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Used Car Question

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Another used car question, I know there are some serious petrol heads on this forum that give good advice.

In general, is it better to buy a used car of around 60,000 miles or is it better to buy a used car around 90k miles + that has already had it's cam belt replaced?

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By *lik and PaulCouple
over a year ago

Flagrante

Bit of a broad question but in general I'm a mistrusting soul so would rather have the work done myself so I know it has been done properly.

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By *ouplefunukCouple
over a year ago

North Bristol

Depends how much it is to replace the belt.

What's the price difference between 60k and 90k?

Surely there'll be 30k miles more wear and tear on the rest of the car?

*Him*

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Depends on the service interval for the belt. Generally go for the lower mileage but check service history

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd buy the 60k one and do the cam gear myself - that way I KNOW it has been done and that I'm not taking the word of Honest John the spiv car salesman, only to find in 10k miles the tensioner collapses and ruins the engine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would buy a car at 60k and get the cam belt done that way you know it's done for a few more miles

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd buy the 60k one and do the cam gear myself - that way I KNOW it has been done and that I'm not taking the word of Honest John the spiv car salesman, only to find in 10k miles the tensioner collapses and ruins the engine.

"
snap

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Another used car question, I know there are some serious petrol heads on this forum that give good advice.

In general, is it better to buy a used car of around 60,000 miles or is it better to buy a used car around 90k miles + that has already had it's cam belt replaced?"

The timing belt interval is important. Has the car in question also had the associated tensioners (including the water pump on some cars) replaced or just the belt. I can tell you that most belt failures usually arise from a sieved or failed tensioner rather than actual belt failure.

When buying a car I always say to scour the service history and check that its been done properly, especially if its a prestige marque or if you intend on keeping it for a few years.

Cars nowadays are only just run in at 100k miles so buying one with that kind of mileage shouldn't be a problem if its been looked after properly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Thanks for the advice, bloody tough car shopping!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also be aware that many cars have reduced belt change intervals due to failures and often the dealers don't observe this. A good case is Vauxhall with their 1.9 diesel engines. Fiat/Alfa who designed and make the engines reduced the interval fro 100k or 10yrs down to 50k or 5yrs, Vauxhall also complied but many of their main dealers still don't observe it and still recommend the extended interval, leading to a lot of failures.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thanks for the advice, bloody tough car shopping! "

I know what you mean - I'm also looking for car.

When I was younger it was fun and exciting but now I'm scared that it will just empty my bank account.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

Don't take the dealers word for it. Check all the paperwork and receipts. If you can't find evidence try to haggle the price down to allow the cost of replacement.

Also check online for other items on that particular model which are likely to wear out, cause problems or were part of a manufacturer recall.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't take the dealers word for it. Check all the paperwork and receipts. If you can't find evidence try to haggle the price down to allow the cost of replacement.

Also check online for other items on that particular model which are likely to wear out, cause problems or were part of a manufacturer recall. "

Excellent advice right there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Found in the past 90/100k when other 'stuff' n hoses tend to be ready to go,lol pin hole leaks in radiator,thermostat hoses that drain coolant but only appear at working temp,think some of the smaller turbo diesels too highly strained for really high mileage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't pay much attention to the mileage with a modern engine,it all depends on how the car as been driven.A car with 60k being driven hard and fast is far more off putting than one with 100k which as been driven steady.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Found in the past 90/100k when other 'stuff' n hoses tend to be ready to go,lol pin hole leaks in radiator,thermostat hoses that drain coolant but only appear at working temp,think some of the smaller turbo diesels too highly strained for really high mileage"

Good excuse for silicone hoses though..

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Another used car question, I know there are some serious petrol heads on this forum that give good advice.

In general, is it better to buy a used car of around 60,000 miles or is it better to buy a used car around 90k miles + that has already had it's cam belt replaced?"

Neither!

Most cam belts have a hard use life of around 30,000 miles, so whether your buying at 30, 60 or 90 thousand miles you need to change the cam belt.

