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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem "  | |||
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It's like CCTV... it's only worrying if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.
If they want to traipse through my internet history they'll be really bo_ed, really quickly and likely know lots about cats, skin cancer and shoes.  | |||
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"...they've always had the power. They're just not denying it anymore." Thanks now I've got He-Man in my head! | |||
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"...they've always had the power. They're just not denying it anymore. Thanks now I've got He-Man in my head!" Ha me too now | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html" Well spotted. This won't end well, but the flip side to that is... what has the average person got to hide.... nothing. But those hauled in for sex crimes have this done anyway! How do I know.... I'm related to some one in the police that investigates paedos! | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html Well spotted. This won't end well, but the flip side to that is... what has the average person got to hide.... nothing. But those hauled in for sex crimes have this done anyway! How do I know.... I'm related to some one in the police that investigates paedos!" The average person has many many things they may hide. For isn't axe the gchq/nsa massive data farming of video chats online will have scooped up thousands of private naked naughty sessions between couples and as Snowden showed that this kind of naked material got sha_ed around the office and copied to phones etc (think that happened with our own police too and nudy pics on phones) So why should people be exposed to this risk? | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' " I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html" They have had this power for a long time, the hard part for the police is getting the relevant evidence together to obtain a search warrant to start with. Something i know all too well as the person behind my ongoing harassment uses servers that mask their IP, and uses 'disposable email', so despite me knowing who it is, despite them posting who it is, until a solid undeniable link is found that traces anything back to that person, they remain free to continue their vendetta against me. | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html They have had this power for a long time, the hard part for the police is getting the relevant evidence together to obtain a search warrant to start with. Something i know all too well as the person behind my ongoing harassment uses servers that mask their IP, and uses 'disposable email', so despite me knowing who it is, despite them posting who it is, until a solid undeniable link is found that traces anything back to that person, they remain free to continue their vendetta against me. " If it's via email could you not just change your email. | |||
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"Why is it worrying?
It's like CCTV... it's only worrying if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.
If they want to traipse through my internet history they'll be really bo_ed, really quickly and likely know lots about cats, skin cancer and shoes. "I smell a new thread coming: "What's the last three things on your internet history apart from fab?"
(Mine were "is blue peter something amusing on urban dictionary?", "who are those people off QT?" and "what's the land area of the uk divided by the population?", though technically all of those were fab-related too  )
Mr ddc | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. " Heh you should see the capabilites gchq has now days it's actually staggering they've tapped into the major fibre lines for all Internet traffic for the UK iirc it was a 30 second recording of all Internet traffic they have manged to achieve (I know it doesn't sound. Much but it's staggering) But the thing is Snowden clearly show that they're dragnetting data without Warrants and the naked pics etc are being scooped up and sha_ed about. But my scar point was the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" point. Every law abiding person in this country has something to hide. | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html They have had this power for a long time, the hard part for the police is getting the relevant evidence together to obtain a search warrant to start with. Something i know all too well as the person behind my ongoing harassment uses servers that mask their IP, and uses 'disposable email', so despite me knowing who it is, despite them posting who it is, until a solid undeniable link is found that traces anything back to that person, they remain free to continue their vendetta against me. If it's via email could you not just change your email." it's not via email, they use their disposable email to verify accounts on websites, thus enabling them to create as many profile as they want from which to attack, hence blocking and reporting user is not effective. I will stress right now, that all this is happening on other sites, they haven't found me on here yet, and long may not find me here. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. " This! | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html They have had this power for a long time, the hard part for the police is getting the relevant evidence together to obtain a search warrant to start with. Something i know all too well as the person behind my ongoing harassment uses servers that mask their IP, and uses 'disposable email', so despite me knowing who it is, despite them posting who it is, until a solid undeniable link is found that traces anything back to that person, they remain free to continue their vendetta against me. If it's via email could you not just change your email. it's not via email, they use their disposable email to verify accounts on websites, thus enabling them to create as many profile as they want from which to attack, hence blocking and reporting user is not effective. I will stress right now, that all this is happening on other sites, they haven't found me on here yet, and long may not find me here." Ahh I see. How are the administration on the websites there's potential for up blocking etc for when they fuck up on their proxies or there is a simpler solution if you know who it is that involves a few hund_ed quid and some out of town thugs... | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html They have had this power for a long time, the hard part for the police is getting the relevant evidence together to obtain a search warrant to start with. Something i know all too well as the person behind my ongoing harassment uses servers that mask their IP, and uses 'disposable email', so despite me knowing who it is, despite them posting who it is, until a solid undeniable link is found that traces anything back to that person, they remain free to continue their vendetta against me. If it's via email could you not just change your email. it's not via email, they use their disposable email to verify accounts on websites, thus enabling them to create as many profile as they want from which to attack, hence blocking and reporting user is not effective. I will stress right now, that all this is happening on other sites, they haven't found me on here yet, and long may not find me here." Ahh I see. How are the administration on the websites there's potential for up blocking etc for when they fuck up on their proxies or there is a simpler solution if you know who it is that involves a few hund_ed quid and some out of town thugs... | |||
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"Surely it's only viable to obtain and history from an existing IP address? Although technology isn't my strong point so I'm happy to be corrected and educated on the matter " No you're up should be logging everything you do and they will know you up a dress even if it changes, they may even have a cess to mac a dresses (individual hardware address) but I don't know if that ever gets passed on past the router tbh | |||
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"Surely it's only viable to obtain and history from an existing IP address? Although technology isn't my strong point so I'm happy to be corrected and educated on the matter No you're up should be logging everything you do and they will know you up a dress even if it changes, they may even have a cess to mac a dresses (individual hardware address) but I don't know if that ever gets passed on past the router tbh" I see thank you for clarifying that for me | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. Heh you should see the capabilites gchq has now days it's actually staggering they've tapped into the major fibre lines for all Internet traffic for the UK iirc it was a 30 second recording of all Internet traffic they have manged to achieve (I know it doesn't sound. Much but it's staggering) But the thing is Snowden clearly show that they're dragnetting data without Warrants and the naked pics etc are being scooped up and sha_ed about. But my scar point was the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" point. Every law abiding person in this country has something to hide. " I consider myself law abiding... well I perhaps drive too fast but I don't hide that, I've just not been caught.
