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work place disciplinary

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo

So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't forget you have the right to have some one with you and they have to prove it was you behind any doubt

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo

Well from what I can make out this photo appears to have been taken by the person claiming they got hurt and I'd say with the bruising it wasn't taken that day so it leads to to think it what he sent to hr so surely that can't be used as evidence as there no proof it's his leg when it was taken ect, I was reversing went to turn the bend and nudged the pallet apparently into him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And so i believe the picture needs to be taken on a non digital camera,so it cant be altered.It should be taken on a standard old style film camera.So ive been informed.If your in a union get them involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Digital photo?

Ask to see the exif data will give the camera model the date and time and possibly the gps location if theyve enabled it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And so i believe the picture needs to be taken on a non digital camera,so it cant be altered.It should be taken on a standard old style film camera.So ive been informed.If your in a union get them involved."

You can edit film just as easily as digital. (Easier these days as once its printed out theres no way to check for the various artificats in the image that would suggest editing.

But then again noone is going to be paying for image analysis for something as petty as this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well from what I can make out this photo appears to have been taken by the person claiming they got hurt and I'd say with the bruising it wasn't taken that day so it leads to to think it what he sent to hr so surely that can't be used as evidence as there no proof it's his leg when it was taken ect, I was reversing went to turn the bend and nudged the pallet apparently into him "

In our place unless he reported it as an accident on the day it occured when it occured hed be out of luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?"

You seem very very worried about this matter. Did you realise at the time of the accident that someone was injured?

Picture taken on a phone? Was picture taken on site?did the injured party, report injury and have it entered in h+s log

Btw h+s exe only contacted if absence due to injury for several days.

Take someone with you.

If you need during interview, call for a 10min break to think it through.

Paul

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't forget you have the right to have some one with you and they have to prove it was you behind any doubt "

Not for civil cases.

Only criminal cases have the beyond reasonable doubt caveat.

Civil is much more lax

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?"

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well from what I can make out this photo appears to have been taken by the person claiming they got hurt and I'd say with the bruising it wasn't taken that day so it leads to to think it what he sent to hr so surely that can't be used as evidence as there no proof it's his leg when it was taken ect, I was reversing went to turn the bend and nudged the pallet apparently into him

In our place unless he reported it as an accident on the day it occured when it occured hed be out of luck.

"

As long as it is reported within 24hrs in the accident book.

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By *ll of a QuiverCouple
over a year ago

Douglas

Are there any cameras in the workplace which may show what happened?

Also, i'd be asking why were they stood next to the pallet in an area where forklifts are operating.

If they were obscured from view, they are at fault also.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

think this is gonna be a case of , if theyre tryin to blame you for being negligant type thing not watching where you where going etc , , , daft cunt was stood behind pallets and also has eyes and ears , im sat in a forklift truck and cant really hear nothing , i think the supposedly injured person shouldnt have put himself in such a stupid place , knowing its a dangerous area as moving forklifts etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or maybe the guy is not at it and was genuinely injured as a result of let's be honest your carelessness , if you bumped the pallets did you not get off the fork lift and check the area ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it. "

totally agree

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"Or maybe the guy is not at it and was genuinely injured as a result of let's be honest your carelessness , if you bumped the pallets did you not get off the fork lift and check the area ?"
I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree "

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Or maybe the guy is not at it and was genuinely injured as a result of let's be honest your carelessness , if you bumped the pallets did you not get off the fork lift and check the area ?I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process"

All any rep would say who was helping the other fella would be what Medical school did you attend to be able to diagnose there injury ?

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury."

Well as a union rep is the photo that was taken by him at a unknown time and place advisable as evidence against me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Or maybe the guy is not at it and was genuinely injured as a result of let's be honest your carelessness , if you bumped the pallets did you not get off the fork lift and check the area ?I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process"

at the end of the day accidents do happen , thats what cscs and ppe etc is all about ,, and it say not anywhere in the cscs handbook , stand behind pallets in a forklift area , yes you bumped a pallet , but he put himself in the position of harm

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"Or maybe the guy is not at it and was genuinely injured as a result of let's be honest your carelessness , if you bumped the pallets did you not get off the fork lift and check the area ?I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process

at the end of the day accidents do happen , thats what cscs and ppe etc is all about ,, and it say not anywhere in the cscs handbook , stand behind pallets in a forklift area , yes you bumped a pallet , but he put himself in the position of harm "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury."

