FabSwingers.com forum: is cameron pulling the wool over our eyes

By *anejohnkent6263 OP Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's certainly fucked more people than anybody on this site ever will

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was going to make a thoughtful reply but I can see it will just be 'yet another' area for the cheap shots at Cameron ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "

Whatever china wants us to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was going to make a thoughtful reply but I can see it will just be 'yet another' area for the cheap shots at Cameron ... "

I can promise I've put considerable thought into the many ways he's fucking people over.. and over

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most people I know want to stay in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And of course it won't be rigged, how exactly would that rigging be orchestrated?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "

I don't really see what you are trying to say.

I certainly don't think he is managing to put the wool over many people's eyes.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "

Me too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most people I know want to stay in. "

Same here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?"

Cameron seems to have forgotten about the English channel, that bit of the sea that separates us from France.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"I was going to make a thoughtful reply but I can see it will just be 'yet another' area for the cheap shots at Cameron ...

I can promise I've put considerable thought into the many ways he's fucking people over.. and over"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?"

The national border was agreed to be moved to Calais with the French when the Chunnel was built because technically as soon as some illegal migrant got to Dover he could claim Asylum. As it is in Calais they can't. We also have the same arrangement with Belgium so the French and Belgian borders are in British ports. But then not too many Brits are boarding trucks to get out of Britain. And that location of the Border had nothing to do with the EU and would not change if we left. I feel DC made a mistake if he played that card. I was hoping he would just do the negotiating and bring the results back and let us decide but it does seem he is very pro-EU. And as someone who voted for him I feel cheated but only on THAT. Everything else his Government is doing gets the

from me so far.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was going to make a thoughtful reply but I can see it will just be 'yet another' area for the cheap shots at Cameron ...

I can promise I've put considerable thought into the many ways he's fucking people over.. and over

Thank you guys for proving me right ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We don't know anyone amongst friends, family or work colleagues who wants to leave.

We can only hope that they are all as motivated by the sensible reasons for staying as those who want out are for their worries about end of the British Empire and fear of pasta.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"We don't know anyone amongst friends, family or work colleagues who wants to leave.

We can only hope that they are all as motivated by the sensible reasons for staying as those who want out are for their worries about end of the British Empire and fear of pasta.

Priceless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it is a correct move to negotiate. I don't see the need for a referendum if negotiations are looking positive but when it comes to it, I will place my vote having looked at the pros and cons that will affect jobs, trade, regulations, investment and military influence to name a few. As it stands I will be pro-EU, as I think the benefits of the EU outweigh any benefits of going solo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?

from me so far."

I guess that would mean that in the end he'll even be fucking his no.1 fan over

Because he's definitely in the vote-stay-in group. So am I.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is that negotiations are not working, everything that was asked for has been watered down.

Benefits should not be for sending back to countries where they are keeping thier children if they want to claim for children then they should be living here with them.

They are claiming 4x more tan they could claim in thier own country and sending it back

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

I don't really see what you are trying to say.

I certainly don't think he is managing to put the wool over many people's eyes."

Indeed, a sky news poll released last week showed 69% thought Cameron's new EU deal was poor, just 31% thought it was good.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

I don't really see what you are trying to say.

I certainly don't think he is managing to put the wool over many people's eyes.

Indeed, a sky news poll released last week showed 69% thought Cameron's new EU deal was poor, just 31% thought it was good."

Seems like sky got their 31% from fab

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

I don't really see what you are trying to say.

I certainly don't think he is managing to put the wool over many people's eyes.

Indeed, a sky news poll released last week showed 69% thought Cameron's new EU deal was poor, just 31% thought it was good.

Seems like sky got their 31% from fab"

Not me, I think Cameron's new EU deal is utter shite.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

I don't really see what you are trying to say.

I certainly don't think he is managing to put the wool over many people's eyes.

Indeed, a sky news poll released last week showed 69% thought Cameron's new EU deal was poor, just 31% thought it was good.

Seems like sky got their 31% from fab

Not me, I think Cameron's new EU deal is utter shite. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the record I was always going top vote 'out' regardless of what DC brings back so no one is fucking over at all ...

He is between a rock and a hard place and the EU will never give him even the small change he has asked for. I respect anyone for their belief in staying in or out whatever... But I do dislike the false stories and wrong examples. On QT last Thursday the Labour and Liberal Democrat women were playing the 'Norway' example over and over to frighten people. The UKIP bloke just said well we aren't Norway and we will have our own deal .. and the audience loved it ..

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

For those that don't think the border will come back this side of the Channel if we leave the EU. Please tell me the incentive for France to spend millions of Euro on the policing they have there, when they could just wash their hands of it all. I know our friends in Calais say the people there want the camp gone!

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By *ohnaronMan
over a year ago

london

"Most people I know want to stay in.

Same here

And same here

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I'm in the get out camp.

In my defence I have studied how the EU works and it's really not good for the UK.

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

which ever way things go in the plebicite i should imagine that fetid pile of excriment will not be PM for much longer afterwards ..... the only worry then is which other putrid heap of feces from his party will replace him

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"I'm in the get out camp.

In my defence I have studied how the EU works and it's really not good for the UK.

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You know what makes me chuckle.. The right wing wanna get out of Europe because it's been left wing orientated for years...

The left wing want in for the same reason...

Give it ten years, all the right wingers will want it and all the left wingers out..

As bob once said... For the times they are changin!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wouldn't it be funny though, if the reason he's suddenly mates with China, is that they secretly bought the UK in echange for paying off its trillions in debt lol...

...

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"You know what makes me chuckle.. The right wing wanna get out of Europe because it's been left wing orientated for years...

The left wing want in for the same reason...

Give it ten years, all the right wingers will want it and all the left wingers out..

As bob once said... For the times they are changin!!"

Really?

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Wouldn't it be funny though, if the reason he's suddenly mates with China, is that they secretly bought the UK in echange for paying off its trillions in debt lol...

...

Nonsense they would have to buy it back from germans and japenese first

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?"

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "
of course he will.. He's rigged other statistics, why stop with this one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wouldn't it be funny though, if the reason he's suddenly mates with China, is that they secretly bought the UK in echange for paying off its trillions in debt lol...

...

Nonsense they would have to buy it back from germans and japenese first"

Say "nonsense" all you want. British politics relies on the most pretentious nonsense of all in order to throw off the voters' scent when shit gets shady.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"For those that don't think the border will come back this side of the Channel if we leave the EU. Please tell me the incentive for France to spend millions of Euro on the policing they have there, when they could just wash their hands of it all. I know our friends in Calais say the people there want the camp gone!"

Britains agreement with France on having the border on the French side of the channel has nothing to do with the EU. It is a bilateral agreement signed by Tony Blair's Labour government and Jacques Chirac's french government back in 2003. Britain paid money directly to france as part of that deal. It is a totally separate agreement and has nothing to do with the EU.

Go look it up the information is freely available.

Simply put Cameron is scaremongering and trying to pull the wool over people's eyes on this. Many Tory MP's are fuming about this, Cameron's desperation seems to be getting worse with each passing day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The French don't Police our border in Calais. We do. They Police beyond that border and that is where the camps are ... We gave £12 Million to assist the French (in France) with security fencing and other measures. The French have Border staff in Dover and other British Ports.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny thing about Cameron's stance on the EU now. He's done a complete U-turn from wanting to leave and with little conviction.