I really don't have anything to hide though. What sort of thing do you think people like me would have to hide? Perhaps I don't tell my parents everything but if I was forced to I would. It's for their benefit that they don't need to know everything about me. The authorities won't be interested in me. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. Heh you should see the capabilites gchq has now days it's actually staggering they've tapped into the major fibre lines for all Internet traffic for the UK iirc it was a 30 second recording of all Internet traffic they have manged to achieve (I know it doesn't sound. Much but it's staggering) But the thing is Snowden clearly show that they're dragnetting data without Warrants and the naked pics etc are being scooped up and sha_ed about. But my scar point was the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" point. Every law abiding person in this country has something to hide. I consider myself law abiding... well I perhaps drive too fast but I don't hide that, I've just not been caught.
I really don't have anything to hide though. What sort of thing do you think people like me would have to hide? Perhaps I don't tell my parents everything but if I was forced to I would. It's for their benefit that they don't need to know everything about me. The authorities won't be interested in me. "All your financial information,personal details, the contact information of your friends and family, your naked pictures with your face in, you commonly used passwords etc. All of these things go through your computer | |||
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" All your financial information,personal details, the contact information of your friends and family, your naked pictures with your face in, you commonly used passwords etc. All of these things go through your computer " I don't have naked pics as such. I have tasteful photos that I'm not really concerned about others seeing. I've always thought that once you put something on the internet then it's out there. My financial information again wouldn't be of interest to anyone unless they could get their hands on my millions of course! 
Again though... big brother has been watching us all for some time I'd imagine. I have nothing to hide. Whilst I wouldn't appreciate my personal info being all over the internet, I haven't done anything wrong and I'm pretty sure they're not going to wast their time with the likes of me and my tit flashing.  | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " The problem is that is exactley why we have a raft of "new" laws to protect individual's privacy. Laws such as the Data Protection Act and similar laws have been put in place to curb snooping by the authorities and make them accountable for what data they collect. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' I appreciate the right to privacy but I'm fairly sure it's not the likes of us they're looking at. It's not like they're going to expose your scars to your colleagues are they? I'd take a guess that there will be a bucket of key words cause let's face it, the manpower it would take to check what every single person is looking at on the internet would be beyond ridiculous. Heh you should see the capabilites gchq has now days it's actually staggering they've tapped into the major fibre lines for all Internet traffic for the UK iirc it was a 30 second recording of all Internet traffic they have manged to achieve (I know it doesn't sound. Much but it's staggering) But the thing is Snowden clearly show that they're dragnetting data without Warrants and the naked pics etc are being scooped up and sha_ed about. But my scar point was the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" point. Every law abiding person in this country has something to hide. I consider myself law abiding... well I perhaps drive too fast but I don't hide that, I've just not been caught.
I really don't have anything to hide though. What sort of thing do you think people like me would have to hide? Perhaps I don't tell my parents everything but if I was forced to I would. It's for their benefit that they don't need to know everything about me. The authorities won't be interested in me. "They may not be interested in you now. What about when one of the guys you've met is a terrorist? What about when a car you used to own is found to have drugs in it? What about when your next door neighbour is found to have bodies buried in the garden? You'd be investigated and may be of interest to the media | |||
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"*waves at the nice policeman*  "He's not looking to see your waves Felicity .. Lol | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html" Oh Fuck. | |||
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" All your financial information,personal details, the contact information of your friends and family, your naked pictures with your face in, you commonly used passwords etc. All of these things go through your computer I don't have naked pics as such. I have tasteful photos that I'm not really concerned about others seeing. I've always thought that once you put something on the internet then it's out there. My financial information again wouldn't be of interest to anyone unless they could get their hands on my millions of course!
Again though... big brother has been watching us all for some time I'd imagine. I have nothing to hide. Whilst I wouldn't appreciate my personal info being all over the internet, I haven't done anything wrong and I'm pretty sure they're not going to wast their time with the likes of me and my tit flashing. "Well did you see the link I posted about the woman who got harassed? That all started by a police officer taking her number off a crime report. As powers become more deregulated they become more abused. Se the laws designed do help terror survailence being used to monitor if children are actually in the right catchment area for their school with full 24 hour survailence of their house etc. | |||
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"I have nothing to hide so they can have a ganders... "Send us a fajina pic then  | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' " Thank you: feeling a bit fuzzy headed at the moment and was struggling to respond to this. You've summed up my thoughts perfectly. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That why you don't have a public face picture? Also I find it disturbing that having something to hide is conserved equivalent to a crime. There are many legal things that people hide. For instance I choose not to show my scars at work or let anyone there know they exist why should I be denied this basic privacy because idiots think having the freedom to hide things is wrong? 'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' " Well said | |||
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"They may not be interested in you now. What about when one of the guys you've met is a terrorist? What about when a car you used to own is found to have drugs in it? What about when your next door neighbour is found to have bodies buried in the garden? You'd be investigated and may be of interest to the media" Again... that really doesn't worry me. Worst case scenario I'd need to explain my sexuality to my parents. They love me and whilst I'd rather not upset them, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I really don't have anything else to hide or be ashamed of. I wouldn't volunteer the details of my past to the media, I really wouldn't be that interesting to anyone.  | |||
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"I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points: 1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of _iew is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people. Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now conside_ed a dangerous person. With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fi_ed. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad. 2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fi_ed. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, fuck it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke. 3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its conside_ed a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police. You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there. 4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "fuck you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a fucking wound on my leg?" "Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail. Everyone walking around is sca_ed. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons. You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically conside_ed a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as sca_ed as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors. This all happened in the country where I live. You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ing_edient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality. Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not? You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety? Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe? I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen. I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no." | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " This | |||
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"Bit late to the party but I remember reading this reply to government surveillance on the internet a while ago and though it might be of interest to someone: I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points: 1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of _iew is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people. Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now conside_ed a dangerous person. With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fi_ed. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad. 2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fi_ed. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, fuck it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke. 3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its conside_ed a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police. You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there. 4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "fuck you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a fucking wound on my leg?" "Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail. Everyone walking around is sca_ed. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons. You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically conside_ed a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as sca_ed as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors. This all happened in the country where I live. You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ing_edient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality. Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not? You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety? Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe? I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen. I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no." A chilling post, that will be lost on around 95% of the people it should resonate with. | |||
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"For those people who are glad this is being done because they think that they have nothing to hide, how many of them voluntarily submit their movements to the police each day, to make sure that they can be easily eliminated as suspects in any crimes? Or have voluntarily submitted their DNA to the police, for similar reasons? If not, why not? They've nothing to hide, after all." Sabrina tried to voluntarily submit her DNA to the police one night while we were dogging . Unfortunately he was not into joining in so there you go | |||
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"For those people who are glad this is being done because they think that they have nothing to hide, how many of them voluntarily submit their movements to the police each day, to make sure that they can be easily eliminated as suspects in any crimes? Or have voluntarily submitted their DNA to the police, for similar reasons? If not, why not? They've nothing to hide, after all." | |||
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"For those people who are glad this is being done because they think that they have nothing to hide, how many of them voluntarily submit their movements to the police each day, to make sure that they can be easily eliminated as suspects in any crimes? Or have voluntarily submitted their DNA to the police, for similar reasons? If not, why not? They've nothing to hide, after all." Um... I've never been asked. I do get the uproar about privacy. I guess it just doesn't affect me in the same way. It's not to say that I don't believe it won't be misused... I'm just not that bothe_ed about it. I live within the law most of the time, I don't misbehave in a criminal way. I don't involve myself with bad people (to my knowledge) and don't feel the need to hide my internet activities. | |||
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 and seriously sick of Thomas the tank engine | |||
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"For those people who are glad this is being done because they think that they have nothing to hide, how many of them voluntarily submit their movements to the police each day, to make sure that they can be easily eliminated as suspects in any crimes? Or have voluntarily submitted their DNA to the police, for similar reasons? If not, why not? They've nothing to hide, after all. Um... I've never been asked. I do get the uproar about privacy. I guess it just doesn't affect me in the same way. It's not to say that I don't believe it won't be misused... I'm just not that bothe_ed about it. I live within the law most of the time, I don't misbehave in a criminal way. I don't involve myself with bad people (to my knowledge) and don't feel the need to hide my internet activities. " A position that is entirely reliant on the law staying where it is right now. What is legal today is not guaranteed to be legal tomorrow. | |||
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"Why is it worrying?
