FabSwingers.com forum: MPs expenses fraud

By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

another MP has been jailed today for expenses fraud, of £14,000. Eric Illsley has been jailed for 12 months. My friend who is a probation officer says he will be in a open prison inside 7 days and released on "tag" after 3 months and will remain on tag for 3 months, on tag means he will have to be home between 7pm aand 7am. Doesn't seem much of a punnishment to me. How does everyone else feel? After all this was our money

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By *teborahCouple
over a year ago

warrington

have to make scapegoates of someone so they seem to be addressing the problem dont they.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think they are tossers to be honest.they robbed the public US.

like you say they will be out in a few weeks , in a big house flash cars ect.

dont seem right to us at all

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By *erekduvallCouple
over a year ago

swansea

He also claimed Legal aid for his costs

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

And if you stole £14,000 you would get a much stiffer sentance. Plus since he was not sentanced to over 12 months then he can still be a MP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with you about the punishment but its good to see this being brought to the courts , its been rife and almost accepted for so long hopefully the bad publicity will deter others rather than the punishment .Most first offenders would probably be treated similarly would they not ?

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

my friend the probation officer told me about one man who stole less than £7,000 from his employers and received a 4 year sentance so probably not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what gets us is they dont need the money, so why do it in the first place

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Our friends run a building business, last week they had to be closed down because the shopfitting company they were doing contract work for crashed owing them £275,000.

It will end up costing our friends EVERYTHING....yet the shopfitting company will probably open up again under a new name within a few weeks.

The directors of the offending company continued to trade knowing they were over Three Quarters of a Million Pounds in debt....yet they will get away scott free.

So kind of makes the Twelve months sentence for the fiddling MP seem a fair enough punishment for me....when others carry out 'legal' crimes in business and finance every day and get away with murder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my friend the probation officer told me about one man who stole less than £7,000 from his employers and received a 4 year sentance so probably not"

That seems pretty harsh , i remember a story of a bank worker last year or so who diddled an old dear out of £25 k , i think from memory she got a year or so , maybe to do with paying back or something

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Our friends run a building business, last week they had to be closed down because the shopfitting company they were doing contract work for crashed owing them £275,000.

It will end up costing our friends EVERYTHING....yet the shopfitting company will probably open up again under a new name within a few weeks.

The directors of the offending company continued to trade knowing they were over Three Quarters of a Million Pounds in debt....yet they will get away scott free.

Thats bad , i lost a couple of grand last year to a company who folded arse deep in debt , they were trading 3 months later with a slightly different name and directorships in relatives names , wankers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Our friends run a building business, last week they had to be closed down because the shopfitting company they were doing contract work for crashed owing them £275,000.

It will end up costing our friends EVERYTHING....yet the shopfitting company will probably open up again under a new name within a few weeks.

The directors of the offending company continued to trade knowing they were over Three Quarters of a Million Pounds in debt....yet they will get away scott free.

I lost my business in the same circumstances and another sub contractor went down when a major contractor pulled the same stunt ..parasites.....and totally legal..

My day will come..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"what gets us is they dont need the money, so why do it in the first place"

Oh they do, to pay for their new fooking lightbulbs, sorry crossed over from another thread lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting debate about the rehabilitation of offenders on Question Time this evening. Iplay it and hear some viewpoints if you can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The expenses scandal is just an amusing diversion really. Far more egregious is what our MPs actually do, and how very few of them have any genuine ideological beliefs and will simply take the whip's advice on how to vote. Look at the vote on Iraq; a dossier that a GCSE student could have put together in half-an-hour and both sides of the house simply approve it like a bunch of lemmings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"what gets us is they dont need the money, so why do it in the first place"

Don't they? Devine isn't one of the multi-millionaires who haunt the Tory front bench. He's just an ordinary working man who's expected to run a home in his constituency, a home in London, the small business which is his constituency office, travel between his constituency and Westminster, be in the public eye 24x7 and more on about £65,000 a year???????

He isn't the brightest button in the jar and he takes a good bucket. He fucked up. He isn't the first and he won't be the last.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"what gets us is they dont need the money, so why do it in the first place

He isn't the brightest button in the jar and he takes a good bucket. He fucked up. He isn't the first and he won't be the last."

