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Catholic Confessional

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So is it right to allow Priests the immunity of not reporting crimes admitted too them in a confessional box .....

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I supose it would depend on the crime

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

doesn't depend on anything...a confessional,and anything confessed there,is regarded as sacrosanct in the catholic faith

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

But surely a Priest accepting confession for a sex crime becomes partially culpable for any future crime of similar nature committed by someone admitting they harbour desires that might lead to reoffending,,

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Revealing any part of a confessional leads to automatic excommunication. I can understand the logic as sinners would be afraid of confessing otherwise. Do I agree with it? No.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"doesn't depend on anything...a confessional,and anything confessed there,is regarded as sacrosanct in the catholic faith"

Faith should not supercede law. It is a backwards attitude and needs sorting 100%, or Catholicism will continue to be seen as a religion that condones the sexual abuse and rape of children.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances "

It should be in the priest's human spirit to turn the abuser in to the authorities. And no, that doesn't mean the church's Bishop either, who will no doubt cover it up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes"

The same rules apply to your solicitor/barrister in any criminal case. They are sworn to a vow of confidence.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Some very cynical _iews by people who seem to be basing their _iews on the subject on daily mail type stories. A lot of the abuse stories concerning the Catholic Church are historical from many years ago but just coming to the fore. Most of the current stories on child abuse have been committed in evangelical churches. I would guess that statistically the numbers are far higher in non Catholic Churches these days.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Some very cynical _iews by people who seem to be basing their _iews on the subject on daily mail type stories. A lot of the abuse stories concerning the Catholic Church are historical from many years ago but just coming to the fore. Most of the current stories on child abuse have been committed in evangelical churches. I would guess that statistically the numbers are far higher in non Catholic Churches these days. "

But any abuse is unacceptable...

So surely everyone regardless of religion should do everything possible to prevent it and prevent it being covered up...

We can't allow excuses to become reasons...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes

The same rules apply to your solicitor/barrister in any criminal case. They are sworn to a vow of confidence."

That is not quite true. There are circumstances in which a solicitor is obliged to notify the authorities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances "

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so. "
exactly what I was trying to say

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so. "

Without doubt that is possibility ......

But surely we are all responsible for our actions and inaction and where a crime has been admitted during confession but then remain unreported we are allowing vulnerable people to remain at risk and that by any measure is unacceptable......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's acceptable for criminals to "not grass" other lawyers to look for technicalities to get their client off when it's blatantly obvious they're guilty then it appears so !

Not saying I agree...just throwing it in there !

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" If it's acceptable for criminals to "not grass" other lawyers to look for technicalities to get their client off when it's blatantly obvious they're guilty then it appears so !

Not saying I agree...just throwing it in there ! "

I'm un-persuaded by any code of morality that allows the perpetrator of self confessed child abuse to remain at liberty under the advice and expectation that they will turn themselves in.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so.

Without doubt that is possibility ......

But surely we are all responsible for our actions and inaction and where a crime has been admitted during confession but then remain unreported we are allowing vulnerable people to remain at risk and that by any measure is unacceptable...... "

I don't think I personally could do it. But for all the reasons I've said, that's why it is the way it is. And I think if what you were talking about was just any old someone telling any old someone, I'd agree. But the whole point is that if someone is bothering to go to confession, it's because they really believe in it, otherwise they wouldn't bother. And therefore absolution IS a powerful tool to be able to use to get them to confess to the authorities, because they have that belief in its power.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so.

Without doubt that is possibility ......

But surely we are all responsible for our actions and inaction and where a crime has been admitted during confession but then remain unreported we are allowing vulnerable people to remain at risk and that by any measure is unacceptable......

I don't think I personally could do it. But for all the reasons I've said, that's why it is the way it is. And I think if what you were talking about was just any old someone telling any old someone, I'd agree. But the whole point is that if someone is bothering to go to confession, it's because they really believe in it, otherwise they wouldn't bother. And therefore absolution IS a powerful tool to be able to use to get them to confess to the authorities, because they have that belief in its power."

But surely the abuser has proven themselves to display a selectively flexible interpretation of right and wrong which devalues and undermines the credibility of their belief system.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so.

Without doubt that is possibility ......

But surely we are all responsible for our actions and inaction and where a crime has been admitted during confession but then remain unreported we are allowing vulnerable people to remain at risk and that by any measure is unacceptable......

I don't think I personally could do it. But for all the reasons I've said, that's why it is the way it is. And I think if what you were talking about was just any old someone telling any old someone, I'd agree. But the whole point is that if someone is bothering to go to confession, it's because they really believe in it, otherwise they wouldn't bother. And therefore absolution IS a powerful tool to be able to use to get them to confess to the authorities, because they have that belief in its power.

But surely the abuser has proven themselves to display a selectively flexible interpretation of right and wrong which devalues and undermines the credibility of their belief system..... "

I'm not suggesting they're a "good" Catholic. But the fact they're bothering to seek absolution means they must truly believe in that particular aspect of their faith, otherwise why would they bother going to confession? No adult goes to confession unless they actually believe in it. So the counsel they're given does have some power over them.