It's like CCTV... it's only worrying if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.
If they want to traipse through my internet history they'll be really bo_ed, really quickly and likely know lots about cats, skin cancer and shoes. "Thanks for that, I just spit out my lunch laughing. | |||
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"According to Ed Snowden GCHQ are already doing it and have done for years. Whilst I have nothing to hide. I don't like it. " Like it or not there's not much we can do about it...it's just how the world is now unfortunately | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " . Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean than everyone has a right to snoop into your personal affairs . If you have nothing to hide , then the polce have no reason to look into your personal life . Unlimited powers are wide open to abuse . | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem . Just because you have nothing to hide does not mean than everyone has a right to snoop into your personal affairs . If you have nothing to hide , then the polce have no reason to look into your personal life . Unlimited powers are wide open to abuse . " | |||
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"Anyone who was surprised by Snowden's revelations was naive to begin with. People should know about this stuff. It should bother them. It should bother all of us. -Courtney" agree.. when in the fight to protect 'us' some within elements of the state trample on and ignore the laws of the land, it only serves to _educe all of our freedom.. when we allow or accept that others are treated in a way far beyond what we would accept for our own because someone says they are bad people but cant tell us why then we all suffer.. | |||
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"Anyone who was surprised by Snowden's revelations was naive to begin with. People should know about this stuff. It should bother them. It should bother all of us. -Courtney agree.. when in the fight to protect 'us' some within elements of the state trample on and ignore the laws of the land, it only serves to _educe all of our freedom.. when we allow or accept that others are treated in a way far beyond what we would accept for our own because someone says they are bad people but cant tell us why then we all suffer.. "
We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future. | |||
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"Oh BTW for the "nothing to hide" folks you do know it's illegal to post anything "by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing nature" That's obscene or offensive or indecent... That's a broad definition would cover much of this site too tbh. Also this comment on Facebook got jail time "Personally im glad that teacher got stabbed up, feel sorry for the kid… he shoulda pissed on her too"." So who's ever said something about wishing say jedwood or Simon cowl would get killed etc? Cause you're criminal. . " I may have said Celine Dion should have been strangled at an early age but I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain would grasp that I dislike her voice rather than assuming that I wish her to be dead. I understand that lots of you feel strongly about it. That's entirely your right. I don't feel I have to convince you to change your mind. Courtney has made a very valid point above, yet again it doesn't affect me. I'm lucky that I've never had to deal with any of those prejudices that appear to be apparent if you're not an average joe such as I. I object to that wholeheartedly. I don't think people should be persecuted for their race or religion and to treat people as suspects when they've done nothing wrong is unacceptable. I can only speak for myself when I say that I don't care if someone in authority looks through my internet history. I'm sure it is open for misuse. I'm sure this whole country is wide open to abuse given the decisions of the arseholes in charge of it. However, I do not believe that I personally am under any risk of being accused of something because of my internet history. If they catch just one person who is planning a terrorist act then I'm happy for them to poke round my googling to do that. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future. "
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning. | |||
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"If anyone here truly believes they have nothing to hide, why not prove it by posting their last ten PM's? If they truly believe they have nothing to hide, that is." I'd be happy to but (1) it's against the rules of the site and (2) I'd need permission from the recipient cause they might not be as open as I am.
But posting the shite I write in PM isn't a good indication of my internet history. It wouldn't achieve anything other than satisfying some nosy people's curiosity so I don't think it's a good example. You'd have more c_edibility in your request if you'd asked for the last ten google searches. | |||
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"I see the 'if you have nothing to hide' argument, but still feel the liberty our parents and grandparents fought and died for should not be given away without extremely good reason. I am quite pro police, and believe that most will do their job properly and within the rules. However, let's not be fooled. They are NOT independent of the politicians. And politicians in power are not to be trusted. Not only can they not be trusted not to misuse the data, they cannot be trusted to properly fund it all so the data would be secure from cyber criminals. All govt I.T. contracts come in WAY over budget, never work as intended, and not usually very secure. So, don't worry about what the police will do with the data... Worry about what the self serving politicos and cyber criminals will do with it when they gain access. " Oh, I forgot.. Our politicos seem only to ready to 'share' our data with the yanks too ! | |||
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"If anyone here truly believes they have nothing to hide, why not prove it by posting their last ten PM's? If they truly believe they have nothing to hide, that is. I'd be happy to but (1) it's against the rules of the site and (2) I'd need permission from the recipient cause they might not be as open as I am.
