FabSwingers.com forum: justice served?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

colin hatch, a convicted child killer, murdered in jail.

he's served 17 yrs of a life sentence

he killed a 7 yr old boy and had served a previous sentence for sexually assaulting a child and strangulating him..

his own lawyer said he would kill again if released

has justice been served or should he have been protected in prison.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

I don't believe in capital punishment, therefore, irrespective of how horrific the crimes he committed were, I don't think justice has been served.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"colin hatch, a convicted child killer, murdered in jail.

he's served 17 yrs of a life sentence

he killed a 7 yr old boy and had served a previous sentence for sexually assaulting a child and strangulating him..

his own lawyer said he would kill again if released

has justice been served or should he have been protected in prison.

He should have served his time with everyone else. doing what he did removes most privilages in my book.

Let those he sits with dole out his punishment.

And yes...im one who would have hung him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mixed feelings. Impossible to feel any real sympathy for Hatch, but should somebody who had previous for attacking paedophiles have been able to get that close to him? And do 2 wrongs ever make a right?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Mixed feelings. Impossible to feel any real sympathy for Hatch, but should somebody who had previous for attacking paedophiles have been able to get that close to him? And do 2 wrongs ever make a right?"

no, they don't never...and this chap will sit in the dock also.

i just understand why he did it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's easy to understand why we might do it...perhaps it's not so easy to understand why he did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You never heard much about peado s when corporal punishment was around ? I think with the DNA technology it is right to terminate murderers they live the life of rielly in jail own tv s and playstations along with lots of other perks that some people can't afford. Why do we as tax payers have to pay for this!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You never heard much about peado s when corporal punishment was around ? I think with the DNA technology it is right to terminate murderers they live the life of rielly in jail own tv s and playstations along with lots of other perks that some people can't afford. Why do we as tax payers have to pay for this!!! "

Are you being serious?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i guess my _iews wont be popular, but i wont be shedding any tears for the guy! Good riddance!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child? "

Maybe HIS parents aren't feeling too good now they have lost a son...or are they guilty, by association, too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree.

Put them down and dont waste tears on them.Or a moral arguement.

Unless you have been on the sharp end of scum like this then you will never know what misery they cause and the damage they do to those living with it.

I for one would offer to hang the sick basterds

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child? "

if my child i wud want them hung drawn and quartered... im sorry but y the hell shud we pay taxes for peeps like this when we all know that when and if relised the same will happen to someones elses child...these peado's get an easy life and their victims are left to suffer long after the crime has been commited... so sorry if i offend anyone but no i wud chop off the hands and tounge and private parts ... but that onlt my opinion and something i feel very passionate about

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

The problem I have with capital punishment is that it is a form of vengeance not retribution, and personally I find that to be immoral.

I didn't teach my child that stealing is wrong by stealing his toys, or that violence is wrong by hitting him. To quote a famous South African lawyer, "The burning of the house of the offender is not a permissible punishment for arson. The rape of the offender is not a permissible punishment of a rapist. Why should murder be a permissible punishment for murder?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry but i feel no sympathy whatsoever that this person has been killed my oh would gladly murder any peodo. our children shouldnt suffer like that. good riddance to very bad rubbish we say. our opinion of course and sorry to all that dont agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I prefer the laws in Tunisia....he would of been put to death for his 1st offence of paedophilia

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"I prefer the laws in Tunisia....he would of been put to death for his 1st offence of paedophilia"

Often without compelling evidence unfortunately....but why let evidence get in the way of a blood thirsty crowd?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't believe in capital punishment, therefore, irrespective of how horrific the crimes he committed were, I don't think justice has been served."

Ditto!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you being serious?"

I...you know what...what's the point?!!

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

I think it's terrible that Hatch was killed. He will now miss out on his real punishment of 3 hot meals a day, hot and cold running water, warmth, a roof over his head, clothing, various leisure activities, free education and visits from relatives and loved ones.

I am truly sorry that Hatch has been deprived of all this, and I hope that the person who killed him receives all the above punishments and more, maybe even some financial compensation for getting his hands dirty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My head hurts!...must stop banging it against the wall!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No because the media wasn't anywhere near as powerful as it is now back then. When corporal punishment was around, paedophiles could abuse children for years and get away with it thanks to fewer groups acting to protect children. Having corporal punishment around didn't stop systematic abuse of children in Ireland now, did it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My head hurts!...must stop banging it against the wall!"

I started, but caught myself in time and stopped!

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

I don't believe in capital punishment, taking a life is a bit harsh! Plus our justice system fucks up way to often to risk killing someone wrongly.

However is the planet a better place now that this oxygen thief is gone, yes!

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

Banging one's head against a brick wall is always a good excuse for not actually having to think, or care about societies problems, and by extension, absolving oneself of any responsibility for contributing toward a solution.

Some people are contributors, some people just waste oxygen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Banging one's head against a brick wall is always a good excuse for not actually having to think, or care about societies problems, and by extension, absolving oneself of any responsibility for contributing toward a solution.

Some people are contributors, some people just waste oxygen.

Although beautifully worded...that it full of assumptions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I prefer the laws in Tunisia....he would of been put to death for his 1st offence of paedophilia

Often without compelling evidence unfortunately....but why let evidence get in the way of a blood thirsty crowd?"

Without compelling evidence? what about the child? a small child wouldn't be able to accuse someone falsely, the evidence would be obvious to and it's never in front of a crowd over there

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"I prefer the laws in Tunisia....he would of been put to death for his 1st offence of paedophilia

Often without compelling evidence unfortunately....but why let evidence get in the way of a blood thirsty crowd?

Without compelling evidence? what about the child? a small child wouldn't be able to accuse someone falsely, the evidence would be obvious to and it's never in front of a crowd over there"

You like Tunisian justice so much?....try living in Tunisia with a swinging lifestyle.

See how they _iew that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ha ha I used to live there!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Then you should know full well that Tunisia practises remand sentences (pre trial) that can last up to Ten years.

They are an authoritarian regime that has appalling human rights records, all documented by Amnesty International.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They also have a virtually non existant crime rate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am unable to feel any sympathy for this man whatsoever and I feel he gave up his "rights" to a moral debate the moment he committed his atrocious acts.

This is a man who was undeniably guilty and likely (in his lawyers opinion) to commit them again if he got released. The fact that he now can't makes the world a better place (in my opinion).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am unable to feel any sympathy for this man whatsoever and I feel he gave up his "rights" to a moral debate the moment he committed his atrocious acts.

This is a man who was undeniably guilty and likely (in his lawyers opinion) to commit them again if he got released. The fact that he now can't makes the world a better place (in my opinion)."

Here, here!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm pretty liberal, but I do think capital punishment can be valid. Not familiar with this case but sounds like justice to me.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

[Removed by poster at 25/02/11 12:42:48]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because they live one step above Sharia law with no jury system in their courts, lawyers are rarely allowed to represent the accused unless it is a civil case.

They do have crime, it just isn't reported as the media is state controlled in Tunisia."

Ever been there? or just going on what you've read?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"They also have a virtually non existant crime rate"

Because they live one step above Sharia law with no jury system in their courts, lawyers are rarely allowed to represent the accused unless it is a civil case.

They do have crime, it just isn't reported very much as the media is state controlled in Tunisia.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Because they live one step above Sharia law with no jury system in their courts, lawyers are rarely allowed to represent the accused unless it is a civil case.

They do have crime, it just isn't reported as the media is state controlled in Tunisia.

Ever been there? or just going on what you've read?

Been to any swingers clubs in Tunisia?

Any Gay clubs in Tunisia?

Ever try to access the World Wide Web in Tunisia?.....state controlled Internet Service Providers, they filter what you can browse.

Seen any Citizen Advice Bureau in Tunisia?

Ever visited a criminal court case in Tunisia?.....no, because they operate closed courts with no lawyers in criminal cases.

Ever been asked to attend Jury Service in Tunisia when you lived there?.....no because they have don't have a Jury system.

Ever heard of any forensic evidence being shown in a Tunisian court of law?....No, because their legal systen does not allow forensic evidence in criminal cases, no DNA, no fingerprints etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because they live one step above Sharia law with no jury system in their courts, lawyers are rarely allowed to represent the accused unless it is a civil case.

They do have crime, it just isn't reported as the media is state controlled in Tunisia.

Ever been there? or just going on what you've read?

Been to any swingers clubs in Tunisia?

Any Gay clubs in Tunisia?

Ever try to access the World Wide Web in Tunisia?.....state controlled Internet Service Providers, they filter what you can browse.

Seen any Citizen Advice Bureau in Tunisia?

Ever visited a criminal court case in Tunisia?.....no, because they operate closed courts with no lawyers in criminal cases.

Ever been asked to attend Jury Service in Tunisia when you lived there?.....no because they have don't have a Jury system.

