FabSwingers.com forum: NHS - under too much pressure? Your thoughts and experiences?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just watching the BBC news article about the NHS and findings that over past 4 years - 400 people had the wrong body part operated on, one patient had a testicle instead of a cyst removed.

Earlier this week, I ended up in A & E in the early hours of the morning - due to recent changes - the smaller hospitals here don't take admissions at night. I ended up with 4 others queuing in a corridor in the cold. Two of the patients were really elderly. There were no free cubicles.

Talking to the staff - that was a quietisg night. It wasn't unusual. I'm all ok now and have to say from the ambulance to the nurses and doctors - everyone was brilliant.

But .... The service just isn't sustainable. Should we pay more? Pay insurance like in the USA if we can? Or should the government pay more in?

I have always been proud of our NHS service, but it's buckling under the pressure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree, but I think a lot of the problems stem from moronic people who clog up A&E with minor issues that their GP could help with, or go to the GP for things the pharmacy could help with.

Currently, within our family we have 2 medical issues ongoing that require the hospital; 1 involving a serious heart problem and the other an elderly relative who had a major fracture. Both of these have received outstanding care from our local NHS hospital.

I have zero tolerance for people who complain if the have to wait 30 minutes past their appointment. I've waited longer for a private consultation for which I paid over £1000.......

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By *litheroevoyeurMan
over a year ago

Clitheroe

A quick Google reveals 28 million people in work in the UK. An extra £1 contribution each per week would surely make a difference if it were all channelled towards the NHS.

My recent experiences include two short stays in hospital for operations and my treatment could not have been better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's the standard privatisation technique: defund, make sure things don't work properly, people get angry, hand it over to private capital"

Naom Chomsky.

This is exactly what is happening right under our very noses. Note the exponential rise in anti-NHS propaganda in the media of late.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

""It's the standard privatisation technique: defund, make sure things don't work properly, people get angry, hand it over to private capital"

Naom Chomsky.

This is exactly what is happening right under our very noses. Note the exponential rise in anti-NHS propaganda in the media of late.

I do think there is an element of this going on.

Sarah

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

We were spending 8% of GDP on healthcare, government plans will reduce that to 7% by 2020 (official plans we'll see what they actually do)

France and Germany spend over 11% - that's equivalent to tens of billions more than we do

Now when people say it's sustainable what they should be saying is it's not sustainable at the current levels of spending - other countries manage to fund their Heath service and so should we

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am so proud of our NHS and wad proud to work within it.

There are definite issues with A and E's being full of people who don't need it. The hospital I worked in had a gp walk in attached to emergency department. Everyone was triaged and then either sent to the gp side or the A&E side.

However, staff within the NHS are overworked and underpaid and it means morale is often low..If it was any other job you would leave but luckily these people love what they do and want to provide top quality care.

The government definitely needs to get their priorities sorted out and put more funding into where it's needed most instead of spending a fortune on things such as changing paperwork every month and redecorating areas that don't need it!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm American so you can take my experience in that light...

I had to go to the hospital recently for an operation. It was a small operation but it was an emergency. From start to finish my experience was amazing. The people were nice, the wait times were reasonable, and the operation was a perfect success. Compared to the American system, it was 100% better.

However, my experiences at the GP have been a joke. They rush you in, don't really know anything about you, and then rush you out. I once got asked "do you have anymore questions because your 10 minutes is up?" From my experience at the GP I can understand why the hospitals are full. I would take an American GP in a heartbeat.

I think they should just up the taxes a bit (and before anyone says anything, both me and my husband have jobs and pay taxes), and have a management overhaul. Don't go with the American system. Trust me. It is hideous if you don't have insurance and I don't think anyone in this country used to the NHS would like it.

That's my experience in any case.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on"
so we have a person visiting this country from abroad with a not fixable contagious disease now because they don't have a uk passport you want them to "jog on " without treatment good way to manage a disease ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on"

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on"

Don't non EU citizens pay? For some reason I thought they did ?

And that wouldn't have made any difference to my A & E experience. They've just gone too far on economies of scale where I live and probably other places. They need to be realistic. I can feel a letter to my MP coming on - although it won't help in the slightest.

Sarah

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By *9bottMan
over a year ago

chester

What about hard working non passport holders and their families contributing to the system on a daily basis?....that's a big number of NHS staff itself

What about ppl who can't be arsed lifting even one finger to go to work and contribute ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on"

Would you expect health care if you had an accident abroad on holiday?

I wonder how hospitals in Spain cope treating elderly Brits who've never learnt the language when they retired there? Or the hospitals in Ibiza and Magaluf full of d*unken British twats? As ever I guess when it's the British abroad it's different?

