FabSwingers.com forum: Corbyn finally loses it.

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Lost plot one.

So some people are against Trident and others in favour. That is a fair argument and no doubt each side would stand their ground and argue their corner. Personally I would be in favour of it but would respect (although argue against) the views of people on the opposite side.

Corbyn however seems to think that it is a good idea to keep the submarines (at a cost of untold billions) but disarm them and either keep them tied up in port or send them around the world on a what would be nothing more than a sightseeing jolly.

Imagine the future scenario under a Corbyn government.

First officer runs from the comm's room to the bridge "Captain we have a message from Downing St. It says the UK is under nuclear attack and we have to respond. "Do we have the launch codes No 1" says the captain. "yes sir, all correct" comes the reply. The captain thinks for a moment and calls the sub to action stations. He opens his secret orders and checks all the codes himself. "OK No 1 this is it" he says as his finger hovers over the red button. "Fire one" he shouts as he presses it. "Email gone" comes the reply from the comm's room as a few billion quids worth of kit sends the Kremlin (or whoever) a nasty letter.

Lost plot two.

He now thinks that the west should open negotiations with ISIS. IZAL. Darth. Dirch. Dodge or whatever their name is this week.

To negotiate what exactly? Seeing as how their only reason to exist is to either destroy us or convert us to their medieval death cult, what do we put on the table?

"We'll give you a million or two converts if you back off from blowing us up"?

Or how about "we'll give you 10,000 infidels who you can crucify, behead, chuck of a building, Etc. if you promise no more machine gun attacks?

Or maybe he wants to just give them Israel on a plate.

Even though I fundamentally disagreed with him on almost everything, I thought at one time that Corbyn was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual stuffed suit career politicians.

Now I realise that this guy is one serious nutter who has really lost the plot (if he ever had it)

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??"

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Scrapping Trident is a no win situation for him. His decision to agree to build the replacement but without the nuclear warheads keeps everyone happy. Another government can easily decide to retrofit the warheads anyway.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!! "

I was going to reply to that but yours is good enough.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Scrapping Trident is a no win situation for him. His decision to agree to build the replacement but without the nuclear warheads keeps everyone happy. Another government can easily decide to retrofit the warheads anyway. "

Everyone being???????

Any guesses?

Do you give up yet?

OK I'll tell you.

Len McCluskey.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!!

I was going to reply to that but yours is good enough.

Exactly, as a result of what he has said, we, the people of this country can think about the issues and ultimately can vote on them. I'm not saying I agree with him, but I am enjoying a very different perspective on things, it makes you think.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well that sounds a lot like a politicians compromise. But it can't be, this is a man of principles after all...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

I take it that the OP may not be a fan then.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *omeotherguyMan
over a year ago

London

Everyone being???????

Any guesses?

Do you give up yet?

OK I'll tell you.

Len McCluskey."

It's a position japan have also considered.

It's not ridiculous. It just means we don't use nuclear weapons but we do safeguard jobs.

The submarines do have other uses rather than just wiping out cities.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I take it that the OP may not be a fan then."

Are you new here?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *hechairman18Man
over a year ago

Salford Quays , Manchester

Hi is/was for scrapping Trident.

Fair comment, that's his opinion.

Then someone whispered in his ear, that it would put approximately 20000 workers out of a job.

Most likely 20000 Labour voters at that.

So quick rethink, keep Trident, just don't arm it.

Me thinks the inmates are running the Asylum.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

I hope his presence will see an engagement in politics and a much bigger electoral turn out than we have seen in the recent past.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi is/was for scrapping Trident.

Fair comment, that's his opinion.

Then someone whispered in his ear, that it would put approximately 20000 workers out of a job.

Most likely 20000 Labour voters at that.

So quick rethink, keep Trident, just don't arm it.

Me thinks the inmates are running the Asylum. "

No that's impossible, he's a man of principle

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

He's got a beard.... so he could never be PM anyway,,,

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *uited staffs guyMan
over a year ago

staffordshire

Don't submarines fire sea based cruise missiles with a conventional warhead or a nuclear warhead?

Whilst I don't particularly agree with Corbyn I don't think his argument would mean the subs would carry no offensive weaponry as above?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Corbyn is playing it cool

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Everyone being???????

Any guesses?

Do you give up yet?

OK I'll tell you.

Len McCluskey."

How about everyone who stands to lose their job and all the industries that serve them.

I haven't even started on the defence side of the arguments

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

I hope his presence will see an engagement in politics and a much bigger electoral turn out than we have seen in the recent past."

Although you could say that Nick Griffin did a lot to improve voter turnout after he became an MEP... they later turned out in force to vote against him

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bloke never has the UKs interests first. Always been a labour supporter until this fruitcake popped up.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!!

I was going to reply to that but yours is good enough.

If he stood for election on an anti Trident platform and won, then I would respect him and the decision. However the only purpose of Trident is as a nuclear deterrent so if you take away the deterrent you might as well take the subs as well.

He seem to want his (or McCluskeys) cake and eat it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? "
Yes I recon he does there, do you?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

I hope his presence will see an engagement in politics and a much bigger electoral turn out than we have seen in the recent past.

Although you could say that Nick Griffin did a lot to improve voter turnout after he became an MEP... they later turned out in force to vote against him"

Exactly my point, extreme views polarise the electorate and hopefully get people engaged.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *otlovefun42 OP Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Everyone being???????

Any guesses?

