FabSwingers.com forum: Great News for Tara

By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Tara Hudson, the transgender female who faced 12 weeks jail, in a violent male prison, has had her case reviewed. Some of us discussed this troubling situation yesterday, thanks to Rachael.

Like over 100,000 others, many of us signed the change dot org's petition, which has added influence to getting her situation reassessed.

There's some information on the Independent's website here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/tara-hudson-over-55000-sign-petition-calling-for-transgender-woman-to-be-moved-from-all-male-prison-a6712336.html

Whilst we don't know the final outcome, at least it would appear that things are moving positively now.

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By *NaughtyCouple
over a year ago

St Albans

I (her) signed the petition. She is definitely in the wrong place and I am worried for her as is my husband. Thanks for the link and hope that things work out in her favour.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'll post back any progress that I hear. I was really upset when I learned about her and how she wasn't being with sufficient sensitivity and respect. Fingers crossed for her.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Why is she facing 12 weeks imprisonment?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is she facing 12 weeks imprisonment? "

Assault.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

She had pleaded guilty in advance, according to news reports, in the hope that her sentence wouldn't be as severe.

Her punishment is loss of liberty but being incarcerated in a male prison that's been officially reviewed as very violent, obviously presents the potential for rape, attacks and other trauma for a female. She's lived her whole adult life as a woman and the punishment for her crime is solely the loss of liberty: she's not contesting the prison sentence, merely that she's been forced into a male only prison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She had pleaded guilty in advance, according to news reports, in the hope that her sentence wouldn't be as severe.

That's not true - her family have requested she be released on tag.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

Most of this is inaccurate.

She's in no danger, never was.

She was never ever going to be put in general population.

Cries of 'rape rape' were just to sensationalise this and get numbers signing the petition

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Most of this is inaccurate.

She's in no danger, never was.

She was never ever going to be put in general population.

Cries of 'rape rape' were just to sensationalise this and get numbers signing the petition"

The cynic in me believes her family's media campaign and petition had a true motive of commuting her sentence. I still think she's completely stupid for her ill preparation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have just read that the appeal against her conviction has been dismissed.

It is important to point out that this different to the issue of where she will serve her sentence. The judge hearing her appeal has commented that the issue for the prison service and not the Court.

In relation to her guilty plea (for those who mentioned it above), I understand she only changed her plea on the morning of the hearing.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

This person should not be shown any leniency for assaulting another member of society. The maximum sentence for a common assault is 26 weeks; they have received only 12 weeks. They should be grateful for this

Having said that, the sentence is for the loss of liberty and not so that they can be assulated or raped. It is for that reason that I had signed the petition and will continue publicising this in whatever small way that I can

It was revealed that this person is antomically still male and their legal gender too is male. As I understand, people can change their legal gender without changing their anatomy. I did not know that and think that is wrong, but that would be a topic of a separate discussion

They could have changed their legal gender by completing an application form and paying a fee which, as stated in another thread, is in the region of £150. This is not that much money. All they had to do was not visit the pub they were arrested in carrying out the assault and would have saved this amount of money over 2 or 3 weekends

It is also said that this legal document can take upto 6 months to be issued. In this person's case, they had 6 years wearing female clothes so had plenty of time to sort this out

But all that is quite irrelavant at the moment as they are in danger so should remain segregrated in a male facility. Female facilities are for female prisoners and whilst they would have been female had they undergone the required changes to their anatomy, irrespective of the legal change, they have not. I have no idea what the 6 years of surgeries refers to in the articles but these certainly weren't to change their sex

So lets keep campaigning that the authorities keep them safe for the remainder of their sentence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have much sympathy for her plight. But no sympathy for anyone convicted of assault. Sorry.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"She had pleaded guilty in advance, according to news reports, in the hope that her sentence wouldn't be as severe.

That's not true - her family have requested she be released on tag. "

Correct; I read that too in the mainstream media

This person is no more special than another guy who broke the nose of some other woman. He would be incarcerated and so should they

This only difference is that this person, whilst anatomically and legally male, wears female clothing and presents a female persona. That puts them in very great danger of assault and rape within the general population of a male prison

A female prison is not for male prisoners no matter how short a skirt or how much makeup they put on. If that were the criteria, then a fair number of male prisoners would too wish to serve their sentences in female prisons. That would put female prisoners at risk and that is unacceptable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transgender should not be treated differently

If you do the crime you Do the time .

I Am sure that she would be kept safe in isolation and get a telly games console free food, warmth shelter dentist and medicine

Being transgender is not a get out of jail free card

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have much sympathy for her plight. But no sympathy for anyone convicted of assault. Sorry."

This is my sentiment, too. Everything that has happened was caused by her action and inaction, and she has put herself needlessly at risk.

I hope her custodial sentence gives her a chance to reconsider why she's made such poor decisions, and she chooses to change for the better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has tara had a sex change op?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have much sympathy for her plight. But no sympathy for anyone convicted of assault. Sorry.

This is my sentiment, too. Everything that has happened was caused by her action and inaction, and she has put herself needlessly at risk.

I hope her custodial sentence gives her a chance to reconsider why she's made such poor decisions, and she chooses to change for the better. "
. I actually googled it

She was described as having a worrying criminal with

8 convictions including assault and battery

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?"

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All they had to do was not visit the pub they were arrested in carrying out the assault and would have saved this amount of money over 2 or 3 weekends"

Wow, how much do you drink?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia. "

Well when i did biology at school a man had a penis and a woman a vigina,i used to work with a tv and he used to go in the womens toilets,and the women complained,its a grey area which will continue i suppose

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia. "

don't get me wrong... I fully sympathise with transgendered, and applaud anyone who feels the necessity to change their anatomy to reflect their inner self and biological 'true gender'

But in layman's terms...

a person who is carrying a gentleman's tackle in a female prison? shared showers? what of all the potential cases thereafter??

simple fact is there are no prisons for those going through the transition.... those who get sentenced to prison do so by the courts.... and quite simply go where the bodily gender is most matching....

or am I missing the point?

point is.... keep out of bother and don't go to prison may be the answer.

So [put them in solitary confinement.... then another outrage as a trans person is not allowed to mix... so lets build a new prison for trans persons going through the transition... but will have to be staffed by guards who have also been trans or experienced it?

I am far from a homophobic dinosaur, but they will be out in 5 weeks anyway....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

Its a grey area in the eyes of the law i meant to say,i have my own personal opinion but i will keep it to myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

don't get me wrong... I fully sympathise with transgendered, and applaud anyone who feels the necessity to change their anatomy to reflect their inner self and biological 'true gender'

But in layman's terms...

a person who is carrying a gentleman's tackle in a female prison? shared showers? what of all the potential cases thereafter??

or am I missing the point?

point is.... keep out of bother and don't go to prison may be the answer.

I am far from a homophobic dinosaur, but they will be out in 5 weeks anyway.... "

You're wrong, they go to the prison of the gender they legally identify as.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"All they had to do was not visit the pub they were arrested in carrying out the assault and would have saved this amount of money over 2 or 3 weekends

Wow, how much do you drink?!

Martini Processco; a bottle is normally £20; ok, ok, 7 visits to the pub

But the real question is: are you taking me out for a drink?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

don't get me wrong... I fully sympathise with transgendered, and applaud anyone who feels the necessity to change their anatomy to reflect their inner self and biological 'true gender'

But in layman's terms...

a person who is carrying a gentleman's tackle in a female prison? shared showers? what of all the potential cases thereafter??

or am I missing the point?

point is.... keep out of bother and don't go to prison may be the answer.

I am far from a homophobic dinosaur, but they will be out in 5 weeks anyway....

You're wrong, they go to the prison of the gender they legally identify as. "

I have a novel idea that no one else has thought of

If as a transgender person you don't want to go to prison don't commit a crime let alone 8

This also go for gays lezers straight and bi

Quite simple if you don't commit crimes yoy don't go to prison

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"I have much sympathy for her plight. But no sympathy for anyone convicted of assault. Sorry.

