Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"who else is on the list? is cameron himself on it? although he may have got his tax paying advice from his dad so..." . It says 12 current heads of state and 60 friends of heads of state. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"How the hell did I post it in here, sorry admin "Naughty boy | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"How the hell did I post it in here, sorry admin
Naughty boy". My eyes are fucked... Too much wanking  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Tip of the iceberg and no surprise, though having the detailed confirmation is good. Sickening, how those with more than enough to fund a small country, want to evade paying their fair share." i think they enjoy being criminals and being above the law. i know i do now, whereas before i would rather starve than be a cunt but i know which one makes me life easier and better. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"How the hell did I post it in here, sorry admin
Naughty boy.
My eyes are fucked... Too much wanking "Forgiven then, mitigating circumstances | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Those poor multi-millionaires are being taxed unfairly. It's simply patriotic that they hide away their own honestly-acquired money secretly. Tax them less and they'll instantly turn in to gawd-fearing upright folks with a proper social conscience." . This is the current spin!. Ahh there doing it for genuine reasons, because top band tax is 50%... That's proven a lie they will avoid tax like everybody else if they can get away with it.... And let's face facts they are getting away with it. It's time for serious fines and quit these pathetic a few % fines!... Everybody who watches football knows that a 50,000 pound fine does not deter the top footballers... It's one days pay!. . Some of these cases, the tax evader is telling the tax man how much there'll pay back!!... there'll just join the next scheme next year with that attitude. Make the fine the same as the tax evaded and we might actually see them stop | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm burning my Panama cigar now in protest "I get mine from Cuba :P | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm burning my Panama cigar now in protest
I get mine from Cuba :P". You filthy capitalist  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though..." **Probably**  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though... **Probably** "It just sounds more hassle than it's worth | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though..." . Yes but the reason that most people don't do it, is not from the oh the humanity bit... It's the oh the prison and big fine bit!. The difference is very simple, one section of society faces punitive action and the other faces a slap on the wrist | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though.... Yes but the reason that most people don't do it, is not from the oh the humanity bit... It's the oh the prison and big fine bit!. The difference is very simple, one section of society faces punitive action and the other faces a slap on the wrist" Well no, it's usually because the majority don't have enough wealth for it to be worth their while (or the accountants and legal forms while). I'd dodge way more tax if I could. I can't, because my financial affairs are ridiculously straightforward because I'm taxed as an employee via PAYE. If I had a way of channelling it offshore via a dodgy trust and saving myself half the amount I pay, I probably would. But I don't earn enough to bother. In countries with less "robust" tax systems it's widespread, because there are simple ways for the many to dodge tax as well as the few. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though.... Yes but the reason that most people don't do it, is not from the oh the humanity bit... It's the oh the prison and big fine bit!. The difference is very simple, one section of society faces punitive action and the other faces a slap on the wrist Well no, it's usually because the majority don't have enough wealth for it to be worth their while (or the accountants and legal forms while). I'd dodge way more tax if I could. I can't, because my financial affairs are ridiculously straightforward because I'm taxed as an employee via PAYE. If I had a way of channelling it offshore via a dodgy trust and saving myself half the amount I pay, I probably would. But I don't earn enough to bother. In countries with less "robust" tax systems it's widespread, because there are simple ways for the many to dodge tax as well as the few. " I would be inclined to agree that many who are outraged would also do it themselves. Tax avoidance is only one issue though and that happens quite freely in many over off shore jurisdictions. The difference with Panama is that it's laws allow so much privacy in corporations. I'm quite interested in stuff other than tax avoidance which will come out. Scott Young's name has popped up on the list, the guy who went from being worth billions to (allegedly) nothing over night when his divorce was going through. After some jail time and millions spent on litigation his wife was awarded £26 mill but I don't think she saw it before be died. What happens next will be really interesting. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though.... Yes but the reason that most people don't do it, is not from the oh the humanity bit... It's the oh the prison and big fine bit!. The difference is very simple, one section of society faces punitive action and the other faces a slap on the wrist Well no, it's usually because the majority don't have enough wealth for it to be worth their while (or the accountants and legal forms while). I'd dodge way more tax if I could. I can't, because my financial affairs are ridiculously straightforward because I'm taxed as an employee via PAYE. If I had a way of channelling it offshore via a dodgy trust and saving myself half the amount I pay, I probably would. But I don't earn enough to bother. In countries with less "robust" tax systems it's widespread, because there are simple ways for the many to dodge tax as well as the few. " . Yes we all would dodge tax, if my fine for dodging was £100 dodging £2000 pounds of tax... I'd be at it all week long!. The fact is the fine to me is equivalently large to the amount I'm evading so I don't do it, because it's simply not worth the risk!. Now if you want to dodge 10 million pounds of tax and the fine is a 100,000 or even 400,000 you might be tempted a little more!. I reckon if the fine was 10 million pounds you might think fuck it, I'll just pay the friggin tax | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though.... Yes but the reason that most people don't do it, is not from the oh the humanity bit... It's the oh the prison and big fine bit!. The difference is very simple, one section of society faces punitive action and the other faces a slap on the wrist Well no, it's usually because the majority don't have enough wealth for it to be worth their while (or the accountants and legal forms while). I'd dodge way more tax if I could. I can't, because my financial affairs are ridiculously straightforward because I'm taxed as an employee via PAYE. If I had a way of channelling it offshore via a dodgy trust and saving myself half the amount I pay, I probably would. But I don't earn enough to bother. In countries with less "robust" tax systems it's widespread, because there are simple ways for the many to dodge tax as well as the few. I would be inclined to agree that many who are outraged would also do it themselves. Tax avoidance is only one issue though and that happens quite freely in many over off shore jurisdictions. The difference with Panama is that it's laws allow so much privacy in corporations. I'm quite interested in stuff other than tax avoidance which will come out. Scott Young's name has popped up on the list, the guy who went from being worth billions to (allegedly) nothing over night when his divorce was going through. After some jail time and millions spent on litigation his wife was awarded £26 mill but I don't think she saw it before be died. What happens next will be really interesting. " Yep...and the reason we're getting people to "quick look the other way!" towards Russia/Putin et al is because there appears to be large scale money laundering going on which I'd argue is in a different league to tax avoidance. Anyway, lots more to come out, and I'm finding it fascinating! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though..." I think most people would. But why let that get in the middle of another political rant. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though... I think most people would. But why let that get in the middle of another political rant. "Yeah I've never met a tradesman who offered a discount if I paid cash... