FabSwingers.com forum: EU

By *van Arden OP Man
over a year ago

Coleford, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire.

Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?"

Arguments to both causes. However we seem to have diluted our sway in the EU. Choices that have serious affects on the UK need to be given to other countries. I am in favour of an exit.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

It won't be as big a sacrifice for us if we exit. As long as we have the trade agreements in place like other European countries we could come out ahead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay in.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"In"

Out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In

Out"

Shake it all about?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"In

Out"

In, out, you shake it all about!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

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By *ucky1Man
over a year ago

a straightjacket

I'd love to see us exit but cannot see it ever happening

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Time to leave the EU IMO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It won't be as big a sacrifice for us if we exit. As long as we have the trade agreements in place like other European countries we could come out ahead"

why would the Eu give us favourable trade agreements if we tell them to fuck off?

The Eu is about more than just trade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO. "

why?

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

The uk shares a land border with irish republic....what happens there...uk isolates itself from eu members ....will it tighten trade and movement with republic....yet terms of good fri agreement regarding citizen ship will be in dissaray....back to the days of troops at the border.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The uk shares a land border with irish republic....what happens there...uk isolates itself from eu members ....will it tighten trade and movement with republic....yet terms of good fri agreement regarding citizen ship will be in dissaray....back to the days of troops at the border....."

and worse.....

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

and worse....."
way worse...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/02/16 21:23:47]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why? "

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU. "

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things... "

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early "

The EU has been likened to a burning building or a sinking ship, better to get out now before the building collapses or the ship sinks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early "

60 years old and counting. ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

The EU has been likened to a burning building or a sinking ship, better to get out now before the building collapses or the ship sinks. "

Except it is like neither.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things... "
the point i made about borders was what happens with border with irish republic....will there be border stops and troops on border....remember what happened last time there was border enforcement

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

get our borders back and make our own laws etc etc

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about. "

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Let us for example say we would be financially neutral after an exit,

It would for me sadly illustrate

xenophobia which I feel is a negative reflection of humanity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things... "

Getting out of the EU would give us zero control over our rights at work places, standards of living, our human rights, food standards and so forth, as politicians would be able to dismantle this if we get out of EU. It's the EU that ensures fair game in trade as well as human rights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But then I'm just a good for nothing EU immigrant..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

best do some research rather than post nonsense like the above.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

this^^^^

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?"

Brexit is the way to go, Cameron's so called renegotiation is an absolute joke. As Jacob Reese Mogg said yesterday the thin gruel of the deal has been watered down further by the EU. A poll by sky news showed 69% of brits reject Cameron's new deal while 31% thought it was a good deal. The great British public have seen through it for the sham that it is.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

best do some research rather than post nonsense like the above.

I do plenty of research on this subject, think you need to look up a few facts yourself.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. "
that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote"

Spot on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote"

the irish have referendums as they have a written constitution. In the UK we don't and parliament is sovereign.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote"

MEP's in reality have very little power. It is the unelected commission that holds all the power in the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 04/02/16 21:49:10]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So what is it people want from the EU that isn't provided? Not even Cameron can give an example...

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote

the irish have referendums as they have a written constitution. In the UK we don't and parliament is sovereign. "
well then westminister needs to get a reform too and get a constitution to be ratified by the people cause the current system is not serving the people and compounding and denying people the right of proper represention

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

I know how I will vote in the referendum based on my knowledge and reasons but it is my decision. Everybody should make there own minds ups based on how they feel it will affect it them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

. It is the unelected commission that holds all the power in the EU.

more nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ..."
.

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

funny thing is the UK is a sovereign state already and we have control over our borders. What do you think those queues at the airport are all about.

Incorrect, we don't have control of our borders because of the EU's free movement of people rules. We are powerless to stop EU citizens coming here. We are not fully sovereign because many of our laws are made in Brussels and Westminster has no choice but to abide by them. that freedom of movenent works both ways...thousands of brits live and work in other eu states. Britain had meps to represent brits in brussels so britain does have a voice but when ukip are voted into brussels to scupper things are britains being properaly represented....another thing i find curious is britains feel they dont have a say etc etc....why dont brits get to vote on eu threaties etc....in ireland we vote on every threaty ...i cant count how many times ive been to polls to ratify or reject threaties....perhaps its a constutional matter as why brits dont get to vote

the irish have referendums as they have a written constitution. In the UK we don't and parliament is sovereign. well then westminister needs to get a reform too and get a constitution to be ratified by the people cause the current system is not serving the people and compounding and denying people the right of proper represention"

we have a constitution it's just not written.

The us shows the mess you get with a written one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?"

a long way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?"

I want to stay in. Here's a random political fact.

Do you know that out of work benefit is 0.7% of the welfare budget. So take a pound in 1 p's, then grab a penny, cut it into ten pieces throw 3 away and what you are left with is what helps people find work and pay for there house whilst doing so. And that's out of one part of the budget.

My dad always says it takes a lot of money to be more than 3 pay checks from losing your mortgage. So next time people talk of scrougers and 'immigrants' not refugees. Think about those 100 pennies, and those seven bits.

I admire Germany, France and now Spain. Not because of their refugee policy. But because They are progressive and more left than our country. So yeah! I'm what I consider an idealist so I'm got staying.

Sorry getting ranty everyone is most welcome to disagree x x x x

P.S. Germans don't breed they are having a semi graphic crisis that's why they took so many refugees. Google it x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things... the point i made about borders was what happens with border with irish republic....will there be border stops and troops on border....remember what happened last time there was border enforcement"
.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

a long way."
.

That's an opinion, one of many!

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

Does anyone who wants an 'out' on the basis of migration realise that at present, out immigration controls in France stop loads of refugee/economic migrants (depending on how you perceive the issue). If we leave Europe, the French are unlikely to stop these migrants getting on to the ferries or into the Eurotunnel site. Once on this side, we would have to imprison or house those that make it pending their deportation...which will take ages.

Leaving Europe will increase the flow of people entering without permission....not strengthen our borders as the French will be more than happy to see the back of 'The Jungle' and other camps.

I hate the EU but is is the least evil of the options.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

"
funny you should say that...was looking at negotiatons in london...all i could think was about 1922 delegation to london to negotiate irelands exit from uk...the referendum....and sadly civil war....history does go full circle but just hope people learn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out.....Camoron has gone in to negotiatons asking for Sod all...and come out with even less!

Total Joke!

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

"In

Out

In, out, you shake it all about!"
Thats what its all about comeing in and comeing out the EU I ment...

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Out.....Camoron has gone in to negotiatons asking for Sod all...and come out with even less!

Total Joke!"
what happens post exit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

funny you should say that...was looking at negotiatons in london...all i could think was about 1922 delegation to london to negotiate irelands exit from uk...the referendum....and sadly civil war....history does go full circle but just hope people learn"

We don't have a land border with the EU.....haven't you noticed the channel? It's the big wet thing between us and France!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out, I'm against unelected oligarchies like the EU commission.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

Apart from full control of our own borders and regaining full control of our own sovereignty again, among other things...

