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UK Business and training

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Why is it, that businesses in this country appear shy to train people in the uk, and want migration to fix the skills gap? Am i wrong on this? Nothing to do with racism as there's plenty multi race unemployed brits.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I'm not sure I follow?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"Why is it, that businesses in this country appear shy to train people in the uk, and want migration to fix the skills gap? Am i wrong on this? Nothing to do with racism as there's plenty multi race unemployed brits."

Which businesses specifically or do you mean generally?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Is it purely a money saving scheme? Bearing in mind that migration means more unemployed to look after.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Tell you what, go off an think about it.

When you've worked out the point, come back and tell us?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can you give an example op?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow?"
businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships "

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Can you give an example op?"
well it seems to be across the whole spectrum. Building trades, IT, communications, engineering.. To name a few

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can you give an example op? well it seems to be across the whole spectrum. Building trades, IT, communications, engineering.. To name a few"

A more specific one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh I get you...they would rather plug the gap by importing bodies than paying to start up apprenticeships?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

perhaps we don't have the required skill sets here in the UK?

I know there are a shortage of engineers, especially female ones, but it takes time to train people up so why not ship people in that already have the required skills

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because it costs time and money to train people. Some businesses prefer to take on workers who can do the job from the get go and don't give a toss how much it effects the unemployed or the economy as long as they are lining their pockets. Alternatively there are other businesses that have the ethos of training young people up if they can afford to do so

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can you give an example op? well it seems to be across the whole spectrum. Building trades, IT, communications, engineering.. To name a few"

I work in communications and of 60+ colleagues, we have 2 Spaniards, an Italian and an American - the rest are British and that's despite being based in Central London.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. "
could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/03/16 17:08:25]

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Can you give an example op? well it seems to be across the whole spectrum. Building trades, IT, communications, engineering.. To name a few

I work in communications and of 60+ colleagues, we have 2 Spaniards, an Italian and an American - the rest are British and that's despite being based in Central London."

London is not representative of the UK

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

There was a fella representing the construction industry on the tele last year talking about the problem finding people wanting to take up apprenticeships.

I've just done a quick google and found that to be true. Construction and trade apprenticeships accounted for only 7% of apprenticeships in 2014.

And according to a poll from RatedPeople, 53 per cent of young people last year (2014) admitted to dismissing learning a trade, preferring a more academic career path.

There is no shortage of applications for apprenticeships in the creative industries I imagine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician"

The dark side of apprenticeships are that there are companies that are happy to take on apprentices and receive the grants that come with the apprentices and are happy to pay someone a low wage and once they have completed their apprenticeship they will not keep them on and they will find another apprentice and repeat the cycle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician"

apprenticeships these days are not like the ones they had years ago where there was a guaranteed job waiting at the end of it...these days they are just another way for the government to manipulate the unemployment figures

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

Well the " free market" in UK means that companies are not obliged to give training to employees ( unless its statutory training, for example for safety)

Companies ( over a certain size) are obliged to give people time off ( unpaid) under certain circumstances, if the employees ask for it.

Over here in France ( and in Germany), most types of company are obliged by law to provide a certain amount of training to employed ( paid hours) and to pay for the training (though they get some assistance from government funding .). They are also obliged to fund general apprentice college training through their business taxes .

Many UK companies will not want to eat into their profits if they can contract ready- trained staff.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician

The dark side of apprenticeships are that there are companies that are happy to take on apprentices and receive the grants that come with the apprentices and are happy to pay someone a low wage and once they have completed their apprenticeship they will not keep them on and they will find another apprentice and repeat the cycle"
bugger! I suspected that too.. Especially when there's ones like apprentice receptionist positions and the like.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician

apprenticeships these days are not like the ones they had years ago where there was a guaranteed job waiting at the end of it...these days they are just another way for the government to manipulate the unemployment figures"

I didn't even get a job on any of my job placements back in the day. The places just used trainees to keep the business afloat with the money they got for 'training' us, or for extra money (BT got prosecuted for high turnover of trainees and not employing any of them). This was the beginning of the 1990s.

My ex has been doing them recently, all there is round here are charity shops. Although he did end up ass. manager in one about 8 years ago from training.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician

The dark side of apprenticeships are that there are companies that are happy to take on apprentices and receive the grants that come with the apprentices and are happy to pay someone a low wage and once they have completed their apprenticeship they will not keep them on and they will find another apprentice and repeat the cycle bugger! I suspected that too.. Especially when there's ones like apprentice receptionist positions and the like."

Yeah there are some ridiculous "apprenticeships" like apprentice waiter.... Seriously?! Like TheFabulousMsFox pointed out it's just a way for the government to make it look like they are tackling unemployment but if you think about it they really aren't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Where have you seen this information?

It was my understanding that apprenticeships were on the increase, but maybe not if you know otherwise. I've not seen apprenticeships feature as much in the news recently. could be a regional thing. Friends have had their kids take apprenticeships without being able to find work afterwards.. One being an electrician

The dark side of apprenticeships are that there are companies that are happy to take on apprentices and receive the grants that come with the apprentices and are happy to pay someone a low wage and once they have completed their apprenticeship they will not keep them on and they will find another apprentice and repeat the cycle bugger! I suspected that too.. Especially when there's ones like apprentice receptionist positions and the like."

exactly! why bother employing someone with 20 years experience and pay them the top of their pay scale when you can get 2 or 3 'apprentices' to do the job for half the money.... its a no brainer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships "

Really? All of them?

The businesses I've worked for have been more than happy to train those with good education, core skills, aptitude and attitude.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/03/16 17:28:34]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure I follow? businesses seen to look to fix the skills gap by migration, rather than taking on assenticeships

Really? All of them?

