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Chivalry Isn't Dead, You're Just Dating Assholes

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By *lovis OP   Man
over a year ago

Twickenham

A nice piece I discovered on the Internet...

Although the title couldn’t sum it up better, it first has to be said that chivalry is not something that has died, but evolved. In the past, men felt pressure to be chivalrous - so whether they liked it or not, they did it because, well, everyone else was doing it.

I suppose many women define chivalry in different ways, but for me, it means going out of your way to show a woman you want to take care of her, and impress her with your kindness and generosity.

This can be done in simple ways, like offering a coat if she’s cold, opening doors, sending flowers, paying the bill. It can be done in more grand ways, like sending romantic gifts to her office, asking to dance out of the blue, surprising her with a heartfelt letter.

What happened to chivalry is, the societal pressure was taken off - so men who were not naturally chivalrous (i.e. kind and generous), were now free to act however they please.

This does us a huge favor. Women of the past had to practically marry a man before she saw his true colors, because there was so much pressure for him to show decorum. Now there’s no such thing, and so the men who are truly classy will stand out.

If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men. In all likelihood, you’re a kind and generous woman who deserves a lot better, despite what you believe.

It may be harder to find good men out there now, since men have so much license to be as obnoxious as they want - but all you need is one good man. Just one. You’re probably not going to find him immediately, but there are enough of them out there.

You’re going to have to through a lot - this you probably already know. Don’t give up hope, though. Finding a chivalrous man is well worth it.

The really terrible thing that people like to assume is that, because we enjoy chivalry, we’re not feminists. I disagree. I think that respecting ourselves enough to want a man who is going to treat us with the highest possible regard is very feminist. It shows we value ourselves and take interest in our own future, as well as the future of whatever family we wish to create.

Men say to us, Why should we? Why should we be chivalrous? Those are the wrong men. They don’t get it, they’ll never get it. Ask a chivalrous man why he’s chivalrous and he’ll probably say something like, Because I love women, and I think they deserve all of the kindness a man can offer.

Men who ask why they should be chivalrous should ask themselves if they truly love women, or if they are only capable of loving themselves.

They’re just not emotionally mature enough to be a valid partner. All too often now, we see women who are willing to take care of a man in so many ways, but men can’t be bothered to lift a finger. Open the door? Why should I? Pay the bill? Why should I? As if we’re the ones asking them out, as if we’re vying for their attention.

We’re not. A note to men: If you desire us, treat us that way. Like you desire us - not like you’ve hired us.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Tell that to the woman who let a door slam in my face today

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia


"Tell that to the woman who let a door slam in my face today "
nasty!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Tell that to the woman who let a door slam in my face today "

What does that have to do with your own behaviour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For chivalrous men on a swingers site read white knights

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

What a load of pish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see why women can't be independent and yet accept chivalry. Personally, on a date, I'd expect to pay half of the bill, but I'd be impressed if the guy held a door for me. I'd expect curtousy that didn't cost my date anything, same as I'd expect to give the same.

Great post.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Ah, the 'nice guy' manifesto.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think manners are better than chivalry. Chivalry seems to cause an imbalance amongst genders.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Too long to read; try copying and pasting something a bit more pithy, please

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what a load of old codswallop

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"Too long to read; try copying and pasting something a bit more pithy, please "

With funny bits

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By *r.BlondeMan
over a year ago

Chester/Wirral


"A nice piece I discovered on the Internet...

Although the title couldn’t sum it up better, it first has to be said that chivalry is not something that has died, but evolved. In the past, men felt pressure to be chivalrous - so whether they liked it or not, they did it because, well, everyone else was doing it.

I suppose many women define chivalry in different ways, but for me, it means going out of your way to show a woman you want to take care of her, and impress her with your kindness and generosity.

This can be done in simple ways, like offering a coat if she’s cold, opening doors, sending flowers, paying the bill. It can be done in more grand ways, like sending romantic gifts to her office, asking to dance out of the blue, surprising her with a heartfelt letter.

What happened to chivalry is, the societal pressure was taken off - so men who were not naturally chivalrous (i.e. kind and generous), were now free to act however they please.

This does us a huge favor. Women of the past had to practically marry a man before she saw his true colors, because there was so much pressure for him to show decorum. Now there’s no such thing, and so the men who are truly classy will stand out.