The European bill of human rights has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

It was drawn up many years before the EU came into existence in any shape or form.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

". It is the unelected commission that holds all the power in the EU.

more nonsense. "

The people of Europe do not elect the commission. That is a fact. There is also no mechanism in place for the people of Europe to remove the commission. The EU and it's institutions are very undemocratic in nature.

If all you can do is simply write "nonsense" without backing it up with anything it's just making you look foolish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Out.....Camoron has gone in to negotiatons asking for Sod all...and come out with even less!

Total Joke! what happens post exit"

We keep the trade deals as we are massively a net IMPORTERS from the EU and they won't want to loose that. Nothing else from Europe is with having as it costs us a fortune and ties us in knots.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Out, I'm against unelected oligarchies like the EU commission."
and the house of windsor of course

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By *FuckWellMan
over a year ago

Coventry

In my point of view, EU was created to play a bigger role in the world...

If you compare USA, Russia, China, India - those are very big countries. Obviously, they have different economies, politics and armies... There is a simple question to as - in case of war, would you prefer be a part of bigger group or single country?

2nd point - economics. Bigger market creates opportunities... Why do we care so much about China? Because it is big. I believe bigger countries can do more. So, there is an advantage to be part of EU. Obviously, there are risks as well. However, it doesn't matter if we/you are part of EU - there always be some problems. It's easier to resolve them in a group then alone.

That's my view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

Sir I may have just signed my political death warrant.

Your lucky I've just signed my actual death warrant!.

Unions never ever fucking worked without a completely bloody civil war of epic proportions!

Those who think the EU will provide peace are defunct of any historical facts!, eventually you run out of people to ally with and the whole house of cards comes crumbling down around your ears!

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"In my point of view, EU was created to play a bigger role in the world...

That's my view."

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

a long way..

That's an opinion, one of many!"

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

a long way..

That's an opinion, one of many!

My opinion is its pretty close to the end of its life anyway. It's been lurching from one crisis to the next for many years now, and anti EU parties gain more popularity and more votes with each passing election in many EU countries. "
yes but going back to a fragmented europe with fragmented alliances and paranoid alliances built on mistrust had europe at war with itself for centuries and two of the worlds largest wars.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In my point of view, EU was created to play a bigger role in the world...

That's my view."
.

If you only care about markets then the last one you want to be in is fucking Europe, it's imploding on a grand scale...

Go and have a union with Asia if you want active markets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

a long way..

That's an opinion, one of many!

My opinion is its pretty close to the end of its life anyway. It's been lurching from one crisis to the next for many years now, and anti EU parties gain more popularity and more votes with each passing election in many EU countries. yes but going back to a fragmented europe with fragmented alliances and paranoid alliances built on mistrust had europe at war with itself for centuries and two of the worlds largest wars....."
.

Wars built on unions and alliances... There'd have been no first world war if we hadn't been in alliances!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?

a long way..

That's an opinion, one of many!

My opinion is its pretty close to the end of its life anyway. It's been lurching from one crisis to the next for many years now, and anti EU parties gain more popularity and more votes with each passing election in many EU countries. yes but going back to a fragmented europe with fragmented alliances and paranoid alliances built on mistrust had europe at war with itself for centuries and two of the worlds largest wars......

Wars built on unions and alliances... There'd have been no first world war if we hadn't been in alliances!"

The first world war was caused because countries were land grabbing in the name of nationality and attempt of assertion as great powers. We are not in the same situation now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally torn. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives however.

I would like to see an even playing field however. Right now the UK seem to be the only ones who play by the rules. The others talk it but don't act. France being a prime example.

My gut is to stay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm really fond of my human rights, which the current government and media have been manipulating in favour of the corporations getting a free ride in the UK and the lawmakers' friends getting away with murder.

If we leave, we won't be bound by EU laws relating to employment and human rights and any government could change them without consent so long as they controlled the courts.

In order for industry to return to the UK to the standard good enough for independence, poverty would become synonymous with secondary industry again. This is probably also why they want to send off the NHS, to reduce social responsibility to a minimum.

The re-asserting of the classes, knowing your place. Britain becoming nationalist and increasingly isolated because of its political views. Becoming ever more colonialist and grasping all the while so that we don't fade into history rather than joining Europe in finding economic stability without the need for capitalism and war...

Well, fuck! Let's leave anyway and keep our fingers crossed it isn't completely disasterous that the world's fifth wealthiest country fails even harder to look after its own without the European Court to tell them to stop fucking with peoples' lives!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

The bottom line of this debate is will we be better off in or out.

I would suggest that the truth of the matter is that the majority of us will not benefit from leaving Europe. But those who wish to remove the 'shekels' (they are the EU workers protections and the like) could well win the argument because they own and control the media. So we will do as we are told and vote out. A bit like turkeys voting for Christmas!

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I'm really fond of my human rights, which the current government and media have been manipulating in favour of the corporations getting a free ride in the UK and the lawmakers' friends getting away with murder.

If we leave, we won't be bound by EU laws relating to employment and human rights and any government could change them without consent so long as they controlled the courts.

All the big corporations and the political elite which you just moaned about want us to stay in the EU. So I guess you are on their side then?

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

60 years old and counting. ....

Rome was 1200 years old..

Didn't stop it disappearing up it's own arsehole...

Nothing has ever lasted forever.

The real question is how close to the end are we?"

Great point. But are you talking about the United Kingdom or the EU?

I say that as some Brexit views seem to be based on a presupposition that the UK and a Westminster government are perfect and immutable structures. But they have only existed for 300 years - and let's face it, Westminister government is pretty rubbish for much of our population - if you live in the metropolitan north or Scotland for example.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

If we leave, we won't be bound by EU laws relating to employment and human rights and any government could change them without consent so long as they controlled the courts.

All the big corporations and the political elite which you just moaned about want us to stay in the EU. So I guess you are on their side then? "
as much as i hate to admit it....its the big corporations and big business who employ us house us and feed us....we are slaves to the capitalist model....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All the big corporations and the political elite which you just moaned about want us to stay in the EU. So I guess you are on their side then? "

Funny, as I recall, Cameron and his buddies are now backpedalling on wanting to leave in the first place. Why the sudden u-turn (and yet with zero conviction)?

And those corporations rely on Europe for cheaper industry, not to mention low paid labour like the Poles.

I can be for Europe and not for capitalism. That doesn't make me obliged to take a side.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

Think about what will be best for your children's future. They are the ones that will live with the consequences of the decision.

The UK is a successful country and could operate fine by itself. But we are on the verge of a future world run by big economic blocks - the U.S. and NAFTA countries, China, India (with a third of the world's population between them) and probably an integrated, federal Eurozone. And that at a time when the world has to face climate change, 10 billion people on the planet and a huge energy crisis looming.

Do you want your kids to be restricted in a small medium ranking country with limited influence, or part of one of the world's big economic blocks with the right to live and work anywhere across Europe?

For me, a very simple choice.

A time for us to look towards the future, not backwards at the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think about what will be best for your children's future. They are the ones that will live with the consequences of the decision.