Do you give up yet?

OK I'll tell you.

Len McCluskey.

How about everyone who stands to lose their job and all the industries that serve them.

I haven't even started on the defence side of the arguments "

But if you scrap Trident then the jobs will go. Keeping submarines (which are basically useless as anything other than an attack craft) deployed but unarmed is stupidity of the highest order.

You may as well commission a few frigates which would be a damn site cheaper and a lot more useful than subs with no weapons.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd rather we have the warheads and not use them, than need them and be beyond fucked to arm the subs due to an attack from any other world power with the ability to nuke us.

And don't be so sure it won't happen if we disarm the subs. Especially with sanctions on Iran being the way it is and the world in apparent meltdown

To have them is prevention.

Anyway, this is a Swingers site. Lets talk about hot women. LMAO

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

Quite right, and as a back bencher firing a few shots across the governments bows he would be great.

But Prime minister material?????

I hope his presence will see an engagement in politics and a much bigger electoral turn out than we have seen in the recent past.

Although you could say that Nick Griffin did a lot to improve voter turnout after he became an MEP... they later turned out in force to vote against him

Exactly my point, extreme views polarise the electorate and hopefully get people engaged."

Can't fault that logic. He is to the right, what George Bush Jnr was to the left!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??"

The ops argument lost me, as it seemed incoherent and alarmist, at best.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?"

Yes he probably does! He hasn't changed his views since 1983 so I'm guessing that takes patience. I wouldn't know, I wasn't born!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lost plot one.

Imagine the future scenario under a Corbyn government.

Lost plot two.

He now thinks that the west should open negotiations with ISIS. IZAL. Darth. Dirch. Dodge or whatever their name is this week.

To negotiate what exactly? Seeing as how their only reason to exist is to either destroy us or convert us to their medieval death cult, what do we put on the table?

"We'll give you a million or two converts if you back off from blowing us up"?

Or how about "we'll give you 10,000 infidels who you can crucify, behead, chuck of a building, Etc. if you promise no more machine gun attacks?

Or maybe he wants to just give them Israel on a plate.

Even though I fundamentally disagreed with him on almost everything, I thought at one time that Corbyn was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual stuffed suit career politicians.

Now I realise that this guy is one serious nutter who has really lost the plot (if he ever had it)

He has not lost the plot, the missiles are the expensive part of the system. They are also American. We basically lease them they are not an independant system. It seems sensible to me to refit the subs for conventional warfare. Keeps the British jobs and then benefits conventional armed forces. They are then actually more useful. We would still have the capabilty to make a nuke if required.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I am against our nuclear deterrents. The cost of the warheads as well as the potential danger involved if anything goes wrong - not saying our armed forces and security are sloppy, just, I do not like the idea of nuclear material so close to innocent people.

But back on track - I believe what Corbyn might be trying to do is compromise on one of his very strong views - which to me speaks as a good point. If he has listened to families and individuals associated with the armed forces and the maintenance of the submarines and manufacturing then I would say that it is a good characteristic for a leader to have.

Even if still having the submarines in action does not save nearly as much as scrapping the entire system - it's still money saved which would, under Corbyn be most likely used to support the NHS or additional social services. Following on it still keeps job losses to a minimum.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He doesn't strike me as the sort of bloke who'll worry about how he's perceived by his critics ....

He doesn't strike me as a person living on planet earth in 2016!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

Yes he probably does! He hasn't changed his views since 1983 so I'm guessing that takes patience. I wouldn't know, I wasn't born! "
That is right, it is good to have the same views and stay strong about it and don't change the values you stand for, cos of others.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

The ops argument lost me, as it seemed incoherent and alarmist, at best. "

A daily Mail reader perhaps

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd rather we have the warheads and not use them, than need them and be beyond fucked to arm the subs due to an attack from any other world power with the ability to nuke us.

And don't be so sure it won't happen if we disarm the subs. Especially with sanctions on Iran being the way it is and the world in apparent meltdown

To have them is prevention.

Anyway, this is a Swingers site. Lets talk about hot women. LMAO "

I really don't see this argument as valid. Yes the world does seem to be exceptionally chaotic, but then again this is nothing in comparison to WW1 and WW2.

I really do not see how nuclear war heads deter another nations from launching their own. After all, most conflict has and will be over resources. So dropping a nuke to obtain another nations resources is pointless, not only because you irradiate the land but also as any nuclear fall out will effect the aggressors land and nation to some degree.

Therefore any nuclear strike, by any nation is ill thought out and counter productive.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lost plot one.

Imagine the future scenario under a Corbyn government.

Lost plot two.

He now thinks that the west should open negotiations with ISIS. IZAL. Darth. Dirch. Dodge or whatever their name is this week.

To negotiate what exactly? Seeing as how their only reason to exist is to either destroy us or convert us to their medieval death cult, what do we put on the table?

"We'll give you a million or two converts if you back off from blowing us up"?

Or how about "we'll give you 10,000 infidels who you can crucify, behead, chuck of a building, Etc. if you promise no more machine gun attacks?

Or maybe he wants to just give them Israel on a plate.

Even though I fundamentally disagreed with him on almost everything, I thought at one time that Corbyn was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual stuffed suit career politicians.

