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Vouchers or cash?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Should unemployment benefit be paid in vouchers rather than cash?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

No

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"No"

Why not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. How demoralizing would that be to people.

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts

How would vouchers work? And are they only available to spend in certain places? What would the aim of the vouchers be?

Personally, I feel belittled enough being on ESA, I don't want to be more put down by having to use vouchers..

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By *hyllyphyllyMan
over a year ago

Bradford

No, I was unemployed and I didn't spend my money on fags and booze. I had bills to pay and a family to feed.

Those benefits porn programmes give the people who are on the dole and looking for a job a bad name.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

No

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, I was unemployed and I didn't spend my money on fags and booze. I had bills to pay and a family to feed.

Those benefits porn programmes give the people who are on the dole and looking for a job a bad name."

Lots of people do spend benifit money on fags and booze though

I'm not saying they should get vouchers, to be honest I really don't care either way how they are paid but if people with kids can afford to smoke and drink does that mean their kids are going without things to fund this?

I hear all the time how you don't get enough to live on so how are they affording to smoke?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

No they shouldn't be paid in vouchers. I don't believe that stigmatising (further) people who claim benefits is the way forward.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

No. I found life on the dole demoralising enough without being dictated as to where and what I could use them on.

Fruit and veg used to be bought from market stalls as I couldn't justify spending what little I had on supermarket prices - and I would assume no market traders would take them.

Plus, you'd then be expecting landlords to accept them and I couldn't see it working...

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews."

If I was unemployed managed my money carefully and saved over time to buy a bottle of wine why should I not be allowed to have it?

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By *hyllyphyllyMan
over a year ago

Bradford


"

I hear all the time how you don't get enough to live on so how are they affording to smoke? "

I gave up smoking when I was on the sole. The NHS give you free help to stop. It's a no brainer.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"No

Why not?

"

It would be expensive to admin, it's degrading, it would lead to voucher shop inflation and it's unnecessary. Plus the other reasons the other honest folk on here have given.

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

No I don't.

What about people being able to shop around for food bargains? Buying fresh fruit and veg from local farmer/market, bread from local bakery, clothes from charity shops or Facebook selling sites. I save a lot buying this way (and yes I work) just because people are unemployed doesn't mean they shouldn't get the same chance to do so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I hear all the time how you don't get enough to live on so how are they affording to smoke?

I gave up smoking when I was on the sole. The NHS give you free help to stop. It's a no brainer."

Your one person though I know loads of unemployed people who do smoke

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long

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By *hyllyphyllyMan
over a year ago

Bradford


"I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews.

If I was unemployed managed my money carefully and saved over time to buy a bottle of wine why should I not be allowed to have it?

"

When I started living alone, if I wanted to go out to celebrate a friend's birthday, I had beans on toast 7 days a week for a month.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long "

Try telling that to ex Tata workers and the people working for Bombardier. I don't know what current statistics are but there are more job seekers than there are jobs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long

Try telling that to ex Tata workers and the people working for Bombardier. I don't know what current statistics are but there are more job seekers than there are jobs."

All these bloody foreigners coming into the country and taking our jobs seem to find one no problem

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews.

If I was unemployed managed my money carefully and saved over time to buy a bottle of wine why should I not be allowed to have it?

When I started living alone, if I wanted to go out to celebrate a friend's birthday, I had beans on toast 7 days a week for a month."

We lived through a long period of unemployment with two very small children, we did our best on very little. Fortunately I didn't come across many people who thought we were fag smoking beer swilling scroungers.

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent


"A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long "

Thats not always true. I work but I'm a single parent who doesn't drive with a young child who attends primary school. Live in a very small town with very few job opportunities that are possible for me to fit around school that are local enough for me to still be able to do the school run. I have no one else to rely on and no breakfast or after school clubs either.

Most of the jobs round here are care work in homed requiring nights and weekend work with long shifts or zero hours contracts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long "

Have you ever had to manage..and how would they pay for gas, electric , tv licence etc etc.... And there are not many jobs that fit around families... Add special needs to the equation and it can become nigh on impossible.

Would love to live in your world. Do you actually realise how little people get .....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

There is jobs out there, many people won't take a job they consider "beneath" them though which is part of the problem. Many people won't take a job because they're earning a working wage just for breeding, many people won't take a job because they're lazy and work shy. This would give them the kick up the arse they need

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"There is jobs out there, many people won't take a job they consider "beneath" them though which is part of the problem. Many people won't take a job because they're earning a working wage just for breeding, many people won't take a job because they're lazy and work shy. This would give them the kick up the arse they need "

And on that 21st century enlightened point of view, I'm off to bed. Pray to your gods that you don't become unemployed.

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews."

