FabSwingers.com forum: Scaremongering by France re the EU

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

France could end UK border controls in Calais and allow migrants to cross the Channel unchecked if the UK leaves the EU, France's finance minister has said.

Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times his country could also limit access to the single market and try to tempt London's bankers to relocate.

Will they really let anyone over without checking their documents ? Because surely if they don't - we would just return the favour ? We would get to the stage if they did that - that the channel tunnel would end up being unfeasible surely ?

More propaganda if you ask me! Cameron is rubbing his hands together - thinking yep the public won't vote out!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck Cameron if that's the case he and his shite cabinet then have to set up a contingency to counter it. I hate how politicians think they can bully the general public though fear.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

What use is France what use are the French they only were our friends when we Liberated them from the Germans

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

I don't understand how constant threats of bullying is meant to make the EU more appealing.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *endrix30Man
over a year ago

dudley

Its a shame the channel tunnel was ever built. Imagine what would have happened if it existed during world war two, the nazis would have soon had tiger tanks on our streets. Now the french want to let huge numbers from across the world invade our towns and cities making our housing crisis worse. If it was upto me i'd destroy that bloody tunnel before the world moves in.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't understand how constant threats of bullying is meant to make the EU more appealing."

Simple make the fact of leaving the EU so bad that people vote to stay in.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Its a shame the channel tunnel was ever built. Imagine what would have happened if it existed during world war two, the nazis would have soon had tiger tanks on our streets. Now the french want to let huge numbers from across the world invade our towns and cities making our housing crisis worse. If it was upto me i'd destroy that bloody tunnel before the world moves in."

Well Napaleon wanted to build a tunnel wonder why?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

BMW, basically threatened it's UK workers if we vote to leave. Nice to know how the EU negotiates, gun to your head. All the more reason to vote to leave. The stay camp keep telling us we will lose out on trading with the EU, my question is, how will the EU replace what we buy in a short timespan? We import far more than we export. I don't like blackmail when I'm trying to negotiate, I hope this tactic backfires spectacularly. The UK is a sovereign nation and should be treated as such, if they think they have us over a barrel by using threats, just think how they might treat us if we vote to stay. The EU will fail in the not too distant future, it's unsustainable in it's current form.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has been general knowledge since before the last election, that i know of.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *errygTV/TS
over a year ago

denton

we have a natural border the sea, it kept hitler from invading, we just tighten security, the money would come from the pot that would have been used to pay the benefits of migrants

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

"we have a natural border the sea, it kept hitler from invading, we just tighten security, the money would come from the pot that would have been used to pay the benefits of migrants"
Those ladies who should have got there state pension at 60 and having to wait 6 year,s are paying for them

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wondering now who voted the Tories in at the last election not knowing this would happen if we pull out of the EU?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *onnie and JohnCouple
over a year ago

andover

73 uk mep's will be job hunting...The standard monthly payment for all MEPs is 7,957 euros (£6,537). It is roughly on a par with a British MP's salary, but when the pound is weak, MEPs earn more than MPs. MEPs also get a flat-rate monthly allowance of 4,299 euros to cover office expenses, such as office rent, phone bills and computer equipment.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

"France could end UK border controls in Calais and allow migrants to cross the Channel unchecked if the UK leaves the EU, France's finance minister has said.

Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times his country could also limit access to the single market and try to tempt London's bankers to relocate.

More propaganda if you ask me! Cameron is rubbing his hands together - thinking yep the public won't vote out! "

Lol. Just trying to think who would want to go en masse to France. And, if hitler were to invade through the tunnel, I have a cunning plan that just might work.

Truth is they are always going to sound scaremongering and negative because because of what might be lost. I can see positives in both but the Brexits are wholly negative too.

Ill probably vote to stay in but the EU government is a fucking dogs breakfast that needs us to change it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ack with a bangCouple
over a year ago

Hastings

"BMW, basically threatened it's UK workers if we vote to leave. Nice to know how the EU negotiates, gun to your head. All the more reason to vote to leave. The stay camp keep telling us we will lose out on trading with the EU, my question is, how will the EU replace what we buy in a short timespan? We import far more than we export. I don't like blackmail when I'm trying to negotiate, I hope this tactic backfires spectacularly. The UK is a sovereign nation and should be treated as such, if they think they have us over a barrel by using threats, just think how they might treat us if we vote to stay. The EU will fail in the not too distant future, it's unsustainable in it's current form.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"France could end UK border controls in Calais and allow migrants to cross the Channel unchecked if the UK leaves the EU, France's finance minister has said.

Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times his country could also limit access to the single market and try to tempt London's bankers to relocate.

More propaganda if you ask me! Cameron is rubbing his hands together - thinking yep the public won't vote out! "

The sad thing is, so many in the UK are so gullible that they actually believe this, so many are frightened of change

the best way to describe most is Stockholm syndrome

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

People talk about jobs in the EU.

Did they save the miners no

Steelworkers no

Council and cival servants no

Do they care about the peeps on low paid jobs in supermarkets etc no.

What the fuck do they care about?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"France could end UK border controls in Calais and allow migrants to cross the Channel unchecked if the UK leaves the EU, France's finance minister has said.

Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times his country could also limit access to the single market and try to tempt London's bankers to relocate.

More propaganda if you ask me! Cameron is rubbing his hands together - thinking yep the public won't vote out!

The sad thing is, so many in the UK are so gullible that they actually believe this, so many are frightened of change

the best way to describe most is Stockholm syndrome "

Awwww I wanted to be the first to say Stockholm syndrome

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People talk about jobs in the EU.

Did they save the miners no

Steelworkers no

Council and cival servants no

Do they care about the peeps on low paid jobs in supermarkets etc no.

What the fuck do they care about?"

Dirty pretty things, good minds think alike

as for the above quote; they are talking about people from EU coming over and doing unskilled work or lower skill work, working on farms, hotel work, working in bars, etc and lower trade work

Anyone who is educated and highly skilled in a job will not have to worry about finding work in EU after we leave; corporations will take care of passports and work visa's same as they do for countries outwith EU such as USA; Australia, Malaysia etc, if you have a skill that an employer wants he wont give two hoots if we are in the EU, especially if a large corporation

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Project fear is rapidly becoming project nonsense. While I suppose "in theory" anything and everything could happen (in theory I could be the next PM) the reality is it wont. Next time you drive down the motorway make a mental note of how many Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Audi's you see. Does anyone really think the Germans would allow the EU to hit the UK with a 10% tax on car imports knowing that Britain would almost certainly retaliate with the same on theirs? The same could apply to French Italian or Spanish wine growers, Spanish fruit and vegetable growers and many many more. As for restrictions on tourists, that is the most despicable lie of the lot. So France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Portugal, and especially Spain are going to make life difficult for their biggest tourist market? Pull the other one. As for expats, someone should read the 1969 Vienna Convention. A leave vote will only guarantee that the EU will be scrambling to Britain for a deal. Not the other way around.

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Project fear is rapidly becoming project nonsense. While I suppose "in theory" anything and everything could happen (in theory I could be the next PM) the reality is it wont. Next time you drive down the motorway make a mental note of how many Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Audi's you see. Does anyone really think the Germans would allow the EU to hit the UK with a 10% tax on car imports knowing that Britain would almost certainly retaliate with the same on theirs? The same could apply to French Italian or Spanish wine growers, Spanish fruit and vegetable growers and many many more. As for restrictions on tourists, that is the most despicable lie of the lot. So France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Portugal, and especially Spain are going to make life difficult for their biggest tourist market? Pull the other one. As for expats, someone should read the 1969 Vienna Convention. A leave vote will only guarantee that the EU will be scrambling to Britain for a deal. Not the other way around.

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html"
I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why is telling the UK what will change if they leave the EU considered fear mongering? Things simply won't stay the same. That's just the way it is. And some of the changes will not benefit Britain. If that is fear mongering then reality must be a scary place

-Courtney

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around .."

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"France could end UK border controls in Calais and allow migrants to cross the Channel unchecked if the UK leaves the EU, France's finance minister has said.

Emmanuel Macron told the Financial Times his country could also limit access to the single market and try to tempt London's bankers to relocate.