And presumably you'd tell the countless immigrant hospital staff to 'jog on' rather than have them treat you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""It's the standard privatisation technique: defund, make sure things don't work properly, people get angry, hand it over to private capital"

Naom Chomsky.

This is exactly what is happening right under our very noses. Note the exponential rise in anti-NHS propaganda in the media of late.

And don't forget demonising those greedy money grabbing lazy junior doctors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am so proud of our NHS and wad proud to work within it.

is bang on lovely

fooking moaners do my bonce in

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Our dear government need to close tax loopholes, collect the tax owed by tax avoiders, stop giving themselves 10% and 11% pay rises and billing for massive expenses claims and invest in a decent budget for the NHS, schools etc.

Problem solved.

They won't because they want the NHS to fail so they can say it's clearly not working as it is and should be privatised.

That's definitely going to provide a better service when most of the money is going to external contractors and huge payouts for execs and shareholders. It worked so well for the rail network and it's improving the Royal Mail beyond measure

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

for all those that cant see whats going on with the NHS go back look at the railways . system starved of funding constantly critisised told its not fit for purpose etc so it was sold off to the uber efficient "private sector " you know the rest

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Let's not get to bogged down with the immigrant issues. Could someone from inside the system answer this question.

Are you now bogged down with excessive paperwork logging every minute detail in order to protect you from the ambulance chasing parasites from the no win no fee sector?

This section of society is costing us all a fortune in increased insurance premiums and was one of our worst imports from America.

Any thoughts?

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

I've just taken early retirement from the NHS, if I had stayed, I would have killed or been killed such are the conditions. The lack of planning and the measure of success is as far away from clients as it could possibly be.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I've just taken early retirement from the NHS, if I had stayed, I would have killed or been killed such are the conditions. The lack of planning and the measure of success is as far away from clients as it could possibly be. "

I hope you enjoy being retired. I admire all those that work so hard in often difficult conditions.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The system is buckling for a variety of reasons.

The level of investment has remained static as demand has increased and now profits are being siphoned off by companies involved in PFI deals. That money should stay within the NHS, not going to shareholders and fat cats.

The public don't always use the NHS responsibly. The four hour limit in A&E is absurd for those who use it like a walk in GP. If your problem isn't an 'accident' or an 'emergency' you should wait longer.

Scapegoating immigrants is not helpful. They are mostly all young and employed and thus are net contributors to the NHS through their taxes. That and the fact that non-EU non-residents will pay extra for treatment already (GOSH made £20m in 2014 alone from private foreign patients).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been trying ring them for 5 hours,no answer.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Been trying ring them for 5 hours,no answer.

Do you mean the 111 service ? They are usually pretty quick at answering.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think it's a postcode lottery with GPs though - in some areas you can't get appointments for ages.

Is that an absolute limit ? Or just what they think the maximum time should generally be. Maybe more A & E's should be split into minor and a major injuries and you wait possibly longer in the minor ones. Although splitting it may make it quicker overall.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Medicines wastage on prescription is staggering, if the NHS clawed back the waste in the services it provides it'd save loads

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

Went to rheumatoid clinic at Blackpool vic first appointment at 8-30 running 2 hour,s late Consultant had not turned up 6 on reception in the grey area only one working rest on there phones yes very much under in some areas but not this one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Medicines wastage on prescription is staggering, if the NHS clawed back the waste in the services it provides it'd save loads "

Or, as appears to be a recurring theme if people used the NHS responsibly it would save loads

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's a postcode lottery with GPs though - in some areas you can't get appointments for ages.

Sarah "

A lot of trusts are doing that, having a minor injuries clinic in one hospital and an emergency department in another. The rebranding of A&E to ED is also a good thing.

Last winter, West Herts NHS Trust punlished what people had attended A&E for on one of their busiest days, it included countless attendees with colds and other things such as ingrown toenails. While there is a need to educate people as to what they should attend with there is also a need to improve the services GP surgeries and NHS wlak in cenmtres provide

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Medicines wastage on prescription is staggering, if the NHS clawed back the waste in the services it provides it'd save loads "

Do you mean people ordering things they don't need ? Or being over prescribed ?

When I lost a relative to cancer - there were unopened prescribed medicines which we returned to the pharmacy but I understand it has to be destroyed as it has been dispensed to that person. I guess you can't prove it hasn't been tampered with. It felt like such a waste, but I think that's something that can't be changed.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's a postcode lottery with GPs though - in some areas you can't get appointments for ages.

Sarah "

GP services are where the NHS is most underfunded. They provide 90% of NHS care for just 10% of the total budget. We need massive investment in GP services to make them more accessible and effective.

The four hour limit applies to everyone who comes into A&E, regardless of why they're there. It puts massive pressure on staff and incentivises people to attend A&E with minor problems. I agree, the four hour limit should apply only to those attending for emergency care.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree, but I think a lot of the problems stem from moronic people who clog up A&E with minor issues that their GP could help with, or go to the GP for things the pharmacy could help with.

