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vaginal seeding

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

if its beneficial to the baby then yes after all in a normal birth the baby would go through the birth canal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What is it??

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

a birth practice whereby mothers who have their babies via c-section take swabs of their vaginal fluid to rub on the face, body and in the mouth of their new baby. to boost the immune system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"a birth practice whereby mothers who have their babies via c-section take swabs of their vaginal fluid to rub on the face, body and in the mouth of their new baby. to boost the immune system"

Was about to eat but I think I'll wait a bit now

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"a birth practice whereby mothers who have their babies via c-section take swabs of their vaginal fluid to rub on the face, body and in the mouth of their new baby. to boost the immune system

Was about to eat but I think I'll wait a bit now"

If you were born naturally, you were smothered in it and swallowed it yourself. Where's the problem?

It's an entirely natural thing. There's nothing disgusting about birth or the female fluids involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"a birth practice whereby mothers who have their babies via c-section take swabs of their vaginal fluid to rub on the face, body and in the mouth of their new baby. to boost the immune system

Was about to eat but I think I'll wait a bit now

If you were born naturally, you were smothered in it and swallowed it yourself. Where's the problem?

It's an entirely natural thing. There's nothing disgusting about birth or the female fluids involved."

I didn't say it was disgusting just said I not hungry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think a bit of face sitting at 51 would help boost my immune system?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you think a bit of face sitting at 51 would help boost my immune system? "

That's a good point didn't think of it that way, just got my appetite back

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Sounds grim

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By *eryCuriousCouple2012Couple
over a year ago

Funville


"Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?"

Erm....what? That would have no health benefits at all as far as the evidence goes; a c-section prevents liquor and assorted fluids being expelled from the babies lungs during the compression of a vaginal delivery which means babies born that way are more prone to coughing up thick fluid when initially trying to feed. Rubbing excretions from the Bartholins gland on their face post delivery will not boost anything. The only sure fire way of boosting babies immunity is to breast feed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sounds grim"

Perhaps they should call it pussy juicing then it wouldn't sound so grim

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?

Erm....what? That would have no health benefits at all as far as the evidence goes; a c-section prevents liquor and assorted fluids being expelled from the babies lungs during the compression of a vaginal delivery which means babies born that way are more prone to coughing up thick fluid when initially trying to feed. Rubbing excretions from the Bartholins gland on their face post delivery will not boost anything. The only sure fire way of boosting babies immunity is to breast feed."

Plenty of midwives and medical professionals disagree with you.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think this was discussed before.

I think if something is medically safe and parents want to do it fine but I also think the pressures on women in particular around giving birth and parenting are so great that if someone doesn't want to do it they should also feel fine about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never heard of it, nor do I think its anything medical staff would encourage....i had a section 6 months ago.... Wasn't mentioned

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Since half the male profiles on here say they love licking down there and will do it for hours, I'm not sure why they'd have a problem with this concept

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"I've never heard of it, nor do I think its anything medical staff would encourage....i had a section 6 months ago.... Wasn't mentioned "

Some midwives advocate it. It's not part of official professional advice yet.

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter


"a birth practice whereby mothers who have their babies via c-section take swabs of their vaginal fluid to rub on the face, body and in the mouth of their new baby. to boost the immune system

Was about to eat but I think I'll wait a bit now

If you were born naturally, you were smothered in it and swallowed it yourself. Where's the problem?

It's an entirely natural thing. There's nothing disgusting about birth or the female fluids involved.

I didn't say it was disgusting just said I not hungry "

***************

See that is what happens when you read a thread clearly meant for women..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since half the male profiles on here say they love licking down there and will do it for hours, I'm not sure why they'd have a problem with this concept

"

It's not the licking that's a problem it's having something come out and smile at you when your doing it

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I can't remember the name of the last thread on this, even though it wasn't many weeks ago. That had quite a few comments by a recently retired midwife in support of the practice.

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's a little controversial and has grown in popularity, especially from Australia. There isn't hard evidence and you could introduce infections.

Those in favour of it hope to improve their babies' immune systems, reducing asthma rates etc. They'd proposed it may reduce obesity too.

I think a gang of adult guys should be laid down and have the manual seeding, just in case. I did search for this before posting but couldn't find it in the forum.