For me, a very simple choice.

A time for us to look towards the future, not backwards at the past.

This too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As this is a swinging website I'm surprised that so much of the analysis focuses on secondary or insignificant matters like the economy.

The overwhelming truth is that many of the most attractive women in this country are immigrants in their 20's and damn fine filly. The average attractiveness in this country would drop dramatically if you sent all the immigrants home.

I like my eye candy. Vote 'in'.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?"

It was a trading agreement.. That's what people voted to opt into in the 70s.. Not federalism by stealth.

Not opposed to it, per se but as it stands.. It seems like a burocracy that is eroding the sovereignty of member nations insidiously.. I'm opposed to it in its current form.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

Sir I may have just signed my political death warrant.

Your lucky I've just signed my actual death warrant!.

Unions never ever fucking worked without a completely bloody civil war of epic proportions!

Those who think the EU will provide peace are defunct of any historical facts!, eventually you run out of people to ally with and the whole house of cards comes crumbling down around your ears!"

Bold assertion. So there is no future in the Union of the United Kingdom then....and Scotland wants to remain in the EU.

Your argument is looking like troops on the boarder both here and in Ireland...

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"As this is a swinging website I'm surprised that so much of the analysis focuses on secondary or insignificant matters like the economy.

I like my eye candy. Vote 'in'. "

Brilliant an insightful analysis! I'm with you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think about what will be best for your children's future. They are the ones that will live with the consequences of the decision.

For me, a very simple choice.

A time for us to look towards the future, not backwards at the past.

This too!

"
.

People who say "this" are usually as devoid of facts as the person who uttered the nonsense in the first place.

To mention climate change and the right to fly around Europe on weekend breaks and work is... Just so fucking stupid its beyond belief!....

Europe the EU, China, NAFTA... Your clueless to the reality of climate change and quite frankly to say the best cure for it, is 300 million people flying and driving ever further distances on fucking 21st century commutes is ridiculous to the extreme!...

The only thing that can save the world from climate change and the inevitable self sustaining feed back loops is an immediate 25% cut in the western GDP output..

And honestly that might not be enough... Once that 2 degree threshold has gone, humans are just on a joyride to oblivion..

And no before you say it... The EU had done fuck all to help the situation in thirty fucking years we've known about it!.

You wanna "belive" joining some pretty union will save you from some future disaster, go right ahead and sign up, but don't tell me that the eu is saving us from fucking climate change

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By *uny1122Man
over a year ago

longeton

I m a asian I wish u out ,then u see where u r ,with out eu you are big ziro ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We have nothing to gain by getting out of the EU.

No there'll be police on the border but more likely customs agents...

Troops were on the border because some British citizens was bombing and killing people to leave a union they didn't wish to be in!

Mmm life comes full circle

Sir I may have just signed my political death warrant.

Your lucky I've just signed my actual death warrant!.

Unions never ever fucking worked without a completely bloody civil war of epic proportions!

Those who think the EU will provide peace are defunct of any historical facts!, eventually you run out of people to ally with and the whole house of cards comes crumbling down around your ears!

Bold assertion. So there is no future in the Union of the United Kingdom then....and Scotland wants to remain in the EU.

Your argument is looking like troops on the boarder both here and in Ireland..."
.

Anybody with any rasionality of any sense can see the UK union has been under strain for fucking decades!... You wanna belive it's all lardy da, fine but I'd argue the referendum that narrowly was passed after a 300 year union shows it ain't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As this is a swinging website I'm surprised that so much of the analysis focuses on secondary or insignificant matters like the economy.

I like my eye candy. Vote 'in'.

Brilliant an insightful analysis! I'm with you."

I'm expect David Cameron to use it as his trump card if the debates get a bit heated and he needs to go nuclear and someone's ass.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for."

Agree, Sweden is a net exporter of beautiful women and Britain should welcome everyone of them.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for."

What an absurd straw man argument..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD"

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial "

If UK women are so grotesquely ugly and insufferable , why not move to Sweden..?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial "

Haha, i wonder how the commercial would sound. Sign me up :D

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for.

Agree, Sweden is a net exporter of beautiful women and Britain should welcome everyone of them. "
Yes and you are right there as well

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By *uny1122Man
over a year ago

longeton

Women in UK not to beautiful r sexy ,eu ,r franch grils more sexy then any body xx

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By *ongton loversCouple
over a year ago

stokeontrent

"Should we Brexit or hang on in there ?"

No brainer Out!

Can someone tell us a valid reason to actually stay in!

Our parents voted on a commen market,

Not a united states of Europe!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial

If UK women are so grotesquely ugly and insufferable , why not move to Sweden..?

Well that makes no sense at all. Why move there when we can import them here!?

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 04/02/16 23:53:25]

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial

If UK women are so grotesquely ugly and insufferable , why not move to Sweden..?

Well that makes no sense at all. Why move there when we can import them here!? "

"Import them"?

Sounds like you're talking about meat..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD"
Hi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial

If UK women are so grotesquely ugly and insufferable , why not move to Sweden..?

Well that makes no sense at all. Why move there when we can import them here!?

"Import them"?

Sounds like you're talking about meat..

Shocking isn't it. Anyone would think I was being facetious.

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By *uny1122Man
over a year ago

longeton

Reading all post no body want to leave eu ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x."

Crickey it's like 793 all over again. Vikings coming over here to take sexual advantage of us helpless Brits...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x."

Hello to you too. I wonder if there are any more swedes on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x.

Crickey it's like 793 all over again. Vikings coming over here to take sexual advantage of us helpless Brits..."

Is that said with fear or are you making an offer?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x.

Crickey it's like 793 all over again. Vikings coming over here to take sexual advantage of us helpless Brits..."
That is right, the Vikings are on the rise again. Stonehenge meeting

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 05/02/16 00:02:51]

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XD

You may get a call from the 'yes' campaign asking you to tell this story on a TV commercial

If UK women are so grotesquely ugly and insufferable , why not move to Sweden..?

Well that makes no sense at all. Why move there when we can import them here!?

"Import them"?

Sounds like you're talking about meat..

Shocking isn't it. Anyone would think I was being facetious. "

Or were you?

Humour often belies truth.

Anyway, out. People can still enjoy continental cuisines / cultre without being tethered to a shambolic bureaucratic federalist union.. Slowly dragging member nations into a dysfunctional, chaotic.. mire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x.

Hello to you too. I wonder if there are any more swedes on here. "
Yes I wonder the same, we have one from Denmark I think here. Not many from Scandinavia, but would be fun wouldn't it to have a handful of them here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a Swedish woman having emigrated to england to be with my prince charming, I can only agree! XDHi there. I am Swedish too, nice to see few Swedish using the forum too x.

Crickey it's like 793 all over again. Vikings coming over here to take sexual advantage of us helpless Brits...

Is that said with fear or are you making an offer?

It wasn't a complaint

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Stay in. We are much stronger as an economy inside. We potentially stand to have job losses and lose investment here if we go.

I will look further into the financials later, before voting.

