd never regain a profit and would drain resources the government doesn't have. They've already destroyed the coal industry, the car and shipbuilding industies have been dessimated. We have a Scottish government that buys trams from Germany and lets a Dutch company run our railways.

The respective governments should consider what they do with our money. Yes it's sad that people will lose their jobs. It's also sad that schools are closed due to poor construction and a pupil died as a result.

No, I don't think we should save the steel industry. I think the governments should practice what they preach and 'Buy British' in the first place instead of doing deals with the Chinese.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They after financing rich people? that's all i got from your post really.

Maybe they should have sold of OUR assets at their value instead of selling them at huge losses.

They can't keep making business deals and using US to finance them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"we need industry, some of chinese steel is crap, at work last week we had 2 men doing ultrasonic testing of the steel they told me a lot of the imported is inferior"

True. I work with steel, always been a valuable trade for our country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a strategic industry we need to keep at aome level.

But this will just happen again in the next decade or two.

The huge costs of electricity and carbon/environment taxes/penalties per kwh make producing in the uk incredibly uneconomical versus say germany or france or anywhere int he eu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


".

No, I don't think we should save the steel industry. I think the governments should practice what they preach and 'Buy British' in the first place instead of doing deals with the Chinese. "

except that the vast bulk of steel imported by the uk is from europe.

We dont actually buy that much chinese steel.

About 690 hundred thousand tons of steel imported from china this year...

4.7 million tons imported from europe.

Uk production about 11 million tons

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"They after financing rich people? that's all i got from your post really.

Maybe they should have sold of OUR assets at their value instead of selling them at huge losses.

They can't keep making business deals and using US to finance them."
Not to finance the rich I think, but rather like a big marketing kinda idea to get many interested in the business. They didn't cover it so much on the news.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I think it's hilarious

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

The Conservative (with a big C CONSERVATIVE) g'ment - committed to austerity and cuts to get Britain back on its feet is, simply for reasons of PR, offering to part-nationalise the remnants of British steel 'cos Cameron is a pathetic weather-vane of a politician in particular and the g'ment want to be seen to be nice to everyone in the run up to the EU referendum in general.

Conservative g'ment nationalises UK steel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it."

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan... "

What should they have done to atop this happening?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?"

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

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By *uzy444Woman
over a year ago

in the suffolk countryside


"About 40 years to late"
the tories sold it off..to mates..now they want to make their mates more money by building it back up again...honesty..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market" "

Not our market its the EU market.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

What about Redcar????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What do you think of the idea? I think it is good, cos this is a good way of securing it in the future and will save lots of jobs.

"

Difficult to know what is best simply due to the far outdated "blast furnaces"

A blast furnace cant afford to be shut down due to the damage done during this process and the cost of coal (for making ) imported from Australia is huge as is the cost of importing iron ore & limestone, shame we closed our mines.

.

Then we have the government imposed carbon emissions targets / EU emissions regulations; which is a huge cost as is our "ever green" Electricity which we pay through the nose for by government decision, as we have to subsidize low-carbon methods of energy generation, in particular wind farms.

wind turbines for energy production are: inefficient, unreliable, very expensive, this in turn puts high costs on blast furnaces and ensures EFA steel process cannot be used due to price

China has been producing iron ore for roughly 14 centuries longer than we have, man power is cheaper as are all costs and only two thirds of the Worlds steel is being sold at the moment while the rest is stock pilled

So do we throw a billion of tax payers cash year after year into a black hole or do we tackle other inefficiencies such as Power / Electricity

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

I love the irony:

"The British Steel industry " ( that's entirely owned by an Indian Company )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market."

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago

West Wales and Cardiff


"What about Redcar????

"

This has bothered me too. I drive past Port Talbot at least once a week, I know people who work there, I get how devastating it would be for the area.

I do feel Redcar had been forgotten in all this. I know the Port Talbot workers feel a huge link with them, but I've heard very little mention of the place in all this.

Feel for that area a bit really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

More workers are outsourced to India every week in banking, do their job count for less?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan... "

good government goes out the window when it's filled with a monoculture of economics/political studies graduates. these psuedo sciences are proving to be pretty useless in real terms.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

good government goes out the window when it's filled with a monoculture of economics/political studies graduates. these psuedo sciences are proving to be pretty useless in real terms.

"

Yay, we do agree on something!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

what concerns me most is the 15,000 or so who will be joining the queue on the same day. there's clearly no back up plan to cater for this scenario and the region will suffer terribly as a result.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then? "

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little"

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again "

Mote like 6% but then the industry in germany is exempted from paying eviromental taxes on its power too.

What is the margin on steel do you think?

And please enlighten me as to what you think the issue is and how it could have been solved.

Because so far your solution cant be applied because we cant do what ammerica did and stick a 200%+ mark up on chinese steel because we're in a trade block and can't individually set tarrifs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

Mote like 6% but then the industry in germany is exempted from paying eviromental taxes on its power too.

What is the margin on steel do you think?

And please enlighten me as to what you think the issue is and how it could have been solved.

Because so far your solution cant be applied because we cant do what ammerica did and stick a 200%+ mark up on chinese steel because we're in a trade block and can't individually set tarrifs."

If the EU wants to put a 200% tarrif on something then it can. I struggle with the idea that France and Germany support illegal dumping and wouldn't be in favour of a joint approach to preventing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

Mote like 6% but then the industry in germany is exempted from paying eviromental taxes on its power too.

What is the margin on steel do you think?

And please enlighten me as to what you think the issue is and how it could have been solved.

Because so far your solution cant be applied because we cant do what ammerica did and stick a 200%+ mark up on chinese steel because we're in a trade block and can't individually set tarrifs.