And what about those who are off work due to disability? Do they get lumped in with the (supposedly this is aimed at people who choose to live on benefits etc.) 'lazy shits' as some people believe people on benefits are?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"There is jobs out there, many people won't take a job they consider "beneath" them though which is part of the problem. Many people won't take a job because they're earning a working wage just for breeding, many people won't take a job because they're lazy and work shy. This would give them the kick up the arse they need

And on that 21st century enlightened point of view, I'm off to bed. Pray to your gods that you don't become unemployed. "

Goodnight

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"There is jobs out there, many people won't take a job they consider "beneath" them though which is part of the problem. Many people won't take a job because they're earning a working wage just for breeding, many people won't take a job because they're lazy and work shy. This would give them the kick up the arse they need "

How do you know this?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There is jobs out there, many people won't take a job they consider "beneath" them though which is part of the problem. Many people won't take a job because they're earning a working wage just for breeding, many people won't take a job because they're lazy and work shy. This would give them the kick up the arse they need "

What utter rubbish. I recently had my job end. It worked around my family. Of the jobs I've applied for only had 6 interviews so far.... Everyone I have so far been told I am either too qualified or that due to my child care and family needs that I wouldn't be suitable despite experience and a damned good cv.

Luckily I don't need to claim unemployment benefit currently but if I did... Vouchers would make an already tough time harder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Vouchers that would be reddemable at tax avoiding multi nationals would greate more poverty and not solve anything unlike spending cash in local stores

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

Well said.

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

Seawitch..most of the time I think you're a bit bonkers in a adorable kind of way and I'd love to have a beer with you sometime but this post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I honestly don't see how vouchers would solve anything anyway

You could easily sell them and buy whatever you wanted with the cash

What would vouchers actually acheive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"I honestly don't see how vouchers would solve anything anyway

You could easily sell them and buy whatever you wanted with the cash

What would vouchers actually acheive"

Making people in shit situations feel even worse about their lives...

Selling vouchers for less than their cash worth just so they can save a bit by shopping around.

CAB sometimes give our pre paid cards that are only available to be used in certain places. It's supposed to help substance abusers who need help with temptation or something like that. Not seen them for a few years though

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

There were milk vouchers for years and they were hard currency in corner shops for fags & booze.

No from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I honestly don't see how vouchers would solve anything anyway

You could easily sell them and buy whatever you wanted with the cash

What would vouchers actually acheive"

Milk tokens used to be sold all the time. Often used to get someone in the local shop swapping the milk tokens for a cash value but much less than the actual value the shop would get in return.

I have watched one of those benefit shows and honestly they must miss out the scrimping and trying to make ends meet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No.

Its a way of segregating people and marking them out as different and make them feel even more like shit.

most people who are on benefits Don't want to be there. Many are there because of health or social issues so why limit them that way? To force them into a job they Don't want or aren't suited to just to see them back on benefits the year after?

How do they pay for anything not from places that accept the vouchers? A bottle of wine or a visit to the pub for a friends birthday or whatever.

If I needed a spare for a car would the local scrapyard take these vouchers? I like charity shops...would they take them?

Sounds very ill thought out an idea.

just out of interest op...you ever claimed benefits?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There were milk vouchers for years and they were hard currency in corner shops for fags & booze.

No from me."

People where I grew up used to sell them for a little less than they were worth in the shop

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible"

It's not hatred, I just wanted some opinions on a discussion I was having and where better than a public forum. Cheers for most of your points and I might be wrong with the voucher idea but there does need to be changes to the welfare system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"No.

Its a way of segregating people and marking them out as different and make them feel even more like shit.

most people who are on benefits Don't want to be there. Many are there because of health or social issues so why limit them that way? To force them into a job they Don't want or aren't suited to just to see them back on benefits the year after?

How do they pay for anything not from places that accept the vouchers? A bottle of wine or a visit to the pub for a friends birthday or whatever.

If I needed a spare for a car would the local scrapyard take these vouchers? I like charity shops...would they take them?

Sounds very ill thought out an idea.

just out of interest op...you ever claimed benefits?

"

Yeah I've been unemployed on a few occasions as I work in the construction industry which we all know isn't the most stable of industries but each time I've been unemployed I've took any job going till such times as I could get back into my trade

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible"

Combine it with the hatred of those who earn more than the average wage and we're left with a bunch of reactionaries who hate everyone who isn't them.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

Some people are given food vouchers these days anyway. From charities etc.

The 'Unemployed' are thought of as a single, constant entity. But in fact the 'Unemployed' is a fluctuating thing.

Most people on an unemployment benefit find work within 13 weeks. A smaller number within 26 weeks and the rest become the Long Term Unemployed.

Most of the LTU are either able to work but unemployable or already working and claiming at the same time.

So by the time the hassle of setting up vouchers was done the people are, in the main, gone anyway.

A voucher system may be more suited to those who are not fit for work AND are mentally unable to cope with cash. But those people are not scroungers, they have problems that need help.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I wonder if a comprise is plausible ?

A fundamental amount paid in currency to maintain dignity and freedom

And a discount principle for life essentials ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No. How demoralizing would that be to people. "

^This

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By *piritsonfabCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

Ahh. .. but a voucher scheme could be set up and administered by a private company and paid handsomely by the taxpayer, putting even more of the money supposedly for the country into the hands of private shareholders. ..

So our government would likely love the idea.

And just maybe the major shareholder of the company awarded the contract would be a relative of the mp in charge of the scheme?