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By *ongton loversCouple
over a year ago

stokeontrent

"Stay in. We are much stronger as an economy inside. We potentially stand to have job losses and lose investment here if we go.

I will look further into the financials later, before voting. "

Here in North Staffordshire JCB reckon there better off without the EU...

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for."

Putin already knows how piss weak the EU is. He annexed Crimea from Ukraine and the EU did nothing but apply a few economic sanctions and stop a few Russian billionaires flying to Europe. Putin must be grinning like a Cheshire cat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for

I expect he is happy most days. I bet he gets good poontang daily.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for

I expect he is happy most days. I bet he gets good poontang daily. "

Based on recent revelations.. Mr putins eye wanders down a rather unsavoury ... Underage.. ..Avenue.

Tall tales of Russian staw/ boogeyman aside... And the musings of foreign nationals residing in the UK with their own agendas not withstanding ..

The eu is an expensive, inefficient burocracy ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This debate of leaving Europe is showing countries like Russia how weak EU is. Staying in I vote for

I expect he is happy most days. I bet he gets good poontang daily.

Based on recent revelations.. Mr putins eye wanders down a rather unsavoury ... Underage.. ..Avenue.

Oh! I didn't hear that. That's nasty. Not really what I had in mind regarding "good poontang" - I was thinking more of Anna Kournikova look-a-likes...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why is it called brexit? shouldn't it be ukexit?

I have yet to see a single actual realisable benefit for leaving.

Immigrants come from all over, not just Europe, and they still get in, so leaving means we still get lots of immigrants (which I am happy with, so long as they come to work and live with us)

the commissions that people moan about a lot, are civil servants, who are not elected in the UK either.

no EU law becomes uk law unless the UK government accepts it, and the ones they accepted and now want out of are minimum wage, limited hours and other simular workers and human rights.

So what's in it for me if we ukexit?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Just watching press preview on sky news, some EU polls in tomorrow's papers. ...

The Times...

Leave - 45%

Stay - 35%

Daily Express says on the front page a staggering 92% want out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We need to get off the sinking ship that is now the EU. It has regulated its way into irrelevance, invented the only currency without political union and tied itself into a bureaucratic stranglehold. The Euro is dying on its feet because the EU so needed to have it alongside their Anthem and Flag that it allowed Greece and others to fabricate a pack of lies to allow them in. And see how THAT turned out. Even WE were dragged into paying £86 Million in bale outs for a currency we are not part of. And lest we forget the EU accounts have not been signed off for about 10 years. Any company doing that would have been closed down.

Where the USA killed Chinese steel dumping in 2 weeks it will take the EU 3 months by which time its too late. So much for being able to look after our own industries.

Those who say the EU needn't give us a trade deal are wrong. Its in the Lisbon Treaty that any departing Nation keeps the trading arrangements already in place. Plus the WTO rules protect us. And understand this: The UK is the EU's biggest export market. The EU is now a diminishing UK export market and holds us back from the rest of the world.

Anyone who thinks this country which is one of the fastest growing economies in the G8 despite being in the stagnating and failed EU needs to think carefully:

Non-EU Exports for November 2015 are £13.9 billion +4.5% on October

EU Exports for November 2015 are £11.4 billion -3.7% on October.

In EU trade the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £7.9 billion.

We pay some £9 Billion a year, £173 Million a week, £25 Million a DAY, every day, to the EU. We are the second biggest nett contributor to the EU and yet we get no more sway on decisions than Poland which is the biggest nett beneficiary. So this week when the Poles start lecturing us about our re-negotiation just remember who is paying who here. Just to put that annual figure into context we have built two world class carriers for £7.5 Billion.

so the EU are NOT going to try and jack duties up or we just hammer them back. And does anyone think for a minute BMW and VW are going to allow anyone to screw up their biggest market in Europe?

Regardless of how Cameron does (and I think he is genuinely trying hard) I am voting OUT....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it called brexit? shouldn't it be ukexit?

I have yet to see a single actual realisable benefit for leaving.

Immigrants come from all over, not just Europe, and they still get in, so leaving means we still get lots of immigrants (which I am happy with, so long as they come to work and live with us)

the commissions that people moan about a lot, are civil servants, who are not elected in the UK either.

no EU law becomes uk law unless the UK government accepts it, and the ones they accepted and now want out of are minimum wage, limited hours and other simular workers and human rights.

So what's in it for me if we ukexit? "
.

I think it's because parts of the UK are not technically in the EU, like Jersey and isle of Mann... Hence the brexit.

That's an educated guess though, so don't hold me to it

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"We need to get off the sinking ship that is now the EU. It has regulated its way into irrelevance, invented the only currency without political union and tied itself into a bureaucratic stranglehold. The Euro is dying on its feet because the EU so needed to have it alongside their Anthem and Flag that it allowed Greece and others to fabricate a pack of lies to allow them in. And see how THAT turned out. Even WE were dragged into paying £86 Million in bale outs for a currency we are not part of. And lest we forget the EU accounts have not been signed off for about 10 years. Any company doing that would have been closed down.

Where the USA killed Chinese steel dumping in 2 weeks it will take the EU 3 months by which time its too late. So much for being able to look after our own industries.

Anyone who thinks this country which is one of the fastest growing economies in the G8 despite being in the stagnating and failed EU needs to think carefully:

Non-EU Exports for November 2015 are £13.9 billion +4.5% on October

EU Exports for November 2015 are £11.4 billion -3.7% on October.

In EU trade the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £7.9 billion.

so the EU are NOT going to try and jack duties up or we just hammer them back. And does anyone think for a minute BMW and VW are going to allow anyone to screw up their biggest market in Europe?

Regardless of how Cameron does (and I think he is genuinely trying hard) I am voting OUT...."

You've clearly thought about that. But try a little harder...

Here's what the Confederation of British Industry have to say on the matter.

http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Why is it called brexit? shouldn't it be ukexit?

I have yet to see a single actual realisable benefit for leaving.

Immigrants come from all over, not just Europe, and they still get in, so leaving means we still get lots of immigrants (which I am happy with, so long as they come to work and live with us)

the commissions that people moan about a lot, are civil servants, who are not elected in the UK either.

no EU law becomes uk law unless the UK government accepts it, and the ones they accepted and now want out of are minimum wage, limited hours and other simular workers and human rights.

So what's in it for me if we ukexit? .

I think it's because parts of the UK are not technically in the EU, like Jersey and isle of Mann... Hence the brexit.

That's an educated guess though, so don't hold me to it

they're not part of the UK

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

". It is the unelected commission that holds all the power in the EU.

more nonsense.

If all you can do is simply write "nonsense" without backing it up with anything it's just making you look foolish. "

That's right, the commission consists of one representative from each national government. The UK government provides our representative courtesy of the prime minister's powers. Just like he appoints the foreign secretary. Power over the European Commission is in the hands of the people who appoint them - the democratically elected heads of state.

Meanwhile the strategic direction of the EU is set by the elected heads of state participating in the European Council. They act by achieving consensus - that means all agreeing when they democratically decide to reach a decision.

