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What would you say is fair..???

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

Let's say you'd agreed with a landlord that, prior to taking a tenancy on a 3bed semi, you would decorate it for him - to a professional standard - prior to the tenancy because he couldn't get decorators himself as all the reliable ones have a 3 month waiting list (!!)

Let's say you suggested negotiating an initial rent-free period at the start of the tenancy as payment for all your efforts.

Remember - it's a 3bed semi, so we're talking entrance hall, living room, kitchen, rear hall (in this case - bit of an unusual layout), stairway, landing, bathroom and three bedrooms - all rooms average size. Painting the ceilings and coving; make good the walls and paint; sand down and 'undercoat and top coat' to all the woodwork throughout.

I have an idea in mind what I would look for as 'fair compensation' for all that - and I'm supplying all the paint, filler etc too.

What would you, fellow fabbers, think was a fair rent-free period in payment for all that....??

I've got a genuine and 'live' reason for asking which I might expand on depending on what you all think....

Thanks for reading.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd quite simply prepare an itemised quote, showing materials and labour cost and then simply ask for the total to be offset against the rent..reasonable day labour charges range from £80 - £120 per day unless in a really high rent area such as London.

Possibly call a few painter/decorators and ask their day rate

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....

What is the going rate for a 3 bed semi in the area?

How long are you looking to rent it for?

I'd expect a reduced price as I know how much decorators charge...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Get quotes from a couple of professionals, this should reflect a fair price, no?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Life isn't fair.

Bad things happen to people for no reason ALL the time

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"Get quotes from a couple of professionals, this should reflect a fair price, no?"

I have got a quote from a mate of mine who is a professional. Not saying what it is - yet - but I nearly fell over!!!

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???"

I think till house was decorated or I'd seen a sample of the work I'd discuss reductions in rent then...but depends when house was bought, how much it needs decorating and if it still had a mortgage on it...

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"What is the going rate for a 3 bed semi in the area?

How long are you looking to rent it for?

I'd expect a reduced price as I know how much decorators charge... "

The rent for this particular property is £925pcm.

Any tenancy is technically an assured length of six months only, after that it's one months notice from tenant, two months from the landlord. I was actually planning on being in this house for 3-4 years.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

2 to 3 months I would say.

A professional job throughout a three bed house would cost at least two thousand pounds I reckon.

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???

I think till house was decorated or I'd seen a sample of the work I'd discuss reductions in rent then...but depends when house was bought, how much it needs decorating and if it still had a mortgage on it... "

Standard of work - above average for a professional (and that's according to a professional who's seen it... and offered me a job!)

House was bought in 1989 and, as far as I am aware, there is no mortage on it.

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"2 to 3 months I would say.

A professional job throughout a three bed house would cost at least two thousand pounds I reckon. "

Interesting... the quote I have had had is 'somewhat higher' than that...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???"

Unfortunately its near impossible to estimate how many days work would be required without a detailed brakedown of current state of walls etc, room sizes and type of work to be carried out.

Is there wallpaper to be stripped? If so what are the walls like underneath? Do doors and skirts need glossing? What about ceilings? Windows?

Will the finished job be comparable to that done by a professional?

Maybe get a few quotes, calculate the average and give free rent to that value is the best advice I can give

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

I would never in a million years make any such agreement.

If the house isn't in the state I want it before I move in then I'd look for somewhere else.

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???

Unfortunately its near impossible to estimate how many days work would be required without a detailed breakdown of current state of walls etc, room sizes and type of work to be carried out.

Is there wallpaper to be stripped? If so what are the walls like underneath? Do doors and skirts need glossing? What about ceilings? Windows?

Will the finished job be comparable to that done by a professional?

Maybe get a few quotes, calculate the average and give free rent to that value is the best advice I can give"

The living room and front hall required the existing lining paper to be steamed off. All the walls have required filling as it would seem none of this has been done since the house was built in 1968. The walls in the living room and ent. hall were particularly bad (200 spots of filler in one wall of the living room alone). Yes, the finished job WILL be comparable to that of a full-time professional:- a full-time professional has seen it and has offered me a job as a result! So at least one silver lining. He has also told me what his quote would have been based on the condition of the place when I went in to start (which was .. 'bad' let's just say that. No replastering required, but much of the decoration had last been done 25 years ago, then the last tenant didn't clean for 3 years. etc etc. so a 'full job' required.

Is that enough..??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

1 month.. Unless at the end of the tenancy you where going to re do to the professional standard again. If you are living in it... You are the one getting the benefit from it. That along with wear and tear.....

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

[Removed by poster at 05/02/16 10:28:35]

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!

Okay... a little more info...

I have had a quote from a full time pro of.... £3,500 plus materials. He based that on an average of 200 man hours (2.5 weeks work for two people) @ £17.50/hr to redecorate an average 3bed semi in this area.