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. " . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . See Georgy porgy, is busy selling off infrastructure(family silver) while racking up huge debts, he's the worst type of chancellor there is, he's taking money out of the pockets of disabled people meaning less spending on the high St and no tax from the spending, while giving the money to the 0.1% who then take the money overseas into off shore tax haven's paying no tax at all, while racking up huge debts with pfi from banks like hsbc who are buying our fucking hospitals with ill gotten gains of doing the friggin tax evading... . . Alas nobody gives a shit until it all goes tits and then there'll be crying into their credit card statements about... How could this happen in the UK...I mean for crying out loud.. This isn't Italy! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . " Put the drink down and think about for a second. I'm not defending tax havens here, just clarifying that interest doesn't generate itself. The money gets invested somewhere in order for someone to pay interest on it. You know full well that long term improvements in living standards come from the reduced price of useful things (e.g. medicine, infrastructure, food) but we also spend a lot of money for fun but it doesn't really contribute to any greater good (e.g. beer, another pair of shoes or a designer handbag). So the idea that people spending money in the high street is a more Nobel cause than having the money in a bank (which might get lent to a start up company) is somewhat flawed. But otherwise, hang em, hang em all... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I feel like I've reached peak tax avoidance outrage. I'm honestly struggling to make myself give a shit they way I probably would have done a few years ago, everyone has been bleating on about it for so long now." . . Don't panic, it's a perfectly human reaction. . . At these times you've gotta get mad!. I don't want you to write to your local MP because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the recession and the inflation and the terrorists and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, im a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!. Now once you've got mad we can figure out what to do! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . Put the drink down and think about for a second. I'm not defending tax havens here, just clarifying that interest doesn't generate itself. The money gets invested somewhere in order for someone to pay interest on it. You know full well that long term improvements in living standards come from the reduced price of useful things (e.g. medicine, infrastructure, food) but we also spend a lot of money for fun but it doesn't really contribute to any greater good (e.g. beer, another pair of shoes or a designer handbag). So the idea that people spending money in the high street is a more Nobel cause than having the money in a bank (which might get lent to a start up company) is somewhat flawed. But otherwise, hang em, hang em all... " . Your living in the past old friend, were in the neo liberal world of finance!. If having money in the bank and lending to start up business mattered... Well we wouldn't be at 0% interest rates would we?. No this is the extend and pretend era of spined bullshit! There's no bubble in start up business, no giant rush of entrepreneurship.. They want assets not good ideas | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
Saying that if the main stream are reporting it the tracks that count as evidence in law will have been covered as they move onto the next best scheme
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . Put the drink down and think about for a second. I'm not defending tax havens here, just clarifying that interest doesn't generate itself. The money gets invested somewhere in order for someone to pay interest on it. You know full well that long term improvements in living standards come from the reduced price of useful things (e.g. medicine, infrastructure, food) but we also spend a lot of money for fun but it doesn't really contribute to any greater good (e.g. beer, another pair of shoes or a designer handbag). So the idea that people spending money in the high street is a more Nobel cause than having the money in a bank (which might get lent to a start up company) is somewhat flawed. But otherwise, hang em, hang em all... . Your living in the past old friend, were in the neo liberal world of finance!. If having money in the bank and lending to start up business mattered... Well we wouldn't be at 0% interest rates would we?. No this is the extend and pretend era of spined bullshit! There's no bubble in start up business, no giant rush of entrepreneurship.. They want assets not good ideas " In this country I'm inclined to agree but we are a cog in the wheel and there are plenty of investment opportunities worldwide with stupidly good returns... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Panama Papers: Cameron's father was Mossack Fonseca client David Cameron has called for greater transparency in tax havens and a clampdown on aggressive tax avoidance and evasion. But documents leaked from one of the world's biggest offshore specialists, Mossack Fonseca, reveal that his late father used one of the most secretive tools of the offshore trade after he helped set up a fund for investors. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-35961422 "the same david cameron who critisised jimmy carrs perfectley legal tax afairs as Moraly indefensable hmmmmmm so what does that make your daddy david ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd all do it too. If I had the opportunity to fiddle my benefits I probably would, just as loads of people do, and if I had the opportunity to fiddle my tax I'd do that too. Stop making out like one is noble and one is an outrage because of the quantum involved." It's not really about bring noble though, is it? We all know that it goes on, but this revelation is clear proof. Fiddling benefits seems to get so many people hot under the collar, but for fiddling taxes it's a slap on the back for "beating" the system. FWIW, I rejected the opportunity to set up an umbrella company when I did some private work as I realised it was simply a tax dodge. It didn't sit well with me, though I do know others who are happy to boast of the savings they make. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . Put the drink down and think about for a second. I'm not defending tax havens here, just clarifying that interest doesn't generate itself. The money gets invested somewhere in order for someone to pay interest on it. You know full well that long term improvements in living standards come from the reduced price of useful things (e.g. medicine, infrastructure, food) but we also spend a lot of money for fun but it doesn't really contribute to any greater good (e.g. beer, another pair of shoes or a designer handbag). So the idea that people spending money in the high street is a more Nobel cause than having the money in a bank (which might get lent to a start up company) is somewhat flawed. But otherwise, hang em, hang em all... . Your living in the past old friend, were in the neo liberal world of finance!. If having money in the bank and lending to start up business mattered... Well we wouldn't be at 0% interest rates would we?. No this is the extend and pretend era of spined bullshit! There's no bubble in start up business, no giant rush of entrepreneurship.. They want assets not good ideas In this country I'm inclined to agree but we are a cog in the wheel and there are plenty of investment opportunities worldwide with stupidly good returns... " . Monsanto ain't working on a drought resistant poppy for nothing!!. Still I draw the line at anything worse than tax exempt home brew! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd all do it too. If I had the opportunity to fiddle my benefits I probably would, just as loads of people do, and if I had the opportunity to fiddle my tax I'd do that too. Stop making out like one is noble and one is an outrage because of the quantum involved. It's not really about bring noble though, is it? We all know that it goes on, but this revelation is clear proof. Fiddling benefits seems to get so many people hot under the collar, but for fiddling taxes it's a slap on the back for "beating" the system. FWIW, I rejected the opportunity to set up an umbrella company when I did some private work as I realised it was simply a tax dodge. It didn't sit well with me, though I do know others who are happy to boast of the savings they make." not even fiddling benefits but just claiming them gets many people treat you like scum or unworthy of life. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd all do it too. If I had the opportunity to fiddle my benefits I probably would, just as loads of people do, and if I had the opportunity to fiddle my tax I'd do that too. Stop making out like one is noble and one is an outrage because of the quantum involved. It's not really about bring noble though, is it? We all know that it goes on, but this revelation is clear proof. Fiddling benefits seems to get so many people hot under the collar, but for fiddling taxes it's a slap on the back for "beating" the system. FWIW, I rejected the opportunity to set up an umbrella company when I did some private work as I realised it was simply a tax dodge. It didn't sit well with me, though I do know others who are happy to boast of the savings they make." My point is you should criticise neither or both. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though..." Same here  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"While it's all outrageous and appalling etc etc and I'm wringing my hands at the humanity...I can't with clear conscience say that if I was rich enough I wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing. I'd probably draw the line at money laundering though..." You see, that's why I really can't get worked up about this. There are things people do I know I'd never do and get indignant about. There are things people do I'd not do but could understand why others do, and there's situations like this: if I could hold onto more of my money I would. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"storm in a tea cup - will blow over... and normal service will be resumed. " By normal service, do you mean ~500 years of abuse by our leaders culminating in an uprising? If so, I'm with you comrad... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I very much doubt that there will ever be an uprising in this country. The powers that be have everything stitched up tight and can get away with almost anything. Look at Greville Janner or Cyril Smith. The establishment act with impunity because we let them get away with it." I bet there were pessimists saying that in 42, 1065 & 1641... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all. "And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon"¿Qué? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all. "If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?"We will wait for the public reaction to the continued revelations but you can legislate all you like in one country - unless there is a crackdown on tax havens *world wide*, you're pissing in the wind. Although, tbh, the UK does run quite a few (Isle of Man, Jersey, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Bermuda...). Hmmm. It's almost like George Osborne really could do something... popular? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon
¿Qué?"I just hate it when lefties make sweeping generalisations about I'll defined categories
Let's ignore the inconvenient fact that 2 of the richest men in the world have donated the majority of their wealth to solving problems that governments can't be arsed with. Minor things like eliminating curable disease in Africa...
Selfish bastards. They should have paid it in taxes so MPs can have duck houses and limousine rides. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?"That would be unfair!  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I very much doubt that there will ever be an uprising in this country. The powers that be have everything stitched up tight and can get away with almost anything. Look at Greville Janner or Cyril Smith. The establishment act with impunity because we let them get away with it. I bet there were pessimists saying that in 42, 1065 & 1641... " I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I wish things would change, but there is too much apathy from the general public. Our assets have been sold off piecemeal, unions emasculated, NHS and the unemployed demonised, and disabled and seriously ill people forced back into work by unqualified jobsworths. Yet still there is barely a murmur from the population at large. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon
¿Qué?
I just hate it when lefties make sweeping generalisations about I'll defined categories
Let's ignore the inconvenient fact that 2 of the richest men in the world have donated the majority of their wealth to solving problems that governments can't be arsed with. Minor things like eliminating curable disease in Africa...
Selfish bastards. They should have paid it in taxes so MPs can have duck houses and limousine rides. "Mmmmkay... So what are you saying? The rich should pay what they want? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon
¿Qué?
I just hate it when lefties make sweeping generalisations about I'll defined categories
Let's ignore the inconvenient fact that 2 of the richest men in the world have donated the majority of their wealth to solving problems that governments can't be arsed with. Minor things like eliminating curable disease in Africa...
Selfish bastards. They should have paid it in taxes so MPs can have duck houses and limousine rides. "Yeah fuck progressive taxation, let's go back to the good ole days of voluntary philanthropy. It seemed to work well. Indeed, why should the super rich pay taxes at all? They don't use public health or education systems, or welfare. It's just soooooo unfair that they have to subsidise the great unwashed with their ridiculous ideas about society. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon
¿Qué?
I just hate it when lefties make sweeping generalisations about I'll defined categories
Let's ignore the inconvenient fact that 2 of the richest men in the world have donated the majority of their wealth to solving problems that governments can't be arsed with. Minor things like eliminating curable disease in Africa...
Selfish bastards. They should have paid it in taxes so MPs can have duck houses and limousine rides.
Mmmmkay...
So what are you saying?
The rich should pay what they want?
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I very much doubt that there will ever be an uprising in this country. The powers that be have everything stitched up tight and can get away with almost anything. Look at Greville Janner or Cyril Smith. The establishment act with impunity because we let them get away with it. I bet there were pessimists saying that in 42, 1065 & 1641... I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I wish things would change, but there is too much apathy from the general public. Our assets have been sold off piecemeal, unions emasculated, NHS and the unemployed demonised, and disabled and seriously ill people forced back into work by unqualified jobsworths. Yet still there is barely a murmur from the population at large. " Focus on inventing a time machine then? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! " So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I very much doubt that there will ever be an uprising in this country. The powers that be have everything stitched up tight and can get away with almost anything. Look at Greville Janner or Cyril Smith. The establishment act with impunity because we let them get away with it. I bet there were pessimists saying that in 42, 1065 & 1641... I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I wish things would change, but there is too much apathy from the general public. Our assets have been sold off piecemeal, unions emasculated, NHS and the unemployed demonised, and disabled and seriously ill people forced back into work by unqualified jobsworths. Yet still there is barely a murmur from the population at large. Focus on inventing a time machine then? " Pish-posh and poppycock! Any fule kno that *if* you could build a time machine you couldn't go back in time to a point before it was invented. Duh. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying..." You only included "the rich" in your statement. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying... You only included "the rich" in your statement." So what are you saying? Is the tax system fine? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! " Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying... You only included "the rich" in your statement. So what are you saying? Is the tax system fine? "I'm saying we should hang everyone who evades tax, not fine then, hang them. "The rich", cash-only tradesmen, that guy who picked up a tenner and didn't declare it and Cameron's daddy too. Hang the lot of them. Is that clear enough for you? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying... You only included "the rich" in your statement. So what are you saying? Is the tax system fine?
