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"This should be an offence of such gravity akin to treason. Loss of office and the ultimate penalty. " Really so you would bind a government to things said m before they came to power regardless of changes in circumstance? That would lead to some pretty stupid situations where th government may be forced not to follow the most sensible course eof action. Or be forces to follow a cause/uphold an idea that has later proved to be utterly unworkable and insane | |||
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"This should be an offence of such gravity akin to treason. Loss of office and the ultimate penalty. Really so you would bind a government to things said m before they came to power regardless of changes in circumstance? That would lead to some pretty stupid situations where th government may be forced not to follow the most sensible course eof action. Or be forces to follow a cause/uphold an idea that has later proved to be utterly unworkable and insane " CaMoron made this tax credit promise on the video six months ago. are you really trying to say he wasn't prime minister at that time or that he hadn't been prime minister for the five years previous to that?  | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category " Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. " Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic | |||
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"Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic" Yeah! Let's put kinds in to poverty! Penalise the next generation for the 'sins' of the fathers (and mothers). Seems perfectly reasonable to me... | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic" Bottom 2 lines are a bit strong but I agree with everything in there. On a completely separate issue this country in general is driving me completely nuts.I've been summoned to court for one non payment of council tax and hit with costs that total £95.00. Lovely compassionate society we live in,and more importantly like you say,the wage don't fit no more. | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic" Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. The following day Ed Balls attacked him for dodging the question, and 'cuts to tax credits' thereafter formed a large part of Labour's strategy, which was rejected by the electorate. The trouble with tax credits is that they became a way of massaging the unemployment figures, with a number of people (like the one on Question Time) encouraged to go 'self-employed' on jobs that make no money. They have also encouraged employers to have numbers of people on low hours and low wages as a cynical management technique. That said, I sense another Osbourne climbdown brewing, effective tax rates of around 100% never look 'compassionate' Mr ddc" Happy to bail out the banks but not industry or the working poor. Absolute shower. | |||
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"There,s got to be tax credits cut,s. Were,s the money coming from to feed the poor migrants " Um... where are all these 'poor migrants'? | |||
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"There,s got to be tax credits cut,s. Were,s the money coming from to feed the poor migrants Um... where are all these 'poor migrants'?" From what I saw on Ch4 news, they're picking our fruit and veg on conditions that look little better than slavery | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. " I'll agree with you too on that one.My job required me to visit domestic properties daily and on some estates it's rife.It was a generational thing too,"mam and dad never worked so I'll be fucked if I am".And you know who relied on them for votes ? Labour! | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. " I never said that, and what relevance is it of your girlfriend? My mum had a cat once that spoke Chinese
Your stance that people on benefits want to be and are behaving selfishly by having children they can't afford is right out of the front pages of the daily fail. The issues are far more complex and if you can't be bothered to even try and understand them theres no point | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. Mr ddc" ..... look again. whatever the merit of the current policy, the fact remains that in the april tv audience hustings he lied. here's the 38 dgerees video in question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPpGiJioGA | |||
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" Happy to bail out the banks but not industry or the working poor. Absolute shower." They didn't bail out the banks per se, they bailed out the rich. If the banks had failed, it would have been the rich who would have lost money - as they did in Cyprus. But let's not forget, it was Brown who decided to do that, not Cameron | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. The following day Ed Balls attacked him for dodging the question, and 'cuts to tax credits' thereafter formed a large part of Labour's strategy, which was rejected by the electorate. The trouble with tax credits is that they became a way of massaging the unemployment figures, with a number of people (like the one on Question Time) encouraged to go 'self-employed' on jobs that make no money. They have also encouraged employers to have numbers of people on low hours and low wages as a cynical management technique. That said, I sense another Osbourne climbdown brewing, effective tax rates of around 100% never look 'compassionate' Mr ddc Happy to bail out the banks but not industry or the working poor. Absolute shower." It was Gordon Brown and Labour who bailed out the banks. | |||