Having said that, the more miles on a vehicle the more lightly it is that individual body and engine faults will have been uncovered.

The last bit is only my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The bain of my life at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The bain of my life at the moment. "

What's up mate?

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate"

This blasted phone the who ffs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

This blasted phone the who ffs"

Could have been worse, you could have called the 'The Hole'!

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

This blasted phone the who ffs

Could have been worse, you could have called the 'The Hole'! "

That's true mate. How's the mixing going

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

This blasted phone the who ffs

Could have been worse, you could have called the 'The Hole'!

That's true mate. How's the mixing going "

Ordered some liquids mate. I'm going 100% organic VG. Should be interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also depends what car you are looking at, lots of newish cars don't even have cam belt, they have a cam chain, which very rarely needs changing, just inspected every 100k!

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

This blasted phone the who ffs

Could have been worse, you could have called the 'The Hole'!

That's true mate. How's the mixing going

Ordered some liquids mate. I'm going 100% organic VG. Should be interesting."

Let me no how it go's

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also depends what car you are looking at, lots of newish cars don't even have cam belt, they have a cam chain, which very rarely needs changing, just inspected every 100k!

"

They have their own issues to consider. Usually oil related. If a previous owner has skipped an oil change or not used the correct oil the chains can stretch and you have the same damage as a broken can belt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go on lib me and the whole on what the problem mate

This blasted phone the who ffs

Could have been worse, you could have called the 'The Hole'!

That's true mate. How's the mixing going

Ordered some liquids mate. I'm going 100% organic VG. Should be interesting.

Let me no how it go's "

Will do mate...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also be aware that many cars have reduced belt change intervals due to failures and often the dealers don't observe this. A good case is Vauxhall with their 1.9 diesel engines. Fiat/Alfa who designed and make the engines reduced the interval fro 100k or 10yrs down to 50k or 5yrs, Vauxhall also complied but many of their main dealers still don't observe it and still recommend the extended interval, leading to a lot of failures."

I have an Astra 1.9TDI. 150... Had my belt done at 70k now done 110k. Just had the car serviced....running like new!

Personally OP...go for the 60k and have the belt done at the recommended interval. The gearbox and running gear etc will also be 30k newer!

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By *ungunjasMan
over a year ago

Kettering

Imagine you are sorted by now, but for me:- Get the lower mileage assuming all else is equal ?? With new MOT ??

Get the belt, water pump and thermostat done (usually all done together) and a full service ... oil filters and anti freeze. Then relax, lean back and enjoy.... peace and happy motoring x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's just difficult as the market is dictated by what is available.

I can only travel around 40 miles (my old man is a bit of a mechanical genius but he can't be arsed to travel more than an hour which is fair enough!) and I have a fairly strict budget as I'm saving for a property of my own.

I've assessed what I want, what I need and what would actually be a decent investment (I'd bloody love a classic but I'd rather not but up with the associated 'quirks') as I want to ultimately keep it a while and avoid depreciation as much as possible and would kind of like a Z3.

Finding one on price, reasonably local, with reasonable mileage (given it will most likely be 15+ years old) in reasonable condition with service history and in an appealing colour (in this respect I am a tart) is just almost frustrating.

I've been watching the market for a while and there seems not to be any rhyme or reason to it - they aren't cheaper in the winter simply because less people sell them which innately drives the price up.

It all wouldn't be an issue but I need a car soon so I can look for a new job as mine is disintegrating and I've been a whore to public transport to save a few pennies.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?"

More on who you know

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?"

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My phone is clearly being a twat. Replace the word 'can' with 'cam'.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools."

How will we ever cure you of this alfa fetish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also be aware that many cars have reduced belt change intervals due to failures and often the dealers don't observe this. A good case is Vauxhall with their 1.9 diesel engines. Fiat/Alfa who designed and make the engines reduced the interval fro 100k or 10yrs down to 50k or 5yrs, Vauxhall also complied but many of their main dealers still don't observe it and still recommend the extended interval, leading to a lot of failures.