Yeah but as a union rep you are there for your member and not management. So you only need your members side of the story unless they produce evidence to prove other wise then your job is to lighten the blow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury.

Yeah but as a union rep you are there for your member and not management. So you only need your members side of the story unless they produce evidence to prove other wise then your job is to lighten the blow. "

But the injured party could be a union member too...

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury.

Yeah but as a union rep you are there for your member and not management. So you only need your members side of the story unless they produce evidence to prove other wise then your job is to lighten the blow.

But the injured party could be a union member too...

"
none of us are covered by a union

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury.

Yeah but as a union rep you are there for your member and not management. So you only need your members side of the story unless they produce evidence to prove other wise then your job is to lighten the blow.

But the injured party could be a union member too...

That would be down to the injured party to have a seperate rep, one rep cannot represent two party's in the same case as its a conflict of interest.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?"

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death "

Just for being a lefty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death

Just for being a lefty "

Yes and amongest other things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just do what most people do m8, go off with work related stress and blame the unfounded accusations as the cause. Lol

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death

Just for being a lefty

Yes and amongest other things

"

Like???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death

Just for being a lefty

Yes and amongest other things

Like???"

You know exactly what I'm on about

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo


"So it seems I've been a naughty boy at work I bumped my forklift truck into a pallet well someone was claiming to have been the other side of it and got hurt,now I have to have a disciplinary and was given a picture of the bruising I apparently caused, as this photo is being used against me should it be time/date stamped to prove it was taken after the accident?

Guilty as charge

Ur sentenced to death

Just for being a lefty

Yes and amongest other things

Like???

You know exactly what I'm on about "

Do I

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

were they in a high vis vest just to ask?

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

I dont work with fork lifts but as others have said - should they have been there - right there and then, should they have been so close to the pallets, did you look, did they not hear it reversing (bleeping), pallets do get bumped (it doesn't mean you are not competent). A disciplinary sounds harsh over an investigation into what happened.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Surely it was reported in the accident book and an investigation was dome at the time with appropriate learning outcomes and actions taken?

Have they said it's a disciplinary or just a meeting to discuss? If it's a disciplinary then you have the right to be accompanied by someone even though you are not in a union. What are the charges of the disciplinary? Have you been given a copy of all the evidence to review before the meeting?

Seems odd to have a disciplinary for something like this to be honest. Unless you were driving the forklift in a dangerous manner, without proper training etc accidents can and will happen.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Bruising can take some time to come out and if it's yellow it's an older bruise than purple/blue.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester

If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?"

Health and safety states each individual is responsible for their own safety.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Ohhh ment to ask how old is your certificate of basic training. If you don't no find out it could be your get out of jail card if it's older than 3 years

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?

Health and safety states each individual is responsible for their own safety. "

Not with regards to flts it doesn't

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?

Health and safety states each individual is responsible for their own safety.

Not with regards to flts it doesn't "

I wouldn't know that. I work in an office. Always getting paper clip danger warnings.

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By *estmidscoupleCouple
over a year ago

West Midlands

YOU need sight of accident book entry, if bruising caused 7+day absence was it reported under RIDDOR? Any witnesses? Did you give statement, if not write up your recollections now. ANy CCTV covering area? Any restrictions on pedestrians in area, signage? If person WAS there, were they wearing requisite PPE.

INvestigated similar 10 years ago and the injured party was a fraud, may sound sneaky but can you or someone else check their social media feed to see if they were doing anything active after accident. Say this due to recent one where woman fell down stairs and badly injured etc yet was clubbing that weekend with pics on Facebook.

As others have said, check your training records, ask for risk assessment for activity and ask to see investigation and all paperwork on the accident.If in union, take rep to meeting, if not take a firend/colleague and request HR and line manager to be there and insist it is minuted accurately. If still unhappy suggest at the meeting that you are considering taking legal advice and get that minuted. best of luck

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?

Health and safety states each individual is responsible for their own safety. "

And the safety of others.