Makes perfect sense

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I wonder if a comprise is plausible ?

A fundamental amount paid in currency to maintain dignity and freedom

And a discount principle for life essentials ?"

How do you propose to administer and fund this in a time when cuts are being made to all essential services?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can someone explain why vouchers are considered neccesary? Do people really believe that they have a right to dictate how people spend their benefits?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No.

Its a way of segregating people and marking them out as different and make them feel even more like shit.

most people who are on benefits Don't want to be there. Many are there because of health or social issues so why limit them that way? To force them into a job they Don't want or aren't suited to just to see them back on benefits the year after?

How do they pay for anything not from places that accept the vouchers? A bottle of wine or a visit to the pub for a friends birthday or whatever.

If I needed a spare for a car would the local scrapyard take these vouchers? I like charity shops...would they take them?

Sounds very ill thought out an idea.

just out of interest op...you ever claimed benefits?

Yeah I've been unemployed on a few occasions as I work in the construction industry which we all know isn't the most stable of industries but each time I've been unemployed I've took any job going till such times as I could get back into my trade "

I work in events and that's the same...but we know we'll have jobs in our chosen industries to go back to...things always swing up.

many people on benefits need a job that's going last them a while. They need to not hate that job or it will be a vicious circle.

i've taken shit jobs i've hated in winter before but I always knew it Wasn't permanent and that makes things easy to deal with. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel right from the start...many don't have that luxury.

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible

It's not hatred, I just wanted some opinions on a discussion I was having and where better than a public forum. Cheers for most of your points and I might be wrong with the voucher idea but there does need to be changes to the welfare system."

I think it's the way that people see the benefit system needs to change. The media portrays benefits in such an awful and mostly untrue way. Most people who live on benefits struggle. A lot. If none benefit claimers stopped looking down on benefit claimers and were more understanding and tried to improve a benefit claimers day rather than have as much respect for them as a piece of shit on their shoe, then maybe the mental health of benefit claimers would improve and then maybe they'd want to/ be more able to work.

Just stop tarring everyone with the same brush.

I'm in a fair amount of debt with family because I had an extra mouth to feed this week, and taxi/ bus fare to hospital appointments isn't easily covered by what little I get by practically begging the government and tax payers and jumping through hoops to continue to get pennies when I'd much rather be working and supporting myself.

I'll swap you for a fortnight. You have my cash and I'll have yours. See how you manage.

Pub with mates? Nah I need gas.

Take my sister bowling? Nah cos I can't afford the tenner bus fare let alone however much a lane costs...

It's not all fun and games you know.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

No it is a really stupid idea would put up costs administrating it for one.

Also people have the right to spend there benefit how they want but if they do not feed there kids then take the kids off them and lock them up people must be responsible even if out of work.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The whole mantra on Universal Credit being paid monthly is that it helps people get used to managing their money and it being much more like the world of work.

Most debt is with those who work. Most bad debt is a result of bad life changes (loss of a job, sudden illness or a death).

A voucher system these days would have to be technologically smart and we know the success rate of government mandated IT solutions.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Cheers everyone for your thoughts on this. I'll stand corrected on my voucher scheme...now I'm off to bed, need to sign on first thing tomorrow lol

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Can someone explain why vouchers are considered neccesary? Do people really believe that they have a right to dictate how people spend their benefits?"

Of course people believe exactly that. Those in receipt of benefit MUST be feckless! The fact that most welfare benefits go to pensioners and those in work seems to be forgotten.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible

It's not hatred, I just wanted some opinions on a discussion I was having and where better than a public forum. Cheers for most of your points and I might be wrong with the voucher idea but there does need to be changes to the welfare system."

Yes there does but it's not as easy as most people think. Stupid comments like oh make them have vouchers instead of money or cut their benefits completely that will teach them to get off their arse and find work.

I worked for DWP from 2006-2013 both in the job centre and the BDC (benefits delivery centre) which is processing and crisis loans etc.

when ESA came in to replace incapacity benefit that was a massive thing to reassess the people who had just been left on sickness benefit for years. They had everyone go for personal capability assessments to see if there was any type of work that they could do despite them having an illness or a disability. They've invested more money in fraud investigation to try and out the people that do abuse the system. People on job seekers allowance have such tough rules, they have to sign on every week and they have to show evidence that they have searched and applied for so many jobs every day, if they don't the benefit is stopped there and then and sanctions applied. There's different rules for DS1500 claimants, they are people who are terminally ill with less than 6 months to live, would you expect those people to have their benefit paid in vouchers as well? There's so many complex cases you simply CAN NOT tar everyone with the same brush. There's more genuine claimants than the sensationalised bull shit they use to make tv programmes or put in the papers.

As for stopping benefits completely to give people the jolt to find work, do you have any idea it is to find work these days? You would be putting people in extreme poverty just to teach them a lesson. The people actively seeking work, the jsa claimers ARE monitored and it is extremely hard for them to take the piss. For income support lone parent they've brought the age down to 4 years old when if used to be 16, meaning that as soon as your child is aged 4 you have to go on job seekers allowance, you are not entitled to claim benefit purely for being a parent.

