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Do you think this is true..?

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum...."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Love noam chomsky.

Yeah it's true. And it's why politicians dodge certain questions, so as not to derail what they wanna focus on.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly, yes.

I think this is most obvious in American politics - where the difference between the Democrats and Republicans hinges less on policies and more on rhetoric.

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient? "

Why wouldn't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could you repeat the question please ?

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you? "

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sadly, yes.

I think this is most obvious in American politics - where the difference between the Democrats and Republicans hinges less on policies and more on rhetoric.

-Courtney"

So true...to think that the discourse has been narrowed so much that Obama is seen as some hard-left socialist by opponents is just bizarre.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take the London protests as a good example.

There actually were valid protests against the government going on at this time, they never made the news despite being held right outside the houses of parliament, all the media focused on was the looting and the fire.

Many discussions were made about the 'protests', but they only focused on the looting and rioting.

Nobody cared to discuss anything of importance, it was all laying blame and stereotyping without discussing anything deeper than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you?

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news? "

I was joking with you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not a thread I can comment on after 3 glasses of wine.

*scuttles off to the kiss, fuck, avoid section

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

Wow shocked and pleased that so many of you know where this quote comes from!

I've been thinking about this a lot since I first saw it, re how lively debates about issues are but at the same time how much things get shut down. Interesting how the debates about the issues Jeremy Corbyn brought up were seen as so challenging and threatening by many.

Also about discussions about sex. This place is sometimes amazing for the honesty people display in talking about sexual issues. I don't think it would be allowed in many areas of the mainstream media! Or if it was, it would be quickly ridiculed and shut down...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

only if the participants are too shallow to question !!

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you?

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news?

I was joking with you"

I know but should I have watched the news?

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

...and how easy it is to distract the general populace by shocking, titilation stories whilst passing oppressive laws which really did need a proper discussion...

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's one method that helps this.

But greater limitations on essential needs and keeping people in constant fear are simple methodologies used to keep people suppressed and easily controllable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow shocked and pleased that so many of you know where this quote comes from!

I've been thinking about this a lot since I first saw it, re how lively debates about issues are but at the same time how much things get shut down. Interesting how the debates about the issues Jeremy Corbyn brought up were seen as so challenging and threatening by many.

Also about discussions about sex. This place is sometimes amazing for the honesty people display in talking about sexual issues. I don't think it would be allowed in many areas of the mainstream media! Or if it was, it would be quickly ridiculed and shut down..."

I can't comment of UK politics (I'm not well enough informed), but regarding sex, yes, the way that acceptable opinion on sex is restricted in society is responsible for a lot of obedient behavior.

However, the same could be said on this site. Look at any bareback or cheating thread. It would be much better if we could all voice opinions on these things without resorting to ridicule (such that you could oppose something openly without being so intolerant as to shut down debate). But even we aren't open-minded enough to broaden acceptable debate

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you?

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news?

I was joking with you

I know but should I have watched the news? "

I don't think it relates directly to any specific thing in the news. I could be wrong. I'm just discussing it generally as I am aware of the quote and the argument behind it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're taking our jobs......and benefits!

Easily outraged of Edinburgh

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you?

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news? "

The context is society, not current affairs.

Passive and obedient means that people will accept the changes imposed on them, even when they don't like them or even agree with them.

Marching in protest is now derided and seen as people being trouble makers in a way that was not the case 30 years ago.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient? "

So that they don't change the status quo.

So that you can continue doing whatever you do and nobody will try to stop you because anyone who tries looks stupid, insane or like they aren't living in reality.

Go to war, you're a hero. Opinion on that didn't change until the vietnam war when people saw what really went on because the media showed it, not popular media mind you but other media, the ones who wanted war to end.

This is why they want to censor the internet, so that opinions outside of their own will be deleted or the people who write them will be classed, and arrested, as terrorists.

Try and find actual evidence of what this government said since it's been in power, that's gone btw. Bet nobody noticed.

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By *D-1Man
over a year ago

London


"It's one method that helps this.

But greater limitations on essential needs and keeping people in constant fear are simple methodologies used to keep people suppressed and easily controllable. "

What you're talking about is better known as "religion" .... Which in my opinion is a tool to control the masses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

"

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?"

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

"

Whose translation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think though that the majority of people WANT to accept the status quo. They don't want to be outraged or revolting. They're happy for the debate to be maintained within a set of parameters because basically, most people want order and for them and other people to fall into line. And I am exactly the same so would not blame them for it.

