FabSwingers.com forum: Ethical Shopping

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Going on from a previous thread where Amazon was mentioned.

Do you take care to buy from a non sweat shop/zero contract employing tax dodging company?

Or do you buy without any thought into that side of things?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I buy with my finances in mind only. I can't afford to have a conscience about such things at this present time.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven't bought from Amazon for a couple of years. I try to buy ethically but it isn't always possible or practical.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iscean MaleMan
over a year ago

Darlaston

I try and buy british to support farmers etc.. but like previous posts. Governed by our own finances

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I refuse to buy from anywhere where child labour is used. I also want to change my pension to another company as mine is a major shareholder in BAE but it's proving to be really difficult.

I have a LOT of guilt over where my money goes. Usually means I end up spending more than planned.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *enard ArgenteMan
over a year ago

London and France

If you dig deep enough, you will find that almost no retailers or manufacturers can support an " ethical" claim.

And other initiatives have actually not worked;

A case in point is the so- called " fair trade" coffee; which is in reality anything but fair trade, having made many unscrupulous people very rich, and driven thousands of small coffee producers out of production and into greater poverty.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If you dig deep enough, you will find that almost no retailers or manufacturers can support an " ethical" claim.

And other initiatives have actually not worked;

The same for British produce you go to certain parts of the country and you see gang masters driving out bus loads into the countryside.

It's a minefield

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"Going on from a previous thread where Amazon was mentioned.

Do you take care to buy from a non sweat shop/zero contract employing tax dodging company?

Or do you buy without any thought into that side of things? "

Yes, all the effing time and it's very difficult

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Where would it stop, don't a lot of different companies have zero contracts, I couldn't think tombe checking every time I bought something, however I do support local companies and produce .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I buy with my finances in mind and the cheaper the better, within reason

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ittle Pocket PerveWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

"I buy with my finances in mind only. I can't afford to have a conscience about such things at this present time."

I agree, prices have increased but my wages haven't, so I buy where and what is affordable...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

It's not always practical but when it is I try to avoid companies like sports direct and papa johns

C...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's not always practical but when it is I try to avoid companies like sports direct and papa johns

C..."

What's Papa Johns do that's unethical?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Going on from a previous thread where Amazon was mentioned.

Do you take care to buy from a non sweat shop/zero contract employing tax dodging company?

Or do you buy without any thought into that side of things?

Yes, all the effing time and it's very difficult "

I agree

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce "

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *izzy.Woman
over a year ago

Stoke area

I support my local shops when possible. I support a scheme called totally locally.

I also avoid Nescafe products.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I support my local shops when possible. I support a scheme called totally locally.

I also avoid Nescafe products."

Nestlé are awful

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I buy organic milk...and try to avoid nestle..

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ittenandthepirateCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

This is something I'd like to do more where finances allow. If I'm going for coffee with someone, I always take them to my favourite place in town which is not for profit. Any profit goes to local charities. Plus it's much more relaxed in there than any of the big chains!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though. "

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce "

Ah will stick with dominoes

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

I try to but it's not always possible or practical to vett everything before purchase.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I avoid tax dodgers such as

Amazon

Starbucks

Uber

I try and avoid companies that pay below minimum wage such as

Monsoon

Uber

Subway

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

What did Amazon do??

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"I avoid tax dodgers such as

Amazon

Starbucks

Uber

I try and avoid companies that pay below minimum wage such as

Monsoon

Uber

Subway"

Oh... I get loads of stuff from Amazon. Have to save money where I can x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I have to admit to worrying more about animal welfare when buying anything.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I try and avoid companies that discriminate against the disabled such as

Uber.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?"

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We decided not get a diamond ring when we got engaged because of our concerns regarding ethics in the diamond trade.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's very difficult to buy ethically, or know the story behind every company.

I avoid some of the obvious ones - Amazon, Starbucks, Nestle - but find it easier to give custom to those who positively give back. I generally shop at Sainsbury's, for example, despite cheaper and nearer options due to the excellent work of The Sainsbury's Centre for Mental Health and their active funding for Visual Arts.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I buy from places that are cheap, can't afford otherwise generally. I do love Amazon as it's so easy and means i don't have to trail around shops (a physically painful experience for me).

I shop at Tesco cus i like it and the food is fine plus cheap.

I have no idea what nestle have done wrong.

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

If i avoid any firms it will be to do with how they treat animals.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy from places that are cheap, can't afford otherwise generally. I do love Amazon as it's so easy and means i don't have to trail around shops (a physically painful experience for me).

