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Life and death row...

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By *irtyGirl OP   Woman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I've a bit of a morbid fascination with crime stuff and I've just started watching this on BBC3 iPlayer.

I'm not really looking for a debate on the death penalty, mainly cause it usually ends in tears, but I'm curious as to what you think about the victims going to witness the execution.

The first episode starts with one of the victims explaining to her child the ins and outs of what happens. It's not really what I expected to see first off and there's a part of me that wonders what's to be gained by telling a wee girl about it.

I guess that's beside the point, the lady was kidnapped and raped by the co-accused and he's already been executed. The second guy shot her, her shoulder has been blown to bits. She's going to watch the execution and has written on a piece of paper to hold up that she forgives him.

People are fascinating.

Do you think it would give you closure to witness an execution of someone who had harmed you? Would you forgive them the moment before they're about to die?

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By *rincesscaracoupleCouple
over a year ago

Saltburn

Its a tough one but I reckon a life time of living with themselves in a jail cell would be worse. Execution could be seen as the soft option.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd potentially witness it, but in protest.

I've forgiven 2 people who have committed crimes against me, but one (which wasn't as severe) I'm struggling with still. I think it depends on the case and my changeable state of mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think I'd have it in me to forgive someone for certain crimes. But that is precisely why I don't think their judgement should rest on my (or any vicim's) shoulders.

Having said that, I would also not attend someone's execution. I am not in favor of the death penalty and if someone were being executed for a crime done to me, then I would consider it an injustice. I'd probably fight for them to be removed from death row. But that is separate from whether or not I personally forgive them for their crime.

-Courtney

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Execution is a punishment that should only be given for murder IMO. Therefore it would be unlikely I would attend one as a victim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

During the course of my life I have witness far to many people dying prematurely.......

I have no desire to watch anyone being executed .....

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I couldn't witness it I'm not sure what good it would do, one of the victims wife said she found forgivness after watching her husbands murderer being killed. I can't say I'm a fan of the death penalty, it seems in some cases that jurors are pushed into making a decision to issue the death penalty as they need all 12 jury to agree.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I stand now,no I wouldn't wish to witness such an act.

But then the loss of a loved one may alter my stance. I hope I never become so wretched that seeing someone die provides me resolution in life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it. "

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire. "

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person

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By *arkstaffsMan
over a year ago

Rugeley

Execution achieves nothing more than revenge (Albert Pierrepoint) and belongs in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person "

Most states require a unanimous decision, some don't. Some require voting on eligibility for death sentence, and a judge decides. If not unanimous, then the judge cannot impose a death penalty.

Jurors "forced" into changing their vote are just weak people who cave to pressure, and give decent grounds for appeals as they clearly misunderstood the role and process.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person

Most states require a unanimous decision, some don't. Some require voting on eligibility for death sentence, and a judge decides. If not unanimous, then the judge cannot impose a death penalty.

Jurors "forced" into changing their vote are just weak people who cave to pressure, and give decent grounds for appeals as they clearly misunderstood the role and process. "

BTW, dead locking is the same as here. They tell the judge they haven't reached a decision, he either accepts it or orders them back to deliberation. It's not an indefinite period, usually no more than a few days - longer is so rare.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would gladly look down at the man who murdered my brother as he died and I'd smile. There is no forgiveness in me for him...sorry.

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By *oward1978Man
over a year ago

Rotherham

I think this is one of those situations where you'd have to live through it to fully understand it. The emotions these victims and their families have to go through, most of us will never get close to feeling that.

I personally can't imagine myself wanting to forgive anyone for such heinous crimes, particularly against loved ones. But then maybe if you are living through it then it does help to gain closure from it to some degree.

I can't see what's to gain from watching someone get execute either. But again, maybe it does help establish closure and gives back some control to the families or the victims.

And I can't say I agree with the death penalty anyway. Too many innocent people get caught in the net. It's not really a deterent. Plus I don't think as human beings we should ever be killing other human beings. As much as I may want to see these criminals wiped off the planet and wiped from history, government sanctioned legalised murder doesn't sit too well with me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person "

Jurors decide issues of fact, not issues of law. Jurors just have to show that, as they see it, the facts do not support a death sentence.

Jurors who are bullied into harsher sentences usually just succumb to peer pressure or get tired of being in the deliberation room. Sad, really, but it does happen.

Check out 12 angry men. It is a great movie that deals with a similar issue.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree fundamentally with the death penalty so I can't agree that it helps the victims to witness it, I really don't understand how it could. I certainly don't believe it would help me in any way. Hopefully I will never be in a situation to test my beliefs on the topic.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person

Jurors decide issues of fact, not issues of law. Jurors just have to show that, as they see it, the facts do not support a death sentence.

Jurors who are bullied into harsher sentences usually just succumb to peer pressure or get tired of being in the deliberation room. Sad, really, but it does happen.