This is my sentiment, too. Everything that has happened was caused by her action and inaction, and she has put herself needlessly at risk.

I hope her custodial sentence gives her a chance to reconsider why she's made such poor decisions, and she chooses to change for the better. . I actually googled it

She was described as having a worrying criminal with

8 convictions including assault and battery

The above is all very disturbing but they still require extra protection because of their unusual circumstances

If they were born female, she would have been sent to a female prison (a 'no-brainer')

If they were born male and had undergone full gender reassignment surgeries and had obtained legal recognition, she would have been sent to a female prision (another 'no-brainer')

If they were born male and had undergone full gender reassignment surgeries but had not obtained legal recognition, she would most probably been sent to a female prison (most of us would see the logic of that, even if it may not be legally correct)

If they were born male and did not undergo any gender reassignment surgery but had obtained legal recognition, they would have been sent to a female prison (I guess some will agree with that; frankly, I am unsure but do recognise that this is not as black and white as it initially appears to be)

But in this case, they were born male, have not undergone any gender reassignment surgery (i.e., still has a penis) and has not obtained legal recognition. However, it is their right to except to serve their sentence in safety, which is not possible as they present as female, i.e., transgender. Having said that, this alone is not sufficient cause to house them in a female prision where they themselves could be a threat to female prisoners or in the very least, start a precedence where other male prisioners start demanding the same too

Building transgender prisons, although on the face of it seems like the obvious solution for these 'in-between' cases where the transition is 'work-in-progress' or they are still undecided, is not a practical

A possible solution would be to provide separate (isolation) and safe facilities in existing prisons for such cases. They should be given the choice of a female or male prision. If they object to isolation in a female prision and have male genitalia, then they are welcome to choose a separate facility in a male prison. If they object to that too, then they can serve their sentence in with the general population of a male prision

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

don't get me wrong... I fully sympathise with transgendered, and applaud anyone who feels the necessity to change their anatomy to reflect their inner self and biological 'true gender'

But in layman's terms...

a person who is carrying a gentleman's tackle in a female prison? shared showers? what of all the potential cases thereafter??

or am I missing the point?

point is.... keep out of bother and don't go to prison may be the answer.

I am far from a homophobic dinosaur, but they will be out in 5 weeks anyway....

You're wrong, they go to the prison of the gender they legally identify as.

I have a novel idea that no one else has thought of

If as a transgender person you don't want to go to prison don't commit a crime let alone 8

This also go for gays lezers straight and bi

Quite simple if you don't commit crimes yoy don't go to prison

This isn't utopia. Crimes will always be committed.

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

such an articulate observation....

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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago

Chippenham Malmesbury area

This a difficult one, she doesn't want to be incarserated in a male prison for her crime; I understand this as it could put her at harm. She is however going to prison for violence and has eight previous offences including battery.

Woman inmates have the right to refuse to have a man (her sex is still registered as male) amoungst them especially one that has a high possibility of doing them harm.

She is quite clearly a threat to others - given her preferential treatment because of her ambiguous gender would lessen the impact of the sentence; prison is supposed to rehabilitate, allowing a violant criminal to dictate where they serve their sentence may effect this process.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

I'm sorry Sophie, I have a lot of sympathy for the hardships and discrimination that tv/ts people must suffer every day of their lives. However this person is a violent, repeat offender, who was only given a conditional discharge 3 weeks previously for a separate violent offence. With 8 previous convictions, and an initial demand not to serve in a woman's prison, but to be released once again, it does really look like she was happy to try to use her body to embarrass the authorities into letting her avoid a custodial sentence yet again, but this time she finally failed.

I am confident that, by serving her month or so in the hospital wing, separate from other inmates, she is in no danger.

If she was moved to a woman's prison, she would still have to serve her sentence in isolation in the hospital wing there because she has chosen to remain legally a man.

The part I disagree with is the indignity of forcing her to serve 'as a man', but since it appears this was ultimately her choice, or her gamble, I don't feel quite so strongly as I otherwise might.

Let's hope she gets all her paperwork in order before she beats up the next innocent bystander...

Mr ddc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/10/15 17:06:56]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That is good news and she is in the wrong place, but remember we should not say it is right what she have done, as no one get send down for 12 weeks for nothing.

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By *iker boy 69Man
over a year ago

midlands

my ex was a screw and some of the things she told me about prison then this person would be in no threat at all. a certain prison has a wing nicknamed married quaters due to volume of trans gender males wanting to be female and their partners on same wing. there are also enough gay inmates that dont recieve violence due to who thet are. in general rapist are among the most hated of inmates and a mass majority of cons would stop a rape happening. and ad this person had only got a 3 month stretch then theyre not going to be going to a prison with such high risk inmates. probably go sudbury open or somewhere like

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has tara had a sex change op?

She's had top surgery and identifies as female, just not legally. She still has male genitalia.

don't get me wrong... I fully sympathise with transgendered, and applaud anyone who feels the necessity to change their anatomy to reflect their inner self and biological 'true gender'

But in layman's terms...

a person who is carrying a gentleman's tackle in a female prison? shared showers? what of all the potential cases thereafter??

or am I missing the point?

point is.... keep out of bother and don't go to prison may be the answer.

I am far from a homophobic dinosaur, but they will be out in 5 weeks anyway....

You're wrong, they go to the prison of the gender they legally identify as.

I have a novel idea that no one else has thought of

If as a transgender person you don't want to go to prison don't commit a crime let alone 8

This also go for gays lezers straight and bi

Quite simple if you don't commit crimes yoy don't go to prison

Lezers? Really? In this age people still say this? Wow

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By *NaughtyCouple
over a year ago

St Albans

Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago

Chippenham Malmesbury area

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison "

This is a victory for her but not necessarily for the female inmates of whichever prison she goes to.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her... "

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

This was my concern with signing the petition - I (cynically) believe it to be her actual motive for the media coverage. I'm glad the decision to move her to a female prison was made, instead of tagging her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

That's how I read it as well she was playing on the transgender get out of jail free card

I can tell you with all honesty and with no doubts in my mind . She was better of in normal population at a men's prison than in segregation at a woman's prison

There are some real nasty women in those places . Much worse than men's prison

The crimes women commit are usually a lot worse and a lot more violent than men . But men commit more crimes

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By *NaughtyCouple
over a year ago

St Albans

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Absolutely agree - she needs to serve her sentence but in the appropriate place. Hopefully she will learn her lesson, gain some anger management training and stop assaulting others which would never have happened if she was tagged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

She lives her life as a woman, so it's fitting that she's in a woman's prison. We can't say what's best for her but I and many others here felt that it was not appropriate for a woman to be incarcerated in a men's prison, so we added our voice to the online petition. It was inhumane to expect a woman to be kept in a man's prison and reminiscent of something from the dark ages.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She lives her life as a woman, so it's fitting that she's in a woman's prison. We can't say what's best for her but I and many others here felt that it was not appropriate for a woman to be incarcerated in a men's prison, so we added our voice to the online petition. It was inhumane to expect a woman to be kept in a man's prison and reminiscent of something from the dark ages."

Yes - and most agree with that, however it is not what her family asked for or how they portrayed the situation in the petition.

It really could've been avoided by Tara preparing fully. The magistrates were left with no choice due to her laziness.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes - and most agree with that, however it is not what her family asked for or how they portrayed the situation in the petition.

It really could've been avoided by Tara preparing fully. The magistrates were left with no choice due to her laziness. "

This was totally avoidable, if she had not assaulted someone in the first place!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes - and most agree with that, however it is not what her family asked for or how they portrayed the situation in the petition.

It really could've been avoided by Tara preparing fully. The magistrates were left with no choice due to her laziness.

This was totally avoidable, if she had not assaulted someone in the first place! "

Yeh, course. She strikes me as the kind of person who has things just "happen" to them, instead of being responsible.