Don't forget that bit.

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"YOU need sight of accident book entry, if bruising caused 7+day absence was it reported under RIDDOR? Any witnesses? Did you give statement, if not write up your recollections now. ANy CCTV covering area? Any restrictions on pedestrians in area, signage? If person WAS there, were they wearing requisite PPE.

INvestigated similar 10 years ago and the injured party was a fraud, may sound sneaky but can you or someone else check their social media feed to see if they were doing anything active after accident. Say this due to recent one where woman fell down stairs and badly injured etc yet was clubbing that weekend with pics on Facebook.

As others have said, check your training records, ask for risk assessment for activity and ask to see investigation and all paperwork on the accident.If in union, take rep to meeting, if not take a firend/colleague and request HR and line manager to be there and insist it is minuted accurately. If still unhappy suggest at the meeting that you are considering taking legal advice and get that minuted. best of luck"

All very sound advice head it well. Also was your training given by a RTITB accredited instructor. Sound to me like you probably work for a smallish company so your best bet is tie them up in red tape and the best way to do that is knowing the law better than them and making it as much hassle for your employer as possible. What me a unionist perish the thought

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most warehouses now have cctv see if the incedent was picked up on security cameras also was he wearing a high vis jacket at the time of said accident could you see him and most importantly do you remember the incident good luck

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By *rneilMan
over a year ago

rochester and pembrokshire

Ok there are a few things to query here. First off should the guy be where he was at the time of said accident. If he was behind a pallet then he was in a crush area shouldn't have been there. Was your pathway clear is there enough room to manoeuvre the fork lift . Were your reversing bleeper working. Did this guy report the said incident immediately and did he receive first aid that should be in the accident book immediately. Was it reported to your supervisor immediately. Have the staff had a talk about the incident since this happend. We're you drug and alcohol tested immediately after the incident. Has there been an investigation into the cause. If none of these things have happened it's all in your favour ask why not . Get back to me if need be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/01/16 08:41:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You bumped into the pallet. This is your fault. There are plenty of reasons why someone could have been standing next to a pallet and out of your eyesight.

I would point out to the meeting that accidents happen, you're incredibly sorry, and you'd like further training so that you don't make the mistake again.

Then tell the injured person you're sorry, and ask if you can make it up to them somehow.

You know, because that's what a decent warehouse operative would do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they hav e used a mobile phone and they have not switched off the geo tagging, there will be a treasure trove of information on the picture. It should have time and date also the place where it was taken, hope it helps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had you followed all the correct procedures

were they in an area that they shouldn't have been?

were you reversing or going forwards?

were they standing or crouching or obscured from your field of vision.

did they attend A&E?

As it's a work place accident/injury has the Health and safety exec been informed?

or are they trying it on?

Also was this employee permitted to be in this area behind the pallets and was he waiting appropriate PPE.

I think a good union rep would soon have this tossed out m8, I wouldn't worry about it.

totally agree

I am a union rep and a good one , and we do not have enough information as to decide, we are only hearing one side of the story and that is the side of a worker who possibly caused a colleagues injury.

Well as a union rep is the photo that was taken by him at a unknown time and place advisable as evidence against me? "

I'm a union rep and no it isn't without a date and time on it. Most importantly have H and S been involved in the process? Ask to see the accident report, if they plan to discipline you make sure they've gone through the right procedures, a minimum of what they must do is set out by ACAS, many companies fail to follow this simple process. Are there permitted walk areas? If not why not? If there are and he was in a permitted walk area why are pallets stacked next to it? In one way or another the company are to blame here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Next time corden the area off so he can't claim you did it again, as people should not be near fork lift trucks when they are operating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that. "

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!"

"Bumping" pallets with a forklift will move them quite a bit. It's not as gentle as it sounds. It could easily shove you a foot or two across the floor, causing you to fall over, or fall onto some other goods. It could even knock goods off of the pallet and on top of you quite easily if it was a pallet that was waiting to be wrapped (or had been unwrapped for some purpose).

The fact is, that he *did* hit someone else - by shoving a pallet into them. That's a very big, very heavy thing. I had a similar thing happen where an *empty* palette got shoved into my shin by a *very slow* FLT. It left a bruise that was up for a couple of weeks and it was very painful.