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"I'll agree with you too on that one.My job required me to visit domestic properties daily and on some estates it's rife.It was a generational thing too,"mam and dad never worked so I'll be fucked if I am".And you know who relied on them for votes ? Labour!" As well you know, large swathes of the North are economically fucked, with the vortex of London sucking the life out of the rest of the country. While I agree that Labour didn't do enough to look after its 'core vote' (who turned to UKIP in large numbers) I think a large part of it has to do with degradation of traditional industries, a lack of investment and opportunities. Or what are we saying here? We're back to Victorian ideas of 'the undeserving poor' | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. I never said that, and what relevance is it of your girlfriend? My mum had a cat once that spoke Chinese
Your stance that people on benefits want to be and are behaving selfishly by having children they can't afford is right out of the front pages of the daily fail. The issues are far more complex and if you can't be bothered to even try and understand them theres no point"Don't patronise me mate. I'm not a fucking idiot. We have different opinions. Go and be a politician if you think you have all the answers. | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. Mr ddc ..... look again. whatever the merit of the current policy, the fact remains that in the april tv audience hustings he lied. here's the 38 dgerees video in question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPpGiJioGA " I prefer the unedited one. It's a little more honest, a little less partisan, and when even the Grauniad is defending him, I know which I believe. For the future, when a politician is asked "can you categorically deny you will do x, and he says "What lovely weather, don't you know", it means he definitely will | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. Mr ddc ..... look again. whatever the merit of the current policy, the fact remains that in the april tv audience hustings he lied. here's the 38 dgerees video in question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPpGiJioGA I prefer the unedited one. It's a little more honest, a little less partisan, and when even the Grauniad is defending him, I know which I believe. For the future, when a politician is asked "can you categorically deny you will do x, and he says "What lovely weather, don't you know", it means he definitely will" post up the link .... would be handy | |||
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"It was Gordon Brown and Labour who bailed out the banks. " This is true... What is not recognised is the continuing place of G'ment in propping up the banks, something it continues to do... * Launched in March 2009, British Quantitative Easing was presented as a £50bn program. It has since ballooned to £375bn * The largest UK banks are saving tens of billions every year, courtesy of the taxpayer. Thanks to the too-big-to-fail subsidy, our four largest banks saved £37.7bn on their borrowing costs in 2012 – up 10% from 2011. * Banks received 'implicit' taxpayer subsidy of up to £220bn, Bank of England says You wanna discuss the relative merits or not of welfare payments? | |||
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"I'll agree with you too on that one.My job required me to visit domestic properties daily and on some estates it's rife.It was a generational thing too,"mam and dad never worked so I'll be fucked if I am".And you know who relied on them for votes ? Labour! As well you know, large swathes of the North are economically fucked, with the vortex of London sucking the life out of the rest of the country. While I agree that Labour didn't do enough to look after its 'core vote' (who turned to UKIP in large numbers) I think a large part of it has to do with degradation of traditional industries, a lack of investment and opportunities. Or what are we saying here? We're back to Victoerrian ideas of 'the undeserving poor'" No Joe but what I am saying is that no matter who we vote in they're all a shower.I don't trust anybody in a suit with a certain accent,no one.Nobody is going to put the Great back into Britain. But society is fucked too,absolute shambles. If we didn't pay these benefits out crime would rocket mind,that's for sure. I don't agree with poverty in this country but at the same time people have got to be accountable for their actions,or lack of. | |||
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"No Joe but what I am saying is that no matter who we vote in they're all a shower.I don't trust anybody in a suit with a certain accent,no one.Nobody is going to put the Great back into Britain. But society is fucked too,absolute shambles. If we didn't pay these benefits out crime would rocket mind,that's for sure. I don't agree with poverty in this country but at the same time people have got to be accountable for their actions,or lack of." Interesting but the simple fact of the matter that the only difference between rich people and poor people is... ...money. Put money in, get results out. Simple. | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. I never said that, and what relevance is it of your girlfriend? My mum had a cat once that spoke Chinese
Your stance that people on benefits want to be and are behaving selfishly by having children they can't afford is right out of the front pages of the daily fail. The issues are far more complex and if you can't be bothered to even try and understand them theres no point
Don't patronise me mate. I'm not a fucking idiot. We have different opinions. Go and be a politician if you think you have all the answers. "I'm not patronising you, I'm simply pointing out that you don't have any of the facts with regards to this issue, its not a question of opinion, you're saying that people are having children they can't afford, that's not opinion that's conjecture. I'm just saying that you're wrong | |||