The businesses I've worked for have been more than happy to train those with good education, core skills, aptitude and attitude. "

Oh, and to do a nice bit of cross-thread love, in the last 15 years I've only worked in one building which wasn't built using European regional development grants.

Gotta love the EU for their help in generating local jobs

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Flaming heck.. What a comprehensive mess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Flaming heck.. What a comprehensive mess "

Because of the range of opinions that you didn't expect?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"perhaps we don't have the required skill sets here in the UK?

I know there are a shortage of engineers, especially female ones, but it takes time to train people up so why not ship people in that already have the required skills"
well yes.. There's still male dominated areas.. Not just engineering either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it costs time and money to train people. Some businesses prefer to take on workers who can do the job from the get go and don't give a toss how much it effects the unemployed or the economy as long as they are lining their pockets. Alternatively there are other businesses that have the ethos of training young people up if they can afford to do so"

Why would UK business, concern themselves with the unemployment figures? And if you mean by lining their pockets, keeping the business afloat, and gaining new business, and trying to secure the future if existing employees, then that's what they are suppose to do.

To many people view business owners as some kind of pantomime villan, who's only endeavor is to shit on their employees.

It's simple, if I could employ someone who has the skill set that I need, why would I actively seek out someone who is going to cost time and money, and then may go and find another job elsewhere after I've paid for all that training.

It makes no sense

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By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France


"perhaps we don't have the required skill sets here in the UK?

I know there are a shortage of engineers, especially female ones, but it takes time to train people up so why not ship people in that already have the required skills well yes.. There's still male dominated areas.. Not just engineering either"

It was unbelievably disheartening for me and my two ( female) bosses - who were highly qualified and competent engineers and scientists- when our organisation engaged in a really hard drive in schools to encourage girls to follow scientific / engineering studies; the utter wall of disinterest put up;

Not by the boys, or the teachers, but by the girls; "not interested", " we are women/ girls, we just don't do science"

" women scientists are ugly/boring/geeks" etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Because it costs time and money to train people. Some businesses prefer to take on workers who can do the job from the get go and don't give a toss how much it effects the unemployed or the economy as long as they are lining their pockets. Alternatively there are other businesses that have the ethos of training young people up if they can afford to do so

Why would UK business, concern themselves with the unemployment figures? And if you mean by lining their pockets, keeping the business afloat, and gaining new business, and trying to secure the future if existing employees, then that's what they are suppose to do.

To many people view business owners as some kind of pantomime villan, who's only endeavor is to shit on their employees.

It's simple, if I could employ someone who has the skill set that I need, why would I actively seek out someone who is going to cost time and money, and then may go and find another job elsewhere after I've paid for all that training.

It makes no sense"

I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not do I was merely answering the question put before me although I'm sure there are some businesses that could afford to hire someone and give them the training to carry out the job but aren't interested in that at all

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By *anda and CatCouple
over a year ago

.

I own a company and have had apprentices on my books for the last 5 years. Let me tell you finding one, a decent one is nearly impossible. All the talk of government creating apprenticeships is fine but I have been advertising for one for the last 12 months and kids just don't want to do them (not in my trade anyway) the ones that have applied have been sent by mummy and are more interested in staying in bed! No, I am not saying all school leavers are the same, I'm saying in my experience the ones I have seen are not interested in on the job training, they would rather stay on at college, get academically trained and then think they will be on full salary as soon as they start work. The ones I have trained have gone on to start their own companies so I am proud of the opportunity I offer but kids just don't see the potential.

(I'm going to go hide in a corner now and duck)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I own a company and have had apprentices on my books for the last 5 years. Let me tell you finding one, a decent one is nearly impossible. All the talk of government creating apprenticeships is fine but I have been advertising for one for the last 12 months and kids just don't want to do them (not in my trade anyway) the ones that have applied have been sent by mummy and are more interested in staying in bed! No, I am not saying all school leavers are the same, I'm saying in my experience the ones I have seen are not interested in on the job training, they would rather stay on at college, get academically trained and then think they will be on full salary as soon as they start work. The ones I have trained have gone on to start their own companies so I am proud of the opportunity I offer but kids just don't see the potential.

(I'm going to go hide in a corner now and duck)"
fair point.. If all you get is school leavers with that attitude

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was at school absolutely no one was pushed into apprenticeships. They were barely mentioned at all and there was hardly any information on apprenticeships. We were all taught that going to university was the only way we'd ever get a good job and some were not able to get the grades plus some just had no interest at all. I personally was an apprentice and found it to be a good scheme but sometimes I felt looked down upon by those going to university and I also felt that some people went to university just because it's what everyone else did. It was like there was a stigma that apprenticeships were not "cool". I have no idea what school is like these days but I hope kids get more information on apprenticeships than we did but this could be why some apprentices are not really interested in what they are doing because they were taught by their school that they can do this and that but it's not achievable for everyone

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By *oodlandCoupleCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Since the government has raised the participation age, the schools are doing their upmost to keep young people there (more money for them), what the majority of schools don't publicise is the fact that their children must be in some for of education till they reach 18 years of age, apprenticeships being a form of education - although that is due to change, but like all things it will be years before that happens.

There is lots of changes happening n the landscape, apprenticeship frameworks is being scrapped and apprenticeship standards will take it's place, specifically designed for employers by employers. The 'free' will also change and all employers with a payroll bill of more than £3m will have to a levy 0.5% of their payroll. That means that those employers and SME's will have to pay upfront for any apprentice they want to employ (government will contribute £2 for every £1 the employer pay).

How all this will work can still change, first changes in funding for large employers is April 2017. So employers is going to have to put their hand in their pockets, gone are the days of free training/qualifications.

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