You can't see but I am applauding. Very well said.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

David Cameron's present front bench MP's between them hold 115 (YES, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN) paid directorships of companies....many of them prominent companies that will do very well thank you out of the impending privatisation of government services like NHS outsourcing.

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Our friends run a building business, last week they had to be closed down because the shopfitting company they were doing contract work for crashed owing them £275,000.

It will end up costing our friends EVERYTHING....yet the shopfitting company will probably open up again under a new name within a few weeks.

The directors of the offending company continued to trade knowing they were over Three Quarters of a Million Pounds in debt....yet they will get away scott free.

I think I would have been calling in a payment long before it escalated into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Big lack of interim payments there. Wonder why - did yur friends say?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"David Cameron's present front bench MP's between them hold 115 (YES, ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN) paid directorships of companies....many of them prominent companies that will do very well thank you out of the impending privatisation of government services like NHS outsourcing.

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors."

Jobs fer the boys ? .....yep...

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

It wasn't theft it was fraud

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors.

Jobs fer the boys ? .....yep..."

Why is anyone surprised at Torys mantra of cutting public services? Historically the writing was on the wall... same as their love of high unemployment. Nowts changed except the cut of their saville row suits...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors.

Jobs fer the boys ? .....yep...

Absolutely .....and using the current financial crisis to hide behind ....or should that be the Carlton Club ...

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Like any well worked company implosion they suckered in contractors over the space of several years, paying them well at first, giving them a bigger slice of the pie bit by bit......building up confidence, then involved them in a major hotel and restaurant refit with the help of fiddling accountants and a dubious bank manager.

When you have over Thirty craftsmen on site and materials being shipped in daily it doesn't take that many weeks to kill off a medium sized building company.....if that was the intention in the first place.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors.

Jobs fer the boys ? .....yep...

Why are they surprisedBecause they are morons who rather than looking at how much better off the country was believed the right wing tabloid propaganda,

As we return to massive hospital waiting lists,run down schools,mass homelessness on the streets,mass unemployment,fewer public services,will they remember there was an alternative....i doubt it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it. Look at how much money they pissed up the wall on things like PFIs. The divide between rich and poor got worse under a supposedly left of centre government which is a damning indictment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jemima is spot on.

The whole country was warned what the Tories would be like if they came to power. Time has shown that warning to be correct.

Nobody can claim to be surprised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it.........."

That's simply untrue.

Things were going fairly well till the weekend the banks went bust. If Gordon Brown hadn't stepped in to bail them out there's a lot of people would have found the cash points empty on the Monday morning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it. Look at how much money they pissed up the wall on things like PFIs. The divide between rich and poor got worse under a supposedly left of centre government which is a damning indictment."

I can only agree with that...they had a once in a generation chance to effect meaningful change....

I think the moniker Tory Blair was very aposite .....

They hardly seem to be an effective opposition at the moment either ....

We ain`t well served whichever way you look ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two party politics hold the aces. One party that never changes its spots and one who is said to have failed. What do you think the alternative is? Personally Id like to see people fit to run the economics of our country like business entrepreneurs and those with a real social conscience to run the health and education of the country - and the diplomatic to deal with foreign policy. All creamed from society and not a politician in sight. Proven track record being the entry requirements - not the colour of school tie they wear.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

There was effective and lasting change for millions in this country post 1997...

The legacy from that first manifesto and it's benefits to millions of low paid workers has enabled them to earn a living wage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .......

They hardly seem to be an effective opposition at the moment either ....

............."

There's a good case for keeping your powder dry when your enemy is busy stabbing each other in the back.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

Yes, i wish in 1997 more radical change had happened,but that wasnt the mandate from the voters,

But seriously,where was this failing country that all these cuts are supposed to be saving us from.

We have a mortgage,thats all....and like all mortgages so long as repayments are kept up your home is not at risk.

The tory rewriting of history re the sub prime fiasco is interesting though,whose friends are being got off the hook by that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......"

It's exactly what happened to Churchill. He was there and did the right thing when the country needed him but people felt his presence reminded them of how close a call it had been.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ........The tory rewriting of history re the sub prime fiasco is interesting though,whose friends are being got off the hook by that?"

The same people who are paying each other HUGE 'bonuses'.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......

It's exactly what happened to Churchill. He was there and did the right thing when the country needed him but people felt his presence reminded them of how close a call it had been."