He knows the stakes and he knows that if it fails it'll be his legacy, like all the other shit, so he wants the public to go against him and vote out.

That way he gets what he wants and we take responsibility for it backfiring.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"which ever way things go in the plebicite i should imagine that fetid pile of excriment will not be PM for much longer afterwards ..... the only worry then is which other putrid heap of feces from his party will replace him"

Wow .. how very helpful and informative was THAT .. And way off topic of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You know what makes me chuckle.. The right wing wanna get out of Europe because it's been left wing orientated for years...

The left wing want in for the same reason...

Give it ten years, all the right wingers will want it and all the left wingers out..

As bob once said... For the times they are changin!!

Really?"
.

You wanna have a really long hard look at the right wing parties in Europe!... Unfortunately I'm taking about the far right wing!.

That's why it makes me giggle when I think of lefties voting in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And of course it won't be rigged, how exactly would that rigging be orchestrated? "
easy.. Spout misleading crap repeatedly, make the voting slips waffley and not easy to understand, if if can get in power with 24% of the population voting for him. Anything is possible.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

Though quite why I'm bothering with facts is beyond me. Surely I'm not the only one who, while listening to the massive conspiracy on tonight's X-Files, thought "yeah, but to be fair, there are plenty on Fab who actually believe that"...

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Most people I know want to stay in.

Same here

& here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny thing about Cameron's stance on the EU now. He's done a complete U-turn from wanting to leave and with little conviction.

He knows the stakes and he knows that if it fails it'll be his legacy, like all the other shit, so he wants the public to go against him and vote out.

That way he gets what he wants and we take responsibility for it backfiring."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just remember on trade that joining the EU made no difference to the proportion of our exports going to the EU and leaving it and probably won't either in reality as its in both parties interest to trade.

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "

I think the answer to that is in the question; when exactly did Cameron actually show signs that he was going to favour an 'in or out' referendum?

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"You know what makes me chuckle.. The right wing wanna get out of Europe because it's been left wing orientated for years...

The left wing want in for the same reason...

Give it ten years, all the right wingers will want it and all the left wingers out..

As bob once said... For the times they are changin!!

Really?.

You wanna have a really long hard look at the right wing parties in Europe!... Unfortunately I'm taking about the far right wing!.

That's why it makes me giggle when I think of lefties voting in

This lefty wants out

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

I can't believe your letting facts get in the way of a classic fab 'debate'! ; )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

Can you provide sources for that because according to the Office for National Statistics:

"the EU in 2014 accounted for 44.6% of UK exports of goods and services, and 53.2% of UK imports of goods and services. However, strong economic growth in many developing economies outside the EU has resulted in non-EU economies growing in importance to UK trade, with the proportion accounted for by the EU falling consistently since 1999, despite the value of EU trade increasing"

"Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014"

" UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014"

"the trade deficit widening notably, reaching £61.6 billion in 2014 compared with £11.2 billion in 1999"

Basically we are the EU's biggest export market and the EU is not our biggest market given it is a group of countries. Trade is declining as a % and in real terms.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html

And our payments to the EU in 2016 are forecast to be over £11 Billion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Top 5 Import Sellers:

Germany, China, USA, Holland, France.

Top 5 Export Customers:

USA, Germany, Switzerland, China, Ireland.

Copied from an earlier Thread on the EU.

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By *nfamyMan
over a year ago

Goole

Whatever the country wants, DC paymasters will do whatever best for them.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

And so it begins

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Just remember on trade that joining the EU made no difference to the proportion of our exports going to the EU and leaving it and probably won't either in reality as its in both parties interest to trade.

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general."

Britain is home to a larger stock of EU and US foreign direct investment (FDI) than any other EU economy and is the preferred location for investment from other leading markets. Many of these companies have said they would pull their investment out of the UK and re-invest it in the EU if we left.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whatever the country wants, DC paymasters will do whatever best for them.

As opposed to labour who have no paymasters? (Cough) Trade unions (cough)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whatever the country wants, DC paymasters will do whatever best for them.

As opposed to labour who have no paymasters? (Cough) Trade unions (cough) "

This is a kick DC Thread so we mustn't hijack it with facts ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border.."

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

We have had a special arrangement with eire that goes beyond the EU, EC, EEC etc ... I think you will find there is more in the Good Friday Agreement than in any EU laws. And in any case we have had a special arrangement with Eire even inside the EU as they are Shengen and we are not."
an open border policy is fine with irish folk commuting to work in derry etc but what about non eu folk who can just dance across the border and find themselves in uk unhindered

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Mr ddc

Can you provide sources for that because according to the Office for National Statistics:..."

Sure, the OEC website. I believe the figures are for 2013.

I assumed since all the lefties had already decided all government or EU statistics were fabricated as part of the alien conspiracy, an independent international trade body might be acceptable?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

When did Ireland join the Schengen countries?

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

But that includes exports that go from us to other place via the EU. The EU doesn't take all that itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

Can you provide sources for that because according to the Office for National Statistics:

"Exports from the UK to EU and non-EU countries have grown on average by 3.6% and 6.5% respectively in each year between 1999 and 2014"

" UK exports destined for the EU falling from 54.8% in 1999 to 44.6% in 2014"

"the trade deficit widening notably, reaching £61.6 billion in 2014 compared with £11.2 billion in 1999"

Basically we are the EU's biggest export market and the EU is not our biggest market given it is a group of countries. Trade is declining as a % and in real terms.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/international-transactions/outward-foreign-affiliates-statistics/how-important-is-the-european-union-to-uk-trade-and-investment-/sty-eu.html

And our payments to the EU in 2016 are forecast to be over £11 Billion."

I'm sorry .......

....... are you actually saying that we are the entire EU's biggest export market?

Please...........

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"Britain is home to a larger stock of EU and US foreign direct investment (FDI) than any other EU economy and is the preferred location for investment from other leading markets. Many of these companies have said they would pull their investment out of the UK and re-invest it in the EU if we left.

Lots of guys on here say they are vwe

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

When did Ireland join the Schengen countries?"

don't let facts get in the way of his arguement .... he never has

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

We have had a special arrangement with eire that goes beyond the EU, EC, EEC etc ... I think you will find there is more in the Good Friday Agreement than in any EU laws. And in any case we have had a special arrangement with Eire even inside the EU as they are Shengen and we are not."
i dont think britain and ireland are shengan as unlike other states dont share common borders apart from ulster which falls under other agreements

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out

Whatever china wants us to do."

I know little Britons will find this hard to hear but the UK doesn't even make the top 5 in the list of countries China gives a shit about influencing

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By *ighland_RoseCouple
over a year ago

Brigadoon

And as for the trade argument, how much of our stuff do you really think France and Germany buy?

US($50.2B), Germany ($46.6B), the Netherlands ($36B), France ($28.8B) and Belgium-Luxembourg ($25.1B)

Overall 55% of our exports are within the EU.

Mr ddc

I for one appreciate your facts Mr DDC. I haven't decided which way I'll vote yet, but I know I'll be looking at facts and figures and not voting emotionally or reading anything in the media.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view."

Is that a polite way of saying that some voters are too stupid to have a valid opinion?

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By *nfamyMan
over a year ago

Goole

"Whatever the country wants, DC paymasters will do whatever best for them.

