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Penal reform?

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By *atcouple OP   Couple
over a year ago

Suffolk - East Anglia

Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hehehe... "penal"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Army custody isn't a suitable comparison I feel.

Truth is the vast majority of offenders have social and educational issue's and the evidence suggests that imprisonment doesn't really rehabilitate.

An attempt to make offenders feel relevant and of value to society, may work in the case of those who don't pose a violent risk to the public?

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By *otsoSnowWhiteWoman
over a year ago

My Ice Castle! South Wales


"Hehehe... "penal"

"

I giggled too

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I'm baffled by your first question!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Hate to break it to people but they won't let mass murders out during the week they will risk assess each prisoner and those who usually get let out are those who have not committed violent crimes or sexual it's usually those who have been convicted of the lower end crimes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?"

He had a plot?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Military custody where the inmate has not been given a 'dishonourable discharge' at the end of the term is about basically retraining the person to have them back into their unit so the onus is on them to achieve that..

known a couple of guys who did a 56 day stint in Colchester and went on to be promoted once back in their unit after a while..

its not a comparison i would use in relation to the civilian model..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

having done time myself during my slightly wild youth I really don't know how to approach the subject.if you can be too soft,give them all PlayStations...if your too hard your breaking some euro law!!!

but.....to get these guys educated is a great idea,but to let them out during the week??!!not really prison is it.when I done prison time I just found it boring.all that time under lock and key could be put to get use,getting these guys educated,leaving prison with qualifications.

I know they do some educating but there's so much more they could do with there time...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"having done time myself during my slightly wild youth I really don't know how to approach the subject.if you can be too soft,give them all PlayStations...if your too hard your breaking some euro law!!!

but.....to get these guys educated is a great idea,but to let them out during the week??!!not really prison is it.when I done prison time I just found it boring.all that time under lock and key could be put to get use,getting these guys educated,leaving prison with qualifications.

I know they do some educating but there's so much more they could do with there time..."

Great idea that. Plus look at all the qualifications you can get online. They wouldn't necessarily need teachers for so many subjects. But mentors with experience in counselling are very important, I feel.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby


"Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?"

If prisoners are let out during the week, does this mean that there'll be empty beds during the week and not enough beds at weekends? Maybe those prisoners could be prisoners on a continental shift system, so they do, say, 7 days in Nick out of every 14, whilst other prisoners are doing the other 7 days... that way, all the beds would get used all the time, and they could all do their fair share of weekday a.d weekend prison attendance, and would only get half of their weekends fucked up being in prison.

We could even maybe give them some benefits to make their lives easier on the days they're not inside.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?"

He wants to let them out to go to college and uni, plus throw in a few magic tricks and make things disappear!

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

That prime minister eh, oh whatever next

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?

If prisoners are let out during the week, does this mean that there'll be empty beds during the week and not enough beds at weekends? Maybe those prisoners could be prisoners on a continental shift system, so they do, say, 7 days in Nick out of every 14, whilst other prisoners are doing the other 7 days... that way, all the beds would get used all the time, and they could all do their fair share of weekday a.d weekend prison attendance, and would only get half of their weekends fucked up being in prison.

We could even maybe give them some benefits to make their lives easier on the days they're not inside."

Try the other thread it will make yer weep lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh Deep Joy .. another Thread worth some thoughtful contributions and we get the usual 'Have a pop at Cameron' crap.....

I have done time in a very hard nick (Horfield Bristol for those that know) and inside was easy once you worked out who ran the nick. And it wasn't the Screws. It was what you lost on the outside (like my family and job and my self respect) that was the hard bit. And what I learned was if the price was right I could do more time and so prison was more of a deterrent before than after. And there is the big lesson. We need to make the time inside very hard. Like Colchester where they break the man down to re-build him. Give any new Con to the Red Caps for 3 months and they will be very grateful to get back into a regime where they earn their privileges and understand they have NO rights until they are earned. Two 'Rs'.. Rights and Responsibility.

What I saw was people who actually preferred the order of life inside where everything is organised for you to the chaos of real life. They would leave on a Friday with £65 in the sky, get pissed Friday night and Saturday, be skint Sunday and put a brick through a window and get arrested....sorted! Most of the guys were on drugs out of despair and lack of self worth. So if someone can come up with an idea that keeps them in touch with reality, their families and gives them a better education and a sense of self worth it gets my support.

And if people want to lecture me on being an ex-con well jog on I heard it all ...And no I never have broken the law since.

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field


"Has our pm lost the plot?"

Did he ever have it to loose?


"Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?"