More propaganda if you ask me! Cameron is rubbing his hands together - thinking yep the public won't vote out! "

SWITCH ON RADIO2 JEREMY VINE RIGHT NOW

12 - 12:30 full debate on this

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event."

Agree and also suspect that once we leave, others will follow,

which countries do you suspect will be the next 5 to leave after we do?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event."

I think 10 years is quite optimistic.

Should Britain vote to leave it will be very interesting to see how many others will follow.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event.

Agree and also suspect that once we leave, others will follow,

which countries do you suspect will be the next 5 to leave after we do?"

Denmark and Finland would be high on my list. Both have had a belly full. I wouldn't rule out one or two of the former Yugoslavia countries either, but the real Elephant in the room could be France.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What the hell is it to do with france( or another country for that matter). We the british public are quite capable of making our own decisions thank you very much

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I don't see any scaremongering. We may or may not leave. This will have an impact upon other countries. They will plan to deal with a changed situation. That is all.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they do, we need the army down there to deter anyone trying to get in.

That, or we destroy the tunnel.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

Al Murray as been telling us a long about the French

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre."

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event.

Agree and also suspect that once we leave, others will follow,

which countries do you suspect will be the next 5 to leave after we do?

Denmark and Finland would be high on my list. Both have had a belly full. I wouldn't rule out one or two of the former Yugoslavia countries either, but the real Elephant in the room could be France."

Well i think Germany will be the first to flex its muscles when we leave and then we will see the proper benefits of the "union".

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am all for a common market with free trade.

I am all against political union and lack of sovereignty.

I don't believe the EU will survive in its current form for more than 10 years in any event."
.

Ditto,I have no idea where this idea in this country comes from that all of Europe are massively pro EU, even Germany which had the most to gain from the EU and were very very pro EU are showing a large minority that are no longer very happy, France, Denmark, Finland even Sweden has seen a massive rise in right wing politics... If Donald trump should show us anything it's that people aren't happy.

I personally don't think it's the EU concept perse but there's really large parts of it, like freedom of movement, laws, lack of border controls, common currency and such that really is completely unnecessary for a working EU.

As for threats from France, I think they could be shooting themselves in the foot, the UK has a long history of not liking being told what to do

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade."

That wasn't my point.

The idea that other countries, either individually or as a union, will fall over themselves to set up free trade agreements with Britain completely overlooks that those countries are just as likely to choose narrow self-interest and national grumpiness in their decision making as this country is. To simply assert that they will trade under similar conditions as present is to completely negate all other factors - nationalism overriding industry desire for free trade in those countries being one.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering."

I completely agree. There's no reason why an arrangement like this one *has* to come to an end if Britain leaves the EU, but every reason why it might! Like opposition politicians in France who oppose it taking advantage of a likely "fuck you" spirit towards us if we throw our toys out of the pram and leave to open up these kind of agreements and renegotiating them once we're in a far weaker position. There is so much naivety in all the assertions that we can make all these new agreements on trade, borders, whatever - we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering."

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering."

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

"
.

That is the most common misconception going and the reason we have such a huge unsustainable trade balance deficit.

So expensive German cars are good for our economy but bad for YOUR purse, there's a difference

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He is right tho, why should france keep them if england goes out? Maibe its time England thinks of building a wall. Whilst there is time left.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the more they threaten the uk the more likely that people are going to vote to leave.

I for one would not be told you better do this or else

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

That is the most common misconception going and the reason we have such a huge unsustainable trade balance deficit.

So expensive German cars are good for our economy but bad for YOUR purse, there's a difference"

Would you mind explaining that a bit further - I don't get your point.

I know little about economics, but I contend that other factors must be taken into the equation, not least how much we'll piss other countries off.

It probably makes perfect sense economically for free trade with Britain to continue (although I'd therefore question why anyone bothered with a common market in the first place), but that isn't necessarily what will happen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest argument for staying appears to be fear of the unknown with constant references to a leap into the dark, if that's the best reason for staying in its time to leave

If we only ever did things that we knew the end result of nothing new would ever be invented or discovered

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

That is the most common misconception going and the reason we have such a huge unsustainable trade balance deficit.

So expensive German cars are good for our economy but bad for YOUR purse, there's a difference

Would you mind explaining that a bit further - I don't get your point.

