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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads" There are quite a number of fast charge points all over the UK. I think it was about 300 at the last count (but could be wrong) | |||
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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads There are quite a number of fast charge points all over the UK. I think it was about 300 at the last count (but could be wrong)" It's good but not quite a carling? ![]() | |||
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"I am waiting for the Apple car, can't wait to get my hands on an overpriced but beautiful car that won't connect to anything else and needs to be charged through iTunes...." ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | |||
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"I am waiting for the Apple car, can't wait to get my hands on an overpriced but beautiful car that won't connect to anything else and needs to be charged through iTunes.... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Plus the FBI will be able to unlock it any time they like. | |||
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"as you know i am a eco hippy... lol and the new telsa model 3 has been unveiled... they are claiming the standard model will be £25,000.... and remember you get a £4500 Electric Vehicle discount on top from the government... at least 215 miles on a charge.... basically a baby model s if it is advertised the could mean they finally become mainstream if it is as good they they claim, i am so tempted to put my name on the waiting list for one...... so please talk me out of it..... ![]() ![]() ![]() So when we drive from Germany to Spain I've got to stop for a recharge every 200 odd miles. ![]() | |||
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"I just had a look and have to say it looks great ![]() ![]() this is the same thinking i am coming from with the prius i have..... i love the model s... it was going to be my "if i won the lottery car".... but the model 3 is the more realistic practical alternative... this is why i am looking at it as a serious option... if tesla were for example to stick a couple of superchargers in every 24hr service station... it then becomes realistic longer range alternative.... | |||
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" So when we drive from Germany to Spain I've got to stop for a recharge every 200 odd miles. ![]() the supercharger would do that in about 20-30 minutes.... so for example every 3 hrs ish... stop for a tea and a sandwich whilst its charging... ![]() | |||
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"I can't think of anything worse than an electric car! Nothing beats the amazing rumbly roar of a decent v8 as you go about your business. The quiet whine of an electric motor will never bring the same smile to a face !" I'm having to slum it with a V6 but I still get a smile ![]() | |||
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"I am waiting for the Apple car, can't wait to get my hands on an overpriced but beautiful car that won't connect to anything else and needs to be charged through iTunes...." You realise you'll only be able to drive in on Apple roads? ![]() | |||
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"I am waiting for the Apple car, can't wait to get my hands on an overpriced but beautiful car that won't connect to anything else and needs to be charged through iTunes.... You realise you'll only be able to drive in on Apple roads? ![]() Not if you pay apple $5000 for a converter. They will then release a software update that locks me out of my car unless I input Steve Jobs social security number. | |||
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"I just had a look and have to say it looks great ![]() ![]() I think it looks fantastic, might have to badger Hubby into getting one ![]() | |||
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"I do wonder how "eco" electric cars really are. Generating electricity is on the whole not a clean business." Its a fifth of the cost of putting petrol in so likely the emissions are less by similar amount and lots of charging points are powered by solar | |||
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" So when we drive from Germany to Spain I've got to stop for a recharge every 200 odd miles. ![]() ![]() I would prefer a couple of superchargers on my V8... ![]() | |||
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"I do wonder how "eco" electric cars really are. Generating electricity is on the whole not a clean business. Its a fifth of the cost of putting petrol in so likely the emissions are less by similar amount and lots of charging points are powered by solar" That's cost though. I remember an article on the Prius when every eco hipster was buying them for karma points stating how terrible for the environment they were through manufacture alone compared to a normal car. | |||
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" So when we drive from Germany to Spain I've got to stop for a recharge every 200 odd miles. ![]() ![]() ![]() Treat yourself to a Jag XJ8R or an S-Type STR and job's a good un ![]() | |||