I shop at Tesco cus i like it and the food is fine plus cheap.

I have no idea what nestle have done wrong.

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

If i avoid any firms it will be to do with how they treat animals."

There's nothing inherently wrong with zero hours contracts, just that some employers abuse them. But that principle applies to most things, MPs were going around abusing expenses for while, doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with expenses!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What did Amazon do?? "

Amazon have been accused of overworking their warehouse staff.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals."

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?"

Okay...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'm somewhat mindful of where I'm sourcing stuff from. I ignore Amazon now as a source of anything but information.

Make more of our own things, including growing food, is better. Buy British, if it's well sourced.

No more unethical dildos.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy from places that are cheap, can't afford otherwise generally. I do love Amazon as it's so easy and means i don't have to trail around shops (a physically painful experience for me).

I shop at Tesco cus i like it and the food is fine plus cheap.

I have no idea what nestle have done wrong.

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

If i avoid any firms it will be to do with how they treat animals."

One thing Nestlé did was offer free milk to new mothers in poverty stricken areas. They offered just enough for the mothers to stop lactating naturally, and then began charging higher prices for the milk. On top of this, the milk powder had to be mixed with water and in lower economically developed countries, the water is polluted. Nestlé didn't bother including in the word of mouth marketing that the water needs to be sterile, only including it in text (which couldn't be read by most).

Just look for the Nestlé milk scandal.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy from places that are cheap, can't afford otherwise generally. I do love Amazon as it's so easy and means i don't have to trail around shops (a physically painful experience for me).

I shop at Tesco cus i like it and the food is fine plus cheap.

I have no idea what nestle have done wrong.

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

If i avoid any firms it will be to do with how they treat animals.

I know ! Lol

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Nestles are unethical for numerous reasons, not just the horrific milk scandal

C...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical "

But it's industrious and makes sense. Papa John's pays minimum wage, just like a whole bunch of other companies. I think the US arm has more issues than the UK.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What did Amazon do??

Amazon have been accused of overworking their warehouse staff. "

This, and the industrial-scale tax avoidance.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical "

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

We already have the 8th highest minimum wage in the world and there's a lot of evidence showing that raising it further has unintended consequences such as increasing youth unemployment and reducing disabled participation in the workforce.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy from places that are cheap, can't afford otherwise generally. I do love Amazon as it's so easy and means i don't have to trail around shops (a physically painful experience for me).

I shop at Tesco cus i like it and the food is fine plus cheap.

I have no idea what nestle have done wrong.

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

If i avoid any firms it will be to do with how they treat animals.

I know ! Lol"

I know you know, I'm backing up what you said / agreeing with you!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have one of the highest minimum wages because we have one of the highest costs of living.

Benefits aren't there to subsidise the poor, they subsidize rich business people and landlords.

The same voices who come out against raising living wages are the ones who were vocal against the minimum wage in the first place -with the same cataclysmic predictions, none of which came to pass.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

I actually agree with zero hours contracts as they work well for many people i know ... i am presuming that is why some places have been named as being avoided.

I know ! Lol

I know you know, I'm backing up what you said / agreeing with you! "

The problem with zero hour contracts is that too many firms use them in a way which disadvantages their workforce. Companies such as sports direct could easily afford to offer guaranteed minimum hours which would allow employees to make financial Planning. Also too many wealthy firms don't employ directly (they use in house agencies) so as to avoid Paying out for holiday pay, sick Pay And redundancy etc. For me this is unethical especially as often positions are minimum wage.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral."
I haven't mentioned anything about morals. The CEO of Papa Johns made a statement recently rubbishing the idea of raising the minimum wage to a level where a sustainable living could be attained is a socialist plot and would be detrimental to both company profits and the quality of their pizzas.

In future I shall endeavour to by my pizzas from companies that do not expect to pay wages so low that their staff can only survive by receiving state handouts.

C...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are also many work places (such as mine) that would end up closing for ever if they werent allowed to use zero hour contracts, we couldnt function without them.

The people who have them have chosen to have them, it works well for them and us.

Plus they earn lots more an hour than us ordinary workers earn !

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral."

So true

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral. I haven't mentioned anything about morals. The CEO of Papa Johns made a statement recently rubbishing the idea of raising the minimum wage to a level where a sustainable living could be attained is a socialist plot and would be detrimental to both company profits and the quality of their pizzas.

In future I shall endeavour to by my pizzas from companies that do not expect to pay wages so low that their staff can only survive by receiving state handouts.

C..."