I'm saying we should hang everyone who evades tax, not fine then, hang them.
"The rich", cash-only tradesmen, that guy who picked up a tenner and didn't declare it and Cameron's daddy too. Hang the lot of them.
Is that clear enough for you? "You don;t actually believe that
One more time...
Is the tax system fine? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I found a tenner once. Didn't declare a thing. Fuck the system! " . And there you have the solution! . . I have nothing to offer except blood sweat and tears!. . . FUCK THE SYSTEM! ... haha yeah, there fucking it themselves with their own greed!. And it won't be the poor crying in the street when it breaks! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Panama Papers: Cameron's father was Mossack Fonseca client David Cameron has called for greater transparency in tax havens and a clampdown on aggressive tax avoidance and evasion. But documents leaked from one of the world's biggest offshore specialists, Mossack Fonseca, reveal that his late father used one of the most secretive tools of the offshore trade after he helped set up a fund for investors. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-35961422 the same david cameron who critisised jimmy carrs perfectley legal tax afairs as Moraly indefensable hmmmmmm so what does that make your daddy david ?"I'd say that makes him his daddy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! So the tax system is fine? I don;t follow what you're saying... You only included "the rich" in your statement. So what are you saying? Is the tax system fine?
I'm saying we should hang everyone who evades tax, not fine then, hang them.
"The rich", cash-only tradesmen, that guy who picked up a tenner and didn't declare it and Cameron's daddy too. Hang the lot of them.
Is that clear enough for you?
You don;t actually believe that
One more time...
Is the tax system fine?"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. " Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair! "Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah " . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You'd all do it too. If I had the opportunity to fiddle my benefits I probably would, just as loads of people do, and if I had the opportunity to fiddle my tax I'd do that too. Stop making out like one is noble and one is an outrage because of the quantum involved." Stop being so reasonable and logical. This isn't the time or place. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it?" Go hire one of the guys who worked at that company, get them to write me a nice report on how they did it, give the report to civil servants and tell them to get the fuck on with stopping it... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal!" I think rich people buy loads of stuff too though - houses, cars, jewellery, expensive dinners, clothes, shoes, holidays, fashion, boats... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal!" It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it? Go hire one of the guys who worked at that company, get them to write me a nice report on how they did it, give the report to civil servants and tell them to get the fuck on with stopping it... " So no sensible answer then? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it? Go hire one of the guys who worked at that company, get them to write me a nice report on how they did it, give the report to civil servants and tell them to get the fuck on with stopping it... So no sensible answer then? "It worked for Frank Abagnale and the FBI... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it? Go hire one of the guys who worked at that company, get them to write me a nice report on how they did it, give the report to civil servants and tell them to get the fuck on with stopping it... So no sensible answer then?
It worked for Frank Abagnale and the FBI...
It's ok if you won't answer the question "I suppose you'd prefer a good old fashioned revolution | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
". Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!. . Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%. . Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%. Now that's unfair tax in your own words! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Of course it isn't, what kind of a stupid question is that!? It's probably one of the most idiotic systems I've ever seen. Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. So what's the problem and what would you do to fix it? Go hire one of the guys who worked at that company, get them to write me a nice report on how they did it, give the report to civil servants and tell them to get the fuck on with stopping it... So no sensible answer then?
It worked for Frank Abagnale and the FBI...
It's ok if you won't answer the question
I suppose you'd prefer a good old fashioned revolution"Nope, as it goes, I don;t believe in revolution as a viable means of change... But we were trying to get to the bottom of what it is you believe, vis-a-vis this tax situation... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. " . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I found a tenner once. Didn't declare a thing. Fuck the system! . And there you have the solution! . . I have nothing to offer except blood sweat and tears!. . . FUCK THE SYSTEM! ... haha yeah, there fucking it themselves with their own greed!. And it won't be the poor crying in the street when it breaks! " I cant say too much in case they come for their cut of my find. Shhhhh....ok | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!"that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! I think rich people buy loads of stuff too though - houses, cars, jewellery, expensive dinners, clothes, shoes, holidays, fashion, boats..." . You can't buy houses, boats, cars or jewellery with money from tax evasion.... Well you can but don't say I didn't warn you! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda?" I'm surprised, I thought working cash in hand and not paying tax on it was against the rules. I stand corrected. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!
that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate.
". Because your paying a proportion of what you earn!. . And somebody earning a million can afford 50% tax. Whereas somebody earning 20k really can't!. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!
that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate.
.
Because your paying a proportion of what you earn!.
.
And somebody earning a million can afford 50% tax.
Whereas somebody earning 20k really can't!.
"It's not about affordability . 20k person is not being asked to pay tax at 50%. 1million person is unhappy paying more so finds a way to reduce the amount to be paid - so in real terms, less is paid! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!
that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate.
.
Because your paying a proportion of what you earn!.
.
And somebody earning a million can afford 50% tax.
Whereas somebody earning 20k really can't!.
"Well who's fault is that? Hardly the millionaires is it. If you're not clever enough, lucky enough, or dishonest enough to earn a million, well tough shit! You aren't having any of mine. It's the way of the right  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!
that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate.
.
Because your paying a proportion of what you earn!.
.
And somebody earning a million can afford 50% tax.
Whereas somebody earning 20k really can't!.
It's not about affordability .
20k person is not being asked to pay tax at 50%.
