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By *erryg OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

denton

steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course they did,it's their new found love of China. Osborne wants us all to have the Chinese work ethic.

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!"

It's not so simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Of course they did,it's their new found love of China. Osborne wants us all to have the Chinese work ethic. "

Apologies,that was Jeremy Hunt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello all,

the energy surcharge for heavy industries should be scrapped, that doesn't help U.K. manufacturing at all, if anything they should pay a bit less per unit as their consumption is high.

Alec

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By *llebWoman
over a year ago

Poulton Le Fylde


"Of course they did,it's their new found love of China. Osborne wants us all to have the Chinese work ethic. "

Shouldn't that be wok ethic?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Of course they did,it's their new found love of China. Osborne wants us all to have the Chinese work ethic.

Shouldn't that be wok ethic?"

Ooh,careful you'll be pulled up on that one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's economics .

Where did you buy your last pair of trainers ?

Or any item of clothing ?

If one place sells the same item at half the price where would you buy it ?

So our steel is so much more expensive and uneconomic to produce , so we buy it in cheaper.

Sad but we all do it every day .

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Global free market winners and losers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's economics .

Where did you buy your last pair of trainers ?

Or any item of clothing ?

If one place sells the same item at half the price where would you buy it ?

So our steel is so much more expensive and uneconomic to produce , so we buy it in cheaper.

Sad but we all do it every day .

"

Well it's more the fact the Chinese have a lot of spare steel that they bought in the expectation the economy would be doing better than it is. So they are flogging it which has a temporary deflation on prices. My understanding is that the current price is below anyone's cost so it will inevitably rise. Personally I'd bail out a steel mill over a bank any day of the week, twice on Sundays.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market"

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!"
How much do you know about the industry..once the ovens have went cold then thats that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our government....our Tory government and no Tory government protects British jobs and people. They say they do care...but seriously can you really believe them. I never have. We are cuddling up to the Chinese..the full red carpet given...do you think they care a flying fxxk either. We don't protect our company's from take over...we don't protect our working people...it is a historical disgrace...!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry"

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham


"It's economics .

Where did you buy your last pair of trainers ?

Or any item of clothing ?

If one place sells the same item at half the price where would you buy it ?

So our steel is so much more expensive and uneconomic to produce , so we buy it in cheaper.

Sad but we all do it every day .

"

That could be down to the wages the workforce are being paid, the process of making steel hasn't changed much from here to China only the wages the staff are paid does.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am no corbyn fan at all...more a blairite....business is business...and businesses need the right conditions and a left turning labour won't help that. But what is needed is a labour party and government that works for both people and business....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am no corbyn fan at all...more a blairite....business is business...and businesses need the right conditions and a left turning labour won't help that. But what is needed is a labour party and government that works for both people and business...."

Neither conservatives, nor labour, nor the coalition have sorted out the clusterfuck that is our energy market! Making steel needs a lot of energy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!"

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a nonsense thread. Steel has been dying since the 1930s. This is not the fault of English language funding ffs. How can workers in the UK expect to compete with China given the absurd wages they exoect to be paid for being massively unproductive. Anyone who knows or has worked in Steel knows the joke amount of work actually done in these heavily unionised industries.

Cure for Steel would be;

Produce only high end, specialist steels.

Non union jobs with much lower starting pay, and pay based upon productivity for each worker worked.

May sound harsh, but not as harsh as thousands of people having to take jobs in Tesco and the like.

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!

It's not so simple"

I agree. Nothing is ever that simple, but when things become cost-effective enough, it will happen!

The same as this fracking business. Ten years ago, it was not at all cost effective, but I think very soon, it will be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!How much do you know about the industry..once the ovens have went cold then thats that"

That's right! As soon as you try to re-fire the ovens they will crack, they have to be kept hot as they are a onc use only item

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!How much do you know about the industry..once the ovens have went cold then thats that"

My grandad worked for one all his life, one of the most popular ones in UK history is a few miles away from me.

Having said that, I still don't claim to know the inns and outs of the industry.

That about the ovens isn't right though. If it became cost effective, they would simply develop new ovens. If it became cost effective enough, companies would invest any reasonable amounts if there were signs of profit to be made.

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester


"I agree with the first bit. However, remember thst everything balances out. As soon as the Chinese jack the prices up, as soon as it becomes profitable for us to reopen ours, we will!How much do you know about the industry..once the ovens have went cold then thats that

That's right! As soon as you try to re-fire the ovens they will crack, they have to be kept hot as they are a onc use only item "

What would you guys do if your oven breaks?!? Or your car breaks?

Abandon? Do without?

What does any business do when critical components break or no longer function?