I know little about economics, but I contend that other factors must be taken into the equation, not least how much we'll piss other countries off.

If pissing some other country is what it takes so be it. Maybe just maybe it might make all the other countries wake and smell the coffee or the sad state of affairs called the EU.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He is right tho, why should france keep them if england goes out? Maibe its time England thinks of building a wall. Whilst there is time left."

Well, France signed an agreement with us to the effect that migrants would be kept and processed at Calais. That agreement had little to do with membership of the EU. It was more motivated by the French desire not to attract more migrants and our ability to resource security at Calais.

And, no, we don't need to build a wall. We have water around us.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"He is right tho, why should france keep them if england goes out? Maibe its time England thinks of building a wall. Whilst there is time left.

And, no, we don't need to build a wall. We have water around us."

Shame theres no sharks

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

That is the most common misconception going and the reason we have such a huge unsustainable trade balance deficit.

So expensive German cars are good for our economy but bad for YOUR purse, there's a difference

Would you mind explaining that a bit further - I don't get your point.

I know little about economics, but I contend that other factors must be taken into the equation, not least how much we'll piss other countries off.

If pissing some other country is what it takes so be it. Maybe just maybe it might make all the other countries wake and smell the coffee or the sad state of affairs called the EU."
so if Britain leaves the eu and then the eu fails do you think Britain would be great and all its neighbors will fall ?...everyone will fall together it would be every country for itself in securing trade deals and tariffs the UK will have to compete with likes of France and Germany for the same markets and a lot of industries here would suffer

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 15:26:32]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He is right tho, why should france keep them if england goes out? Maibe its time England thinks of building a wall. Whilst there is time left.

And, no, we don't need to build a wall. We have water around us."
That is right and yeah I heard that to that they signed that agreement as well, yeah handy with lots of water around us as well.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 15:26:32]"
Greece also has lots of water around it ...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 15:26:32] Greece also has lots of water around it ..."
I misspelt hard for heard there, but yeah that is right they have water to there.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it amusing how the realities of how narrow nationalism can override the benefits of free trade are completely denied by narrow nationalists who don't accept the benefits of free trade.

It's bizarre.

Of course we accept the benefits of free trade. We just abhor political union and the overriding of our national sovereignty. If we leave, we will still have free trade.

That wasn't my point.

There's a great deal of wishful thinking going on - the idea that the union will fall apart is a triumph of hope over expectation.

but then, I suppose I'm just scaremongering.

You think BMW will not want to export cars to us? France won't want to export wine to us? Yes, you are scaremongering.

Yes, they will.

To make it absolutely clear, for anyone I have erroneously frightened, we will still have German cars and French wine should this country leave the EU.

There's a real prospect that they will be more expensive though.

That is the most common misconception going and the reason we have such a huge unsustainable trade balance deficit.

So expensive German cars are good for our economy but bad for YOUR purse, there's a difference

Would you mind explaining that a bit further - I don't get your point.

I know little about economics, but I contend that other factors must be taken into the equation, not least how much we'll piss other countries off.

When prices go up on imports, that forces/encourages you to buy UK based products!.

So we're currently hemorrhaging around what 8-12 billion pounds a month on the trade deficit, that's the difference of goods sold and goods bought(think of it as pounds in and pounds out).

Cheap imports/expensive exports at the moment.

That would be better with expensive imports/cheap exports!.

That's how China, Japan and Germany do it.

There's obviously alot more to it than just cheapening the pound but it certainly wouldn't hurt our manufacturing output, in fact it would be the opposite as were not huge resource importers

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us. "

'Europe will punish us'

And these are the people we're supposed to want to stay aligned to. The Conservative and French propaganda is just blatant scaremongering. Just think what would have happened if the people of Great Britain had rolled over and caved in to the scaremongering and propaganda coming from a certain European country in 1939.

Next time you complain about the austerity in this country just take a look at the multi million pound offices in Brussels, the chauffeur driven limo's, the expensive restaurant meals and all the other ways that the MEP's have their snouts in the trough living the life of luxury with their big fat salaries all the time forcing immigrants to come and live in our backyard. !!! The European Government is a cess pit of foreign politicians who don't give a fuck about Great Britain, all they're interested in is how much money they can squeeze out of us and how many foreigners they can cram into us.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems to me that from an early age, when someone wants you to do something foolhardy they say "Dare You!!"