Now I realise that this guy is one serious nutter who has really lost the plot (if he ever had it)

He has not lost the plot, the missiles are the expensive part of the system. "

No they aren't.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

well the subs are the best part of 25 years old so they were going to have to be replaced anyway so whatever was going to replace it is going to be a large part of the cost of trident anyway....

no one on any side didn't say they would not have to be replaced... the debate was what they would be armed with....

i don't see the point of a nuclear weapon, because it would be a ballsy move for anyone to basically use one and say "well we are going to destroy the earth"

so from a purely practical stance the non nuclear weapon is the more threthening as it is more likely to be used

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he's pissing off the right he's alright by me.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well the subs are the best part of 25 years old so they were going to have to be replaced anyway so whatever was going to replace it is going to be a large part of the cost of trident anyway....

no one on any side didn't say they would not have to be replaced... the debate was what they would be armed with....

i don't see the point of a nuclear weapon, because it would be a ballsy move for anyone to basically use one and say "well we are going to destroy the earth"

so from a purely practical stance the non nuclear weapon is the more threthening as it is more likely to be used"

Fabio, you strike me as one of the more rational people who doesn't see the point in nukes. In all seriousness, why do you suppose other countries have gone to extreme lengths to obtain / try to obtain them? (North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, Israel etc)

I mean, if they were pointless, why would North Korea sooner starve 10% of its population to death than give them up?

Genuinely interested in your opinion...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

Yes he probably does! He hasn't changed his views since 1983 so I'm guessing that takes patience. I wouldn't know, I wasn't born! That is right, it is good to have the same views and stay strong about it and don't change the values you stand for, cos of others."

he could be your new patience guru shag

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!! "
like our aircraft carriers with no aircaraft one of which will go strait in to mothballs just as much economic sense

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi is/was for scrapping Trident.

Fair comment, that's his opinion.

Then someone whispered in his ear, that it would put approximately 20000 workers out of a job.

Most likely 20000 Labour voters at that.

So quick rethink, keep Trident, just don't arm it.

Me thinks the inmates are running the Asylum. "

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trident should be scrapped all together . As it stands defence near the nuclear base has seen cuts including NIMROD . The government houses these weapons but has left the base wide open which is a worry.

The Russians have been checking our response times for a long while now via subs and aircraft.

The UK talks a good one but I'm betting if enemies moved quick they could destroy us already.

Meanwhile on the issue of employment . There is oil in the Clyde which nobody is allowed to get to because the subs need the area to get to and from base.

Nuclear warheads are transported the length of the UK by road even in severe weather . It's not a comfortable thought .

There are peaceful countries with no nuclear arms who thrive so why can't we do the same?

It's a big thumbs down from me. Get rid of the lot and use the money to increase defence via sea and air .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

"
Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"He is offering an alternative position to current govt policy. Might not be in line with your views but isn't that kind of the point of democracy??

Not when the proposal is 89% of the cost with none of the benefits!!! like our aircraft carriers with no aircaraft one of which will go strait in to mothballs just as much economic sense "

or scrapping 30 of the latest surveillence airplanes just as they were comissioned only to start heavily investing in new surveillence planes five years later

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol."

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal "

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

And what happens when a Trident sub launches a ballistic missile armed with conventional warheads?

It is automatically assumed the warheads are nuclear and the opposition immediately launch a retaliatory strike.

3 minutes later when the opposition realise the missiles were only conventional they can email the remains of Whitehall apologising for the mistake and we can all have a laugh about it.

I don’t think so!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *lascumMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Lost plot one.

Imagine the future scenario under a Corbyn government.

Lost plot two.

He now thinks that the west should open negotiations with ISIS. IZAL. Darth. Dirch. Dodge or whatever their name is this week.

To negotiate what exactly? Seeing as how their only reason to exist is to either destroy us or convert us to their medieval death cult, what do we put on the table?

"We'll give you a million or two converts if you back off from blowing us up"?

Or how about "we'll give you 10,000 infidels who you can crucify, behead, chuck of a building, Etc. if you promise no more machine gun attacks?

Or maybe he wants to just give them Israel on a plate.

Even though I fundamentally disagreed with him on almost everything, I thought at one time that Corbyn was a breath of fresh air compared to the usual stuffed suit career politicians.

Now I realise that this guy is one serious nutter who has really lost the plot (if he ever had it)

Superb

Now could you suggest what we could do with Nippy Nicola Sturgeon

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And what happens when a Trident sub launches a ballistic missile armed with conventional warheads?

It is automatically assumed the warheads are nuclear and the opposition immediately launch a retaliatory strike.

3 minutes later when the opposition realise the missiles were only conventional they can email the remains of Whitehall apologising for the mistake and we can all have a laugh about it.

I don’t think so!

this is exactly why the "peace through superior firepower" arguement is a dead end.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" like our aircraft carriers with no aircaraft one of which will go strait in to mothballs just as much economic sense "

The secret of 'informed debate' is to be ... err ... 'informed'. Sadly you seem not to be.

So exactly how would we fly any new F35s off the carriers right now exactly? They aren't finished yet or did you miss that bit?

And ever thought the F35 programme and the carrier programme are sort of related to each other timewise?

And as for your nonsense about mothballing the PoW I guess you weren't paying attention when it was announced at the NATO Conference in Wales in 2014 that it will be brought into full service like QE? It was only Labour who had the concept of building two carriers and then having to mothball one. The SDSR10 actually looked at equipping PoW with CATOBAR but it was too expensive, no delivery date and no reliability promised hence reverting to F35B aircraft. SDSR2010 also delayed the decision on active service which was announced in 2014. It will be launched later this year and commissioned in 2019. We WILL have two fully operational carriers only 50 metres shorter than a US Ford Class carrier.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Corbyn is an untidy man with an untidy mind

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal "
Yes, corbyn would like some haribos as well I recon lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? "
Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well."

you could both use george osbourne as a puch bag

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ed Miliband never got as many column inches on here...and he didn't have a beard.......