I have an Astra 1.9TDI. 150... Had my belt done at 70k now done 110k. Just had the car serviced....running like new!

Personally OP...go for the 60k and have the belt done at the recommended interval. The gearbox and running gear etc will also be 30k newer!"

That's the Alfa engine. You'll be due a belt and water pump change in the next 10k. If your Vauxhall dealer says otherwise they're wrong and need to be reported to GM as they aren't complying with the updated interval.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools.

How will we ever cure you of this alfa fetish "

You won't...

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools.

How will we ever cure you of this alfa fetish

You won't... "

I no your a hopeless case bit like me with my ford's

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools.

How will we ever cure you of this alfa fetish

You won't...

I no your a hopeless case bit like me with my ford's "

Old Ford's yes. New ones, not a chance...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial."

Owwwww you didn't just go there did you

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I know sod all about cars. But twice we have had to have a cam belt replaced. On two different cars. Once it cost 1000 once it was more like 300. So doesn't it depend a bit on what cars your buying?

No, it depends on the garage.

I drive Alfa's and have done for the last ten years. Alfa dealers want over £700 to change a can belt, that doesn't include tensioners and water pump (both vital) if they were included they'd want nearly £1000. Most other garages won't touch them because the Alfa engines require specialist can locking tools (specific to each engine type) to be able to time the engine, or you destroy the head.

The specialist I use charge £350 including the water pump, aux belt and all tensioners using the correct Alfa parts using the correct tools.

How will we ever cure you of this alfa fetish

You won't...

I no your a hopeless case bit like me with my ford's

Old Ford's yes. New ones, not a chance..."

As always we shall agree to disagree my friend....... having said that lib knows best

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial."

Yes, coil pack found and fitted today. It may soon be up for sale. If I don't buy it I will be throwing a full detail in for the new buyer because its a bloody lovely car and Topsy is one of my best friends.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial."

I've never had anything more than a clutch in ten years of driving them. They're as reliable as anything else if looked after properly.

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By *ungunjasMan
over a year ago

Kettering

Agree it's more about who you know.

Essential to have all the parts changed (as all previous comments) at this sort of mileage, a belt failure could be far more expensive !!

Try to buy with the work completed and an invoice to prove.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial.

I've never had anything more than a clutch in ten years of driving them. They're as reliable as anything else if looked after properly."

I totally agree (I'm partial to an Alfa myself) but it isn't that simple in general.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial.

I've never had anything more than a clutch in ten years of driving them. They're as reliable as anything else if looked after properly.

I totally agree (I'm partial to an Alfa myself) but it isn't that simple in general."

Buying a used car from an enthusiast who's cared for the car from new is a good place to start. The rest is as simp!e as finding a decent specialist and joining a well established online community.

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By *ungunjasMan
over a year ago

Kettering

totally agree...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think it's a shit question,go for the lessor mileage ffs.. no brainer..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What car?

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By *inzi LTV/TS
over a year ago

The Garden of Eden in Beautiful North Wales


"Another used car question, I know there are some serious petrol heads on this forum that give good advice.

In general, is it better to buy a used car of around 60,000 miles or is it better to buy a used car around 90k miles + that has already had it's cam belt replaced?"

Only my opinion but depending on how much you wanna spend, I'd say buy an ex lease car. They're usually around 3 to 5 years old, have been serviced regularly and only ever done motorway cruising speeds.

P.S. Skodas are great cars, despite the old jokes... even the early rear engine cars used to regularly come top of they're class in the RAC rally.

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By *inkyKellyCDTV/TS
over a year ago

Coventry

There's a ton of used car buying guides about which should point you in the direction of several other things to look for :P

Spent a fair bit on what I thought (and what the owner seemed to think) was a near-mint '88 MR2 - it was supposedly his pride and joy, and on the outside and inside it showed - but on the underside, MOT failiure levels of rust :/ couple of hundred quid to fix. I'd done a lifetime of research (wanted one for about 10 years) but it's a lottery sometimes.