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Although the prison sentences handed out are the punishment, through loss of a person's liberty, a key aim of our justice system is to prevent re-offending, so that our society is safer etc.

If it's appropriate that she is in prison, then our system should be aiming to rehabilitate her, so that her future is lived in a manner that society demands. How well the prison service today manages to do that for our prisoners is another story. It's not easy for staff to work in often violent institutions, that are overcrowded and where funds are limited and I certainly don't envy them their jobs today.

But, on the positive side, this is a good result today. The power of citizen action has undoubtedly been influential. I hope that this type of campaigning will not be needed in future.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although the prison sentences handed out are the punishment, through loss of a person's liberty, a key aim of our justice system is to prevent re-offending, so that our society is safer etc.

But, on the positive side, this is a good result today. The power of citizen action has undoubtedly been influential. I hope that this type of campaigning will not be needed in future."

There's something clearly wrong with her considering her violent history. She has to be remanded and punished.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?"

Because she identifies as a female, and that needs to be respected.

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By *trawberry-popWoman
over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?"

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not. "

Incredible that supposed adults are so ignorant.

I'm surprised daily by what I read on here. Her right to be recognised as a woman is set in law. To insist she is a he breaks that law because it would offend her to hear it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

Incredible that supposed adults are so ignorant.

I'm surprised daily by what I read on here. Her right to be recognised as a woman is set in law. To insist she is a he breaks that law because it would offend her to hear it. "

To be fair, she is legally a male. It's just polite and right to respect what she chooses to identify as, it's not a criminal offence.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 30/10/15 20:12:08]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although the prison sentences handed out are the punishment, through loss of a person's liberty, a key aim of our justice system is to prevent re-offending, so that our society is safer etc.

But, on the positive side, this is a good result today. The power of citizen action has undoubtedly been influential. I hope that this type of campaigning will not be needed in future.

i thought she lost the appeal, at least that is what i read on the BBC this afternoon?"

The Indepedent has reported she was moved to a female prison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

She lost her appeal to be released early.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Although the prison sentences handed out are the punishment, through loss of a person's liberty, a key aim of our justice system is to prevent re-offending, so that our society is safer etc.

But, on the positive side, this is a good result today. The power of citizen action has undoubtedly been influential. I hope that this type of campaigning will not be needed in future.

i thought she lost the appeal, at least that is what i read on the BBC this afternoon?

The Indepedent has reported she was moved to a female prison."

yeah, just thought i would check the report again and now it says she was moved to a female prison.....god knows what was going on at lunch time lol

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"She lost her appeal to be released early. "

ah, gotcha

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"She lost her appeal to be released early.

ah, gotcha

Actually, that report details the abuse she has encountered - being segregated and being asked to "show us your tits" when being transported to court. Luckily it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as initially thought.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

Because she identifies as a female, and that needs to be respected. "

Agreed

Despite the fact that I feel somewhat misled by the campaign, I too feel that living as a woman for so many years means that treating them as a man is at the least uncaring and at worst, cause psychological damage to them

Yes, they are male in as much as that they have male genitalia but I am starting to question my own definition of what gender really is. It cannot be just what is between the legs as by that definition I am male every time I whip out my strap-on from my toy collection

However, she does need some kind of anger management treatment. Again, I am not privy to the circumstances but from what I read, another woman passed some disparaging comments and she retailiated with physical violence. Violence can be justfied by mitigating circumstances but I don't think it can be in this case

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

Because she identifies as a female, and that needs to be respected.

Agreed

I think the question of her gender is for her to decide, not us.

She definitely needs to be helped from attacking people. To head butt someone and cause them to lose their teeth, just for refusal of service, is not something a stable person would do. She's better off incarcerated.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not. "

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *trawberry-popWoman
over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though"

She has breasts though...usually only found on women.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though

She has breasts though...usually only found on women. "

Yes, you are ofcourse correct

I have learnt a lot on these forums in the past one year. A year ago my views on this topic were pretty black and white. Gender = anatomy; I am not so sure now. I have begun to realise that it is not so simple as that

Still not sure how I would feel if someone walked into the changing room in my gym who identified as female but had male genitalia. I guess as a sexually liberated woman it would not phase me too much; I have seen male genitalia before; and they all looks the same

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though

She has breasts though...usually only found on women.

Yes, you are ofcourse correct

I've been fucking with your head, haven't I ?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though

She has breasts though...usually only found on women.

Yes, you are ofcourse correct

I've been fucking with your head, haven't I ?

One could say that; xxx

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

Maybe sending Tara to a male prison is a little excessive or maybe spending 6 weeks scared to death that it (not sure what Tara is so calling it it) is going to be gang raped will save some other poor unfortunate an undeserved kicking!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her".

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

She has not had gender reassignment surgey and still has a penis. However, I am not sure anymore that just having a piece of anatomy a few cms long qualifies as being male though

She has breasts though...usually only found on women.

Yes, you are ofcourse correct

I've been fucking with your head, haven't I ?

One could say that; xxx"

You know I love you

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her". "

I have never met a woman with a penis (strapons don't count), I equally have never met a woman who has been sent to jail for assault. Violent aggression, and penises are male traits not female therefore I would suggest that my point about what Tara is is valid.

And I will say again.

Wow!

Poor little thug Tara has been sent to a male prison.

Maybe if Tara had kept Taras hands to herself Tara would not be facing jail time...

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

It is not only Tara who needs help in controlling her rage!

Ofcourse there is a victim in all of this and it isn't Tara. And this case will not have seen the publicity it has had she been sentenced and was incarcerated in a women's prison

I was under the impression that you are a member of a civilised society where we do not threaten people with cruel and disproportionate punishments

Tara is as much female as I am or any other woman on this forum is. Every time I think of the possibility of her ending up in a male prison I feel a chill run down my spine. The words that you have used have accomplished the same result!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

It is not only Tara who needs help in controlling her rage!

Ofcourse there is a victim in all of this and it isn't Tara. And this case will not have seen the publicity it has had she been sentenced and was incarcerated in a women's prison

I was under the impression that you are a member of a civilised society where we do not threaten people with cruel and disproportionate punishments

I beg to differ, Tara has a cock...

and I got chills, dem multiplyin, and am loosin control....

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!"

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten.....

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her".

And I will say again.

Wow!

Poor little thug Tara has been sent to a male prison.

Maybe if Tara had kept Taras hands to herself Tara would not be facing jail time..."

so just because YOU haven't experienced something it doesn't exist?? what utter bollocks!!

Of course aggression and violence in women happens....there are prisons (admittedly not as many as male ones) full of women sentenced for violent crimes....naturally born women at that.

no-one is dusputing the sentance SHE got or the fact that she needs help with her aggression....they are just discussing where would be the most appropriate place to house her whilst she is in custody. the fact that you think gang rape (or the threat of it at least) is an acceptable punishment for anyone probably says a lot about you.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten....."

maybe they want to be forgotten?

Maybe they saw that she got a prison term and was happy about it. none of this media campaign has lessened her sentence or made people feel she has been hard done by by it.

This isnt about the crime she committed or the sentence she was handed.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

It is not only Tara who needs help in controlling her rage!

Ofcourse there is a victim in all of this and it isn't Tara. And this case will not have seen the publicity it has had she been sentenced and was incarcerated in a women's prison

I was under the impression that you are a member of a civilised society where we do not threaten people with cruel and disproportionate punishments

I beg to differ, Tara has a cock...

and I got chills, dem multiplyin, and am loosin control....

Oh, so what defines you as a man is 10 - 15 cms of flesh. I would have hoped that a man is much, much more than something this insignificant

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her".

And I will say again.

Wow!

Poor little thug Tara has been sent to a male prison.

Maybe if Tara had kept Taras hands to herself Tara would not be facing jail time...