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

or scrapping 30 of the latest surveillence airplanes just as they were comissioned only to start heavily investing in new surveillence planes five years later"

Oh dear god not another Nimrod lover. Look the MR2 was past its sell by date, first flew in 1967 and a flying death trap. It was a very old aircraft based on the bloody Comet for Christs sake.

And that wonderful idea the Nimrod AEW3? Started in the '70s and binned in the '80s and why we bought Boeing E-3 sentrys.

And as for the Nimrod MRA4? 9 years late and £ Billinos over budget and NONE flying. It couldn't even get an air certificate and the bloody wings wouldn't fit! 3 were built but hardly worked. They couldn't even make the air refuelling systems fit as each fuselage was different!!

And lest we forget the reason we HAD to bin the Harrier, Ark Royal and the Norod MRA4 was Labour's crashing the economy and we had 'no money left'... Or did we forget that bit? It was not a free choice situation. Harrier or Tornado? Give me the Tonka every time.

So yes 5 years later we are now buying a proven flying aircraft fully fitted and operational. Something the Nimrod would never have achieved. So what exactly IS the problem?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch bag"
lol that would be a good idea as well

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal Yes, corbyn would like some haribos as well I recon lol."

They need to be vegetarian though

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

or scrapping 30 of the latest surveillence airplanes just as they were comissioned only to start heavily investing in new surveillence planes five years later

Oh dear god not another Nimrod lover. Look the MR2 was past its sell by date, first flew in 1967 and a flying death trap. It was a very old aircraft based on the bloody Comet for Christs sake.

And that wonderful idea the Nimrod AEW3? Started in the '70s and binned in the '80s and why we bought Boeing E-3 sentrys.

So yes 5 years later we are now buying a proven flying aircraft fully fitted and operational. Something the Nimrod would never have achieved. So what exactly IS the problem?"

the problem is the money is better spent than on this kind of arms race bullshit.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch bag"

Sign me up for this gym

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch baglol that would be a good idea as well

As the Swedish ambassador to Fab, what do the Swedish people think of him Shag?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's not ridiculous. It just means we don't use nuclear weapons but we do safeguard jobs.

The submarines do have other uses rather than just wiping out cities."

Well here is a wake up call. The Vanguard and their successor Trident carrying submarines have just one solitary purpose: Ultimate destruction. And it is the fear by others of retaliation by using these hugely lethal machines that we preserve our safety. The clue is in the words 'Nuclear Deterrent'. So if Mr Corbyn will never hit the button why maintain the current subs let alone build new ones? And sorry but those jobs and the skills and engineering ability will just have to go and be lost forever.

Seems to me those are two VERY good reasons why Mr Corbyn should never be let anywhere NEAR Downing Street. the man is a fool and a National Security liability! And the real stupidity is that HIS policy is not LABOUR policy. What an utter clutterfuck of a political party aspiring to govern .....

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts

Balk all you want at the mid-twenties student who approves of Corbyn, but you cannot deny that he has reinvigorated political debate in this country.

And as for Trident, there appears to be certain baby boomers and generation x'ers that think that nuclear disarmament is somehow dangerous, or indicative of weak will.

But firstly, have you actually thought the Armageddon scenario through? In case of a massive attack on the United Kingdom, nuclear retaliation would do nothing to prevent our demise, merely make sure we have our revenge.

And as for the deterrent argument, echoing Mr Corbyn's view, nuclear weapons have no place in the majority of conflicts taking place in the modern world. Isis, Al Qaeda, Al Shabab, Boko Haram, and god knows what other militant groups out there, are unaffected by these weapons.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's not ridiculous. It just means we don't use nuclear weapons but we do safeguard jobs.

The submarines do have other uses rather than just wiping out cities.

It's clusterfuck rather than clutterfuck. Don't mean to be pedantic but the distinction will help you when doing searches on the hamster.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Balk all you want at the mid-twenties student who approves of Corbyn, but you cannot deny that he has reinvigorated political debate in this country.

I'd say he's a source of comedy gold rather than reinvigorating debate. In the same way that Robin Williams wrote some of his best materials thanks to Bush!

I mean the guy puts a vegan in charge of farming - even Yes Minister didn't think of that one!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I mean, if they were pointless, why would North Korea sooner starve 10% of its population to death than give them up?

Genuinely interested in your opinion... "

well if you think of the 5 countries that won't sign the NNPT (nuclear non-proliferation treaty) you named 4 of them...

india and pakistan have never trusted each other......

same with iran and israel.......

and we know north korea is a case where they don't trust anyone....

so its a race to a weapon no one will ever use..... which seems to make no sense

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

And what happens when a Trident sub launches a ballistic missile armed with conventional warheads?

It is automatically assumed the warheads are nuclear and the opposition immediately launch a retaliatory strike.

3 minutes later when the opposition realise the missiles were only conventional they can email the remains of Whitehall apologising for the mistake and we can all have a laugh about it.

I don’t think so!