I have zero tolerance for people who complain if the have to wait 30 minutes past their appointment. I've waited longer for a private consultation for which I paid over £1000.......

Based on my own experience and the _iews of the doctors, nurses and hospital administrators I know I think there is a combination of this (idiots, morons, no common sense etc.) and elderly people with complex care needs who aren't able to be discharged until the social care is in place - which often takes a long time because that system is pretty much at breaking point. Those are the two biggest challenges in my _iew.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's a postcode lottery with GPs though - in some areas you can't get appointments for ages.

Sarah

GP services are where the NHS is most underfunded. They provide 90% of NHS care for just 10% of the total budget. We need massive investment in GP services to make them more accessible and effective.

Completely agree about the 4 hour limit. If someone rocks up with spurious complaint or something that they should just have seen their GP about then if they knew they were going to have to wait 6, maybe 8 hours it might discourage them. And free up time in the system to see more serious cases in a quicker time frame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its only going to get worse now Cameron has decided NHS no longer gets free training, loads of want to be nurses wont be able to pay the fees so they will be even shortet staffed

watch this space .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We were spending 8% of GDP on healthcare, government plans will reduce that to 7% by 2020 (official plans we'll see what they actually do)

France and Germany spend over 11% - that's equivalent to tens of billions more than we do

Now when people say it's sustainable what they should be saying is it's not sustainable at the current levels of spending - other countries manage to fund their Heath service and so should we "

Well Americans spend even more than the French. They don't get better care though! It's not all about how much money you throw at the problem. As someone already said, tell the idiots going to A&E with the sniffles to fuck off, get some proper IT systems and stop using so much temporary labour and thay would be a good start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"its only going to get worse now Cameron has decided NHS no longer gets free training, loads of want to be nurses wont be able to pay the fees so they will be even shortet staffed

watch this space ....."

Clever move by the tories, if they fail to privitise it this time round leave a nice ticking time bomb to create a manpower issue for the future

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?"

so you paid a small contribution to use the nhs/ well done.

So now you can have treatment here , free, which would be very expensive elsewhere .

You pay taxes? Duh, everyone on planet pays taxes of some sort - direct or indirect taxes- so what's your point?

Were you or your family brought up here ?

Have you or your family paid taxes over a working lifetime to pay for this service the parasites turn up and use for free?

Or you just some Johnny come lately expecting free treatment cos you paid a few quid up front?

What if you produce brats - ya gonna do that in a field ?

Dentist ?

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate

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By *ammyDodgaMan
over a year ago

Nottingham/and everywhere my location says i am ;)

Of course it is, this shower and Europe want the NHS privatised. So how do you do that, you cripple it.

And the reason they want it privatised us because it's the biggest profit earning non taxable company in our country, and why?

Because it belongs to us, if its in private hands imagine the revenue 300+ million genetates in taxes for the arse wipes in power, same arse wipes who are on most private health boards directors.. Hmmmm

Take sraffordshire health loosing Two days ago to a private consortium the rights to screen for cancer. Even though their bid was 70million cheaper.. Tory mp sat on the board of directors for the consortium..

We are all being blinded by insignicant crap in social media to see the real scandals occurring.

Any how, rant over, soap box away and whistles as the g-men follow me for seditious wtitings

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog onso we have a person visiting this country from abroad with a not fixable contagious disease now because they don't have a uk passport you want them to "jog on " without treatment good way to manage a disease ? "

And when did this last happen?

Come on- up your game a bit of you want serious discussion.

Less of the 6th form hyperbolic disaster scenarios. That may happen once a century, if that? Actually can't think of it eve happening.

Yeah let's build the nhs model on something that has never happened and probably never will .

Just like our nuke industry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?

so you paid a small contribution to use the nhs/ well done.

So now you can have treatment here , free, which would be very expensive elsewhere .

You pay taxes? Duh, everyone on planet pays taxes of some sort - direct or indirect taxes- so what's your point?

Were you or your family brought up here ?

Have you or your family paid taxes over a working lifetime to pay for this service the parasites turn up and use for free?

Or you just some Johnny come lately expecting free treatment cos you paid a few quid up front?

What if you produce brats - ya gonna do that in a field ?

Dentist ?

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate "

Do you ask to see the passport of a doctor or nurse treating you? If you needed a blood transfusion would you ask the origins of who donated it?

Or is that different?

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By *homasP80Man
over a year ago

Linwood

The NHS is under a lot of strain, government wanting/talking about cuts, em, NO, bloody typical government.

I feel really sorry for nurses/doctors etc who try there best under "CUTS"...Any job suffers due to lack of staff, through no fault of the workers - (nurses/doctors) but due to it's management - (government).