If the EU wants to put a 200% tarrif on something then it can. I struggle with the idea that France and Germany support illegal dumping and wouldn't be in favour of a joint approach to preventing it. "

EU wanted to try to restrict Chinese steel, to help EU steel production: the proposal was blocked by one country .

The UK......

Shot in foot, or what ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

"

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It belonged to the nation anyway when it was called British Steel. I totally agree that the government should help out the steel industry it's about time!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again "

where do you get that figure from? and what does that equate to in money?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

where do you get that figure from? and what does that equate to in money?"

BBC reported it...

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

where do you get that figure from? and what does that equate to in money?

BBC reported it... "

and in money is how much?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then? "

Who supplies the steel ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Who supplies the steel ?"

Irrelevant to your point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Who supplies the steel ?

Irrelevant to your point. "

Not irrelevant at all ! Your comment to my post is irrelevant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Who supplies the steel ?

Irrelevant to your point.

Not irrelevant at all ! Your comment to my post is irrelevant. "

Maybe I misunderstood your point then. It sounded like you were saying that an industry disappears when it gets sold off. Apologies if that's not what you meant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Who supplies the steel ?

Irrelevant to your point.

Not irrelevant at all ! Your comment to my post is irrelevant.

Maybe I misunderstood your point then. It sounded like you were saying that an industry disappears when it gets sold off. Apologies if that's not what you meant. "

No worries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

where do you get that figure from? and what does that equate to in money?

BBC reported it...

and in money is how much?

"

http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-the-steel-crisis-and-uk-electricity-prices

The 1% was the impact government policy is having on the overall production cost and the 6% figure someone else quoted is correct. However, energy prices alone cannot explain the differences between UK, France and Germany.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

What should they have done to atop this happening?

Since dumping is illegal, let's start with "don't let other countries dump on our market"

Not our market its the EU market.

So why arent the German and french companies in the same position then?

Because they havnt got the same enviromental tarrifs on thier power.

Ao producing steel there is luxh much cheaper than here ao the impact has been very little

Energy costs account for about 1%-3% of total production costs so please make up more bullshit and try again

where do you get that figure from? and what does that equate to in money?

BBC reported it...

and in money is how much?

http://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-the-steel-crisis-and-uk-electricity-prices

The 1% was the impact government policy is having on the overall production cost and the 6% figure someone else quoted is correct. However, energy prices alone cannot explain the differences between UK, France and Germany. "

and in money?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can blame Chinese dumping...High energy prices...lack of procurement. ..High pound all we want......extremely poor management and lack of investment (in the good times ) is more to blame for the state of the firm !!

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby


"it's a reasonably good idea shag .... but let's see if they mange not to balls it up first before we start the celebrations shall weThat is right and as well, it is a good start as they are talking about it.

A good government is one that prevents a crisis happening in the first place, not one that wades in after to save the day when the shit hits the fan...

good government goes out the window when it's filled with a monoculture of economics/political studies graduates. these psuedo sciences are proving to be pretty useless in real terms.

"

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"We can blame Chinese dumping...High energy prices...lack of procurement. ..High pound all we want......extremely poor management and lack of investment (in the good times ) is more to blame for the state of the firm !!"

actually port talbot has had billions invested in modernisation .... e.g. work was due to start next month on the new electricity generation plant fuelled by re-captured gas emissions.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Ahhh! To see all the joy squeezed out of a debate!

Warms the cockles of my non-existent heart.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You should see the corby site....I work on machines older than me.....management's philosophy is wait till it goes bang before repairing it....sad state of affairs when you have to go to a museum to get a spare part...i kid you not...

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then? "

Actually no, we don't really;

"British" Aerospace ( BAe) is, to all intents and purposes, a US company now;

Most of the rest of our stuff is from Siemens, GIAT, GM, Thompson etc.

When we buy new stuff, we plead with the (foreign) manufacturers to at least build a factory in UK to make the stuff; they agree ( to get the contract) then " accidentally" forget to build it in UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Actually no, we don't really;

"British" Aerospace ( BAe) is, to all intents and purposes, a US company now;

Most of the rest of our stuff is from Siemens, GIAT, GM, Thompson etc.

When we buy new stuff, we plead with the (foreign) manufacturers to at least build a factory in UK to make the stuff; they agree ( to get the contract) then " accidentally" forget to build it in UK.

"

OK well 300,000 people with well paying jobs think differently. Not to mention how much it exports...

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By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton


"British Steel industry? ?

We don't have one the government sold it off years ago.

So by your logic we don't have a defence industry then?

Actually no, we don't really;

"British" Aerospace ( BAe) is, to all intents and purposes, a US company now;

Most of the rest of our stuff is from Siemens, GIAT, GM, Thompson etc.

When we buy new stuff, we plead with the (foreign) manufacturers to at least build a factory in UK to make the stuff; they agree ( to get the contract) then " accidentally" forget to build it in UK.

"
yes bae new submarines are in being built with usa, will they use american steel, as not made in uk, i had a LDV van, a uk firm but it was a nissan with leyland badges

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Then we have the government imposed carbon emissions targets / EU emissions regulations; which is a huge cost as is our "ever green" Electricity which we pay through the nose for by government decision, as we have to subsidize low-carbon methods of energy generation, in particular wind farms.

wind turbines for energy production are: inefficient, unreliable, very expensive, this in turn puts high costs on blast furnaces and ensures EFA steel process cannot be used due to price

"
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Actually get your fucking facts straight.

On shore wind turbines are the cheapest form of electricity produced by ANY source in the UK.

Under £50 mwh.

Compare that to the committed 98 pounds mwh for the new Chinese nuclear power station.... Which is the most expensive electrical generating plant... Wait for it... In the world!!!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

sir terry matthews is getting involved now

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