"
why would anyone think there would be a nuclear warhead on a missile if they have already been scrapped?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed, the chances of us firing either a nuke or a conventional missile on another country with nukes is pretty slim.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" It's clusterfuck rather than clutterfuck. Don't mean to be pedantic but the distinction will help you when doing searches on the hamster."

Nicely spotted on my typo. I guess that negates the whole of my argument then ...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I mean, if they were pointless, why would North Korea sooner starve 10% of its population to death than give them up?

Genuinely interested in your opinion...

well if you think of the 5 countries that won't sign the NNPT (nuclear non-proliferation treaty) you named 4 of them...

india and pakistan have never trusted each other......

same with iran and israel.......

and we know north korea is a case where they don't trust anyone....

so its a race to a weapon no one will ever use..... which seems to make no sense"

Sure but in your opinion, why enter that race? Do you think they are all crazy or is there any logic to it?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure some commentators here do realise, but others obviously don't.

The trident sub/missile combination is designed to be a retaliatory strike weapon...not a weapon of first strike. They would only ever be used in the event of the UK being hit (and probably wiped out) by a first nuclear strike from a foreign power (e.g. Russia).

The idea being that if Russia did launch such a strike then they would be hit back by our trident missiles...the theory being that therefore they won't launch a first strike. Putting non nuclear first strike weapons on board would be really really pointless.

Anyway if Conrade Corbyn ever did become PM we wouldn't need to defend against Russia...we would probably end up as their closest ally!

And to the OPs other point which seems to have got lost in the debate...I too saw him on Andrew Marr....advocating talking to and "negotiating" with ISIS/Diesh....sorry but that just ends any respect I ever had for him! (I didn't particularly agree with much he said anyway...but I did respect his principles and his right to voice them).....didn't the Labour Party eject George Galloway for advocating talking to Saddam Hussain? He was a pushy at compared to ISIS/Diesh!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Balk all you want at the mid-twenties student who approves of Corbyn, but you cannot deny that he has reinvigorated political debate in this country.

And as for Trident, there appears to be certain baby boomers and generation x'ers that think that nuclear disarmament is somehow dangerous, or indicative of weak will.

I think your second and third paragraphs hit the nail on the head. No developed nations will fire nuclear warheads.

The current conflicts of the world are spread over large areas of land. There is no one target which could end terrorist and militant conflicts.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*pussy cat sorry!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch baglol that would be a good idea as well

As the Swedish ambassador to Fab, what do the Swedish people think of him Shag? "
That is right, not many Swedish on fab, not sure what they think you know, is he famous world wide? Or just the UK?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" But firstly, have you actually thought the Armageddon scenario through? In case of a massive attack on the United Kingdom, nuclear retaliation would do nothing to prevent our demise, merely make sure we have our revenge. "

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch baglol that would be a good idea as well

As the Swedish ambassador to Fab, what do the Swedish people think of him Shag? That is right, not many Swedish on fab, not sure what they think you know, is he famous world wide? Or just the UK?"

Well the lefties here love to hold up nordic countries as bastions of socialism so I thought there might be an affinity there?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here you go soldier, your rifle. What? You want bullets as well? Why? the rifle will be enough of a deterrent, just wave it about a lot and they will all run away. Corbyn is very passionate about certain things, problem is he doesn't see the end game, IS have made it very clear, they don't want to negotiate. While he is in charge of Labour, they will never get back in power, I think even those who supported his selection as leader are realising he has no real clue about anything, his actions in the last few weeks are more akin to a dictator than a democratic leader.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Many conflicts over our time on this planet have been ended not by victory of one side over another but by talking, so whilst it may feel like a 'wtf' is he talking about and ignoring the OP's rather fictional ramble about possible 'scenario's' it will be an option being discussed at the higher echelons of Governments worldwide..

or unless we send in ground troops and there doesn't seem a rush to do that we keep bombing them from high and they keep committing disgusting acts of terror..

notwithstanding that they are a bunch of radical extremists's and the problems that go with negotiating with said..

but that's for folks on a much higher pay scale than any of us on here..

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

I suspect it is you who needs to think this through. The whole idea is that first attack on the UK is 'deterred' because of the fear that we WILL launch armageddon on those same people. It is called 'Mutually Assured Destruction'. So by having them we are NOT attacked but if we did not have them we COULD be attacked."
and there is the problem the north koreans have a huge underground bunker system that they actull are deluded enough to think they could survive a retaliatory strike

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd rather we have the warheads and not use them, than need them and be beyond fucked to arm the subs due to an attack from any other world power with the ability to nuke us.

And don't be so sure it won't happen if we disarm the subs. Especially with sanctions on Iran being the way it is and the world in apparent meltdown

To have them is prevention.

Anyway, this is a Swingers site. Lets talk about hot women. LMAO "

Or cocks ...or nipples ...or arses !!!!!!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Corbyn is playing it cool

Do you think he has good patenience? Yes I recon he does there, do you?

he could be your new patience guru shag

Yes he could, he and me are the masters of being patience lol.

Send him a bag of haribo's, he looks like he needs a good meal

shag looks healthy enough from his pics

Maybe they can become gym buddies? Yes, that would be a good idea as well, he might go to a gym as well.

you could both use george osbourne as a puch baglol that would be a good idea as well

As the Swedish ambassador to Fab, what do the Swedish people think of him Shag? That is right, not many Swedish on fab, not sure what they think you know, is he famous world wide? Or just the UK?