Her gender has nothing to do with her offence. You're just ignorant and a moron

I agree Taras gender has nothing to do with Taras offence. So why has it anything to do with Taras punishment? Rather than calling me ignorant and a moron while defending a convicted thug because of their ambiguous gender, you may want to ask yourself why so many violent people think they can act with impunity. I would suggest it is because there are too many people will to use any excuse to defend the indefensible."

they aren't defending the indefensible though...no one has said she shouldn't go to jail but placing someone in segregation because they cannot be located with the main population based on a very draconian back and white view on gender is ridiculous.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten.....

maybe they want to be forgotten?

Maybe they saw that she got a prison term and was happy about it. none of this media campaign has lessened her sentence or made people feel she has been hard done by by it.

This isnt about the crime she committed or the sentence she was handed."

in which case i then wonder how much say her fellow women inmates get in whether they have to for example share a cell with her.... besides the fact she is violent......

she may indentify herself as female, it doesn't mean her other inmates will.....

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten.....

maybe they want to be forgotten?

Maybe they saw that she got a prison term and was happy about it. none of this media campaign has lessened her sentence or made people feel she has been hard done by by it.

This isnt about the crime she committed or the sentence she was handed.

in which case i then wonder how much say her fellow women inmates get in whether they have to for example share a cell with her.... besides the fact she is violent......

she may indentify herself as female, it doesn't mean her other inmates will....."

Tbf they're criminals too. I don't think they get a moral high ground of which type of criminal they would like to share with. The prison will do a risk assessment and that will be that.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Next stop celebrity big brother! I reckon her career will be on the up 'n up!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

As for the talk about her offence - I assume that this punishment was appropriate and that this will help her to not pursue a criminal path in the future.

Wishing her a safe stay that's productive, whilst she's inside

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ophieslut OP TV/TS
over a year ago

Central

"Next stop celebrity big brother! I reckon her career will be on the up 'n up!"

If it keeps her on the straight and narrow, I'm all for it. She's probably better known than many of them that go in the celebrity shows.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

Individuals who have undergone and completed sex reassignment surgery are sometimes referred to as transsexed individuals; however, the term transsexed is not to be confused with the term transexual, which can also refer to individuals who have not yet undergone SRS, and whose anatomical sex (still) does not match

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten.....

maybe they want to be forgotten?

Maybe they saw that she got a prison term and was happy about it. none of this media campaign has lessened her sentence or made people feel she has been hard done by by it.

This isnt about the crime she committed or the sentence she was handed.

in which case i then wonder how much say her fellow women inmates get in whether they have to for example share a cell with her.... besides the fact she is violent......

she may indentify herself as female, it doesn't mean her other inmates will.....

Tbf they're criminals too. I don't think they get a moral high ground of which type of criminal they would like to share with. The prison will do a risk assessment and that will be that. "

They have both single occupancy and shared cells...i am sure they will find a workable solution which means she will be able to serve her imposed sentence and participate in the prisons regime which will include some rehabilitation work.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Yeah - Tara now to be moved to a female prison

This is a victory for her...

No it's not, she was arguing to serve no prison time at all due to her circumstances.

Funny how no one has mentioned her victim. You dont get 3 months for nothing!

this.... there is a certain amount of irony is that the thug who attacked someone gets to play "victim".. and yet the true victim of the crime is somehow forgotten.....

maybe they want to be forgotten?

Maybe they saw that she got a prison term and was happy about it. none of this media campaign has lessened her sentence or made people feel she has been hard done by by it.

This isnt about the crime she committed or the sentence she was handed.

in which case i then wonder how much say her fellow women inmates get in whether they have to for example share a cell with her.... besides the fact she is violent......

she may indentify herself as female, it doesn't mean her other inmates will....."

This question must never be posed to individuals for a vote. This decision is something which, as a society, we hand over to the judiciary

There is legislation defining gender recognition and prison rules. Consultation must have been sought when such legislation was devised over a decade ago. It is not up for debate every so often

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

so your cock is the only thing that defines you as a male? and a vagina is the only thing that defines a woman?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

eeerrrrrm yes, that and the fact I can parallel park.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Next stop celebrity big brother! I reckon her career will be on the up 'n up!

If it keeps her on the straight and narrow, I'm all for it. She's probably better known than many of them that go in the celebrity shows."

Absolutely farcical. She's a criminal. She should not be allowed to monetise her disgusting behaviour. This kind of support is ridiculous and only sets back the struggles of transgender people as a whole.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"eeerrrrrm yes, that and the fact I can parallel park.

gosh...i'd hate to be defined by my foof

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

where has wasp-hunter gone? she'd be all over this thread!!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

You forgot to add "in my opinion".

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

in my opinion doesn't come into it all....

the next bit is.... you better shape up...

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

This is a whole new discussion but I would hazard a guess that anyone who lives their life as female (or male) opposite to their gender assigned at birth must be thinking of gender reassignment surgery so that they are fully anatomically female

Whilst I realise that such surgery is a major undertaking, I am not certain why it has already taken 6 years

However, let us just assume that this is 'work-in-progress' and someone who has come this far is likely to continue to the bitter end. Just because there has been a delay does not mean that they are not female

Anyway, this is a separate discussion. I am female because I am female and not because I have ownership of a vagina. That would not define me as female; that would define me as an object! Neither Tara nor I nor anyone else here are objects

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"where has wasp-hunter gone? she'd be all over this thread!!"

Why? Because all trans/gender-queer people must always stick together regardless of the crime?

That's the bit I find confusing, that now that the truth has been more widely reported, we're expected to gloss over the unpalatable bits.

I'm old-fashioned equality - I find it simpler to ask "what if a man had violently assaulted a woman?"

Eight times.

Would we still be saying "poor chap, I hope he gets the help he deserves"?

I know WaspHunter wouldn't - she's quite outspoken about violence, and rightly so

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

Whilst I realise that such surgery is a major undertaking, I am not certain why it has already taken 6 years

Well it goes against transgender equalities. And negates interested people completely. It's a silly suggestion of his.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"where has wasp-hunter gone? she'd be all over this thread!!

Why? Because all trans/gender-queer people must always stick together regardless of the crime?

That's the bit I find confusing, that now that the truth has been more widely reported, we're expected to gloss over the unpalatable bits.

I'm old-fashioned equality - I find it simpler to ask "what if a man had violently assaulted a woman?"

Eight times.

Would we still be saying "poor chap, I hope he gets the help he deserves"?

I know WaspHunter wouldn't - she's quite outspoken about violence, and rightly so"

But very few people are saying that. People simply want her to serve her time in a female prison as she is female. It wouldn't be accepted if a cisgender were sent to the wrong prison.

Most are saying she is a violent offender and needs help to stop - just like most would say regardless of gender.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"where has wasp-hunter gone? she'd be all over this thread!!

Why? Because all trans/gender-queer people must always stick together regardless of the crime?

That's the bit I find confusing, that now that the truth has been more widely reported, we're expected to gloss over the unpalatable bits.

I'm old-fashioned equality - I find it simpler to ask "what if a man had violently assaulted a woman?"

Eight times.

Would we still be saying "poor chap, I hope he gets the help he deserves"?

I know WaspHunter wouldn't - she's quite outspoken about violence, and rightly so"

because she was always very articulate on the issues of gender and the fact that it i not as black and white as some like to think. She would have bought an interesting strand to the debate i feel.

once again....no one on this thread has said that the crime Tara committed was justified or defensible or that the sentence given by the judge was wrong or harsh etc. in fact she appealed that (as is her right to ask along with all others who are tried and convicted) and it was thrown out because of her criminal history.

i hope that anyone going to prison gets help in their to rehabilitate, regardless of gender...that s the whole point of the prison system these days, not to just let people rot.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"where has wasp-hunter gone? she'd be all over this thread!!

Why? Because all trans/gender-queer people must always stick together regardless of the crime?

That's the bit I find confusing, that now that the truth has been more widely reported, we're expected to gloss over the unpalatable bits.

I'm old-fashioned equality - I find it simpler to ask "what if a man had violently assaulted a woman?"

Eight times.

