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Snoopers charter version 2

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By *john121 OP   Man
over a year ago

staffs

So, who'll be keeping their online profile if the Gvt get their way?

All your internet and email traffic will be saved for 12months and available!

Or do you simply don't give a chuff?

Apple and other tech organisations claim it will just make it easy for the bad guys and not help at all and in fact make it easy to hack people's info?

Is this a bridge too far between govt and your right to privacy?

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By *ratty_DamselWoman
over a year ago

Greater London

It already happens, dosen't it?

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By *arlock69Man
over a year ago

Batley... (near Leeds)

They snoop on us already so who gives a fuck if they continue... FUCK THE TORY SCUM!!...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It already happens, dosen't it? "

Anybody who thinks it doesn't is sadly deluded. I'd only be worried if I had something to hide. Like maybe the fact I am a member of a swinging website......oh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They snoop on us already so who gives a fuck if they continue... FUCK THE TORY SCUM!!..."

Whilst I agree entirely with your sentiments, I feel I must point out that Labour also wanted this. Its really only the lib dems who stood against it. So its not just the Tories, its "the man" in general.

We don't need these parties changing their policies, as they are all proven liars. We need completely new parties. Ones whose ranks are not filled with ex MPs of past hues, that are tainted with the corruption power has given them. We need people governing who don't need reminding that they are there to do our bidding, not the other way round.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

Once again, they won't be able to tell whether you accessed the site as a guest or a member.

...plus, by the time they're looking at your history, you've already done something to attract attention. So it could be said that you still have control of whether the government checks your history...

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By *arlock69Man
over a year ago

Batley... (near Leeds)


"They snoop on us already so who gives a fuck if they continue... FUCK THE TORY SCUM!!...

Whilst I agree entirely with your sentiments, I feel I must point out that Labour also wanted this. Its really only the lib dems who stood against it. So its not just the Tories, its "the man" in general.

We don't need these parties changing their policies, as they are all proven liars. We need completely new parties. Ones whose ranks are not filled with ex MPs of past hues, that are tainted with the corruption power has given them. We need people governing who don't need reminding that they are there to do our bidding, not the other way round."

All political parties are controlled by the Rothschild family... It's how it has always been because we the people allow it!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I struggle to see why the likes of GCHQ et al would be in the slightest bit phased by the mildly nutty world of Fab. As long as their data integrity protocols prevent some nugget accidentally broadcasting personal details, I'm relaxed. I suspect they have mildly bigger fish to fry.

Right boss, we've found three terrorist cells plotting to hit the UK imminently, but there's also a guy over there with fourteen badly lit pictures of his knob - who shall we send the boys after??????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'they've' been reading you browser history and much more besides for years, the only difference is now they're telling you they are doing it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I struggle to see why the likes of GCHQ et al would be in the slightest bit phased by the mildly nutty world of Fab. As long as their data integrity protocols prevent some nugget accidentally broadcasting personal details, I'm relaxed. I suspect they have mildly bigger fish to fry.

Right boss, we've found three terrorist cells plotting to hit the UK imminently, but there's also a guy over there with fourteen badly lit pictures of his knob - who shall we send the boys after??????

"

But there in lies the presumption that only GCHQ will be using the information. What would some lowlife hack from the Sun or Daily Sport do with such information. Everything has its price, we've seen that in the phone hacking scandal!

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I mean, if Teresa May isn't free to go through your emails and check what porn sites you've been visiting for the last year on the off-chance you might be a little bit terrorist, what isn't fair in this day and age?

And it's not like the G'ment would *ever* lose any of our previous, precious data.

What could possibly go wrong?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Chuff... I don't give one!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Once again, they won't be able to tell whether you accessed the site as a guest or a member.

...plus, by the time they're looking at your history, you've already done something to attract attention. So it could be said that you still have control of whether the government checks your history..."

It could be said that you still have control? By never searching for, or sending communications with certain buzzwords (that are unknown to us). That is NOT me being in control. That is them being in control. They are effecting my behaviours. They are the ones trying to control. Don't try to put a positive spin on it!

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else


"Once again, they won't be able to tell whether you accessed the site as a guest or a member.

...plus, by the time they're looking at your history, you've already done something to attract attention. So it could be said that you still have control of whether the government checks your history...

It could be said that you still have control? By never searching for, or sending communications with certain buzzwords (that are unknown to us). That is NOT me being in control. That is them being in control. They are effecting my behaviours. They are the ones trying to control. Don't try to put a positive spin on it!"

...but you're allowed a negative spin?

They're not changing my behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a negative spin. They are putting in measures to curtail peoples activities. That is an action of control and suppression.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

Monitor does not equal curtail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Monitor does not equal curtail.