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"I do wonder how "eco" electric cars really are. Generating electricity is on the whole not a clean business. Its a fifth of the cost of putting petrol in so likely the emissions are less by similar amount and lots of charging points are powered by solar That's cost though. I remember an article on the Prius when every eco hipster was buying them for karma points stating how terrible for the environment they were through manufacture alone compared to a normal car." . . This is correct in the main, it's a lovely car but isn't exactly eco friendly although if we made all electric generating from renewables it would be an awful lot better than fossil fuels. If you actually want to be as eco friendly as possible, just stick with your current car for as long as possible (say over 15 years) and use it as little as possible!. You'd be very surprised how much of your travel could be done by bicycle!. | |||
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"Hello Fabio, it's you choice but I am unhappy my tax money is being given to you to buy a car. The only positive about electric powered vehicles is in congested cities, but unless there is a large scale change in city transport it will make little difference. 90% of our electricity is from fossil fuel so they are not particularly clean nor are they particularly efficient given all the transmission and rectification losses. Solar charging, fine if you want to charge by day and drive at night and cross your fingers in winter. Alec " . It's large but it's not 90%!. In fact wind turbines produced 10% of the UKs electrical demand alone last year!. In fact the renewables coming in allowed for a 8% reduction in the UKs trade deficit because we weren't buying imported fuel!. | |||
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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads" Indeed. But then you wouldn't go green laning in a Mondeo either. Horses for courses. For most people's lives 200 miles or so is more than adequate. If it isn't enough then don't buy one. I'm no fan of electric cars, always thought of them as an evolutionary dead end and that we should go the hydrogen fuel cell route. The Elon Musk got involved and that may well be a game changer. Interesting times? | |||
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"I just had a look and have to say it looks great ![]() ![]() What's the fuel consumption? Isn't a Prius worse than a decent diesel? | |||
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"Problem is, on an eco note, there has to be a big dirty polluting power station to .charge it up. I would check on battery life too. Nissan have batteries to lease as they are expensive and can only be charged a number of times. " Let's build some nice clean nuclear ones! | |||
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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads Indeed. But then you wouldn't go green laning in a Mondeo either. Horses for courses. For most people's lives 200 miles or so is more than adequate. If it isn't enough then don't buy one. I'm no fan of electric cars, always thought of them as an evolutionary dead end and that we should go the hydrogen fuel cell route. The Elon Musk got involved and that may well be a game changer. Interesting times? " . The problem isn't hydrogen fuel cells, there pretty much done!. The problem is where you get the hydrogen to put into it? | |||
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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads Indeed. But then you wouldn't go green laning in a Mondeo either. Horses for courses. For most people's lives 200 miles or so is more than adequate. If it isn't enough then don't buy one. I'm no fan of electric cars, always thought of them as an evolutionary dead end and that we should go the hydrogen fuel cell route. The Elon Musk got involved and that may well be a game changer. Interesting times? . The problem isn't hydrogen fuel cells, there pretty much done!. The problem is where you get the hydrogen to put into it?" Isn't the problem storing the hydrogen on the vehicle? I understand its really hard to do. | |||
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"Problem is, on an eco note, there has to be a big dirty polluting power station to .charge it up. I would check on battery life too. Nissan have batteries to lease as they are expensive and can only be charged a number of times. Let's build some nice clean nuclear ones! " . There's a few problems with that as well!. Firstly given that were now on the way to serious climate change there's the problem about protecting them from rising sea levels. Then there's the proliferation problems. Then there's the 10 to 15 years build time and where you build them. Then there's the decommissioning costs. And finally the fact is they produce as much c02 from building to decommissioning as a standard coal plant does!. | |||
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" So when we drive from Germany to Spain I've got to stop for a recharge every 200 odd miles. ![]() ![]() Sod that for a lark. I will do 5 or 6 hours then a 10 minute break and then off again. Stopping for half an hour (if I can find a bloody "supercharger") isn't an option. I can fill up in Luxembourg and get all the way to Spain without troubling the French service stations. Why should I change? While the Chinese are building coal fired power stations week in, week out, why the hell should I bother about a minuscule amount of carbon? All bollox if you ask me. | |||