If someone else tells you it is not sensible to do what is asked of you that person is often accused of scare mongering.

We should not dismiss the advice or comments of others before they are properly considered however biased they may at first seem.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us.

'Europe will punish us'

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us.

'Europe will punish us'

this basically. The eu in it's current form is a corrupt institution, with no possibility of change. One would wonder why they feel the need to use scaremongering tactics to keep us in, personally i would imagine it's because they get more out of us than we get from them."
that maybe so .but have you heard any concrete plan backed by evidence stating what exactly will happen when we leave ? Like what's Gona happen with trade and how much better off the UK would be? That is worst than scaremongering ..I believe that the UK will lose money.people say that we spend around 58 million per day for European but on the day of the vote even before the outcome I could bet that UK stock market will lose a lot more than that

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us.

'Europe will punish us'

this basically. The eu in it's current form is a corrupt institution, with no possibility of change. One would wonder why they feel the need to use scaremongering tactics to keep us in, personally i would imagine it's because they get more out of us than we get from them. that maybe so .but have you heard any concrete plan backed by evidence stating what exactly will happen when we leave ? Like what's Gona happen with trade and how much better off the UK would be? That is worst than scaremongering ..I believe that the UK will lose money.people say that we spend around 58 million per day for European but on the day of the vote even before the outcome I could bet that UK stock market will lose a lot more than that"

Ah, the "If we leave, what will happen?" argument again. Nothing. We will just be out of a system that is failing and not to our advantage.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

we will be negotiating from a position of weakness and Europe will punish us.

'Europe will punish us'

this basically. The eu in it's current form is a corrupt institution, with no possibility of change. One would wonder why they feel the need to use scaremongering tactics to keep us in, personally i would imagine it's because they get more out of us than we get from them. that maybe so .but have you heard any concrete plan backed by evidence stating what exactly will happen when we leave ? Like what's Gona happen with trade and how much better off the UK would be? That is worst than scaremongering ..I believe that the UK will lose money.people say that we spend around 58 million per day for European but on the day of the vote even before the outcome I could bet that UK stock market will lose a lot more than that"

So have you heard anything that proves its worthwhile to stay in i havent. Bottom line is is it will be swings and roundabouts. But at least if we leave they are our swings and roundabouts

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I think the more they threaten the uk the more likely that people are going to vote to leave.

I for one would not be told you better do this or else

The British never react well to bullying, the French are trying to bully us into staying in the EU with this nonsense.

Lets look at the FACTS. The treaty of Le Touquet is a bilateral agreement between France and Britain, nothing at all to do with the EU. Don't listen to what the government or the news stations or even what anyone on here tells you, just Google it and read about it for yourself. The information about the treaty of Le Touquet is freely available on Wikipedia.

Now when David Cameron said the other week the jungle camp could move from calais to Kent if we leave the EU a french minister said the french government had no plans to alter any agreements!

Then a right wing french politician said last week that France could scrap the treaty of Le Touquet even if we STAY in the EU. Now today saying it could be scrapped if we leave the EU.

Basically the french are all over the shop on this, say one thing one week then something else the next. Clearly shitting themselves that Britain will leave the EU.

In any case the calais jungle camp is a small side show of illegal immigrants when compared to the REAL big issue of the mass immigration of LEGAL EU migrants into Britain each year which we have no control over because of EU free movement of people rules. Only way to get control over that is to leave the EU.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ancscleanguyMan
over a year ago

Preston

Not the bravest nation are they.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply."

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

Of course we will still trade with the EU (our proximity for one reason) but our main asset, financial services, will suffer as will manufacturing exports because EU countries will favour other EU countries. We will become a country in the hinterland of the EU which has a stupidly inadequate and undemocratic governing structure but do you really think this will be improved if we are not a part of it.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

What do you really see as an advantage to leaving. What do you think we can do if we are outside bearing in mind our responsibilities under the Human Rights Act and our continuing acceptance of the European Courts?

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside."

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside."