Ahh i must disagree there,churchill was voted out largely on the army vote.What actually happened was that the classes mixed,many saw how appalling the state was there comrades had lived in and believed the NHS and welfare state were necessary.Remember the labour party ran the country during the war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......

It's exactly what happened to Churchill. He was there and did the right thing when the country needed him but people felt his presence reminded them of how close a call it had been."

Have to agree. Mr Brown was not a self serving politician. Nor was Churchill.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

dont matter which party they are ,i wouldnt trust any of them, there just all two faced fools out for themselfs.

can you imagine sat in a pub , and saying lets scrap the ark royle aicraft carrier, then build two new ones, but take all the harrier planes off.

everyone would think you were pissed.

then they divide the country in 1/2, and leave yorkshire and lincolnshire to fend for ourselfs, madness

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

" ........The tory rewriting of history re the sub prime fiasco is interesting though,whose friends are being got off the hook by that?

The same people who are paying each other HUGE 'bonuses'."

yup,and people still blame brown

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's simply untrue.

But they did go bust. Gordon Brown's utopia of 'no boom and bust' was never achievable because economies don't work like that. It was always going to go pear-shaped eventually.

New Labour were the worst of both worlds; an unholy blend of Thatcherite free market economics and an engorged public sector. The irony is they would have won in 1997 even without abandoning all their principles, and even with a huge majority they were too pusillanimous to carry through any genuinely progressive policies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......

It's exactly what happened to Churchill. He was there and did the right thing when the country needed him but people felt his presence reminded them of how close a call it had been."

he was scuppered by Blair ..through and through ..

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By *icksfocus OP Man
over a year ago

Pontefract

yeah they would think it was just one of those d*unken discussions and laugh at you

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By *at n michaelCouple
over a year ago

AYRSHIRE

shag anyone lol.....

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By *at n michaelCouple
over a year ago

AYRSHIRE

[Removed by poster at 11/02/11 00:46:45]

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

All the same regardless of there respective parties. snake skin salesman and gangsters in suits. I guess there morality kind of tuck a dive when Bill Clinton got caught with his pants down in the oval office,,and got away with it, so hey lets fook politics and become celebrity politicians and laugh at your own exspense after all its us paying.

The true faith of if you tell lies often enough people swallow them from fiddling exspenses to lying to there own by misleading there own parliment on reasons to go to war over an illusion of wmd to simply secure oil deposits.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Other countries severely effected by the Sub Prime crime of the century are spending and investing their way out of recession.....USA, Japan, Germany, France....all have falling unemployment and decent growth.

The one that stands out for achieving the opposite is Britain....Cuts, cuts, cuts.....rising unemployment, shrinking growth, rising inflation, interest rates on the brink of rising.

The best gift Labour ever gave the Tories was a deficit....played right into their hands.

What's next?......Cuts in the Minimum Wage anyone?

Because it's being banded about on the Tory backbenches as a serious possibility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

I`m a natural labour supporter....and in all honesty repected Brown ....and he took credible action when it all went tits up ....history will credit him with that I hope ......

It's exactly what happened to Churchill. He was there and did the right thing when the country needed him but people felt his presence reminded them of how close a call it had been.

Have to agree. Mr Brown was not a self serving politician. Nor was Churchill."

Indeed....he has a genuine ideaology and conviction to serve ....respect for that ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ..........

What's next?......Cuts in the Minimum Wage anyone?

Because it's being banded about on the Tory backbenches as a serious possibility."

I doubt it'll actually be cut but we can probably wave goodbye to any sort of increases for the next 4 years.

Glasgow City Council has introduced a minimum Glasgow Living Wage of £7.00 per hour for all employees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Two party politics hold the aces. One party that never changes its spots and one who is said to have failed. What do you think the alternative is? Personally Id like to see people fit to run the economics of our country like business entrepreneurs and those with a real social conscience to run the health and education of the country - and the diplomatic to deal with foreign policy. All creamed from society and not a politician in sight. Proven track record being the entry requirements - not the colour of school tie they wear."

The problem is the majority of them are career politicans. Even when they lose their seat it's straight on to highly-paid directorships and advisory roles for big business. Look at that Channel 4 documentary about Byers, Hoon and co. touting their wares around like a bunch of cheap whores. And these were crappy workaday politicans, not great statesmen! Credit to somebody like Robin Cook who actually had the integrity to resign over a matter of principle but he's the exception not the rule these days.