If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men. In all likelihood, you’re a kind and generous woman who deserves a lot better, despite what you believe.

It may be harder to find good men out there now, since men have so much license to be as obnoxious as they want - but all you need is one good man. Just one. You’re probably not going to find him immediately, but there are enough of them out there.

You’re going to have to through a lot - this you probably already know. Don’t give up hope, though. Finding a chivalrous man is well worth it.

The really terrible thing that people like to assume is that, because we enjoy chivalry, we’re not feminists. I disagree. I think that respecting ourselves enough to want a man who is going to treat us with the highest possible regard is very feminist. It shows we value ourselves and take interest in our own future, as well as the future of whatever family we wish to create.

Men say to us, Why should we? Why should we be chivalrous? Those are the wrong men. They don’t get it, they’ll never get it. Ask a chivalrous man why he’s chivalrous and he’ll probably say something like, Because I love women, and I think they deserve all of the kindness a man can offer.

Men who ask why they should be chivalrous should ask themselves if they truly love women, or if they are only capable of loving themselves.

They’re just not emotionally mature enough to be a valid partner. All too often now, we see women who are willing to take care of a man in so many ways, but men can’t be bothered to lift a finger. Open the door? Why should I? Pay the bill? Why should I? As if we’re the ones asking them out, as if we’re vying for their attention.

We’re not. A note to men: If you desire us, treat us that way. Like you desire us - not like you’ve hired us."
called being an approval seeking beta male, women like a challenge and alpha males who can be gentlemen but wont bend over backwards for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think manners are better than chivalry. Chivalry seems to cause an imbalance amongst genders. "

I agree with this. It does cause an imbalance and seems to be what men should do for women and vice versa. Just be nice to people, hold the door for anyone because it's a polite thing to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"called being an approval seeking beta male, women like a challenge and alpha males who can be gentlemen but wont bend over backwards for them."

I'm not sure the alpha/beta model is true in real life. Maybe in pick up artist books though

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By *igeiaWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman.

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By *lovis OP   Man
over a year ago

Twickenham


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman."

As the OP, I wasn't offering advice - merely posting something I came across and FYI the article was written by a woman - Jeanine Amella.

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By *igeiaWoman
over a year ago

Bristol


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman.

As the OP, I wasn't offering advice - merely posting something I came across and FYI the article was written by a woman - Jeanine Amella. "

I actually figured that out for myself since it was written from a female perspective. FYI I personally didn't agree with her take on it. From my own perspective.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"Too long to read; try copying and pasting something a bit more pithy, please

With funny bits "

Yes, we insist on funny bits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men."

Just out of interest, at what point should some start to consider that they might be the problem and not everyone else?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


""If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men."

Just out of interest, at what point should some start to consider that they might be the problem and not everyone else? "

Shhhhh!

It's funnier if you odn't mention the elephant in the room.

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By *enuinedannyMan
over a year ago

walsall


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman.

As the OP, I wasn't offering advice - merely posting something I came across and FYI the article was written by a woman - Jeanine Amella. "
You "came" across that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men."

Just out of interest, at what point should some start to consider that they might be the problem and not everyone else?

Shhhhh!

It's funnier if you odn't mention the elephant in the room. "

It just find it amusing when you meet people on their 4th or 5th marriage and they are absolutely convinced they "pick assholes". By that stage it's usually a bit late in life to introduce them to the scientific principles of testing via the independant variable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Chivalry was the rules and etiquette of hand to hand combat. Our duelling days are over hence its dead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's just a terrible, nonsense clickbait article.

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By *igeiaWoman
over a year ago

Bristol


"It's just a terrible, nonsense clickbait article."

I'm more of a ClickHole fan.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"It's just a terrible, nonsense clickbait article."

Nonsense with mysogynistic overtones. Its drivel.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remeber folks if you put enough "Nice guy" tokens into a woman eventually she pays out just like a fuitmachine.

On a related note though no woman has ever offered me a coat when im cold

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any chance of a precis?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Remeber folks if you put enough "Nice guy" tokens into a woman eventually she pays out just like a fuitmachine.