Maybe your energy would be better directed at the people that actually set tax policies and minimum wages. Do domino's pay their staff better or they just didn't say something you don't like?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've honestly never considered where any thing I've ever bought has come from or how it was produced.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

In future I shall endeavour to by my pizzas from companies that do not expect to pay wages so low that their staff can only survive by receiving state handouts.

C...

Maybe your energy would be better directed at the people that actually set tax policies and minimum wages. Do domino's pay their staff better or they just didn't say something you don't like? "
why should I direct my energies anywhere? It's not as if I am compelled to eat papa johns pizza. There are lots of local family run restaurants I can use if I decide I want a take away. If I choose to not spend my (hard earned) money with a multi national company with a business plan that in effect relies on indirect state handouts to operate, that is my prerogative. It's not as if it is an ailing British manufacturer in a community that is the only source of employment in the area.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 27/12/15 20:32:21]

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not always practical but when it is I try to avoid companies like sports direct and papa johns

C...

What's Papa Johns do that's unethical?

So at this point i've concluded that they don't 'do' anything different to any other pizza outlet. But they did say something that upsets certain people.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"It's not always practical but when it is I try to avoid companies like sports direct and papa johns

C...

What's Papa Johns do that's unethical?

So at this point i've concluded that they don't 'do' anything different to any other pizza outlet. But they did say something that upsets certain people. "
i suggest you look up the egotistical rants of their CEO to see what the difference is.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah, I try and buy ethically where I can. I try and buy almost all my books second hand for instance - and I call the local bookshop to see if they have a copy of something before going online and ordering a copy to be delivered. I tend to treat myself though when it's a small, niche publisher who I'd like to support.

We buy lots of our food from local shops. Both the farm shops/markets and the local Polish and Chinese supermarkets. We want these places to stay in our town, so we support them when we can.

I've started to make all my clothes too. It had become too hard to buy ethically sourced clothes at the kind of money I could afford in the styles I wanted. So I put my ability to sew to good use and this year my goal is to buy no new clothes from the high street (underwear, socks, and sports gear is the exception). The occasional geek t-shirt is a treat, but to be honest I really have too many.

Coffee shops? Always hard. I prefer Costa - not only because the coffee is the best, but because they've launched an environmental and labour best practices campaign.

I buy alot from Amazon. Much of the stuff I want to buy simply can't be got from anywhere else without large surcharges. I used to work in warehouses. The work is tough. I don't doubt that Amazon are 'overworking' their staff, because most warehouses overwork their staff.

I like to buy British where I can. And where I can't buy British (like for example my camera gear) I like to buy from a high street shop - even if the internet is cheaper. Especially when it comes to technology. I like to support the infrastructure (like camera shops) that will only survive if we buy from British shops rather than grey imports from eBay. As a pro I understand that I need the brands to operate strongly in this country, and if I buy from China, for instance, the British arm of the company don't get to report that sale and they don't get that money for their own marketing and advertising, and for their repair hubs.

We might live in a global world, but we have to realise that some services we really need to keep local. And those services will only stay local if we support them. Which means not voting with our wallet, and occasionally taking a financial hit for the future.

I read something a while back that said when we need things to change for the better for the poor (such as with Hugh's War On Waste), it's the middle classes that need to make the first move. As a middle class person I can afford to spend a few extra quid here and there to support causes I believe are important. And if enough of us do that, then the benefits will hopefully be passed on to those in society who can't afford a few extra quid.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"Yeah, I try and buy ethically where I can. I try and buy almost all my books second hand for instance - and I call the local bookshop to see if they have a copy of something before going online and ordering a copy to be delivered. I tend to treat myself though when it's a small, niche publisher who I'd like to support.

We buy lots of our food from local shops. Both the farm shops/markets and the local Polish and Chinese supermarkets. We want these places to stay in our town, so we support them when we can.

Coffee shops? Always hard. I prefer Costa - not only because the coffee is the best, but because they've launched an environmental and labour best practices campaign.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

It's also nice to support small, independent shops. It's a shame now days that all high streets seem to look the same

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy with my finances in mind only. I can't afford to have a conscience about such things at this present time."

this is me apart from eggs - have to have free range - does that count

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Meh its a bit of an oxy moron for the West anyway.

Any shoping you do here is unethical somewhere along its chain.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I refuse to buy from anywhere where child labour is used. I also want to change my pension to another company as mine is a major shareholder in BAE but it's proving to be really difficult.

I have a LOT of guilt over where my money goes. Usually means I end up spending more than planned. "
.