Ever heard of any forensic evidence being shown in a Tunisian court of law?....No, because their legal systen does not allow forensic evidence in criminal cases, no DNA, no fingerprints etc.

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?"

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not."

I'm not trying to invalidate her argument, I just asked if she had been there?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

On holiday.....haven't lived there but you don't have to live there to know it operates a closed legal system.

I haven't lived in Saudi Arabia either but I know they operate a legal system that almost mirrors that of Tunisia.

Did you know for example that Tunisia doesn't publish figures for those kept in it's prisons?....could be 100 prisoners, but could be hundreds of thousands.

Or that Tunisia doesn't permit prison visits?

Or that Tunisia doesn't have an official maximum tariff for remand prisoners....you can be held FOREVER on remand in Tunisia, with no legal recourse.

Why do you think that they have been taking to the streets of Tunisia trying to bring down the regime?

Do you think it's because they want the right to a democratic legal system?...or maybe you think they just want more KFC franchises to be permitted?

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not."

I disagree. Although homosexuality and swinging isn't publicly accepted in Tunisia, it still occurs "underground". Anybody who has lived there would know that and be familiar with local occurrences. Just doing a quick google to find statements that agree with what you personally believe is just the uneducated option, but is always a favourite tool of the ignorant keyboard warriors.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not.

As is the assumption/accusation that that is how and where the poster is getting her information.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On holiday.....haven't lived there but you don't have to live there to know it operates a closed legal system.

I haven't lived in Saudi Arabia either but I know they operate a legal system that almost mirrors that of Tunisia.

Did you know for example that Tunisia doesn't publish figures for those kept in it's prisons?....could be 100 prisoners, but could be hundreds of thousands.

Or that Tunisia doesn't permit prison visits?

Or that Tunisia doesn't have an official maximum tariff for remand prisoners....you can be held FOREVER on remand in Tunisia, with no legal recourse.

Why do you think that they have been taking to the streets of Tunisia trying to bring down the regime?

Do you think it's because they want the right to a democratic legal system?...or maybe you think they just want more KFC franchises to be permitted?"

I never said I agreed with all Tunisian law just the one that executes paedophiles, the laws in Tunisia are much better than Saudis....for a start they are the only Islamic country where women have the same rights as men and are not 2nd class citizens.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Swinging and homosexuality isn't just not publically accepted in Tunisia, it is illegal under their Sharia-esque laws.

Homosexuals being tried in Tunisia don't make the news because they don't see an open court system...they are simply 'vanished' into cess pit prisons with no court case as we would see it in the UK, just an appearance before a judge where the State offers up verbal evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Swinging and homosexuality isn't just not publically accepted in Tunisia, it is illegal under their Sharia-esque laws.

Actaully homosexuality is becoming less of a "thing" now and believe me swinging goes on, it's still underground at mo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They also have a virtually non existant crime rate"

Thats bollocks. I was guilty of a crime of fraud against me last time I went. I paid bloody good money for that bag only to find on my return that it wasn't an actual Fendi.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Yes executes paedophiles without the benefit of a court case that includes any form of defence, without a defending lawyer in court, without a jury.....where the accused is only allowed to swear an oath of innocense that has to be submitted on a piece of paper that is read out by the judge....who incidentally is almost always an Islamic cleric.

Surely someone accused of being a paedophile is entitled to a fair trial with a proper defence....not simply assumed to be guilty without rights, and absolutely no chance of being found not guilty in an Islamic court?

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not.

As is the assumption/accusation that that is how and where the poster is getting her information.

You should dust off your pink leather pants and get yourself down to Sousse for some hot man-on-man sausage-swapping

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not.

As is the assumption/accusation that that is how and where the poster is getting her information.

You should dust off your pink leather pants and get yourself down to Sousse for some hot man-on-man sausage-swapping

A gay friend of mine (Tunisian man) had a relationship there and used to get a lift back from his village every morning from the police and they knew where he had been and what he was doing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On holiday.....haven't lived there but you don't have to live there to know it operates a closed legal system.

I haven't lived in Saudi Arabia either but I know they operate a legal system that almost mirrors that of Tunisia.

Did you know for example that Tunisia doesn't publish figures for those kept in it's prisons?....could be 100 prisoners, but could be hundreds of thousands.

Or that Tunisia doesn't permit prison visits?

Or that Tunisia doesn't have an official maximum tariff for remand prisoners....you can be held FOREVER on remand in Tunisia, with no legal recourse.

Why do you think that they have been taking to the streets of Tunisia trying to bring down the regime?

Do you think it's because they want the right to a democratic legal system?...or maybe you think they just want more KFC franchises to be permitted?

Bahrain.. United Arab Emirates.. Kuwait are amongst the most progressive of the gulf states fer womens rights...esp UAE ..they have women mimisters ....

Tho I haven`t personally met them ....tho one could safely assume thru empirical evidence that they do actually exist...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They also have a virtually non existant crime rate

Thats bollocks. I was guilty of a crime of fraud against me last time I went. I paid bloody good money for that bag only to find on my return that it wasn't an actual Fendi. "

Normally they tell you it's a genuine copy when you buy a bag or other named product....how long did it last cus we have a standing joke that they will last your holiday and fall apart as soon as you get home?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"On holiday.....haven't lived there but you don't have to live there to know it operates a closed legal system.

I haven't lived in Saudi Arabia either but I know they operate a legal system that almost mirrors that of Tunisia.

Did you know for example that Tunisia doesn't publish figures for those kept in it's prisons?....could be 100 prisoners, but could be hundreds of thousands.

Or that Tunisia doesn't permit prison visits?

Or that Tunisia doesn't have an official maximum tariff for remand prisoners....you can be held FOREVER on remand in Tunisia, with no legal recourse.

Why do you think that they have been taking to the streets of Tunisia trying to bring down the regime?

Do you think it's because they want the right to a democratic legal system?...or maybe you think they just want more KFC franchises to be permitted?

Bahrain.. United Arab Emirates.. Kuwait are amongst the most progressive of the gulf states fer womens rights...esp UAE ..they have women mimisters ....

Tho I haven`t personally met them ....tho one could safely assume thru empirical evidence that they do actually exist..."

In these countries the children are still "property" of the man and the women have no rights over them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do not believe that it is acceptable to kill another person in the circumstances discussed.

Yes Colin Hatch was a child killer serving out a prison sentence of undetermined time. It wasnt likely he would ever have been released.

The prison he was held in was a high security prison holding only category A & B prisoners, which means that these prisoners are highly dangerous to the public.

It is just my opinion, but I am sceptical that the man who murdered Hatch was acting out of the interests of all us law abiding citizens. I dont know what he was imprisoned for, but the fact that he was housed in a maximum security prison kinda gives you a little inkling of the type of person he was.

We all know there is hierarchy within the prison establishment. I would imagine Hatch was murdered to gain some kind of notoreity within prison. I think its rather bizarre for some to regard him as a "hero" when probably the guy is a sadistic evil bastard, who I am guessing did this crime purely for his own gain and not because he felt Hatch's crimes were so abhorrent that he couldnt possibly live with the knowledge of them.

Vigilante mob culture is wrong. Whilst we all feel passionately about paedophiles and child killers, we have to let the law decide the punishment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"colin hatch, a convicted child killer, murdered in jail.

he's served 17 yrs of a life sentence

he killed a 7 yr old boy and had served a previous sentence for sexually assaulting a child and strangulating him..

his own lawyer said he would kill again if released

has justice been served or should he have been protected in prison.

You can`t pick and choose what laws you want to uphold ..he should of been protected ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Swinging and homosexuality isn't just not publically accepted in Tunisia, it is illegal under their Sharia-esque laws.

it was actually still illegal in the uk up to the late 60's...it still happened.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Swinging and homosexuality isn't just not publically accepted in Tunisia, it is illegal under their Sharia-esque laws.

it was actually still illegal in the uk up to the late 60's...it still happened.

The BIG difference being that in England we DO have a legal system that allows for a decent defence....in Tunisia you are more likely to be 'vanished' into a shit hole prison without trial

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Briefly going back to the original thread title for a min...

I do wish that those spouting the moral highground about the law not serving the criminal and that justice should be upheld in regards to punishment of said "murderer" ....

That just as much if not more consideration is given to the victims in all this.

Those criminals didnt spare a thought to those they raped and abused and tortured etc.

In doing said deed they negated any choice in how they were then imprisoned..

duty is to feed, water and clothe.

Not to pamper, educate and keep in better conditions that many struggle to have outside prison.

The law in this country is an ass. its a joke at its best and laughable at its worse.

We put mad dogs down ...those who commit these heinous crimes cannot be cured. thats been proven.

Put them down when enough evidence states they did it and be done with it.

The victims of these horrendous crimes live with the aftermath every day of their lives.

Its they who deserve the voice.

Its they who deserve an end to the horrors of wondering if "they" who did it, will be released.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

We don't have the death penalty in this country, if we did then this piece of scum would have been rightly put to death after a fair trial....but we don't.