"

By letting people know they are monitoring, and you could then be open to some very far reaching investigations, then they are controlling peoples behaviour.

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By *aucy tiggerWoman
over a year ago

Back where I belong


"I struggle to see why the likes of GCHQ et al would be in the slightest bit phased by the mildly nutty world of Fab. As long as their data integrity protocols prevent some nugget accidentally broadcasting personal details, I'm relaxed. I suspect they have mildly bigger fish to fry.

Right boss, we've found three terrorist cells plotting to hit the UK imminently, but there's also a guy over there with fourteen badly lit pictures of his knob - who shall we send the boys after??????

"

Lol loved the last bit hehehe

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'll change some of my habits. We are living in a culture of fear, where people become happy for those in authority to do something to lessen it for us. They won't of course, as it suits them to sustain the fear and keep us as subdued Muppets. Hitler knew how well propaganda worked and they're doing the same thing.

Far fewer killed from terrorism over many years than killed by stuff like pollution. We're going to pay internet companies to hold all this data for a year, and it will achieve nothing, but we're the mugs paying for it.

We should be up in arms about loss of our right to privacy.

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By *onnie55Man
over a year ago

Port Talbot

Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones....

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By *eyeJackMan
over a year ago

Swansea

The government are not,(normally), listening in to everyone's conversations though the GSM system was deliberately made "hackable".

Publicly, the "Snoopers' Charter" is about the government extending and regularising it's trawl for so-called "metadata".

For ten years, this had consisted of who you call and who calls you, but now they want to know what platforms you are on: WhatsApp, Kik, mail providers and social media platforms.

They do this by checking with your ISP for the IP addresses you visit and/or the site names you resolve through DNS.

(This is made a lot more difficult by feeding your traffic and DNS through a VPN or Tor, plus you get to watch American Netflix, so I've heard).

-

It is very costly in bandwidth and storage terms to intercept data in transit, so the usual point of attack is at one end or the other, either the server or your computer/phone.

If the server platform is accessible to them or is helpful, they can get data about you easily.

There is a big difference in the behaviours of social media platforms.

e.g. Reputedly, Facebook is very cooperative with the security services, but Twitter typically gives government enquiries two fingers.

Most of the time, though, the security services can get what they want from your friends list without having to ask anyone and there are automated tools that compile "spider diagram" of who is connected to who.

If the state are interested in you, you will then be targetted for individual hacking and surveillance.

-

The government is planning to outlaw "unbreakable" encryption, (though there is no such thing if you've got the time and CPU power to devote).

This will apply more to storage devices than to networks, (where the traffic from many sources flies by mingled and often just exposes more layers of encryption).

The internet is not a physical thing. The nearest it gets to that is the interconnecting points of a group of smaller networks: Historically, MILNET/NIPRNet, ARPANET, AMPRnet, Internet2 and later the commercial ISPs you know and love like Demon, BT and Virgin.

Private systems connect to the internet but run on their own fibre, microwave and radio links including transcontinental digital shortwave and satellite.

There are also a plethora of hidden and "dark" nets.

If network traffic does not cross government-friendly ISPs, it doesn't get monitored.

-

Criminals, serious paedophiles, and terrorists DO NOT USE the consumer internet.

They use independent networks, and darknets.

Some of these networks run in VPN and p2p "tunnels" over the consumer internet, but are very expensive and time consuming to monitor.

Unless draconian but applied in a discriminatory manner, encryption laws are irrelevant compared to the crimes the folks above are hiding.

Also, the "sigint", (chatter), the security services gets back is low grade, requiring a lot of interpretation and is hugely inferior to human intelligence gained by infiltrators.

Therefore INTERNET LAWS HAVE LITTLE TO DO WITH SERIOUS CRIMINALITY other than as a public justification.

Their aim is to:

a) prevent "contagion" by monitoring, "gaslighting" and spreading FUD among low-level amateur malcontents: Occupy, ecowarriors, anti-Europeans, trade unions.

b) leverage human intelligence at the fringes of more serious activities through compromised relatives and associates.

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Hidden away in the new bill, Section 189 enables a 'Technical capability notice'

This give the right for the government to impose 'an obligation on any relevant operators' where 'the Secretary of State considers it is reasonable to do so.'

That means your ISP has to do ANYTHING TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE at the whim of a politician at any time in the future.

There is no "sunset clause" that requres periodic renewal of state power.

As the capabilities of technology increase, so this law will reach further an further into our lives, with no safeguard. (Look at the wording).

-

One purpose of the new law is to force ISPs to give access to endpoint machines, (your computers, phones etc.)

They can do this by providing holes in firewalls and passing on the backdoor access they already have to customers' home routers.