Threads like these just piss me off cos the people starting them don't have a clue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible

It's not hatred, I just wanted some opinions on a discussion I was having and where better than a public forum. Cheers for most of your points and I might be wrong with the voucher idea but there does need to be changes to the welfare system.

I think it's the way that people see the benefit system needs to change. The media portrays benefits in such an awful and mostly untrue way. Most people who live on benefits struggle. A lot. If none benefit claimers stopped looking down on benefit claimers and were more understanding and tried to improve a benefit claimers day rather than have as much respect for them as a piece of shit on their shoe, then maybe the mental health of benefit claimers would improve and then maybe they'd want to/ be more able to work.

Just stop tarring everyone with the same brush.

I'm in a fair amount of debt with family because I had an extra mouth to feed this week, and taxi/ bus fare to hospital appointments isn't easily covered by what little I get by practically begging the government and tax payers and jumping through hoops to continue to get pennies when I'd much rather be working and supporting myself.

I'll swap you for a fortnight. You have my cash and I'll have yours. See how you manage.

Pub with mates? Nah I need gas.

Take my sister bowling? Nah cos I can't afford the tenner bus fare let alone however much a lane costs...

It's not all fun and games you know. "

I think there are two type of people on benefits

Most use the system for whats its for, to help them out in times of need, keep them going between jobs, anybody can loose their job, any one of us could end up on benifits but some choose to stay there, for some being on benifits is a life style and are more than happy to stay there

That's not what the benifit system is for and I think that's what gets up a lot of people's noses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across.

Sexual liberation these days has little to do with the mindset of the libertarians of the past.

Thre is so much hatred on here at time towards the sick, the poor the vulnerable, it;s horrible

It's not hatred, I just wanted some opinions on a discussion I was having and where better than a public forum. Cheers for most of your points and I might be wrong with the voucher idea but there does need to be changes to the welfare system.

I think it's the way that people see the benefit system needs to change. The media portrays benefits in such an awful and mostly untrue way. Most people who live on benefits struggle. A lot. If none benefit claimers stopped looking down on benefit claimers and were more understanding and tried to improve a benefit claimers day rather than have as much respect for them as a piece of shit on their shoe, then maybe the mental health of benefit claimers would improve and then maybe they'd want to/ be more able to work.

Just stop tarring everyone with the same brush.

I'm in a fair amount of debt with family because I had an extra mouth to feed this week, and taxi/ bus fare to hospital appointments isn't easily covered by what little I get by practically begging the government and tax payers and jumping through hoops to continue to get pennies when I'd much rather be working and supporting myself.

I'll swap you for a fortnight. You have my cash and I'll have yours. See how you manage.

Pub with mates? Nah I need gas.

Take my sister bowling? Nah cos I can't afford the tenner bus fare let alone however much a lane costs...

It's not all fun and games you know.

I think there are two type of people on benefits

Most use the system for whats its for, to help them out in times of need, keep them going between jobs, anybody can loose their job, any one of us could end up on benifits but some choose to stay there, for some being on benifits is a life style and are more than happy to stay there

That's not what the benifit system is for and I think that's what gets up a lot of people's noses "

Of course there's people like that. But what about those who really do need the help and don't want to be stuck on benefits? They're getting belittled just as much. What I meant by the way people see the benefit system was that people not on benefits need to stop tarring everyone with the same brush. And those abusing the system need to change their mindset about their lifestyle. It's seen as an easy way out by a lot of people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"I think yes....vouchers would be accepted in all major stores for all purchases except from obvious luxuries (fags, booze, 52" tellys) and free public transport to get to and from interviews."

Would they be able to buy the Daily Mail under your regime?!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over. "

When people are stressed/feeling down does it help to take their crutches away? The *assumption* is that they used benefits to get the TV and the sofa but just maybe they bought them in better times. But right now, they can't contemplate giving up the comfort they get from fags, some booze and watching TV.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast


"Should unemployment benefit be paid in vouchers rather than cash? "

Cash, the USA have a stamp/ voucher system in place. People just black market them for ineligible goods of lesser value , the criminals pocket the cream off the top.

Vouchers are stigmatising, and woupd probably limit choice as such a scheme would require retailer participation, and specialist systems. Smaller retailers would be at a disadvantage as they'd lack the funds to institute such a system thereby creating a monopoly amongst larger business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over. "

I agree

And I know not all unemployed people are the same

I know people who have been made redundant and go on benifits, but they usually find work within a few weeks

We all know people need a helping hand from time to time as I said that's what the system is for

But some take the piss

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over. "

Where are you seeing these people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not overly fussed either way. It's not really a solution to the issue. In this digital age it just as easy to assess their spending via a visa style payment card. No one need know or be embarrassed by it and it'll only cause issues if certain items are flagged up that perhaps wouldn't be considered acceptable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over. "

But they aren't though are they. If someone was claiming some sort of sickness benefit or if they were claiming something called disability living allowance which is made up of two components, care and mobility and there's higher middle and lower rate based on the disability, some people chose the car instead of having the money. They would get a brand new car every 3 years instead of having the mobility component paid as cash, that's not your average benefits claimant that's someone with a disability. Would you rather have a disability and a new car every 3 years or be healthy with no disabilities and have to get your car the same way as everyone else.