I think the BMA have spoken against it.

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"I can't remember the name of the last thread on this, even though it wasn't many weeks ago. That had quite a few comments by a recently retired midwife in support of the practice."

I wonder if I posted it. I'd probably do it, if I believed I'd not pass infections on.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"I can't remember the name of the last thread on this, even though it wasn't many weeks ago. That had quite a few comments by a recently retired midwife in support of the practice.

I wonder if I posted it. I'd probably do it, if I believed I'd not pass infections on."

I've searched but can't find it. I've no recollection of what it was called.

Yes, it's controversial and the benefits and risks are still being quite hotly debated.

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By *eryCuriousCouple2012Couple
over a year ago

Funville


"Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?

Erm....what? That would have no health benefits at all as far as the evidence goes; a c-section prevents liquor and assorted fluids being expelled from the babies lungs during the compression of a vaginal delivery which means babies born that way are more prone to coughing up thick fluid when initially trying to feed. Rubbing excretions from the Bartholins gland on their face post delivery will not boost anything. The only sure fire way of boosting babies immunity is to breast feed.

Plenty of midwives and medical professionals disagree with you."

I'm sorry to disagree with you but no they really don't. Mw's only operate using evidence based care and the only evidence that is currently around is that it could actually introduce infection.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London


"Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?

Erm....what? That would have no health benefits at all as far as the evidence goes; a c-section prevents liquor and assorted fluids being expelled from the babies lungs during the compression of a vaginal delivery which means babies born that way are more prone to coughing up thick fluid when initially trying to feed. Rubbing excretions from the Bartholins gland on their face post delivery will not boost anything. The only sure fire way of boosting babies immunity is to breast feed.

Plenty of midwives and medical professionals disagree with you."

That they do Dee, that they do.

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London


"Babies born by caesarian may have improved health if mothers undertake vaginal seeding. Would you or have you?

Erm....what? That would have no health benefits at all as far as the evidence goes; a c-section prevents liquor and assorted fluids being expelled from the babies lungs during the compression of a vaginal delivery which means babies born that way are more prone to coughing up thick fluid when initially trying to feed. Rubbing excretions from the Bartholins gland on their face post delivery will not boost anything. The only sure fire way of boosting babies immunity is to breast feed.

Plenty of midwives and medical professionals disagree with you.

I'm sorry to disagree with you but no they really don't. Mw's only operate using evidence based care and the only evidence that is currently around is that it could actually introduce infection."

Yes, they really do.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

Here i am taking vitamins and suplements, when all this time i could have just got my muvver to sit on my boatrace

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i breastfed all of mine except one of them, and he has got a worse immune system than the other kids i've had.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not sure i would've believed the hospital if they'd told me to wipe some vaginal fluid on his face though. i would've thought that was weird and not done it.

although it kind of makes sense because all babies come out of there and seem to be fine, i'm not convinced of the benefits personally.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

[Removed by poster at 23/03/16 14:58:44]

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"Wasn't there a thread a couple of months ago where there was a very heated debate about this? "

I did try a search but didn't find it, before posting.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Wasn't there a thread a couple of months ago where there was a very heated debate about this?

I did try a search but didn't find it, before posting. "

Apologies for posting that at all - I should have read the thread through then I would have seen that others remembered the thread.

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

My gut feeling is that it's worthy of study but that might be contested as unethical. A fab study wouldn't count or get funding in all likelihood.

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"Wasn't there a thread a couple of months ago where there was a very heated debate about this?

I did try a search but didn't find it, before posting.

Apologies for posting that at all - I should have read the thread through then I would have seen that others remembered the thread.

"

I'm often the first not to read all of a thread Lickety, so you're in company - good or otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?"

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since half the male profiles on here say they love licking down there and will do it for hours, I'm not sure why they'd have a problem with this concept

It's not the licking that's a problem it's having something come out and smile at you when your doing it "
.

Hehe that made me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

"

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had two by c section and one natural, no difference at all in bonding, most likely as I breastfed them all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's a good idea as long as the mum hasn't got lots of Strep b, then it would be a big problem. However in that case it would be a big problem if the baby was born by the vagina too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?"
.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Since half the male profiles on here say they love licking down there and will do it for hours, I'm not sure why they'd have a problem with this concept

It's not the licking that's a problem it's having something come out and smile at you when your doing it .