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"I applaud the logic behind it but I'm not sure the country is geared up to enable users to charge the beast. Say you went on a road trip to the highlands of Scotland for example... It's not a place that you'd want to stranded even with the AA constantly patrolling the roads Indeed. But then you wouldn't go green laning in a Mondeo either. Horses for courses. For most people's lives 200 miles or so is more than adequate. If it isn't enough then don't buy one. I'm no fan of electric cars, always thought of them as an evolutionary dead end and that we should go the hydrogen fuel cell route. The Elon Musk got involved and that may well be a game changer. Interesting times? . The problem isn't hydrogen fuel cells, there pretty much done!. The problem is where you get the hydrogen to put into it? Isn't the problem storing the hydrogen on the vehicle? I understand its really hard to do." . Well there's that aspect of storage but the problem with hydrogen is... Well it's bonded to other elements, it takes as much energy to strip the hydrogen from the other element as you get from the hydrogen itself, basically it's a negative eroei (energy returned on energy invested). Yes it could play a part with solar or wind used as the energy input but as we stand today, well Honda use a football size field of solar panels to produce the hydrogen for their show cars at the Honda plant in California!. So yes it could play a small part but it's not likely to replace fossil fuel transport | |||
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"Isn't the problem with current electric cars, on a purely eco note, that the manufacture of the batteries causes far more environmental damage than is saved by not burning petrol/diesel for the lifetime of the batteries?" Are you sure that all that goes into using and retrieving and refining fossil fuels for use for the entire life of an IC engine is less damaging than creating a single battery? | |||
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"Isn't the problem with current electric cars, on a purely eco note, that the manufacture of the batteries causes far more environmental damage than is saved by not burning petrol/diesel for the lifetime of the batteries? Are you sure that all that goes into using and retrieving and refining fossil fuels for use for the entire life of an IC engine is less damaging than creating a single battery?" . Tit for tat they are equally bad at producing c02 the problem with that philosophy is nearly all "traditional" cars are scrapped recycled and bought again so you have the added effect of c02 used for the build costs and running costs!. So if you actually just kept your traditional car it would produce less c02 over a twenty year period than an electric one being built and scrapped and re-sold! | |||
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"Yes, loads of studies done" I'd be wary of the funding of those studies and the fact they were released on the same day Tesla's shares rocketed. It's also the same excuse Singapore used to punish a Model S buyer with extraordinary fines. It appears simply to be a punishment for importing American as opposed to an unethical purchase. | |||
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"Yes, loads of studies done I'd be wary of the funding of those studies and the fact they were released on the same day Tesla's shares rocketed. It's also the same excuse Singapore used to punish a Model S buyer with extraordinary fines. It appears simply to be a punishment for importing American as opposed to an unethical purchase. " I've been aware of such studies since before Tesla was formed. Personally, I keep vehicles until they're beyond economic repair - hence a 20 year old Jeep. When it does eventually have to go, then if it was an option, I would go electric, but I'm more likely to buy another, younger LPG converted Jeep ![]() | |||
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"Yes, loads of studies done I'd be wary of the funding of those studies and the fact they were released on the same day Tesla's shares rocketed. It's also the same excuse Singapore used to punish a Model S buyer with extraordinary fines. It appears simply to be a punishment for importing American as opposed to an unethical purchase. I've been aware of such studies since before Tesla was formed. Personally, I keep vehicles until they're beyond economic repair - hence a 20 year old Jeep. When it does eventually have to go, then if it was an option, I would go electric, but I'm more likely to buy another, younger LPG converted Jeep ![]() I'm not sure how a trustworthy study could've been conducted before the car existed... Anyway if you like Jeeps, you probably wouldn't be a Tesla buyer. They're just different markets. | |||
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"Yes, loads of studies done I'd be wary of the funding of those studies and the fact they were released on the same day Tesla's shares rocketed. It's also the same excuse Singapore used to punish a Model S buyer with extraordinary fines. It appears simply to be a punishment for importing American as opposed to an unethical purchase. I've been aware of such studies since before Tesla was formed. Personally, I keep vehicles until they're beyond economic repair - hence a 20 year old Jeep. When it does eventually have to go, then if it was an option, I would go electric, but I'm more likely to buy another, younger LPG converted Jeep ![]() I'm talking about studies of keeping existing vehicles on the road vs manufacture and running new ones, particularly electric and hybrid. These studies have been carried out since way before Tesla was formed. I don't like any particular type/model of car. To me they're just tools for doing a job, like a set of spanners or a hammer. I have occasion to go off road for festivals, and to tow or carry heavy loads. So long as the Jeep is repairable for significantly less than the cost of replacing it, I'll keep it. when that equation changes, I'll break it and sell the rest for scrap. | |||