So yeah, change is needed but it'll never happen. The reform of the House of Lords only led to even more wankers being parachuted in by their respective parties. Guido Fawkes had the right idea.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

Have to agree. Mr Brown was not a self serving politician. Nor was Churchill.

Indeed....he has a genuine ideaology and conviction to serve ....respect for that ...."

That, I believe, is down to the difference between being a son of the Manse and the son of a stockbroker and estate agent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The next two quarters of growth will be interesting to see and their impact on the political scene ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shall we all get out of our armchairs and lobby our MP's tomorrow or regroup here and grumble again.. say 00.00 hours?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I`ve got to split .....but really enjoyed the discussion...sharing views ..and learning stuff ...brilliant ...thanks all..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I`ve got to split .....but really enjoyed the discussion...sharing views ..and learning stuff ...brilliant ...thanks all.."

Its been great. I have started my letter. I've chosen to ask about where my MP stands on campaigning for huge companies being told if they make such obscene profits to create more employment and training opportunities within their organisations for our young unemployed who cannot afford to go to university now.

Night night all xxx Thanks for the company

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Shall we all get out of our armchairs and lobby our MP's tomorrow or regroup here and grumble again.. say 00.00 hours?"

lets just riot its a great adrenline rush oooops for a minute there i forgot i was english/british at least its interest free payments anyway back to my day job ,,,more tea vicar.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nite all good post that one

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

i hope sky do not nick grumpy old men i would be lost for ideas to moan about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah the Tories will never change but the failure lies with New Labour who had a mandate for change in 1997 but basically bottled it..........

That's simply untrue.

But why should the Banks be any different from any other private company; why not let them go bust? Brown took the decision (admittedly a tough one) to shore up a few badly managed banks to the tune of £1 billion of taxpayers money...and now we're all suffering the consequencies.

As for MPs stuffing their trousers through paid Directorships, morally wrong maybe; but not illegal. Not much difference between that and say David Miliband pocketing a few thousand pounds by joining Sunderland football club, or Ed Balls taking more money to fund his Labour leadership campaign from a handful of rich city financiers than he did from the unions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

...............

Because, as I mentioned earlier, if Gordon hadn't supported the banks when they ran out of cash, there'd have been no money - literally NO money - in the cash machines on Monday morning.

People will remember the chaos which ensued when there was even a sniff of Northern Rock going tits-up and that was a comparitively small institution by comparison with the others.

The state has a guarantee scheme in place to pay the depositors in banks which go bust up to the sum of £50,000

per institution but

1) that would have taken time to administer and some people would have been left penniless in the meantime and

2) a lot of folk have much more than £50,000 on deposit and

3) (I think I'm right on this) the scheme doesn't apply to business deposits - so many people's wages wouldn't have been paid at the end of that month.

Not bailing the banks out wasn't a viable option.

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

corrupt corrupt from the bottom to the top they tell us its the law. Power corrupts unfortunatley its an unbreakable human condition every individual will always put there own needs before anybody elses by any means at there disposal. There has been a few to contradict what i am saying but these people are more the exception than the rule.

Shocking to now see the same people denouncing the Iraq invasion and sending troops to afghanistan when it was the same people that agreed it in the first place. an example harriet harman clapping milbands speech about pulling the troops out in the future.

Then you have the ones that turn a blind eye to Asian sex gangs for fear of losing there seats when most of there constituents are of asian descent.

As voters what are we left to do there are no other parties to choose from other than the two charlatan parties. We could not vote but then were just left with the same people in seats of power.

we need a credible 3rd party with a new agenda other than its own self interests.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .........

I wasn't aware of Ed Balls being supported by "rich city financiers" but it raises an interesting question.

Why were "rich city financiers" keen to have Ed - with all his policies which are so derided by Obsorne and others - in charge of opposition finance policy?

Paid directorships? I'm not wholly against that provided there's care taken over potential conflicts of interest. Where it gets iffy is when MPs are off doing paid work for companies at a time when they're being paid to represent their constituents.

BTW. It isn't just directorships. A number of MPs are still practising barristers and advocates.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not relevant i know but..I know Ed Balls from when he was at education,He's a nice bloke and his heart's in the right place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

...............