On a related note though no woman has ever offered me a coat when im cold "

I have just been told off for this as my lady friend playign with fire pointed out shes offered me her coat a few times lol ^_^

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It may be harder to find good men out there now, since men have so much license to be as obnoxious as they want"

Well women are primarily the givers of sexual consent so if a man wants that good loving he'd better not be obnoxious. Otherwise he gets sent downstairs for a wank on the sofa...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Chivalry was the rules and etiquette of hand to hand combat. Our duelling days are over hence its dead"

There wouldn't be half as much road rage if we bought it back.

Swings and roundabouts...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman."

Wouldn't you prefer to be treated fair rather than on equal basis?

I personally believe that the theory of equality is flawed. We are not all born equal, therefore we should not all be treated as equals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Chivalry was the rules and etiquette of hand to hand combat. Our duelling days are over hence its dead

There wouldn't be half as much road rage if we bought it back.

Swings and roundabouts... "

Probably not. Just annoys me that people use chivalry to mean how blokes treat women when there was barely one mention of women in the original code

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood which developed between 1170 and 1220.

The code of chivalry that developed in medieval Europe had its roots in earlier centuries. It arose in the Holy Roman Empire from the idealisation of the cavalryman—involving military bravery, individual training, and service to others—especially in Francia, among horse soldiers in Charlemagne's cavalry.[1][2] The term chivalry derives from the Old French term chevalerie, which can be translated to "horse soldiery".[Note 1] Gautier states that knighthood emerged from the Moors as well as the Teutonic forests and was nurtured into civilization and chivalry by the Catholic Church.[4]

Over time, its meaning in Europe has been refined to emphasise social and moral virtues more generally influenced by Arabic concept of chivalry? and the Code of Chivalry, as it stood by the Late Middle Ages, was a moral system which combined a warrior ethos, knightly piety, and courtly manners, all conspiring to establish a notion of honour and nobility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm hoping my son marries a strong independent woman and they are in an equal relationship but I would like to think I have brought him up well that he would WANT to hold the door open for her..give her his coat if she was cold. ..WANT to look after her and and be a bit old fashioned in a way. Don't get more macho than a perfect gentleman x

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs


""If you’re in a predicament where you’ve dated man after man, and none of them have showed that they are willing to think for anyone but themselves, then you’ve just been dating the wrong men."

Just out of interest, at what point should some start to consider that they might be the problem and not everyone else?

Shhhhh!

It's funnier if you odn't mention the elephant in the room.

It just find it amusing when you meet people on their 4th or 5th marriage and they are absolutely convinced they "pick assholes". By that stage it's usually a bit late in life to introduce them to the scientific principles of testing via the independant variable. "

Lol!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've found a few chivalrous one's that are arse holes too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman."

Spot on for me

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley


"I appreciate courtesy. From both sexes. Chivalry as defined by the OP (and how nice it is of him to offer us women advice) is not equality. It is sexism masquerading as manners. I'll hold a door open for anyone behind me because it is just good manners. It's got fuck all to do with their gender. The men I adore treat me as an equal and have respect for me as a person. They don't treat me with respect just because I am a woman.

Spot on for me "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Chivalry, or the chivalric code, is a code of conduct associated with the medieval institution of knighthood which developed between 1170 and 1220.

The code of chivalry that developed in medieval Europe had its roots in earlier centuries. It arose in the Holy Roman Empire from the idealisation of the cavalryman—involving military bravery, individual training, and service to others—especially in Francia, among horse soldiers in Charlemagne's cavalry.[1][2] The term chivalry derives from the Old French term chevalerie, which can be translated to "horse soldiery".[Note 1] Gautier states that knighthood emerged from the Moors as well as the Teutonic forests and was nurtured into civilization and chivalry by the Catholic Church.[4]

Over time, its meaning in Europe has been refined to emphasise social and moral virtues more generally influenced by Arabic concept of chivalry? and the Code of Chivalry, as it stood by the Late Middle Ages, was a moral system which combined a warrior ethos, knightly piety, and courtly manners, all conspiring to establish a notion of honour and nobility."

It's looks less obvious that you copied and pasted from Wikipedia if you delete the footnote references like [4]

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"

It's looks less obvious that you copied and pasted from Wikipedia if you delete the footnote references like [4]"

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