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"as you know i am a eco hippy... lol and the new telsa model 3 has been unveiled... they are claiming the standard model will be £25,000.... and remember you get a £4500 Electric Vehicle discount on top from the government... at least 215 miles on a charge.... basically a baby model s if it is advertised the could mean they finally become mainstream if it is as good they they claim, i am so tempted to put my name on the waiting list for one...... so please talk me out of it..... ![]() ![]() ![]() I have seen a lot of them around London. The more expensive ones mind you. Very attractive and lots of places to plug in. So as long as the range is good. The styling is attractive and the charging is convenient I am all for them, it will be the future very soon. I believe the current ones are just over £6 to charge up yet I do not know the range you get for that. | |||
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"as you know i am a eco hippy... lol and the new telsa model 3 has been unveiled... they are claiming the standard model will be £25,000.... and remember you get a £4500 Electric Vehicle discount on top from the government... at least 215 miles on a charge.... basically a baby model s if it is advertised the could mean they finally become mainstream if it is as good they they claim, i am so tempted to put my name on the waiting list for one...... so please talk me out of it..... ![]() ![]() ![]() I like the Tesla cars I have seen and on the serface like the idea of electric cars, however scratch beneith the surface and generally they are no greener than a conventional internal combustion engine. To start with the batteries used in the cars are not exactly environementally friendly to produce or dispose of at the end of their relatively short life. Then the is the little matter of charging the batteries. Unless you have your own solor panels or wind turbine, the power is coming from the national grid. Huge amounts of the power generated at a power station is lost before it gets to the end user, someone once said that this loss equated to only 30% ofe the genereated power being available at the plug. If you then account for how the power is generated, the vast majority is produced in coal or gas powered power stations. So generally speaking electric cars, at lest at the moment, are only shifting the polution problem from the car to a power station and also making the polution at the power station far worse. In addition I was speeking to an electrical engineer the other day who pointed out that the electrical supply to most homes could not cope with the demand of people charging their cars. Having said that, electric propultion is a far better solution in the long run, we just need to find a better solution to the generation of the electricity. Roll on the develoment of hydrogen fuel cell technology. Owl. | |||
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" You realise you'll only be able to drive in on Apple roads? ![]() Or as Apple prefer to call them, i-Ways. | |||
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"Hello Fabio, it's you choice but I am unhappy my tax money is being given to you to buy a car. The only positive about electric powered vehicles is in congested cities, but unless there is a large scale change in city transport it will make little difference. 90% of our electricity is from fossil fuel so they are not particularly clean nor are they particularly efficient given all the transmission and rectification losses. Solar charging, fine if you want to charge by day and drive at night and cross your fingers in winter. Alec . It's large but it's not 90%!. In fact wind turbines produced 10% of the UKs electrical demand alone last year!. In fact the renewables coming in allowed for a 8% reduction in the UKs trade deficit because we weren't buying imported fuel!." When the_doors is good, he is very good! He is right - 2014 grid mix was 31% coal, 31% gas, 19% renewables, 18% nuclear. Hum, electric cars not particularly clean, not particularly efficient. Compared to? A 15-25% overhead on extraction, refining and transport of liquid fossil fuels. Then only about 15% of the fossil fuel you burn in you engine actually gets used to move your car - with about 80% of the losses going in engine and idling losses. And if you wanted to think about it, your weight is probably around 5% of your cars weight. So, it would be a pretty safe bet to say that less than 1% of that incredibly precious, valuable and irreplaceable resource we call fossil fuel that we burn in our cars, creating huge environmental and air quality issues, actually gets used to move us around. Now, what were we saying about electric cars? | |||
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"So generally speaking electric cars, at lest at the moment, are only shifting the polution problem from the car to a power station and also making the polution at the power station far worse." Firstly, that's Absolutely not true. IF the UK produced all it's electricity by burning dirty coal, there would still be a marginal improvement. But we don't. About 40% of our grid mix is clean, so the improvement is large. Secondly, even if this WAS true, it would still be an environmental improvement as few of our people and particularly kids live in power station exhaust stacks. They do live next to our roads though Oh, and on your up to 30% transmission loss for electricity, it's pretty close to the up to 25% 'loss' on producing, refining and transporting liquid fossil fuel. " In addition I was speeking to an electrical engineer the other day who pointed out that the electrical supply to most homes could not cope with the demand of people charging their cars." Most people don't use their car at night. How long a day is your car sitting idle? Actually we don't use much electricity either between midnight and 6am. Yes, sure, if everyone switched to EVs tomorrow, we'd have some issues. If everyone wanted a fast charger in their home tomorrow we'd have some issues. But charging a 24kWh battery (Nissan Leaf) takes just 8hrs via a single normal 3pin domestic plug - and you could double them up easily if you wanted. " Roll on the develoment of hydrogen fuel cell technology." And just out of interest, where do you think the hydrogen comes from? I'm afraid you make it with electricity. In this context, hydrogen is just another form of electrical energy storage. | |||