And that is the vital point here, in the absence of a death penalty we imprison this scum for life after a fair trial, is the other animal that murdered him any less of a piece of scum?

We sent this other piece of scum to a maximum security prison for good reason, that being to punish him for his continued crimes...as far as I know we never gave him the job of judge, jury and executioner.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

"Briefly going back to the original thread title for a min...

I do wish that those spouting the moral highground about the law not serving the criminal and that justice should be upheld in regards to punishment of said "murderer" ....

That just as much if not more consideration is given to the victims in all this.

Those criminals didnt spare a thought to those they raped and abused and tortured etc.

In doing said deed they negated any choice in how they were then imprisoned..

duty is to feed, water and clothe.

Not to pamper, educate and keep in better conditions that many struggle to have outside prison.

The law in this country is an ass. its a joke at its best and laughable at its worse.

We put mad dogs down ...those who commit these heinous crimes cannot be cured. thats been proven.

Put them down when enough evidence states they did it and be done with it.

The victims of these horrendous crimes live with the aftermath every day of their lives.

Its they who deserve the voice.

Its they who deserve an end to the horrors of wondering if "they" who did it, will be released. "

I agree with all you've said here, but I don't agree with capital punishment because I think that is too easy a way out for the criminal. A life sentence should be a life sentence, and a hard life at that, so that prison really is a deterrent rather than the easy life it seems to be.

Having said that, statistics prove that violent "lifer" criminals who are released early can go on to commit more crimes as we have seen with some recent cases, but no violent criminal who was executed ever went on to commit more crimes.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"Briefly going back to the original thread title for a min...

I do wish that those spouting the moral highground about the law not serving the criminal and that justice should be upheld in regards to punishment of said "murderer" ....

That just as much if not more consideration is given to the victims in all this.

Those criminals didnt spare a thought to those they raped and abused and tortured etc.

In doing said deed they negated any choice in how they were then imprisoned..

duty is to feed, water and clothe.

Not to pamper, educate and keep in better conditions that many struggle to have outside prison.

The law in this country is an ass. its a joke at its best and laughable at its worse.

We put mad dogs down ...those who commit these heinous crimes cannot be cured. thats been proven.

Put them down when enough evidence states they did it and be done with it.

The victims of these horrendous crimes live with the aftermath every day of their lives.

Its they who deserve the voice.

Its they who deserve an end to the horrors of wondering if "they" who did it, will be released. "

totally agree and well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child? "

Wasn't this the same bloke that knifed Ian Huntley?

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

When I was younger, I was an ardent supporter of bringing back the death penalty for people like this.

Over time, having had kids, experienced life and, with the love of a good woman, I have mellowed, maybe gone soft.

During discussions about this subject, I have been swayed, first one way, then the other, usually coming down on the side of the death penalty in the first hot flush of anger at hearing the details of what had happened, but then softening when the argument about the possibility of miscarraiges of justice etc is made.

In this instance, I am swayed towards being glad that this particular individual cannot harm any more kids, but sorry that he will not be punished any more for his crimes.

I still believe that the current penal system is too soft, they should be punished, not cosseted, hard labour, boring meals, no tv's or playstations in their cells etc.

I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some people are contributors, some people just waste oxygen.

Although beautifully worded...that it full of assumptions."

were you born bitter?

you seem to court conflict and your well worth ignoring

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"were you born bitter?

you seem to court conflict and your well worth ignoring"

Ouch - disagree with someone's opinions, by all means, but there's no need to get personal just because other people don't share your beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"were you born bitter?

you seem to court conflict and your well worth ignoring

Ouch - disagree with someone's opinions, by all means, but there's no need to get personal just because other people don't share your beliefs."

totally.....it's usually the sign of the last breathe leaving the body of a flawed argument

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........................I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

Criminals re-offend because they don't think they'll get caught - if they think at all.

I doubt the conditions they'll be confined under are any consideration at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........................I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

Criminals re-offend because they don't think they'll get caught - if they think at all.

I doubt the conditions they'll be confined under are any consideration at all."

Totally agree

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"........................I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

Criminals re-offend because they don't think they'll get caught - if they think at all.

I doubt the conditions they'll be confined under are any consideration at all."

Do you think the same theory extends to countries where they have the death penalty?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........................I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

Criminals re-offend because they don't think they'll get caught - if they think at all.

I doubt the conditions they'll be confined under are any consideration at all.

Do you think the same theory extends to countries where they have the death penalty?"

With certain types of criminals yes I do - sociopaths for example

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"........................I fully believe the current system is not a deterent, which is why many criminals re-offend.

Criminals re-offend because they don't think they'll get caught - if they think at all.

I doubt the conditions they'll be confined under are any consideration at all.

Do you think the same theory extends to countries where they have the death penalty?"

Yes. I doubt many people committing a crime likely to attract execution consider the possibility of being caught.

That's maybe because a lot of murders are very much spur of the moment 'crime of passion' events where the offender reacts to a stimulus they hadn't expected to encounter - catching the spouse shagging someone else or being told their being divorced etc.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child?

Wasn't this the same bloke that knifed Ian Huntley?"

he was indeed...the question will be asked how he was on the same wing.

i suspect there was some intent...there's no way the prison service was unaware of his previous and his loathing of pedophiles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ther is a saying, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, but dose anyone actually know the rest of it ? it actually reads, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, but then if we take all the eyes what will we see with? if we take all the teeth what will we eat with ? (sufi logic its called )taking someones life for the fact that they have taken someone elses is moraly chalenging to say the least if taking there life as punishment would offect them and only them then fine do it but dose it only offect them ? they may have children wives pearants you are also offecting ther lives and punishing them too but then as a taxpayer i hate the fact that my taxes pay for them to be kept in a relative lap of luxury while i work hard to eek out a living and will i shead a tear for this pedo nope certanly not in my lifetime will i shead a tea or even have the mearest sympathy for any offender like that me personally id see them sit in a 6x9 for the rest of ther lives devoild of any outside stimulus IE no tv no newspapers no books or phone calls .only visits by direct family or relatives basicaly they would sit in a room with nothing untill the day they died hopefully in total insanity and madness but i doubt the political correctness squad would allow this human rights they call it but what about the human rights of the victim and ther family they are often forgotten and mistreated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think even giving Hatch a mention in here is too good for him. What goes around comes around and it's quite satisfying to know that he died in the same manner that he murdered is little victim.

Rest In Hell.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

how many time have peodos offended and been given a slap on wrist like a naughty school boy and told dont do that again.... to many times .... and as for sex register its a waste of time ...half of the time they move and police dont know where to ... we should be allowed to know where they live and who they are to protect our children.... but no human rights have it all wrong in this society we protect the criminal to hell with the victims ...they have have no rights... doesnt matter what they have suffered as long as we look after the criminal ....f**king bull shit if you ask me .... law and justice certainly do not go hand in hand .. and as for feeling sorry for them and there rights.. once u do a crime u pay the price or should do

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

Justice served indeed now move his killer to other prisons to carry out more community work killing peedos

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"how many time have peodos offended and been given a slap on wrist like a naughty school boy and told dont do that again.... to many times .... and as for sex register its a waste of time ...half of the time they move and police dont know where to ... we should be allowed to know where they live and who they are to protect our children.... but no human rights have it all wrong in this society we protect the criminal to hell with the victims ...they have have no rights... doesnt matter what they have suffered as long as we look after the criminal ....f**king bull shit if you ask me .... law and justice certainly do not go hand in hand .. and as for feeling sorry for them and there rights.. once u do a crime u pay the price or should do

It isnt feeling "sorry" for them at all, this country would be an absolute war zone if we allowed vigilante groups to take the law into their own hands. Any large group of protesters attract the "mob element" who get involved solely to cause trouble. We see this at any large demonstration and certain political parties.

It is certainly rarer for an offender to snatch a child off the streets and sexually abuse them. It is more likely that the family know the offender beforehand. So maybe we should protect our children by being very careful who we leave them with, ie; babysitters, or partners we have. Our children are our most precious possessions. A lot of people will have anyone babysit their kids so they can go out, but they wouldnt empty their bank account and leave all that money with said babysitter.

And as for knowing where the sex offenders are living so you feel safer in your homes - thats only the tip of the iceberg. Be frightened of the sex offenders living on everyones estate, the ones that havent ever had convictions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A judge in a recent case even went as far as telling a defendant who had been grooming a 14y/o girl over the internet that he "wasn't a real paedophile" and that he was just confused over his sexuality.

This pervert had detailed plans on his computer about what he wanted to do to the girl.

Half the problem in this country lies with the hopelessly out of touch judges the CPS employs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Lord Chancllor and the judicial appointments commission appoint judges Wishy ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........Half the problem in this country lies with the hopelessly out of touch judges the CPS employs. "

The CPS doesn't appoint judges.

The Judicial Appointments Commission appoints judges.