The injury is *everything* to do with the OP. If the OP had not "bumped" into the palette, the person would not be injured!

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it."

I'll post my RTITB flt instructor examiner certification to admin forth with for your perusal

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By *ceman619Man
over a year ago

Sunderland

I would suggest the injured person should not of been there as op could not see them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I'll post my RTITB flt instructor examiner certification to admin forth with for your perusal "

S'alright - yours made sense.

I love how people imagine though that nobody ever stands and looks at a pile of palettes. Or that if a person is in the same space as a FLT then the company is doing something wrong.

I wonder how people think that the goods get on the palette in order for the palette to be collected by the FLT...

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it."

I always despair when so much advice encourages the OP to go into an investigative meeting with such a belligerent attitude, knowing full well that they wouldn't do the same in his shoes, nor will be there for him when it all goes tits up.

Whereas an apologetic and more sympathic attitude from the start, while subtlety pointing out any valid improvements, could have done so much more to defuse the situation.

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/01/16 09:19:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!

"Bumping" pallets with a forklift will move them quite a bit. It's not as gentle as it sounds. It could easily shove you a foot or two across the floor, causing you to fall over, or fall onto some other goods. It could even knock goods off of the pallet and on top of you quite easily if it was a pallet that was waiting to be wrapped (or had been unwrapped for some purpose).

The fact is, that he *did* hit someone else - by shoving a pallet into them. That's a very big, very heavy thing. I had a similar thing happen where an *empty* palette got shoved into my shin by a *very slow* FLT. It left a bruise that was up for a couple of weeks and it was very painful.

The injury is *everything* to do with the OP. If the OP had not "bumped" into the palette, the person would not be injured!"

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding how a pile of pallets moves etc. but I read the OP as though he thought the other guy wasn't injured by him at all and was trying it on. Maybe I'm misunderstood?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!

"Bumping" pallets with a forklift will move them quite a bit. It's not as gentle as it sounds. It could easily shove you a foot or two across the floor, causing you to fall over, or fall onto some other goods. It could even knock goods off of the pallet and on top of you quite easily if it was a pallet that was waiting to be wrapped (or had been unwrapped for some purpose).

The fact is, that he *did* hit someone else - by shoving a pallet into them. That's a very big, very heavy thing. I had a similar thing happen where an *empty* palette got shoved into my shin by a *very slow* FLT. It left a bruise that was up for a couple of weeks and it was very painful.

The injury is *everything* to do with the OP. If the OP had not "bumped" into the palette, the person would not be injured!

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding how a pile of pallets moves etc. but I read the OP as though he thought the other guy wasn't injured by him at all and was trying it on. Maybe I'm misunderstood?"

The way it's worded, to me it sounds like the OP reckons he might have hurt someone and is trying to save his bacon.

Different ways of reading, and all that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!

"Bumping" pallets with a forklift will move them quite a bit. It's not as gentle as it sounds. It could easily shove you a foot or two across the floor, causing you to fall over, or fall onto some other goods. It could even knock goods off of the pallet and on top of you quite easily if it was a pallet that was waiting to be wrapped (or had been unwrapped for some purpose).

The fact is, that he *did* hit someone else - by shoving a pallet into them. That's a very big, very heavy thing. I had a similar thing happen where an *empty* palette got shoved into my shin by a *very slow* FLT. It left a bruise that was up for a couple of weeks and it was very painful.

The injury is *everything* to do with the OP. If the OP had not "bumped" into the palette, the person would not be injured!

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding how a pile of pallets moves etc. but I read the OP as though he thought the other guy wasn't injured by him at all and was trying it on. Maybe I'm misunderstood?"

I quote from the OP:

"I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process"

So the OP knows he did hit someone, but just doesn't believe *how* hurt they were.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What a heart warming thread.

"I made a mistake at work, a colleague claims to be injured as a result. How can I prove he's faking so that I can minimise the impact to me of my own mistake? "

OP, you've already said that you shouldn't have hit the pallets. Man up a accept responsibility for that.

