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Government checking everyone's Internet use p2

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I really enjoyed this thread. Nice to see a lively debate that didn't descend into personal attacks . So let's continue....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Greetings from Guantanamo

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Greetings from Guantanamo "

A good example of what happens when you let governments do as they please in the name of 'preventing terror'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However you choose to dress it up, nothing you, I or anyone else do will prevent governments from doing as they please.

Oooo lets protest. Government ignores protest

Oooo let's vote a different way. We still get fucked in the ass by whatever colour tie occupies the seat of power.

Ooooo lets find ways of circumventing their sneaky spies. Chances are they're vastly beyond any methods we have.

So I ask, what is the solution?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"However you choose to dress it up, nothing you, I or anyone else do will prevent governments from doing as they please.

Oooo lets protest. Government ignores protest

Oooo let's vote a different way. We still get fucked in the ass by whatever colour tie occupies the seat of power.

Ooooo lets find ways of circumventing their sneaky spies. Chances are they're vastly beyond any methods we have.

So I ask, what is the solution?

"

Whilst I agree to a certain extent. Citizens do have power. Apathy is the biggest issue here. We should protest, we should debate it and we should get involved. Governments get away with everything when their citizens do nothing. Parties want to be re-elected so will 'generally' shy away from unpopular legislation. Which goes right back to apathy. Too many people are apathetic and that is an issue in itself! We should hassle our MPs and legislators. The answer isn't to do nothing!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Even if organisations might do as they please, it's still important for them to be legally controlled. It's possible that Blair may still be prosecuted Imo and it's possible that without protest that we could sleepwalk progressively into a near police state.

Always write to your MPs when they do stuff you don't agree with.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Some things worth watching :

Why privacy matters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

How we take back the internet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVwAodrjZMY

CitizenFOUR

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Even if organisations might do as they please, it's still important for them to be legally controlled. It's possible that Blair may still be prosecuted Imo and it's possible that without protest that we could sleepwalk progressively into a near police state.

Always write to your MPs when they do stuff you don't agree with."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope the Rt Hon Baroness Stowell of Beeston MBE PC checks mine......

Hey she is Lord Privy Seal after all....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't agree that this is a case of 'big government' or down to apathy, though both those things undoubtedly exist.

British society put value on the health and welfare of its citizens. It may fail but it succeeds to a great extent too and the number of departments with vast budgets who are dedicated to this provide some confirmation of that commitment.

Counter terrorism is a murky world and much will never be shared. As a result there will always be suspicions about the activity. This goes back about as far as intelligence handling does and would have applied equally during the more 'romantic' periods of the 20th century.

Genuine plots by horrible people have been thwarted through covert measures. In fact given that terrorists do put huge effort into counter surveillance you'd think our intelligence services might be something of a national treasure given that we have not had a successful mass casualty attack for 15 years. Instead we want to curtail them based on little or no information and assume that those who are there to limit unnecessary intrusion are incompetent or corrupt. I find that far more depressing than living in a society where someone who couldn't care less gets to see my internet history.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Some things worth watching :

Why privacy matters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

How we take back the internet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVwAodrjZMY

CitizenFOUR"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I don't agree that this is a case of 'big government' or down to apathy, though both those things undoubtedly exist.

British society put value on the health and welfare of its citizens. It may fail but it succeeds to a great extent too and the number of departments with vast budgets who are dedicated to this provide some confirmation of that commitment.

Counter terrorism is a murky world and much will never be shared. As a result there will always be suspicions about the activity. This goes back about as far as intelligence handling does and would have applied equally during the more 'romantic' periods of the 20th century.