But posting the shite I write in PM isn't a good indication of my internet history. It wouldn't achieve anything other than satisfying some nosy people's curiosity so I don't think it's a good example. You'd have more c_edibility in your request if you'd asked for the last ten google searches. "1) It's against the 'rules' of this country (by which I mean laws) to legally intercept your internet communications without a warrant, but the government are doing it anyway. 2) Why do you? If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. And you don't seem concerned that your fellow citizens may not be as open as you, you've already made that clear. Why is communication on Fab so privileged? | |||
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"If anyone here truly believes they have nothing to hide, why not prove it by posting their last ten PM's? If they truly believe they have nothing to hide, that is." Well i dunno about the pm ' s But here's a pic | |||
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"I've had several government checks for work and trust me I had to admit to everything even parking tickets ..They even asked my local shop about me ...was told they told them I'm addicted to revels. .so not bothe_ed and know they checked out my online stuff and if inter_ed it was to clean at mod building which I hated and offices that belong to prince Charles business which was fun and no longer do as left company " Worst I've had is a detailed PVG but I understand the need considering I work around children and vulnerable people... and occasionally in police buildings, fire stations etc etc. I doubt anyone cares that I have a much higher than average sex drive. | |||
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"But posting the shite I write in PM isn't a good indication of my internet history. It wouldn't achieve anything other than satisfying some nosy people's curiosity so I don't think it's a good example. You'd have more c_edibility in your request if you'd asked for the last ten google searches. "Nobody needs to know that my guilty pleasure is youtube trolling videos...  | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future.
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning."
We have a government that has _edefined poverty to manipulate their figures, so the 'done nothing wrong' argument doesn't mean your past can't be used against you in the future- if it suits them to _edefine other things in the future.
This is also the government (along with the previous two at least) who have seen nothing wrong with selling your DVLA data- the current lot will sell anything thats not nailed down- from the countryside to the NHS- how safe is that data?- it'll only get worse and knowledge is power.
The UK is rapidly becoming a place i just want to get as far away from as possible | |||
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"If anyone here truly believes they have nothing to hide, why not prove it by posting their last ten PM's? If they truly believe they have nothing to hide, that is. I'd be happy to but (1) it's against the rules of the site and (2) I'd need permission from the recipient cause they might not be as open as I am.
But posting the shite I write in PM isn't a good indication of my internet history. It wouldn't achieve anything other than satisfying some nosy people's curiosity so I don't think it's a good example. You'd have more c_edibility in your request if you'd asked for the last ten google searches.
1) It's against the 'rules' of this country (by which I mean laws) to legally intercept your internet communications without a warrant, but the government are doing it anyway.
2) Why do you? If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. And you don't seem concerned that your fellow citizens may not be as open as you, you've already made that clear. Why is communication on Fab so privileged? "1) You'd need to take that up with the Government cause it's not a question I have the answer to. 2) You'd need to take that up with Admin, I didn't make their rules so it's not something I can answer either. I can only speak for myself about how I feel. I can't speak for you or for anyone else so I'm not sure what else you'd like me to say? I have my _iews and you have yours. I don't think you should change your _iews if that's what you believe. | |||
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"It isn't about whether or not you have anything to hide. It isn't about whether other people have anything to hide. It is about privacy rights, misused of power, and intimidation. They don't want this power just so they can compile a book report. They act on the information they receive. My friend wasn't the only person being questioned on the stoop of their house. And she and her family had nothing to hide, either. Safety and security are important. But there are things more important. How far do we let it go? Let them check our internet history? Ok. Let them scan us before we get on a flight? Fine. Let them search your bags before you get on the subway? Sure (this happens regularly in NYC). At what point do we look around and say, "hmmm, seems things may have gone too far?" At what point do we ask our own governments, which should be working for us, to stop seeing us as the enemies? If they said they wanted to begin searching our homes, would that be too far? But why? Unless you have something to hide.... -Courtney"
The point when we look around and think things have gone too far is the point where it's already too late to stop it; this kind of thing is insidious.
The state isn't looking out for us, it's looking out for itself. Occasionally of course the two will cross over but it's main focus is it's own preservation. | |||
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"Throughout history every single State that failed, started to crack down on there own population as a first defence against its failings!... You really should be more worried about why there doing it!" A point, most pertinent | |||
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-Courtney | |||
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"I'm going to lighten the mood a bit and note how much better it feels to discuss this stuff with some clothes on my avatar. Quite liberating, really.
-Courtney"You talk to your clothes?!? | |||
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"If anyone here truly believes they have nothing to hide, why not prove it by posting their last ten PM's? If they truly believe they have nothing to hide, that is. I'd be happy to but (1) it's against the rules of the site and (2) I'd need permission from the recipient cause they might not be as open as I am.
But posting the shite I write in PM isn't a good indication of my internet history. It wouldn't achieve anything other than satisfying some nosy people's curiosity so I don't think it's a good example. You'd have more c_edibility in your request if you'd asked for the last ten google searches.
1) It's against the 'rules' of this country (by which I mean laws) to legally intercept your internet communications without a warrant, but the government are doing it anyway.
2) Why do you? If you have nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear. And you don't seem concerned that your fellow citizens may not be as open as you, you've already made that clear. Why is communication on Fab so privileged?
1) You'd need to take that up with the Government cause it's not a question I have the answer to.
2) You'd need to take that up with Admin, I didn't make their rules so it's not something I can answer either.