Let it stay as it is (if it can) from the outside

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting."

Reforming the EU constitution was always going to be a long term job...not achievable in a few weeks. And yes, I have been wavering..I have on occasions thought to hell with it but nobody has convinced me yet how being outside will be better.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 17:56:12]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?"

If we come out it's like divorcing your wife after 40 years. Will I be better off in a bedsit going down the pub for my dinner every night. Endless hatred, arguments and litigation about who owns what. Or am I better off in my own chair in my own living room with more money and putting up with the inane chatter coming from the kitchen. If I leave I have to know that where I am going is better. Now, if I have another woman lined up who has her own place and likes coming down the pub with me I will make that move.

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *MaleMan
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 17:59:29]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks"

Did you know your wifes been fucking around for years?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *MaleMan
over a year ago

Maybe the reason many people want to leave the EU is simply because when any country dares mention/question/discuss aspects of the EU it leads to veiled if not blatant threats.

If your we're in a comparable relationship with a person you'd soon have your doubts and consider bailing out if not actually bailing out. Whilst watching them continue & up their anti whilst inadvertently justifying your stance

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks"

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce."

But somebody tell me a good reason why... what have you got that the EU hasn't. All I hear - from the Anti EU's too is negativity. Convince me I'm better off leaving home...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce.

But somebody tell me a good reason why... what have you got that the EU hasn't. All I hear - from the Anti EU's too is negativity. Convince me I'm better off leaving home..."

People cannot tell you which way to vote it depends on your circumstances and your point of view and what you want. Pros and cons both ways depending on your point of view and what you want. If you don't know your point of view or circumstances or what you want for yourself and the country do you deserve a vote?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce.

But somebody tell me a good reason why... what have you got that the EU hasn't. All I hear - from the Anti EU's too is negativity. Convince me I'm better off leaving home..."

Well one of the main representatives from the British chamber of commerce said today (just saw it on BBC news) Britain could expect to prosper and become more wealthy outside of the EU trading more with the rest of the world and not shackled to an ever decreasing eurozone. A letter signed by 200 small businesses and entrepreneurs said EU red tape was holding their businesses back, they could grow much better outside of the EU.

For many people the issue of leaving the EU has nothing to do with the economic arguments though. It's the principal of having full sovereignty of our own country and having full control over our own laws. Westminster has become subservient to Brussels, it's not for our MP's to give away our democracy and sovereignty to the EU. When our MP'S are elected they should return that unsullied and untouched back to the people when the next election comes around.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce.

But somebody tell me a good reason why... what have you got that the EU hasn't. All I hear - from the Anti EU's too is negativity. Convince me I'm better off leaving home..."

We would be much better at negotiating world trade agreements than the EU.

We would be able to subsidise our industries when required.

We could impose the conditions we thought were required as opposed to accepting whatever is required of us.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *etitmortCouple
over a year ago

ipswich

Same scaremongering that was tried (and many of the same people perpetrating) when we were told it would be disaster if we didn't join the Euro.....

The fear for me is not the change that might happen if we leave but the rapid and irreversible changes that will occur if we stay in!

Anyone who believes staying in means staying the same is very foolish or at least is not fully aware.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

We could just turn them all around and send them back to France - it's a safe country and we're not under any obligation to let them in. It would be simple to stop them from disembarking from the ferries if they don't have the correct documentation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go."

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go."

Since when has François Hollande ( the current Predident) been right wing?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

*president*

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

On a similar note. I'm well aware that Katie Hopkins isn't everyone's (or my) favourite on here but her article today makes quite good reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473483/KATIE-HOPKINS-ve-finally-given-vote-Europe-just-time-collapse-wins-need-prepare-chaos-comes-after.html I disagree with this ...Britain needs the eu more than the eu needs britan ..I keep hearing every one saying that the UK have the 5th largest economy and they would just make a new deal with the eu and their terms .....Well the reality is the UK economy is not larger than the eu economy and in business the company/country with the smaller budget does not dictate the terms and conditions of a deal with a company/country with a larger budget it's the other way around ..

In some ways that is a fair point but the one thing you miss is that Britain has a huge trade deficit with the EU.

So "The customer is always right" could just as equally apply.