As opposed to labour who have no paymasters? (Cough) Trade unions (cough) "

Keep to _umours please, not actual facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view."

That's not the same as rigging it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've yet to decide , I imagine a lot of voters won't decide until nearer the referendum. Does he actually want out or does he want the referendum so that in the end, we stay in anyway, but we feel we've had our say?

Sarah

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view."

I must remember that when we mail single bi fems

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view.

Is that a polite way of saying that some voters are too stupid to have a valid opinion? "

No it has to do with human psychology and is called response bias. Whenever a question is asked that has a yes or no answer we are significantly more lightly to answer yes, in fact I believe the bias is usually round 10% but can be as much as 60 or 70%. This is why you never see market research questionnaires with yes/no answers these days.

As we have already been told that the referendum will be a simple yes or no question it has by that very fact got to be a biased (rigged) poll.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view.

Is that a polite way of saying that some voters are too stupid to have a valid opinion?

As we have already been told that the referendum will be a simple yes or no question it has by that very fact got to be a biased (rigged) poll. "

Yes yes I've read Kahneman & Tversky too, but those biases don't effect everyone do they now. So my question stands.

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

YES NO DOUBT THERE

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view.

Is that a polite way of saying that some voters are too stupid to have a valid opinion?

As we have already been told that the referendum will be a simple yes or no question it has by that very fact got to be a biased (rigged) poll.

Yes yes I've read Kahneman & Tversky too, but those biases don't effect everyone do they now. So my question stands. "

Ah...

Maybe, but I don't think that a link between intelligence and suggestibility has been proven. Although I will concede that those that are better informed are less likely to be manipulated. So I would suggest it is more about education than intelligence.

What do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view.

Is that a polite way of saying that some voters are too stupid to have a valid opinion?

As we have already been told that the referendum will be a simple yes or no question it has by that very fact got to be a biased (rigged) poll.

Yes yes I've read Kahneman & Tversky too, but those biases don't effect everyone do they now. So my question stands.

Ah...

What do you think?"

Hmmm I think that my thoughts aren't practically enforceable.

No I don't think everyone is capable of voting, but I don't think any organisation is capable of distinguishing who is capable either. So I guess we're stuck with the status quo. I don't believe the proportion of people that are so easily mislead will be significant to the result anyway.

Remember that most of Kahneman & Tverskys experiments were very low stakes environments with students who had minimal consequences from the outcomes. Other studies have proven that behaviour modifies when the stakes are higher.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Hmmm I think that my thoughts aren't practically enforceable.

Interesting...

I have to say that I am in a different camp to your where voting is concerned. For what it is worth I would make voting minatory with severe penalties for those that do not vote. But I would add an extra 'None of the above' box on all ballot papers.

As for the referendum I have to say I think that many will be swayed to vote against their best interests because not only will the question be framed in a way to get the result wanted by the establishment but it will be backed up with media manipulation and downright propaganda.

For myself I am a total Europhile, but I fear that the UK is the USA's trojan horse in the EU and that we are a disruptive influence and really should be told no special deals and if we don't like it get out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's certainly fucked more people than anybody on this site ever will"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see any inherent contradiction with getting special deals. Germany gets one everyday by having a currency that is undervalued! It's what politics is about about, nobody joins the EU for noble, higher moral goals!

We are indeed America's trojan horse but there's no real law in international relations, except for what suits powerful countries at the time. So a small nation should get used to grovelling to big nations unless it pools a degree of sovereignty into an alliance, which effectively is what America did to become America.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think in a referendum of significant importance it's probably not a bad thing that the question is framed in such a way that it favours the status quo. People with really strong feelings on either side are not going to be swayed by the phrasing of it, only the ones who don't really give a shit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my work I frequently talk with business people from the USA, China and some other large non-EU countries. These people like doing business in the UK because they view it as an easy place to set up a company (not too much bureaucracy, reasonable employment and tax laws, etc), access to a skilled workforce and, crucially, they have seen the UK as a gateway to the European market (unsurprisingly, half a billion consumers is attractive to every business).

Right now, the UK is the number one European country for receiving foreign investment, but if we leave the EU foreign investors will think twice about setting up their HQs here. Indeed, some of the people I talk to are already talking about moving their main operations to Germany or France, because they keep hearing that the UK is not committed to the EU and they simply can't take the risk of not being at the heart of the European market.

One could argue that a non-EU Britain would still be strong in Europe, but that won't be the perception of foreign investors. They will follow the path of least resistance and the UK will suffer economically.

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"All yes no votes are rigged!

It is well known that if you ask a yes/no question a significant number will answer 'yes' to be positive even though if asked their opinion in a different way would give the opposite view."

Just as well the words yes/ no won't be on the voting paper then. We have already been told by the electoral commission the 2 options available will be Remain or Leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

When did Ireland join the Schengen countries?"

Err .. They aren't. I had brain fade and my fingers were somewhat distant from the few brain cells operating at the time.

Many apologies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Shutting down and tightening borders is fine and well with sea portd...but what about uks land border..

When did Ireland join the Schengen countries?

don't let facts get in the way of his arguement .... he never has"

At least I try to give facts and detail unlike 'some'.. and I have the balls to own up when I make a mistake. (Look above). But the fundamental point of our border with Eire being a bilateral not EU agreement is correct. But do please come forward with some FACTS.

Smart arsed comments and smug one - liners do NOT make you right and add nothing but annoyance.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Just as well the words yes/ no won't be on the voting paper then. We have already been told by the electoral commission the 2 options available will be Remain or Leave. "

Apparently the full text of the question is:

"Should we remain in the EU, or leave things as they are? Tick either 'remain' or 'leave'"

I feel encouraged the outies are already preparing their excuses

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Just as well the words yes/ no won't be on the voting paper then. We have already been told by the electoral commission the 2 options available will be Remain or Leave.

Apparently the full text of the question is:

"Should we remain in the EU, or leave things as they are? Tick either 'remain' or 'leave'"

I feel encouraged the outies are already preparing their excuses

I think you've got that wrong, lol.

The 2 options will be Remain in the EU or Leave the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sorry ....... ....... are you actually saying that we are the entire EU's biggest export market?

Please........... "

This may come as a shock but yes, according to independent ONS data, within the EU as an individual country (hence my comment about the EU being a group of countries) the EU needs us trade wise more than we need them. And the trade figures for December show a bigger trade gap.

Which indicates that the EU would be unlikely to want to disrupt that trade with us by raising tariffs or duties or whatever. And in any case everything remains 'as is' for 2 years after any country leaves. The point being we have nothing to fear trade wise from leaving the EU.

The other implication is that despite being shackled by EU created trade agreements with the rest of the world (we can't negotiate on our own) we are increasing our export trade with the rest of the world while export trade with the EU is decreasing.

Unless of course you have FACTS and figures to contradict the official figures from the ONS?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just as well the words yes/ no won't be on the voting paper then. We have already been told by the electoral commission the 2 options available will be Remain or Leave.

Apparently the full text of the question is:

"Should we remain in the EU, or leave things as they are? Tick either 'remain' or 'leave'"

I feel encouraged the outies are already preparing their excuses

I can't see any excuses or the need for any. The only people running a fear campaign are the normal suspects in the 'I love the EU' group. We have nothing to fear from leaving and the 'We are out' group say as much.