He's not disputing his cock up. But if he just hit the pallets and no one else, it would be a 'near miss' and left at that. If someone else involves them self, it becomes more serious. Unfair if the 'injury' isn't even to do with the OP!

"Bumping" pallets with a forklift will move them quite a bit. It's not as gentle as it sounds. It could easily shove you a foot or two across the floor, causing you to fall over, or fall onto some other goods. It could even knock goods off of the pallet and on top of you quite easily if it was a pallet that was waiting to be wrapped (or had been unwrapped for some purpose).

The fact is, that he *did* hit someone else - by shoving a pallet into them. That's a very big, very heavy thing. I had a similar thing happen where an *empty* palette got shoved into my shin by a *very slow* FLT. It left a bruise that was up for a couple of weeks and it was very painful.

The injury is *everything* to do with the OP. If the OP had not "bumped" into the palette, the person would not be injured!

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding how a pile of pallets moves etc. but I read the OP as though he thought the other guy wasn't injured by him at all and was trying it on. Maybe I'm misunderstood?

The way it's worded, to me it sounds like the OP reckons he might have hurt someone and is trying to save his bacon.

Different ways of reading, and all that."

Well if the way you read it is correct, I agree wholeheartedly with you!

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it."

If the guy is in a disciplinary - it means he could lose his job. yeah - he should have been looking out but if proper controls should be in place that is a different matter. I would think if the guy is looking to put a claim in, the company often like the fall guy to be the worker before them, as it looks like they have taken action.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you can remember back to you basic fork lift training 1 of the questions asked in your theory test was "who is responsible for keeping a flt and pedestrian separated" A/ the pedestrian B/your employer C/you. Can you remember the right answer ?

Health and safety states each individual is responsible for their own safety.

Not with regards to flts it doesn't "

When I did my training I was taught that I'm responsible for my truck. Should be aware of my surroundings at all times, even if it's a no pedestrian area.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry health and safety is a broadchurch, warehouse or building site. The easiest way to get the company bricking it is as mentioned, RIDDOR, how long was the employee off,? Say you feel the HSE should come investigate. I've a sneaky feeling this company have very poor h and s that's the reason behind this ACCIDENT! And some of those hang drawn and quarterers are over looking a companies responsibility completely

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I always despair when so much advice encourages the OP to go into an investigative meeting with such a belligerent attitude, knowing full well that they wouldn't do the same in his shoes, nor will be there for him when it all goes tits up.

Whereas an apologetic and more sympathic attitude from the start, while subtlety pointing out any valid improvements, could have done so much more to defuse the situation.

Mr ddc"

I work for a trade union: head of personal injury. I also act as investigating officer for disciplinaries etc.

You won't be surprised the difference in outcome when people put their hands up and say sorry compared to those with a bad attitude, belligerence, squirming to minimise their actions whilst blaming everybody else!

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By *ire_bladeMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I'll post my RTITB flt instructor examiner certification to admin forth with for your perusal

S'alright - yours made sense.

I love how people imagine though that nobody ever stands and looks at a pile of palettes. Or that if a person is in the same space as a FLT then the company is doing something wrong.

I wonder how people think that the goods get on the palette in order for the palette to be collected by the FLT..."

That's why I asked if he remembered the right answer to the theory test question way up there^. At the end of the day he's in the shit but we are all human and do make mistakes and visibility on any flt is poor to say the least. Also people do try it on to make a claim. sadly only the 2 involved will ever no the real truth in this.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I always despair when so much advice encourages the OP to go into an investigative meeting with such a belligerent attitude, knowing full well that they wouldn't do the same in his shoes, nor will be there for him when it all goes tits up.

Whereas an apologetic and more sympathic attitude from the start, while subtlety pointing out any valid improvements, could have done so much more to defuse the situation.

Mr ddc

I work for a trade union: head of personal injury. I also act as investigating officer for disciplinaries etc.

You won't be surprised the difference in outcome when people put their hands up and say sorry compared to those with a bad attitude, belligerence, squirming to minimise their actions whilst blaming everybody else!"

