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Who's fault

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would say it depends on the circumstances and the crime.

In the US, these types of questions often come down to whether a jurisdiction is sha_ed fault or not- Comparative and Contributory fault along with questions of what the liability is - strict, negligence, recklessnes . Etc.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? "

Lack of crime and specifics of the event make this a pointless and loaded question.

Also it needs "fault" defining for the purposes of the debate.

Fault as in responsibility for the actions or for providing opertinity etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well if the 15 yr old girl didnt dress like that i wouldnt have raped her sort of thing???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? "
We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where's Judge Rinder when you need him?

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything."

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault? "

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him? "

He is good!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

If I was protecting myself or a loved one I would have no hesitation in committing the crimes of gbh or possibly murder and it would be 100% my responsibility but I would argue that the fault lay with whoever was endangering me or my loved one.

If I was starving literally not just very hungry and I stole a sandwich I would consider that to be my fault but with mitigating circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally totally totally depends on the circumstances. It's not always clear cut.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If I was protecting myself or a loved one I would have no hesitation in committing the crimes of gbh or possibly murder and it would be 100% my responsibility but I would argue that the fault lay with whoever was endangering me or my loved one.

If I was starving literally not just very hungry and I stole a sandwich I would consider that to be my fault but with mitigating circumstances."

If you were defending someone it would be self defence and legal

It would only be a crime if you continued your assume long after it was reasonable to stop.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? "

Put it this way:

If my neighbour comes out just once more and makes a quip about me mixing nearly a ton of concrete in the pouring rain, I may be testing the theory of 'justifiable homicide' (as well as the one about burying the body in the foundations)

Mr ddc

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"If I was protecting myself or a loved one I would have no hesitation in committing the crimes of gbh or possibly murder and it would be 100% my responsibility but I would argue that the fault lay with whoever was endangering me or my loved one.

If I was starving literally not just very hungry and I stole a sandwich I would consider that to be my fault but with mitigating circumstances.

If you were defending someone it would be self defence and legal

It would only be a crime if you continued your assume long after it was reasonable to stop."

I'm slow to anger but if a loved one was in danger I couldn't guarantee that I would recognise when it was reasonable to stop and I doubt I would be wondering about the legality of it all. This I suppose is when the waters become muddied.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Is this like the whole "If you don't want to get robbed don't wear jewellery/use your phone/speak incase somebody sees your gold tooth"?

I always found that advice ridiculous.

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By * e coupleCouple
over a year ago

northeast

If burglar in your house , threatens you . His right have gone kill the bastard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

"

Really ??? Intruder shouldn't be there and has killed the mans family...fuck

him I'd do the same in an instant if anyone harmed my child

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good question.

Without specifics, yes.

I think we all have a duty to be responsible for ourselves more. I believe complacency has crept into modern life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If burglar in your house , threatens you . His right have gone kill the bastard "

Or you'd get done for murder if the cps think you used excessive force and the evidence backed it up.

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By *ngel delight 69Woman
over a year ago

Torquay


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him? "

Out back noshing off one of the production crew probably...

You do know he's not a judge?...

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By * e coupleCouple
over a year ago

northeast

Trial by jury think I know who's side they would take.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This a very vague. Op Can you please give a scenario? For which your question stems from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Forgetting to lock my car does not give someone the right to steal from it or drive it away.

We are each responsible for our own actions and for making the decisions that lead to them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely.

If you don't want raped, don't dress provocatively.

If you don't want robbed, don't own things.

Etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

Really ??? Intruder shouldn't be there and has killed the mans family...fuck

him I'd do the same in an instant if anyone harmed my child"

How ever at the time the crime us

"A defenceless unconcious man is beaten to death with a heavy impliment"

Law differentiates between defence and revenge.

Hence that guy in Manchester who stabbed a burglar to death with their own knife. -innocent didn't even see a court room not charges pressed.

That guy who chased a bugler out of his house got his cousin from the next house then beat the guy in the street with a bat till he was permanently brain damaged - currently serving jail time for GBH.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Forgetting to lock my car does not give someone the right to steal from it or drive it away.

We are each responsible for our own actions and for making the decisions that lead to them.

"

Interestingly though it does give them the lawful ability to remove all your possessions and drop them off at a police station.

Before you think that insane this was actually a police program a dew yeaes ago to make people aware of leaving their cars unlocked officers went checked cars and then took everything from inside and left a note.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well if the 15 yr old girl didnt dress like that i wouldnt have raped her sort of thing??? "

Isn't it pretty well established that a person dressing 'provocatively' is no defence for rape? I'm sure it doesn't stop people trying to use that as a defence,though,,,just never accepted in court.

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By *LCC OP   Couple
over a year ago

Cambridge

The OP was in relation to the Guardian article linked below. The have been several attacks on women recently, and the police have issued advice that women should walk home in groups or pairs after a number of these attacks.

a friend of mine posted this on Facebook saying that it is 100% the attacker's fault, and that it is never even partly the fault of the victim. She agreed with the columnist, that advice from the police didn't help, and was actually blaming the victim for being a victim.

My thoughts are that there are lots of small choices that can help to _educe the risk of being attacked. For example do you leave the club and head home alone, or with your friends? Do you get a black cab/licensed minicab home, or get the unlicensed one? Do you walk the slightly longer route home down the lit high street with CCTV, or do you take the shortcut through the park?

I don't think that anyone should be attacked or raped.

I think to say that because someone Shouldn't be attacked, it doesn't matter what they do (in terms of walking alone, in dangerous areas etc.), is belittling the common sense decisions that other people have consciously made to _educe the risk to themselves. Therefore solely laying the blame at the feet of the attacker, could leave more people vulnerable to attack.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2015/nov/05/why-do-the-police-still-tell-women-that-they-should-avoid-getting-raped?CMP=fb_gu

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him?