The CPS doesn't have any say in which judges sit in which cases.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"colin hatch, a convicted child killer, murdered in jail.

he's served 17 yrs of a life sentence

he killed a 7 yr old boy and had served a previous sentence for sexually assaulting a child and strangulating him..

his own lawyer said he would kill again if released

has justice been served or should he have been protected in prison.

I suppose every prisoner should be protected against violence or death in this case while in prison...but it obviously happens. Wether the warders turn a blind eye or not is another matter.

But, in this case..maybe he got his just deserts.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

well said ... thats the point of a debate to hear eveyone elses point of _iew

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I guess different feelings from different people. But I won't be shedding a tear either!!! Would people still feel the same if it was their own child?

Maybe HIS parents aren't feeling too good now they have lost a son...or are they guilty, by association, too? "

As a parent I think my loyalty might be severely tested faced with an offspring killing a young child....but happily I am not in that position to know.

By the sounds of it the killer didn't think of the childs parents and I don't see anyone saying that the parents of this man are guilty too.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?"

I have put a general comment in rather than to single anyone out as there were many posts.

Anyone it applies to should know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?"

Me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?

I have put a general comment in rather than to single anyone out as there were many posts.

Anyone it applies to should know."

There's world of difference between people having different opinions about matters and correcting a contributor who is posting incorrect information in an attempt to shore up a wobbly case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?

I have put a general comment in rather than to single anyone out as there were many posts.

Anyone it applies to should know.

There's world of difference between people having different opinions about matters and correcting a contributor who is posting incorrect information in an attempt to shore up a wobbly case."

No case, it was a brief comment about what a paedophile looked like, daily mail readership and forumites.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"OK

If you are going to contribute to an adult debate can you stop with the condesending posts when someone else has a different _iew than you.

Just because it is different than yours doesn't mean it is wrong.

Who was that directed at?

I have put a general comment in rather than to single anyone out as there were many posts.

Anyone it applies to should know.

There's world of difference between people having different opinions about matters and correcting a contributor who is posting incorrect information in an attempt to shore up a wobbly case."

I know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It looks as if there's a lot of unintentional cross posting here which is making it difficult to follow the thread.

Sorry if I've caused confusion.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Seems paranoia is around today.

I will explain, I kept my post general.I did that for two reasons

1. because there were a good few people who had done it.

2.I didn't want to single out one person as then it could apply to any thread.

If it didn't apply to you then just ignore my post.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seems paranoia is around today.

I will explain, I kept my post general.I did that for two reasons

1. because there were a good few people who had done it.

2.I didn't want to single out one person as then it could apply to any thread.

If it didn't apply to you then just ignore my post."

I understand that but the trouble with a 'general warning' is that nobody thinks it applies to them

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

[Removed by poster at 26/02/11 12:55:49]

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Seems paranoia is around today.

I will explain, I kept my post general.I did that for two reasons

1. because there were a good few people who had done it.

2.I didn't want to single out one person as then it could apply to any thread.

If it didn't apply to you then just ignore my post.

I understand that but the trouble with a 'general warning' is that nobody thinks it applies to them

lol can't win huh.

The sentiment is there though, and if people ignore it as they think it doesn't apply, it isn't anyone else fault eh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too."

It has been to me too but its also confirmed _iews i have of some people on here.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too."

I agree...and it sure has been.

Most of the time people just debate without trying to ridicule...which is a good thing.

So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

It has been to me too but its also confirmed _iews i have of some people on here."

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

In which way?

Did you expect the answers you are reading ?

Serious question btw."

I fully expected some of the posts I've read. However I was surprised by the ratio of capital punishment supporters, as for some reason I thought there would be a more evenly balanced distribution.

A couple of posts made by some people have really made me stop and think... in a good way, I hasten to add.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

I agree...and it sure has been.

Most of the time people just debate without trying to ridicule...which is a good thing.

So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?"

For me it tells me some people are quick to react without thinking things through. I don't like all those people in Jail, my first reaction is to say put them all to death but when you think about it its not the right reaction. What it does say well to me is that some people will post with passion and others with their heads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?"

I don't think I'd previously appreciated the strength and depth of feeling some people have on these subjects.

It makes me wonder if their feelings have something to do with a heartfelt literal biblical 'eye for an eye' belief or if it's about a general powerless in some people's lives.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?"

Sorry... I'm having a slow typing day today.

I think the posts about the judicial system in Tunisia and other Middle Eastern countries were interesting.

Most notably, though, a post made very recently took me by surprise. When I started reading the first line, I assumed which was it was going to go... and was honestly surprised (in a good way) that I was wrong.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

In which way?

Did you expect the answers you are reading ?

Serious question btw.

I fully expected some of the posts I've read. However I was surprised by the ratio of capital punishment supporters, as for some reason I thought there would be a more evenly balanced distribution.

A couple of posts made by some people have really made me stop and think... in a good way, I hasten to add."

Yes, I agree totally with your first sentance...and the second proves that the beauty of these debates when they get going is, they do make you stop and think.

There has been many a time were I had one _iew and I thought I was rigid on it and it has changed half way through a debate.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

I agree...and it sure has been.

Most of the time people just debate without trying to ridicule...which is a good thing.

So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?

Which makes for a great debate I think...and yes, I have been guilty of letting my heart rule my head when it comes to certain subjects, especially when it involves child killers...but......although I said maybe the man had his just deserts...I have never a supporter of capital punishment.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?

Sorry... I'm having a slow typing day today.

I think the posts about the judicial system in Tunisia and other Middle Eastern countries were interesting.

Sorry that was my fault, I reposted x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure why I can't see your post, or maybe whether you have deleted it. Regardless here is (apologies to others reading that won't know what I am referring to)

Sorry to hear, but glad that you can talk about it and are recovering. My one question would be, can you honestly say that them being killed would help your recovery? Would it give you any long-term help? Make you feel any better about what they had done to you? I guess I just always felt that the damage was already done and nothing would ever make that better.

The most satisfaction I've found is letting it affect my life as little as possible and using my experience to help others.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Sorry, but I have had to take off peoples personal experiences as Admin explain in the forum rules.

The thread is more a general queston and why it is ok to stay on and stick to general comments please xx

Threads containing racism, threats, nasty stuff like that will be removed and the posters banned or given timeouts. We also don't want discussions of serious illegal subjects like rape, child abuse, illegal drugs because inevitably someone will post about their own crimes / experiences of crimes and we can get hauled up in court to provide evidence. We do this for fun and we don't want the hassle, sorry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was a post from _i 1 get 1 free which seems to have vanished with trace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There was a post from _i 1 get 1 free which seems to have vanished with trace."

See above unfortunately.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"My one question would be, can you honestly say that them being killed would help your recovery?"

I feel I’m “recovered” from the damage they caused, however, the DP never has / never should be seen as a deterrent, it’s punishment for the crimes committed, so, I have no issues about them receiving the DP.

Just to add, whilst I no longer assist, I’ve spent many years helping those who’ve been in a similar situation, which at the time, was part of my therapy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone with strong _iews on ways to best punish offenders and protect the public, still have 6 days left to contribute on a public consultation by the Ministry of Justice`s green paper on punish or rehabilitate and sentencing of offenders....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My one question would be, can you honestly say that them being killed would help your recovery?

Just to add, whilst I no longer assist, I’ve spent many years helping those who’ve been in a similar situation, which at the time, was part of my therapy. "

I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant, although I think that any sentence can be a combination of purposes, such as deterrant, public safety and punishment.

Glad to hear about the therapy and helping others. Sounds like we had similar!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......

I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant, although I think that any sentence can be a combination of purposes, such as deterrant, public safety and punishment.

Glad to hear about the therapy and helping others. Sounds like we had similar!"

If capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent it isn't working. People continue to kill in parts of the world where capital punishment is still in use.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nah cos now he's dead and not experiencing anything, no fear of other inmates, no frustration at being locked up, no screws treating him like a dog and no time to ponder his crimes.

Death was too good for him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......

I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant, although I think that any sentence can be a combination of purposes, such as deterrant, public safety and punishment.

Glad to hear about the therapy and helping others. Sounds like we had similar!

If capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent it isn't working. People continue to kill in parts of the world where capital punishment is still in use."

I doubt any deterrent is 100% effective, there are always going to be socio and psychopathic and people that kill in the heat of the moment.

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By *entadreadMan
over a year ago

Essex

You didn't answer my question...have you ever been there?

The question is an ad hominem.

Whether or not the poster has 'been there' is irrelevant as to whether what she is saying is correct or not."

Bursts out laughing (BOL)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......

I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant, although I think that any sentence can be a combination of purposes, such as deterrant, public safety and punishment.

Glad to hear about the therapy and helping others. Sounds like we had similar!

If capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent it isn't working. People continue to kill in parts of the world where capital punishment is still in use.