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"I'll agree with you too on that one.My job required me to visit domestic properties daily and on some estates it's rife.It was a generational thing too,"mam and dad never worked so I'll be fucked if I am".And you know who relied on them for votes ? Labour! As well you know, large swathes of the North are economically fucked, with the vortex of London sucking the life out of the rest of the country. While I agree that Labour didn't do enough to look after its 'core vote' (who turned to UKIP in large numbers) I think a large part of it has to do with degradation of traditional industries, a lack of investment and opportunities. Or what are we saying here? We're back to Victoerrian ideas of 'the undeserving poor' No Joe but what I am saying is that no matter who we vote in they're all a shower.I don't trust anybody in a suit with a certain accent,no one.Nobody is going to put the Great back into Britain. But society is fucked too,absolute shambles. If we didn't pay these benefits out crime would rocket mind,that's for sure. I don't agree with poverty in this country but at the same time people have got to be accountable for their actions,or lack of." so it follows that the monkey at the top has to be held accountable for this particular lie then, where he said one thing then attempts puts completely the opposite into action when he thinks everyones forgotten what he said. | |||
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"It was Gordon Brown and Labour who bailed out the banks. This is true... What is not recognised is the continuing place of G'ment in propping up the banks, something it continues to do... * Launched in March 2009, British Quantitative Easing was presented as a £50bn program. It has since ballooned to £375bn * The largest UK banks are saving tens of billions every year, courtesy of the taxpayer. Thanks to the too-big-to-fail subsidy, our four largest banks saved £37.7bn on their borrowing costs in 2012 – up 10% from 2011. * Banks received 'implicit' taxpayer subsidy of up to £220bn, Bank of England says You wanna discuss the relative merits or not of welfare payments?" I know Corbyn's position of abolishing the welfare cap and allowing unlimited benefits for all is not the answer. | |||
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"It was Gordon Brown and Labour who bailed out the banks. This is true... What is not recognised is the continuing place of G'ment in propping up the banks, something it continues to do... * Launched in March 2009, British Quantitative Easing was presented as a £50bn program. It has since ballooned to £375bn * The largest UK banks are saving tens of billions every year, courtesy of the taxpayer. Thanks to the too-big-to-fail subsidy, our four largest banks saved £37.7bn on their borrowing costs in 2012 – up 10% from 2011. * Banks received 'implicit' taxpayer subsidy of up to £220bn, Bank of England says You wanna discuss the relative merits or not of welfare payments? I know Corbyn's position of abolishing the welfare cap and allowing unlimited benefits for all is not the answer. " I'm not saying I agree with it either but... Why not? | |||
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"I know Corbyn's position of abolishing the welfare cap and allowing unlimited benefits for all is not the answer. " that's completely irrelevant .... corbyn's not the prime minister | |||
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"I'll agree with you too on that one.My job required me to visit domestic properties daily and on some estates it's rife.It was a generational thing too,"mam and dad never worked so I'll be fucked if I am".And you know who relied on them for votes ? Labour! As well you know, large swathes of the North are economically fucked, with the vortex of London sucking the life out of the rest of the country. While I agree that Labour didn't do enough to look after its 'core vote' (who turned to UKIP in large numbers) I think a large part of it has to do with degradation of traditional industries, a lack of investment and opportunities. Or what are we saying here? We're back to Victoerrian ideas of 'the undeserving poor' No Joe but what I am saying is that no matter who we vote in they're all a shower.I don't trust anybody in a suit with a certain accent,no one.Nobody is going to put the Great back into Britain. But society is fucked too,absolute shambles. If we didn't pay these benefits out crime would rocket mind,that's for sure. I don't agree with poverty in this country but at the same time people have got to be accountable for their actions,or lack of. so it follows that the monkey at the top has to be held accountable for this particular lie then, where he said one thing then attempts puts completely the opposite into action when he thinks everyones forgotten what he said." Yes. He's a cnut. They all are!! | |||
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"I don't trust anyone who supports Corbyn. He's a lunatic who needs booting out, Yvette Cooper should have won. Labour won't get my vote until they have a leader with common sense." Thanks for that party election broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party | |||
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"I don't trust anyone who supports Corbyn. He's a lunatic who needs booting out, Yvette Cooper should have won. Labour won't get my vote until they have a leader with common sense. Thanks for that party election broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party" Lol, and this is why you guys won't get the support. You taint anyone who disagrees with you as the bad guy. Good luck! | |||