I can only speak for myself about how I feel. I can't speak for you or for anyone else so I'm not sure what else you'd like me to say? I have my _iews and you have yours. I don't think you should change your _iews if that's what you believe. "To be fair to you, you're not the only one trotting out 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', so you shouldn't be its only champion. It's about exposing the comment as an absurdity. If people here are not open about exposing their private communications to their fellow people on a sex site under the guise of privacy, people who at least would share some context and understanding of the likely content, the mind boggles at why they would feel someone rooting through same with the badge and indifference of authority would be sympathetic and use 'common sense'. | |||
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"To be fair to you, you're not the only one trotting out 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', so you shouldn't be its only champion. It's about exposing the comment as an absurdity. If people here are not open about exposing their private communications to their fellow people on a sex site under the guise of privacy, people who at least would share some context and understanding of the likely content, the mind boggles at why they would feel someone rooting through same with the badge and indifference of authority would be sympathetic and use 'common sense'." Well put | |||
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"To be fair to you, you're not the only one trotting out 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', so you shouldn't be its only champion. It's about exposing the comment as an absurdity. If people here are not open about exposing their private communications to their fellow people on a sex site under the guise of privacy, people who at least would share some context and understanding of the likely content, the mind boggles at why they would feel someone rooting through same with the badge and indifference of authority would be sympathetic and use 'common sense'." I'm not 'trotting out' though... I've asked why it's worrying. I don't worry about it. It's clear you think I should be but I'm not and nothing anyone has said makes me feel worried about it. I think the example of using PMs here isn't effective. For me there's an element of discretion in that amongst the other people who use this site. The authorities wouldn't find anything of interest in them so it's not a good example. If I were researching how to make a bomb for example or buying ing_edients to make a bomb then I dare say that would be of interest and rightly so. Exposing the content of random PMs on a swinging site is pointless. My mind isn't boggled by anything other than trying to work out why you've used that as an example! | |||
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"To be fair to you, you're not the only one trotting out 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', so you shouldn't be its only champion. It's about exposing the comment as an absurdity. If people here are not open about exposing their private communications to their fellow people on a sex site under the guise of privacy, people who at least would share some context and understanding of the likely content, the mind boggles at why they would feel someone rooting through same with the badge and indifference of authority would be sympathetic and use 'common sense'. I'm not 'trotting out' though... I've asked why it's worrying. I don't worry about it. It's clear you think I should be but I'm not and nothing anyone has said makes me feel worried about it. I think the example of using PMs here isn't effective. For me there's an element of discretion in that amongst the other people who use this site. The authorities wouldn't find anything of interest in them so it's not a good example. If I were researching how to make a bomb for example or buying ing_edients to make a bomb then I dare say that would be of interest and rightly so. Exposing the content of random PMs on a swinging site is pointless. My mind isn't boggled by anything other than trying to work out why you've used that as an example! "I've used it as an example because it is an excellent example. It illustrates why you feel you have nothing to fear - and that is you expect that the authorities will find nothing of interest in your communications. What you are failing to see is that what is of interest to the authorities, and it then follows how that may be used, is decided entirely by them, and not by you. So you have nothing to fear only as long as someone else decides you have nothing to fear. Your agency in this is precisely zero. As soon as it is decided that you being a moderator of chat on a sex site is 'subversive', and 'worthy of attention' (and it wouldn't take an unbelievable social shift for that to become the case), then you may find privacy becomes something more worthy of protection. | |||
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"I've used it as an example because it is an excellent example. It illustrates why you feel you have nothing to fear - and that is you expect that the authorities will find nothing of interest in your communications. What you are failing to see is that what is of interest to the authorities, and it then follows how that may be used, is decided entirely by them, and not by you. So you have nothing to fear only as long as someone else decides you have nothing to fear. Your agency in this is precisely zero. As soon as it is decided that you being a moderator of chat on a sex site is 'subversive', and 'worthy of attention' (and it wouldn't take an unbelievable social shift for that to become the case), then you may find privacy becomes something more worthy of protection." As much as I may agree with the sentiment of what yr saying, this is only gonna end in tears. I would have PM'd you but sadly you blocked all men. | |||
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Perhaps I should be concerned yet still I'm not. That may be naive as I'm sure not everyone has my standards when it comes to right and wrong but equally I have to have faith in the system else I'd spend my life being paranoid about what I can/cannot say out loud (or indeed in writing). I guess I choose to have faith. That's something you could probably pick holes in, it's something I should probably pick holes in but I'm not going to. | |||
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"Well thank you for explaining. Now I understand what you're getting at.
Perhaps I should be concerned yet still I'm not. That may be naive as I'm sure not everyone has my standards when it comes to right and wrong but equally I have to have faith in the system else I'd spend my life being paranoid about what I can/cannot say out loud (or indeed in writing). I guess I choose to have faith. That's something you could probably pick holes in, it's something I should probably pick holes in but I'm not going to. "Ha, yes, we would definitely have to agree to disagree on that point. | |||
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"I've used it as an example because it is an excellent example. It illustrates why you feel you have nothing to fear - and that is you expect that the authorities will find nothing of interest in your communications. What you are failing to see is that what is of interest to the authorities, and it then follows how that may be used, is decided entirely by them, and not by you. So you have nothing to fear only as long as someone else decides you have nothing to fear. Your agency in this is precisely zero. As soon as it is decided that you being a moderator of chat on a sex site is 'subversive', and 'worthy of attention' (and it wouldn't take an unbelievable social shift for that to become the case), then you may find privacy becomes something more worthy of protection. As much as I may agree with the sentiment of what yr saying, this is only gonna end in tears. I would have PM'd you but sadly you blocked all men. " No need for tears! | |||
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"Well thank you for explaining. Now I understand what you're getting at.
Perhaps I should be concerned yet still I'm not. That may be naive as I'm sure not everyone has my standards when it comes to right and wrong but equally I have to have faith in the system else I'd spend my life being paranoid about what I can/cannot say out loud (or indeed in writing). I guess I choose to have faith. That's something you could probably pick holes in, it's something I should probably pick holes in but I'm not going to.
Ha, yes, we would definitely have to agree to disagree on that point. "
If nothing else, we've shown how possible it is to have a debate with opposing opinions without it turning into a bunfight so for that I shall say thank you very much. | |||
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"Well thank you for explaining. Now I understand what you're getting at.
Perhaps I should be concerned yet still I'm not. That may be naive as I'm sure not everyone has my standards when it comes to right and wrong but equally I have to have faith in the system else I'd spend my life being paranoid about what I can/cannot say out loud (or indeed in writing). I guess I choose to have faith. That's something you could probably pick holes in, it's something I should probably pick holes in but I'm not going to.
Ha, yes, we would definitely have to agree to disagree on that point.
If nothing else, we've shown how possible it is to have a debate with opposing opinions without it turning into a bunfight so for that I shall say thank you very much. "And the same to you. Let our example ring throughout the forum! | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " . If you were a company exploring businness opportunities would you be happy if the police snooped on your internet activity and passed it on to rivals or maybe found about how much you were buying an item for , decided it was good value and purchased it themselves. Sadly we cannot trust the police to always act in our best interests .. | |||
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 KGB anyone? | |||
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"*waves at the nice policeman* "*waves truncheon at Felicity* | |||
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"Privacy is an important right of an individual. Give it away and you will never get it back. If you preach the "I have nothing to hide" mantra, you are begging for a police state.k" | |||
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"Privacy is an important right of an individual. Give it away and you will never get it back. If you preach the "I have nothing to hide" mantra, you are begging for a police state.k "Liberty is an important concept. We forget it at our peril. | |||
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"May end up like DVLA/NHS selling all your info to the highest bidder. Oh and privacy is not given away it's taken...I really weep sometimes at the mindset of people in this country...frogs on the boil... KGB anyone?". However the DVLA have valid reasons for selling the data . This is generally used to assist parking enforcement and we should be giving the DVLA our full support in enforcing penalty notices against motorists whose choose to ignore parking regulations . | |||
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"May end up like DVLA/NHS selling all your info to the highest bidder. Oh and privacy is not given away it's taken...I really weep sometimes at the mindset of people in this country...frogs on the boil... KGB anyone?. However the DVLA have valid reasons for selling the data . This is generally used to assist parking enforcement and we should be giving the DVLA our full support in enforcing penalty notices against motorists whose choose to ignore parking regulations . "Trouble maker lol. Someone once told me my local police force has shares for sale on the stockmaret, would explain the fines. Hearsay or truth not sure. | |||
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"Throughout history every single State that failed, started to crack down on there own population as a first defence against its failings!... You really should be more worried about why there doing it! A point, most pertinent " Biggest tosh of the day award! Has there ever been a state (current ones aside) that hasn't failed...maybe it failed cause the bread they ate, or the water they drank, or because everyone wore shoes!!! A point most pointless I'd say zzzz | |||
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"For those people who are glad this is being done because they think that they have nothing to hide, how many of them voluntarily submit their movements to the police each day, to make sure that they can be easily eliminated as suspects in any crimes? Or have voluntarily submitted their DNA to the police, for similar reasons? If not, why not? They've nothing to hide, after all." .Have these people never heard of contamination of evidence . I find it quite frightening that some people believe that DNA evidence is foolproof. All it ever proves is that someone has been in contact with someone , not ignoring the fact that unless procedures are carefully followed cross contamination is quite possible . Most miscarriages of justice involve foresenic evidence or misinterpretation of evidence by so called professional witnesses . I have seen one case where the police were telling witnesses the nature of the evidence against the suspect whilst taking statements . It hardly inspires a lot of confidence . | |||
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"Why is it worrying?