I've put the scenario to other people and, without knowing any of the figures involved, more than half have said 3 months OR half rent for six months. Then we can either go our separate ways or have a new agreement at full rent and go from there.

I was just interested if others on here placed a similar value (not price/cost) on it to people I've already put the situation to.

Let's just say, it's now in the hands of my solicitor....

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Be carful I know a few that has done this was given a 6 month tenancy to complete works and the 6 months was rent free. After the 6 months ended the landlord issued said person with a section 21 notice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???

Unfortunately its near impossible to estimate how many days work would be required without a detailed breakdown of current state of walls etc, room sizes and type of work to be carried out.

Is there wallpaper to be stripped? If so what are the walls like underneath? Do doors and skirts need glossing? What about ceilings? Windows?

Will the finished job be comparable to that done by a professional?

Maybe get a few quotes, calculate the average and give free rent to that value is the best advice I can give

The living room and front hall required the existing lining paper to be steamed off. All the walls have required filling as it would seem none of this has been done since the house was built in 1968. The walls in the living room and ent. hall were particularly bad (200 spots of filler in one wall of the living room alone). Yes, the finished job WILL be comparable to that of a full-time professional:- a full-time professional has seen it and has offered me a job as a result! So at least one silver lining. He has also told me what his quote would have been based on the condition of the place when I went in to start (which was .. 'bad' let's just say that. No replastering required, but much of the decoration had last been done 25 years ago, then the last tenant didn't clean for 3 years. etc etc. so a 'full job' required.

Is that enough..??"

So for a single worker 3 weeks work? At £135 a day (mid range for the day rates you've given) is about £2k plus materials.

If just paint and no paper, depending on paint used, no more than £200.

Rent you gave at just under £1k a month so given its a less formal job than employing a decorator, there's tax and ni benefits to you both as no money exchanging hands, I'd say 2 months was fair

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"Be carful I know a few that has done this was given a 6 month tenancy to complete works and the 6 months was rent free. After the 6 months ended the landlord issued said person with a section 21 notice "

Oh I know he can/could do that, hence I wanted to be 'repaid' by way of an initial free rent period.

He's offered what he called... 'paint money'.... Solicitor's handling it now anyway.

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"The house in question is in NW Kent well within the London commuter belt, so day rates for most trades are more like £120-150...

Just interested in what YOU think doing a job like that is worth..?

If it helps... at a rent of £925pcm, bearing in mind you only get 6 months tenure on any Assured Short-term Tenancy (AST), you'd need to be paid back within that period as you could be given notice by the Landlord at 4 months in (2 months notice).

If it were repaid in 'free months;, how many months would you think was fair?

1? 2? 3? more..???

Unfortunately its near impossible to estimate how many days work would be required without a detailed breakdown of current state of walls etc, room sizes and type of work to be carried out.

Is there wallpaper to be stripped? If so what are the walls like underneath? Do doors and skirts need glossing? What about ceilings? Windows?

Will the finished job be comparable to that done by a professional?

Maybe get a few quotes, calculate the average and give free rent to that value is the best advice I can give

The living room and front hall required the existing lining paper to be steamed off. All the walls have required filling as it would seem none of this has been done since the house was built in 1968. The walls in the living room and ent. hall were particularly bad (200 spots of filler in one wall of the living room alone). Yes, the finished job WILL be comparable to that of a full-time professional:- a full-time professional has seen it and has offered me a job as a result! So at least one silver lining. He has also told me what his quote would have been based on the condition of the place when I went in to start (which was .. 'bad' let's just say that. No replastering required, but much of the decoration had last been done 25 years ago, then the last tenant didn't clean for 3 years. etc etc. so a 'full job' required.

Is that enough..??

So for a single worker 3 weeks work? At £135 a day (mid range for the day rates you've given) is about £2k plus materials.

If just paint and no paper, depending on paint used, no more than £200.

Rent you gave at just under £1k a month so given its a less formal job than employing a decorator, there's tax and ni benefits to you both as no money exchanging hands, I'd say 2 months was fair"

... and that's exactly the period I was looking for. He grudgingly offered 'paint money'.. I've actually spent 173 hours/just over four weeks @ 40hr week on it (the pro's estimate was 200 man hours) and I wasn't far off finishing it, so all in line there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is, without anything in writing it would be hard to prove any agreement was in place at all.

I never do any work without a detailed quote signed by the customer - a lesson I learnt early on

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

It cost me £800 to have my flat painted and I live in an old tenement stair in Edinburgh with one bedroom, tiny kitchen, living room and the hall being painted.

I'd say a couple of months free rent is probably about right?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Be carful I know a few that has done this was given a 6 month tenancy to complete works and the 6 months was rent free. After the 6 months ended the landlord issued said person with a section 21 notice

Oh I know he can/could do that, hence I wanted to be 'repaid' by way of an initial free rent period.