All the other bollocks the sofas the TV's the phones, it's all on credit. I don't know where people get these crazy ideas about benefits being these massive amounts of money. Most benefits are about 75 pound a week

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over.

I agree

And I know not all unemployed people are the same

I know people who have been made redundant and go on benifits, but they usually find work within a few weeks

We all know people need a helping hand from time to time as I said that's what the system is for

But some take the piss

"

Yes some do take the piss, royally. I know of one upstanding pillar of the community who ran his own business, his wife was paid minimum wage from it and so was he, they claimed full family tax credit, paid no tax and the business made a small loss every year. Their children were privately educated and they paid for the new car and yearly foreign holiday with cash.

We need to stop blaming one section of claimants for everything that's wrong with the welfare system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over.

But they aren't though are they. If someone was claiming some sort of sickness benefit or if they were claiming something called disability living allowance which is made up of two components, care and mobility and there's higher middle and lower rate based on the disability, some people chose the car instead of having the money. They would get a brand new car every 3 years instead of having the mobility component paid as cash, that's not your average benefits claimant that's someone with a disability. Would you rather have a disability and a new car every 3 years or be healthy with no disabilities and have to get your car the same way as everyone else.

All the other bollocks the sofas the TV's the phones, it's all on credit. I don't know where people get these crazy ideas about benefits being these massive amounts of money. Most benefits are about 75 pound a week "

Or bought with the money they get from working on the side

Guy next door to me has never worked a day in the 12 years I have lived next door to him, he breeds and sells dogs, makes more money a year than a lot of people earns, all tax free and gets his rent and council tax paid for

Not all unemployed people only manage on their benifit money, which could explain why a lot seem to live outside their means

And no I'm not saying everybody does that but we all know it happens

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast


"I'm not overly fussed either way. It's not really a solution to the issue. In this digital age it just as easy to assess their spending via a visa style payment card. No one need know or be embarrassed by it and it'll only cause issues if certain items are flagged up that perhaps wouldn't be considered acceptable. "

That's Orwellian, if someone has paid tax, they're entitled to cash. So bored of the "let's devise new ways of vilifying and humiliating the economically disadvantaged"..

Let's start collecting a fair proportional amount of tax from the super wealthy and cracking down on tax evasion..

That costs the treasury much more per year than a the meagre social security upkeep of those who are unfortunate enough to lose employment, for whatever reason.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see these people in my small town.

I said I know people claim benefits for various reasons and I'm not on about disability. I'm on about people who have no intention of getting a job.

Thank you for pointing out that things such as tv's could have been bought in better times.. I hadn't thought of that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes vouchers.

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

"

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work. "

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could "

They can. They did it to my ex. They're doing it to my mates boyfriend. They've told me that it's a possibility. Although I've not heard from them in months so whatever. The appeals system takes months too.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could "

Yes they can. Your GP's word is not enough now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could

They can. They did it to my ex. They're doing it to my mates boyfriend. They've told me that it's a possibility. Although I've not heard from them in months so whatever. The appeals system takes months too. "

I was reffering more to the point of people working rather than paying tax in. If you work or have worked your saving the tax payer etc money from paying out towards benefits. So you in my theory should recieve more than someone who has never worked.

If you have never worked i dont see why you should get as much as someone who has had a job in the past.

for example a man who works 10 years and loses his job surely shouldnt not be getting the same as someone who has not worked for 10 years

sorry to hear about the injury.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not overly fussed either way. It's not really a solution to the issue. In this digital age it just as easy to assess their spending via a visa style payment card. No one need know or be embarrassed by it and it'll only cause issues if certain items are flagged up that perhaps wouldn't be considered acceptable.

That's Orwellian, if someone has paid tax, they're entitled to cash. So bored of the "let's devise new ways of vilifying and humiliating the economically disadvantaged"..

Let's start collecting a fair proportional amount of tax from the super wealthy and cracking down on tax evasion..

That costs the treasury much more per year than a the meagre social security upkeep of those who are unfortunate enough to lose employment, for whatever reason."

Not really, card payments have overtaken cash as a preferred method of payments. If the person buys alcohol for example and knows they can't buy it on the card then they probably won't embarrass themselves by trying. Using a standard visa type card is going to be much less embarrassing than handing over vouchers. I never said I thought it should happen, I'm not sure where you got the impression I did

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could

They can. They did it to my ex. They're doing it to my mates boyfriend. They've told me that it's a possibility. Although I've not heard from them in months so whatever. The appeals system takes months too.

I was reffering more to the point of people working rather than paying tax in. If you work or have worked your saving the tax payer etc money from paying out towards benefits. So you in my theory should recieve more than someone who has never worked.

If you have never worked i dont see why you should get as much as someone who has had a job in the past.

for example a man who works 10 years and loses his job surely shouldnt not be getting the same as someone who has not worked for 10 years

sorry to hear about the injury.

"

I see the point of this but I hate the feeling of entitlement.