I doubt any deterrent is 100% effective, there are always going to be socio and psychopathic and people that kill in the heat of the moment."

It's normal people who kill in the heat of the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......

I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant, although I think that any sentence can be a combination of purposes, such as deterrant, public safety and punishment.

Glad to hear about the therapy and helping others. Sounds like we had similar!

If capital punishment is meant to be a deterrent it isn't working. People continue to kill in parts of the world where capital punishment is still in use.

I doubt any deterrent is 100% effective, there are always going to be socio and psychopathic and people that kill in the heat of the moment.

It's normal people who kill in the heat of the moment. "

I know, that was meant to come across as a separate sort of category, missed out a "people"

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant"

If we’re talking about paedophiles, then the DP will never be seen as a deterrent, in all the research I’ve done on the subject, not once have I found any evidence from anywhere around the world where a paedophile has stated that the fear of the DP has changed their thought process / addiction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ...."

... or of just about any criminal for that matter. They just don't even believe they're going to get caught.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ...."

How can you say that with such certainty?

Fair enough, there may be no such research that says that DP would change their thought process but as you responded to my experience (which I don't consider to be paedophilic) I presumed it wasn't limited to paedophiles. I'm sure that some people would change their behaviour due to the risks of being caught, regardless of the potential sentence.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"I'm sure that some people would change their behaviour due to the risks of being caught, regardless of the potential sentence."

Have a look at Shaira law which is practised in some Countries, do you think the fear of being punished under Sharia Law deters potential criminals?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would disagree that the DP isn't a deterrant

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ....

... or of just about any criminal for that matter. They just don't even believe they're going to get caught."

Agree to a point .....the serious career gangsters that I`ve had contact with take the _iew ..don`t do the crime ..if you don`t want to do the time ...its a calculated risk ..

Alot of crims are recidivists tho aren`t they ..

I do think how we treat the worst in our society reflects on the worst in us ....we compromise ourselves by acting inhumanely ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ....

How can you say that with such certainty?

You'd think so, wouldn't you. All the way from childhood we're taught that actions have consequences. Touch the fire and you'll get burned. Run too fast and fall over and you'll hurt yourself.

At some point that seems to be disregarded in the minds of those who set out with the intention of commiting a crime.

They either adopt the 'it won't happen to me' _iew - the usually mistaken belief they won't get caught or they do a cost/ benefit analysis and decide they likely punishment if captured is worth the advantage (financial, sexual, etc) of doing the crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sure that some people would change their behaviour due to the risks of being caught, regardless of the potential sentence.

Have a look at Shaira law which is practised in some Countries, do you think the fear of being punished under Sharia Law deters potential criminals? "

Chances are it deters some, they often have lower levels of crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agreed consequences for actions aren`t in the mind of such a person ....

How can you say that with such certainty?

You'd think so, wouldn't you. All the way from childhood we're taught that actions have consequences. Touch the fire and you'll get burned. Run too fast and fall over and you'll hurt yourself.

At some point that seems to be disregarded in the minds of those who set out with the intention of commiting a crime.

Unfortunately often their _iew of "it wont happen to me" as you put it in regards to getting caught is correct. It has been estimated that less than 3% of rapes in this country end in a conviction.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"At some point that seems to be disregarded in the minds of those who set out with the intention of commiting a crime"

Paedophiles don’t believe their committing a crime, in “their” mind, their not harming the child, OK, maybe the odd one who goes on to kill a child, but there in the minority.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

i agree with alot of the posts on here .. yes it is a very emotive subject .. and i am one who does tend to let my heart rule over subjects like this but thats just comes from me being a parent (and yes i would do anything within my power to protect my children and anyone elses child for that)... as for DP my head says its not sure as to be honest its a subject i cant think without my heart taken over and think it is probably the same for a few people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Briefly going back to the original thread title for a min...

I do wish that those spouting the moral highground about the law not serving the criminal and that justice should be upheld in regards to punishment of said "murderer" ....

That just as much if not more consideration is given to the victims in all this.

Those criminals didnt spare a thought to those they raped and abused and tortured etc.

In doing said deed they negated any choice in how they were then imprisoned..

duty is to feed, water and clothe.

Not to pamper, educate and keep in better conditions that many struggle to have outside prison.

The law in this country is an ass. its a joke at its best and laughable at its worse.

We put mad dogs down ...those who commit these heinous crimes cannot be cured. thats been proven.

Put them down when enough evidence states they did it and be done with it.

The victims of these horrendous crimes live with the aftermath every day of their lives.

Its they who deserve the voice.

Its they who deserve an end to the horrors of wondering if "they" who did it, will be released. "

totaly agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Capital punishment and paedophilia are emotive subjects so are bound to lead to some questionable posts, but this thread has been enlightening too.

I agree...and it sure has been.

Most of the time people just debate without trying to ridicule...which is a good thing.

So a serious question, whathas enlightened you?

It's possible to be to be a thinker and be passionate. In fact i'd say it was mutually necessary.

Gut reaction isn't passion.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

No justice, has not be served.... when we start taking the law into our own hands and executing people.

it will be a sorry day for us all x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No justice, has not be served.... when we start taking the law into our own hands and executing people.

it will be a sorry day for us all x "

personally i am not a supporter of capital punishment...it's irreversible and the potential for politics to rule and take cognisance of public outrage in an attempt to gain political support could be a major driver...as is seen in some american states.

however, if i'm honest, I think I am more satisfied that I didn't have to make that decision as Damien Fawkes has made it on our behalf.

It has given us a guilt free result...one that I can neither condemn nor condone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do sometimes wish that all the amount of passion we have read on here was given over to those victims of said heinous crimes. And that the law and sentencing reflected the crime commited.

Until that happens we have nothing worth shouting about.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

"I'm sure that some people would change their behaviour due to the risks of being caught, regardless of the potential sentence.

Have a look at Shaira law which is practised in some Countries, do you think the fear of being punished under Sharia Law deters potential criminals? "

It would be impossible to prove whether Sharia law deters criminals or not. Yes, there are still crimes in those countries, but there are also some very, very stupid people. It's entirely possible that there are far fewer crimes under Sharia law, than there would be under a less harsh justice system.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I also wonder when people say kill them, kill them..... Would they actually do the deed or are they wanting someone else to do it.

I have no idea how a victims family would feel... I can't begin to imagine.

I also have no idea how it would feel actually killing someone or being the person who gave the order to kill.

And I pray to god, I never will.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

"I also wonder when people say kill them, kill them..... Would they actually do the deed or are they wanting someone else to do it.

I have no idea how a victims family would feel... I can't begin to imagine.

I also have no idea how it would feel actually killing someone or being the person who gave the order to kill.

And I pray to god, I never will."

You should watch the documentary about Albert Pierrepoint. It might surprise you.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I am sure he ended up totally against the death penalty.... But could be wrong.

Will look it up.

Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am sure he ended up totally against the death penalty.... But could be wrong.

Will look it up.

Thanks "

there's also a film about pierrepoint starring tim spall.

incidentally the father of the child killed by hatch was said to be 'ecstatic'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On being taken to his death chamber in 1994 John Wayne Gacy chided the prison officer that tied him to the chair saying "taking my life won't compensate for the lives of others....this is only a state murder".

That man took 33 lives. I think the world is a better place with his brain in a science jar and his evil dead & gone.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"I also wonder when people say kill them, kill them..... Would they actually do the deed or are they wanting someone else to do it"

This maybe removed because it's my personal “opinion”

I'd be willing to carry out any DP request, seeing any plea in the eyes of those convicted eyes would give me some form of comfort, am I barbaric, no, it's difficult putting into words what satisfaction I would feel, however, I'm of the opinion a great % of those who have suffered at the hands of such perpetrators would be willing to witness if not carry out such an action.

Is it revenge to want to carry out such an action, yes, of course it is, it's human nature to want to hurt those that' have hurt us.

For "some"

Whilst they mange to overcome the event/s and lead a relatively normal life, the only time one can bring closure is watching the perpetrator take their final breath.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For "some"

Whilst they mange to overcome the event/s and lead a relatively normal life, the only time one can bring closure is watching the perpetrator take their final breath."

*Nodds in agreement*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I also wonder when people say kill them, kill them..... Would they actually do the deed or are they wanting someone else to do it

This maybe removed because it's my personal “opinion”

i would like to think that i would be able to do the same thing. until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

They don't do it because they can't help it.

They do it because..... THEY LIKE IT.

I know, I've worked with paedophiles and childkillers.

The justice

system has only one purpose these days, to further careers and make large amounts of money for lawyers and their ilk and has very little to do with protecting the public.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me"

That argument is used most of the time, it's as if hundreds of thousands are innocently going to be executed, one innocent person being executed is one to many, it's not sufficient reasoning for the DP not being reintroduced.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"The justice

system has only one purpose these days, to further careers and make large amounts of money for lawyers and their ilk"

That's a bit unfair, there some some very well established lawyers around who take on numerous cases for free.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They don't do it because they can't help it.