Well the lefties here love to hold up nordic countries as bastions of socialism so I thought there might be an affinity there? "
I see yes and you are right there, they like the Nordics don't thye and no haven't seen anything from the Swedish newspapers, could it be Norway more you think?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *izzabelle and well hungCouple
over a year ago

Edinburgh.

Everyone being???????

Any guesses?

Do you give up yet?

OK I'll tell you.

Len McCluskey.

It's a position japan have also considered.

It's not ridiculous. It just means we don't use nuclear weapons but we do safeguard jobs.

The submarines do have other uses rather than just wiping out cities."

Safeguard jobs???? How about we safeguard jobs building the houses we need?

Not like the Torries will any time soon

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts

If that's the case, I simply revert to the final paragraph of my first comment. The majority of the modern world's conflicts do not take the form of massive attacks launched by one nuclear state against the other.

Besides that, no developed state in their right mind would consider launching a nuclear strike. Forget deterrents put in place by the target country, a country that launches a nuclear weapon in this day and age would effectively be blacklisted by the rest of the world, or at least, the large swathes of it in alliance with one another.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

The nuclear deterrent is also known as the doomsday scenario

If everyone has them, they know that using them will mean retaliation and with that an escalation resulting in all out geothermal nuclear war. Nobody wants to be responsible for that so nobody will use them. If one side unilaterally discarded their wmds, it would mean that the other side would be able to use theirs with impunity.

This is why the SALT treaties between USA and USSR were so important in slowing down the arms race.

In an ideal world there would be no need for a nuclear deterrent

We don't live in an ideal world.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader."

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

"Boots on the ground" would put a number of soldiers lives at risk, arguably be propaganda fodder for IS. Then of course there is the cost of post-traumatic stress disorder in soldiers or actual injuries.

Or we can attempt to talk - heaven forbid we actually attempt to talk and in doing so it may actually put pressure on a terrorist group which is already suffering internally ddue to many who join suffering prejudice due to race, cultural group, nationality an gender. Admittedly there is always going to be a committed core who will not be swayed but you deal with them after when hopefully their cause weakens.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The nuclear deterrent is also known as the doomsday scenario

This is why the SALT treaties between USA and USSR were so important in slowing down the arms race.

In an ideal world there would be no need for a nuclear deterrent

We don't live in an ideal world. "

But we now have other multinational agreements such as NATO. If one nation attacked a hypothetically non-nuclear Britain, then surely, unless Britain was at fault other nations under NATO would retaliate?

In an ideal world yes, I'd say keep them, it's an insurance policy just keep them safe. But we have a government cutting away at services that help our own people. If we can't affor to put more money into say, the NHS then we can't afford nuclear deterrents in my opinion. Not when we are in NATO and politically close to most Western European nations.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? "

Maybe we could give peace a chance?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS?

Maybe we could give peace a chance? "

The sarcasm feels strong with this one.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well the subs are the best part of 25 years old so they were going to have to be replaced anyway so whatever was going to replace it is going to be a large part of the cost of trident anyway....

no one on any side didn't say they would not have to be replaced... the debate was what they would be armed with....

i don't see the point of a nuclear weapon, because it would be a ballsy move for anyone to basically use one and say "well we are going to destroy the earth"

so from a purely practical stance the non nuclear weapon is the more threthening as it is more likely to be used

I mean, if they were pointless, why would North Korea sooner starve 10% of its population to death than give them up?

Genuinely interested in your opinion... "
.

Because we keep invading everyone!

Would be my answer.

My answer to why we keep nuclear weapons would be, it keeps us at the big table and gives you a veto on any motion brought up!.

The point being they don't save you from being attacked by irrational people who live next door.. (Look at Israel).

But they do keep you from being attached by rational people (think US and Russia during Cuban crises).

The trouble with nuclear weapons is not the people who currently have them but the maniacs who might get hold of them. And every year the knowledge of building them becomes easier and easier.

In reality your stuck to withholding material to build them and that's pretty hard to do, so sometime within 20 years or so we're really going to have to sort out either the problems or the maniacs

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? "

When it comes to IS, how can you communicate with them when they don't want to listen, you can't! Yes I do believe we need more than air strikes and troops on the ground is a must. However the ideology of IS is another story. To Educate would be the only option and that's if they are willing to listen. Tbo they are just ruthless thugs hiding behind religion to justify there cause, and these kind of people can't be reasoned with. In reality gaddaffi was right all along, take him out and there would be this uprising. Britain should have kept there noses out and never have interfered with Libya. That's my opinion anyway.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? "
.

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!"

Kill their families...I'd say that is a tad extreme. I mean what if one individual commits to IS and the rest are simply supporting in order to avoid execution? I can understand your logic - ensure a plants roots are dead, but really? I don't think that line of though exercised through murder has any place now.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS?

Maybe we could give peace a chance?

The sarcasm feels strong with this one."

Actually that was the exact answer i got when I asked the same question on another thread. I assumed it meant something to lefties?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haha sorry just given how our ideas seem to be slightly at odds I presumed there was an element of sarcasm there.

I was just genuinely asking if anyone had other alternatives.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haha sorry just given how our ideas seem to be slightly at odds I presumed there was an element of sarcasm there.

I was just genuinely asking if anyone had other alternatives."