Hehe that made me "

Even though the discussion is C-sections so nothing would be coming out smiling

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The trouble is we all rush to the doctors with a bad cough these days and demand antibiotics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since half the male profiles on here say they love licking down there and will do it for hours, I'm not sure why they'd have a problem with this concept

It's not the licking that's a problem it's having something come out and smile at you when your doing it .

Hehe that made me

Even though the discussion is C-sections so nothing would be coming out smiling "
.

I know but I was thinking of that scene from alien only in a sexual way

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it"

Exposure to bacteria when young is a major factor in the development of a strong immune system. It's not an old wive's tale.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"The trouble is we all rush to the doctors with a bad cough these days and demand antibiotics"

No we all don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The trouble is we all rush to the doctors with a bad cough these days and demand antibiotics

No we all don't. "
.

No but alot do and you only need a significant amount of people to effect the whole population!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it

Exposure to bacteria when young is a major factor in the development of a strong immune system. It's not an old wive's tale."
.

Isn't that what I just said?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it"

yes viruses. see, i am a complete failure at immune systems and discussing them.

i get what you're saying. one of my sons had chicken pox 3 times but none of my other kids did because their immune system sorted it out properly the first time, so i get how more exposure can help to boost your system until it becomes immune. or maybe it helps your body to recognise what is alien in your body and should not be there? just remembering what i learned about how the immune system fights cancer.

i just don't get how adding more of a mothers bodily fluids will boost a baby who already has her immune system and antibodies anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn't think new borns had much of an immune system anyhow, I thought the general rule was they developed it over a number of years? A bit like kneecaps.

I don't know, I just presumed that's why they burn up with a temperature with every illness and snot pours out constantly?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it

Exposure to bacteria when young is a major factor in the development of a strong immune system. It's not an old wive's tale..

Isn't that what I just said?"

I was agreeing with you.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I'm going to leave this one to Topsy. If she can be bothered dealing with it. I won't be surprised if she can't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ok, i'm really no expert on immune systems, but i'm pretty sure all babies have their mothers immunity from birth anyway. it gets passed on in the last trimester.

so how would wiping mums bacterias onto a baby improve that?

In the same way that exposing them to dirt helps improve their immune systems.

In the days before everything got 99% bacteria free the practice was to leave babies hands a bit dirty so that they could start eating their peck of dirt.

i mean that they're immune to everything their mum has been exposed to, so they have her antibodies already at birth and got them through the placenta, (not sure how long they keep this extra immunity for - did think it was 6 months but google tells me otherwise). they shouldn't need the vagina to give them germs also or need to build up their immune system that way.

although i do struggle with the immune system so maybe i can't get it. are they making the baby have it's own separate immune system and it works differently because the germs are first hand and not gotten through the placenta and this affects something?.

I don't think you can get an immunity from bacteria?. Only virus's and even then you can't if the virus mutates frequently!.

I would imagine the more your exposed to "germs" the stronger your immune system gets, like a gym workout, maybe that old wives tale, "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger" had a bit of truth to it

yes viruses. see, i am a complete failure at immune systems and discussing them.

i get what you're saying. one of my sons had chicken pox 3 times but none of my other kids did because their immune system sorted it out properly the first time, so i get how more exposure can help to boost your system until it becomes immune. or maybe it helps your body to recognise what is alien in your body and should not be there? just remembering what i learned about how the immune system fights cancer.

i just don't get how adding more of a mothers bodily fluids will boost a baby who already has her immune system and antibodies anyway."
.

I always thought you have the chicken pox virus forever, the immune system just puts it into dormancy in the nerve endings which is why you get secondary shingles?.

I don't know if that's the same with all viruses, I read about that Scottish nurse that had the ebola, it seems it's dormant in her eyes?... Like I said I don't know myself but I find it very interesting it somebody does!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn't think new borns had much of an immune system anyhow, I thought the general rule was they developed it over a number of years? A bit like kneecaps.