They look for the best value way of getting back on track! When there is profit to be made, they will factor in these sorts of issues. As soon as it is profitable, it will happen!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get."

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"This is a nonsense thread. Steel has been dying since the 1930s. This is not the fault of English language funding ffs. How can workers in the UK expect to compete with China given the absurd wages they exoect to be paid for being massively unproductive. Anyone who knows or has worked in Steel knows the joke amount of work actually done in these heavily unionised industries.

Cure for Steel would be;

Produce only high end, specialist steels.

Non union jobs with much lower starting pay, and pay based upon productivity for each worker worked.

May sound harsh, but not as harsh as thousands of people having to take jobs in Tesco and the like."

do you work in a steel production plant?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market "

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market"

Oh well

Time to move away from primary industry

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?"

last month, port talbot steel works (where the bilk of the new job cuts are to be) were granted planning permission to build it's own power plant which will/was up their available energy from 115Mw to 225Mw and insulate them from uk's exorbitant energy supply.

who know's if it will go ahead now but hopefully it will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?"

That our energy market doesn't function properly due to the bizarre government enforced structure, the net result is that in the UK the £/MWh is over 90, whilst France is about 45!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?

That our energy market doesn't function properly due to the bizarre government enforced structure, the net result is that in the UK the £/MWh is over 90, whilst France is about 45! "

And the fact the French market isn80% Nuclear and sushi died by the govt

Ours is at the mercy of the market for coal and oil

Whilst oil has fallen outer energy firms are also force to buy expensive renewable energy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is a nonsense thread. Steel has been dying since the 1930s. This is not the fault of English language funding ffs. How can workers in the UK expect to compete with China given the absurd wages they exoect to be paid for being massively unproductive. Anyone who knows or has worked in Steel knows the joke amount of work actually done in these heavily unionised industries.

Cure for Steel would be;

Produce only high end, specialist steels.

Non union jobs with much lower starting pay, and pay based upon productivity for each worker worked.

May sound harsh, but not as harsh as thousands of people having to take jobs in Tesco and the like."

Spot on

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"This is a nonsense thread. Steel has been dying since the 1930s. This is not the fault of English language funding ffs. How can workers in the UK expect to compete with China given the absurd wages they exoect to be paid for being massively unproductive. Anyone who knows or has worked in Steel knows the joke amount of work actually done in these heavily unionised industries.

Cure for Steel would be;

Produce only high end, specialist steels.

Non union jobs with much lower starting pay, and pay based upon productivity for each worker worked.

May sound harsh, but not as harsh as thousands of people having to take jobs in Tesco and the like.

Spot on "

again ... do you work in a steel production plant?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?

That our energy market doesn't function properly due to the bizarre government enforced structure, the net result is that in the UK the £/MWh is over 90, whilst France is about 45!

And the fact the French market isn80% Nuclear and sushi died by the govt

Ours is at the mercy of the market for coal and oil

Whilst oil has fallen outer energy firms are also force to buy expensive renewable energy "

Ergo you can't buy cheap energy because nobody can supply it to the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market

EU rules do not permit us to provide a subsidy to our steel industry

OK but the EU don't inflate out domestic energy prices above German ones do they? Just having normal energy prices would help!

Steel requires energy. I am sure that the steel industry shops around for the best deal it can get.

That's a contradiction in terms given the structure of our energy market

I am certain that the steel industry does not pay domestic charges. I would hope very much that it negotiates the best price that it can from potential suppliers. Why is that a contradiction in terms?

That our energy market doesn't function properly due to the bizarre government enforced structure, the net result is that in the UK the £/MWh is over 90, whilst France is about 45! "

And the Port Talbot plant pays what?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

8.5 pence per unit from what i remember .... which is obviously less than domestic rate by roughly 4/5 pence per unit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So wages are more to blame than energy costs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About the same amount of jobs lost in IT and bank operations to Indian (and in last few year Poland) outsource companies every few weeks then. I can get a programmer for $120 a day in India (via company)$200 for polish or $700 for uk based contractor.(/

Market forces

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?"

not sure how you worked that out?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"About the same amount of jobs lost in IT and bank operations to Indian (and in last few year Poland) outsource companies every few weeks then. I can get a programmer for $120 a day in India (via company)$200 for polish or $700 for uk based contractor.(/

Market forces "

not relevant really .... the old compaing apples and oranges fallacy again

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?"
no the fact that we are trying to compete with a chinese steel industry that is 90% state owned and heavily subsidised whilst being the only country in the EU to play by the anti dumping rules everyone eles in europe has been blocking the cheap steel first we havent we have appealed it once it is here which takes months .once again a Tory govt stands back and watches a british industry fail whilst blethering on about no subsidies whist forcing them to compete with heavily subsidised forign goods sound familiar ? take a look at the coal industry in this country exactly the same none intervetionist poicy has killed it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?no the fact that we are trying to compete with a chinese steel industry that is 90% state owned and heavily subsidised whilst being the only country in the EU to play by the anti dumping rules everyone eles in europe has been blocking the cheap steel first we havent we have appealed it once it is here which takes months .once again a Tory govt stands back and watches a british industry fail whilst blethering on about no subsidies whist forcing them to compete with heavily subsidised forign goods sound familiar ? take a look at the coal industry in this country exactly the same none intervetionist poicy has killed it "

I have every sympathy with the steel workers. We, as a member of the EU (and we will have a chance to change that soon), are not permitted to subsidise them.