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" I would prefer a couple of superchargers on my V8... ![]() ![]() Mark Moody-Stuart, former CEO of Shell, once said that driving any car that doesn't do at least 40mpg in real world driving is a crime against the environment. Personally, I would call it a call it a crime against humanity and our future generations - but I know, I'm just an extremist on the subject. How do your Jag XJ8R and S Type STR do? | |||
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"I do wonder how "eco" electric cars really are. Generating electricity is on the whole not a clean business." They aren't. The strip mining for the nickel that goes in the batteries generates more pollution than most cars generate in their life time. Then there's the various refinement processes and the need to charge the batteries (where does the power come from?). Plus the batteries only have a limited lifetime and need to be replaced. They're a good idea in principal but a very flawed solution. | |||
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"The strip mining for the nickel that goes in the batteries generates more pollution than most cars generate in their life time. " That's the nickel in the Lithium Ion batteries (yes, I know they do contain some nickel - the same metal that's mined to make nickels and dimes in the US and Canada. " and the need to charge the batteries (where does the power come from?)" Electricity, nearly 40% of which in the UK is generated without any CO2 and which doesn't leave poisonous emissions on our city streets where we live and our kids play (which BTW is implicated in 40,000 early deaths in the UK annually) "They're a good idea in principal but a very flawed solution." Unlike internal combustion vehicles, which are of course not at all a flawed solution - usefully using maybe a couple of percent of the energy you get from burning one of human kinds most valuable and very finite natural resources to move a person around. | |||
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"It's not a Prius or a Volt. It's already sounding better" there is nothing wrong with driving a prius i'll have you know mister!!!!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | |||
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" I would prefer a couple of superchargers on my V8... ![]() ![]() I don't want a Jag. What I intend to do is take the engine and gearbox from a 5L twin supercharged Range Rover and drop it in my 90... I should then double my power and at least double my mpg... ![]() | |||
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"It's not a Prius or a Volt. It's already sounding better there is nothing wrong with driving a prius i'll have you know mister!!!!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() How soon before someone gets run over by the silent death??? ![]() | |||
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"as you know i am a eco hippy... lol and the new telsa model 3 has been unveiled... they are claiming the standard model will be £25,000.... and remember you get a £4500 Electric Vehicle discount on top from the government... at least 215 miles on a charge.... basically a baby model s if it is advertised the could mean they finally become mainstream if it is as good they they claim, i am so tempted to put my name on the waiting list for one...... so please talk me out of it..... ![]() ![]() ![]() i think it wont be quite that cheap but i want one too! i could travel to work hundred miles a day and charge it over night! Get one Fabio! | |||
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"Hello Fabio, it's you choice but I am unhappy my tax money is being given to you to buy a car. The only positive about electric powered vehicles is in congested cities, but unless there is a large scale change in city transport it will make little difference. 90% of our electricity is from fossil fuel so they are not particularly clean nor are they particularly efficient given all the transmission and rectification losses. Solar charging, fine if you want to charge by day and drive at night and cross your fingers in winter. Alec . It's large but it's not 90%!. In fact wind turbines produced 10% of the UKs electrical demand alone last year!. In fact the renewables coming in allowed for a 8% reduction in the UKs trade deficit because we weren't buying imported fuel!." Scotland regularly has more than 50% of its energy from renewables the only problem with that is that it is very difficult to load balance and you get surges. | |||
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"It's not a Prius or a Volt. It's already sounding better there is nothing wrong with driving a prius i'll have you know mister!!!!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() all that you need to know is that i am building my list! The first they will know about it is that when I am running them over at 30 mph... i'll be reversing back over them at 30 to finish the job!!!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | |||
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