Hmmm I've been in a few and found on the whole the company know what they are looking to do before the hearing starts! You could blow smoke up their arses they won't change their mind! In fact the only time I remember a shift in attitude is when we got strong on poor management of working hours coordination and they knew they'd let something ride so long they were culpable to!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I always despair when so much advice encourages the OP to go into an investigative meeting with such a belligerent attitude, knowing full well that they wouldn't do the same in his shoes, nor will be there for him when it all goes tits up.

Whereas an apologetic and more sympathic attitude from the start, while subtlety pointing out any valid improvements, could have done so much more to defuse the situation.

Mr ddc

I work for a trade union: head of personal injury. I also act as investigating officer for disciplinaries etc.

You won't be surprised the difference in outcome when people put their hands up and say sorry compared to those with a bad attitude, belligerence, squirming to minimise their actions whilst blaming everybody else!

Hmmm I've been in a few and found on the whole the company know what they are looking to do before the hearing starts! You could blow smoke up their arses they won't change their mind! In fact the only time I remember a shift in attitude is when we got strong on poor management of working hours coordination and they knew they'd let something ride so long they were culpable to! "

I represent members at dusciplinaries too so know what you say is true. When I've read investigation reports it's been obvious that no matter what I put forward or our member says will make a blind bit of difference.

My comment was more to do with my approach. Taking responsibility for ones own actions will more likely than not bode well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm wondering how much advice in this thread is actually being given by people who have worked in warehouses.

Not much by the sounds of it.

I always despair when so much advice encourages the OP to go into an investigative meeting with such a belligerent attitude, knowing full well that they wouldn't do the same in his shoes, nor will be there for him when it all goes tits up.

Whereas an apologetic and more sympathic attitude from the start, while subtlety pointing out any valid improvements, could have done so much more to defuse the situation.

Mr ddc

I work for a trade union: head of personal injury. I also act as investigating officer for disciplinaries etc.

You won't be surprised the difference in outcome when people put their hands up and say sorry compared to those with a bad attitude, belligerence, squirming to minimise their actions whilst blaming everybody else!

Hmmm I've been in a few and found on the whole the company know what they are looking to do before the hearing starts! You could blow smoke up their arses they won't change their mind! In fact the only time I remember a shift in attitude is when we got strong on poor management of working hours coordination and they knew they'd let something ride so long they were culpable to!

I represent members at dusciplinaries too so know what you say is true. When I've read investigation reports it's been obvious that no matter what I put forward or our member says will make a blind bit of difference.

My comment was more to do with my approach. Taking responsibility for ones own actions will more likely than not bode well."

I know when the disciplined employee gets aggressive it's a horrible atmosphere, had one tell me he was gonna cave the gaffers head in, I felt like the UN peace keeper! I prefer to be as matter of fact with them, and try and point out their errors, which 80% of the time there are (my estimation)

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

Hmmm I've been in a few and found on the whole the company know what they are looking to do before the hearing starts! You could blow smoke up their arses they won't change their mind! "

I've tended to be on the other side, and I can assure you that is rarely the case. In case it goes to a tribunal, the company has to show that they considered what was said. So normally two outcomes are planned and which one is chosen hinges on how the meeting goes. What decides which two options are chosen initially includes things like the employees past record, attitude towards management, attitude towards the injured party, willingness to ensure it won't happen again, whether there is a history between the two individuals, whether the other person might be 'trying it on', how up-to-date the training records are, whether the OP is coming across as a difficult buggar and this might be a useful opportunity to get shot of him, what the other person was doing there... all sorts of things.

But let's not forget, the company has a duty to ensure that someone isn't more seriously injured next week. That will be weighing on their mind too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Hmmm I've been in a few and found on the whole the company know what they are looking to do before the hearing starts! You could blow smoke up their arses they won't change their mind!

I've tended to be on the other side, and I can assure you that is rarely the case. In case it goes to a tribunal, the company has to show that they considered what was said. So normally two outcomes are planned and which one is chosen hinges on how the meeting goes. What decides which two options are chosen initially includes things like the employees past record, attitude towards management, attitude towards the injured party, willingness to ensure it won't happen again, whether there is a history between the two individuals, whether the other person might be 'trying it on', how up-to-date the training records are, whether the OP is coming across as a difficult buggar and this might be a useful opportunity to get shot of him, what the other person was doing there... all sorts of things.