Funnily enough Dave has just forced local councils to stop banning companies like..

Tobacco, arms companies, fracking, asbestos.... Yadda yadda yadda!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"this is me apart from eggs - have to have free range - does that count

I'd say so

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is me apart from eggs - have to have free range - does that count

I'd say so

yay

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral."
.

Interestingly enough... During the debate in the late 1700s about banning slavery...

Nearly everybody who was pro slavery thought that we" just couldn't afford " to ban it..

It was rarely argued about the moral issue but nearly totally on economics!...

Of course by the early 1800s, it was banned and we never look back and go.... Oh you know that free black slave thing... That was an economic disaster!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

Good quality black slaves were more expensive than cheap Irish ones. Economics factored into the slave trade even then

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in the textile industry,when the minimum wage came in,it wrecked the wages for the weavers.I still work in the industry and I was getting paid £2.00 a hour more 20 years ago than what they get now.Minimum wage is a swear word to some of the old weavers.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

"I work in the textile industry,when the minimum wage came in,it wrecked the wages for the weavers.I still work in the industry and I was getting paid £2.00 a hour more 20 years ago than what they get now.Minimum wage is a swear word to some of the old weavers."

Nothing to do with cheap foreign imports?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think all ethical shopping goes out of the window if people think they can save thirty bob on something.

All this "I don't do sweat shops , child labour , tax avoiders , disable discriminators" takes a back seat if you can gain a 20p on something.

I witness it everyday.

People will use the most unethical companies just to save the equivalent of the price of a cheap cup of tea.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nothing to do with cheap foreign imports?"

NO. ..you could see as soon as it was brought in when jobs got advertised.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I buy with my finances in mind only. I can't afford to have a conscience about such things at this present time.

this is me apart from eggs - have to have free range - does that count

I had forgotten eggs, i always buy free range eggs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral..

Interestingly enough... During the debate in the late 1700s about banning slavery...

Nearly everybody who was pro slavery thought that we" just couldn't afford " to ban it..

It was rarely argued about the moral issue but nearly totally on economics!...

Of course by the early 1800s, it was banned and we never look back and go.... Oh you know that free black slave thing... That was an economic disaster!"

What a nonsense comparison! Slaves had notoriously awful productivity as there was absolutely no motivation to do anything more than the minimum to avoid punishment.

I swear some people on this forum think that money grows on trees and all we have to do is plant more trees to raise living standards.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral..

Interestingly enough... During the debate in the late 1700s about banning slavery...

Nearly everybody who was pro slavery thought that we" just couldn't afford " to ban it..

It was rarely argued about the moral issue but nearly totally on economics!...

Of course by the early 1800s, it was banned and we never look back and go.... Oh you know that free black slave thing... That was an economic disaster!

What a nonsense comparison! Slaves had notoriously awful productivity as there was absolutely no motivation to do anything more than the minimum to avoid punishment.

I swear some people on this forum think that money grows on trees and all we have to do is plant more trees to raise living standards. "
.

Ooh I kinda liked it as well, mind you I like looking at interesting historical outlooks of problems and how they actually turned out!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The guy that runs papa johns spoke out against increasing the minimum wage, basically he wants taxpayers to subsidise his workforce

Papa Johns in the UK are mostly franchises though.

Then get another franchise!

A lot of fast food chains are franchises.

I refuse to give my patronage to a franchise where the licensor is ethically unsound. Happy now?

Having a different opinion to you is not the definition of "ethically unsound". That was simply a question of economics, not morals.

It is his opinion that the state should subsidise and top up the income of his vast multi national corporation rather than pay his staff a living wage and benefits.

That is wholly unethical

No because you've attempted to over simplify a complex issue into a sentence.

There's nothing moral about keeping wages high by keeping others unemployed. Not everyone who disagrees with you is immoral..

Interestingly enough... During the debate in the late 1700s about banning slavery...

Nearly everybody who was pro slavery thought that we" just couldn't afford " to ban it..

It was rarely argued about the moral issue but nearly totally on economics!...

Of course by the early 1800s, it was banned and we never look back and go.... Oh you know that free black slave thing... That was an economic disaster!

What a nonsense comparison! Slaves had notoriously awful productivity as there was absolutely no motivation to do anything more than the minimum to avoid punishment.

I swear some people on this forum think that money grows on trees and all we have to do is plant more trees to raise living standards. .

Ooh I kinda liked it as well, mind you I like looking at interesting historical outlooks of problems and how they actually turned out!"

Then take a look at the 70's see what happens when wages go up and productivity doesn't.