But the actual question we will be asked is (according to the Electoral Commission):

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union

Leave the European Union"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?

Cameron seems to have forgotten about the English channel, that bit of the sea that separates us from France.

No that's where the camps would be lol though not sure how you pitch a tent on water

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has been from day 1.

He only cares about lining his and his mates pockets.

Have you seen when he gives a statement and then pisses off so no one can question him?

He's a puppet anyways.

I want him out and dropped off at "the jungle" in Calais. See how long you last.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?

Cameron seems to have forgotten about the English channel, that bit of the sea that separates us from France.

No that's where the camps would be lol though not sure how you pitch a tent on water "

The camps will remain in France seeing as we have a bilateral agreement with France that has nothing to do with the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my work I frequently talk with business people from the USA, China and some other large non-EU countries. These people like doing business in the UK because they view it as an easy place to set up a company (not too much bureaucracy, reasonable employment and tax laws, etc), access to a skilled workforce and, crucially, they have seen the UK as a gateway to the European market (unsurprisingly, half a billion consumers is attractive to every business).

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

So how much trade does that bring to the UK from the EU having an HQ in London? If it is substantial then that will make a difference if they pull out. One might say having invested $Millions already would they write that off and spend more $Millions doing it all over again somewhere else? For what gain? And what would those companies lose by remaining in the UK rather than in Brussels?

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know. "

It was on the news last night that HSBC will be keeping it's headquarters in London. They had plans to move to Hong Kong but have decided against it now and staying in London. Of course if the scare stories from the pro EU side are to be believed HSBC would move to France or Germany, but that isn't happening. They are staying in London.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has been from day 1.

He only cares about lining his and his mates pockets.

Have you seen when he gives a statement and then pisses off so no one can question him?

He's a puppet anyways.

I want him out and dropped off at "the jungle" in Calais. See how long you last."

Well that was totally off-topic and just a bunch of unsubstantiated opinions which add nothing. But hey as I said its a 'lets kick DC' session all over again.

So if he is only after lining his pockets why is he in politics? He could command a substantially bigger pay check in the private sector. And what 'mates' does he look after? Care to name some? Oh wait no you DC kickers only do the one - liner sound bites perfected by New Labour ...

Oh and you clearly have a very short attention span as at every Statement made in The House he answers very many questions. At Press Conferences there are people called 'The Press' who do things called 'asking questions'. When public speeches are made he does a 'Q & A' session afterwards.

Get a grip ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't really worry about the trade so much, businesses do what businesses do, the EU, trade deals.. It's all a bit of nonsense really, we traded with eu countries before the EU and we'll trade with them after the EU.

Business looks for skills, infrastructure, relative stability and most importantly consumers!.

I don't like the EU because it's distant, it feels like it has very little accountability, and most importantly I'd be throwing my hand in with 300 million other citizens who have a habit of turning nasty when things aren't so good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

Which is a decision to do with the goverent backing down on the banking levy and nothing to do with the eu. Meanwhile HSBC's chairman highlighted the economic uncertainty created by the risk of the uk leaving Europe as you can find by searching for the headline "HSBC warns of economic risks of UK pulling out of Europe".

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

His mother has signed a petition against local cuts.

She seems nice.

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By *van ArdenMan
over a year ago

Coleford, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire.

Cameron and his motley crew want to "save the UK". They want to save it for themselves and their tax avoiding bent cronies.

Don't be fooled by any of them.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"His mother has signed a petition against local cuts.

She seems nice. "

So did he didn't he? Wrote a personal letter and everything. Wasn't the issue about cutting back-office waste and bureaucracy rather than front-line services? (Sadly something the European Parliament could take heed of too...

)

Mr ddc

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Cameron and his motley crew want to "save the UK". They want to save it for themselves and their tax avoiding bent cronies.

Don't be fooled by any of them."

I'm sure there was a thread a few days ago where you could organise Pol Pot, Corbyn, Assange, Thatcher and Gadaffi in order of saintliness. There was another name, but I couldn't work out if it was meant to be Mother Teresa or Nikola Tesla. Feel free to add DC to the list somewhere, perhaps on a separate thread?

Ooh, and that footie bloke

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"His mother has signed a petition against local cuts.

She seems nice.

)

Mr ddc"

Well that's what he suggested in his letter but the council had already done that.

They'd cut staff by a third, management by 40% and are sharing services with other councils.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

"
.

HSBC worrying about economic risks... They've got a fucking nerve trotting out bollocks like that after the last 20 years of outright fraud which collapsed the global economy in the first place!

We'd be better off hanging them, than taking financial advise of them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Next up Volkswagen will declare they couldn't possibly sell cars in the UK without EU air quality standards

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Smart arsed comments and smug one - liners do NOT make you right and add nothing but annoyance.

you're annoyed? i don't care really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

HSBC worrying about economic risks... They've got a fucking nerve trotting out bollocks like that after the last 20 years of outright fraud which collapsed the global economy in the first place!

We'd be better off hanging them, than taking financial advise of them"

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

HSBC worrying about economic risks... They've got a fucking nerve trotting out bollocks like that after the last 20 years of outright fraud which collapsed the global economy in the first place!

We'd be better off hanging them, than taking financial advise of them

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please. "
.

They didn't get bailed out technically... But if they hadn't been borrowing(QE) for fuck all for the last what 8 years, I'm sure they would have needed "bailing out"... Well apart from that, the wholesale tax avoidance for the wealthy, libour, four x,rigging markets, laundering money for Hezbollah, laundering money for Mexican drug lords...

Totally innocent...

Or we could just go back to their market analyse in 06 or 07 where they said everything was rosy!!.

I mean are we really panicking that Starbucks might fuck off or Facebook or Google or apple..

Hoorah I say, we might actually get company's that actually pay tax!

Were obsessed with national debt yet every month are trade account deficit is like 30 fucking billon and growing..

Honestly where do people think that money comes from!..

Sure don't worry we can frack the place to fuck to pay for it, hoorah... Oh wait I kinda like water and don't wanna end up like flint Michigan or half of the usa!

I pointed out quite a few years ago, that when you expand your population by over 10% like we've done, then you better prepare for two things, either spend billions expanding infrastructure or get used to your schools, hospitals, roads and energy grids being stretched to breaking point!

Oh wait no...thats just me being xenophobic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need the billions of pounds and the many thousands of jobs that foreign investors bring to this country, so I for one will be voting to stay in the EU.

These are genuine questions as I really don't know.

HSBC worrying about economic risks... They've got a fucking nerve trotting out bollocks like that after the last 20 years of outright fraud which collapsed the global economy in the first place!

We'd be better off hanging them, than taking financial advise of them

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please. .

Totally innocent...

Or we could just go back to their market analyse in 06 or 07 where they said everything was rosy!!.

I mean are we really panicking that Starbucks might fuck off or Facebook or Google or apple..

Hoorah I say, we might actually get company's that actually pay tax!

Were obsessed with national debt yet every month are trade account deficit is like 30 fucking billon and growing..

Honestly where do people think that money comes from!..

Sure don't worry we can frack the place to fuck to pay for it, hoorah... Oh wait I kinda like water and don't wanna end up like flint Michigan or half of the usa!

Oh wait no...thats just me being xenophobic

Calm down dear, it's just a commercial.