Well there was, I had outlined an approach of why Saudi Arabia needed to be the regional power that would stabilise the region. I'd explained that, imperfect as they are, there were no other viable alternatives. That was the counter proposal I got! I take it that you were as underwhelmed as I was...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Haha sorry just given how our ideas seem to be slightly at odds I presumed there was an element of sarcasm there.

I was just genuinely asking if anyone had other alternatives.

Haha yes, as much as I would like to give peace a chance there has to be some transition to put that movement forward. I think you have a point SA would at least be a non-western nation trying to tackle the issue.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

Most of the 911 crazy fuckers were well educated well paid people, mostly doctors and engineers, you wouldn't stop them, they take every word of the Qur'an literally, hence the crazy shit, but you'd stop them having a big following

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

The submarines do have other uses rather than just wiping out cities."

No, they don't . Other submarines do other jobs; those can do nothing except deliver instant sunshine to whatever target is selected ....

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past."
.

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Here's a thought, have a long look at isis tactics.. like, beheadings, setting fire to non believers (like aid workers), sex slavery's, killing your mother, getting your five year old to excute people, genocide of non belivers... Then ask yourself where these ideas come from?.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's why they call then fundermentalists... Because they stick to the fundermentals of the story

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *my-blackTV/TS
over a year ago

Poole

So correct me if I have misunderstood the principle here, but from what I can see is its a bit like:-

mr corbyn - "I dont want our soldiers shooting people so we wont make any weapons"

union leader - "but that will mean the people that make guns are out of work and they vote for you"

mr corbyn - "OK we will carry on making the guns and issuing them but we wont give them any bullets"

yes, I think thats about it, Pink Floyds Brain Damage lyrics spring to mind at this point.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past..

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

Answer honestly: Have you read either and understood? Or even just had someone from a non-biased background who has read both, explain them to you?

I've attended enough seminars held by non-believers and believers of each faith to feel comfortable believing that fundamentalists manipulate words and interpretations to their own needs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past..

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

When I said solution I meant a rational one which would not mean the UK at the worst would commit potential war crimes.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So correct me if I have misunderstood the principle here, but from what I can see is its a bit like:-

mr corbyn - "I dont want our soldiers shooting people so we wont make any weapons"

union leader - "but that will mean the people that make guns are out of work and they vote for you"

mr corbyn - "OK we will carry on making the guns and issuing them but we wont give them any bullets"

yes, I think thats about it, Pink Floyds Brain Damage lyrics spring to mind at this point. "

Excellent reference!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"The nuclear deterrent is also known as the doomsday scenario

This is why the SALT treaties between USA and USSR were so important in slowing down the arms race.

In an ideal world there would be no need for a nuclear deterrent

We don't live in an ideal world.

Do you honestly want to leave defence of the realm in the hands of France and Italy?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

The oddest thing is reading Peter Hitchens agree with the lefties who want to get rid of it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

Corbyn's borderline incompetent. If you oppose trident do as the SNP say and scrap it including the shipyard. Diversify using the money into other things just don't double or triple promise the money which Nicola is doing

Great political move but Corbyn is too dense for that

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The nuclear deterrent is also known as the doomsday scenario

This is why the SALT treaties between USA and USSR were so important in slowing down the arms race.

In an ideal world there would be no need for a nuclear deterrent

We don't live in an ideal world.

Do you honestly want to leave defence of the realm in the hands of France and Italy?"

Well no, because Britain would still have it's armed forces and defensive missile system.

Also a few nukes in the hands of one nation, closely allied to a nation without any, is in my opinion a shared deterrent.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past..

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

Answer honestly: Have you read either and understood? Or even just had someone from a non-biased background who has read both, explain them to you?

I've attended enough seminars held by non-believers and believers of each faith to feel comfortable believing that fundamentalists manipulate words and interpretations to their own needs."
.

Yes I've read them both although I admit skipping various pages, most of it is incredibly boring!.

I really don't know if you've read either but just try genesis or Deuteronomy.. Get to the bit where Moses wants to kill all the children and then deal out the spoils 61 donkeys 70 virgins.. I say virgins because mosses wants to kill every woman who's ever had sex... These are literally what he said.. You don't have to be a halfwit to interpret them badly! You just have to be a halfwit to think there relevant!.

Like I said, go right ahead give peace your best shot, it's no skin of my nose, I just know you'll fail , because every bit of history and data says you'll fail.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP,

found plot 1, nuclear powered subs have many uses, with conventional arms they could also actually be useful.

found plot 2, if we don't get into a dialog with extremists, how do you propose we deal with them? you can't bomb an ideology.

Not saying Corbin is correct or incorrect, but he is proposing not to get involved with nuclear destruction of the planet, and attempting to find a solution to the threat isis (or whatever) they are called this sentence. Are either of those views so bad?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I mean I'm quite willing to quote Christian crazy ideology to you, just so you don't think I'm a racist bigot.

Let's go back 500 years to the Spanish inquisition and see where they got there ideas for drowning witches from, the enforcement of Christian doctrine by penalty of death!.

Smiting people, genocide, killing children, raping women, slavery, it's all there.... The doctrine from God himself.

Isis aren't just making this shit up, there following Mohammed's entire life history.

The only difference being rational sane people actually realise what Mohammed did was wrong!.. Even if there Muslim

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past..

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

Answer honestly: Have you read either and understood? Or even just had someone from a non-biased background who has read both, explain them to you?

I've attended enough seminars held by non-believers and believers of each faith to feel comfortable believing that fundamentalists manipulate words and interpretations to their own needs..