Because I have paid this in I should get x amount back, the system should be there for people who need it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could

They can. They did it to my ex. They're doing it to my mates boyfriend. They've told me that it's a possibility. Although I've not heard from them in months so whatever. The appeals system takes months too.

I was reffering more to the point of people working rather than paying tax in. If you work or have worked your saving the tax payer etc money from paying out towards benefits. So you in my theory should recieve more than someone who has never worked.

If you have never worked i dont see why you should get as much as someone who has had a job in the past.

for example a man who works 10 years and loses his job surely shouldnt not be getting the same as someone who has not worked for 10 years

sorry to hear about the injury.

I see the point of this but I hate the feeling of entitlement.

Because I have paid this in I should get x amount back, the system should be there for people who need it."

I agree but need being the operative word not those who want it

And I personally would say that a man who has lost his job after working for 10 years is not in the same category as a guy who hasn't worked for the past 10 years

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I just had a look at some information on various websites and it seems that long term unemployment in January 2016 was 1.5% of unemployed people. Long term unemployment was defined as looking for work for a year or more.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"

I see the point of this but I hate the feeling of entitlement.

Because I have paid this in I should get x amount back, the system should be there for people who need it.

I agree but need being the operative word not those who want it

And I personally would say that a man who has lost his job after working for 10 years is not in the same category as a guy who hasn't worked for the past 10 years "

The guy who hasn't worked for 10 years may have lost his job after working 10 years then became ill. He found it impossible at that time to find something else due to his illness. His skills and abilities have diminished in the 10 years he hasn't worked and he now finds he can't get anything no matter how hard he tries.

Assuming things about people's circumstances and then applying judgments to that is where the stigmatising happens.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I just had a look at some information on various websites and it seems that long term unemployment in January 2016 was 1.5% of unemployed people. Long term unemployment was defined as looking for work for a year or more.

"

People get worked up about the absolute minority and then apply "solutions" that hurt everyone.

The pensioner who has never worked is "entitled" but the person who has worked, perhaps became ill and then find themselves long-term unemployed is a feckless scrounger.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I see the point of this but I hate the feeling of entitlement.

Because I have paid this in I should get x amount back, the system should be there for people who need it.

I agree but need being the operative word not those who want it

And I personally would say that a man who has lost his job after working for 10 years is not in the same category as a guy who hasn't worked for the past 10 years

The guy who hasn't worked for 10 years may have lost his job after working 10 years then became ill. He found it impossible at that time to find something else due to his illness. His skills and abilities have diminished in the 10 years he hasn't worked and he now finds he can't get anything no matter how hard he tries.

Assuming things about people's circumstances and then applying judgments to that is where the stigmatising happens.

"

Well I guess that's cleared that one guys circumstances up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

for me its a no! For one its degrading also you'd have to make these vouchers then have a department for shops and retailers to redeem them costing more money although it would create a couple of jobs but not enough for the ill feeling it would cause.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Cash.

Adults should be treated as such and with respect for them to have 100% control over their lives. I'm ok with additional discount vouchers being given free of charge, no deductions to benefit, if some deals are arranged and offered by retailers.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"I can't make up my mind on this.. people are unemployed for varying reasons.. but.. when I see people who have no intention of getting a job spending tax payers money on fags and lotto and having better cars and bigger tv's etc it makes my blood boil. I don't know what the answer is but it annoys me when people think they're in poverty with a fag in one hand can of Stella in the other sat on a leather sofa in front of sky+hd with an iPhone 6 in their lap. sorry rant over.

But they aren't though are they. If someone was claiming some sort of sickness benefit or if they were claiming something called disability living allowance which is made up of two components, care and mobility and there's higher middle and lower rate based on the disability, some people chose the car instead of having the money. They would get a brand new car every 3 years instead of having the mobility component paid as cash, that's not your average benefits claimant that's someone with a disability. Would you rather have a disability and a new car every 3 years or be healthy with no disabilities and have to get your car the same way as everyone else.

All the other bollocks the sofas the TV's the phones, it's all on credit. I don't know where people get these crazy ideas about benefits being these massive amounts of money. Most benefits are about 75 pound a week

Or bought with the money they get from working on the side

Guy next door to me has never worked a day in the 12 years I have lived next door to him, he breeds and sells dogs, makes more money a year than a lot of people earns, all tax free and gets his rent and council tax paid for

Not all unemployed people only manage on their benifit money, which could explain why a lot seem to live outside their means

And no I'm not saying everybody does that but we all know it happens "

How would paying him in vouchers help stop him doing that?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could "

Not only can they, they frequently do.

You apply for ESA (sickness benefit) and you supply medical evidence from your GP (and sometimes specialists).

Then you are sent an appointment for an "assessment" with ATOS, Maximus or one of the companies contracted to carry out these "assessments".

You will be assessed by a "health worker" who may be a midwife, or a physiotherapist or any one of a number of health professions. Being assessed by an actual doctor is rare. The assessor may well have, and is actually likely to have, no knowledge of your health condition.

These "professionals" are paid and contracted to find you fit for work by any means necessary, including trickery, making unreasonable assumptions and outright lying.