I don't know, I just presumed that's why they burn up with a temperature with every illness and snot pours out constantly?"

they don't have a good ability to regulate their temperature, which is why most parents tend to overdress their kids and use loads of blankets.

and their immune system is from their mother at birth, and should be kept topped up with breastfeeding. but modern medicine has made this not as important now.

their immune system works differently to an adults. if a child gets chicken pox it won't get pushed into vital organs like it would with an adult. i only know these basics really and can't remember a lot about them and really struggle understanding some stuff, which sucks coz i want to get more into genetics and have a real interest in that.

i'm not sure how viruses are kept at bay and can come back in the form of shingles, but i know how it works for warts and veruccas, as well as cancer, so am guessing it's something similar to that. that for some reason your immune system doesn't recognise something as alien to the body and treats it like it's one of your own cells so doesn't attack it.

i also am now wondering how come my son managed to get rid of his chicken pox but he then caught it again 2 more times? his immune system must have already got rid of it once so why did he catch it again? i need a scholar site or something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn't think new borns had much of an immune system anyhow, I thought the general rule was they developed it over a number of years? A bit like kneecaps.

I don't know, I just presumed that's why they burn up with a temperature with every illness and snot pours out constantly?

they don't have a good ability to regulate their temperature, which is why most parents tend to overdress their kids and use loads of blankets.

and their immune system is from their mother at birth, and should be kept topped up with breastfeeding. but modern medicine has made this not as important now.

their immune system works differently to an adults. if a child gets chicken pox it won't get pushed into vital organs like it would with an adult. i only know these basics really and can't remember a lot about them and really struggle understanding some stuff, which sucks coz i want to get more into genetics and have a real interest in that.

i'm not sure how viruses are kept at bay and can come back in the form of shingles, but i know how it works for warts and veruccas, as well as cancer, so am guessing it's something similar to that. that for some reason your immune system doesn't recognise something as alien to the body and treats it like it's one of your own cells so doesn't attack it.

i also am now wondering how come my son managed to get rid of his chicken pox but he then caught it again 2 more times? his immune system must have already got rid of it once so why did he catch it again? i need a scholar site or something."
.

I read an interesting article awhile back about a Swedish tradition of leaving baby's outside in their prams for an hour or two while the parents go shopping, they said in Sweden, is seen as a good way to help the baby's immune system!... It was very interesting even for just the different cultures of leaving your baby in a pram alone for two hours lol... There'd throw you in prison here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think the temperature is the body's way of trying to get rid of the virus/bacteria, a bit like snot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I didn't think new borns had much of an immune system anyhow, I thought the general rule was they developed it over a number of years? A bit like kneecaps.

I don't know, I just presumed that's why they burn up with a temperature with every illness and snot pours out constantly?

they don't have a good ability to regulate their temperature, which is why most parents tend to overdress their kids and use loads of blankets.

and their immune system is from their mother at birth, and should be kept topped up with breastfeeding. but modern medicine has made this not as important now.

their immune system works differently to an adults. if a child gets chicken pox it won't get pushed into vital organs like it would with an adult. i only know these basics really and can't remember a lot about them and really struggle understanding some stuff, which sucks coz i want to get more into genetics and have a real interest in that.

i'm not sure how viruses are kept at bay and can come back in the form of shingles, but i know how it works for warts and veruccas, as well as cancer, so am guessing it's something similar to that. that for some reason your immune system doesn't recognise something as alien to the body and treats it like it's one of your own cells so doesn't attack it.

i also am now wondering how come my son managed to get rid of his chicken pox but he then caught it again 2 more times? his immune system must have already got rid of it once so why did he catch it again? i need a scholar site or something..

I read an interesting article awhile back about a Swedish tradition of leaving baby's outside in their prams for an hour or two while the parents go shopping, they said in Sweden, is seen as a good way to help the baby's immune system!... It was very interesting even for just the different cultures of leaving your baby in a pram alone for two hours lol... There'd throw you in prison here"

used to be tradition here to leave babies outside in the UK also. there was more fresh air then though. am sure most babies would become polluted if we did it these days. in fact there has been some concern that upright strollers make the toddler too close to car exhausts for them to be healthy.

the temperature going up does help you get better, but again i'm not sure how. but advice now is not to bring temperature down for anyone ill and let them sweat it off. including babies. only if they start fitting do you need to bring their temperature down, which is more likely with kids under 5 as they can't regulate their temperature like adults can.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Do you think the temperature is the body's way of trying to get rid of the virus/bacteria, a bit like snot"

It is, a little bit. It's the reaction of the white cells working overtime.