They do it because..... THEY LIKE IT.

I know, I've worked with paedophiles and childkillers. "

Thats a very sweeping statement

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"They don't do it because they can't help it.

They do it because..... THEY LIKE IT.

I know, I've worked with paedophiles and childkillers.

The justice

system has only one purpose these days, to further careers and make large amounts of money for lawyers and their ilk and has very little to do with protecting the public."

In what capacity have you worked with paedophiles and child killers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They don't do it because they can't help it.

They do it because..... THEY LIKE IT.

I know, I've worked with paedophiles and childkillers.

The justice

system has only one purpose these days, to further careers and make large amounts of money for lawyers and their ilk and has very little to do with protecting the public."

That is frankly, bullshit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me

Better for 10 guilty men to walk free than to imprison one innocent one it has been said before.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"Better for 10 guilty men to walk free than to imprison one innocent one it has been said before."

Doesn't prevent numerous Countries around the world implementing the DP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Better for 10 guilty men to walk free than to imprison one innocent one it has been said before.

Doesn't prevent numerous Countries around the world implementing the DP. "

No it doesn't, but i'd argue that they have a more backwards legal systems than ours.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"They don't do it because they can't help it.

They do it because..... THEY LIKE IT.

I know, I've worked with paedophiles and childkillers.

The justice

system has only one purpose these days, to further careers and make large amounts of money for lawyers and their ilk and has very little to do with protecting the public.

In what capacity have you worked with paedophiles and child killers?"

????...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me

And by "putting down" one child rapist/murderer we save many children from the life time of hell they live in.

I know which i choose to do.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"Doesn't prevent numerous Countries around the world implementing the DP.

No it doesn't, but i'd argue that they have a more backwards legal systems than ours."

We'll agree to disagree

The DP should be reintroduced, if the crime committed requires such an action, that should at the discretion of those who've suffered.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me

And by "putting down" one child rapist/murderer we save many children from the life time of hell they live in.

I know which i choose to do. "

And could u live with yourself if you killed someone who was innocent? Let alone the fact that you're not technically saving anyone by killing them, just imprison them for live. Same result.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Ok....but for what crimes?

So we start with child killers, but where does it end?

All murderers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Doesn't prevent numerous Countries around the world implementing the DP.

No it doesn't, but i'd argue that they have a more backwards legal systems than ours.

We'll agree to disagree

The DP should be reintroduced, if the crime committed requires such an action, that should at the discretion of those who've suffered."

Yes. Your idea however is completely unworkable. Even victim impact statements have been shown to have negative effects. However, i think you'd be surprised, many victims do not wish for dp etc, that's why restorative justice is huge at the moment and showing positive effects. Maybe different type of crimes but still potentially workable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok....but for what crimes?

So we start with child killers, but where does it end?

All murderers?

Exactly. And euthanasia is technically murder, but i bet people wouldn't see the people who aid others as murderers worthy of the death penalty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

And could u live with yourself if you killed someone who was innocent? Let alone the fact that you're not technically saving anyone by killing them, just imprison them for live. Same result."

This was mentioned in another thread a wee while back but when we talk about 'imprison for life' has anyone actually considered the cost of doing so?

Give a 20 something child murderer a life sentence with a tariff of 30 years before consideration for parole and you incur a cost of £x.

Make that a whole of life tariff and the cost could easily double - not to mention the impact it'd have on the need for additional prison places, extra staff for those extra places and so on.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"until the day i find i've executed someone who was in fact innocent. then the whole idea comes tumbling down around me

I may be setting myself up for a fall here, but I don't primarily object to capital punishment on the basis of miscarriages of justice taking place... although that is a concern, it's not my biggest concern.

I am primarily against the re-introduction of capital punishment because I believe it's just a sanitised form of vengeance. I think killing someone is barbaric and capital punishment makes Society no better than the people they are killing. From a very early age I was brought up to believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[dons fireproof vest]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

And could u live with yourself if you killed someone who was innocent? Let alone the fact that you're not technically saving anyone by killing them, just imprison them for live. Same result.

This was mentioned in another thread a wee while back but when we talk about 'imprison for life' has anyone actually considered the cost of doing so?

Give a 20 something child murderer a life sentence with a tariff of 30 years before consideration for parole and you incur a cost of £x.

Make that a whole of life tariff and the cost could easily double - not to mention the impact it'd have on the need for additional prison places, extra staff for those extra places and so on."

Rather pay that than the ethical and moral implications of killing someone. We pay for less worthwhile things. MPs expenses anyone?

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"Even victim impact statements have been shown to have negative effects"

Negative effects? for whom?

"However, i think you'd be surprised, many victims do not wish for dp etc, that's why restorative justice is huge at the moment and showing positive effects"

Over the years, I've been involved with numerous organisations, the majority of clients are of the opinion knowing the perpetrator has taken their last breath will allow them to move on.

Your evidence maybe based information available through the judiciary system, my evidence is based on testaments from clients who've suffered.

I refer to “victims” as clients, most “victims” detest being referred to as a victim.

It's worth pointing out, a great many of those who've suffered at the hands of rapists / paedophiles etc., etc, don't pursue redress through the courts, not because they don't have faith in the justice system, it's fear of facing the perpetrator that's the over riding factor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Even victim impact statements have been shown to have negative effects

Negative effects? for whom?

However, i think you'd be surprised, many victims do not wish for dp etc, that's why restorative justice is huge at the moment and showing positive effects. Again, you may have been involved with many, but i prefer statistics from agencies and charities. They provide a more overall _iew, and not just case studies.

Over the years, I've been involved with numerous organisations, the majority of clients are of the opinion knowing the perpetrator has taken their last breath will allow them to move on.

Your evidence maybe based information available through the judiciary system, my evidence is based on testaments from clients who've suffered.

I refer to “victims” as clients, most “victims” detest being referred to as a victim.

For the case and often the victim too. You might not appreciate the terminology but i hate that therapy talk. Call a spade a spade. You don't need to act like a victim to have been a victim.

Yes that's true, its one of the reasons i chose not to pursue, but i also think it's worth noting that many improvements are and have been made to help people give evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Even victim impact statements have been shown to have negative effects

Negative effects? for whom?

Over the years, I've been involved with numerous organisations, the majority of clients are of the opinion knowing the perpetrator has taken their last breath will allow them to move on.

Your evidence maybe based information available through the judiciary system, my evidence is based on testaments from clients who'v

I refer to “victims” as clients, most “victims” detest being referred to as a victim.

For the case and often the victim too. You might not appreciate the terminology but i hate that therapy talk. Call a spade a spade. You don't need to act like a victim to have been a victim.

Yes that's true, its one of the reasons i chose not to pursue, but i also think it's worth noting that many improvements are and have been made to help people give evidence.

Also although you had hands on experience, (as do i) i prefer to work off statistics from agencies and charities as i find they give a more overall _iew than case studies and opinions.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"many improvements are and have been made to help people give evidence. "

You're not getting it, giving evidence is not the issue, it's knowing the perpetrator will NEVER, EVER step in front of those who've made the allegation.

Cases like, Hartly / Brady / are the minority, they will never be released, however, take Ian Whiting, the murderer of Sarah Payne, a convicted paedophile, had he received the DP, Sarah would be alive today.

Life imprisonment doesn't necessarily mean life, receiving the DP certainly does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was a programme on showing a big square in saudi. not sure of the name.

It look beautiful. Very clean and pristeen.

Its also where they behead etc criminals.

The state does not instigate the death penalty, the family of the victim and or victim do.

They can choose that the criminal pays with money..stays in prison or are executed.

So whatever happens in that square falls right back onto the family.

They have to live with their choice.

Most crimnals there know this and can ask for mercy , some get it and some dont.

Paedophiles can not be cured or reintroduce safely back into society.

So are we the tax payer, victims and families expected to keep them in the lap of luxury for ever

We simply cant afford it anymore.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"Paedophiles can not be cured or reintroduce safely back into society. So are we the tax payer, victims and families expected to keep them in the lap of luxury for ever

We simply cant afford it anymore.

That's an interesting choice of words... "Paedophiles can not be cured". If we consider paedophilia to be a mental illness then is killing someone because of an illness they have justified? And if it is, would it be justifiable to kill someone if they had been identified as having that illness but hadn't committed any crime yet? If science permitted a way of identifying the "Peedo Gene", should all foetuses be screened for it and those determined to be affected automatically terminated?

I realise this is kinda taking the thread off topic, so apologies in advance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

I have to say i am not for the death sentence. To take life no matter who's is a hard thing for another man to do. If we brought it back i would suspect not many sane people would want to do it and even less on a regular basis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IF i thought that by doing the job i would rid the world of the scum among us ...I would do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

Thats not correct, its a generalised sweeping statement.

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"IF i thought that by doing the job i would rid the world of the scum among us ...I would do it.