It was reported (pinch of salt?) that Port Talbot is losing £1m per day. Would it be economically viable to pay £365m per year to subsidise 3,000 workers?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved."

Well, I do not know what they pay in business rates. Would a reduction save them economically?

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved.

Well, I do not know what they pay in business rates. Would a reduction save them economically?"

from the figures being banded about in the welsh media apparently so.

also the energy bill is £60million a year which is 50% higher than it's competitors in europe, hence the new energy plant they hope to start builing on site this year.

in perspective the plant itself employs 4000 highly skilled and highly educated people. 750 jobs are to go. so the plant isn't being shut at this time.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?no the fact that we are trying to compete with a chinese steel industry that is 90% state owned and heavily subsidised whilst being the only country in the EU to play by the anti dumping rules everyone eles in europe has been blocking the cheap steel first we havent we have appealed it once it is here which takes months .once again a Tory govt stands back and watches a british industry fail whilst blethering on about no subsidies whist forcing them to compete with heavily subsidised forign goods sound familiar ? take a look at the coal industry in this country exactly the same none intervetionist poicy has killed it

I have every sympathy with the steel workers. We, as a member of the EU (and we will have a chance to change that soon), are not permitted to subsidise them.

It was reported (pinch of salt?) that Port Talbot is losing £1m per day. Would it be economically viable to pay £365m per year to subsidise 3,000 workers? "
so its ok to pay

tesco £364million

asda £221million

siansburys £181million in wage subsidys via tax credits remember these are companys that are making profits in the billions why should there staffs wages even need shoring up with tax credits ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved.

Well, I do not know what they pay in business rates. Would a reduction save them economically?

from the figures being banded about in the welsh media apparently so.

also the energy bill is £60million a year which is 50% higher than it's competitors in europe, hence the new energy plant they hope to start builing on site this year.

in perspective the plant itself employs 4000 highly skilled and highly educated people. 750 jobs are to go. so the plant isn't being shut at this time."

I can't find the business rates figures.

The BBC do report that tata is unhappy with the amount paid.

The BBC also report that starters get paid £30k per year. I am not suggesting, by the way, that a steelworker's job is pleasant or unskilled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?no the fact that we are trying to compete with a chinese steel industry that is 90% state owned and heavily subsidised whilst being the only country in the EU to play by the anti dumping rules everyone eles in europe has been blocking the cheap steel first we havent we have appealed it once it is here which takes months .once again a Tory govt stands back and watches a british industry fail whilst blethering on about no subsidies whist forcing them to compete with heavily subsidised forign goods sound familiar ? take a look at the coal industry in this country exactly the same none intervetionist poicy has killed it

I have every sympathy with the steel workers. We, as a member of the EU (and we will have a chance to change that soon), are not permitted to subsidise them.

It was reported (pinch of salt?) that Port Talbot is losing £1m per day. Would it be economically viable to pay £365m per year to subsidise 3,000 workers? so its ok to pay

tesco £364million

asda £221million

siansburys £181million in wage subsidys via tax credits remember these are companys that are making profits in the billions why should there staffs wages even need shoring up with tax credits ?"

I think that is why the Tories wanted to limit tax credit. The economic argument is that companies pay low wages and rely on the employees being able to claim tax credit.

By the way, I am no supporter of Tory policies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?

not sure how you worked that out?

"

I didn't

It was a question

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved.

Well, I do not know what they pay in business rates. Would a reduction save them economically?

from the figures being banded about in the welsh media apparently so.

also the energy bill is £60million a year which is 50% higher than it's competitors in europe, hence the new energy plant they hope to start builing on site this year.

in perspective the plant itself employs 4000 highly skilled and highly educated people. 750 jobs are to go. so the plant isn't being shut at this time.

I can't find the business rates figures.

The BBC do report that tata is unhappy with the amount paid.