Because, as I mentioned earlier, if Gordon hadn't supported the banks when they ran out of cash, there'd have been no money - literally NO money - in the cash machines on Monday morning.

People will remember the chaos which ensued when there was even a sniff of Northern Rock going tits-up and that was a comparitively small institution by comparison with the others.

The state has a guarantee scheme in place to pay the depositors in banks which go bust up to the sum of £50,000

per institution but

1) that would have taken time to administer and some people would have been left penniless in the meantime and

2) a lot of folk have much more than £50,000 on deposit and

3) (I think I'm right on this) the scheme doesn't apply to business deposits - so many people's wages wouldn't have been paid at the end of that month.

Not bailing the banks out wasn't a viable option."

Yes, it was always a viable option. As you say, people were being largely covered up to £50k. Now, I don't know about you; but I suspect few ordinary people have more than £50k tucked away in the Bank.

Now we face the prospects of those very same Banks taking the piss by again paying out large bonuses to their already highest earning staff; again not illegal.

And Lehman Brothers staff funding Ed Balls. The world truly has gone mad!

The bottom line is that Banks only make profits from their customers; we all have it within our power to vote with our feet and change Banks.

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

i find it hard how anbody after the event can speak up for Gordon Brown .

He promised us a referendum on europe in his manifesto only to become pm and not allow us the right to vote.(he lied)

He sold of the countries gold supplies whilst chancellor for under a third of the market value at the time. so nothing in the reserve tank when the banks nearly went under. (He is FICK)

As chancellor he took away millions of peoples private pensions leaving such people with the prospect of a very unsure future. (hE;S A thief)

He called an old lady asking a legitamite question a bigot.

Look at the state of the country now what a mess he has left behind for future generations to still pay through the nose for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As voters what are we left to do there are no other parties to choose from other than the two charlatan parties. We could not vote but then were just left with the same people in seats of power.

we need a credible 3rd party with a new agenda other than its own self interests."

And even when you vote for the third party, they drop all their principles when they get in anyway. The LibDems' metamorphosis from left of centre progressives to the Tories' bitches since the election is quite incredible. And then they say they have no choice. You're propping the government up, of course you have a choice ffs!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

.........

And Lehman Brothers staff funding Ed Balls. The world truly has gone mad!

...................

I might be wrong about this but I though Lehman went bust a couple of years ago and at the time Ed Balls stood for Labour leadership last Autumn they didn't actually have any staff.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Popular misconception about how the major banks earn the vast majority of their profits....everyday non commercial banking actually costs many banks like RBS money, when the present government recently toyed with the idea of breaking up the banks into smaller companies the City had to bring it to their attention that over the counter banking is in many cases a loss making venture for a great number of banks.

Most of the profits of British banks are made overseas with high risk investments.

So any idea of people voting with their feet and forcing the banks to behave is frankly ridiculous.

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By *nvictusMan
over a year ago

Beeston

I was shocked and horrified by the whole MP's expenses thing...... no hookers, no drugs, no expensive lingerie for 'the girlfriend'...

Pathetic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

So any idea of people voting with their feet and forcing the banks to behave is frankly ridiculous."

There IS another choice. Credit unions.

Not as convenient (for now) but a damn sight cheaper than High St banking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was shocked and horrified by the whole MP's expenses thing...... no hookers, no drugs, no expensive lingerie for 'the girlfriend'...

Pathetic.

You're confusing the expenses business with a Tory party conference

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"As voters what are we left to do there are no other parties to choose from other than the two charlatan parties. We could not vote but then were just left with the same people in seats of power.

we need a credible 3rd party with a new agenda other than its own self interests.

whats the choices then ??? regardless of party beliefs they all sing from the same hymm sheet. With the march and rise of the brussels faceless beurocrats many national mps including our own are all basically redundant as there just following orders from brussells.

It did make me barf a bit camerons bull about reigning in imigration to get elected a complete lie as he would have known we do not have the right to control our own immigration intake as the power to do so was handed to brussells by brown and millband.....probably for there own agenda of cushy numbers as meps after there posts in british politics had gone by the way. example tony blair self interest in shafting britain in hope of becoming president of europe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As voters what are we left to do there are no other parties to choose from other than the two charlatan parties. We could not vote but then were just left with the same people in seats of power.

we need a credible 3rd party with a new agenda other than its own self interests.