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"I don't trust anyone who supports Corbyn. He's a lunatic who needs booting out, Yvette Cooper should have won. Labour won't get my vote until they have a leader with common sense. Thanks for that party election broadcast on behalf of the Conservative Party Lol, and this is why you guys won't get the support. You taint anyone who disagrees with you as the bad guy. Good luck!" Why not? Dare to be different | |||
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"Yes mum! *slaps wrist*" It wasn't meant for you, don't get upset | |||
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"If you watch it he says he doesn't want to cut them, not that he won't cut them, so not exactly a liar. Although he has broken their policy of making families better off, but seeing as that's such a vague term it could have meant anything. Fuck them, dunno why voters don't look into what parties actually do and vote off that instead of falling for their bullshit propaganda. " A B have you lost faith with all of them ? Whichever party ? In fact,all world leaders ? What a brutal world we live in. | |||
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" post up the link .... would be handy " for the best link you'll have to Google "Has the Prime Minister broken a promise on tax credits" I don't know if that'll count as a news site. The grauniad summary is at http://gu.com/p/4ddyy/sbl | |||
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" post up the link .... would be handy for the best link you'll have to Google "Has the Prime Minister broken a promise on tax credits" I don't know if that'll count as a news site. The grauniad summary is at http://gu.com/p/4ddyy/sbl" ok, i know it's the mirror but it does show the un-edited footage of the hustings in question. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/question-time-election-leaders-david-5612459 | |||
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"If you watch it he says he doesn't want to cut them, not that he won't cut them, so not exactly a liar. Although he has broken their policy of making families better off, but seeing as that's such a vague term it could have meant anything. Fuck them, dunno why voters don't look into what parties actually do and vote off that instead of falling for their bullshit propaganda. A B have you lost faith with all of them ? Whichever party ? In fact,all world leaders ? What a brutal world we live in." It can be brutal if it wasn't for the people who do give a shit. And half of what most of the people in power do doesn't make sense to normal people who haven't got personality disorders. I've read the local news, we have people being fined for stealing baby milk when they couldn't afford to feed their kids. Real people, the ones who never even asked to be voted into being responsible for anyone, then set up a fund to pay her fine off. The people on power allowed her poverty to be used as an excuse to punish her further with more poverty. Totally fucked up. I am very much a fuck the system kind of person when i see it being used to fuck us. | |||
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"Labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives lied...." labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives are lying..... | |||
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"Labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives lied.... labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives are lying....." We get the politicians we deserve... and if you have a better idea of how the country should be governed, I'm all ears. But it speaks volumes that people are turned off by the political process. | |||
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" I'm not patronising you, I'm simply pointing out that you don't have any of the facts with regards to this issue, its not a question of opinion, you're saying that people are having children they can't afford, that's not opinion that's conjecture. I'm just saying that you're wrong" So why are they banging on about their tax credits being cut? How about clawing some of the 42 billion in wasted student fees as only 20 percent of post grads are in post grad jobs. This country hasn't gone to shit because of one party. Who here has grown up under both partys. I could say its gone to shit because of scargill and blair. But I'm not an idiot so I won't. | |||
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"I am not sure of the surprise, all parties seem to lie. Tax credits were brought in to help people with a living wage and to get people off the unemployment figures.... if that is taken away then there will be more people back on the dole which will still cost them money." 2011 riots revisited ? | |||
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"I am not sure of the surprise, all parties seem to lie. Tax credits were brought in to help people with a living wage and to get people off the unemployment figures.... if that is taken away then there will be more people back on the dole which will still cost them money." Yes, they were an overly complicated way of redistributing money. A good idea in principle but a poor expression in practice. | |||
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"I am not sure of the surprise, all parties seem to lie. Tax credits were brought in to help people with a living wage and to get people off the unemployment figures.... if that is taken away then there will be more people back on the dole which will still cost them money." But they won't be able to claim benefits. They made sure people with kids have to go to work quite early now, they made sanctions a legitimate thing and they do apply them quite harshly. They made sure a majority of people were happy with cutting benefits, and people on benefits (who are working) agreed with them so even voted for that, forgetting they were also on benefits. I feel sorry for anyone who didn't vote for this and is gonna be affected by it. | |||