It's like CCTV... it's only worrying if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.
If they want to traipse through my internet history they'll be really bo_ed, really quickly and likely know lots about cats, skin cancer and shoes. " | |||
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"Why is it worrying?
It's like CCTV... it's only worrying if you're doing something you shouldn't be doing.
If they want to traipse through my internet history they'll be really bo_ed, really quickly and likely know lots about cats, skin cancer and shoes.
". How about if you are working on a confidential project that may or may not be a success . If the information is mis used , your years of work could be ruined and you might end up bankrupt through no fault of your own.. | |||
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"I am sure that the criminal classes will not like this law, but it always amazes me how many people get upset with proposals that remove the ability of criminals to act with impunity. The cry being "its against my civil rights" or "my rights to privacy", when actually what they are saying is 'this removes a way for criminals to go about their business freely and I demand the right to be a victim of crime!' In my opinion we should all carry biometric ID cards and have a national DNA database with everyone living in or visiting the UK being on it. " it amazes me that anyone would post what you have done without thinking it through but hey.. | |||
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"To be fair to you, you're not the only one trotting out 'if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear', so you shouldn't be its only champion. It's about exposing the comment as an absurdity. If people here are not open about exposing their private communications to their fellow people on a sex site under the guise of privacy, people who at least would share some context and understanding of the likely content, the mind boggles at why they would feel someone rooting through same with the badge and indifference of authority would be sympathetic and use 'common sense'. I'm not 'trotting out' though... I've asked why it's worrying. I don't worry about it. It's clear you think I should be but I'm not and nothing anyone has said makes me feel worried about it. I think the example of using PMs here isn't effective. For me there's an element of discretion in that amongst the other people who use this site. The authorities wouldn't find anything of interest in them so it's not a good example. If I were researching how to make a bomb for example or buying ing_edients to make a bomb then I dare say that would be of interest and rightly so. Exposing the content of random PMs on a swinging site is pointless. My mind isn't boggled by anything other than trying to work out why you've used that as an example! "That is exactly why you should be concerned. There is no chance PC 49 is going to be set the task of reading emails for the next 10 shifts, what would happen is a program would be used to trace certain key words or phrases such as bomb. Just using that word could trigger a response, it could even trigger a bunch of heavies with an enforcer knocking your door down at 4 am just to see if you have anything to hide. An exaggeration perhaps but then again perhaps not. | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future.
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning."Exactly this. It's much harder to repeal a law once it's brought in so once passed this law will be in for a very long time. Just because you have nothing to hide now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Nor will it necessarily be the case for any of your friends identified through trawling your on-line activity (it's more then just web history!)So you might inadvertently drop your family/friends etc in the shit. In twenty years time the government regime may well be far different from today. And any information trawled from the populations internet history could easily be used to 'format' the population dynamics in any way they like. They did it in Europe in the 30s just by using basic censor information! The apathy of those who feel it isn't their problem are the ones who will allow our freedoms to be eroded beyond acceptable levels. A little dramatic...maybe | |||
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I'm gonna send her back(only slightly damaged!)n just hope I get away with it..... | |||
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"I am sure that the criminal classes will not like this law, but it always amazes me how many people get upset with proposals that remove the ability of criminals to act with impunity. The cry being "its against my civil rights" or "my rights to privacy", when actually what they are saying is 'this removes a way for criminals to go about their business freely and I demand the right to be a victim of crime!' In my opinion we should all carry biometric ID cards and have a national DNA database with everyone living in or visiting the UK being on it. it amazes me that anyone would post what you have done without thinking it through but hey.. " Of course your right... The police have the power to seize any vehicle they believe is being driven illegally and arrest anyone to verify their identity if they do not believe them to be who they say they are... Much better for the police to have such sweeping powers than we all carry id cards... | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future.
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning.
Exactly this. It's much harder to repeal a law once it's brought in so once passed this law will be in for a very long time.
Just because you have nothing to hide now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Nor will it necessarily be the case for any of your friends identified through trawling your on-line activity (it's more then just web history!)So you might inadvertently drop your family/friends etc in the shit.
In twenty years time the government regime may well be far different from today. And any information trawled from the populations internet history could easily be used to 'format' the population dynamics in any way they like. They did it in Europe in the 30s just by using basic censor information!
The apathy of those who feel it isn't their problem are the ones who will allow our freedoms to be eroded beyond acceptable levels.
A little dramatic...maybe " | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future.
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning.
Exactly this. It's much harder to repeal a law once it's brought in so once passed this law will be in for a very long time.
Just because you have nothing to hide now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Nor will it necessarily be the case for any of your friends identified through trawling your on-line activity (it's more then just web history!)So you might inadvertently drop your family/friends etc in the shit.
In twenty years time the government regime may well be far different from today. And any information trawled from the populations internet history could easily be used to 'format' the population dynamics in any way they like. They did it in Europe in the 30s just by using basic censor information!
The apathy of those who feel it isn't their problem are the ones who will allow our freedoms to be eroded beyond acceptable levels.