1million person is unhappy paying more so finds a way to reduce the amount to be paid - so in real terms, less is paid!". Yeah well have look round the world to the countries that have that attitude... Russia, south Africa, Brazil, the US.... The paragons of utopia!. . . Whereas Sweden, Germany, Holland, France the UK, Norway, Finland, Australia.... There just shitholes?. As vw say, you get what you pay for | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I suppose the bottom line is that if everyone dodged tax like the rich do then there would be no money for roads, police, defence, schools, health... Fuck all.
If everyone was required to pay the same rate of tax, there would be less tax avoidance ?
That would be unfair!
Why is it any more unfair than those who earn more being taxed at a higher rate?
.
Because it's proportional and proportional is the fairest system... You know like fines and shit!. And that's why indirect taxation is a very unfair tax!.
.
Take somebody that earns £250 a week after direct tax and spending the rest just living there effective tax rate is about 70%.
.
Now take the professional footballer earning 300k a week even if he's paying full tax (which he won't be) and then spending say a further 50k every week living... His effective tax rate is only 66%.
Now that's unfair tax in your own words!
that doesn't answer why it is fair to tax the higher earner at a higher tax rate.
.
Because your paying a proportion of what you earn!.
.
And somebody earning a million can afford 50% tax.
Whereas somebody earning 20k really can't!.
It's not about affordability .
20k person is not being asked to pay tax at 50%.
1million person is unhappy paying more so finds a way to reduce the amount to be paid - so in real terms, less is paid!.
Yeah well have look round the world to the countries that have that attitude... Russia, south Africa, Brazil, the US.... The paragons of utopia!.
.
.
Whereas Sweden, Germany, Holland, France the UK, Norway, Finland, Australia.... There just shitholes?.
As vw say, you get what you pay for"Yes, but I don't see why I should pay more for it than the next person. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"After a quick scan it appears most of the Arab royal families are on it... Obviously!. 30 billionaires, Lionel messi, most of the FIFA officials, film stars including Jackie chan... Gangsters, mob men, Mafia.. Obviously. Chinese leaders.. Obviously Vladimir Putin (associates) Victor poroshenko.. Ahh the EU front man...very obvious! The top ten of banks opening shell corporations in Panama for clients. Ahem number 2 HSBC... Well who'd have guessed.. Well they've got previous for laundering money for Hezbollah and Mexican drug lords, British politicans they love to get their dirty fingers in every pie. And for all you conspiracy nuts number 8 was Rothschild. Most of the in between ones were European social,ubs etc etc" Was Jean Claude Juncker on the list? He has a very, very, very dodgy history on tax avoidance/evasion and helping multi national companies avoid/evade tax in his home country of Luxembourg. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda?" You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. " Is it not "business people" who are paying people cash in hand and breaking the law? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal!" Cash in hand work is still tax evasion. As is the self-employed doing all sorts to avoid tax - like buying some massive car as a company asset. Employing a family member as a Company Secretary etc etc. Don't start me on earned and unearned income to avoid paying other things besides tax! I find that annoying because the employed pay fair taxes do they not ? That are stuck in the PAYE system? The whole system needs overhauling. We can look at the Cayman Islands too whilst we are at it. Sarah | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! Cash in hand work is still tax evasion. As is the self-employed doing all sorts to avoid tax - like buying some massive car as a company asset. Employing a family member as a Company Secretary etc etc. Don't start me on earned and unearned income to avoid paying other things besides tax! I find that annoying because the employed pay fair taxes do they not ? That are stuck in the PAYE system? The whole system needs overhauling. We can look at the Cayman Islands too whilst we are at it. Sarah " Yes yes yes, but we have to conveniently forget about them because otherwise the argument about the wealthy reducing their tax burden just falls down. The truth is, given the opportunity we would all like to pay less tax if it was possible. Some have more opportunity to do so, some do not As long as it's legal I don't have a problem with it. But then again I don't have rich envy...... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. Is it not "business people" who are paying people cash in hand and breaking the law?" Is it not "anyone from any walk of life" who pays people cash in hand are breaking the law? There, fixed it for you. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Yes yes yes, but we have to conveniently forget about them because otherwise the argument about the wealthy reducing their tax burden just falls down. The truth is, given the opportunity we would all like to pay less tax if it was possible. Some have more opportunity to do so, some do not As long as it's legal I don't have a problem with it. But then again I don't have rich envy......" I don't - but .... Some of the legal ways to avoid tax are loopholes that need closing ! But then someone will find another one. It'll never be completely fair across the whole spectrum. Sarah | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. " . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Yes yes yes, but we have to conveniently forget about them because otherwise the argument about the wealthy reducing their tax burden just falls down. The truth is, given the opportunity we would all like to pay less tax if it was possible. Some have more opportunity to do so, some do not As long as it's legal I don't have a problem with it. But then again I don't have rich envy...... I don't - but .... Some of the legal ways to avoid tax are loopholes that need closing ! But then someone will find another one. It'll never be completely fair across the whole spectrum. Sarah " Agreed. I'm not sure the system could ever be fair to everyone though. Some will be disadvantaged, some will benefit. Btw, I wasn't suggesting you had rich envy. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it!" Just checked, yep, you definitely said; "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" and if you read correctly you'd see that's the comment I'm referring to. You can't have it both ways. Blame the rich for using a legal system, ignore the less affluent for totally breaking the law seems a little inequal to me. As I've pointed out several times, cash in hand is illegal. The tax reduction schemes you're raging about are legal. It's not the people who use the system you should be raging about. Direct your ire to the system..... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" I find that annoying because the employed pay fair taxes do they not ? That are stuck in the PAYE system? The whole system needs overhauling. We can look at the Cayman Islands too whilst we are at it. Sarah " YOU can avoid TAX on PAYE by simply paying into your pension with AVC's you can pay up to £40,000 a year TAX free for every £6000 net you pay in, you get £4,000 added so for paying £24,000 into your pension you get another £16,000 free you have to remember that what your company pays in is also included in the £40,000 max but you can go back 5 years on that and its all perfectly legal | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" I find that annoying because the employed pay fair taxes do they not ? That are stuck in the PAYE system? The whole system needs overhauling. We can look at the Cayman Islands too whilst we are at it. Sarah YOU can avoid TAX on PAYE by simply paying into your pension with AVC's you can pay up to £40,000 a year TAX free for every £6000 net you pay in, you get £4,000 added so for paying £24,000 into your pension you get another £16,000 free you have to remember that what your company pays in is also included in the £40,000 max but you can go back 5 years on that and its all perfectly legal "People being able to legally reduce their tax liability AND benefitting from the system? I'm outraged....... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes." As you've said, nicking a Snickers IS robbery. So you either think robbery is bad or you don't. Tax avoidance is either bad or it isn't. Tax evasion is either bad or it isn't. Not bad when some people do it but not when other people do it depending on whether we've decided they're deserving or not according to how much they've got in their bank account. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it! Just checked, yep, you definitely said; "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" and if you read correctly you'd see that's the comment I'm referring to. You can't have it both ways. Blame the rich for using a legal system, ignore the less affluent for totally breaking the law seems a little inequal to me. As I've pointed out several times, cash in hand is illegal. The tax reduction schemes you're raging about are legal. It's not the people who use the system you should be raging about. Direct your ire to the system....." . News flash... Tax evasion and money laundering is NOT legal.. Read what I wrote!. The moot point I was talking about is the difference it makes to commerce of a country, not the legality's of it | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes." But they are paying their taxes. Just not as much as you'd like them too. They are not at fault. The system is imperfect. They are using the system. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! I think rich people buy loads of stuff too though - houses, cars, jewellery, expensive dinners, clothes, shoes, holidays, fashion, boats.... You can't buy houses, boats, cars or jewellery with money from tax evasion.... Well you can but don't say I didn't warn you!" But you can with the money you save by avoiding tax. Do you think the super rich only avoid paying tax so that their wealth grows for the sake of it? Even evasion and money laundering - the entire point of it is to find ways to wash that money through so it becomes clean so it can be used. They want their wealth to grow so they have more money so they can have a certain lifestyle. Which involves spending money. On stuff. Yes it might be spending money which benefits DeBeers more than the corner shop, but to suggest the lifestyles of the rich don't support commerce at all is a bit of a stretch. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" News flash... Tax evasion and money laundering is NOT legal.. Read what I wrote!. The moot point I was talking about is the difference it makes to commerce of a country, not the legality's of it "Tax evasion and money laundering are illegal, tax avoidance is not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it! Just checked, yep, you definitely said; "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" and if you read correctly you'd see that's the comment I'm referring to. You can't have it both ways. Blame the rich for using a legal system, ignore the less affluent for totally breaking the law seems a little inequal to me. As I've pointed out several times, cash in hand is illegal. The tax reduction schemes you're raging about are legal. It's not the people who use the system you should be raging about. Direct your ire to the system...... News flash... Tax evasion and money laundering is NOT legal.. Read what I wrote!. The moot point I was talking about is the difference it makes to commerce of a country, not the legality's of it "News flash; I didn't say Tax evasion and money laundering IS legal. Forget the moot point, it's pretty simple, not declaring an income is illegal, tax reduction schemes are legal. Economy of scale is irrelevant. You're accepting the illegal because it's a drop in the ocean and focusing on the big number because it's, er, big and involves a sector of society you can't abide. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! Cash in hand work is still tax evasion. As is the self-employed doing all sorts to avoid tax - like buying some massive car as a company asset. Employing a family member as a Company Secretary etc etc. Don't start me on earned and unearned income to avoid paying other things besides tax! I find that annoying because the employed pay fair taxes do they not ? That are stuck in the PAYE system? The whole system needs overhauling. We can look at the Cayman Islands too whilst we are at it. Sarah Yes yes yes, but we have to conveniently forget about them because otherwise the argument about the wealthy reducing their tax burden just falls down. The truth is, given the opportunity we would all like to pay less tax if it was possible. Some have more opportunity to do so, some do not As long as it's legal I don't have a problem with it. But then again I don't have rich envy......" My point of view too! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes. As you've said, nicking a Snickers IS robbery. So you either think robbery is bad or you don't. Tax avoidance is either bad or it isn't. Tax evasion is either bad or it isn't. Not bad when some people do it but not when other people do it depending on whether we've decided they're deserving or not according to how much they've got in their bank account. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti" Nawti Nawti, but legal legal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Bunch of money-grabbing, tax-dodging shites who think they're better and cleverer than the rest of us. May they rot." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti Nawti Nawti, but legal legal. "As per my quote from Robertson above, it is entirely within the pervue of the UK government to do something about its own tax havens in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Isle of Man &c &c | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti Nawti Nawti, but legal legal.
As per my quote from Robertson above, it is entirely within the pervue of the UK government to do something about its own tax havens in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Isle of Man &c &c"The point is, that if *everyone* conducted their tax affairs like the rich there would be no money for anyone. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti Nawti Nawti, but legal legal.