Or perhaps it's the undemocratic Council of the European Union that you object to, because that's responsible for approving European law and consists of Government ministers from all the EU states. It works in terms of majorities of the vote where the UK has one eighth of the votes available, not on twenty eighth.

Then there's the European Parliament, which works in terms of majority voting to approve or reject proposals from the commission.

Of course you would prefer that we move to operate under the WTO, where we'd have one vote in 162.That's run by the unelected Director General of the WTO and his 600 unelected bureaucrats in Geneva.

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By *oyce69Man
over a year ago

Driffield

Well the USSR didn't survive and I doubt the EU will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Imagine all the people...

The EU courts have just ruled, to the dismay of our illustrious government, that travelling to work, IS WORK!

In.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it called brexit? shouldn't it be ukexit?

I have yet to see a single actual realisable benefit for leaving.

Immigrants come from all over, not just Europe, and they still get in, so leaving means we still get lots of immigrants (which I am happy with, so long as they come to work and live with us)

the commissions that people moan about a lot, are civil servants, who are not elected in the UK either.

no EU law becomes uk law unless the UK government accepts it, and the ones they accepted and now want out of are minimum wage, limited hours and other simular workers and human rights.

So what's in it for me if we ukexit? .

I think it's because parts of the UK are not technically in the EU, like Jersey and isle of Mann... Hence the brexit.

That's an educated guess though, so don't hold me to it

they're not part of the UK"
.

British isles, crown dependants...

I'm not sure there in the EU now except through UK agreements..

I dunno to be honest,I was just guessing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it called brexit? shouldn't it be ukexit?

I have yet to see a single actual realisable benefit for leaving.

Immigrants come from all over, not just Europe, and they still get in, so leaving means we still get lots of immigrants (which I am happy with, so long as they come to work and live with us)

the commissions that people moan about a lot, are civil servants, who are not elected in the UK either.

no EU law becomes uk law unless the UK government accepts it, and the ones they accepted and now want out of are minimum wage, limited hours and other simular workers and human rights.

So what's in it for me if we ukexit? .

I think it's because parts of the UK are not technically in the EU, like Jersey and isle of Mann... Hence the brexit.

That's an educated guess though, so don't hold me to it

they're not part of the UK.

British isles, crown dependants...

I'm not sure there in the EU now except through UK agreements..

I dunno to be honest,I was just guessing

As part of the UK joining the EU there was something called protocol 3 of the treaty. That says that the Isle of Man and Channel Islands are part of the Customs Union and are essentially within the Single Market for the purposes of trade in goods, but are third countries (ie outside the EU) in all other respects. They aren't represented in the European parliament for example.

Meanwhile voters in Gibraltar do get to vote for MEPs and their votes count towards the South West of England (and Gibraltar) constituency.

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By *ittie4UCouple
over a year ago

Watford

"People who say "this" are usually as devoid of facts as the person who uttered the nonsense in the first place.

To mention climate change and the right to fly around Europe on weekend breaks and work is... Just so fucking stupid its beyond belief!....

The only thing that can save the world from climate change and the inevitable self sustaining feed back loops is an immediate 25% cut in the western GDP output..

And honestly that might not be enough... Once that 2 degree threshold has gone, humans are just on a joyride to oblivion..

And no before you say it... The EU had done fuck all to help the situation in thirty fucking years we've known about it!.

You wanna "belive" joining some pretty union will save you from some future disaster, go right ahead and sign up, but don't tell me that the eu is saving us from fucking climate change"

Dave,

Are you always this rude or were you just drinking too much before posting?

On climate change. Actually saving the world is nothing to do with reducing GDP. It is everything to do with reducing (actually near eliminating) fossil fuel use. Today, GDP level and fossil fuel use are linked; your error, of course, is to assume they always must be. That is not the case. And FYI, a 25% reduction in emissions in the western developed world won't come close to what is required. By 2050 world energy demand is expected to double, so we'll need to be in the 75%+ reduction levels.

On the EU, you seem to believe that the only impact that the EU has had on climate change has been some increase in citizens travel arrangements. That's a bit silly, isn't it. If you would like to be less 'clueless' (your choice of language) on the issues, you might want to research the EU's leadership from Bali (2007) to Paris (2015).

Now, go wash your mouth out. Your Mum wouldn't be impressed!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You've clearly thought about that. But try a little harder...

Here's what the Confederation of British Industry have to say on the matter.

http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/ "

Ah yes the CBI. So this will be the organisation of whom associate members like the Freight Transport Association 13,000, the Federation of Master Builders 9,500 and the Road Haulage Association 8,100 deliberately seek to employ foreign labour to the detriment of UK labour and who increase their profits thanks to the UK taxpayer subsidising their low wages with Tax Credits. So yeah I can see why THAT shower of shit loves the EU.

And that document says exactly what I have just taken apart. The scare story about how beneficial the Single Market is and how we will lose it if we leave. Well the Lisbon Treaty guarantees fair treatment (if you trust the EU to hold to Treaties it signs). And maybe I am wrong but didn't we have a perfectly good trading arrangement BEFORE we joined and even AFTER we joined The Common Market. I never voted to join ANY European Union. Where its all gone tits up is the political slow creeping of Socialist Agendas, the massive increase of unelected power and the alienation of so many States.

And the CBI does NOT speak for every one of its members. The National Farmers Union are no fans at all. As this below points out the UK is a net importer of agri-food products, totalling £39.6bn in 2014. We import nearly twice as many agri-food products from the other EU countries than we export. So we leave and we buy more from our own farmers rather than foreign CAP subsidised produce. And maybe pay them decent prices so they are able to employ British workers rather than cheap foreign migrants. (That will set the Lefties howling). And what has the Eu done for British agriculture? For instance Norway applies tariffs in the region of 267%-277% for EU cheeses, 344% for EU beef and 429% for EU sheepmeat. Magic!

https://www.nfuonline.com/697-15tl-eu-report-digital4/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Norway applies tariffs in the region of 267%-277% for EU cheeses, 344% for EU beef and 429% for EU sheepmeat. Magic!

https://www.nfuonline.com/697-15tl-eu-report-digital4/

So your reason to leave the EU is so you are forced to pay 267% to 429% extra tax on your weekly shopping bill, not to the farmers but to the taxman? why not just buy British at 10 to 20% premium and have your money go to the farmers instead?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"You've clearly thought about that. But try a little harder...