Prahaps if he did logical thinking instead of thinking about feeding the rich and shafting the fodder, he might notice that there are a lot of 'abandoned ' ex-military who would do a sterling job keeping prisoners busy for 12 hours a day to either straighten them out a bit or make prison a lot less sedate and boring- all with the added bonus of giving the ex-servicemen a job, a new purpose and a better future too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Prahaps if he did logical thinking instead of thinking about feeding the rich and shafting the fodder, he might notice that there are a lot of 'abandoned ' ex-military who would do a sterling job keeping prisoners busy for 12 hours a day to either straighten them out a bit or make prison a lot less sedate and boring- all with the added bonus of giving the ex-servicemen a job, a new purpose and a better future too"

I have to admire how you turn a very good and thoughtful Thread into a cheap shot exercise. Well done. So when exactly did Cameron 'feed the rich' then? Given the highest paid 3,000 people in the UK pay more income tax than the bottom nine million, almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total.

And ever thought that maybe the Service people might just not want to go into another uniform?

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"

Prahaps if he did logical thinking instead of thinking about feeding the rich and shafting the fodder, he might notice that there are a lot of 'abandoned ' ex-military who would do a sterling job keeping prisoners busy for 12 hours a day to either straighten them out a bit or make prison a lot less sedate and boring- all with the added bonus of giving the ex-servicemen a job, a new purpose and a better future too

I have to admire how you turn a very good and thoughtful Thread into a cheap shot exercise. Well done. So when exactly did Cameron 'feed the rich' then? Given the highest paid 3,000 people in the UK pay more income tax than the bottom nine million, almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total.

And ever thought that maybe the Service people might just not want to go into another uniform?"

Ha ha so funny what an own goal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Oh Deep Joy .. another Thread worth some thoughtful contributions and we get the usual 'Have a pop at Cameron' crap.....

I have done time in a very hard nick (Horfield Bristol for those that know) and inside was easy once you worked out who ran the nick. And it wasn't the Screws. It was what you lost on the outside (like my family and job and my self respect) that was the hard bit. And what I learned was if the price was right I could do more time and so prison was more of a deterrent before than after. And there is the big lesson. We need to make the time inside very hard. Like Colchester where they break the man down to re-build him. Give any new Con to the Red Caps for 3 months and they will be very grateful to get back into a regime where they earn their privileges and understand they have NO rights until they are earned. Two 'Rs'.. Rights and Responsibility.

What I saw was people who actually preferred the order of life inside where everything is organised for you to the chaos of real life. They would leave on a Friday with £65 in the sky, get pissed Friday night and Saturday, be skint Sunday and put a brick through a window and get arrested....sorted! Most of the guys were on drugs out of despair and lack of self worth. So if someone can come up with an idea that keeps them in touch with reality, their families and gives them a better education and a sense of self worth it gets my support.

And if people want to lecture me on being an ex-con well jog on I heard it all ...And no I never have broken the law since."

Poor old Dave - good job he has you to stick up for him eh?

Actually, I was rather concerned when I heard that the Government were planning "reforms" in the prison service (cutbacks have slashed staff numbers by nearly a third since 2010), but these seem well considered proposals and I await developments with interest. This Government have some rather interesting things in the area of offender health and mental health in the criminal justice system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Poor old Dave - good job he has you to stick up for him eh? "

Well there you go. Someone tries to give an informed view and offer a solution and what do we get? the smart arsed DC kickers. Just as I said ... Hijacking Threads used to get you banned years ago ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Prahaps if he did logical thinking instead of thinking about feeding the rich and shafting the fodder, he might notice that there are a lot of 'abandoned ' ex-military who would do a sterling job keeping prisoners busy for 12 hours a day to either straighten them out a bit or make prison a lot less sedate and boring- all with the added bonus of giving the ex-servicemen a job, a new purpose and a better future too

I have to admire how you turn a very good and thoughtful Thread into a cheap shot exercise. Well done. So when exactly did Cameron 'feed the rich' then? Given the highest paid 3,000 people in the UK pay more income tax than the bottom nine million, almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total.

And ever thought that maybe the Service people might just not want to go into another uniform?

Ha ha so funny what an own goal"

Oh really Mr clever clogs? Care to explain how? I give a view that few others on here have had or would admit to because I feel this is an important issue and all you can do is add fuckwit one liners ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The OP raises an interesting issue of some importance and worth a decent response. Others see any Thread as a hijacking opportunity ...

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"

Prahaps if he did logical thinking instead of thinking about feeding the rich and shafting the fodder, he might notice that there are a lot of 'abandoned ' ex-military who would do a sterling job keeping prisoners busy for 12 hours a day to either straighten them out a bit or make prison a lot less sedate and boring- all with the added bonus of giving the ex-servicemen a job, a new purpose and a better future too

I have to admire how you turn a very good and thoughtful Thread into a cheap shot exercise. Well done. So when exactly did Cameron 'feed the rich' then? Given the highest paid 3,000 people in the UK pay more income tax than the bottom nine million, almost one-third of income tax payers contribute less to the Exchequer than the top 3,000 earners - equivalent to 0.01 per cent of the total.