I'd rather government put more in and added tax to cigarettes/Fags even booze/drink, and I drink quite a lot.

I would happily give more tax (i'd hope most people would agree) from my pay to see the NHS survive/improve.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?

so you paid a small contribution to use the nhs/ well done.

So now you can have treatment here , free, which would be very expensive elsewhere .

You pay taxes? Duh, everyone on planet pays taxes of some sort - direct or indirect taxes- so what's your point?

Were you or your family brought up here ?

Have you or your family paid taxes over a working lifetime to pay for this service the parasites turn up and use for free?

Or you just some Johnny come lately expecting free treatment cos you paid a few quid up front?

What if you produce brats - ya gonna do that in a field ?

Dentist ?

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate "

OK, mate. If that is how you see it. I can't argue sense with small minded people. I don't have children and if I did they wouldn't be entitled to stay here, and neither would I, because of my visa.

I have not been brought up here, duh as you put it. So I can only put in for when I am here. And I do. I can't get benefits either, even though I still pay the same in taxes as those who do get benefits. And that is fine with me because I work and would never want benefits.

But if what you are looking for is a quid pro quo system, then don't take my money for benefits I can't get, don't take my money for health insurance and I'll just go private same as in the US. But that isn't how it works because it would be a net loss on non-EU immigrants like me. The people the UK loses money on are EU-immigrants, not non-EU immigrants. Do the research if you want.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's interesting to me that most people are blaming the Tories (its all a conspiracy) and slightly less blaming irritating users.

At what point do people start admitting that its badly managed. Managed being the key word, i have a tonne of respect for the nurses and doctors, who frankly perform miracles with their resources. But the management are fucking useless. I've never seen so much paper as when I go into a hospital, it's like they've never heard of IT systems. Don't know what I mean - look up NPfIT which was a complete clusterfuck attempt to modernise the IT there. Yes the prime contractor CSC messed some things up but actually a bigger part of the problem were the tribal management who couldn't agree on or specify anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?

so you paid a small contribution to use the nhs/ well done.

So now you can have treatment here , free, which would be very expensive elsewhere .

You pay taxes? Duh, everyone on planet pays taxes of some sort - direct or indirect taxes- so what's your point?

Were you or your family brought up here ?

Have you or your family paid taxes over a working lifetime to pay for this service the parasites turn up and use for free?

Or you just some Johnny come lately expecting free treatment cos you paid a few quid up front?

What if you produce brats - ya gonna do that in a field ?

Dentist ?

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate

OK, mate. If that is how you see it. I can't argue sense with small minded people. I don't have children and if I did they wouldn't be entitled to stay here, and neither would I, because of my visa.

-Courtney"

Just so you know Courtney, you didn't need to dignify that with a response.

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

What pisses me off id health insurance to go on holiday when they pay nothing here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate "

I had a premature baby - so the patient hadn't paid anything in taxes to the system but cost 1000's to treat. Luckily that baby is now a teenager and will hopefully go on to contribute taxes etc, but I'm not sure it will ever be as much as the cost at birth to the NHS.

Sarah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS is a crap service for those who actually pay for it, wonderful for those that don't. For those who have received in-hospital treatment - were their more than two beds in your ward, was it cleaned to correct standards, were your meds/drips etc set up properly and in time, and did you ever see a senior doctor at the weekend? If you can answer yes to all these questions, congratulations - you're a rarity these days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just so you know Courtney, you didn't need to dignify that with a response. "

But its kinda fun to see how vitriolic some people get

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The NHS is a crap service for those who actually pay for it, wonderful for those that don't. "

Isn't that the nature of any universal system? Don't even get me started on state schools...

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By *litheroevoyeurMan
over a year ago

Clitheroe

"The NHS is a crap service for those who actually pay for it, wonderful for those that don't. For those who have received in-hospital treatment - were their more than two beds in your ward, was it cleaned to correct standards, were your meds/drips etc set up properly and in time, and did you ever see a senior doctor at the weekend? If you can answer yes to all these questions, congratulations - you're a rarity these days."

On both my recent stays I was in a spotlessly clean room with one bed, I saw consultants on both occasions, granted it wasn't weekend. The food was really good and the care was second to none. In my experience it was a million miles from a crap service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i work for the NHS and i still have private health care for me and my kids

18 years my daugher was in a waiting list to have a operation on her legs in the end i got private insurance and paid for it and have stayed with them ever since

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By *ildt123Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

We are second lowest spenders on health in Europe as a % of GDP. But have some of the best outcomes.

Incidentally USA has the highest spend with the lowest outcome return.