So, do you think, if we leave the EU, the deficit will get better or worse? What makes you think we might sell more to them or on our own terms.

And the Polish, Romanian, Baltic workers are never going to return neither will the UK nationals working in Europe.

I say stay in and argue to change it from the inside.

Staying inside it and arguing to change it? That is what Cameron tried and he achieved nothing.

An inadequate and undemocratic structure? Yes, it is.

I was uncertain for a moment as to for which side you were voting.

Has anyone convinced you that staying inside is better?

So, what can you offer if I come and live at your place? Otherwise I'll stay where I am, thanks

To be brutally honest, in that situation it would be best to divorce.

But somebody tell me a good reason why... what have you got that the EU hasn't. All I hear - from the Anti EU's too is negativity. Convince me I'm better off leaving home...

We would be much better at negotiating world trade agreements than the EU.

We would be able to subsidise our industries when required.

We could impose the conditions we thought were required as opposed to accepting whatever is required of us."

No, none of that is correct. Our governments do not agree with subsidising our industries and suppose we did subsidise one we would immediately be penalised by tariffs and protection from other countries - not just the EU. Why should we be any more successful at negotiating separate trade agreements with every country around the world than the EU which is a trading block of 500million. And you know very well that we would have to abide by EU standards and rules in order to trade with them.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read. "

It was mentioned on an episode of the Daily politics programme last week. One of David Cameron's Tory lackeys Matt Hancock was trying to peddle the same scaremongering rubbish as Cameron saying the jungle camp would move to Kent if Britain leaves the EU, then Andrew Neil pointed out to him that right wing elements of the French government already want to scrap the treaty of Le Touquet even if we STAY in the EU. Matt Hancock has been less vocal about it since his interview with Andrew Neil, lol.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We could just turn them all around and send them back to France - it's a safe country and we're not under any obligation to let them in. It would be simple to stop them from disembarking from the ferries if they don't have the correct documentation."

Not if we're following international law. Or is that going to be thrown out too?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

Not if we're following international law. Or is that going to be thrown out too?"

Which law and which bit?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Well said

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?"

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

We don't need the EU like they need us.

We won't suffer with trade, we don't trade that much with them.

And before anyone says "yeah but they take 46% of our exports" have a good read up on the 'Rotterdam Effect'

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now? "

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Does anyone know the history of the EU?

The whole thing started as a way to stop France and Germany from fighting again. Smaller countries nearby joined because they didn't want to be invaded yet a again.

Then the free trade 'Common Market' got us involved. Then it turned into Germany's back door efforts to take over Europe peacefully.

It is so corrupt and over bloated with unelected Eurocrats who decide what happens here.

How can anyone think it's good for us?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Oh and if the French stop border controls we'll just have to tighten up ours this side.

And send people back to France.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

"Does anyone know the history of the EU?

The whole thing started as a way to stop France and Germany from fighting again. Smaller countries nearby joined because they didn't want to be invaded yet a again.

Then the free trade 'Common Market' got us involved. Then it turned into Germany's back door efforts to take over Europe peacefully.

It is so corrupt and over bloated with unelected Eurocrats who decide what happens here.

How can anyone think it's good for us?"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens."

I think you'll find its France who are the ones doing all the threatening.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not if we're following international law. Or is that going to be thrown out too?

Which law and which bit?"

I'm bored with doing the homework that leave people should do first. You go and look it up. Then ask yourself why the UK government can't deport illegal immigrants who have no documents. That's today, and applies to people from outside the EU. Then go and look up what we, the UK, have to do as a nation under international law if someone claims asylum. EU law us just an interpretation of international law.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is so much idiocy being spoken about this, it's beginning to worry me that we might actually vote to leave. And for all the reasons I've already explained ad nauseum I think that would be a huge mistake. It does piss me off that a load of fucking idiots are going to fuck it up for everyone because they're too blinkered to see past the naive, nationalistic utopian rhetoric being peddled by the likes of Boris. So depressing.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens.