And ever thought that maybe the Service people might just not want to go into another uniform?

Ha ha so funny what an own goal

Oh really Mr clever clogs? Care to explain how? I give a view that few others on here have had or would admit to because I feel this is an important issue and all you can do is add fuckwit one liners ... "

Is fuckwit one word?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a victim of serious crime and i don't break the law, they can do with them what they want for all I care, it's never going to affect me. They can have crims on chain gangs breaking rocks or shovelling shit for 18 hours a day in a sewerage farm and i still wouldn't care. Take away all their rights and make them work very hard for a living is the answer, they wouldn't be so keen to return to crime then.

Sky x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Poor old Dave - good job he has you to stick up for him eh?

Well there you go. Someone tries to give an informed view and offer a solution and what do we get? the smart arsed DC kickers. Just as I said ... Hijacking Threads used to get you banned years ago ... "

Did you read the rest of my post? I was praising the policy announced.

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"As a victim of serious crime and i don't break the law, they can do with them what they want for all I care, it's never going to affect me. They can have crims on chain gangs breaking rocks or shovelling shit for 18 hours a day in a sewerage farm and i still wouldn't care. Take away all their rights and make them work very hard for a living is the answer, they wouldn't be so keen to return to crime then.

Sky x"

Good point wrong thread

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Poor old Dave - good job he has you to stick up for him eh?

Well there you go. Someone tries to give an informed view and offer a solution and what do we get? the smart arsed DC kickers. Just as I said ... Hijacking Threads used to get you banned years ago ...

Did you read the rest of my post? I was praising the policy announced.

"

Yes I did and I must apologise for not making it clearer my comments were aimed at others .. My phrasing could heave been better. Sorry.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

He's probably not got a clue.

The reform should be based on evidence of what truly works. Prison should be about rehabilitation - it generally isn't. It's not a particularly good system but privatization and decimation of the probation and other services doesn't work in favor of a good society.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Poor old Dave - good job he has you to stick up for him eh?

Well there you go. Someone tries to give an informed view and offer a solution and what do we get? the smart arsed DC kickers. Just as I said ... Hijacking Threads used to get you banned years ago ...

Did you read the rest of my post? I was praising the policy announced.

Yes I did and I must apologise for not making it clearer my comments were aimed at others .. My phrasing could heave been better. Sorry."

No problem - I may well be a hand-wringjng leftie but it's immensely valuable to hear the views of someone who has successfully navigated the CJ system.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Military custody where the inmate has not been given a 'dishonourable discharge' at the end of the term is about basically retraining the person to have them back into their unit so the onus is on them to achieve that..

known a couple of guys who did a 56 day stint in Colchester and went on to be promoted once back in their unit after a while..

its not a comparison i would use in relation to the civilian model.."

In the late 70's I escorted a prisoner to the MCTC. My hour stay while they processes the poor sod was enough to make me NEVER want to visit the place again! I think that if civilian prisoners were treated like that today the Government would find it's self in court on human rights and torture charges!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's caused a lot of social problems with his other 'reforms' already.

Be interesting to see who profits from there prisons, ie- who will be running them and who has invested in them.

Can't leave a link coz it's a politics page and not the sun or some other shitty page but here's something i found rather inmteresting:

At the request of the justice select committee, it was asked to separate out the data for private and public prisons.

It categorically disproves the claims of private sector efficiency.

Twenty-three per cent of the prison budget is spend on private prisons. But private firms don't run a quarter of the prisons. In fact they run just 13 of the 124 prisons and National Offender Management Service-run immigration removal centres – or 11%. At the end of June there were 15,393 prisoners in private prisons, just 18% of the total prison population

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By *aneandpaulCouple
over a year ago

cleveleys

The trouble is like a lot of them they have never been in the real world like us

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By *abphilMan
over a year ago

sheffield


"Has our pm lost the plot?

He wants to reduce reoffending rates (today's news) but happy to consider letting prisoners out during the week? Would this make prison and crime less desirable?

Perhaps he should a take a lesson from army custody where offending rates are in single figures?

If prisoners are let out during the week, does this mean that there'll be empty beds during the week and not enough beds at weekends? Maybe those prisoners could be prisoners on a continental shift system, so they do, say, 7 days in Nick out of every 14, whilst other prisoners are doing the other 7 days... that way, all the beds would get used all the time, and they could all do their fair share of weekday a.d weekend prison attendance, and would only get half of their weekends fucked up being in prison.

We could even maybe give them some benefits to make their lives easier on the days they're not inside."

Yes and savings could be made on prison staff and food brilliant tell mr c now!

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