The BBC also report that starters get paid £30k per year. I am not suggesting, by the way, that a steelworker's job is pleasant or unskilled."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35161054

the only link fab will allow i'm affraid.

the starting salaries reflect the science based degree level requirements for employees at the works, many of whom will have studied at university for five to obtain an MSC in metalurgy.

industrial electrician at the plant usually requires 7 years of training.

obviously there are more menial jobs at the works but they only pay about £8.50 per hour and are quite often as self employed sub-contractor through agencies etc. you might agree £8.50 doesn't reflect the hassle involved with being self employed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So wages are more to blame than energy costs?no the fact that we are trying to compete with a chinese steel industry that is 90% state owned and heavily subsidised whilst being the only country in the EU to play by the anti dumping rules everyone eles in europe has been blocking the cheap steel first we havent we have appealed it once it is here which takes months .once again a Tory govt stands back and watches a british industry fail whilst blethering on about no subsidies whist forcing them to compete with heavily subsidised forign goods sound familiar ? take a look at the coal industry in this country exactly the same none intervetionist poicy has killed it

I have every sympathy with the steel workers. We, as a member of the EU (and we will have a chance to change that soon), are not permitted to subsidise them.

It was reported (pinch of salt?) that Port Talbot is losing £1m per day. Would it be economically viable to pay £365m per year to subsidise 3,000 workers? so its ok to pay

tesco £364million

asda £221million

siansburys £181million in wage subsidys via tax credits remember these are companys that are making profits in the billions why should there staffs wages even need shoring up with tax credits ?"

Your right

We shouldn't pay it

But we aren't subsidising the companies - they pay minimum wage

We are subsidising the people who work for them

Along with all other minimum wage earners

I say end tax credits - make people work a bit harder and means I can pay less tax

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"tata pay considerably more in business rates than the european steel plants, germany in particular. reducing those rates is one way that the government could intervene without subsidy being involved.

Well, I do not know what they pay in business rates. Would a reduction save them economically?

from the figures being banded about in the welsh media apparently so.

also the energy bill is £60million a year which is 50% higher than it's competitors in europe, hence the new energy plant they hope to start builing on site this year.

in perspective the plant itself employs 4000 highly skilled and highly educated people. 750 jobs are to go. so the plant isn't being shut at this time.

I can't find the business rates figures.

The BBC do report that tata is unhappy with the amount paid.

The BBC also report that starters get paid £30k per year. I am not suggesting, by the way, that a steelworker's job is pleasant or unskilled.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35161054

the only link fab will allow i'm affraid.

the starting salaries reflect the science based degree level requirements for employees at the works, many of whom will have studied at university for five to obtain an MSC in metalurgy.

industrial electrician at the plant usually requires 7 years of training.

obviously there are more menial jobs at the works but they only pay about £8.50 per hour and are quite often as self employed sub-contractor through agencies etc. you might agree £8.50 doesn't reflect the hassle involved with being self employed.

"

I had already read that link. No information there on the business rates paid, other than a complaint from tata that it was too much.

And I really would not expect someone making a sandwich to be paid £30k on their first day in the canteen. It is clearly a very expensive operation producing steel though, with facility costs, energy costs and wages.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"steel is on its arse, china selling cheap so uk cant compete, so no doubt when our steelmills close they will jack up the prices, so then they dominate the market, on the same news 20 million going towards ethic women to learn english, i would put gov money into steel mill, as 1000 more on the dole will cost a lot, a bloke on radio said gov allowed cheap steel to flood the market"

Interesting when the bank's went tits up the government was very quick to pour taxpayers money into it.

Shame the same can't be said for other industries.

I would rather my tax be spent on keeping open steel foundries, manufacturing goods in the UK and training tradesmen to keep the building industry going.

Rather than going to a bunch of overpaid bankers.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Interesting when the bank's went tits up the government was very quick to pour taxpayers money into it.

Shame the same can't be said for other industries.

I would rather my tax be spent on keeping open steel foundries, manufacturing goods in the UK and training tradesmen to keep the building industry going.

Rather than going to a bunch of overpaid bankers.

"

the car scrappage scheme to stoo the motor industry from going under .... although that was the previous government

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

*stop

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

we run a small bizz employ 11 people....in the last ten yrs we are being fucked from all sides..the tories are not sensitive to bizz.....only the big boys who help line the pockets of the tory government/party....wake up people any none conforming bizz will be frozen out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Interesting when the bank's went tits up the government was very quick to pour taxpayers money into it.

Shame the same can't be said for other industries.

I would rather my tax be spent on keeping open steel foundries, manufacturing goods in the UK and training tradesmen to keep the building industry going.

Rather than going to a bunch of overpaid bankers.

the car scrappage scheme to stoo the motor industry from going under .... although that was the previous government"

Didn't help rover tho.

But you are correct, also did this also indirectly assist the steel industry with all the scrap metal?

I feel dreadfully sorry for those who have lost their jobs.

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