He is good! "

Judge Judy is better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The OP was in relation to the Guardian article linked below. The have been several attacks on women recently, and the police have issued advice that women should walk home in groups or pairs after a number of these attacks.

a friend of mine posted this on Facebook saying that it is 100% the attacker's fault, and that it is never even partly the fault of the victim. She agreed with the columnist, that advice from the police didn't help, and was actually blaming the victim for being a victim.

My thoughts are that there are lots of small choices that can help to _educe the risk of being attacked. For example do you leave the club and head home alone, or with your friends? Do you get a black cab/licensed minicab home, or get the unlicensed one? Do you walk the slightly longer route home down the lit high street with CCTV, or do you take the shortcut through the park?

I don't think that anyone should be attacked or raped.

I think to say that because someone Shouldn't be attacked, it doesn't matter what they do (in terms of walking alone, in dangerous areas etc.), is belittling the common sense decisions that other people have consciously made to _educe the risk to themselves. Therefore solely laying the blame at the feet of the attacker, could leave more people vulnerable to attack.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2015/nov/05/why-do-the-police-still-tell-women-that-they-should-avoid-getting-raped?CMP=fb_gu"

Advice to help you is not the same acusing you of being culpable.

It's not blaming it's "there are bad people in the world who want to do bad things to you here's ways to help stop them".

Same way the home office maintains a. List of courses tries deemed dangerous for tourists to go to.

It's not blaming tourists for terrorism

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

People should always take steps to protect themselves if possible.

However if they don't take those steps and something is done to them by another it is 100% the fault of the perpetrator.

No question about it.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

"

That's a great example and proves that it really does depend on circumstances.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

I try not to park my car next to one that's already on bricks to _educe the risk of having my hubcaps pilfe_ed.

It's not my fault if it happen anyway.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Yes, there are ways to PREVENT yourself becoming a victim but it still doesn't make it "your fault" if you do.

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By *edMan
over a year ago

cambridgeshire


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him? "

Finder is a pussy! Get Judge D_edd !!!

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By *edMan
over a year ago

cambridgeshire


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

That's a great example and proves that it really does depend on circumstances."

Actually m'lud.. He was attacking me at the top of the stairs where I hit him with the ornament and he fell down the stairs ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? "

If {insert generalisation}, is it {ask absolute question}?

Answer = No.

Why? Because there's always differences in definitions, boundaries, grey areas, scenarios you hadn't conside_ed and exceptions.

Feel free to cut and paste for the 50 other threads like this today.

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"Where's Judge Rinder when you need him? "

Pickpocketing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your door is left wide open a theif may walk in without the intention of stealing but for concern of the occupant... Then all of sudden sees something they like and takes it..is that your fault for leaving the door open? I don't think so...

I heard of a guy once that claimed compensation from a family that he was robbing because he tripped over a childs toy and fell down the stairs... and the fucker won!!!

WWhere's the justice in that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well if the 15 yr old girl didnt dress like that i wouldnt have raped her sort of thing???

Isn't it pretty well established that a person dressing 'provocatively' is no defence for rape? I'm sure it doesn't stop people trying to use that as a defence,though,,,just never accepted in court."

And too bloody right it shouldnt but u hear it time and time again. And even from womens mouths... Well she was asking for it look at they way shes dressed... Total bullshit but thats my opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you are the victim of a crime, is it always 100% the fault of the perpetrator, or in some cases should the victim share some of the responsibility? We would need to know so much more and there is always two sides to everything.

So that would suggest that it is not always just the perpetrators fault?

OK you tell us.

The scenerio.

An intruder breaks into a man's house.

He ties up the man and his family.

He then brutally tortures,rapes and murders the man's wife and children in front of him.

He then turns to leave and says he's not going to hurt the man or anyone else, he then flees.

The man then manages to escape and runs after him as he gets to the bottom of the stairs he finds the intruder, they had tripped and fallen and are now unconcious.

The man picks up the the ornament from the shelf and caves the intruders head in in a rage.

So the victim we will use is the intruder who has been unlawfully killed

Does all blame lie with the man for killing the helpless intruder.

Or does some blame lie with the intruder for driving the man to a point beyond reason?

That's a great example and proves that it really does depend on circumstances."

I like thought experiments :p

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like thought experiments :p"

Not saying this is the case now, but I've found that most threads on here labelled as Thought Experiments are just the poster trying to backtrack or justify a shitty or stupid or unpopular comment.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts


"I like thought experiments :p

Not saying this is the case now, but I've found that most threads on here labelled as Thought Experiments are just the poster trying to backtrack or justify a shitty or stupid or unpopular comment. "

Things not cove_ed by FORUM INSURANCE

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you leave your house unlocked when you go out you should take some responsibility.

Saying that, people should just keep their fingers to themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I like thought experiments :p

Not saying this is the case now, but I've found that most threads on here labelled as Thought Experiments are just the poster trying to backtrack or justify a shitty or stupid or unpopular comment. "

It's not my thread

Plus I'm stubborn as a mule I won't back track.

If you prove me wrong though it I'll happily concede and be glad I've learned something new.

But thought experiments don't mean what you've defined them as (again they get forced into roles they don't suit) they're simply ways to visualise inc_edibly complex scenarios.

Personal I recommend the Bohr- Einstein debates for some fantastic ones.

Einstein certainly had a knack for abstracting complex principals into basic relatable terms

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you leave your house unlocked when you go out you should take some responsibility.

Saying that, people should just keep their fingers to themselves. "

your insurance won't pay out for instance

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