As per my quote from Robertson above, it is entirely within the pervue of the UK government to do something about its own tax havens in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, Isle of Man &c &c"I hope they don't change the system, one day I plan to be filthy rich and rolling in lucre. I'd hate to think someone's planning to spoil the dream for me.... My riches will be honestly earned obviously, I'll only be garnering an income and paying my taxes by Fab Forum approved mechanisms. Now, if only everyone could agree on what those mechanisms are going to be. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes. As you've said, nicking a Snickers IS robbery. So you either think robbery is bad or you don't. Tax avoidance is either bad or it isn't. Tax evasion is either bad or it isn't. Not bad when some people do it but not when other people do it depending on whether we've decided they're deserving or not according to how much they've got in their bank account. " Of course I think robbery is bad, but I think robbery stealing millions is worse than nicking a Snickers. Some of the figures on tax avoidance are eye-watering. If it's being done legally, then it's something we need to look at changing laws for imo. Governments of all bents have promised to tackle this issue, but it just seems to be getting worse. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ermm wasn't it not long ago that a certain pm commented on Jimmy Carrs tax avoidance. " You're not suggesting that our esteemed Prime Minister is a feckless, hypocritical, useless weather vane of a man who blows in the direction of public opinion because he has no ideas of his own? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes. But they are paying their taxes. Just not as much as you'd like them too. They are not at fault. The system is imperfect. They are using the system." they designed the system, they validate the system in statute.. they then like others benefit from the system along with bullion thieves, corrupt governments etc.. the plumber whilst acting wrongly and therein lies another moral debate can not change the system (not seen many sitting Governments voted out yet because of this so a possibility, maybe perhaps) the plumber doesn't set aside millions to lobby the people who allow this to go on fully knowing its wrong.. the plumber hasn't laid off the people whom on our behalf investigate the system.. its not about 'envy' ffs using that is a cop out, blaming the plumber is a smoke screen.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ermm wasn't it not long ago that a certain pm commented on Jimmy Carrs tax avoidance. You're not suggesting that our esteemed Prime Minister is a feckless, hypocritical, useless weather vane of a man who blows in the direction of public opinion because he has no ideas of his own? "Yeah it's awful when people don't have ideas of their own  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ermm wasn't it not long ago that a certain pm commented on Jimmy Carrs tax avoidance. You're not suggesting that our esteemed Prime Minister is a feckless, hypocritical, useless weather vane of a man who blows in the direction of public opinion because he has no ideas of his own?
Yeah it's awful when people don't have ideas of their own " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ermm wasn't it not long ago that a certain pm commented on Jimmy Carrs tax avoidance. You're not suggesting that our esteemed Prime Minister is a feckless, hypocritical, useless weather vane of a man who blows in the direction of public opinion because he has no ideas of his own?
Yeah it's awful when people don't have ideas of their own "...and your position on the UK tax system is...? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it! Just checked, yep, you definitely said; "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" and if you read correctly you'd see that's the comment I'm referring to. You can't have it both ways. Blame the rich for using a legal system, ignore the less affluent for totally breaking the law seems a little inequal to me. As I've pointed out several times, cash in hand is illegal. The tax reduction schemes you're raging about are legal. It's not the people who use the system you should be raging about. Direct your ire to the system...... News flash... Tax evasion and money laundering is NOT legal.. Read what I wrote!. The moot point I was talking about is the difference it makes to commerce of a country, not the legality's of it
News flash; I didn't say Tax evasion and money laundering IS legal.
Forget the moot point, it's pretty simple, not declaring an income is illegal, tax reduction schemes are legal.
Economy of scale is irrelevant. You're accepting the illegal because it's a drop in the ocean and focusing on the big number because it's, er, big and involves a sector of society you can't abide.
". Look I didn't write tax reduction schemes... Stop making things up!. The two lines I wrote are right there in this thread. "Tax evasion and money laundering" Are illegal,I never once mentioned anything to do with tax avoidance schemes and yes I can't abide a section of society involved in wholesale illegal and immoral activities which CAUSE problems on a far larger scale than the other illegal activities of cash only work by "working class" people!. So save me your spin on what you think I think because there it is in writing! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti Nawti Nawti, but legal legal. ". It's not fucking legal... If it were legal the guy being quizzed about shell companies would have just laughed and told the bbc to fuck off!. It's illegal that's made to look like legal avoidance | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"These posts are getting dreadfully long" . That's because some people can't friggin read! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nawti nawti Nawti Nawti, but legal legal. .
It's not fucking legal... If it were legal the guy being quizzed about shell companies would have just laughed and told the bbc to fuck off!.
It's illegal that's made to look like legal avoidance"If it's legal, how come... * Crowds gathering outside Iceland's parliament demanding the Prime Minister Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson step down over allegations he concealed investments in an offshore company * Close relatives of seven current or former Chinese leaders have been found to have links to offshore firms and there has been a media blackout in China regarding the story * The Australian Tax Office (ATO) is investigating more than 800 individual taxpayers, all residents of Australia * The US Department of Justice is reviewing the leaked documents to look for evidence of corruption that could be prosecuted in the US, the Wall Street Journal reports * France and Spain are investigating money laundering exposed by the leaks among their resident taxpayers * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. " post of the day.x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The same point that's been made over and over. The rich don't have a monopoly on tax evasion!!! Very true - look at cash in hand jobs. Plus creative accounting which isn't against the law but is used massively to avoid tax. We need to sort out the other offshore tax havens too! Sarah . The cash in hand is a completely mute point!. What do you do with the cash you've earnt?? , you can't bank it, you can't buy an asset with it, you can either spend it in tesco or stick it under a mattress?. It's hardly taking money out of the system(not that I'm condoning it) . . However money laundering and tax evasion work in far more insidious ways!. . . The important point I keep making is that the penalty for a less well off person evading tax is far more penal! It's only a moot point because it doesn't fit your agenda. One is legal, one is not. . No actually there both illegal!. What agenda? You conveniently cast aside those who work cash in hand as a "moot point", because they are most likely to be working class, in order to focus your diatribe on the real villains of the piece, those who are fortunate enough to have a little bit more than you and the benefits that go with it. Working cash in hand and not paying any tax at all is criminal, whereas the villains of your story are merely using the system, legally. . Why don't you actually read what I wrote for once. I said there both illegal which they are and I said one has a less damaging effect on commerce which I gave reasons for!. No agenda here I'm afraid, despite you trying to spin it! Just checked, yep, you definitely said; "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" and if you read correctly you'd see that's the comment I'm referring to. You can't have it both ways. Blame the rich for using a legal system, ignore the less affluent for totally breaking the law seems a little inequal to me. As I've pointed out several times, cash in hand is illegal. The tax reduction schemes you're raging about are legal. It's not the people who use the system you should be raging about. Direct your ire to the system...... News flash... Tax evasion and money laundering is NOT legal.. Read what I wrote!. The moot point I was talking about is the difference it makes to commerce of a country, not the legality's of it
News flash; I didn't say Tax evasion and money laundering IS legal.
Forget the moot point, it's pretty simple, not declaring an income is illegal, tax reduction schemes are legal.
Economy of scale is irrelevant. You're accepting the illegal because it's a drop in the ocean and focusing on the big number because it's, er, big and involves a sector of society you can't abide.