You're going to die one day and I assure you these problems will still be rampant when you do. If you carry on like this the only change will be that you die sooner from a heart attack.

I'm just saying you could redirect your anger to the worst banks rather than the best of a bad bunch.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Has been from day 1.

He only cares about lining his and his mates pockets.

Have you seen when he gives a statement and then pisses off so no one can question him?

He's a puppet anyways.

I want him out and dropped off at "the jungle" in Calais. See how long you last.

Well that was totally off-topic and just a bunch of unsubstantiated opinions which add nothing. But hey as I said its a 'lets kick DC' session all over again.

Get a grip ...."

I dislike Cameron with the whole of my being but i will say he is the best pm we have ever had at not answering a question. Thats not a one liner!

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

Only if your THICK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island"

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can some cunt explain to me exactly what it is that we make that will suddenly be to easier to sell to the rest of the world. We don't produce steel as China told Cameron to stop, our big car companies are owned by European or Indian companies. Half the gormless anti EU cunts will be fucking moaning when there workers rights get stopped. Fuck Cameron, Fuck that gormless chinless UKIP cunt, fuck cunts who believe what they read in the Mail/Express and just fucking shoot Osbourne.

I'm currently based in Germany and they have a far better standard of life

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please. "

it's a grey area .... here's what michael cherkasky (i'm guessing yo know who he is)has said about hsbc and the 2008 crash ....

"HSBC insured many behind the scenes products with AIG, and received over $1 Billion from AIG when the assets went bad. HSBC did manage to lose billions on subprime and lax lending in the United States. While HSBC did not receive bailout funds, HSBC did receive billions from AIG, after AIG received bailout funds.

It is only through good public relations that HSBC was never recognized as one of the top ten subprime lenders in the United States, where practically all of that lax lending was through unregulated divisions of the bank.

HSBC’s purchase of Household International was a failure. In four official protests to the OCC I personally told HSBC the deal would not work.

This is the same OCC that failed miserably as a regulator, thus one must ask if HSBC and the OCC were both asleep.

HSBC did not sail through the financial crisis. The truth is HSBC pulled the rug out from under many brokers and lenders without warning, resulting in broker and lender bankruptcy. That resulted in job losses, and job losses soon spread throughout the financial industry, including HSBC Finance.

By early 2012 HSBC credit cards remained as the only active division of HSBC Finance"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Camerons half hearted attempts to 'negotiate a better' but temporary deal,of course he wants to keep us in the eu,as do most politicians,if this country couldn't blame,but still go ahead with eu crap,and they actually had to manage and run the country instead of positioning for their next job,we'd soon see how useless they are?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please.

it's a grey area .... here's what michael cherkasky (i'm guessing yo know who he is)has said about hsbc and the 2008 crash ....

HSBC’s purchase of Household International was a failure. In four official protests to the OCC I personally told HSBC the deal would not work.

This is the same OCC that failed miserably as a regulator, thus one must ask if HSBC and the OCC were both asleep.

By early 2012 HSBC credit cards remained as the only active division of HSBC Finance""

Good points, well made.

I'm just saying that they'd be nearer the end of the list of banks I'd be angry at, not that they are blameless.

Maybe they had a good PR team on the matter - I guess they used the same on Bill Clinton did

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

"Today they were saying that if we came out then France would push back the border to the uk so that passport checks would have to be done here and then we would have migrant camps here.

Surely we could just turn anyone away right back on the next ferry from where they came from as they would not have a visa just like Australia does?

Cameron seems to have forgotten about the English channel, that bit of the sea that separates us from France.

He also seems to have forgotten that France has signed up to the EU agreement on movement of people displaced by war etc, which means that, as they would be the last "EU" country (geographically speaking) bound by it if we pull out, then they should deal with them.

I cant see that happening, migrants should, if the EU countries were playing ball, stop in the FIRST safe country they get to away from the warzone.... funny how many of them head for the UK.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please.

it's a grey area .... here's what michael cherkasky (i'm guessing yo know who he is)has said about hsbc and the 2008 crash ....

HSBC’s purchase of Household International was a failure. In four official protests to the OCC I personally told HSBC the deal would not work.

This is the same OCC that failed miserably as a regulator, thus one must ask if HSBC and the OCC were both asleep.

By early 2012 HSBC credit cards remained as the only active division of HSBC Finance"

Good points, well made.

I'm just saying that they'd be nearer the end of the list of banks I'd be angry at, not that they are blameless.

Maybe they had a good PR team on the matter - I guess they used the same on Bill Clinton did"

nah .... he just balanced the books for the first time and played saxaphone like the pied piper

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

HSBC didn't have any trouble in 2008 or use any bailout funds. So redirect your anger at the banks that did please.

it's a grey area .... here's what michael cherkasky (i'm guessing yo know who he is)has said about hsbc and the 2008 crash ....

HSBC’s purchase of Household International was a failure. In four official protests to the OCC I personally told HSBC the deal would not work.

This is the same OCC that failed miserably as a regulator, thus one must ask if HSBC and the OCC were both asleep.

By early 2012 HSBC credit cards remained as the only active division of HSBC Finance"

Good points, well made.

I'm just saying that they'd be nearer the end of the list of banks I'd be angry at, not that they are blameless.

Maybe they had a good PR team on the matter - I guess they used the same on Bill Clinton did

nah .... he just balanced the books for the first time and played saxaphone like the pied piper "

And started the course to the 2008 crash

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash "

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986"

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from? "
.

Tax research UK... I quoted the years wrong that was 2011 and 2012.. Correct figures though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from? .

Tax research UK... I quoted the years wrong that was 2011 and 2012.. Correct figures though."

Why do tax research UK quote in dollars out of interest?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986"
.

Margret Thatcher and dear old Ronnie Reagan were the first pair to deregulate the finance and banking sector!... Can't remember the nickname at the time... Something along the lines of the big bang... Which actually described there's finances 20 years later

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By *ary_JosephCouple
over a year ago

South Shields

"is the great DC doing everything he can to convince us all to stay in the eu.and will the result be rigged anyway ....most people I know want out "

Well we certainty want out.

The EU has been shown up for what it is. Another quango that does bugger all for the UK.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember "

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from? .

Tax research UK... I quoted the years wrong that was 2011 and 2012.. Correct figures though.

Why do tax research UK quote in dollars out of interest? "
.Dunno

I'm guessing that HSBC annual account is priced in dollars?.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Yes in relation to the OP..

but hardly a surprise as they all do it at some point..

his mistake (one of many, but again they all do) was to have it in their manifesto before he had sounded it out with the rest of the EU who will say aye or nay..

now its been watered down it could be a tricky one although my instinct is that we will stay in..

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas"

How could he have known, in 2010, that the crisis would last until 2012? Anyway, he was speaking with the benefit of hindsight. The 2008 crisis was started in the USA because of bad debt on mortgages. In my opinion.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Cameron is as dodgy as they come and certainly not trustworthy. He is eager to lie at every opportunity. Fairly incompetent too.

The voting count will be genuinely accurate but voter registration is very low, due to the changes they've introduced. They also don't want 16/7 years old voters either - which is wrong imo.

The government is in disarray - I think the party bankrollers will want us to remain in Europe. All will be done to influence this.