With all due respect, do we really have any kind of proper choice?

We as consumers of course do on a daily basis; we can choose to shop at Asda, Tescos or Sainsbury's etc...we choose the clubs we like to visit best. We can bank at HSBC, RBS or wherever we want.

With our Parliament these days, the truth is fewer and fewer believe we have any choice at all...and that's why so many can't be arsed to vote.

Now I'm pretty liberal, but giving the likes of David Chaytor or Eric Illsley the opportunity to vote from their prison cells has swung that particular argument for me...oh, and letting Raul Moat elect his local police commissioner; it's just a no-brainer really.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"i find it hard how anbody after the event can speak up for Gordon Brown .

He promised us a referendum on europe in his manifesto only to become pm and not allow us the right to vote.(he lied)

He sold of the countries gold supplies whilst chancellor for under a third of the market value at the time. so nothing in the reserve tank when the banks nearly went under. (He is FICK)

As chancellor he took away millions of peoples private pensions leaving such people with the prospect of a very unsure future. (hE;S A thief)

He called an old lady asking a legitamite question a bigot.

Look at the state of the country now what a mess he has left behind for future generations to still pay through the nose for.

What 'Manifesto' did Gordon Brown promise to offer a referendum on Europe in?

Are you talking about a referendum on continued membership of the EU?

Labour under the leadership of Gordon Brown only published One manifesto...and that resulted in an election that Labour and Brown lost in 2010.

There was no 'Manifesto' released from Brown prior to his becoming Labour leader....because there was no leadership contest!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...........

Why have we no control over immigration from EU countries? 'Cos we're a member of the EU.

When did we join the EU? 1972

Who was Prime Minister at the time? Ted Heath.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i find it hard how anbody after the event can speak up for Gordon Brown .

He promised us a referendum on europe in his manifesto only to become pm and not allow us the right to vote.(he lied)

He sold of the countries gold supplies whilst chancellor for under a third of the market value at the time. so nothing in the reserve tank when the banks nearly went under. (He is FICK)

As chancellor he took away millions of peoples private pensions leaving such people with the prospect of a very unsure future. (hE;S A thief)

He called an old lady asking a legitamite question a bigot.

Look at the state of the country now what a mess he has left behind for future generations to still pay through the nose for.

What 'Manifesto' did Gordon Brown promise to offer a referendum on Europe in?

Are you talking about a referendum on continued membership of the EU?

Labour under the leadership of Gordon Brown only published One manifesto...and that resulted in an election that Labour and Brown lost in 2010.

There was no 'Manifesto' released from Brown prior to his becoming Labour leader....because there was no leadership contest!!!"

I think that quite nicely backs up my previous point really.

That said, there is a small part of me(only a very small part) that who does feel a little sorry for those MPs recently jailed (or at least for their families). They have been unlucky to have been caught out (but rightly so).

But this kind of lies, deceipt and corruption has been going on for years, and years and years at Westminster...not to mention in Councils all over the land.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

A little point about Gordon Brown trading Britains Gold reserves between 1999 and 2002.....when the gold was traded (and it was roughly half of Britains gold reserves) it was sold not at a third of the value....but at market value at that time.

You are mixing up the price it fetched in 1999-2002 and it's market value today.

Ten years down the line the value of gold has indeed tripled....but that's hindsight, like me selling my BP shares the week before they announced a Russian oil deal and them rising by 12%.

Incidentally the period 1999-2002 saw record sales of gold by governments, including The USA, Canada, Germany and France.

Between 1999 and 2001 gold prices were shrinking, governments buy and sell gold all the time....nothing new there.

For example Britain traded roughly a fifth of it's gold reserves in a two year period after the Falklands war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

But this kind of lies, deceipt and corruption has been going on for years, and years and years at Westminster...not to mention in Councils all over the land."

One place which has managed to remain almost wholly unsullied by allegations of corruption etc is the Scottish Parliament.

This may, of course, be down to the fact it's done fuck all else (apart from the smoking ban).

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Incidentally.....Britains Immigration Border controls re: Non EU nationals is not and never has been controlled by Brussels....you have dreamt it up that Brown or Milliband gave away any powers on Non EU immigration.