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"Thought i'd Chuck this in,seems quite apt John Lennon - working class hero" Apropos... Marvin Gaye - Inner City Blues (Make Me Wanna Holler) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Ykv1D0qEE | |||
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"I am not sure of the surprise, all parties seem to lie. Tax credits were brought in to help people with a living wage and to get people off the unemployment figures.... if that is taken away then there will be more people back on the dole which will still cost them money. But they won't be able to claim benefits. They made sure people with kids have to go to work quite early now, they made sanctions a legitimate thing and they do apply them quite harshly. They made sure a majority of people were happy with cutting benefits, and people on benefits (who are working) agreed with them so even voted for that, forgetting they were also on benefits. I feel sorry for anyone who didn't vote for this and is gonna be affected by it." Sounds even worse than I thought. I am assuming if they lose a job and can't find another they would be able to claim | |||
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" I'm not patronising you, I'm simply pointing out that you don't have any of the facts with regards to this issue, its not a question of opinion, you're saying that people are having children they can't afford, that's not opinion that's conjecture. I'm just saying that you're wrong So why are they banging on about their tax credits being cut? How about clawing some of the 42 billion in wasted student fees as only 20 percent of post grads are in post grad jobs. This country hasn't gone to shit because of one party. Who here has grown up under both partys. I could say its gone to shit because of scargill and blair. But I'm not an idiot so I won't. " Because they need the money to live! Wages are down living costs are up, you do the maths! If its anything its the irresponsible spending of both parties, the black hole of pensions that constantly cycles the overspend on all government areas and so the answer is to take it off the people who can't afford it? Bravo! Good answer | |||
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"I am not sure of the surprise, all parties seem to lie. Tax credits were brought in to help people with a living wage and to get people off the unemployment figures.... if that is taken away then there will be more people back on the dole which will still cost them money. But they won't be able to claim benefits. They made sure people with kids have to go to work quite early now, they made sanctions a legitimate thing and they do apply them quite harshly. They made sure a majority of people were happy with cutting benefits, and people on benefits (who are working) agreed with them so even voted for that, forgetting they were also on benefits. I feel sorry for anyone who didn't vote for this and is gonna be affected by it. Sounds even worse than I thought. I am assuming if they lose a job and can't find another they would be able to claim" They didn't financially support my son for over a year when he was still a child, by law - their laws, and they're fine with that and it was legal. Despite their being a law saying you need a certain amount to live off, this doesn't mean you're entitled to it or will get it. Then when you look at housing benefit cuts, and tax allowance cuts, they made many of the poor worse off here again. Tory scum is a very appropriate phrase, but i'm gonna extend it to other parties too coz i'm not biased or blinkered. Money buys you immorality, but this will change because there are going to be more people without money soon. | |||
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"Oh and they also capped benefits for families so they can't have more kids instead of working...." I agree with that one to be fair....if people are on benefits why bring another child into the equation. | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! " Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that. | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! " Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. | |||
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"Oh and they also capped benefits for families so they can't have more kids instead of working.... I agree with that one to be fair....if people are on benefits why bring another child into the equation." Because they're apathetic dicks and they know a soft government will pay for it. | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that." Getting rid of tax loopholes as well so that companies who profit here also pay their fair share of tax. Like costa coffee, tesco etc...they really gonna take their business elsewhere if they have to pay their tax? Where they gonna move their shops to? | |||
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"We get the politicians we deserve... and if you have a better idea of how the country should be governed, I'm all ears. But it speaks volumes that people are turned off by the political process. " kinda surprised you've resorted to that rhetorical soundbyte of cynicism. that soundbyte is usually used to shift blame for what the elected do onto the electorate. i have been disenchanted with how the political system works since i was a yoof. inviting me to describe how i want to be controlled/governed is to use another sounbyte "like asking turkeys to vote for christmas" .... when your central heating is broken you know it's broken but it doesn't necessarily mean you know how to fix it. the upshot is, no matter how much shit we think we're in as a group of nations, lying politicians ain't making things any better. and yes it does speak volumes doesn't it. | |||