Properly fund and staff GP's that will take the strain off a&e

Wouldn't object to a £10 fee to go to a&e which you get back if it was an appropriate self referral but how you work that with those that don't happen to have £10 I don't know.

Free for all at the point of entry is still imho achievable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good for you, I nearly died from misdiagnosis of a common condition and I have a close friend who is permanently in a wheel chair because of misdiagnosis of a rare condition. Neither of us have even seen a hint of remorse or compensation, which is what you get with a monopoly supplier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cannot get an appointment with my GP, will only book up to a week in advance and is always fully booked for full week by 0805, am told I need to phone on the day at 0800 and hope for a cancellation. Have pointed out that I leave for work at 0630, over a two hour drive away, and not back until around 8pm..... They tell me that's not their problem so have been battling through some ill health now for some weeks and understanding why people dump themselves on A and E.

That said however, my dear old mother is going through a rough patch just now and the care she is receiving where she is has been remarkable.

Must just be the lick of the draw

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By *irtyandfilthy2014Couple
over a year ago

under the apple tree

Mrs here. Just going off recent personal experience. A two hour wait for an ambulance to arrive for someone displaying heart attack symptoms is unacceptable(they passed away when they eventually got to a+e). Definitely a sign of a service stretched beyond its limits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Been trying ring them for 5 hours,no answer.

Do you mean the 111 service ? They are usually pretty quick at answering."
no Bristol eye hospital sorry

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Not had a bad experience ever. I also own my health and attend appointments, cancel and rearrange if they don't suit, take my medication and generally, act like an adult.

I don't need others to guide me to take action in a timely manner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some pharmacutical company was fined a very small sum for ripping off the nhs, giving foreigners nat ins numbers so they can go home and have their costs charged to the nhs, contract staff with exorbitant fees.. (btw I'm am ex nurse, worked in a&e and on wards) Managers with big salaries introduced in the thatcher years. It would be cheaper if all these holes were plugged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *im himCouple (MM)
over a year ago

bedworth

Call me cinicale , run the nhs into the ground then tell us on the bbc that it's all going tits up and before you know it we will all have to pay health insurance as its been privatised to there mates in the city and else where . Then all if a sudden it's making millions ! Sound familiar ? We are already starting to take this root by the back door if you ask me .

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

The NHS has been starved of cash by the coalition and Tory governments of recent years. It is no surprise that it is buckling, at a point where it didn't actually need just flat level investment but increases to it.

The government is disingenuous when it states that the NHS is safe in its hands - far from it. And the media have stepped in to stick the knife into the NHS too, where caustic headlines bash the NHS at every opportunity. We are probably only discussing this here today largely because the media has stirred up calamitous disaster scenarios, a health system armageddon. The Conservatives have willingly used much of the same language. This fear mongering by using propaganda to stoke fear would likely be something Goebbels would be proud of.

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

It's only going to get worse in terms of GP access, the reforms of pensions etc mean that if a GP keeps on working past their mid 50s the government hit them with massive tax bills - so guess what - they retire early and stop seeing patients at all or come back as a locum on top rates

Another great reform that's really helped the country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The NHS has been starved of cash by the coalition and Tory governments of recent years. It is no surprise that it is buckling, at a point where it didn't actually need just flat level investment but increases to it.

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services."

The NPfIT clusterfuck happened under Labour actually, there's £20bn the NHS pissed away for "little clinical functionality" in the words of the public accounts committee. That's polite speak for fuck all by the way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""It's the standard privatisation technique: defund, make sure things don't work properly, people get angry, hand it over to private capital"

Naom Chomsky.

This is exactly what is happening right under our very noses. Note the exponential rise in anti-NHS propaganda in the media of late.

i worked in the nhs as a nurse in the thatcher era. New managers were introduced with weird titles, too many non medical managers, plush offices and too many profiteers creaming off money, private sectors creeping in, plus other shameless maniipulation to cream and swindle funds out of the nhs.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The previous Labour government certainly made awful decisions. It's the current government which is the wolf in sheep's clothing, where they're pretending to maintain investment, when it's derisory sums being invested. I'm assuming that you agreed with the rest of that post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Our dear government need to close tax loopholes, collect the tax owed by tax avoiders, stop giving themselves 10% and 11% pay rises and billing for massive expenses claims and invest in a decent budget for the NHS, schools etc.

Problem solved.

They won't because they want the NHS to fail so they can say it's clearly not working as it is and should be privatised.

sell it off to their rich mates at a ridiculous low amount, like the great royal mail swindle. Another institution built and paid for by the tax payer and ripped off by this government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/02/16 20:53:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

I made my thoughts clear earlier but they got ignored because we'd rather blame evil tories or immigrants for what is actually wasteful management. Just because the people on the ground are working hard, doesn't mean they are working smart.