And like it has already been stated, you cannot control EU migration without walking away from the EU....something that all Three parties would never hold a referendum on in the future.....too much money tied up in European trade.

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Incidentally.....Britains Immigration Border controls re: Non EU nationals is not and never has been controlled by Brussels....you have dreamt it up that Brown or Milliband gave away any powers on Non EU immigration.

Your not a labour mp or banker by any chance are you ?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Your not a labour mp or banker by any chance are you ?

No I am a realist.....it's all too easy to make sweeping statements about immigration without stating all the facts....not just ones you think people want to hear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

Your not a labour mp or banker by any chance are you ?

No I am a realist.....it's all too easy to make sweeping statements about immigration without stating all the facts....not just ones you think people want to hear."

As UKIP, the BNP and Immigration Watch have discovered.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ...."

I doubt it. The overwhelming draw will still be to the UK because of the universality of the English language.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ....

I doubt it. The overwhelming draw will still be to the UK because of the universality of the English language."

You`re probaly right ..however...

I`ve worked on constuction sites for years .....and come across the complaints of Brits ala ...bastards taking our jobs......

They`re either to young or have convenient memories....loads of Brits worked in Europe during the last real recession..with the mass unemployment et al....

I`ve never had a thoughtful answer as to why it was ok fer us ...but not for others ...

As to the OP...well..he`ll and the others will be out soon enough I guess...

Ironically ..the new system for claiming expenses..seems to be harming a meaningful democracy ....it`ll only be the silver spoon career types that we`ll have erm ...representing us .......

Funny old world ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And many of you fell for the old 'Top heavy NHS needs a cut in administration and management' spiel from Cameron and co.?

Biggest financial crime in the House of Commons isn't a few thousand in fiddled expenses.....it's contracts that will be awarded to companies with Tory MP's as directors.

Jobs fer the boys ? .....yep...

Why are they surprisedBecause they are morons who rather than looking at how much better off the country was believed the right wing tabloid propaganda,

As we return to massive hospital waiting lists,run down schools,mass homelessness on the streets,mass unemployment,fewer public services,will they remember there was an alternative....i doubt it."

Juust what is that alternative ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ....

I doubt it. The overwhelming draw will still be to the UK because of the universality of the English language."

and the benefits system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ....

I doubt it. The overwhelming draw will still be to the UK because of the universality of the English language.

and the benefits system

You have to wonder how much of an attraction that'll be after IDS is finished with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Auf Wiedersehen Pet .....I wonder if Germany etc will be flooded with economic migrants ala early mid eighties, in the coming few years ....

I doubt it. The overwhelming draw will still be to the UK because of the universality of the English language.

and the benefits system

You have to wonder how much of an attraction that'll be after IDS is finished with it."

Ah, the benifits system question...nothing to do with how much Scotland is subsidised by the UK taxpayer of course I guess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

Ah, the benifits system question...nothing to do with how much Scotland is subsidised by the UK taxpayer of course I guess."

The benefits system has nothing to do with the Barnett Formula but to an extent you're right. Barnett has certain unfairnesses built in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

Ah, the benifits system question...nothing to do with how much Scotland is subsidised by the UK taxpayer of course I guess.

The benefits system has nothing to do with the Barnett Formula but to an extent you're right. Barnett has certain unfairnesses built in."

As does the West Lothian question!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/02/11 16:55:24]

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

" ...........

Why have we no control over immigration from EU countries? 'Cos we're a member of the EU.

When did we join the EU? 1972

Who was Prime Minister at the time? Ted Heath."

I meant the signing of the european constitution if thats its true name by tony blair later given a new name to something else when some countries who did get a referendum told brussels where to go. So the Brussells lobby simply changed the name so they could push it once more on the countries that rejected it. i think the word is they ratified it and this was signed by brown and millband.

Yes im fully aware of the Eu this was not what i was reffering to.

Yes all countries including ours have always through time brought in migrants from other countries. The differnce being is Blair and his new labour buddies wanted to play with social engineering and instead of monitoring immigration he practically opened the borders to all and sundry allowing mass immigration into the uk. I think the word is "multiculturism"

Were the British people ever given a choice or a vote on this? No i dont think they were.

At the time were we even allowed to discuss this openly well yes we could if we wanted the stigma of being branded racists.

To some of the posts going on in here i admit i am of working class origin working within a white coller job.