I think you'll find its France who are the ones doing all the threatening. "

I think you'll find that's right and it's backed up by the capability to carry out the threat. That is the best sort of threat. Meanwhile you are still wrong for saying that it couldn't or wouldn't happen.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is so much idiocy being spoken about this, it's beginning to worry me that we might actually vote to leave. And for all the reasons I've already explained ad nauseum I think that would be a huge mistake. It does piss me off that a load of fucking idiots are going to fuck it up for everyone because they're too blinkered to see past the naive, nationalistic utopian rhetoric being peddled by the likes of Boris. So depressing. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I can't see any reason to stay in. For the good of the country I mean.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

Not if we're following international law. Or is that going to be thrown out too?

Which law and which bit?

I have and I can find no legally binding obligation on us to do anything other than not return anyone to a country where it is unsafe.

So that's why I asked you specifically which law and which bit.

It must have taken you longer to type the reply than to provide the answer, which leaves me to suspect you don't have one.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does anyone know the history of the EU?

The whole thing started as a way to stop France and Germany from fighting again. Smaller countries nearby joined because they didn't want to be invaded yet a again.

Then the free trade 'Common Market' got us involved. Then it turned into Germany's back door efforts to take over Europe peacefully.

It is so corrupt and over bloated with unelected Eurocrats who decide what happens here.

How can anyone think it's good for us?"

And if people vote to leave? The unelected bureaucrats in the UK are going to have a field day. They are the only ones who will definitely prosper - at least a decade negotiating trade deals (oh and where are we going to get those bureaucrats from - we haven't had to do it for 40 years); HMRC will explode in size; the UK civil service will become a growth area for quangoes as regulatory roles are moved about and they re-invent all the rules that we already have and a few more too for good luck; immigration officers will blossom as ports slow to a crawl and on and on and on. It'll be bad for the UK, bad for UK democracy and great for officialdom.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens.

I think you'll find its France who are the ones doing all the threatening.

When Cameron first said it the other week the "official" reply from a french minister was that they didn't have any plans to change any agreement on UK/France border control. So at that time when i made those comments i was correct. Now the french are flip flopping about all over the place changing their mind like the direction of the wind, more fool me for actually having faith in their initial statement on this.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not if we're following international law. Or is that going to be thrown out too?

Which law and which bit?

I have and I can find no legally binding obligation on us to do anything other than not return anyone to a country where it is unsafe.

So that's why I asked you specifically which law and which bit.

It must have taken you longer to type the reply than to provide the answer, which leaves me to suspect you don't have one."

Believe what you will. It's only yourself that you are fooling.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens.

I think you'll find its France who are the ones doing all the threatening.

And more fool anyone who fools themselves into thinking not knowing is a position of strength. You were wrong.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

There aren't any " right wing elements" in the French government.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU.

François Hollande's right wing party have already stated if they win the elections next year they will remove the UK customs posts in France.

It makes no difference if we are in the EU or not if François Hollande is in charge the customs checks in France will go.

I missed that part - it seemed to be linked to leaving the EU in what I read.

So when you were so boldly telling us a few days ago (and a few posts higher up here today) that it could never happen, you were wrong?

Who knows what could happen? The French don't seem to know themselves. They say one thing one week then the opposite the next. Why would anyone believe anything they say now?

So you are back tracking. You were so sure they couldn't do it. But they can if they want. And it doesn't matter how much the UK blusters or threatens.

I think you'll find its France who are the ones doing all the threatening.

And more fool anyone who fools themselves into thinking not knowing is a position of strength. You were wrong."

Despite President Hollonde's veiled threats today, itv news showed earlier a French immigration minister saying again France has no current plans to change any bilateral agreements with the UK.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

[Removed by poster at 03/03/16 20:06:56]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *S RachaelTV/TS
over a year ago

Lowestoft

"We don't need the EU like they need us.

We won't suffer with trade, we don't trade that much with them.

And before anyone says "yeah but they take 46% of our exports" have a good read up on the 'Rotterdam Effect'

This is 46% of our trade with the Netherlands - not the EU - but the ONS says that because of compensating error effects there is little effect on the balance of trade figures. We certainly do need the EU probably as much as they need us.

And pro-europeans are pointing out that leaving will have costs both financial and political. You can say that is scaremongering but that is not an argument for coming out. You really have to paint us a picture of how you think we will be better off in the long run.