As soon as that priest broke the sanctity of the confessional, no one would ever confess anything of significance to them again. Potentially it could be doing more harm in the long run.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Religion and law are two different things, I am sure several unfortunate criminals have found out in the past. They may have absolved themselves in the eyes of God, but the long arm of the law still got them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a shame they don't have the faith before the act...its always after the so called sin...by going to confession,somehow makes it ok

This why I can't take most religions seriously.They know it's a sin,but carry on regardless. What's the point.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It is the priests duty to keep the confession secret but to persuade the confessor to turn themselves in. It must be a a great burden in those circumstances

If someone has gone to confession, it's because they want absolution. In the case of a serious crime, they won't be granted absolution - the priest will persuade them to go to the authorities themselves before that could be given.

What do people really think breaking the sanctity of the confessional would achieve? All that would happen is those individuals, knowing they will be reported, won't confess. So they won't receive the counsel from the priest to turn themselves in and may be ultimately less likely to do so.

Without doubt that is possibility ......

But surely we are all responsible for our actions and inaction and where a crime has been admitted during confession but then remain unreported we are allowing vulnerable people to remain at risk and that by any measure is unacceptable......

I don't think I personally could do it. But for all the reasons I've said, that's why it is the way it is. And I think if what you were talking about was just any old someone telling any old someone, I'd agree. But the whole point is that if someone is bothering to go to confession, it's because they really believe in it, otherwise they wouldn't bother. And therefore absolution IS a powerful tool to be able to use to get them to confess to the authorities, because they have that belief in its power.

But surely the abuser has proven themselves to display a selectively flexible interpretation of right and wrong which devalues and undermines the credibility of their belief system.....

I'm not suggesting they're a "good" Catholic. But the fact they're bothering to seek absolution means they must truly believe in that particular aspect of their faith, otherwise why would they bother going to confession? No adult goes to confession unless they actually believe in it. So the counsel they're given does have some power over them.

As soon as that priest broke the sanctity of the confessional, no one would ever confess anything of significance to them again. Potentially it could be doing more harm in the long run. "

I agree it could have a negative impact ....... but for me it not about protecting the workings of catholic faith...... for me its about gaining justice and restitution for those who have been abused and about preventing future abuse,,,

At the moment a system exists where we are allowing untrustworthy people to be self governing in a way that grants them primacy over members of society that don't subscribe to their particular brand of religious leanings,,,

Meanwhile vulnerable children remain at risk...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" If it's acceptable for criminals to "not grass" other lawyers to look for technicalities to get their client off when it's blatantly obvious they're guilty then it appears so !

Not saying I agree...just throwing it in there !

I'm un-persuaded by any code of morality that allows the perpetrator of self confessed child abuse to remain at liberty under the advice and expectation that they will turn themselves in..... "

True Soxy. ..but the original post didn't state specific crimes...the one you mentioned is obviously abhorrent.

Juxtaposition moment here....

Such a criminal would never confess if they knew a priest would report them.

Also a priest may manage to cause them to repent and cease such behaviour via counselling and therapy? And yes I'm fully aware there's still a victim involved....just looking at this objectively.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" If it's acceptable for criminals to "not grass" other lawyers to look for technicalities to get their client off when it's blatantly obvious they're guilty then it appears so !

Not saying I agree...just throwing it in there !

I'm un-persuaded by any code of morality that allows the perpetrator of self confessed child abuse to remain at liberty under the advice and expectation that they will turn themselves in.....

True Soxy. ..but the original post didn't state specific crimes...the one you mentioned is obviously abhorrent.

Juxtaposition moment here....

Such a criminal would never confess if they knew a priest would report them.

Also a priest may manage to cause them to repent and cease such behaviour via counselling and therapy? And yes I'm fully aware there's still a victim involved....just looking at this objectively. "

Yes I fully understand its not a black and white scenario where a blanket solution can cure all aspects of wrongdoing ,,,,,

But the onus should be on closing loopholes that allow victims to remain without justice and protect criminals allowing them to remain at large presenting a further risk......

Surely we shouldn't be tolerant of a practice that gives president to criminals rather than victims...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No we shouldn't. ..but the criminal justice system needs to evolve. One size doesn't fit all and rehabilitation is as important as the detection.

If we simply choose the head off a it reappears. ..if we dig deeper and find the root problem we can find it.

But I digress off your post. Maybe certain crimes should be made compulsory to report? Though I doubt that will see any increase in victim resolution as people won't go to confession?

I think I'll try the kiss fuck avoid thread...it may be an easier subject to conclude

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London


"So is it right to allow Priests the immunity of not reporting crimes admitted too them in a confessional box ..... "

Yes. People wouldn't confide in the priest otherwise. A change would also risk criminalisation of priests.

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