The vote is being held to deflect from ukip and attempt to pull some of that mob back, as well as appease the party's famous swivel eyed lot.

We will stay in.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Cameron is as dodgy as they come and certainly not trustworthy. He is eager to lie at every opportunity. Fairly incompetent too.

The voting count will be genuinely accurate but voter registration is very low, due to the changes they've introduced. They also don't want 16/7 years old voters either - which is wrong imo.

The government is in disarray - I think the party bankrollers will want us to remain in Europe. All will be done to influence this.

The vote is being held to deflect from ukip and attempt to pull some of that mob back, as well as appease the party's famous swivel eyed lot.

We will stay in. "

If we stay in the Tories will implode - they will declare war on themselves and tear each other to shreds.

Oh well....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas"

Than whose? it's warren buffets opinion that it had more to do with the creation of things like credit default swaps that weren't allowed until clinton signed into law the financial services modernisation act. I'd say his opinion certainly has more gravitas if you want to keep playing top trumps than use logic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from? .

Tax research UK... I quoted the years wrong that was 2011 and 2012.. Correct figures though.

Why do tax research UK quote in dollars out of interest? .Dunno

I'm guessing that HSBC annual account is priced in dollars?.

Why would it be, it's a UK company. It's in pounds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas

Your opinion and the opinion of just about every expert on the subject.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas

Technically there both right, the deregulation started in the 80s with the big bang and was continued under both parties both here and in the US, Clinton certainly cut the deregulation again in 98 along with Blair and brown.... This was all coming to a head in 2000/2001 with the collapse of the dot com bubble which all the banks had a hand in the bailouts certainly started before then with the giant hedge fund bailed out... Luckily some dicks flew a plane into a couple of buildings causing the world to temporally forget!!!..

It's exactly what happens when you start bending over backwards for business...

They stick it right up your arse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems to me some folk couldn't even tell the difference between wool and bri-nylon.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just checked HSBC corporation tax bill for last year in the UK

2015 60 million dollars

2014 they got a 8 million dollar tax write off

Tax paid abroad 2015 5500 million dollars... Yeah they must be desperate to leave this tax crazy island

Huh? Their tax paid in 2014 was £564m of which £249m was paid in the UK so a rate of 28% overall. Where are you getting your figures from? .

Tax research UK... I quoted the years wrong that was 2011 and 2012.. Correct figures though.

Why do tax research UK quote in dollars out of interest? .Dunno

I'm guessing that HSBC annual account is priced in dollars?.

Why would it be, it's a UK company. It's in pounds. "
.

Dunno.

Here's the finacial times page, they price it in dollars as well.

https://next.ft.com/content/db89a232-ecf7-11e4-bebf-00144feab7de

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Cameron is as dodgy as they come and certainly not trustworthy. He is eager to lie at every opportunity. Fairly incompetent too.

The voting count will be genuinely accurate but voter registration is very low, due to the changes they've introduced. They also don't want 16/7 years old voters either - which is wrong imo.

The government is in disarray - I think the party bankrollers will want us to remain in Europe. All will be done to influence this.

The vote is being held to deflect from ukip and attempt to pull some of that mob back, as well as appease the party's famous swivel eyed lot.

We will stay in. "

I agree with you about Cameron being a dodgy liar.

Don't agree about 16/17 year old having the vote in this referendum.

Agree about the Tory government being in disarray, they are well and truly split on the EU. You think the tory bank rollers will want tories to stay in but most evidence suggests majority of grass roots tories want out.

The tories won't ever get back ukip supporters while they are split on the EU.

Ukip are fully United on Brexit.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Cameron is as dodgy as they come and certainly not trustworthy. He is eager to lie at every opportunity. Fairly incompetent too.

The voting count will be genuinely accurate but voter registration is very low, due to the changes they've introduced. They also don't want 16/7 years old voters either - which is wrong imo.

The government is in disarray - I think the party bankrollers will want us to remain in Europe. All will be done to influence this.

The vote is being held to deflect from ukip and attempt to pull some of that mob back, as well as appease the party's famous swivel eyed lot.

We will stay in.

I agree with you about Cameron being a dodgy liar.

Don't agree about 16/17 year old having the vote in this referendum.

The tories won't ever get back ukip supporters while they are split on the EU.

Ukip are fully United on Brexit. "

Would just add 6 out of 10 Tory MP's want out of the EU, and they say they are representing the views of their constituents.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And started the course to the 2008 crash

if you want to go down that route then nigel lawson (anagram of we all sign on)kicked it all off in 1986

Not really, it started in America because of a housing bubble if you remember

that's your opinion .....

In 2010, Nigel Lawson, appeared on the Analysis programme to discuss banking reform, explaining that the 2007–2012 global financial crisis was an unintended consequence of the "Big Bang"

i'll go with nige's opinion as it certainly has more gravitas

Than whose? "

than a faceless random on a sex site who could be an unemployed hairy palmed knuckle shuffler for all we know. anyhow, you're dragging the thread way off topic as usual. let's discuss european referendum in terms of the potential need for holiday visas or diminished availability of tidy cheese and wine at the cornershop instead of economics for a change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's interesting to consider that the whole outcome of a referendum could hinge on the massive lack of unity in UKIP, with up to 28% of them (about a million voters) saying they'll vote to stay in.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/06/big-dividing-lines-eu-age-education-and-newspaper-/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out of the EU

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

If you listen to David Cameron when he's making a speech or talking to some audience, he will often say "Let me make it clear to you" and then he obfuscates. I don't trust anyone who feels the need to patronise.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"I've yet to decide , I imagine a lot of voters won't decide until nearer the referendum. Does he actually want out or does he want the referendum so that in the end, we stay in anyway, but we feel we've had our say?

Sarah"

This is what I'm worried about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you listen to David Cameron when he's making a speech or talking to some audience, he will often say "Let me make it clear to you" and then he obfuscates. I don't trust anyone who feels the need to patronise. "

True but don't they all? Try getting a straight answer out of Corbyn!

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general."

You think?

So what happens, if we leave, in a couple of years when the EU brings in a new rule - as an example only, say that you can't sell agricultural products in the EU if you use Neonicitinoids. So, if this is an important trade item, the UK has to follow EU rules - without ever having any say in the legislation (the Norway effect) or stop trading.

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them.

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By *anejohnkent6263 OP Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

tk u all many points of view.....once Britain leaves the eu.....Greece goes skint as it will never pay its loans...mrs turtle (head up arse) gets beat in german elections....and france goes right wing....then Europe will fall apart anyway .....job done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep out to fuck the eu is done

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

You think?

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them."

As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

China, USA, Japan, Australia and many other countries all around the world trade with the EU, they are not part of the EU and they don't have any say on bonkers EU legislation.

So would the USA, China, India, Russia, etc, etc have to abide by the Neonicitinoids example you just put forward to then?

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"I'm sorry ....... ....... are you actually saying that we are the entire EU's biggest export market?

Please...........

Unless of course you have FACTS and figures to contradict the official figures from the ONS?"

No, but your facts miss the point.

See my other post on trade. You are right that trade is protected for two years, but that is when the fun starts. As soon as the EU changes any trade rules we will need to either comply, face tariffs or stop trading with them. It's called the Norway effect - we have to implement most EU standards withou having any say in what they are.