Here's what the Confederation of British Industry have to say on the matter.

http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our-global-future/factsheets/factsheet-2-benefits-of-eu-membership-outweigh-costs/

https://www.nfuonline.com/697-15tl-eu-report-digital4/

The CBI what a joke, I don't hear them speaking for our fishing industry either, whose fishermen have seen their livelihoods decimated by the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ..... The National Farmers Union are no fans at all. As this below points out the UK is a net importer of agri-food products...

https://www.nfuonline.com/697-15tl-eu-report-digital4/

That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all. It says that there are questions to be asked of both sides in the debate. What the foreward actually said was:

"The NFU has not taken a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ stance ahead of the conclusion of the renegotiation. At this stage we simply can’t. What we can do is assess what we know. The pros and cons of our existing relationship with the EU. However, it is impossible to measure the impact of being outside of the EU since we do not know the relationship the UK would have, nor the conditions under which its farmers would be expected to operate if we did leave the EU."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So your reason to leave the EU is so you are forced to pay 267% to 429% extra tax on your weekly shopping bill, not to the farmers but to the taxman? why not just buy British at 10 to 20% premium and have your money go to the farmers instead? "

I suspect you aren't dim so I guess you deliberately misinterpreted my words. It isn't my ONE reason. I have very many. And those tariffs are what our farmers pay to Norway to export their goods not me as a consumer. On second thoughts maybe you are dim...My whole point was INSIDE the EU we get hammered from OUTSIDE because the EU doesn't give a shit. So therefore OUTSIDE we can negotiate as WE choose for OUR benefit. And I did actually say (if you had read it) that we would then also be able to pay the farmers better prices and buy more from our own....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all. "

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple."

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or you could try the case study in the same NFU report that tells us something about how British farming would survive without free movement of labour:

"“Cobrey Farms is a family partnership in South Herefordshire which grows asparagus, blueberries, rhubarb, potatoes and arable crops. In 2015 we grew asparagus requiring 960 people to harvest, grade and pack. Asparagus production is highly labour intensive requiring people to cut the asparagus in fields by hand with limited ability to mechanise. The harvest labour is employed on a temporary seasonal basis with employees being housed on site. In 2015 52% were Bulgarians, 40% Romanian, 7.5% from other EU countries and only three UK nationals. It is critical to be able to employ people from other countries as we have been unable to fill positions from the UK labour market. In 2015 we received 44 direct UK applications which we tried to recruit, however once a job was offered all but three UK born people rejected the offer of work. Without the opportunity to work with foreign nationals we would be unable to grow these crops and harvest them successfully.”

That farm couldn't find British people who wanted to do this seasonal work.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence."

So the report confirms we have no control of our borders, and we can't have our own domestic immigration system while we are part of the EU. As I said earlier in the thread the only way we can regain full control of our borders is to leave the EU.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants. "

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Stay in. We are much stronger as an economy inside. We potentially stand to have job losses and lose investment here if we go.

I will look further into the financials later, before voting.

Here in North Staffordshire JCB reckon there better off without the EU... "

I think the Staffordshire economy needs special consideration, though JCB people haven't been famous for paying tax to the UK, supporting local services etc, as fully as others legally do.

Emotional feelings on this are one element but it's such a highly complex arrangement that we all have with Europe that I am comfortable only taking a decision after deep scrutiny of much of it.

It's also hard when we're surrounded by a right wing media which is influencing to leave at full power. Like it or not, most of us get strongly influenced by the media.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants. "

Maybe? Doubtful!

The workers are paid at least AMW. If British workers are happy to work for that then they would be already.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up."

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

You just quoted part of the report about the free movement of people being one of the four founding principles of the EU, entitling citizens of EU member states to live and work anywhere within the EU, which I directly responded to with my comment about no control over our own borders.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Stay in. We are much stronger as an economy inside. We potentially stand to have job losses and lose investment here if we go.

I will look further into the financials later, before voting.

Here in North Staffordshire JCB reckon there better off without the EU...

I think the Staffordshire economy needs special consideration, though JCB people haven't been famous for paying tax to the UK, supporting local services etc, as fully as others legally do.

Emotional feelings on this are one element but it's such a highly complex arrangement that we all have with Europe that I am comfortable only taking a decision after deep scrutiny of much of it.

It's also hard when we're surrounded by a right wing media which is influencing to leave at full power. Like it or not, most of us get strongly influenced by the media."

Well the quote from the leader of JCB has been carefully morphed by Eurosceptics over time. What the Dail Mail reported was:

"The boss of digger giant JCB says leaving the EU won’t ‘make a blind bit of difference’ to trade with Europe, it was reported last night.

Chief executive Graeme Macdonald said cutting ties with Brussels would be better for Britain if Prime Minister David Cameron fails to renegotiate membership".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085799/EU-exit-wouldn-t-hurt-trade-says-boss-JCB-Graeme-Macdonald.html

So he didn't say JCB would be better off but it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Hardly putting forward a strong case for leaving, was he?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

I'm discussing the NFU report which was what the other bloke gave to us as evidence of, well who knows what. You can feel free to ramble off and get lost on whatever topic you want. Did you bother to read the case study from a farmer from the same report? Do you want to destroy their business because of your fear of foreigners?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

I have read the report and as I just explained to you I was responding directly to the comment you just made on this thread. Everything I said was on topic (this is a thread about the EU, in case you forgot scroll back up and read the title of the thread again).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If you've read it, you'll be able to tell me exactly where "the report confirms we have no control of our borders, and we can't have our own domestic immigration system" which is what you said. Which page?

If it helps the NFU' statement on labour availability is on page 6. It's case study is on page 7, both as quoted above. Now tell me which page they say "we have no control of our borders, and we can't have our own domestic immigration system"?

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up."

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

"It's an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non UK born Labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU entitling citizens of EU member states and their families to live and Work anywhere in the EU."

So that is where it confirms we have no control over our own borders because we must abide by the EU free movement of people rules and we cannot implement our own domestic immigration system. Lastly you know full well which page it is on because you were the one who quoted that paragraph onto this thread in the first place.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

You mean "unionists" not "protestants ".. And why would that be, do tell?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

You mean "unionists" not "protestants ".. And why would that be, do tell?

This should be interesting.

*pulls up a deckchair, adjusts his panama and lights a cohiba*

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

You mean "unionists" not "protestants ".. And why would that be, do tell?

I meant what I said.

Because a lot of them told me they might do too when I told them I got mine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

You haven't read the report. It does not say anything about "confirming that we have no control over our borders". You can't quote where it says that because the NFU report does not say that. I'll help you a little bit more, the report is only 24 pages long (not 27 as I mistyped before)so less for you to struggle through to try and find what's not there.

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

"If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

You mean "unionists" not "protestants ".. And why would that be, do tell?

This should be interesting.

*pulls up a deckchair, adjusts his panama and lights a cohiba*"

Deckchair..? You'd look better in a hammock

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Maybe? Doubtful!

The workers are paid at least AMW. If British workers are happy to work for that then they would be already. "

It may come as a surprise to you but we can have a sensible level of immigration if we leave the EU (as opposed to the uncontrolled chaos we currently have now). We could implement an Australian style points based immigration system and only allow in those whose skills we need when there is a skills shortage in certain sectors of employment.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"If the UK votes to leave, there's gonna be an awful lot of Northern Ireland protestants applying for Irish passports with their tails between their legs.

You mean "unionists" not "protestants ".. And why would that be, do tell?

This should be interesting.

*pulls up a deckchair, adjusts his panama and lights a cohiba*

Deckchair..? You'd look better in a hammock

Mexican-style hammock

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Maybe? Doubtful!

The workers are paid at least AMW. If British workers are happy to work for that then they would be already.