.
Look I didn't write tax reduction schemes... Stop making things up!.
The two lines I wrote are right there in this thread.
"Tax evasion and money laundering"
Are illegal,I never once mentioned anything to do with tax avoidance schemes and yes I can't abide a section of society involved in wholesale illegal and immoral activities which CAUSE problems on a far larger scale than the other illegal activities of cash only work by "working class" people!.
So save me your spin on what you think I think because there it is in writing!"As is your phrase "The cash in hand is a completely mute point!" Can you point out where legal tax reduction schemes are, as you say, illegal? Immoral is a whole different ball game and I suspect we'd probably agree there. My point is, yet again, these people are not breaking any laws. Where's the spin on that? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country" did he add 'the financial affairs of my wife has nothing to do with me' | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. . It's actually worse than that!. You see if we just gave a 100% increase to the unemployed, the truth is they would just spend that entire increase!. That would generate instant commerce, shops, food, clothing.. That stuff they bought would have tax on it, so you'd actually get a % of that money back in just one week, of course generates more commerce and... Jobs, so you might even get some of them off unemployment! (Crazy idea I know). . . Whereas the (scum) at the top(I'm just being even handed with the wording), they squirrel off the money into oversees quarters, meaning less money for spending, meaning less growth and more overseas investment needed which means more... Yes interest!. . See Georgy porgy, is busy selling off infrastructure(family silver) while racking up huge debts, he's the worst type of chancellor there is, he's taking money out of the pockets of disabled people meaning less spending on the high St and no tax from the spending, while giving the money to the 0.1% who then take the money overseas into off shore tax haven's paying no tax at all, while racking up huge debts with pfi from banks like hsbc who are buying our fucking hospitals with ill gotten gains of doing the friggin tax evading... . . Alas nobody gives a shit until it all goes tits and then there'll be crying into their credit card statements about... How could this happen in the UK...I mean for crying out loud.. This isn't Italy!" another brilliantly accurate post! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. post of the day.x" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes. But they are paying their taxes. Just not as much as you'd like them too. They are not at fault. The system is imperfect. They are using the system. they designed the system, they validate the system in statute.. they then like others benefit from the system along with bullion thieves, corrupt governments etc.. the plumber whilst acting wrongly and therein lies another moral debate can not change the system (not seen many sitting Governments voted out yet because of this so a possibility, maybe perhaps) the plumber doesn't set aside millions to lobby the people who allow this to go on fully knowing its wrong.. the plumber hasn't laid off the people whom on our behalf investigate the system.. its not about 'envy' ffs using that is a cop out, blaming the plumber is a smoke screen.. " Then you have the answer in your own words. Stand for parliament, get elected and work to change the system. It's more likely to get the change you want than moaning about it on an Internet forum to a bunch of strangers. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"These posts are getting dreadfully long" This one's not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"A plumber taking a few quit extra, or doing the odd job off the books is indeed guilty of tax avoidance, but to compare that with systematic stashing of corporate or individual millions is just ridiculous. Nicking a Snickers from shop is robbery, as is holding up a bank. The other nice little diversion technique is to palm this off as "envy". The super rich love to believe that we're all desperate to be like them. Here's news: we're not. Just pay your damn taxes. But they are paying their taxes. Just not as much as you'd like them too. They are not at fault. The system is imperfect. They are using the system. they designed the system, they validate the system in statute.. they then like others benefit from the system along with bullion thieves, corrupt governments etc.. the plumber whilst acting wrongly and therein lies another moral debate can not change the system (not seen many sitting Governments voted out yet because of this so a possibility, maybe perhaps) the plumber doesn't set aside millions to lobby the people who allow this to go on fully knowing its wrong.. the plumber hasn't laid off the people whom on our behalf investigate the system.. its not about 'envy' ffs using that is a cop out, blaming the plumber is a smoke screen.. Then you have the answer in your own words. Stand for parliament, get elected and work to change the system. It's more likely to get the change you want than moaning about it on an Internet forum to a bunch of strangers. " yeah ok i am moaning and i suspect you think that you are contributing..? where the fuck have i moaned, unless pointing out the bleeding obvious is now categorised as that..? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country did he add 'the financial affairs of my wife has nothing to do with me' " He might have done.
Out of interest, do your financial affairs have anything to do with your partner?
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and while you slag off people on benefits, calling them lazy, work shy, and act like they deserve nothing. just remember your rulers and leaders are stealing millions more than every single one of them put together. post of the day.x" Except it's apropos of nothing, because no one even mentioned benefits | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country did he add 'the financial affairs of my wife has nothing to do with me' He might have done.
Out of interest, do your financial affairs have anything to do with your partner?
"nope.. yours? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Then you have the answer in your own words. Stand for parliament, get elected and work to change the system. It's more likely to get the change you want than moaning about it on an Internet forum to a bunch of strangers. " I agree and disagree. Agree because on t'internet everyone has pre-conceived ideas that *don't* change (when was the last time someone went, hmmm, that poster has a valid point that challenges my assumptions, I might just go and reassess those..., like NEVER). BUT Changing the system via Parliament is nigh impossible as a coterie of professional politicians and the party's machines make it difficult for independent-minded types to get elected. Any other ideas? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" * Panama President Juan Carlos Varela has said his government has "zero tolerance" for illicit financial activities and would co-operate vigorously with any judicial investigation in any country did he add 'the financial affairs of my wife has nothing to do with me' He might have done.
Out of interest, do your financial affairs have anything to do with your partner?
"My partner would have literally no idea about my financial affairs. So long as we're both paying our share, I could be indulging in large scale aggressive tax avoidance, complicated money laundering schemes or anything and he would be able to say in good conscience that he didn't know about it. And vice versa. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" yeah ok i am moaning and i suspect you think that you are contributing..? where the fuck have i moaned, unless pointing out the bleeding obvious is now categorised as that..? " I'm confused. Help. "Yeah ok I'm moaning" and "where the fuck have I moaned" seem mutually exclusive comments. I think we're all contributing. We're just contributing differing views. I believe that's permitted? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