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"Oh and they also capped benefits for families so they can't have more kids instead of working.... I agree with that one to be fair....if people are on benefits why bring another child into the equation." In the main they don't, except on Ch5 Documentaries. Most people on benefits are on them for short periods, between jobs, so they have the kids, then fall on hard times. It's a bit of a nonsense policy, imo, because its full impact won't fall until the next parliament, since it's only for children born after 2017, and will we really take all the 3rd-born children into care? | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. " Likewise, we're entitled to no more than child benefit. But that doesn't make it right that millions of families will have 1000 a year ripped away. The more pertinent question for me, is why in 2015 so many working people need their salaries propped up by the state.. Either wages need to rise sufficiently, or the cost of living needs addressing urgently. | |||
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"Oh and they also capped benefits for families so they can't have more kids instead of working.... I agree with that one to be fair....if people are on benefits why bring another child into the equation." because Their pig Ignorant for starters. | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. " But what if those people in the semi worked all their working lives to get the semi and cars and then lost their job through no fault of their own? Do you suggest they don't get anything at all even if they have paid taxes for years? | |||
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"because Their pig Ignorant for starters." must......resist.......irony....remark | |||
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"Oh and they also capped benefits for families so they can't have more kids instead of working.... I agree with that one to be fair....if people are on benefits why bring another child into the equation. In the main they don't, except on Ch5 Documentaries. Most people on benefits are on them for short periods, between jobs, so they have the kids, then fall on hard times. It's a bit of a nonsense policy, imo, because its full impact won't fall until the next parliament, since it's only for children born after 2017, and will we really take all the 3rd-born children into care?" They just won't pay you money for it by the sounds of it. CH5 isn't the only place people can see what others are doing. We used to have a neighbour many moons ago who had four children while claiming benefit and I doubt if they were the only ones, it does happen. | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Likewise, we're entitled to no more than child benefit. But that doesn't make it right that millions of families will have 1000 a year ripped away. The more pertinent question for me, is why in 2015 so many working people need their salaries propped up by the state.. Either wages need to rise sufficiently, or the cost of living needs addressing urgently. "
I didn't get the £400+ family tax credit rise mentioned by Cameron either. Not just for the fact that i didn't get more money but also my money was cut via extra taxes. | |||
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" The more pertinent question for me, is why in 2015 so many working people need their salaries propped up by the state.. " This | |||
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"The more pertinent question for me, is why in 2015 so many working people need their salaries propped up by the state.. " One could argue that it's a way government controls the electorate. "Vote for us, and we'll give you free cash"* When Dame Shirley Porter did it, it was called 'gerrymandering' when Gordon Brown did it, it was called 'Tax Credits'
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* but it won't really be free, we'll just borrow it from your kids... | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. But what if those people in the semi worked all their working lives to get the semi and cars and then lost their job through no fault of their own? Do you suggest they don't get anything at all even if they have paid taxes for years?" this.. anyone can end up on their arse as a result of many reasons.. there but for etc.. Oh, and politicians lie.. why is anyone even a tiny bit surprised.. | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. But what if those people in the semi worked all their working lives to get the semi and cars and then lost their job through no fault of their own? Do you suggest they don't get anything at all even if they have paid taxes for years?" What like I did? Tax credits are for people who are working and living above their means. Sell a car, Cancel the sky, don't spend £200 a week on food Start a business like I did when I was on the dole after losing a 15 year job overnight. Or carry on living above your means and go cap in hand to the government. Choices eh? | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that. Getting rid of tax loopholes as well so that companies who profit here also pay their fair share of tax. Like costa coffee, tesco etc...they really gonna take their business elsewhere if they have to pay their tax? Where they gonna move their shops to?" Thought Costa were one of the good guys? Starbucks are the tax dodgers | |||