Would we still be saying "poor chap, I hope he gets the help he deserves"?

I know WaspHunter wouldn't - she's quite outspoken about violence, and rightly so"

No, I would not be

And Tara should have received the full 26 week custodial sentence in a female prison. And if that had happened, as it has now, none of us would have caused all these poor little electrons to run around like crazy

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

Whilst I realise that such surgery is a major undertaking, I am not certain why it has already taken 6 years

Well it goes against transgender equalities. And negates interested people completely. It's a silly suggestion of his. "

nothing against transgender issues at all...

Tara remains transgendered,, that's the 'issue' in question...

Tara, the transgendered male living as female, (or female trapped in a males body if you wish) and at 26 years of age has not fully gone through the transition to become transexxed is a criminal who has been sent to prison.

Tara is undoubtedly a person with complex issues who is now if a female prison, but rightly should not be fully integrated into the mainstream female prison population because she is in possession of some gentlemanly articles...

Imagine how many 'straight' women sent to prison for fraud offences and non violent matters would then claim against the prison service having been exposed to meat and two veg in the showers rather than the canteen??

a very strange set of circumstances indeed .

There will only ever be one person who comes out of this well, and that is not the victim, it will undoubtedly be Tara

...the big brother house will beckon, and stardom awaits....

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"au contraire mon cheri...

you simply said tara is as much a female...

I said Tara has a cock...

Tara is not going through transition it is reported,,, therefore remains transgendered...

if Tara was to be considered as much as a woman as anyone else of the female gender.... I am afraid the cock has to go....

I feel at the moment....

I'm loosing control, for the power your supplying... its electrifying....

Whilst I realise that such surgery is a major undertaking, I am not certain why it has already taken 6 years

Well it goes against transgender equalities. And negates interested people completely. It's a silly suggestion of his.

nothing against transgender issues at all...

Tara remains transgendered,, that's the 'issue' in question...

a very strange set of circumstances indeed .

There will only ever be one person who comes out of this well, and that is not the victim, it will undoubtedly be Tara

...the big brother house will beckon, and stardom awaits....

I do not know what transexxed is and why it is spelt with two xx. Either she is female (or can be female) or she is not female (or cannot ever be female)

The opinion of many is that it is not what is between her legs what makes her male; but it is what is between her ears which makes her female; and she has demonstrated what is between her ears by living as some/most females do over the last 6 years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was big talking point at lunchtime today. In a vastly male orientated workplace, most of us thought a male prison would have been right up her street. Its like all Christmases and birthday's all rolled into one

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"This was big talking point at lunchtime today. In a vastly male orientated workplace, most of us thought a male prison would have been right up her street. Its like all Christmases and birthday's all rolled into one

why?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cock...

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Why? Is that how you see women? As sex objects? Not only are you wrong about her but are also on the wrong website. Watching too much porn skews ones view of reality

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By *trawberry-popWoman
over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

"Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her".

And I will say again.

Wow!

Poor little thug Tara has been sent to a male prison.

Maybe if Tara had kept Taras hands to herself Tara would not be facing jail time..."

What a narrow minded view.

There are plenty of women in jail for violent assaults...and with some people around i'd be driven to it as well.

Just because you haven't met someone like that doesn't mean they don't exist. Or did you forget the world doesn't revolve around you?

Having a penis doesn't make you a man.

Nor does being a dickhead.

Much like having a vagina doesn't make you a woman...

Nor does being a cunt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?"

Is she? What if she is?

Plenty of images of blonde women on this site with all the ink. What are you getting at?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?

Is she? What if she is?

Plenty of images of blonde women on this site with all the ink. What are you getting at?"

I'd like to put a face to a name.

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

"Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?

Is she? What if she is?

Plenty of images of blonde women on this site with all the ink. What are you getting at?"

potentially putting a face to the name???? does it matter? what are you getting at ?getting at him for getting at?....

incidentally it is the blond with big boobs......

and the cock....

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

"Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?

Is she? What if she is?

Plenty of images of blonde women on this site with all the ink. What are you getting at?

I'd like to put a face to a name."

great minds and all that.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is she facing 12 weeks imprisonment? "

She headbutted a barman supposedly.

Wonder what he did to deserve it though.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Is she the blond on google images with all the ink? And the big boobs?

Is she? What if she is?

Plenty of images of blonde women on this site with all the ink. What are you getting at?

potentially putting a face to the name???? does it matter? what are you getting at ?getting at him for getting at?....

incidentally it is the blond with big boobs......

and the cock.... "

Oh, I see; he is asking about images of a blonde woman with the ink, for identification purposes. Was this image in the press with her name underneath it? If it was, then it is quite possibly her

What is your fascination with c**k? You seem to be obsessed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't care about the male female thing, she's a thug who's got done for assault and has guns tattooed on herself.

Maybe before committing crimes she should have got the gender change cert if she was that concerned about which prison she ended up at?

They didn't put her in gen pop either.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I don't care about the male female thing, she's a thug who's got done for assault and has guns tattooed on herself.

Maybe before committing crimes she should have got the gender change cert if she was that concerned about which prison she ended up at?

They didn't put her in gen pop either."

because that's a valid reason to get a gender reassignment surgery done

people fight long and hard to convince Dr's and psychologists that they are really in the wrong body....if it was as easy as saying they didnt want to go in the wring type of prison i'm sure everyone wanting the surgery would say that.

and not putting her in general population was part of the issue. no one should be segregated for that long simply because they cannot be located in the general population for their own safety.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I was in prison I'd rather be on my own 23 hours of the day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her". "

He is not female? What part of that dont you understand? And he assaulted a person has that gone unmissed

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Wow!

All this fuss over poor Tara!

What about the victim of the attack?

What is it with people?

Here are the facts: This thug attacked someone doing enough harm that they were charged with assault, they pleaded guilty (to get a reduced sentence) and a judge still gave them 12 weeks jail.

Perhaps read the thread before jumping to stupid conclusions.

Tara is a female, refer to her as "her".

He is not female? What part of that dont you understand? And he assaulted a person has that gone unmissed"

Why is it so important to you personally that she isn't classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her...

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

Because if she were classed as male then she would have been exposed to extreme danger in an all-male prison

Your turn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is one of those stories that I honestly really dont care about at all.

More important things happening in the World than deciding which prison is best suited for a criminal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her...

Because if she were classed as male then she would have been exposed to extreme danger in an all-male prison

Your turn"

So on a personal level that would have effected you how?

Extreme danger? You're sounding very Mail on Sunday.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be honest i couldnt care less what prison he went to,i think the fact is if a woman would have assaulted tara it would be the same response,poor tara

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her...

Because if she were classed as male then she would have been exposed to extreme danger in an all-male prison

Your turn

So on a personal level that would have effected you how?

Extreme danger? You're sounding very Mail on Sunday."

You didn't answer the question

Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female

It would not affect me on a personal level if you were in extreme danger. I still wouldn't want to see you in that situation and will do what I can to prevent that from happening

I don't know what the Mail says. I do not subscribe to any newspapers. However, the very high chance of her getting assaulted or raped is extreme danger. Don't you think so?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female

It would not affect me on a personal level if you were in extreme danger. I still wouldn't want to see you in that situation and will do what I can to prevent that from happening

I don't know what the Mail says. I do not subscribe to any newspapers. However, the very high chance of her getting assaulted or raped is extreme danger. Don't you think so?"

I've never said she's not a woman. You need to calm down. Your arguments turn into attacks rather than reasoned debate. Then you seem to sensationalize her prison stay. Not only can she clearly look after herself, but the prison service had already put safe guards in place. Now she will be the only woman in prison with a penis. Should those women be scared of rape? Of course not. This is real life not Hollywood. Chill out.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"If I was in prison I'd rather be on my own 23 hours of the day."

of course you would

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All they had to do was not visit the pub they were arrested in carrying out the assault and would have saved this amount of money over 2 or 3 weekends

Wow, how much do you drink?!