Whatever you think people are being fed by the media, they're eating it because, on the whole, they want to.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Whose translation?"

What do you mean?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

"

Yass! 10 points.

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Whose translation?

What do you mean?"

I'm just wondering whether he said it in English originally or whether it was translated from German.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?"

It was around before then, but that maybe represents the first application on an industrial scale.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

[Removed by poster at 24/10/15 00:00:44]

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?"

Edward Bernays arguably invented propaganda - although he called it public relations:

"He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.

He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Here's a quote for you. Without using Google, does anyone know who said it?

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same way in any country."

Goering?

Bingo.

Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Whose translation?

What do you mean?

I'm just wondering whether he said it in English originally or whether it was translated from German. "

Auf Deutsch

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"Why would you want to keep people passive and obedient?

Why wouldn't you?

I have no idea of the context... should I have watched the news?

I was joking with you

I know but should I have watched the news?

I don't think it relates directly to any specific thing in the news. I could be wrong. I'm just discussing it generally as I am aware of the quote and the argument behind it. "

Keep going... I know shit all about politics so I rarely contribute to such topics so I feel like fraud being in here.

Still I know now so every day is a school day!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?"

Propaganda has been around much much longer.

One of the most famous examples of propaganda during wartime was the US use of it to instigate and justify the Spanish-American war. Interesting topic if you ever have a free afternoon

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Edward Bernays arguably invented propaganda - although he called it public relations:

"He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.

He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays"

Here's a good one from Bernays:

"In the 1920s, working for the American Tobacco Company, he sent a group of young models to march in the New York City parade.

He then told the press that a group of women's rights marchers would light "Torches of Freedom".

On his signal, the models lit Lucky Strike cigarettes in front of the eager photographers.

The New York Times (1 April 1929) printed: "Group of Girls Puff at Cigarettes as a Gesture of 'Freedom'".

This helped to break the taboo against women smoking in public. During this decade, he also handled publicity for the NAACP."

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?"

Propaganda is merely information, albeit now it's seen as politically biased information. That has been around for a very long time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Edward Bernays arguably invented propaganda - although he called it public relations:

"He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.

He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays"

Watch the first episode of Adam Curtis' "Century of the self" and get ready to have your mind blown

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think though that the majority of people WANT to accept the status quo. They don't want to be outraged or revolting. They're happy for the debate to be maintained within a set of parameters because basically, most people want order and for them and other people to fall into line. And I am exactly the same so would not blame them for it.

Whatever you think people are being fed by the media, they're eating it because, on the whole, they want to. "

I like to think it's more they find it hard to accept that really sick things happen on this planet because they wouldn't do those sick things themselves.

But yeah it does seem a lot of people aren't up for accepting reality and like to shift blame onto the nearest thing that suits them and makes them feel superior while doing so.

I don't think you're the same, like you wouldn't believe that people have 10 kids to stay on benefits and your taxes all go on that family, unlike many people would honestly think that and not realise what the government actually spends most of our money on.

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By *ntimatediscretionMan
over a year ago

eaglescliffe

Does Noam Chomsky Matter Anymore By Douglas Herman offers a differing view....

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Propaganda has been around much much longer.

One of the most famous examples of propaganda during wartime was the US use of it to instigate and justify the Spanish-American war. Interesting topic if you ever have a free afternoon "

If you get a chance go to the People's History Museum in Manchester. There is an advertising board for the Suffragettes there that shows a goose talking to a flock. Below the image it says, Every proper Goose needs her proper gander.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think though that the majority of people WANT to accept the status quo. They don't want to be outraged or revolting. They're happy for the debate to be maintained within a set of parameters because basically, most people want order and for them and other people to fall into line. And I am exactly the same so would not blame them for it.

Whatever you think people are being fed by the media, they're eating it because, on the whole, they want to.

I like to think it's more they find it hard to accept that really sick things happen on this planet because they wouldn't do those sick things themselves.

But yeah it does seem a lot of people aren't up for accepting reality and like to shift blame onto the nearest thing that suits them and makes them feel superior while doing so.

I don't think you're the same, like you wouldn't believe that people have 10 kids to stay on benefits and your taxes all go on that family, unlike many people would honestly think that and not realise what the government actually spends most of our money on."