But let's not forget, the company has a duty to ensure that someone isn't more seriously injured next week. That will be weighing on their mind too."

Sorry find that hard to believe, and talking to other union reps it's a pretty much agreed theory! The adjournments we had on the one case where they wanted to sack the lad backed it up, they had to get HR in and I'm 100% that was to re evaluate their response

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"

Sorry find that hard to believe, and talking to other union reps it's a pretty much agreed theory! The adjournments we had on the one case where they wanted to sack the lad backed it up, they had to get HR in and I'm 100% that was to re evaluate their response "

No, you might be right, I've been assuming that the OP was muddling a disciplinary with a formal investigative interview (which most people do), but I've reread his posts, and assuming he was handed the photograph by the employer, we might already be onto the end-game, in which case the die is probably already cast.

I was told you should ALWAYS have an adjournment every time. In fact the one time I was on the other side we won purely on the fact that the company didn't! (I argued that without an adjournment to discuss the implications of what was said, it proved the company had gone into the meeting with a closed mind, which made the whole procedure invalid.)

Even so a positive, co-operative attitude is his best way to improve his chances. Don't forget there will be no union rep in his case...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He can take a recon as his representative they just can't answer his questions

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"He can take a recon as his representative they just can't answer his questions "

Taking a friend, a family member or a fellow worker who is impartial is one of the bits of advice I hope he does take. Whilst not formally allowed to get involved, most companies will turn a blind eye if they feel they're helping the meeting stay calm. Plus another employee is often best placed to put forward any mitigation as unbiased.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He can take a recon as his representative they just can't answer his questions

Taking a friend, a family member or a fellow worker who is impartial is one of the bits of advice I hope he does take. Whilst not formally allowed to get involved, most companies will turn a blind eye if they feel they're helping the meeting stay calm. Plus another employee is often best placed to put forward any mitigation as unbiased."

I had several 'meetings' at a company I worked for (not a warehouse). In those situations I felt like my manager was looking to get rid of me due to personality differences. I found the most helpful thing to do in that situation was take a manager of equal seniority from a *different department* to my meetings.

He said nothing at all, but it made meetings much more balanced than I feel they might have been otherwise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I quote from the OP:

"I did check he was ok end of the day I put my hands up to bumping the pallet my bad I fucked up, but I think he used it as a excuse to get paid days off so he can start Christmas early and making it worse for me in the process"

So the OP knows he did hit someone, but just doesn't believe *how* hurt they were."

Like I said in a previous comment I understand someone coming out and saying they are not that badly hurt but unless you went to medical school you cannot really say. The amount of times at my work colleaues say "There is nothing wrong with him/her" I always say "What medical school did you attend "

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

Given that we know so revitalise, a lot of posters are proclaiming themselves to know an awful lot about this, such as did the person behind the pallet have a permit to be in the area, were the pedestrian warning lights on, was the person visible, was the op watching where they are going etc.

We know none of this yet we are posting arrogant bolshy tripe as if we have the faintest idea what we are talking about "because I know about warehouses" etc. It is all really rather silly.

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By *rinking-in-laCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Given that we know so revitalise, a lot of posters are proclaiming themselves to know an awful lot about this, such as did the person behind the pallet have a permit to be in the area, were the pedestrian warning lights on, was the person visible, was the op watching where they are going etc.

We know none of this yet we are posting arrogant bolshy tripe as if we have the faintest idea what we are talking about "because I know about warehouses" etc. It is all really rather silly."

Given that we know so little.

Sorry, don't know where my iPad got revitalise from.

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By *mmaNandy OP   Couple
over a year ago

wolvo

I moved it only nudged it the cctv showed it moved millimetres if at all, end of the day I went in put my hands up to it and got a written warning thanks for all your advice

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"I moved it only nudged it the cctv showed it moved millimetres if at all, end of the day I went in put my hands up to it and got a written warning thanks for all your advice "

Well done, and thanks for the update

Mr ddc

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By *ohnaronMan
over a year ago

london


"I moved it only nudged it the cctv showed it moved millimetres if at all, end of the day I went in put my hands up to it and got a written warning thanks for all your advice "

Phew I'm sure we are all relieved for you.

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