The evidence from your doctor, or specialist, will be ignored. The decision will be based on the assessor's report.

Sometimes you are found fit for work, denied ESA and told to apply for JSA but when you go to apply for JSA you are told you're not well enough to work and are told to apply for ESA. Yes, this actually happens.

Those who do apply for JSA instead are often not capable of seeking/finding work and end up sanctioned with no money at all.

This is why they want people out of the ESA support group and onto ESA (WRAG) or JSA. They can then look for excuses to sanction them, they can bully them and they can shove them into work programmes, working full-time for their £73 per week benefit.

Sanctions are not a last resort to "encourage" those not following the rules to look for work. They are punitive and they are being used as a cost cutting measure, with job centre staff actively looking for reasons, often really minor things, to sanction people.

You can appeal but appeals often take a year or more and in that time, you are often left without money.

Sounds impossible? Far from it. Feel free to actually look into the truth behind "fit for work" assessments. There's loads of information out there.

I don't think most people would believe the realities of the current "welfare" system without seeing it for themselves.

Oh, incidentally, the ESA "assessment"... If you don't/can't go, you are automatically found fit for work. If you do go they use it as evidence that you are capable of working! Yes, the system really is that twisted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some folk need to waken up like and start living in the real world .

Theres only one reason why benefits shoukdnt be vouchers .

Crime will increase

more folk would be mugged in the streets

is it really worth it ?

Prisons would become even more over crowded

it would be an oncost in every possible way

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By *epper123Woman
over a year ago

London

I witness vouchers and food stamps when I lived in America. People were stigmatised and there was a black market for them, so people still got what they wanted, but had even less money because of it. I have been in receipt of housing benefit and child benefit in the past, but the amount of tax I paid far outweighed any benefits I got back ... seems a bit weird that I was made to be dependent on the system that I was paying into. Most of the people what I know on benefits are doing their darnedest to get off them through sheer hard work I dont believe everything I read in the papers ir see on TV. It's not what's going on out there ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A lot of valid points but I still say yes. If you're really wanting a job then there's plenty work out there so you wouldn't need to put up with it for very long "

REALLY? there's plenty of work out there. Tell me where then

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By *heclitmaster84Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "
id second Tha a lot of people in good jobs still claim some benefits x

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Yeah op lets just reopen the workhouses and have done with it stigmatise the unemployed disabled even more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah op lets just reopen the workhouses and have done with it stigmatise the unemployed disabled even more "

Well said , the tories tried to introduce a voucher scheme in the eighties and nineties. All unemployment benefits paid directly to their supporter , Tesco .

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By *heclitmaster84Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Plus some people who work still claim some benefits x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are people out there who take the piss, out of the system, of course there are. I'm related to some of them and it infuriates me sharing the same genes as the knobheads. Vouchers isn't the answer though; people who take the piss now would find a way to take the piss under a voucher system, and those who don't and need real support would struggle. But mainly it would end up complicated and costly to administer. People are always calling for more and more complicated specific taxes and benefit schemes, but don't want to pay for the administrators and support staff you would need to administer them all.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

[Removed by poster at 18/02/16 08:04:19]

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By *heclitmaster84Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Some do abuse the system Yes some people take piss on benefits wasting there money my little brother is 28 a single dad of 4 kids 11 9 6 4 and to get is benefits he's as to work at a none profit organization 9 to 5 4 days week so hows that far he's really struggle I work nights so help him out when I've add a hour sleep

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Jesus H Christ, just leave people on benefits alone fucking hell, out of your tax that comes out of your pay packet, welfare is only a tiny amount, the rest goes to emergency services, armed forces, environment and a load of other stuff. Just leave them to it.

No I don't think benefits should be paid in vouchers, would the ice cream man take these vouchers if you wanted to buy your kid a treat, would jumble sales and car boot sales take these vouchers, butchers, market stalls, energy companies, eBay?

Said it before, for people on here that are supposed to be all liberal and cool cos they're swingers some of you are the most judgemental bastards I've ever come across. "

I keep thinking this! Every time I start getting into chatting on the forums, a thread like this comes up and people show their true colours! I forget how judgemental people can be!

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By *rcticFoxxxWoman
over a year ago

Hereabouts


"Benefits should work as a point system i think.

Someone who has worked for years and loses their job should receive a lot more for a short time at least.

People who have not worked for years should get less and less

(people on disabilty etc is a different ball game though im talking in general)

You help the people who put into the system. Run out the ones who choose to abuse it.

I'm 22. I was in work from 16-18 (part time, practically no tax).. I was a carer for my ex for 2 years. No tax. Then worked for about 3 months and ended up injuring myself. Barely any tax in that time. I'm now on ESA with threat of being moved to JSA (not a disability benefit). So by your logic, if I get told by people in an office who go on the written word of a person in another office who didn't write anything while I was there, that I'm no longer entitled to be on ESA then I'll have not paid in enough to get anything back.. Yet according to medical professionals, I'm not fit for work.

It's a nice idea. But I don't think it'll work.

If you get a sick note from your doctor saying your not fit to work can they put you on job seekers? I didn't think they could

Not only can they, they frequently do.