I have an autoimmune disease so I start running a temperature when my body is attacking itself for no sensible reason at all.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

This is from the NHS site about "being too clean":

"The idea is based on "the hygiene hypothesis", first proposed in a 1989 study by Prof David Strachan, which suggests that a lack of childhood exposure to harmful germs and fewer childhood infections are to blame for the rise in allergies.

Although it is catchy, the phrase "hygiene hypothesis" is somewhat misleading and it has been wrongly used in the media to suggest that modern hygiene standards are bad for our health.

It is important that we do not relax our personal and home hygiene standards. Exposure to germs is only one of several reasons that could explain the rise in allergies and may not be the most important one.

Can homes really be 'too clean'?

No amount of cleaning can rid the home of germs. As fast as they are removed by cleaning, new germs return via humans and pets, contaminated food, the outside air etc. The idea that we now live in sterile homes is totally wrong. It's impossible to sterilise our homes.

Why is hygiene important?

Good hygiene is critical in stopping the spread of disease-causing germs, such as colds and flu, tummy bugs like campylobacter, salmonella and E. coli O157, in the home and beyond, on food, from our pets and between people. Particular care should be taken to protect at-risk groups such as babies, whose immune systems have not fully developed, and people with a weakened immune system because of illness or medication.

Doesn't exposure to germs strengthen our immune system?

It is thought that exposure to both good and bad germs in the first few years of life helps to develop the immune system – an idea distinct to the hygiene hypothesis. This helps the body to learn how to fight infection and to tell the difference between harmful and harmless substances.

Throughout life, it is also important that our bodies have the right balance of some exposure to both good and bad germs (present in our everyday environment), particularly in our gut and on our skin, to ensure that the immune system is trained to deal with different kinds of substances. Changes in this balance can cause the immune system to react unpredictably and it may find it difficult to tell when it is being attacked.

Maintaining this balance means not being afraid of getting outside and getting dirty sometimes. However, you should take every precaution to reduce your exposure to harmful germs by ensuring good personal and home hygiene, particularly if you are in an at-risk group.

Exposure to germs such as E.coli, norovirus and the measles virus can be very dangerous and can lead to life-threatening illnesses. These types of infection can cause permanent damage to your body and immune system so it cannot fight infection as well when it is attacked again.

People who maintain a healthy lifestyle tend to have a stronger immune system. Lifestyle factors that can weaken the immune system include drinking too much alcohol, poor diet and stress.

But can't you develop immunity to germs like salmonella, E. coli, flu and so on?

To a certain extent, yes. Coming into contact with a specific harmful germ such as salmonella or measles will cause the body to respond and make antibodies, which neutralise the germ and protect against that particular germ. But deliberately exposing yourself to such germs is risky because you may become very seriously ill before your body can respond and fight the infection – and if you survive you will only have developed immunity against that particular germ.

This is why we developed vaccines so that we can be exposed to small safe doses of germs such as the flu, the measles virus and so on in a carefully controlled way that gives us protection without making us ill."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow, it's all very interesting stuff going on minute by minute without you ever knowing!.

I remember reading a bit about germs while reading Lovelock's book about Gaia, I found that hypothesis thoroughly enjoyable

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"I didn't think new borns had much of an immune system anyhow, I thought the general rule was they developed it over a number of years? A bit like kneecaps.

I don't know, I just presumed that's why they burn up with a temperature with every illness and snot pours out constantly?"

Some babies seem to be born with a pristine gut, no bacteria. Whilst others seem to have theirs differently - presumably from amniotic fluid ingestion.

The first few years has an amazing explosion in the growth of the immune system. We rely on foreign organisms for much of our health. The human population has very varied gut flora, with siblings differing. It's still uncertain what all of these organisms are that inhabit us though we know that our digestion is supported.

What I'd not like is any shaming to ever occur for mothers who've not managed to breast feed or if they had a caesarean. So more research is needed really, as we can help deduce if there are better ways of supporting a baby's immune system development.

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By *ophieslut OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

When I said 'no bacteria', I meant pretty much none. There's bound to be one or several.

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