It's far easier said than done. To be in that position where you have to do it isn't nice and i doubt you or many would do it. I know i woldn't volenteer.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

"To take life no matter who's is a hard thing for another man to do."

They MUST pay a price for the crime committed, we can debate as much as we like whether life imprisonment (in this country) is sufficient, it's no good wrapping them in cotton wool, as I fear, is what will happen following the latest incident.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I realise this is kinda taking the thread off topic, so apologies in advance

My take on it is, it isn't a mental illness, it is a sexual preference. Most normal people choose other adults, they don't. How would that be cured?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have to say i am not for the death sentence. To take life no matter who's is a hard thing for another man to do. If we brought it back i would suspect not many sane people would want to do it and even less on a regular basis. "

Perhaps the Ministry of Justice could arrange to auction off the right to be the public executioner on a case by case basis

That'd raise a few bob for Dodgy Dave's coffers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

Thats not correct, its a generalised sweeping statement. "

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

Thats not correct, its a generalised sweeping statement.

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

I suppose that depends on how we define 'cured'. The Sex Offenders Unit at Peterhead seems to get excellent results in that many of those who undergo their programme never re-offend.

Cured? I don't know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"many improvements are and have been made to help people give evidence.

You're not getting it, giving evidence is not the issue, it's knowing the perpetrator will NEVER, EVER step in front of those who've made the allegation.

Life imprisonment doesn't necessarily mean life, receiving the DP certainly does."

No it doesn't. But if you think life imprisonment would have the same point, why not ask or say you'd like life imprisonment to mean life.

And apologies, you weren't that clear, i thought you meant giving evidence in court. If this was the case, then i would hope their attacker was in the court room, otherwise they'd be attempting to prosecute an innocent person.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/02/11 00:46:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

And where is your evidence for this statement

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"To take life no matter who's is a hard thing for another man to do.

Hey don't get me wrong i don' support them but i am one of the very few who has seen capital punishment up front and its not nice. Lots will say "I'll do it" but in reality it is far harder. My time in service opened my eyes to a lot of things. When you have been there so as to speak it does affect you and leave you with bad memories and regrets. Thee are some who like it but frankly they aren't the sort of people you would feel safe with.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

"
Playing devils advocate here Peaches but what if there was a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person was put to death?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Paedophiles can not be cured or reintroduce safely back into society. So are we the tax payer, victims and families expected to keep them in the lap of luxury for ever

We simply cant afford it anymore.

I realise this is kinda taking the thread off topic, so apologies in advance

Maybe we could kill people who kill due to being shcizophrenic (or however you spell it) or other mental illnesses. Hell, why don't we put them in gas chambers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Capital punishment was abolished due to miscarriages of justice, the risk was too great.

Life imprisonment = a lot of taxpayers money supporting these vile people.

It's the 21st Century, DNA can be used to prove beyond doubt, in such convicted circumstances these vile people should lose their lives!

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"Capital punishment was abolished due to miscarriages of justice, the risk was too great.

Life imprisonment = a lot of taxpayers money supporting these vile people.

It's the 21st Century, DNA can be used to prove beyond doubt, in such convicted circumstances these vile people should lose their lives!"

Life is so cheap then? Would you line them up and shoot them? How would barbarity help? I think what we have now is best even if not perfect.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"Maybe we could kill people who kill due to being shcizophrenic (or however you spell it) or other mental illnesses. Hell, why don't we put them in gas chambers?

Damn, you saw where I was going with this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

And where is your evidence for this statement "

Google...

wikilaw...

Bbc

Loads of evidence stating it .

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

"Life is so cheap then? Would you line them up and shoot them? How would barbarity help? I think what we have now is best even if not perfect. "

Agree with you 100%, Mr Big Bad... and that's not just because you're bigger and badder than I am.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

Playing devils advocate here Peaches but what if there was a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person was put to death?"

If by doing the JOB...

I would hope that by the time i was involved ...That all avenues had been looked at...re evidence, dna etc.

And its been proved beyond any doubt he/she did it...

I would have no problem pulling the switch or how ever it was done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Capital punishment was abolished due to miscarriages of justice, the risk was too great.

Life imprisonment = a lot of taxpayers money supporting these vile people.

It's the 21st Century, DNA can be used to prove beyond doubt, in such convicted circumstances these vile people should lose their lives!"

Actually there have been cases where dna has been tampered with. You also have issues of parent/child or others who have relationships with the child. Dependent on the type of dna (obviously not semen) it is potentially explainable.

Even if it is cut and dried guiltyl i'd still not rather live in a country who kills people, regardless of whether its "justice" or not. In my eyes it's still murder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe we could kill people who kill due to being shcizophrenic (or however you spell it) or other mental illnesses. Hell, why don't we put them in gas chambers?

Damn, you saw where I was going with this

2 minds think alike. Just glad to know i'm not the only one!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

But is it a mental illness?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do think passions run high on such an emotive subject.

There are them that want it back and those who dont.

Thats a normal reaction.

It becomes more passionate if you have been on the receiving end of such sick bastards or your family have been affected.

Or you work with victims of crime .

How many more times do we have to read that yet another has been paroled and goes on to do much worse. ?

How many more victims do we have to move because they are terrified and cant sleep or hardly exist because perpetrator of the vicious crime against them is once again allowed to live a few doors down.

My feelings go with the victims and not the criminals everytime

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

Playing devils advocate here Peaches but what if there was a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person was put to death?

If by doing the JOB...

I would hope that by the time i was involved ...That all avenues had been looked at...re evidence, dna etc.

And its been proved beyond any doubt he/she did it...

I would have no problem pulling the switch or how ever it was done. "

To take a life isn't like doing the dishes or or ironing it is a very hard thing to do. Lots of people say yehh i can do that but they can,t. My time in service showed me that and very few can take a life in cold blood. No matter what they have done what you are essentially doing it taking a life from someone who cannot defend them self. It really fucks up your head to do it and i wouldn't be keen on doing it my self and i certainly wouldn't be so selfish as to expect someone to do it for me. I guess i have been in a position a lot of you haven't so can speak from a position that hopefully you all haven't been in. I will say no man or woman should have to do some things though.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM)
over a year ago

birmingham

It's been a great debate folks thanks

however, having considered everyone's opinion, I'm still in favour of the DP

but only for barbaric crimes.

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

Just for the record, as otherwise I fear I may get lynched at the next Social I attend, I do not condone paedophilia, rape, murder, GBH, theft, speeding or tax evasion.

I disagree with capital punishment but I still think paedophiles are evil bastards. I just don't think killing another human being is the answer.

Just wanted to make that clear. You can all put your pitchforks back in your garages now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But is it a mental illness?"

Hard to answer. Guess we may never know. I'd like to think that it's so inherently wrong that it must be. Not to give them an excuse, just that they must be mentally ill to enjoy it or think it's right, much like bestiality (i know unrelated but i hope you see what i meant).

Similar to the gay lesbian bi thing....nature or nurture perhaps?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

Playing devils advocate here Peaches but what if there was a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person was put to death?

If by doing the JOB...

I would hope that by the time i was involved ...That all avenues had been looked at...re evidence, dna etc.

And its been proved beyond any doubt he/she did it...

I would have no problem pulling the switch or how ever it was done.

I fully understand that it isnt an easy job.

It wont ever happen in this country anyways.

So knowing this...Prisons and those in charge of running them should be allowed to have the basic amenities only.

It shouldnt be like billy butlins and when those going in dont mind because its better than what they have on the outside.

Do you know they spend more on a prisoner per meal than they do with oaps in homes.

That in its self is a disgrace .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just for the record, as otherwise I fear I may get lynched at the next Social I attend, I do not condone paedophilia, rape, murder, GBH, theft, speeding or tax evasion.

I disagree with capital punishment but I still think paedophiles are evil bastards. I just don't think killing another human being is the answer.

Just wanted to make that clear. You can all put your pitchforks back in your garages now."

Lol, wishful thinking! Can't you hear the baying for blood?

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"Just for the record, as otherwise I fear I may get lynched at the next Social I attend, I do not condone paedophilia, rape, murder, GBH, theft, speeding or tax evasion.

I disagree with capital punishment but I still think paedophiles are evil bastards. I just don't think killing another human being is the answer.

Just wanted to make that clear. You can all put your pitchforks back in your garages now."

I never thought for a minute you would. And all that pitch fork stuff is over rated as it is really had to get your inner sanity to allow you to pitchfork someone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ....Do you know they spend more on a prisoner per meal than they do with oaps in homes.

That in its self is a disgrace .

Do you know there are 'news'papers other than The Sun?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"They cant be cured because as someone esle states...They enjoy it.

Its not an illness, its a warped sense of whats right and wrong.

They justify it...

Some one suffering a mental illness cant probably do so.

I make no apologies for my _iew.

Its mine and i make no bones about wishing the death penalty back.