I'm telling you they aren't enabled to work smart because the NHS has long fucked up every IT project it's started. Fundamentally, our local hospital looks like a 1980's museum rather than a modern health care facility.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Been in A&E loads of times, it all depends on what I did on how what I did, to how long it took to get seen. Get knocked off a motorcycle or shot with an airgun, got seen right away. Took some bark off my knees and arm from coming off a bicycle, it took a while to get seen by the nurse.

I have nothing against any of the NHS nurses, they have looked after me on many an occasion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. "
the tories are certainly doing no better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?"

And we have a reciprocal arrangement for health care with many countries! Has no one here ever used an EHIC card?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better."

What a mature response to a serious issue. Where did I indicate I give a flying fuck about the tory party? I'd like people to face up to the real issues and stop the lazy thinking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

What a mature response to a serious issue. Where did I indicate I give a flying fuck about the tory party? I'd like people to face up to the real issues and stop the lazy thinking. "
i didn't indicate your political preference. The nhs needs fixi g. The current government is doing no better, and just making it worse. The nhs was founded on socialistic values and the current government is based on tory values so i doubt they have the interests at heart. The it system is part of it but not the entire reason for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

What a mature response to a serious issue. Where did I indicate I give a flying fuck about the tory party? I'd like people to face up to the real issues and stop the lazy thinking. i didn't indicate your political preference. The nhs needs fixi g. The current government is doing no better, and just making it worse. The nhs was founded on socialistic values and the current government is based on tory values so i doubt they have the interests at heart. The it system is part of it but not the entire reason for it. "

In my experience, people start talking about values when they have no practical solutions to real problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

Good, it don't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice. But the NHS ain't catching any mice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

In my experience, people start talking about values when they have no practical solutions to real problems. "
the solution is remove the private sector elements that take for profit, the excess management, and get back to the core values. Tell me what your answer is. I'm genuinly interested, not having a go at you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find that people who keep quoting the same old Chinese sayings have little to add to the argument

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am so proud of our NHS and wad proud to work within it.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

No amount of money will fix a badly managed organisation.

Our local hospital is lovely and seems well run though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We voted this lot in, so are now living with the knock on effects that this means to our services.

The NHS complaining about lack of funding is like a sieve complaining about a lack of water. the tories are certainly doing no better.

In my experience, people start talking about values when they have no practical solutions to real problems. the solution is remove the private sector elements that take for profit, the excess management, and get back to the core values. Tell me what your answer is. I'm genuinly interested, not having a go at you

Modernise and focus on productivity. You have 8 hours of a nurse or doctors time, how do you maximise what they can reasonably deliver in terms of patient care in those 8 hours?

- you get rid of any paper

- you minimise admin

On top of that you then staff your hospital properly since you know what reasonably productivity looks like which saves on the additional costs from temporary staff. Then combine the NHS purchasing power with suppliers more. If you did all those things, I fail to see why our health system wouldn't be as good as Frances with say a maximum of 15% extra funding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find that people who keep quoting the same old Chinese sayings have little to add to the argument

You obviously don't know your history if you think that's an old saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find that people who keep quoting the same old Chinese sayings have little to add to the argument

You obviously don't know your history if you think that's an old saying "

You obviously don't know your grammar if you think that I said it was

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find that people who keep quoting the same old Chinese sayings have little to add to the argument

You obviously don't know your history if you think that's an old saying

You obviously don't know your grammar if you think that I said it was

Yeah that's true. Anyway, ideology is a poor substitute for results.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I would argue that without a clear ideology, you are unlikely to get the results you desire.

We evidently think very differently about these things, but that's cool

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd love a day when agency staff weren't crazily earning money alongside others earning far less. I appreciate staff issues, contract economies etc, but that is a process that simply isn't the best for utilising money or commissioning. NHS is an amazing organisation overall and staffed by loads of great individuals, but I agree with early posters about heading towards the privatisation and short staffing potential, though there are big plans to combat the short staffing, as far as Guatemala.

Those 'never' events shouldn't have happened, but are still fair percentages apparently according to risk percentages / assessment and other developed health nations, crazy as it sounds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well I would argue that without a clear ideology, you are unlikely to get the results you desire.

We evidently think very differently about these things, but that's cool

Philip Tetlock of Berkeley University has empirically proven that stronger ideology produces inferior predictions and analysis about political events. I'd strongly expect that to lead to inferior performance since you can't really solve problems if you can't identify their route cause.

I quoted Deng Xiaoping because I think he's the most successful politician of the previous century, having kicked off over 40 years of double digit economic growth from what was one of the most ideological countries going. Whereas North Korea clings to its ideology but doesn't do so well...

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By *van ArdenMan
over a year ago

Coleford, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire.