On trade to none-EU countries - well it's hardly surprising as the EU has negotiated free trade deals with a number of countries over the past few years and (with the exception of China,Indonesia and Nigeria I think) is in the process of or about to start negotiating free trade agreements with every other one of the top 25 world economies outside the EU.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

You think?

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them.

As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

China, USA, Japan, Australia and many other countries all around the world trade with the EU, they are not part of the EU and they don't have any say on bonkers EU legislation.

So would the USA, China, India, Russia, etc, etc have to abide by the Neonicitinoids example you just put forward to then? "

Well, The U.S. Is trying hard not to abide by these in the TTIP negotiations. We (the EU) are trying not to let that happen, and also to, inter alia, continue our ban on GM crops. Of course, as the EU we have scale on our side in the negotiations, so we will see. Of course in an analogous position, the UK would lack that scale in a negotiation with the U.S.

China and India absolutely have to obey our rules ( have you ever seen a food plant in the developing world producing food for the EU market - you wouldn't call our rules 'bonkers' then. Just very impressive. Just think what the EU does to ensure imported food meets our high standards).

RUssia of course is currently under international sanctions, but yes it would too.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm sorry ....... ....... are you actually saying that we are the entire EU's biggest export market?

Please...........

Unless of course you have FACTS and figures to contradict the official figures from the ONS?

No, but your facts miss the point.

UK is the world's 5th largest economy, and London is one of the world's major financial centres. The EU sells more to us than we buy from them, in short they need us more than we need them. It would be foolish of them to strike a bad deal after Brexit as it would be to their own detriment. We are more than capable of leaving and negotiating our own independent trade deals like the USA, China, Australia, India, Russia, Japan, etc, etc, etc, etc.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway". "

Nice easy sound bite, wasn't it.

You are an intelligent guy though, so I'm sure you have thought about it.

So, no we aren't. We don't have the fjords, the oil or the school system.

When it comes to being outside the EU and wanting to trade with the EU, we are pretty similar. We are quite a lot larger economically - with more to loose too. Can you imagine how Frankfurt would be rubbing their hands if we leave putting new financial regulation in place to disadvantage London and incentivise companies to move jobs to Germany.

I can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

You think?

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them.

As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

China, USA, Japan, Australia and many other countries all around the world trade with the EU, they are not part of the EU and they don't have any say on bonkers EU legislation.

So would the USA, China, India, Russia, etc, etc have to abide by the Neonicitinoids example you just put forward to then?

RUssia of course is currently under international sanctions, but yes it would too."
.

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

UK is the world's 5th largest economy"

That sounds impressive until you realise the top 2 economies are bigger than that bottom 181 combined.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"UK is the world's 5th largest economy, and London is one of the world's major financial centres. The EU sells more to us than we buy from them, in short they need us more than we need them. It would be foolish of them to strike a bad deal after Brexit as it would be to their own detriment. We are more than capable of leaving and negotiating our own independent trade deals like the USA, China, Australia, India, Russia, Japan, etc, etc, etc, etc."

Well, I disagree that we are more important to them than they are to us. You should really use percentages of total trade to justify that argument, not absolute figures.

But anyway I agree with you, except you are missing the point still. It's not about what happens when we do our exit trade deal. That's just where the fun starts...think about it...can't sell insurance unless you are domicile do in the EU, can't sell food products in the EU unless they are processed to 'new' European standards....it will be a long list of rules we will have to follow.

Well nice idea about new trade deals with all these other countries. But why would you need to....the EU either already has them or is in the process of signing them. Sorry we (the EU) got there first.

And by the way, think about our inward investment. So much of it (and the jobs associated with it ) likely to dry up if we no longer have unrestricted access to the EU. Why would people invest here instead of in the real deal inside the EU?https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ukti-inward-investment-report-2014-to-2015/ukti-inward-investment-report-2014-to-2015-online-viewing

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

UK is the world's 5th largest economy

That sounds impressive until you realise the top 2 economies are bigger than that bottom 181 combined. "

And the EU even without us is over 20% of global GDP compared to our less than 3%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

Nice easy sound bite, wasn't it.

You are an intelligent guy though, so I'm sure you have thought about it.

So, no we aren't. We don't have the fjords, the oil or the school system.

I can."
.

They've been free to leave to Frankfurt for years and haven't for a very good reason...

London is the world capital of financial corruption!.

Like unlimited rehypothacation which is illegal everywhere (even wall St) except London, yes here we like to sell the same piece of shit constantly over and over making so much money we can say hey I'm to wealthy and powerful to be told what I can do!.

Well over and over until it goes tits up, but don't worry we can always fuck off to Frankfurt or Switzerland with all our illgotten gains, leaving the UK taxpayers to pick up all our debt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

You think?

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them.

As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

China, USA, Japan, Australia and many other countries all around the world trade with the EU, they are not part of the EU and they don't have any say on bonkers EU legislation.

So would the USA, China, India, Russia, etc, etc have to abide by the Neonicitinoids example you just put forward to then?

RUssia of course is currently under international sanctions, but yes it would too..

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

Like you say, it was illegal. Without the rules it wouldn't have been and they could have continued to put rubbish in food unchecked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/02/16 22:47:22]

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you had already closed your mind to any discussion.

Yours is quite a pathetic take on the issues. So, on the one hand, EU regulations are draconian and on the other when they are broken by criminals who are arrested and banned, well that's the EU's fault too.

Yeah right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The simple fact of the matter is the EU was not what we voted for. We voted for the EEC a simple tarriff free trading zone. Had it stayed like that then I would be a happy bunny. And as someone who used to drive trucks all over the Continent I saw the benefits the day those borders came down (tradewise). But the lying creeps behind the 'EU Project' used that as the Trojan Horse to get countries like the UK in. And then the creeping socialism and 'Union' shit started. And we were never asked again .... And those countries who were asked and said 'No Thanks' were told to give the right answer or the EU would take action. Bastards.

So here we are today:

* The fastest GDP growth for some 3 years in the G8.

* France and Italy about to be excluded FROM that G8.

* The 5th largest economy in the world.

* The 4th / 5th largest defence budget in the world.

* About to leapfrog Germany and become the 4th largest economy in the world and biggest in the EU.

* All the EU countries stagnate and fall away. And Germany dies under the tide of illegal migrants they stupidly let in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12068319/Booming-Britain-to-become-worlds-fourth-largest-economy-as-France-and-Italy-face-G8-exclusion.html

I have shown above the trade imbalances with the EU. So we are NOT Norway or Switzerland or Iceland or any other country so why do the 'In Lovers' keep droning on about them? We are the United Kingdom as described above and the EU will cut us a deal like they cut everyone a deal long before the two year guarantee is up. They will have to as the World Trade organisation will guarantee it. We also happens to have an exclusive relationship with the 52 other countries of our Commonwealth which the EU has forced us to neglect. So can someone please explain how we could not fight our corner outside the EU? Why we would have to accept some 'poor neighbour' deal?

The fact remains the EU will do EVERYTHING to keep us in and that will include all the dirtiest tricks this shabby bunch of failures can create. Cameron was right to demand change. He failed to demand enough and (it seems) is accepting a watered down version. I regret to say shame on him if he does and shame on him for playing the 'fear' card so early. It does him no credit. But come the referendum the politicians and spin boys and the EU can all fuck off. WE will decide our future. And if we have the guts of the country that built the biggest Empire in the world and stood up to Fascism for 3 years on our own we will say 'Enough!' and leave this monstrosity of socialist failure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, I disagree that we are more important to them than they are to us. You should really use percentages of total trade to justify that argument, not absolute figures.