I'm starting from an advantage there though because I know an awful lot about what the government actually spends most of our money on because it's what I do for a living. And of course it's not families of 10 on benefits. However that doesn't mean that families of 10 on benefits don't exist (and other equivalent examples) and that people can't feel a little frustrated at the state propping up the feckless decisions of others; but yes - they should have a sense of perspective about it.

I don't think it's because people are stupid though - I think given a choice most choose not to rock the boat because they don't want to live their lives fighting the system. Is that "I'm alright jack" or is that basic human nature?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Propaganda has been around much much longer.

One of the most famous examples of propaganda during wartime was the US use of it to instigate and justify the Spanish-American war. Interesting topic if you ever have a free afternoon

If you get a chance go to the People's History Museum in Manchester. There is an advertising board for the Suffragettes there that shows a goose talking to a flock. Below the image it says, Every proper Goose needs her proper gander.

"

Great museum!

-Courtney

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....""

I love Noam Chomsky too... and this approach certainly describes a lot of what we see going on around us... but in recent years I've become growingly aware of something above and beyond this... lets call it "paradigm bubbles". These are ways of thinking about life that strike people as so complete and so final that they can't possibly imagine anything existing beyond it. One such paradigm bubble is that shown by science in any given era. But we also have cultural and political paradigms which prevent us from seeing what could be over the hill.

The trick is to escape the current paradigm you're trapped in. But only a handful of thinkers from each discipline manage to do this each century. Everyone argues till they're blue that they're right and then a new voice suddenly erupts which shows quite clearly how they're wrong and the debate suddenly moves over into new territory. This, to me, gives a better explanation for this phenomenon of "a spectrum of acceptable opinion". But Chomsky rightly observes how current paradigms of thought are used by those in power to try and keep that paradigm bubble going for as long as possible.

Sorry if that's a bit abstract... welcome to the inside of my head lol

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"

I don't think it's because people are stupid though - I think given a choice most choose not to rock the boat because they don't want to live their lives fighting the system. Is that "I'm alright jack" or is that basic human nature? "

I think there is an element of just living ones life is actually easier if you ignore the "noise" of news and politics.

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

On the subject of propaganda, recently saw these anti Sufragette postcards, if anyone's interested. Seems laughable now but at the time, many people were opposed to women getting the vote...

http://historyoffeminism.com/anti-suffragette-postcards-posters-cartoons/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brilliant topic, didn't realise I could learn here but I did, well done and Thanks.

just finished reading The Establishment by Owen Jones and kinda feel my eyes are being opened

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"On the subject of propaganda, recently saw these anti Sufragette postcards, if anyone's interested. Seems laughable now but at the time, many people were opposed to women getting the vote...

http://historyoffeminism.com/anti-suffragette-postcards-posters-cartoons/"

These views continue on into today; they're just dressed up slightly differently.

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

I also like this quote from the late Tony Benn;

"The way a government treats refugees is very instructive because it shows you how they would treat the rest of us if they thought they could get away with it. "

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry


"On the subject of propaganda, recently saw these anti Sufragette postcards, if anyone's interested. Seems laughable now but at the time, many people were opposed to women getting the vote...

http://historyoffeminism.com/anti-suffragette-postcards-posters-cartoons/

These views continue on into today; they're just dressed up slightly differently.

"

I agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think though that the majority of people WANT to accept the status quo. They don't want to be outraged or revolting. They're happy for the debate to be maintained within a set of parameters because basically, most people want order and for them and other people to fall into line. And I am exactly the same so would not blame them for it.

Whatever you think people are being fed by the media, they're eating it because, on the whole, they want to.

I like to think it's more they find it hard to accept that really sick things happen on this planet because they wouldn't do those sick things themselves.

But yeah it does seem a lot of people aren't up for accepting reality and like to shift blame onto the nearest thing that suits them and makes them feel superior while doing so.

I don't think you're the same, like you wouldn't believe that people have 10 kids to stay on benefits and your taxes all go on that family, unlike many people would honestly think that and not realise what the government actually spends most of our money on.

I'm starting from an advantage there though because I know an awful lot about what the government actually spends most of our money on because it's what I do for a living. And of course it's not families of 10 on benefits. However that doesn't mean that families of 10 on benefits don't exist (and other equivalent examples) and that people can't feel a little frustrated at the state propping up the feckless decisions of others; but yes - they should have a sense of perspective about it.