I think the huge problem within the NHS stems from the introduction of local trusts. As soon as they were introduced there was a mushrooming of managerial tiers paying themselves vastly overinflated salaries.

All at the expense of front line staff many of whom lost their jobs and livelihoods.

What truly is criminal is the way this wretched government has pushed ahead with "reforms" that result in increased pressure on the very people on whom we depend. The situation is pure dogma by the Tories. It is their intenton to push the NHS to the point of collapse and in doing so the people of our great nation will have to turn to private medical providers.

By the time of the next election the NHS will be near to collapse but hopefully the electorate will wake up and remove this damaging and damaged government.

My criticism is not aimed at the hardworking staff who work for it as in the past my family has been appreciative of their hard work despite the tremendous pressures that are placed upon them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do you expect/ when millions of people haven't paid into the system - but can turn up and get service .

Should be for uk passport holders , and family , only.

Show your passport at the door , or jog on

I pay taxes and I had to pay a health care surcharge for my visa. But I don't have a UK passport. What about that?

so you paid a small contribution to use the nhs/ well done.

So now you can have treatment here , free, which would be very expensive elsewhere .

You pay taxes? Duh, everyone on planet pays taxes of some sort - direct or indirect taxes- so what's your point?

Were you or your family brought up here ?

Have you or your family paid taxes over a working lifetime to pay for this service the parasites turn up and use for free?

Or you just some Johnny come lately expecting free treatment cos you paid a few quid up front?

What if you produce brats - ya gonna do that in a field ?

Dentist ?

How to put this politely, your little tenner /100 health fee payment will be used up probably first time you use any nhs service . Not such a bad deal mate "

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

you perpetually espouse a capitalist ideology and then claim that you don't buy in to ideology .... who do you think you are fooling by this? just admit that you prefer that ideology above any of the other which are available

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Oh yeah I admit that, it's better than the others but I don't have any kind of boner for it that blinds me to the obvious abuses. It could definately be improved, but I want improvement within the system, not a new system. I'd compliment communism if it had any economic achievements for me to compliment.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

it doesn't matter how you feel about other isms .... the first step to combating being an idealist is to admit to yourself that you are one .... well done, we've made real progress in todays intervention.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"it doesn't matter how you feel about other isms .... the first step to combating being an idealist is to admit to yourself that you are one .... well done, we've made real progress in todays intervention.

Idealist?! I'd sell capitalism on a street corner for double digit economic growth for 40 years... and throw in my grandma for good measure

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"Just watching the BBC news article about the NHS and findings that over past 4 years - 400 people had the wrong body part operated on, one patient had a testicle instead of a cyst removed.

Talking to the staff - that was a quietisg night. It wasn't unusual. I'm all ok now and have to say from the ambulance to the nurses and doctors - everyone was brilliant.

But .... The service just isn't sustainable. Should we pay more? Pay insurance like in the USA if we can? Or should the government pay more in?

I have always been proud of our NHS service, but it's buckling under the pressure.

It's mismanagement and being used a political football by successive cabinets . the cons probably want to undermine and eviscerate it as much as possible to push people toward a private provider run by one of their sleazy chums.

The NHS needs to be firewalled from clumbsy political meddling. Also, healthcare provided to foreign nationals should not be free. Healthcare tourism costs the NHS millions per year. If a foreign national does not have private insurance to cover care whilst here.. They should be provided basic stabilising care and sent to their country of origin.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah I have waited a couple of hours past an appointment but when I have been seen I can't fault the doctors and nurses and other staff. Also if you are ever unfortunate enough to have to make a visit to Alder Hey (or any other children's hospital, I would imagine) the amount of care and compassion shown is astoundingly good. I think those people are one of the most amazing you could ever hope to meet!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To many cheifs,(getting bonuses) not enough Indians.

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

spending isn't the only answer, but it is part of the answer

we can't pretend that France and Germany, who both spend 10s of billions of pounds, every single year, more than we do, do that because they are very wasteful, they spend it because money does talk in healthcare

we need to realise that PFI, under labour and continuing under the tories, is sucking money out unnecessarily

we also need to realise cutting the social care budget, in the name of deficit reduction, actually does none of the sort and costs more out of the NHS budget than it saves from the social care budget

that's just a small fraction of what we need to realise!

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By *ormalguy71Man
over a year ago

Tunbridge Wells

It astounds me that GPs as well as A&E do not have dedicated mental health workers, currently my local hospital if someone is admitted with suicidal thoughts at night they are stuck on a chair in a corridor in A&E. They are then told a crisis team member will see you, can be as long as a 12 hour wait. Clearly A&E can not deal with this people and I'd imagine it would leave them feeling uncared for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fantastic staff but we are all living too long and high priced technology and drugs that keep us alive arent helping. I booked a test at the gum clinic today and have to wait 3 week's. Please don't have to prove you are a national first though. We are all equal, me being British is an accident of birth. Peace and love fabbers. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fantastic staff but we are all living too long and high priced technology and drugs that keep us alive arent helping. I booked a test at the gum clinic today and have to wait 3 week's. Please don't have to prove you are a national first though. We are all equal, me being British is an accident of birth. Peace and love fabbers. X"

It's not free for all! We pay for it!