Wow, you make the EU sound like a real financial/business dynamo!...

With the exception of Germany (although wait till Deutsch bank explodes) everybody else is in recession.

Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, France, Sweden, they could be described as basket cases with massive debts.

Still there's hungry, Poland, Romania,Czech rep, Baltic's... Oh yeah there fully inline with EU policy on Muslim immigrants

...

Still we can paper over that and just give Turkey 5 billon a year (or whatever they demand) to "deal with it"...

As for inward investment of jobs I'm pretty sure Italy Spain France Sweden Portugal and Greece would love some... There unemployment levels are through the roof

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"The simple fact of the matter is the EU was not what we voted for. We voted for the EEC a simple tarriff free trading zone. Had it stayed like that then I would be a happy bunny. And as someone who used to drive trucks all over the Continent I saw the benefits the day those borders came down (tradewise). But the lying creeps behind the 'EU Project' used that as the Trojan Horse to get countries like the UK in. And then the creeping socialism and 'Union' shit started. And we were never asked again .... And those countries who were asked and said 'No Thanks' were told to give the right answer or the EU would take action. Bastards.

So here we are today:

* The fastest GDP growth for some 3 years in the G8.

* France and Italy about to be excluded FROM that G8.

* The 5th largest economy in the world.

* The 4th / 5th largest defence budget in the world.

* About to leapfrog Germany and become the 4th largest economy in the world and biggest in the EU.

* All the EU countries stagnate and fall away. And Germany dies under the tide of illegal migrants they stupidly let in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12068319/Booming-Britain-to-become-worlds-fourth-largest-economy-as-France-and-Italy-face-G8-exclusion.html

There are many things other than trade negotiations that you don't understand then.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them."

Stop trading, it's not as much as people think, we send our stuff via Europe to other markets.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

So here we are today:

* The fastest GDP growth for some 3 years in the G8.

* France and Italy about to be excluded FROM that G8.

* The 5th largest economy in the world.

* The 4th / 5th largest defence budget in the world.

* About to leapfrog Germany and become the 4th largest economy in the world and biggest in the EU.

* All the EU countries stagnate and fall away. And Germany dies under the tide of illegal migrants they stupidly let in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12068319/Booming-Britain-to-become-worlds-fourth-largest-economy-as-France-and-Italy-face-G8-exclusion.html

I agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you had already closed your mind to any discussion.

Yeah right."
.

No you said they were smashing I said...

there not quite as smashing as you say

... Closed minds are those that can't take responses to they're statements

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"Wow, you make the EU sound like a real financial/business dynamo!...

With the exception of Germany (although wait till Deutsch bank explodes) everybody else is in recession.

Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, France, Sweden, they could be described as basket cases with massive debts.

Still there's hungry, Poland, Romania,Czech rep, Baltic's... Oh yeah there fully inline with EU policy on Muslim immigrants

...

Still we can paper over that and just give Turkey 5 billon a year (or whatever they demand) to "deal with it"...

As for inward investment of jobs I'm pretty sure Italy Spain France Sweden Portugal and Greece would love some... There unemployment levels are through the roof"

Spellchecker really doesn't like Hungary does it?

Dynamo? Well it is over 20% of the world's GDP, even without us.

But, yes, you are right. Vote to leave the EU and those countries will be getting a lot of jobs transferred to them from us. You can be proud that you are doing your bit to solve The EU's unemployment problem.

Meanwhile, back home.......

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"[And if we have the guts of the country that built the biggest Empire in the world and stood up to Fascism for 3 years on our own we will say 'Enough!' and leave this monstrosity of socialist failure."

Is it even possible to read that without humming the theme-tune to Dad's Army?

I'm dreading June

"You know, we beat them at football once too"....

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

I'm sorry. I didn't realise you had already closed your mind to any discussion.

Yeah right..

No you said they were smashing I said...

there not quite as smashing as you say

... Closed minds are those that can't take responses to they're statements"

Interesting take on the discussion. Our words are there in the thread. Others can judge for themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The scare stories put out by the pro Euro camp are unfortunately for them having the opposite effect in general.

You think?

As someone said on the radio this week the EU is the Hotel California - 'you can check out, but you can never leave' unless of course you want to stop trading with them.

As was said on Question time last week "we are not Norway".

China, USA, Japan, Australia and many other countries all around the world trade with the EU, they are not part of the EU and they don't have any say on bonkers EU legislation.

So would the USA, China, India, Russia, etc, etc have to abide by the Neonicitinoids example you just put forward to then?

RUssia of course is currently under international sanctions, but yes it would too..

What like illegal horse mean meat found in 25% of supermarket meals?.

Shipped around freely from Romania to Bulgaria on to Ireland and hungry and onto a findus curry in Rotherham

Like you say, it was illegal. Without the rules it wouldn't have been and they could have continued to put rubbish in food unchecked."
.

Wholesale fraud compounded by the ability to ship it around from country to country from abotouir to packing plant, back to another country for resale, until everyone losses track of where it's from and what it is!

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By *anejohnkent6263 OP Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

i cant wait for turkey to join the eu in 3 yrs time.....cheap hookey fake goods flood across Europe...cant wait..is that legal...seems the eu wont care about that little problem

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Well, I disagree that we are more important to them than they are to us. You should really use percentages of total trade to justify that argument, not absolute figures.

Wow, you make the EU sound like a real financial/business dynamo!...

With the exception of Germany (although wait till Deutsch bank explodes) everybody else is in recession.

Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, France, Sweden, they could be described as basket cases with massive debts.

Still there's hungry, Poland, Romania,Czech rep, Baltic's... Oh yeah there fully inline with EU policy on Muslim immigrants

...

Still we can paper over that and just give Turkey 5 billon a year (or whatever they demand) to "deal with it"...

As for inward investment of jobs I'm pretty sure Italy Spain France Sweden Portugal and Greece would love some... There unemployment levels are through the roof"

Just wait until Jean Claude D*unker allows Turkey to join the EU in a few years time, then see what happens.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"i cant wait for turkey to join the eu in 3 yrs time.....cheap hookey fake goods flood across Europe...cant wait..is that legal...seems the eu wont care about that little problem"

Oh, the EU cares very much. Just like any other country who wants to join, Turkey will have to demonstrate that it complies with all EU standards before it is allowed in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""
.

Yeah the EU love making sure countries stick to the rules! Greece anyone..

No that's disingenuous!... Ok just look at the 3% and 60% figures and see who breaks them, yep the EU does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I will be happy to eat a bent or curved banana.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just wait until Jean Claude D*unker allows Turkey to join the EU in a few years time, then see what happens.

Jean-Claude Juncker can't approve the accession of a state to the EU,that has to be done through the EU's democratic process: approved unanimously by the Council and must receive the consent of the European Parliament.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Just wait until Jean Claude D*unker allows Turkey to join the EU in a few years time, then see what happens.

Appears that wasn't detailed enough for someone so should be corrected to Jean-Claude D*unker and his corrupt cronies on the Council and in the undemocratic EU commission and the EU parliament.

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