A little dramatic...maybe "We live in a police state... All states are police states or failed states. As for the point about information held and how it is used (and was used in the 30s/40's) it is not basic id and biometric information that you need to be afraid of, its the extra questions that are asked (that you do not have to answer) for statistical purposes. Religion, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, that is the information you should all be wary of giving! | |||
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"I am sure that the criminal classes will not like this law, but it always amazes me how many people get upset with proposals that remove the ability of criminals to act with impunity. The cry being "its against my civil rights" or "my rights to privacy", when actually what they are saying is 'this removes a way for criminals to go about their business freely and I demand the right to be a victim of crime!' In my opinion we should all carry biometric ID cards and have a national DNA database with everyone living in or visiting the UK being on it. it amazes me that anyone would post what you have done without thinking it through but hey.. Of course your right... The police have the power to seize any vehicle they believe is being driven illegally and arrest anyone to verify their identity if they do not believe them to be who they say they are... Much better for th e police to have such sweeping powers than we all carry id cards..." . Yes they may have powers to seize vehicles which they believe to be driven illegally or arrest someone to verify their identity . However the public also have the power to sue the relevant police force if these powers are mis used . This is slightly different to allowing the police to _iew your browsing history for no valid reason.. | |||
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"We're rapidly moving from a policed state, to a police state, and the sad thing is that the majority of us accept it because we don't question how this will affect our liberty in the future.
I don't see why people can't grasp this and it's slightly concerning.
Exactly this. It's much harder to repeal a law once it's brought in so once passed this law will be in for a very long time.
Just because you have nothing to hide now doesn't mean that will always be the case. Nor will it necessarily be the case for any of your friends identified through trawling your on-line activity (it's more then just web history!)So you might inadvertently drop your family/friends etc in the shit.
In twenty years time the government regime may well be far different from today. And any information trawled from the populations internet history could easily be used to 'format' the population dynamics in any way they like. They did it in Europe in the 30s just by using basic censor information!
The apathy of those who feel it isn't their problem are the ones who will allow our freedoms to be eroded beyond acceptable levels.
A little dramatic...maybe "
Not read the whole thread but I am against the invasion of privacy en masse. No I don't have anything to hide but it is my private life what I do on the internet. And those who have blind faith in the Police are sadly misguided. Our Police are great compa_ed to the rest of the word but they are still far form perfect. | |||
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" Of course your right... The police have the power to seize any vehicle they believe is being driven illegally and arrest anyone to verify their identity if they do not believe them to be who they say they are... Much better for th e police to have such sweeping powers than we all carry id cards.... Yes they may have powers to seize vehicles which they believe to be driven illegally or arrest someone to verify their identity . However the public also have the power to sue the relevant police force if these powers are mis used . This is slightly different to allowing the police to _iew your browsing history for no valid reason.." The police are not being given the powers you think, they will have to get a court warrant signed by a judge. Effectively they are getting powers to bring wire tap warrants up to date. Rather than worrying about what might happen if the powers are misused you should be more worried about how criminals are already using the net to prey on law abiding people. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem "It is not about having nothing to hide/nothing to far it's partly about mass invasion of privacy. And what can happen to people where data is both accessed and interpreted. Such data interpretation could then be used to harm you. And this could be when you've done (nor planned) absolutely nothing wrong, but instead you are interpreted and judged to be the opposite. I am against the principle of mass surveillance powers, however they may be implemented, whether piece by piece or laws permitting them via loopholes or omission. | |||
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"Surprised no one has mentioned TOR, though it's not infallible. The downside is that if you use it, then you're likely to become a person of interest." . I access the internet through tor,I have to, as I'm a person of interest to the police! My crime is environmentalism and I have a police file full of information about my movements and associates, we learnt long ago that there watching and now we all use tor and its harder for them to"follow us". I don't doubt for a minute that "higher up" agencies can follow me through tor! | |||
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"Surely it's only viable to obtain and history from an existing IP address? Although technology isn't my strong point so I'm happy to be corrected and educated on the matter No you're up should be logging everything you do and they will know you up a dress even if it changes, they may even have a cess to mac a dresses (individual hardware address) but I don't know if that ever gets passed on past the router tbh" All ip traffic sent between pc and the Internet will can the device mac address in the header along with the ip info so everything can be trace back to a machine or phone no matter where or what it connected too. Same goes for all pictures you take it will show what they were taken with and a load of data about that device. Big bother is watching us all and has been for many year. | |||
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"I find it odd that the people using the nothing to hide, nothing to fear argument, are those same people that delay or hold in private, investigations and enquiries, for example, Chilcott, Dr Kelly, Child Abuse. And if they have nothing to hide, then why do they not want such trivia as their expenses made public? I have plenty that I wish to hide... that is not the same as saying I have done anything wrong. " . That's how open society's turn into closed societies! Create common enemies, control the press, have prisons outside of the rule of law, secret law enforcement, mass surveillance of its citizens, target the dissenters and harass citizens groups!... As I said before, they only ever do this when the states are going into failure of one kind or another Argentina, Thailand, China, Russia, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Italy/Rome, Greece.. The list of failing states that have done it is endless and it always comes as a surprise nobody in early thirties Germany suspected what was coming! | |||
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"Surely it's only viable to obtain and history from an existing IP address? Although technology isn't my strong point so I'm happy to be corrected and educated on the matter No you're up should be logging everything you do and they will know you up a dress even if it changes, they may even have a cess to mac a dresses (individual hardware address) but I don't know if that ever gets passed on past the router tbh All ip traffic sent between pc and the Internet will can the device mac address in the header along with the ip info so everything can be trace back to a machine or phone no matter where or what it connected too. Same goes for all pictures you take it will show what they were taken with and a load of data about that device. Big bother is watching us all and has been for many year." That pic data doesn't show on facebook, you can't get anything for a pic by default upload. You can even get rid of that data using your phone's settings. You can spoof mac addresses. And all you have to do is use public services for your internet and your pretty much untraceable. Not very convenient though. Am sure there'll be hackers raising funds to create their own private satellites and networks, they mentioned making them a while back, might go find out what's happening there actuyally.. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " That's assuming you know what they're looking for. What may be perfectly innocent and legal activity today could be a crime in the future | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem That's assuming you know what they're looking for. What may be perfectly innocent and legal activity today could be a crime in the future " | |||