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"It astounds me that GPs as well as A&E do not have dedicated mental health workers, currently my local hospital if someone is admitted with suicidal thoughts at night they are stuck on a chair in a corridor in A&E. They are then told a crisis team member will see you, can be as long as a 12 hour wait. Clearly A&E can not deal with this people and I'd imagine it would leave them feeling uncared for. "

A&E in the royal Victoria hospital Belfast is basically an overspill ward for people with mental health / addiction problems in the evening.

Mental health within the NHS has always been underfunded. Especially not helped by the weight of new patients suffering from drug abuse related mental health conditions currently.

The NHS needs to be run independently of the government.. Like a private enterprise. Firewalled from political agendas.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

It's not free for all! We pay for it!

It's cheaper and more equitable than private health insurance

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By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

A&E in the royal Victoria hospital Belfast is basically an overspill ward for people with mental health / addiction problems in the evening.

Mental health within the NHS has always been underfunded. Especially not helped by the weight of new patients suffering from drug abuse related mental health conditions currently.

The NHS needs to be run independently of the government.. Like a private enterprise. Firewalled from political agendas."

not going to happen though is it

the current government spent £3billion reorganising it, for which no-one can see what for

and the current ministers actually wrote the current junior doctor contract - they cant stop themselves

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Is China Communist??

China is a collective elitist dictatorship(contradiction in terms I know),more akin to animal farm,than any true ideology of communism.

Back to The NHS,they should enlist pound shop buyers.

For Most organisations,the more you buy,the cheaper the goods.

Only the NHS bucks this trend,they pay top dollar for every item.

The NHS doesn't need more money,they need more people who can negotiate the best deals.

Competent purchasing,would vastly reduce overall cost.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Is China Communist??

China is a collective elitist dictatorship(contradiction in terms "

In economic terms it's "state capitalist" just like Russia and not all that far from what Jeremy Corbyn would like, just with a bit more pollution.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Is China Communist??

China is a collective elitist dictatorship(contradiction in terms

In economic terms it's "state capitalist" just like Russia and not all that far from what Jeremy Corbyn would like, just with a bit more pollution. "

And a bit more voting.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

Went into a and e, by ambulance with my lovely mum on Tuesday. When we got there, they were waiting at the door for her. She is 85. They couldn't do enough for her very caring, professional and kind. They worked on her for 8 hours to save her life and she is here to tell the tale! Thank you nhs and the great people who work there! All the staff on her ward are excellent and just want to do their job, to make people feel better and because of them I still have my lovely mum!!

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Is China Communist??

China is a collective elitist dictatorship(contradiction in terms

In economic terms it's "state capitalist" just like Russia and not all that far from what Jeremy Corbyn would like, just with a bit more pollution. "

What is your obsession with China?

You seem to allude to it given any opportunity.

Some sort of propaganda agent?

China isn't a model for anything . Cheap labour, pollution..a doodgy government that steam rolls over and exploits its citizens .

It's a country without mobility or free enterprise. Only wealthy friends of the political elite benefit from such a structure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree, but I think a lot of the problems stem from moronic people who clog up A&E with minor issues that their GP could help with, or go to the GP for things the pharmacy could help with.

I have zero tolerance for people who complain if the have to wait 30 minutes past their appointment. I've waited longer for a private consultation for which I paid over £1000.......

It did baffle me when the strikes were on that the A&E departments were empty.How does that work...obviously alot of people using A&E as doctors appointments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/02/16 02:19:58]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"yeah , because capitalism isn't an ideology

Is China capitalist?

Is China Communist??

China is a collective elitist dictatorship(contradiction in terms

In economic terms it's "state capitalist" just like Russia and not all that far from what Jeremy Corbyn would like, just with a bit more pollution.

What is your obsession with China?

You seem to allude to it given any opportunity.

Some sort of propaganda agent?

China isn't a model for anything . Cheap labour, pollution..a doodgy government that steam rolls over and exploits its citizens .

It's a country without mobility or free enterprise. Only wealthy friends of the political elite benefit from such a structure. "

Clearly you haven't been and your information is flawed. Do you have some aversion to learning from the best bits that other countries have to offer? You think that the UK is so fucking great there's nothing you can learn from anywhere else?

600m people lifted out of poverty by 40 years of double digit growth is a fantastic achievement given where it started from. They also don't take shit from Google or bankers.

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