People see the fallout of Blairs social engineering in our children failing because the teachers have to put there time into teaching people who came here how to speak english, They see them fast tracked to the top of the housing list etc. So further weight already put upon struggling councils. combine that with gords no boom an bust clap trap well i really do worry about my sons future.

We were shafted and as they did so they put there hands over our mouths by use of political correct bullshit so we couldnt speak out or rather vote on allowing our borders to be a lighthouse for mass immigrtion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"another MP has been jailed today for expenses fraud, of £14,000. Eric Illsley has been jailed for 12 months. My friend who is a probation officer says he will be in a open prison inside 7 days and released on "tag" after 3 months and will remain on tag for 3 months, on tag means he will have to be home between 7pm aand 7am. Doesn't seem much of a punnishment to me. How does everyone else feel? After all this was our money"

Fraud of any sort is unacceptable no matter if it is an MP or a dosser on the dole. Both need jailing and there should be stiffer sentences. We should also use prisoners for labour and help reduce costs for building new prisons. Maybe the government could spend some of the drugs dealers asserts seized to help subsidise new prisons too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

But this kind of lies, deceipt and corruption has been going on for years, and years and years at Westminster...not to mention in Councils all over the land.

One place which has managed to remain almost wholly unsullied by allegations of corruption etc is the Scottish Parliament.

This may, of course, be down to the fact it's done fuck all else (apart from the smoking ban).

Erm, the Scottish Parliament and "dying" Libian bombers springs to mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ken Clarke has already announced plans to shut prisons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..............

But this kind of lies, deceipt and corruption has been going on for years, and years and years at Westminster...not to mention in Councils all over the land.

One place which has managed to remain almost wholly unsullied by allegations of corruption etc is the Scottish Parliament.

This may, of course, be down to the fact it's done fuck all else (apart from the smoking ban).

Erm, the Scottish Parliament and "dying" Libian bombers springs to mind."

Why?

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By *eighleedsMan
over a year ago

leeds

Whislt not defending the Mps who have done this, lets ask teh following two questions

How many of you have expenses accounts (or allwowed to claim back expenses) from the company you work for

If you answered yes,

Then the follow up is how many times have you put things on the company expenses account / submitted reciepts for things that are really not for work use?

goes on all the time in any company

ok not on the same scale, but its the same morality

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Whislt not defending the Mps who have done this, lets ask teh following two questions

How many of you have expenses accounts (or allwowed to claim back expenses) from the company you work for

If you answered yes,

Then the follow up is how many times have you put things on the company expenses account / submitted reciepts for things that are really not for work use?

goes on all the time in any company

ok not on the same scale, but its the same morality

Actually a very good point, a bit like the people who moan about benefit cheats....then are happy to buy cigarettes and tobacco from duty evadars.

Same goes for self employed people like myself who are encouraged to claim for everything by our accountants....even stuff that isn't truefully used in the course of our businesses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" .........

Actually a very good point, a bit like the people who moan about benefit cheats....then are happy to buy cigarettes and tobacco from duty evadars.

................."

Or pirate DVDs, illegal music downloads, stuff from the neighbourhood shoplifter, stolen stuff in general, red diesel in road cars and so on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whislt not defending the Mps who have done this, lets ask teh following two questions

How many of you have expenses accounts (or allwowed to claim back expenses) from the company you work for

If you answered yes,

Then the follow up is how many times have you put things on the company expenses account / submitted reciepts for things that are really not for work use?

goes on all the time in any company

ok not on the same scale, but its the same morality

I'm self employed and I claim back everything I'm allowed to.

The amount of income tax I pay every year makes me blush, But while it's perfectly legal to do I will

Who wouldn't?

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By *ne ShotMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Ken Clarke has already announced plans to shut prisons."

and Cameron slapped mad Ken down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"............ Maybe the government could spend some of the drugs dealers asserts seized to help subsidise new prisons too.

Ken Clarke has already announced plans to shut prisons.

and Cameron slapped mad Ken down. "

Cameron HASN'T slapped Clarke down.

From the Ministry of Justice website a few minutes ago.

"Plans to close Lancaster Castle and Ashwell prisons and re-role Morton Hall prison to an Immigration Removal Centre, have been announced today.

Work to implement these changes will start immediately." dated 13 January 2011.

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