It will become a jailable offence to even reveal the existence of these backdoors.

Tim Cook, the boss of Apple, has warned that the UK bill will have 'Dire consequences' and that 'Any backdoor is a backdoor for everyone'.

Change the admin password on your home router and make sure remote admin is disabled.

If you using default WiFi passwords or running an open network, this is VERY important, but while it will deter hackers, it won't stop your ISP and therefore the government.

Most home machines have no password or the same password as used on websites, and therefore any local files, internet history and cache are at the disposal of the police, HMRC and intelligence services.

"Hardened" workstations can be brute-force attacked or hit with an unpatched exploit.

So if you don't want hackers in your computers, don't make everyone an admin; set unique passwords more than 8 characters on at least the admin accounts; don't use simple dictionary words as passwords; keep you machines updated.

-

With the development of the Internet of Things, (IoT), your home alarm, cameras, electricity meter, heating and even fridge will be telling manufacturers, marketers, the state and burglars what you're up to.

Your "smart" TV or digibox is telling the vendor (and hence advertisers) what you are watching, possibly listening full-time to your conversations and passing them to cloud servers for recognition.

In some cases, the TV has a camera that can be remotely accessed.

ASIDE: Verizon has patented a system that delivers targetted advertising based on "ambient actions", - whatever viewers are doing in front of the TV.

Quite what it would make of the average Fab chat user is not known.

-

Ponder the feasibility of these example scenarios where involvement with underground websites could provide leverage:

-

Your nephew is selling , but they cannot get to him because he only uses burner phones and keeps at arm's length the folk who hold for him.

The DS ask you for information about his habits and contacts, - but you tell them where to go.

They remind you that "a little bird" has told them you are into some embarrassing sexual scenes.

-

Some of your footy mates are in one of the few far-right outfits not run by the security services, (and not susceptible through an enthusiasm for chang).

They see from your metadata that you are connected and might be of like mind.

They use a closed web community to "friend" you, gain your trust and/or pressure you.

They then have an "in" on the target group though an introducer or informer.

-

You are a politician of questionable loyalty over, say, Europe or fracking.

You also have some unusual sexual tastes.

You are inducted into select circles managed by political insiders assisted by MI5, the BND or the Mossad.

The kink gradually pushes the boundaries of acceptability.

You are now owned, and won't be making any more trouble.

-

You have called the HSE into a construction site and upset the main contractor, who has warned (lets call them) "The Consulting League".

The League ask for some info from their police insiders, who read you stirring things online.

You try for a sub contract from one of the big firms, whose security guy rings The League. No work for you.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"So, who'll be keeping their online profile if the Gvt get their way?

All your internet and email traffic will be saved for 12months and available!

Or do you simply don't give a chuff?

Apple and other tech organisations claim it will just make it easy for the bad guys and not help at all and in fact make it easy to hack people's info?

Is this a bridge too far between govt and your right to privacy?

"

Don't give a chuff really. The law says they can only see which websites you visit, not the individual pages you browse on those websites.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Lose your liberty at your peril, when taken away by law that is all encompassing for future changes and is not overseen to ensure that its use is proportionate.

I am in favour of selective targeted surveillance upon individuals. But blanket surveillance is disproportionate to the level of risks from our population which is predominantly law abiding.

We have a right to expect privacy in our private lives and this includes privacy about what web sites we visit. And any oversight must be made by a totally independent body from either the government or its agency that is involved with the demand for intrusion.

We do need new legislation and this should largely curtail what is currently possible or is being proposed by the opponents of David Davis. Our private lives should remain private and not be opened up to the likely ever growing intrusiveness of the state. That should be outlawed by new legislation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

same attitude here. do i give a toss that gchq can see that i've been on fab??? noooo. if the extra 1900 people being taken on do there job properly, then i'll sleep better. vive la france.

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By *irkby coupleCouple
over a year ago

Kirkby

Any info/pics on an apple device belongs to Apple, why does it matter who looks at the info apple or the govt?

Also if you send an email and include the words assassination then some high profile leader to a 2nd email account, then send another email say something completely innocent, log in to your 2nd email account and see which email is delivered 1st.

They are already watching and have been for a while

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I want to give the huge numbers of completely committed law enforcement and intelligence agents the tools to do their job in the world we actually occupy now.

There are those with ulterior motives for sure but the vast majority of those who will use these tools are utterly committed to keeping us safe from those who would harm us. I'll take a risk with the others and rely on a society and government who *generally* abide by the checks and balances.

I believe some people expect other humans to achieve the impossible on their behalf but want to quibble when they don't like the harsh reality of what it takes to do it. That is always horribly unfair in my view.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

I knew I was right to be paranoid

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