He's offered what he called... 'paint money'.... Solicitor's handling it now anyway."

Hardly being repaid because if he issues a section 21 you won't be able to live in the property you have done up I personally do not do any work on rented properties in not assisting the landlord to get a gain from it.

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By *hoenixman OP   Man
over a year ago

Where men are men, and sheep are nervous...!


"Be carful I know a few that has done this was given a 6 month tenancy to complete works and the 6 months was rent free. After the 6 months ended the landlord issued said person with a section 21 notice

Oh I know he can/could do that, hence I wanted to be 'repaid' by way of an initial free rent period.

He's offered what he called... 'paint money'.... Solicitor's handling it now anyway.

Hardly being repaid because if he issues a section 21 you won't be able to live in the property you have done up I personally do not do any work on rented properties in not assisting the landlord to get a gain from it. "

Fortunately I haven't signed the tenancy agreement. This has all blown up in the last week, and I got straight onto my solicitor. Basically the solicitor has advised not to enter into a tenancy with him and issue an invoice for the work carried out so far. We are, again fortunately, still Owner and Contractor legally so best to get it settled (probably in the small claims court) and move on... hey ho... another little learning experience...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Be carful I know a few that has done this was given a 6 month tenancy to complete works and the 6 months was rent free. After the 6 months ended the landlord issued said person with a section 21 notice

Oh I know he can/could do that, hence I wanted to be 'repaid' by way of an initial free rent period.

He's offered what he called... 'paint money'.... Solicitor's handling it now anyway.

Hardly being repaid because if he issues a section 21 you won't be able to live in the property you have done up I personally do not do any work on rented properties in not assisting the landlord to get a gain from it.

Fortunately I haven't signed the tenancy agreement. This has all blown up in the last week, and I got straight onto my solicitor. Basically the solicitor has advised not to enter into a tenancy with him and issue an invoice for the work carried out so far. We are, again fortunately, still Owner and Contractor legally so best to get it settled (probably in the small claims court) and move on... hey ho... another little learning experience..."

Did he ask you to do everything that you have dne though?

Or was he expecting.. A lick of paint..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unless I was desperate to get the property I would never rent somewhere that needed that much work. And if I was desperate to live there I'd begrudgingly accept that the landlord calls the shots. And I wouldn't enter into an argument likely to lose me the tenancy after 6 months having done the work because the landlord has decided I'm a pain in the arse.

It's not fair but as someone that rents I learnt a longtime ago that keeping landlords sweet leads to long tenancies. Landlords like an easy life

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By *ancs MinxWoman
over a year ago

Burnley

A free month in my humble opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Legally I'm unsure how this would go. Because I would never enter into such an arrangement, I would have git a quote from you and paid you for the work, providing it was a sensible quote for a non professional, and then you could have spent that money on rent, it would have been in my mind that you are going to be living in that property, so why would I pay so much to decorate your home, whether it'd still be my house or not, I would digest only doing cash transactions from now on, because there is enough ambiguity, to make for a long and expensive court case, and who would be judging the standard of the work.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

When I rented a one bedroom flat the landlord was supposed to have it painted and re floored prior to me moving in. They failed to get this done so I did the work in exchange for two months Rent At approx 600 per month (I paid for the paint and laminate)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"2 to 3 months I would say.

A professional job throughout a three bed house would cost at least two thousand pounds I reckon.

"

And the rest. He's supplying materials too. A hall,stair and landing is over £1000 on it's own,without materials.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blimey; I'm glad I don't live down south. Had pretty much the same job done on a large 4 bed this summer for £2,200.

Sounds a bit complicated, solicitor seems to best way to go.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"

Sounds a bit complicated, solicitor seems to best way to go. "

What she said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mine was the opposite way round to this...I decorated it prior to tenants moving in then wrote it into contract that if the tenants decorated it has to be changed back prior to moving out

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By *cltdCouple
over a year ago

moira/belfast

If you are staying for 3/4 years then you are benefitting from the decoration not the landlord. So as a landlord I would buy the paint and say knock yourself out.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I would recommend that you quote for the work and if he wants it done, do it and get paid.

Then I would pay the rent seperately.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It depends on a few things really, as do any contractual terms. How quickly the job has to be done, forms of redress etc and the definition of Reasonable standard'. I'd nail the contract terms before looking to price.

And the number of days free rent that are provided depends upon the rent price in relation to the value of the decoration contract.

Rent at £800 per month, with a decoration contracts value of £1200 could be viewed as c. 6 weeks. But I'm imagining that there would be some negotiation upon this.

It's less realistic to assume that an amateur decorator could earn a reward equal to a professional.

In the circumstances if both sides are desperate then I'd negotiate for rent weeks equal to 50% of the decorating rate. Must cover all costs plus a minimum of 25% on top.

I'd not go for this though as it confuses the relationship between service provider and customer.

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