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"...they've always had the power. They're just not denying it anymore." Exactly. | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem " The problem with a big brother style total surveillance society is that you rightly state that you don't currently have anything to hide. Currently. What history shows is that as the ability to pry into peoples lives increases, this tends to be matched with a gradual decrease in freedoms and increased legislation. So while you currently have nothing to hide, what happens when something you currently do legally is decla_ed illegal and you live in a total surveillance society so the authorities already know you are doing it. I hope I've explained that correctly | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem The problem with a big brother style total surveillance society is that you rightly state that you don't currently have anything to hide. Currently. What history shows is that as the ability to pry into peoples lives increases, this tends to be matched with a gradual decrease in freedoms and increased legislation. So while you currently have nothing to hide, what happens when something you currently do legally is decla_ed illegal and you live in a total surveillance society so the authorities already know you are doing it. I hope I've explained that correctly" spot on what happens if something that is totaly innocent now becomes something forbidden in the future say being a member of a campaign group etc govt sound more and more like the stasi every day | |||
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"If people have nothing to hide then i dont see the problem The problem with a big brother style total surveillance society is that you rightly state that you don't currently have anything to hide. Currently. What history shows is that as the ability to pry into peoples lives increases, this tends to be matched with a gradual decrease in freedoms and increased legislation. So while you currently have nothing to hide, what happens when something you currently do legally is decla_ed illegal and you live in a total surveillance society so the authorities already know you are doing it. I hope I've explained that correctlyspot on what happens if something that is totaly innocent now becomes something forbidden in the future say being a member of a campaign group etc govt sound more and more like the stasi every day " And before people say that wouldn't happen in Britain. 100 years ago, using heroin was legal. In the last fifty years, the membership of at least 10 organisations has been made illegal. In the last ten years some financial transactions have been made illegal. | |||
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"Just saw this in the Indeprndent. V worrying! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-to-be-given-powers-to-_iew-everyones-entire-internet-history-a6714581.html" so for years police have abused their power now they are getting the power to breach our privacy I'm sure we live in the UK not the usa next they will be able to detain a person for no reason at all and they will be walking round like they are the army with m16s and full riot gear maybe listen in on phone calls intercept text messages I'm sure this is a free country but then again I know my rights so they wouldn't get past my front door they are public servants I understand for people on registers and potential people that should be on those registers but without probable cause they have no right to just search your pc laptop or phones | |||
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"To the people who have no problem with this as they have nothing to hid you may as well open you house door and invite everyone in to have a look around cuz that is what it is essentially " | |||
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"A really interesting balanced thread with a variety of _iews. I think it is fair to ask for the motivation of the state to acquire more data, more powers to interpret and act on that data now and at any time in the future. I guess it comes down to the contract between the state and the citizen and the citizen and the state. The argument is that the state has a fundamental responsibility to protect the right to life of the citizen. These powers I don't believe are being sought to catch all kinds of criminal activity (although they can be,and are used for that). The argument that under pins it is the state's responsibility to protect us and our loved ones from a death or life changing injury as a result of a terrorist act. The basis of terror though is not to injure and kill the few but to terrorise the many and disrupt their free and open society. Change the people's behaviour so that they don't enjoy the things they did so that they change their policy around some (generally) geo-political cause such as the politics of the island of Ireland, the peverted religious fundamentalism of small numbers of people who call themselves Muslims, or white supremacists who seek a homogeneous society devoid of the richness of cultural variety we enjoy today. So a concern of mass surveillance and the collection and retention of data that provides details of our thoughts, likes, dislikes, prejudices, loves, activities, beliefs is that if in time the moral norms (as decided by the few in government) change we may be judged in a way we as individuals consider unreasonable, and so may moderate our moral behaviour in ways we are not happy or think unreasonable because of the state trying to protect our right to life. So the the things the state implements to stop us having to change the way we live do the very same thing. The reality of course is that it is impossible for the state to protect us, it will always fail at some point. Which naturally raises the questions: - Is there no end to the powers the state requires? If all this surveillance is formalised in law and then a family are blown up in Trafalgar Square next summer should we have more surveillance and more tools eg a webcam in every bedroom to catch bomb making that someone at MI5 or GCHQ can activate? How far is too far? We should ask ourselves how much privacy and freedom of expression am I willing to concede to further _educe the deaths? Also in pure economic terms, how much should we spend on internal security services and technology to save 1 life a year or 5 lives a year or 50 lives a year? Does that number change when it might be you, your children, your siblings, your parents or your closest friends who die? I've yet to hear any argument in the politicians debate about this to say how many deaths are acceptable from terrorism and so how much surveillance is too much, however many of our friends are family die. This is the discourse our society really needs to have. The counter argument is of course that the few in government are appointed by us and accountable to us. However, I certainly feel there is less democratic representation than in a long time in the UK we have had a series of governments that have been elected fairly by our system but with very small mandates and then make decisions and pass laws that may fundamentally change the society we and future generations live in. Phew... sorry for writing so much. Well done if you get this far... If I have a point I think it's that the future impact to our society of expression free of moral judgement is threatened by this and the benefits today of it are unclear. So don't introduce such laws and systems without a clear and open debate. " So, We must ask ourselves, What is the dictionary definition of "Terrorism"? The systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion But what is terror? According to the dictionary I hold in my hand, Terror, is violent or destructive acts Such as bombing committed by groups in order to intimidate a population, Or government into granting their demands but we have an issue with this because we follow our so called leaders blindly the only terrorist threat we have is our own government who blame Muslims and anyone else from the middle east why because it give them a backed reason to go over and bomb their homes for god as they always claim but all they really want is gold oil and drugs oh Wait that is god hahaha and after they bring in all these new laws that give us no privacy no freedom and they claim its for our own safety so ask yourself who the real terrorists are I hate to say it but these so called terrorists that we are so sca_ed of are just people defending what is theirs from the real terrorists | |||
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" But what is terror? According to the dictionary I hold in my hand, Terror, is violent or destructive acts Such as bombing committed by groups in order to intimidate a population, Or government into granting their demands but we have an issue with this because we follow our so called leaders blindly the only terrorist threat we have is our own government who blame Muslims and anyone else from the middle east why because it give them a backed reason to go over and bomb their homes for god as they always claim but all they really want is gold oil and drugs oh Wait that is god hahaha and after they bring in all these new laws that give us no privacy no freedom and they claim its for our own safety so ask yourself who the real terrorists are I hate to say it but these so called terrorists that we are so sca_ed of are just people defending what is theirs from the real terrorists " Your dictionary seems to give rather narrow definitions. I'd not rely on it if I was you but if we accept your definition of terror how are the government the only terrorist threat? Provisional IRA, dissident IRA, UDA, UVF, UFF and not a Muslim or middle east connection between them IS, Al Quaeda, Bokoh Harram Don't disagree with distrust in politicians but an argument that tries to say ALL the fault lies on one side is rather unconvincing. | |||
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"Shit,I Googled How to make a bath bomb,I'm gonna be raided " v good pmsl | |||
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