Martini Processco; a bottle is normally £20; ok, ok, 7 visits to the pub

But the real question is: are you taking me out for a drink?

Would love to, just not sure I could afford to!

(Can't help feeling I'm not paying full attention to the actual thread...?)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No sympathy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No sympathy!"

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female

It would not affect me on a personal level if you were in extreme danger. I still wouldn't want to see you in that situation and will do what I can to prevent that from happening

I don't know what the Mail says. I do not subscribe to any newspapers. However, the very high chance of her getting assaulted or raped is extreme danger. Don't you think so?

I am quite calm about all of this. My question was to Rossi who is adamant that Tara is not a woman. But instead, you answered on Rossi's behalf

Yes, I think we all know that she has a penis. And that must be somewhat disturbing to the other female inmates. But thinking about this calmly, what are the chances of Tara raping another woman with hundreds of other women around who would jump to the defence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think i'll have a beer

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By *b coupleCouple
over a year ago

southampton

"No sympathy!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your assertion that rape would not be stopped by other male inmates is abhorrent.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?"

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hope she will learn to behave like a decent human being in the future. Because now there is no next time for her. 150,000+ people signed the petition this time; next time, if there is a next time, I doubt if anyone will bother

I don't know if any potential rape would have been stopped or not by other male inmates had she ended up in a male prison. My assertion is that a woman does not belong in a male prison as it puts her at greater risk

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By *bi_scotlandTV/TS
over a year ago

Glasgow

I have no sympathy whatsoever. Just another violent thug.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Making you explain yourself and your views on men is no waste of any thread. A learning experience all round. Good night, and good luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have no sympathy whatsoever. Just another violent thug."

Finally the voice of reason

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

But Josie, wasn't it you who said "A female prison is not for male prisoners no matter how short a skirt or how much makeup they put on. If that were the criteria, then a fair number of male prisoners would too wish to serve their sentences in female prisons. That would put female prisoners at risk and that is unacceptable"

There never was a risk, nor will there be one, since a legally male prisoner will not be allowed into general population in a women's prison. Just like she wasn't allowed in general population in the male one.

Her sentence will still be served, in effect, in solitary, but it will only be for a month or so.

She has failed to get released which was her true aim, and for a few weeks, the streets of Bath will be slightly safer.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?"

You truly are astonishingly ignorant.

Gender is more than clothes and genitals.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?"

I have tried to explain to you that things are not as black and white as you think they are. Even Clem understands and he is a tough nut to crack

I am just happy that there are a lot of people on this forum and 150,000+ who signed the petition who do not think like you and now Tara will be as safe as any other woman can be in a women's prison

Yes, she is violent; I don't think anyone disputes that; that is the reason she was found guilty of an assault

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"You truly are astonishingly ignorant.

Gender is more than clothes and genitals. "

Which is why we have a legal definition, in addition to our own personal, human definition.

I am happy to call her a woman, and treat her like a woman, but I can't overwrite the law.

Nor do I see why I should feel sorry for a violent criminal who had 10 months to complete the necessary paperwork.

She was always going to have a custodial sentence.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"But Josie, wasn't it you who said "A female prison is not for male prisoners no matter how short a skirt or how much makeup they put on. If that were the criteria, then a fair number of male prisoners would too wish to serve their sentences in female prisons. That would put female prisoners at risk and that is unacceptable"

Her sentence will still be served, in effect, in solitary, but it will only be for a month or so.

She has failed to get released which was her true aim, and for a few weeks, the streets of Bath will be slightly safer."

Yes, I did DerbyDalesCpl and I was wrong in taking that very narrow view

I think you will agree that this is an unusual case which has a lot of us re-evaluating our views on gender

Tara is violent and she needs to control this. Her victims are the ones who suffered and now society has taken her liberty away from her. I personally think that she got away with this rather lightly but atleast she is locked up

I, personally, would never put my name down for releasing her or any other violent offender

Also, she should be grateful that despite her laziness (or was it arrogance?) in not completing her application for the gender documents, many people campaigned to keep her in a relatively safer environment

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"Why is she facing 12 weeks imprisonment? "

Not that it's really relevant but she head butted a bouncer. This isn't her first offence either.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"You truly are astonishingly ignorant.

Gender is more than clothes and genitals.

Which is why we have a legal definition, in addition to our own personal, human definition.

I am happy to call her a woman, and treat her like a woman, but I can't overwrite the law.

Nor do I see why I should feel sorry for a violent criminal who had 10 months to complete the necessary paperwork.

She was always going to have a custodial sentence."

And again I will state that no one is saying she shouldn't have got a custodial sentence. Why is it so hard for some people to understand that bit? No one is asking you to feel sorry for her and this debate is actually wider than just one person.

I'm not aware of this paperwork you refer to and it isn't mentioned in the report I just read on the independent's website.

The NOMS guidance has been widely quoted in the press and it states that if a person's gender reassignment is sufficiently far along then they can review each case and if necessary they will place a person in their identified gender's estate rather than their current legal one. Thay is all that this discussion has been about.

She has lived all of her adult life identifying as a woman. So she hasn't had the full gender reassignment surgery yet but to put her in a male estate would, in my view and it seems the view of the prison service, be the wrong decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?

I have tried to explain to you that things are not as black and white as you think they are. Even Clem understands and he is a tough nut to crack

I am just happy that there are a lot of people on this forum and 150,000+ who signed the petition who do not think like you and now Tara will be as safe as any other woman can be in a women's prison

Yes, she is violent; I don't think anyone disputes that; that is the reason she was found guilty of an assault"

Genes,chromozones,penis, and you call him she? If i walked into a womens toilets with a dress on does that make me a woman?,this debate will go on and on and im goimg to bed,good night and have a good weekend...ross

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?

I have tried to explain to you that things are not as black and white as you think they are. Even Clem understands and he is a tough nut to crack

I am just happy that there are a lot of people on this forum and 150,000+ who signed the petition who do not think like you and now Tara will be as safe as any other woman can be in a women's prison

Yes, she is violent; I don't think anyone disputes that; that is the reason she was found guilty of an assault

No because you do not feel that you are a woman, you do not live as a female, you do not wish to have any other female trait than wearing a dress and going in a female toilet. Your argument is childish and (I'll say it again) ignorant.

Yes Tara has not had her genitals changed from male to female yet it is clear from the pictures of her she has had extensive surgery to make her look like a woman. She has lived her whole adult life as a woman. Her mind set, her body image, her being is as a woman it's just the packaging that isn't.

I fear you will never get this but I have to stay up tobwait for a phone call so for now will continue to counter your arguments.

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By *now white1000Woman
over a year ago

York

"You wrote

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?"

OK, time to but in and let you know where you stand legally.

Tara has done the deedpol name change and IS female in LAW, she is legally recognised in Law as female as defined by the equality act 2010 and Human rights act 1998. However, from a custodial legal view, she is recognised as male due to having no Gender Recognition Certificate, something costs £150 just for the application, plus other costs in getting the relevant documents to send off with it and a whole process that is hugely humiliating to go through.

There are approximately 3000 people in the uk who have had all the required surgery, yet only 300 Gender Recognition Certificates have been issued......

Back to legality then, when someone has done their deedpol name change they are covered by the equality act 2010 and human rights act 1998, and to constantly and deliberately mis-gender a person (i.e. calling Tara 'he' 'Man' or even 'it') even after being told that she is female, is breaking that persons human right, it's also in breach of her equality.

If Tara was able to read this thread, she would have a strong case against you under Hate crime laws.

I do not for one minute condone what Tara has done and fully agree that she must serve her time (in a female prison) and i think she should also have been ordered to complete an anger management course on release, but lets not continue to mis-gender Tara, she is female.