Yes I've read them both although I admit skipping various pages, most of it is incredibly boring!.

Like I said, go right ahead give peace your best shot, it's no skin of my nose, I just know you'll fail , because every bit of history and data says you'll fail."

Most people would admit that in this day and age interpreting such sections as relevant would be poor interpretation of a text regardless.

Look, what you are proposing would only fragment global society further. It would push anti-European and anti-Islamic groups futher. Do you really thank that you could attempt to successfully wipe out IS 100%, without another radical group springing up from individuals who would see it as western islamophobia or western imperialism?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We could always just go back in time and kill the politicians who came up with the debaathification policy that created them. That would be easier than killing all of them...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party for real! Looks like the Labour Manifesto right there!

Return to secondary picketing. Keep trident subs but not their weapons. Do deal on Falklands. Understand Isis "strong points"

Jeremy Corbyn is a delusional idiot and needs to go, he is making Labour look like an amateur political party! I won't vote Labour as long as he is leader.

A lot of people seem to be picking up on the IS comment now. Which is fair enough. I just want to know though, how do we deal with IS?

Because dropping bombs keeps them on the defence - but may provoke mass terror attacks across Europe, and it risks civilian lives and infrastructure.

Either method comes under attack, and all methods are not going to resolve the issue immediately.

I'm just wondering, how would fab members deal with IS? .

Kill everyone one of them, then kill their families..

I know your thinking that sounds harsh! But I'm a realist.

They want you dead or converted to Islam... Take your pick!

It it's a workable proven solution.

Israel have used there policy to great effect with their jihadists, every suicide bomber has their entire family's houses knocked down and every benefit removed!.

I would just take it one step further.

Don't get me wrong if you'd have put me in charge 40 years ago, I'd have spent 10% of world GDP educating everyone in the world to a high standard.

Would have solved most of the problems but not all!.

Let's face some facts.

I'd say extremism is down to personal or small group interpretation of the Quran. Not taking it word for word - if that were the case IS would have a greater impact here in the UK.

Also in addition Israel has come under flack from the international community for the human rights abuses they have committed. Even from America which is a statement.

Your proposal - the execution of families based on one individuals belief and political affiliation is akin to the justifications of many genocides in the past..

You wanted a solution... I'm giving you a workable one!.

Personally you can go and hug them to death or submission... I'm just saying the evidence is against your solution.

Then I would suggest you read the Qur'an or the bible for that matter!.

Answer honestly: Have you read either and understood? Or even just had someone from a non-biased background who has read both, explain them to you?

I've attended enough seminars held by non-believers and believers of each faith to feel comfortable believing that fundamentalists manipulate words and interpretations to their own needs..

Yes I've read them both although I admit skipping various pages, most of it is incredibly boring!.

Like I said, go right ahead give peace your best shot, it's no skin of my nose, I just know you'll fail , because every bit of history and data says you'll fail.

Most people would admit that in this day and age interpreting such sections as relevant would be poor interpretation of a text regardless.

That's exactly the reason why imposed killing their families!.

It's not a belief in genocide, it's a practical solution, that's born out of proof, its worked in Israel/Palestine.

I'm afraid to tell you but there's no easy solution to the problem, most of the rational solutions involve years and years of reformation of Islamic ideology, case in point the dark ages of Christianity.

I just think we haven't got 200 years for Islam to come out the other side as a cOfe example.

I mean let's face the problem, Christianity hadn't exactly got rid of all their nutjobs in 500 years, just look at mid west America...

The question is do we have 500 years to spare with Islam..

Technology is evolving way faster than humans.

My answer is, we don't and my solution is radical,I realise it's not far away from Hitler but there you have it!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OP,

found plot 1, nuclear powered subs have many uses, with conventional arms they could also actually be useful.

found plot 2, if we don't get into a dialog with extremists, how do you propose we deal with them? you can't bomb an ideology.

Good well measured point

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

"OP,

found plot 1, nuclear powered subs have many uses, with conventional arms they could also actually be useful.

found plot 2, if we don't get into a dialog with extremists, how do you propose we deal with them? you can't bomb an ideology.

First the specification of Trident is more expensive than a normal nuclear attack boat so why not just scrap it. Because Corbyn is never decisive.

On negotiation yes if the other side had objectives that were rational which is obvious they don't. And as a reflection on Corbyn team strategy for talks it appears to be to surrender the UK's national interest as the first step of negotiation. Even a rookie poker player knows better.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We could always just go back in time and kill the politicians who came up with the debaathification policy that created them. That would be easier than killing all of them... "
.

There's lots of things, I wouldn't have done, hey I've voted green for 20 years... But we are where we are!.

The ira didn't just go away overnight, it took 80 years and a whole lotta shit for some sort of peace!.

To imagine we've got 80 years with isis is just make belive bullshit!

The internet is feeding them and the Qur'an is teaching them and they're financed by bullshit countries with Theocratic values!

Me I've bought my option!

Your welcome to become my sex slave hippy anytime you like

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We could always just go back in time and kill the politicians who came up with the debaathification policy that created them. That would be easier than killing all of them... "

If time travel were possible...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If he somehow becomes PM then Britain is fucked. He is an idealist who has no idea how the world works. Similar to how Clegg was ass fucked by the realities of big time politics, Corbyn will be bent over and made to take a big one.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rome wasn't built in a day. Vive la Revoluçion! Siémpre.