Check out 12 angry men. It is a great movie that deals with a similar issue.

-Courtney"

It's quite sad really espically in this case I saw he had mental health issues which wasn't taken into consideration yes he did kill two people pretty gruesomely as well, I just saw jurors after saying they didn't want to oppose the death sentence but felt pressurised into it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also this maybe a question for Courtney or Fabio, if a juror opposed to the death sentence during dibliberations do they need a legal argument to oppose it? Because on the show I watched some of the jury were saying they weren't leaving the room until the death detente was agreed and some of the jury was disagreeing to it.

You can't be opposed to the death penalty to be on that kind of jury. This is discovered during voir dire.

When they are deciding to either give life imprisoment or death penalty, 12 jurors have to agree to the death penalty I meant what if one of them doesn't want to oppose the DP on that said person

Jurors decide issues of fact, not issues of law. Jurors just have to show that, as they see it, the facts do not support a death sentence.

Jurors who are bullied into harsher sentences usually just succumb to peer pressure or get tired of being in the deliberation room. Sad, really, but it does happen.

Check out 12 angry men. It is a great movie that deals with a similar issue.

-Courtney

It's quite sad really espically in this case I saw he had mental health issues which wasn't taken into consideration yes he did kill two people pretty gruesomely as well, I just saw jurors after saying they didn't want to oppose the death sentence but felt pressurised into it. "

Imagine allowing someone to die because you don't have the courage of your own convictions. It's like a Milgram experiment but worse as its real.

The guy from Making a Murderer is appealing due to a juror doing similar - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3396472/Making-Murderer-subject-Steven-Avery-files-appeal.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would gladly look down at the man who murdered my brother as he died and I'd smile. There is no forgiveness in me for him...sorry. "

No need to say sorry mate .

If anything like that happened to any of my loved ones , I would happily do the same .

An eye for an eye and all that .

Despite there being no evidence to support the use of the death penalty reducing heinous crimes , it would get my vote for child abuse , rape , and murder .

So what if it isn't gonna reduce the amount of people committing these crimes ? It would save a shitload of money spent keeping the scum alive .

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

I saw the second one in the series, where the guy killed a cop, he waived his right to appeal, it was very moving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

An eye for an eye and all that .

Despite there being no evidence to support the use of the death penalty reducing heinous crimes , it would get my vote for child abuse , rape , and murder .

So what if it isn't gonna reduce the amount of people committing these crimes ? It would save a shitload of money spent keeping the scum alive .

"

I'm not commenting on personal situations, but I thought it would be interesting to note that even in the US (where the death penalty is widely used), it is considered cruel and unusual punishment (and therefore contrary to the 8th amendment) to issue a death sentence for the crime of rape. The argument by the Supreme Court was that it was disproportionate to the crime.

I just thought I would mention it in the context of this conversation....

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would gladly look down at the man who murdered my brother as he died and I'd smile. There is no forgiveness in me for him...sorry.

No need to say sorry mate .

If anything like that happened to any of my loved ones , I would happily do the same .

An eye for an eye and all that .

Despite there being no evidence to support the use of the death penalty reducing heinous crimes , it would get my vote for child abuse , rape , and murder .

So what if it isn't gonna reduce the amount of people committing these crimes ? It would save a shitload of money spent keeping the scum alive .

"

Previously would have agreed with what you are saying here. Untill I watched making a murderer that is.

Steven avery hasn't been given the death penalty in another state he easily would have... Makes me wonder how many innocent men have died due to corruption in the judicial systems world over.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would gladly look down at the man who murdered my brother as he died and I'd smile. There is no forgiveness in me for him...sorry.

No need to say sorry mate .

If anything like that happened to any of my loved ones , I would happily do the same .

An eye for an eye and all that .

Despite there being no evidence to support the use of the death penalty reducing heinous crimes , it would get my vote for child abuse , rape , and murder .

So what if it isn't gonna reduce the amount of people committing these crimes ? It would save a shitload of money spent keeping the scum alive .

"

Is it really cheaper to kill someone than to keep them alive? Appeals and death row are very expensive.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Thanks Courtney that 12 angry men was really interesting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would gladly look down at the man who murdered my brother as he died and I'd smile. There is no forgiveness in me for him...sorry.

No need to say sorry mate .

If anything like that happened to any of my loved ones , I would happily do the same .

An eye for an eye and all that .

Despite there being no evidence to support the use of the death penalty reducing heinous crimes , it would get my vote for child abuse , rape , and murder .

So what if it isn't gonna reduce the amount of people committing these crimes ? It would save a shitload of money spent keeping the scum alive .

"

It was just a token sorry

Yeah...the guy had zero qualms about knowingly and deliberately taking life so i have zero respect for his right to live basically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thanks Courtney that 12 angry men was really interesting "

I'm glad you liked it.

It's one of my favorite movies.

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