My previous car had done 100k miles and ran flawlessly for years - mileage shouldn't really be seen as a be-all and end-all, since it's how it's been looked after (or not) over those miles that counts :P Service history/reciepts are handy to have/see.

Ramblerambleramble

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial.

I've never had anything more than a clutch in ten years of driving them. They're as reliable as anything else if looked after properly.

I totally agree (I'm partial to an Alfa myself) but it isn't that simple in general."

Our Alfa Brera is one of the best cars we've ever had. Done 25k in it and apart from maintenance has cost us very little. One broke spring and lower joint due to fucking potholes, one duff glow plug and that's all. Only problem seems to be it's propensity for attracting other vehicles, maybe it's got a powerful magnetic field lol.

ALFA reg looks great too. We fancy the spider version but can't justify it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has Topsy got her Alfa fixed yet?

Don't get me wrong - I like them, but to portray them as less troublesome than other marques is denial.

I've never had anything more than a clutch in ten years of driving them. They're as reliable as anything else if looked after properly.

I totally agree (I'm partial to an Alfa myself) but it isn't that simple in general.

Our Alfa Brera is one of the best cars we've ever had. Done 25k in it and apart from maintenance has cost us very little. One broke spring and lower joint due to fucking potholes, one duff glow plug and that's all. Only problem seems to be it's propensity for attracting other vehicles, maybe it's got a powerful magnetic field lol.

ALFA reg looks great too. We fancy the spider version but can't justify it. "

Spiders are a bit nose heavy compared to the Brera. One thing you can do, with either, is fit poly bushed lower wishbone arms. They transform the handling and will last the life of the car too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt."

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?"

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though."

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

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By *irkby coupleCouple
over a year ago

Kirkby

1st thing I do when I buy a used car is the belt, service and have a look at the brakes, factor the cost into the price your willing to offer.

Not all people who sell cars are dodgy tho, but most will tell you a pack of lies to get shut.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have."

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?"

No but they should be inspected regularly and its really not advisable to skip or stretch oil changes.

Timing chains don't break but they do stretch and when they do the damage is the same as a broken belt but often more expensive to fix due to the way the chains are tensioned and the cost of the chain itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?

No but they should be inspected regularly and its really not advisable to skip or stretch oil changes.

Timing chains don't break but they do stretch and when they do the damage is the same as a broken belt but often more expensive to fix due to the way the chains are tensioned and the cost of the chain itself."

Id rather go chain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?

No but they should be inspected regularly and its really not advisable to skip or stretch oil changes.

Timing chains don't break but they do stretch and when they do the damage is the same as a broken belt but often more expensive to fix due to the way the chains are tensioned and the cost of the chain itself.

Id rather go chain. "

I'd rather go Koenigsegg!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?

No but they should be inspected regularly and its really not advisable to skip or stretch oil changes.

Timing chains don't break but they do stretch and when they do the damage is the same as a broken belt but often more expensive to fix due to the way the chains are tensioned and the cost of the chain itself.

Id rather go chain.

I'd rather go Koenigsegg! "

Its a bugger to park.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Chains have their own problems that people seem to think don't exist, no matter how many wheels you have.

Tis true. But you don't have to replace them as often do you?

No but they should be inspected regularly and its really not advisable to skip or stretch oil changes.

Timing chains don't break but they do stretch and when they do the damage is the same as a broken belt but often more expensive to fix due to the way the chains are tensioned and the cost of the chain itself.

Id rather go chain.

I'd rather go Koenigsegg!

Its a bugger to park."

Couldn't possibly be harder than my Alfa GT. I often wonder why they even bothered to fit a rear screen, all you can see out of it is the sky!

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though."

Never knew you was a biker

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Buy a car that doesn't use a cam belt.

Are you talking chains, gear drive or the new Koenigsegg system that's electronically controlled?

Chains man, in into chains.... Had gears on my VFR and my last Ducati though.

Never knew you was a biker "

I can only apologise.

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