I don't think it's because people are stupid though - I think given a choice most choose not to rock the boat because they don't want to live their lives fighting the system. Is that "I'm alright jack" or is that basic human nature? "

You know more than me definitely, but anyone can find out if there's an element of truth to certain things, if they have the internet and a bit of souse to work out what is outright lies.

I'm alright probably won't wanna change things, i get you now yeah. They might not like certain truths that are hidden from them though and would maybe do something about those things, possibly support other things less as well.

I meant people are happy to only discuss one family on benefits (i think she had more than 10 kids actually) and blame their life dissatisfaction on her because they really think loads of families have 10 kids and are getting massive homes built especially for them etc.

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

This is good on the concept of 'moral panic'

"Marxism sees the media in society as acting in the interests of the bourgeoisie by promoting the ideals and values which best serve them. The media is the single and most important part of the Ideological State Apparatus, (ISA), and is used to promote the notion of hegemony, the idea that society shares the same basic values and norms.

Marxists argue that differences in politics, which is another part of the ISA, are there simply to promote the false ideas of democracy and freedom of choice, where as in the mainstream media, there is almost no difference in the portrayal of the generality of the morality of society, (Hard Work, marriage, national pride etc) as well as what exactly main stream political issues are.

These issues, according to Marxists, are there to divide society and make it easier for the elite to maintain control. Stuart Hall’s book ‘Policing the Crisis’ (1980) looked at the moral panic of mugging and its effects in the media. He found that the media in conjunction with the bourgeoisie create moral panics in order to perpetuate fear and maintain control over the whole of society. The bourgeoisie felt a lack of control due to a rise in “deviant” cultures e.g. free love movement, drug cultures and stronger unions. Moral panic was used to perpetuate fear which enabled greater control over the proletariat. Such fears make the public want more police, which,Marxists argue would allow for even greater control over the population."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seeing as we're going all unabashedly high brow in here

Cultural theorists Jean Baudrillard and Michel Foucault disagreed on who lay behind the manufacturing of consent. Foucault was more conventionally Marxist and portrayed our cultural norms as largely finnessed and controlled by the ruling elites. Baudrillard proposed the curious idea of a panopticon, which is a jail in which a central column allows the prison guards to observe all the inmates whilst the inmates can't see the guards. Baudrillard proposed that there were no guards watching us... that we were being quite effectively policed by our own fear of them without actually needing them. He therefore talked about the simulation of power as being todays main tool for the powerful, rather than real power. He's a curious oddball... but I love some of his ideas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....""

This is absolutely true. And almost impossible to break free from.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 24/10/15 01:14:08]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah you hear a lot of that stuff coming from conspiracy theorists.

Human resources is a good film if you're really into this stuff. It opens with a quote from John B Watson, "The driving force in society is not love, it's fear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJEdDNDsI

2 hrs long but full of interesting stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah you hear a lot of that stuff coming from conspiracy theorists.

Human resources is a good film if you're really into this stuff. It opens with a quote from John B Watson, "The driving force in society is not love, it's fear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJEdDNDsI

2 hrs long but full of interesting stuff."

Of course the real conspiracy here is that good ideas which threaten conventional thinking are often co-opted by "conspiracy theorists" and added to a bunch of nonsense about aliens and princess diana so that people dismiss all of it as equally rubbish. Are these "conspiracy theorists" really conspiracy theorists? Or are they covert intelligence officials trying to bury and muddy stuff that threatens the status quo?

There's a rabbit hole here. Cultural theorist Paul Virilio once said something like... "it is through fleeing the prison cell that we run deeper into the prison". Bleak but true imo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah you hear a lot of that stuff coming from conspiracy theorists.

Human resources is a good film if you're really into this stuff. It opens with a quote from John B Watson, "The driving force in society is not love, it's fear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rnJEdDNDsI

2 hrs long but full of interesting stuff.

Of course the real conspiracy here is that good ideas which threaten conventional thinking are often co-opted by "conspiracy theorists" and added to a bunch of nonsense about aliens and princess diana so that people dismiss all of it as equally rubbish. Are these "conspiracy theorists" really conspiracy theorists? Or are they covert intelligence officials trying to bury and muddy stuff that threatens the status quo?

There's a rabbit hole here. Cultural theorist Paul Virilio once said something like... "it is through fleeing the prison cell that we run deeper into the prison". Bleak but true imo"

Yeah i've seen a fair amount of crappy conspiracies as well, or ones that focus on the wrong thing(s).