You apply for ESA (sickness benefit) and you supply medical evidence from your GP (and sometimes specialists).

Then you are sent an appointment for an "assessment" with ATOS, Maximus or one of the companies contracted to carry out these "assessments".

You will be assessed by a "health worker" who may be a midwife, or a physiotherapist or any one of a number of health professions. Being assessed by an actual doctor is rare. The assessor may well have, and is actually likely to have, no knowledge of your health condition.

These "professionals" are paid and contracted to find you fit for work by any means necessary, including trickery, making unreasonable assumptions and outright lying.

The evidence from your doctor, or specialist, will be ignored. The decision will be based on the assessor's report.

Sometimes you are found fit for work, denied ESA and told to apply for JSA but when you go to apply for JSA you are told you're not well enough to work and are told to apply for ESA. Yes, this actually happens.

Those who do apply for JSA instead are often not capable of seeking/finding work and end up sanctioned with no money at all.

This is why they want people out of the ESA support group and onto ESA (WRAG) or JSA. They can then look for excuses to sanction them, they can bully them and they can shove them into work programmes, working full-time for their £73 per week benefit.

Sanctions are not a last resort to "encourage" those not following the rules to look for work. They are punitive and they are being used as a cost cutting measure, with job centre staff actively looking for reasons, often really minor things, to sanction people.

You can appeal but appeals often take a year or more and in that time, you are often left without money.

Sounds impossible? Far from it. Feel free to actually look into the truth behind "fit for work" assessments. There's loads of information out there.

I don't think most people would believe the realities of the current "welfare" system without seeing it for themselves.

Oh, incidentally, the ESA "assessment"... If you don't/can't go, you are automatically found fit for work. If you do go they use it as evidence that you are capable of working! Yes, the system really is that twisted."

For anyone who finds this hard to believe... There was a guy in a COMA that was found "fit for work"

I'm not gonna post the link to the article, but Google is your friend.

I've been stuck on the assessment rate of ESA since December 2014 because they lost my paperwork. They then found it and told me I have 0 points. I've not heard from them for months but I'd imagine if I hear from them again it'll be them telling me I'm not entitled to anything. And I daren't call them and speed up that process!! I send my sick notes in every 3 months and just hope for the best. Benefits suck. Nobody in their right mind wants to be on pennies a week.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So every person who works obviously pays their taxes in cash and also their national insurance contributions in cash.

If for whatever reason such people lose their job and then expect to get paid their benefit in vouchers ?

I don't think that's fair and frankly won't work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just had a look at some information on various websites and it seems that long term unemployment in January 2016 was 1.5% of unemployed people. Long term unemployment was defined as looking for work for a year or more.

"

Did it give ages of these long term unemployed people?

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

its not only the fact that you loose your jsa when you are sanctioned its that you then loose your housing benefit aswell causing you to go into arrears on your rent whilst your money is stopped so its a double wammy as you then have to find the arrears when you get your jsa back so indure even more hardship or eviction or homelessness

but remember " we are in it together "

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

We already have a voucher system in place, it's called cash! Everyone who is on benefits or working gets these pound sterling vouchers, in note or coin form. They take them and purchase what they require, then are given change, again in the form of a voucher which is coin or paper which they can spend wherever they want.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I just had a look at some information on various websites and it seems that long term unemployment in January 2016 was 1.5% of unemployed people. Long term unemployment was defined as looking for work for a year or more.

Did it give ages of these long term unemployed people?"

No it didn't.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

No. It's an incredibly stupid , ill thought out, unworkable suggestion.

I'd go as far as to say that people who hold , that benefits should be paid in vouchers are NOT doing so in the interests of the populace but from a desire to CONTROL the unemployed.

Sadly, I am not surprised that such simpletons exist who actually believe that the unemployed are a single homogenous group that you can threaten with vouchers and they will immediately find themselves lucrative employment and the nations coffers will swell with the savings.

What utter cuntish blindfolds are people wearing ?

If you want to save the country some rubels .... turn your gaze toward big business and tax evasion.

Don't forget.... all profits are made by UNDERPAYING the workers and without people on benefits no one would have a job. The government need an underclass to keep the rest of you on the hamsters wheel.

Talk about turning human against human.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"We already have a voucher system in place, it's called cash! Everyone who is on benefits or working gets these pound sterling vouchers, in note or coin form. They take them and purchase what they require, then are given change, again in the form of a voucher which is coin or paper which they can spend wherever they want."

ooooo correct Mrs. Idiot. We do indeed have that voucher system and it works well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No they shouldn't be paid in vouchers. I don't believe that stigmatising (further) people who claim benefits is the way forward."

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

No unemployed shouldn't receive vouchers instead of cash, the irresponsible would just sell the vouchers for cash and waste it on drink n drugs or gambling etc.

I think it would be more helpful to actually help people with Issues such as these to find a cure and to not stigmatise those who genuinely cannot find employment and help them to get back on their feet.

Also it would be useful to make the distinction between those who need benefits due to legit lack of employment and those who see a benefits as a lifestyle choice.

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