What does that have to do with you saying British people WILL do agricultural jobs that they aren't currently doing when there is no evidence for such?

I'd love to see how you allocate skills points to unskilled agricultural workers to allow them in under the guise of skilled workers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Maybe? Doubtful!

The workers are paid at least AMW. If British workers are happy to work for that then they would be already.

Is that why the Colonist obliterated the native Aborigines? Not enough points.. Eh.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up."

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

Any rational normal thinking person can conclude from what what you quoted out of the report that the EU free movement of people principle means we can never have control over our own bordes as members of the EU.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Sadly this is turning into the same quality of debate that we had for Scottish Independence. The grass is not always greener on the other side as the SNP discovered - relying on. north Sea Oil revenues would have bankrupted the Scottish economy. Being part of a bigger economy (the UK), and an even bigger one (the EU) has mitigated the effect.

When somebody comes up with a cogent, rational manifesto that actually puts us all in a better place, then i'll consider it. Simply saying its all their fault and we want our ball back is not in the least bit convincing.

Of course the EU is flawed, but it appears to be a damn sight better than some mythical alternative...

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady

Personally I'd like that but it won't happen. It was an open border anyway up to '69/'70 except for gardia checking cars from Northern Ireland were taxed.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Personally I'd like that but it won't happen. It was an open border anyway up to '69/'70 except for gardia checking cars from Northern Ireland were taxed."

A lot can happen in a couple of generations, there might not be a border.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

Any normal, sane, rational person would tell you that when the authors of a report report something you can find those words in the text of the report. When the words aren't there, that isn't a conclusion drawn from the report. You repeatedly said that the NFU report said something that wasn't there because that suits your political viewpoint. You made it up.

The report did not reach a conclusion that you were trying to say it had. If anything it said on that point virtually the opposite.

Go on admit it - you lied and didn't even read it let alone understand it. Most definitely you tried to make up something that the NFU did not say.

You are one of the site experts on talking shite so I'll have to bow to you on that.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

The report did not reach a conclusion that you were trying to say it had. If anything it said on that point virtually the opposite.

Go on admit it - you lied and didn't even read it let alone understand it. Most definitely you tried to make up something that the NFU did not say.

You are one of the site experts on talking shite so I'll have to bow to you on that.

I never once said anywhere on this thread that I quoted part of the report. No idea why you have got it into your head that I did? You are the one who quoted part of the report. Feel free to scroll back up the thread and read the comments again. The confirmation that the report says we cannot control our own borders is the conclusion of the paragraph you quoted from the report about the EU's free movement of people principle. I didn't lie or make anything up I was merely commenting on what you posted on this thread. Once again everyone is free to scroll back up the thread and read it all again. You appear to be clutching at straws now because you yourself quoted part of the report about the EU'S free movement of people which showed everyone we can't control our borders and now you are back pedalling furiously to try to cover it up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

The report did not reach a conclusion that you were trying to say it had. If anything it said on that point virtually the opposite.

Go on admit it - you lied and didn't even read it let alone understand it. Most definitely you tried to make up something that the NFU did not say.

You are one of the site experts on talking shite so I'll have to bow to you on that.

This is getting really boring. You were telling people that the NFU report "confirms we have no control of our borders, and we can't have our own domestic immigration system". I'm merely pointing out that the report doesn't confirm that at all.

In fact the NFU report said: "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

In fact the NFU case study showed how disastrous it would be for one farmer to lose access to that labour.

The NFU report didn't confirm anything about control of our borders. The report does not discuss that. So you can't claim that the report confirms what you said. You can't quote anything in it that supports your point of view, so you can't say it confirms your point of view.

In fact it says the exact opposite. Wriggle as much as you like, you said it confirms something and not only did it not say that, it said the exact opposite.

Who knows more about farming, the NFU or you?

Now what was it they said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

[Removed by poster at 05/02/16 16:52:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As for "I never once said anywhere on this thread that I quoted part of the report." That's absolutely true and of course that's because you didn't read it so couldn't quote it. That's why I asked you to quote where the report made the point that you claimed.

You couldn't. You were making it up again.

Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

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By *ub_liminalTVTV/TS
over a year ago

Belfast

Personally I'd like that but it won't happen. It was an open border anyway up to '69/'70 except for gardia checking cars from Northern Ireland were taxed.

A lot can happen in a couple of generations, there might not be a border. "

The constitutional position of Northern Ireland remains unchanged, it is a UK region.

Can you talk within those terms and refrain from making sweeping statements regarding what a particular demographic of a population may or may not do?

I would never presume to comment on the actions of any group using such reductive logic .

Anyway the eu... Out. In its current form. It was a trading agreement that has been skewed with other agendas..

I'm not opposed to it at all , if the encroaching federalism by stealth thing is ironed out.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

Personally I'd like that but it won't happen. It was an open border anyway up to '69/'70 except for gardia checking cars from Northern Ireland were taxed.

A lot can happen in a couple of generations, there might not be a border.

The constitutional position of Northern Ireland remains unchanged, it is a UK region.

Can you talk within those terms and refrain from making sweeping statements regarding what a particular demographic of a population may or may not do?

That was my experience and from that I can extrapolate a trend.

I'll make whatever statements I like within the rules, if you don't like them don't read them.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

The report did not reach a conclusion that you were trying to say it had. If anything it said on that point virtually the opposite.

Go on admit it - you lied and didn't even read it let alone understand it. Most definitely you tried to make up something that the NFU did not say.

You are one of the site experts on talking shite so I'll have to bow to you on that.

In fact the NFU report said: "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

In fact the NFU case study showed how disastrous it would be for one farmer to lose access to that labour.

In fact it says the exact opposite. Wriggle as much as you like, you said it confirms something and not only did it not say that, it said the exact opposite.

Who knows more about farming, the NFU or you?

Now what was it they said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations.""

You're telling me it's getting boring. There really is no point in discussing this any further with you because you appear to be blinkered and it is becoming a circular argument. I will just say to everyone else reading the thread please feel free to scroll back up the thread a draw your own conclusions.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"As for "I never once said anywhere on this thread that I quoted part of the report." That's absolutely true and of course that's because you didn't read it so couldn't quote it. That's why I asked you to quote where the report made the point that you claimed.

You couldn't. You were making it up again.

Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations.""

What and you seriously think all immigration will cease to exist once we leave the EU? If you really think that you are more stupid than I originally thought possible.

For the gazillion time, I didn't quote the report, you did that and I merely commented on what you quoted about the EU's free movement of people principle, which shows we can never control our borders while we are members of the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" That report doesn't say that the NFU are no fans at all.

No they are not. If they were they wouldn't be having a negative to 'wait and see' stance. The CBI is a 'fan'. The NFU is NOT a fan. I never said they were 'anti'. Its really that simple.

And on the free movement of labour, where the report you cited said:

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations. The free movement

of people is one of the four fundamental freedoms of the EU, entitling

citizens of EU member states and their families to live and work anywhere

in the EU. "

That doesn't sound like they were sitting on the fence.

Besides Chalk already explained maybe British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants.