And many conspiracists wouldn't even be able to prove their stuff, like how would we even know, with what little knowledge we have ourselves - personally, if something is an alien? A lot of stuff, to the majority of people, would be based on not knowing of having information and not being able to investigate in this stuff personally.

Dunno, or care, who they are but wish they'd stay off youtube.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And, like in the case of 9/11, how many people actually know what they're talking about and how many just repeat what 'experts' say?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When we recognise that the people trying to lead us out of the maze may comprise of some people who are trying to lead us deeper into it... that's wake up time.

Most conspiracy theories are deliberately devised to be straw man arguments. That's why, whenever there's ever a TV program on a conspiracy theory it always takes the same predictable journey of building it up and supporting it before finally pulling the whole house of cards down.

The idea is that somewhere in all that information that you just flushed down your mental loo... is something that is actually true and they don't want you to think its true... like the Western intelligence services listening in to your every forum posting GULP!!

Errr... at least that's what someone I once knew used to think errr... nothing to look at here... everyone move along please

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not heard about that theory, but i don't watch TV. I prefer history documentaries, that although could be biased they are more likely to be based on truth.

Lol, this site is flagged as government interest now.

Noam Chomsky is in that documentary, just saying for anybody interested.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield


""The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....""

No that only works until the people get so frustrated with the control they explode in revolution then those who have been controlling them suffer the consequences.

Left-wingers like Chomsky often believe in control instead of freedom

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Edward Bernays arguably invented propaganda - although he called it public relations:

"He combined the ideas of Gustave Le Bon and Wilfred Trotter on crowd psychology with the psychoanalytical ideas of his uncle, Sigmund Freud.

He felt this manipulation was necessary in society, which he regarded as irrational and dangerous as a result of the "herd instinct"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays"

I thought propaganda was even earlier. I have in my head that it was a Russian process of getting good ideas between farmers. The propagandists were collecting and spreading good ideas.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....""
Well, it works for North Korea!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow shocked and pleased that so many of you know where this quote comes from!

I've been thinking about this a lot since I first saw it, re how lively debates about issues are but at the same time how much things get shut down. Interesting how the debates about the issues Jeremy Corbyn brought up were seen as so challenging and threatening by many.

Also about discussions about sex. This place is sometimes amazing for the honesty people display in talking about sexual issues. I don't think it would be allowed in many areas of the mainstream media! Or if it was, it would be quickly ridiculed and shut down..."

Have you seen the number of threads that get shut down on here? Or people banned for Mentioning it.

Don't kid yourself this is some bastion of free speech.

Talk about tit size all day, but don't dare talk about x/y/z.

Ooh let's pass /kiss/fuck some more shall we

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wow shocked and pleased that so many of you know where this quote comes from!

I've been thinking about this a lot since I first saw it, re how lively debates about issues are but at the same time how much things get shut down. Interesting how the debates about the issues Jeremy Corbyn brought up were seen as so challenging and threatening by many.

Also about discussions about sex. This place is sometimes amazing for the honesty people display in talking about sexual issues. I don't think it would be allowed in many areas of the mainstream media! Or if it was, it would be quickly ridiculed and shut down...

Have you seen the number of threads that get shut down on here? Or people banned for Mentioning it.

Don't kid yourself this is some bastion of free speech.

Talk about tit size all day, but don't dare talk about x/y/z.

Ooh let's pass /kiss/fuck some more shall we "

This isn't supposed to be a free speech forum. I don't want people talking about home cooked drugs, rape, or have members able to abuse other members.

This is entertainment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Propaganda has been around much much longer.

One of the most famous examples of propaganda during wartime was the US use of it to instigate and justify the Spanish-American war. Interesting topic if you ever have a free afternoon "

The Roman Empire was pretty good at propaganda nearly two thousand years before that too. The world was much more understandable to the common man when their rulers split it into us, the citizens, and them, the barbarians.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I thought it was from that era! Wasn't that when the whole concept of propaganda was invented?

Propaganda has been around much much longer.

One of the most famous examples of propaganda during wartime was the US use of it to instigate and justify the Spanish-American war. Interesting topic if you ever have a free afternoon

The Roman Empire was pretty good at propaganda nearly two thousand years before that too. The world was much more understandable to the common man when their rulers split it into us, the citizens, and them, the barbarians."

Yes, and the oratory skills of the ancient Greek politicians. Reading their speeches is so interesting.

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