Genuine plots by horrible people have been thwarted through covert measures. In fact given that terrorists do put huge effort into counter surveillance you'd think our intelligence services might be something of a national treasure given that we have not had a successful mass casualty attack for 15 years. Instead we want to curtail them based on little or no information and assume that those who are there to limit unnecessary intrusion are incompetent or corrupt. I find that far more depressing than living in a society where someone who couldn't care less gets to see my internet history. "

Freedom and privacy are fundamental rights. You may be willing to give up those rights but I am not. Drip Drip Drip it starts with monitoring our Internet use and when the public let's that go it descends even further. I genuinely believe if we aren't careful and don't challenge such actions we will become the nation George Orwell predicted in 1984. And furthermore this isn't about counteracting terrorism it's a way of controlling it's people. And for example what if you innocently stumble on to a site that is on the government's watch list what then? This whole process is open to so much abuse. The whole Ashley Madison debacle should act as a warning. Would you like hackers to get hold of for example your fab profile or messages and reveal those to your family or children's schools or post them all over Facebook. Furthermore if the intelligence services have prevented attacks with their current capabilities then the new laws are unnecessary. A better way would be to stay out of conflicts that don't affect this country. Let's not forget we are mostly targeted because of the illegal war in Iraq and our involvement in the middle east.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Sorry I rambled a bit there lol unsurprisingly Internet privacy is a subject close to my heart!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ooh, we can all ramble. Can't agree though.

It is about counter terrorism and these intelligence gathering methods work.

If hackers want access to your fab account then why don't they hack fab. It's a heap less secure than GCHQ.

Orwell was clever and made fantastic points through his literature but citing him isn't a 'drop the mike' thing. It doesn't make a point. To do that you still need evidence and substance.

There may be some with ulterior motives but there is a legion of people trying to keep us all safe in a tradition that has existed 100 years and has saved many of us from the same fate as 220 Russians. I see that as a good thing worthy of the loss of some privacy.

Those same agencies 'can' intercept your phone calls, your mail and install listening devices in your house. I'm assuming you don't think they inadvertently have?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ooh, we can all ramble. Can't agree though.

It is about counter terrorism and these intelligence gathering methods work.

If hackers want access to your fab account then why don't they hack fab. It's a heap less secure than GCHQ.

Orwell was clever and made fantastic points through his literature but citing him isn't a 'drop the mike' thing. It doesn't make a point. To do that you still need evidence and substance.

There may be some with ulterior motives but there is a legion of people trying to keep us all safe in a tradition that has existed 100 years and has saved many of us from the same fate as 220 Russians. I see that as a good thing worthy of the loss of some privacy.

Those same agencies 'can' intercept your phone calls, your mail and install listening devices in your house. I'm assuming you don't think they inadvertently have?"

There's a difference between monitoring individuals who you have a genuine, legally justified suspicion over, and blanket interception and storage of the data of the entire nation, which is then subjected to metadata cross referencing and profiling...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ooh, we can all ramble. Can't agree though.

It is about counter terrorism and these intelligence gathering methods work.

If hackers want access to your fab account then why don't they hack fab. It's a heap less secure than GCHQ.

Orwell was clever and made fantastic points through his literature but citing him isn't a 'drop the mike' thing. It doesn't make a point. To do that you still need evidence and substance.

There may be some with ulterior motives but there is a legion of people trying to keep us all safe in a tradition that has existed 100 years and has saved many of us from the same fate as 220 Russians. I see that as a good thing worthy of the loss of some privacy.

Those same agencies 'can' intercept your phone calls, your mail and install listening devices in your house. I'm assuming you don't think they inadvertently have?

There's a difference between monitoring individuals who you have a genuine, legally justified suspicion over, and blanket interception and storage of the data of the entire nation, which is then subjected to metadata cross referencing and profiling... "

I'm assuming the fact that there's a difference isn't your only point?

Surely one of the points being missed is that this data will be considered a pre-cursor. Anyone who ticks the right boxes would be subject to progressively more intrusive delving. It happens now, with checks and balances. And random people aren't having there door smashed in by the thought police.

Anyone's who's not a terrorist isn't being hoovered up now so what does the difference you allude to make?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

If anyone thinks this is about counter terrorism, a la ISIS type folk, I think you're missing a trick.

Fear and propaganda are the easy tools that are used to supplicate minds. to the extent that we allow this, we are fools.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

i note nobody has posted about the revalation that MI5 have been collecting data on EVERYBODYS phone calls for the last ten years and it was that secret only the top bods at MI5 new anything about it !

and we are all quite happy to allow the same people access to our internet history

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"If anyone thinks this is about counter terrorism, a la ISIS type folk, I think you're missing a trick.

Fear and propaganda are the easy tools that are used to supplicate minds. to the extent that we allow this, we are fools."

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