Obviously you haven't read the report because it says nothing of the sort. As usual you are making things up.

Obviously you haven't read my comment because i responded directly to what you just wrote.

What on earth are you rambling on about?????

If it helps you, they use the word immigration once on page 27, and it's not for whst you said.

As usual you were just making it up.

Now try to read this very slowly so it sinks into your brain. You said "And on the free movement of Labour where the report you cited said:

What it does day (page 6) is "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations".

The case study on page 7 indicates how disastrous it could be for British farming to stop that. In the words of a farmer, not someone who has to be spoon-fed nonsense by UKIP each morning.

Come on, you've read the report or so you say. It's easy enough, tell everyone where it says what you said it does. Quote the sentence directly from the document.

You can't though can you? Because you made it up.

Honestly you don't half type some shite.

The report did not reach a conclusion that you were trying to say it had. If anything it said on that point virtually the opposite.

Go on admit it - you lied and didn't even read it let alone understand it. Most definitely you tried to make up something that the NFU did not say.

You are one of the site experts on talking shite so I'll have to bow to you on that.

In fact the NFU report said: "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

In fact the NFU case study showed how disastrous it would be for one farmer to lose access to that labour.

In fact it says the exact opposite. Wriggle as much as you like, you said it confirms something and not only did it not say that, it said the exact opposite.

Who knows more about farming, the NFU or you?

Now what was it they said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

Nothing circular at all - you went direct to the making any old shit up option and hoping every one swallows it.

What are you saying to the farmer in the case study:

Cobrey Farms in South Herefordshire needed 960 people for its harvest in 2015. They got 44 applications from direct UK applicants which they tried to recruit. However once a job was offered all but three UK born people rejected the offer of work. Without the opportunity to work with foreign nationals they said "we would be unable to grow these crops and harvest them successfully".

What are you telling the NFU who wrote: "It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to

non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations." ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This thread is similar to the real debate. A lot of bollocks and half truths spouted on both sides which will put most people off voting!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You couldn't. You were making it up again.

Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

What and you seriously think all immigration will cease to exist once we leave the EU? If you really think that you are more stupid than I originally thought possible.

So above when you said "British workers will be more inclined to do those farming jobs if they are being offered higher wages than the peanuts they pay to immigrants" that was a forlorn hope wasn't it? Because you know that exactly the same number of workers will be needed to bring in the harvest, but now you say it can be done by immigrants.

Is that under your Australian style visa system? That'll be so much more efficient - I'm sure that the farmer in the case study will be ever so pleased about having to fill in 954 work permit/visa applications. Bureaucracy gone mad hey?

Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"This thread is similar to the real debate. A lot of bollocks and half truths spouted on both sides which will put most people off voting!"

Aye.

*shakes head sadly*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People who say "this" are usually as devoid of facts as the person who uttered the nonsense in the first place.

To mention climate change and the right to fly around Europe on weekend breaks and work is... Just so fucking stupid its beyond belief!....

The only thing that can save the world from climate change and the inevitable self sustaining feed back loops is an immediate 25% cut in the western GDP output..

And honestly that might not be enough... Once that 2 degree threshold has gone, humans are just on a joyride to oblivion..

And no before you say it... The EU had done fuck all to help the situation in thirty fucking years we've known about it!.

You wanna "belive" joining some pretty union will save you from some future disaster, go right ahead and sign up, but don't tell me that the eu is saving us from fucking climate change

Dave,

Are you always this rude or were you just drinking too much before posting?

Now, go wash your mouth out. Your Mum wouldn't be impressed! "
.

Kittie

No I was quite sober, I stay away from here when d*unk for fear of upsetting people with the word "fucking".... Which on a website designed around fucking is rather ironic!... Anyhoo, back to the point about how the EU is saving us from climate change... Oh where to begin, firstly your figures are completely wrong, the Tyndall centre in Manchester, which is a world leading authority on climate change and a place I've visited many many times, what they actually said is, we need a 90% cut on c02 emissions by at least 2050 but preferably by 2030(yes so soon).

To imagine that the EU has somehow done anything like what was required by experts, even going back to Kyoto in 97 is laughable... It's so ridiculous it makes me swear with fucking irony, oh yes the member states that signed at Kyoto... How many is there now again... Expansionism in the EU is the last thing that you would have done if you were in any remotely way interested in stopping climate change....

Now if you really want to talk seriously about climate change and what the science says, fine, let's look at it....2500 tonnes a second, we know if we emit a trillion tonnes, we'll break the 2 degree limit (by the way that's the revised limit we shouldn't go past as originally it was 1 degree but we're through that now and 2 degrees is inevitable in really due to the twenty year lag of c02 to heat gain).. So now Paris already allowed for the... Let's no get past 3 degrees above baseline!!!

Don't lecture me on climate change, I've been to more seminars on it than I care to remember!.

Ps my mother would be furious about lots of things I do on here, the least thing she'd be worried about is my swearing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Time to leave the EU IMO.

why?

A grand experiment that will implode sooner or later. Better to leave the party early

The EU has been likened to a burning building or a sinking ship, better to get out now before the building collapses or the ship sinks. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You couldn't. You were making it up again.

Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations."

What and you seriously think all immigration will cease to exist once we leave the EU? If you really think that you are more stupid than I originally thought possible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This thread is similar to the real debate. A lot of bollocks and half truths spouted on both sides which will put most people off voting!

Aye.

*shakes head sadly*"

Try watching question time then...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A 90% reduction in c02 within 16 years!.... Think about that while your arguing about flying in and out without passports for holidays and billions of tonnes of cargo going between countries...

Were so far away from where we need to be we can't see the wood for trees!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now what was it that the NFU said?

"It’s an absolute priority that British farmers and growers have access to non-UK born labour to carry out all their operations.""

Nicely selective but out of context. The 'Status Quo' is that the NFU needs people from abroad. When we leave we will control who comes in. We will also be able to pay our farmers higher prices as we will not be tied down by the CAP that gives more to inefficient French Farmers than the most efficient farmers in Europe. British farmers. And if you think that any farmer is NOT going to take advantage of cheap tax payer subsidised Polish workers then you are a penny short of a pound. In a Britain out of the EU we will limit immigration to those we need not unfettered access from millions of hopefuls. And as someone who drove trucks to many chilled food warehouses and saw how the immigrants had totally replaced the British staff I can assure you they do nothing a British worker can't do. They do it cheaper thats all because they are prepared to live in caravans in fields and live 8 to a room double shifting beds. What chance has a British worker to compete against that? No it is all cause and effect. Flood a labour market with cheap labour and the wages go down. Add in bonkers Tax Credits so taxpayers subsidise those wages and then give £Millions to the Polish workers children in Warsaw and its all weighted against the resident British worker. Nett effect is the local workforce are displaced. As I was and I was a very highly skilled technician.

And if it wasn't so serious you'd laugh at this: The Poles are now complaining about how all the Albanians and Romanians and Bulgarians are turfing them out of their jobs! In Britain! The EU is a race to the bottom and we really CAN do better.

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