Yes she may still have a cock, but rest assured, the hormones she will be taking, and the testosterone blockers will make that cock pretty much useless.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you cant do the time , dont do the crime.... Baws or not!!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"Also, she should be grateful that despite her laziness (or was it arrogance?) in not completing her application for the gender documents, many people campaigned to keep her in a relatively safer environment"

Sadly I do think it was arrogance, and a vain hope that she would avoid a custodial sentence. The only disquieting thing for me was the mental health aspect of forcing her into a men's prison, having lived as a woman for so long, but I suspect that was less conspiracy and more cock-up. She had months to prepare, but you could say the same about the prison service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wish life was so mutch simpler...good night x

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"You wrote

"Why are you (or is it only Rossi) so adamant that she is not classed as female"

Who were you asking if not me?

We are wasting this thread but that was in response to your:

"Why is it so important to you personally that she is classed as female? It is not as if you are ever going to get to meet her..."

But OK, it wasn't you who thinks this was which is great for Tara

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?

I have tried to explain to you that things are not as black and white as you think they are. Even Clem understands and he is a tough nut to crack

I am just happy that there are a lot of people on this forum and 150,000+ who signed the petition who do not think like you and now Tara will be as safe as any other woman can be in a women's prison

Yes, she is violent; I don't think anyone disputes that; that is the reason she was found guilty of an assault

Genes include chromosomes and that is far more complex than just the basic xx and xy. Please look it up if you want to as that discussion can easily take up a thread by itself to explain

So we are back to what is between her legs. My view now is; does it really matter? Unless one is about to take her to bed, it affects none of us

The fact that she has lived as a woman and interacted as a woman for so many years, is what should matter

Your parallel of you putting on a dress and entering women's restrooms is not a good one because:

1) you would not have been diagnosed with gender issues

2) nobody is likely to be bothered; however, you may be quite embarrassed

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"You wrote

Hes not a woman he has a penis,what part of that can rational people not relate too? Just because he wears womens clothes doent make him a woman,if a woman wore a mans suit does that make her a man?

OK, time to but in and let you know where you stand legally.

There are approximately 3000 people in the uk who have had all the required surgery, yet only 300 Gender Recognition Certificates have been issued......

If Tara was able to read this thread, she would have a strong case against you under Hate crime laws.

Actually that's not really right. A hate crime is a normal crime that already exists but had been motivated by hatred, normally racial or religious but would also cover gender hate to. The thing is with hate crimes what they are doing had to be a crime already, like assault for example.

What you probably mean is hate speech. This is a much harder area and I don't think it would cover anything he has said. Hate speech is Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation or any communication which is threatening or abusive, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone.

It does not cover a person's beliefs or them expressing those beliefs, unless the person expressing those beliefs is expressing then deliberately to cause offence.

You can't make what people think illegal however wrong they may be.

If believing that a person born a man remains a man regardless of anything else that may have happened may he incorrect but it's a commonly held believe. If we are going to start prosecuting people for believing that then probably more than half the population would have to be prosecuted, including most of my friends and family including my parents.

Yes she may still have a cock, but rest assured, the hormones she will be taking, and the testosterone blockers will make that cock pretty much useless."

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"If you cant do the time , dont do the crime.... Baws or not!!

The punishment for the crime is the time but it is only the time. The person is sentenced to a term in prison. They are not sentenced to a term of sexual harassment as part of their punishment. If it seems likely that this would be more likely to happen in a male prison than a female prison then the prison service has a duty of care to the person and should take whatever pesticide action it can to stop this. In this case placing the person in a female prison would seem to be the correct, legal, practical and pragmatic thing to do.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"If you cant do the time , dont do the crime.... Baws or not!!

Pesticide grrr particle.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"If you cant do the time , dont do the crime.... Baws or not!!

Pesticide grrr particle."

Bloody auto correct. I bloody mean practical.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Having a penis doesn't make you a man.

Nor does being a dickhead.

Much like having a vagina doesn't make you a woman...

Nor does being a cunt.

I think if you check you will find that the legal definition of a persons sex is governed by EXTERNAL GENITALIA, a male is male if they have a penis. A female is female if they have a vagina.

If you have issues with that take it up with your MP and demand that the law be changed. Dont shout at me because I believe that EVERYONE should be EQUAL under the law and that a convicted violent criminal thug should not be able to claim special treatment because they dont want to go to prison!

Remember that they were demanding being placed on house arrest with a tag rather than being imprisoned!

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Having a penis doesn't make you a man.

Nor does being a dickhead.

Much like having a vagina doesn't make you a woman...

Nor does being a cunt.

I think if you check you will find that the legal definition of a persons sex is governed by EXTERNAL GENITALIA, a male is male if they have a penis. A female is female if they have a vagina.

If you have issues with that take it up with your MP and demand that the law be changed. "

Yes.

And no.

Is life ever really that simple?

Tara's sex is male, assigned at birth by her genitalia. However her gender is a woman and, she would argue, that this has also been from birth, but certainly from the age of legal responsibility.

Had she applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate, her sex would be reassigned to match her gender, ie female. She can still have a penis at this point.

But she didn't apply for one, so she is still legally male, even though she is a woman. (It's called transgender)

Can I bang my head against the wall now until I fall asleep?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Yes.

And no.

Is life ever really that simple?

Tara's sex is male, assigned at birth by her genitalia. However her gender is a woman and, she would argue, that this has also been from birth, but certainly from the age of legal responsibility.

Had she applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate, her sex would be reassigned to match her gender, ie female. She can still have a penis at this point.

But she didn't apply for one, so she is still legally male, even though she is a woman. (It's called transgender)

Can I bang my head against the wall now until I fall asleep?"

As you say, if HE had applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate HIS sex would have been reassigned.

But HE didn't and no matter how much you and others claim HE is female HE IS NOT FEMALE IN LAW and having been convicted and sentenced to 3 months in prison HE should go to a MALE prison because that is what HE IS!

I will try one more time to get through to all you Tara backers.

The LAW MUST APPLY EQUALLY TO ALL, because if it does not then it is not law it is tyranny.

Not my idea, but that of Aristotle and reiterated and rehashed over centuries by many. All must be governed by the same law. That a person could but failed to do what was legally required to change their circumstances can never be allowed as a defence or even as mitigation.

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

Yes.

And no.

Is life ever really that simple?

Tara's sex is male, assigned at birth by her genitalia. However her gender is a woman and, she would argue, that this has also been from birth, but certainly from the age of legal responsibility.

Had she applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate, her sex would be reassigned to match her gender, ie female. She can still have a penis at this point.

But she didn't apply for one, so she is still legally male, even though she is a woman. (It's called transgender)

Can I bang my head against the wall now until I fall asleep?

As you say, if HE had applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate HIS sex would have been reassigned.

I will try one more time to get through to all you Tara backers.

The LAW MUST APPLY EQUALLY TO ALL, because if it does not then it is not law it is tyranny.

What did Aristotle say about common-sense and compassion. And even if he didn't, you can show some

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Yes.

And no.

Is life ever really that simple?

Tara's sex is male, assigned at birth by her genitalia. However her gender is a woman and, she would argue, that this has also been from birth, but certainly from the age of legal responsibility.

Had she applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate, her sex would be reassigned to match her gender, ie female. She can still have a penis at this point.

But she didn't apply for one, so she is still legally male, even though she is a woman. (It's called transgender)

Can I bang my head against the wall now until I fall asleep?

As you say, if HE had applied for a Gender Recognition Certificate HIS sex would have been reassigned.

I will try one more time to get through to all you Tara backers.

The LAW MUST APPLY EQUALLY TO ALL, because if it does not then it is not law it is tyranny.

The law has been applied equally and SHE was found guilty of a crime SHE committed. HER appeal to reduce HER sentence was lost.

What is being discussed here is the application of a prison service policy which itself has written into it a caveat which deals with this very situation.

If a person's gender reassignment is sufficiently advanced enough but the have not got a gender reassignment certificate then the prison service can place that person in the estate of their assumed gender. That is what has happened here.