The things that commit such horrible crimes have no place in society so why wrap them up in cotton wool and wait for do gooder to come along and release them ?

Playing devils advocate here Peaches but what if there was a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person was put to death?

If by doing the JOB...

I would hope that by the time i was involved ...That all avenues had been looked at...re evidence, dna etc.

And its been proved beyond any doubt he/she did it...

I would have no problem pulling the switch or how ever it was done.

I fully understand that it isnt an easy job.

It wont ever happen in this country anyways.

So knowing this...Prisons and those in charge of running them should be allowed to have the basic amenities only.

It shouldnt be like billy butlins and when those going in dont mind because its better than what they have on the outside.

Do you know they spend more on a prisoner per meal than they do with oaps in homes.

That in its self is a disgrace .

"
Peaches i really dont think you have any idea what it would be like to take a life, im sorry , square it all you like, i have been present when people have died AND I DONT MEAN RELATIVES OR PPL CLOSE TO ME its not an easy thing to go through, can you seriously say it wouldnt affect you???? I beg to differ.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

And where is your evidence for this statement

Google...

wikilaw...

Bbc

Loads of evidence stating it ."

Yes exactly - other peoples evidence, not your own.

You cannot state things like, they cant be cured, they enjoy doing it, they cant help it. I am not a psychiatrist and I dont know if you are, but if you are not, then you dont have the evidence to group people together in this way. The facts you have stated are maybe true of SOME people but not all, a lot of the evidence you've read from websites is media sensationalism.

And that is why we cannot let people take the law into their own hands. Because theyve heard information from other people, who've heard it from such and such, and it goes on, etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im not saying it would be easy and that i wouldnt be affected. It stands to reason i would be .

What im trying to get across is the fact that we as a population in this country give the criminals better treatment than the victims.

And thats wrong on all counts.

The balance has shifted and we have no idea on how to put things right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

I have absolutely no objections as to what people read.

What concerns me is when the contents of tabloid trash are treated as gospel on the grounds that 'it was in the paper so it must be true'.

The same goes for what appears online.

I have no idea whether The Sun or any other red top has ever printed the 'prisoners get more spent on food than OAPs' story - but if they haven't it's only a matter of time before they do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

And where is your evidence for this statement

Google...

wikilaw...

Bbc

Loads of evidence stating it .

Yes exactly - other peoples evidence, not your own.

And that is why we cannot let people take the law into their own hands. Because theyve heard information from other people, who've heard it from such and such, and it goes on, etc etc. "

To be honest i dont give a monkeys fart who said what or when.

I do know that they deserve no place in society or the luxury of prisons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ....Do you know they spend more on a prisoner per meal than they do with oaps in homes.

That in its self is a disgrace .

Do you know there are 'news'papers other than The Sun?"

Sarcasm was bound to rear its ugly head.

And actually. i read better papers than that so i have no need to borrow yours ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im really not meaning to be rude in any of my posts and a certain part of me feels the same way about abhorrent crimes. I hate crimes against children, I cannot understand how anyone could do it either, but realistically taking the law into our own hands would never work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/02/11 01:19:35]

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

They can not be cured.only treated and medically castrated

And where is your evidence for this statement

Google...

wikilaw...

Bbc

Loads of evidence stating it .

Yes exactly - other peoples evidence, not your own.

And that is why we cannot let people take the law into their own hands. Because theyve heard information from other people, who've heard it from such and such, and it goes on, etc etc.

To be honest i dont give a monkeys fart who said what or when.

I do know that they deserve no place in society or the luxury of prisons."
They have lost their liberty, how is that a luxury?

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By *arambarMan
over a year ago

swindon

Fortunately I've not had to visit a prison - are they really as luxurious as they're made out to be?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fortunately I've not had to visit a prison - are they really as luxurious as they're made out to be?"

Been to Durham. I would say a resounding no. And i lived in student accommodation at the time.

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By *ig badMan
over a year ago

Up North :-)

"Fortunately I've not had to visit a prison - are they really as luxurious as they're made out to be?"

Nope most are pretty shitty to be honest an i have only visited.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fortunately I've not had to visit a prison - are they really as luxurious as they're made out to be?

Been to Durham. I would say a resounding no. And i lived in student accommodation at the time."

I've been in Durham and Frankland. Durham is a dreadful place full of not very nice people.

Frankland is a much nicer environment full of really, really unpleasant people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been in long lartin high security and that IS so cushy.

Been in winston green...

And before you ask...not as a crim but for a job as a warder.

Brother was also a p/officer in lots of um and finished at the one on he isle of wight .

Most high security are better maintained than the lesser prisons.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

For "some"

Whilst they mange to overcome the event/s and lead a relatively normal life, the only time one can bring closure is watching the perpetrator take their final breath.

*Nodds in agreement*"

agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

Because some people look down their noses at others and assume that the object of their ridicule must be of an intelligence far below their own, ergo, they must read newspapers that are considered to be substandard to their own source of reliable? information.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes thats spot on Wishy and it wasnt very nice. Whilst I take the emotion out and look at the wider picture in relation to all this - I have enjoyed a certain persons posts on here because you can tell from the passionate nature of her posts that she is essentially a really good person

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

Very intelligent people have been known to read The Sun - they just don't believe every word it prints.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

I have absolutely no objections as to what people read.

What concerns me is when the contents of tabloid trash are treated as gospel on the grounds that 'it was in the paper so it must be true'.

The same goes for what appears online.

I have no idea whether The Sun or any other red top has ever printed the 'prisoners get more spent on food than OAPs' story - but if they haven't it's only a matter of time before they do."

How do you know that people think what they read is gospel?

And to be fair, wether you have any objection or not as to what people read, the comment was meant as a put down, and that is what I am commenting on.

Let's keep the put downs out of threads as it just goes off on a tangent then as people quite rightly take umbrage.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"Here we go, why do we always end up with someone snearing at what other people read when the debate was going so well

Very intelligent people have been known to read The Sun - they just don't believe every word it prints."

That will be just like not everyone believes what someone else writes in these forums then?

They might have their own _iews/beliefs/etc that they have built up over time and just because someone else doesn't agree with them, it doesn't make them wrong.

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By *ensualfire88Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Yes thats spot on Wishy and it wasnt very nice. Whilst I take the emotion out and look at the wider picture in relation to all this - I have enjoyed a certain persons posts on here because you can tell from the passionate nature of her posts that she is essentially a really good person

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..................

They might have their own _iews/beliefs/etc that they have built up over time and just because someone else doesn't agree with them, it doesn't make them wrong.

Agreed, but just because they've built up these _iews/ beliefs/ etc over time don't make them right.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"..................

They might have their own _iews/beliefs/etc that they have built up over time and just because someone else doesn't agree with them, it doesn't make them wrong.

Agreed, but just because they've built up these _iews/beliefs/etc over time don't make them right. "

Isn't that just what I said?

They are their own _iews/beliefs/etc and not everyone will agree with them, but who's to say if they are right or wrong? You?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..................

They might have their own _iews/beliefs/etc that they have built up over time and just because someone else doesn't agree with them, it doesn't make them wrong.

Agreed, but just because they've built up these _iews/beliefs/etc over time don't make them right.

Isn't that just what I said?

They are their own _iews/beliefs/etc and not everyone will agree with them, but who's to say if they are right or wrong? You?

Me or anyone who thinks someone's _iews or beliefs are wrong should challenge them.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside

"..................

They might have their own _iews/beliefs/etc that they have built up over time and just because someone else doesn't agree with them, it doesn't make them wrong.

Agreed, but just because they've built up these _iews/beliefs/etc over time don't make them right.

Isn't that just what I said?

They are their own _iews/beliefs/etc and not everyone will agree with them, but who's to say if they are right or wrong? You?

Me or anyone who thinks someone's _iews or beliefs are wrong should challenge them."

I will leave you to challenge them then.

I'm off out soon to buy a "red top" Sunday newspaper as I hear they have another sensational exclusive "swinging" story running today and it's all gotta be true, as it's in the papers ye know.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"..............

And could u live with yourself if you killed someone who was innocent? Let alone the fact that you're not technically saving anyone by killing them, just imprison them for live. Same result.

This was mentioned in another thread a wee while back but when we talk about 'imprison for life' has anyone actually considered the cost of doing so?

Give a 20 something child murderer a life sentence with a tariff of 30 years before consideration for parole and you incur a cost of £x.

Make that a whole of life tariff and the cost could easily double - not to mention the impact it'd have on the need for additional prison places, extra staff for those extra places and so on."

A study from the US i read stated that to execute a 20yr old male would cost around $5 million dollars, once all legal avenues of appeal had been explored.

To incarcarate him for the rest of his natural life would cost around $2.5 million dollars.

It would actually cost more to execute than to imprison, unless of course we did away with the appeals process - but do we want to be less than the United States in regards to Criminal Justice?

It's all moot anyway, membership of the EU precludes the addition of the DP to the statute book.

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