As snow white explained here and on a separate Thread, Tara has legally changed her name, her appearance and has lived her entire adult life as a female. In law she is a female however her birth certificate still states she is a male as she has not under gone the full gender reassignment surgery. She never has to if she doesn't want to either. She has cobvincedpanels if numerous experts that she is female but it appears this is a step to far for some swingers.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Having a penis doesn't make you a man.

Nor does being a dickhead.

Much like having a vagina doesn't make you a woman...

Nor does being a cunt.

I think if you check you will find that the legal definition of a persons sex is governed by EXTERNAL GENITALIA, a male is male if they have a penis. A female is female if they have a vagina.

Remember that they were demanding being placed on house arrest with a tag rather than being imprisoned!"

Sex and gender are not the same thing. Tara is going to prison,that was never in any doubt. Yes she appealed her sentence as is the right of anyone convicted in England. She lost.

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By *trawberry-popWoman
over a year ago

South East Midlands NOT

Farkin ell.

I'm referring back to my dickhead and cunt comment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hoping Tara is isolated from the female population for her and their safety.

Glad they are no longer forcing maleness onto her and are respecting her as a woman.

I don't condone what she did to end up in jail. She clearly deserves to be.

However, I imagine she has had a lot of grief from people, possibly the barman she head butted too.

Reading some of the posts here, it seems many won't accept her for what she is and the way she wishes to be. As a consequence, life for her may well have been a constant battle.

It's a shame she isn't mature enough to rise above it rather than resort to violence.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Hoping Tara is isolated from the female population for her and their safety.

Glad they are no longer forcing maleness onto her and are respecting her as a woman.

I don't condone what she did to end up in jail. She clearly deserves to be.

However, I imagine she has had a lot of grief from people, possibly the barman she head butted too.

Reading some of the posts here, it seems many won't accept her for what she is and the way she wishes to be. As a consequence, life for her may well have been a constant battle.

It's a shame she isn't mature enough to rise above it rather than resort to violence. "

She won't be isolated she will be in the main stream population female prisons are a some what forgiving environment and a lot less harsh than a man's prison...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?

She has chosen to live her life as a woman and has done for years. She has had surgery to become a woman.

She probably (like many other transgender people) feels that she was born in the wrong body.

Surprised such ignorance exists on an 'open minded' site.

Oh wait. No i'm not.

Incredible that supposed adults are so ignorant.

I'm surprised daily by what I read on here. Her right to be recognised as a woman is set in law. To insist she is a he breaks that law because it would offend her to hear it. "

Wrong, the law recognises him as man.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?"

Because the prison service has decided it's right there are a few "males" in women prisons today it's to protect that individual.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your assertion that rape would not be stopped by other male inmates is abhorrent."

One of the most messed up things I've read on here. Truly sickening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?

Because the prison service has decided it's right there are a few "males" in women prisons today it's to protect that individual. "

Well that is completely farcical (IMO).

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

The petition and whole case wasn't built on honesty though was it?

Cries of but 'she's being raped' is a woman but 'forgot to change her passport' is how this was portrayed to the public and it's how it got the attention of so many that signed the petition

In the first thread it plays out very clearly there.

Truths leak through and it becomes clear actually yes hasn't has surgery, has a criminal history, family are trying to get her out on tag.

I have the same response to any criminal. Irrelevant of Sex or gender. Neither a male or female prison is safe and she won't be in general population in either.

The way this was sold to the public. .... her family used her gender to try and get her out of prison time.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?

Because the prison service has decided it's right there are a few "males" in women prisons today it's to protect that individual.

Well that is completely farcical (IMO). "

What protecting an individual from harm is farcical? The prison service have a duty of care to protect prisoners while in their care and they decided that Tara will complete her sentence in a women's prison, I for one wouldn't want to be in her situation and in a male prison. Male prisons are a lot less forgiving than a woman prison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just thought

All those women that haven't had a shag for years and a penis gets in the prison

Looks to me like a back Door way to get a shag

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Your assertion that rape would not be stopped by other male inmates is abhorrent.

One of the most messed up things I've read on here. Truly sickening. "

Did you actually read this or did you read someone's 'analysis' of this based on people asserting that a woman in an all-male prison is in greater danger of being raped?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?

Because the prison service has decided it's right there are a few "males" in women prisons today it's to protect that individual.

Well that is completely farcical (IMO).

But 'she ' is a man. She has a penis. She has a penis in a woman's prison. How can that ever be right?

Because the prison service has decided it's right there are a few "males" in women prisons today it's to protect that individual.

Well that is completely farcical (IMO).

Is that a fact or an opinion? And what about the harm she could do to other female inmates? Seeing as she has, y'know, a very violent past judging from what I've read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would not be fair on women prisoners to put HIM in a womens prison.

He did the crime now do the time

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By *osieWoman
over a year ago

Wembley

"Hoping Tara is isolated from the female population for her and their safety.

Glad they are no longer forcing maleness onto her and are respecting her as a woman.

I don't condone what she did to end up in jail. She clearly deserves to be.

However, I imagine she has had a lot of grief from people, possibly the barman she head butted too.

Reading some of the posts here, it seems many won't accept her for what she is and the way she wishes to be. As a consequence, life for her may well have been a constant battle.

It's a shame she isn't mature enough to rise above it rather than resort to violence. "

Dear Rachael

Next time she receives "a lot of grief" from anyone, she should think of using the law to her advantage to deal with it rather than to resort to violence

Whilst I will defend her gender and her right to be in a women's prison, I will not ever defend her propensity to violence. Frankly, she scares me and I am not easily scared

The barman may be a complete idiot but being a complete idiot is no justification to knock his teeth out (if indeed that is what happened)

Tara appears to be a female version of a thug. Nothing to do with male or female behaviour. Just to do with bad behaviour

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"Why are you people calling tara her/she? Tara is a man HE has a penis,or have i missed something in human biology?"

If you had an accident and your cock was cut off would that make you a woman???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Women commit more violent offences as a % of crimes it is very rare for women to go to prison and when they do it's usually for a serious offence involving great violence

I think she should have been put in prison

I don't think Someone with a penis should be in a women's prison

Also Tara had 8 previous convictions

I personally think it's disgusting that she can commit 8 offences I including one for battery and only be imprisoned on her 9th offence

When you look at the wider picture. She has committed 9 crimes that is 9 people have had their life turned upside down by this

I think the sentence of 12 weeks is not enough and I am sure her victims will feel the same

Anyway now Tara can enjoy showers with the women and I fully believe that Tara will be at more risk than in a mans prison

It's a fact of life very few women like tg and very few women will enjoy sharing their facilities with one . Couple this with murderers arsonist etc etc and it makes for a recipe for disaster and this won't be the last we hear of this

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

"I will try one more time to get through to all you Tara backers"

{snorts}

If you have me down as a Tara backer, I'm afraid you must have misread every single one of my posts.

I, at least, have been consistent about my feelings from the start.

(Ps, if you want the law, try The Gender Recognition Act 2004

)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do hope Tara decides in prison that she does not continue her criminal lifestyle and fully understands the misery that her 9 crimes have caused to 9 people and their families

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For all of her protestations about living as and looking like a woman, her violent nature would suggest she reacts to situations like a man, or that she is reacting badly to the cocktail of meds she most probably has to take.

Maybe we have thrown ourselves to quickly into HRT for these people without really understanding what is going on. I'm sure it's not the last we'll see of her. Or this rather prickly subject...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the most important thing here is to just not commit crimes .

We all have a right to live free from crime and the fear of crime. If you commit crimes then you go to prison

I looked very long and hard at this and my opinion was that Tara was using the transgender get out of jail free card

Men lose their homes, wives , children, jobs and their family as well a their liberty .

i really don't see why it should be any different for her after all she has proved she has no problem assaulting Men and committing crimes

Youhave severe learning difficulties or lack of mental capacity to not understand that in the uk if you commit crimes you go to prison

It would be interesting to see the pregnancy rate at the women's jail Tara is going

It will also be interested to see how the feminazis react to Tara being in a women's prison

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