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"If you watch it he says he doesn't want to cut them, not that he won't cut them, so not exactly a liar. Although he has broken their policy of making families better off, but seeing as that's such a vague term it could have meant anything. Fuck them, dunno why voters don't look into what parties actually do and vote off that instead of falling for their bullshit propaganda. A B have you lost faith with all of them ? Whichever party ? In fact,all world leaders ? What a brutal world we live in." you can go back in time to king john and before and back To modern times where us serfs as we were once called worked on the land And payed our taxes to unscrupelous people of the time, things got a bit better after king john, but there have always been those who will take right Or wrong if its to line their pockets, Closer to home or westminster makes no Difference, but decisions usually come From westminster, people in office (some) misuse their power which was Only highlighted in a local paper across the front page recently and Most of this lot had nothing to do with westminster but I was very glad It was highlighted for people to see And for me too, anything good to come From this will be a bonus.. | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. But what if those people in the semi worked all their working lives to get the semi and cars and then lost their job through no fault of their own? Do you suggest they don't get anything at all even if they have paid taxes for years? What like I did? Tax credits are for people who are working and living above their means. Sell a car, Cancel the sky, don't spend £200 a week on food Start a business like I did when I was on the dole after losing a 15 year job overnight. Or carry on living above your means and go cap in hand to the government. Choices eh? " So you are not against anyone getting dole when they needed help the same as you did? I am confused I think | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. " So you know who's hard up and who isn't? This theoretical family need these things to work and function or would you have them move into a one bed terrace before you help them? You don't know peoples circumstances so you can't judge. You don't need benefits? Good for you but others do. Heaven forbid you should need help in your lifetime and you meet someone like yourself in the process | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that. Getting rid of tax loopholes as well so that companies who profit here also pay their fair share of tax. Like costa coffee, tesco etc...they really gonna take their business elsewhere if they have to pay their tax? Where they gonna move their shops to? Thought Costa were one of the good guys? Starbucks are the tax dodgers " Yeah you're right, sorry. We have a costa here and i went in yesterday, wouldn't have used them if they were tax dodgers. | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that. Getting rid of tax loopholes as well so that companies who profit here also pay their fair share of tax. Like costa coffee, tesco etc...they really gonna take their business elsewhere if they have to pay their tax? Where they gonna move their shops to? Thought Costa were one of the good guys? Starbucks are the tax dodgers Yeah you're right, sorry. We have a costa here and i went in yesterday, wouldn't have used them if they were tax dodgers." Wasn't nitpicking I have not got a clue who to buy coffee off these days without feeling guilty or outraged  | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Whatever luv, my girlfriends never had a job. Her mum has never had a job, shes 50. She had 6 kids though. Your deluded if you think our countrys problems are all down to one political party. I never said that, and what relevance is it of your girlfriend? My mum had a cat once that spoke Chinese
Your stance that people on benefits want to be and are behaving selfishly by having children they can't afford is right out of the front pages of the daily fail. The issues are far more complex and if you can't be bothered to even try and understand them theres no point
Don't patronise me mate. I'm not a fucking idiot. We have different opinions. Go and be a politician if you think you have all the answers.
I'm not patronising you, I'm simply pointing out that you don't have any of the facts with regards to this issue, its not a question of opinion, you're saying that people are having children they can't afford, that's not opinion that's conjecture. I'm just saying that you're wrong"He's not wrong, there are people who are just breading for the sake of getting money and never getting a job, just because that doesn't apply to you doesn't mean its not true, it also doesn't mean everyone is, | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. So you know who's hard up and who isn't? This theoretical family need these things to work and function or would you have them move into a one bed terrace before you help them? You don't know peoples circumstances so you can't judge. You don't need benefits? Good for you but others do. Heaven forbid you should need help in your lifetime and you meet someone like yourself in the process" What??? Do you know me? You think you do based on a few posts?? I'm one step away from homelessness, have no financial security, no pension, no legacy. I don't earn a living wage and am nearly bankrupt, why? Because i have philanthropy at my heart. I give away my services cheaply. And yet helping a crying woman once, put her dead wrapped up baby in a river coz she didn't have the money for a funeral or the energy to bury him, made me realise how privileged I am in. I would never ask for anything ever again. | |||
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"*whispers it* Pensions reform! Nah, extending capital gains to owner occupation and scrapping ALL exemptions to inheritance tax. The only two sources of (legal) income not currently taxed. Then using the money to build affordable housing. But we would need a proper socialist government.to do that. Getting rid of tax loopholes as well so that companies who profit here also pay their fair share of tax. Like costa coffee, tesco etc...they really gonna take their business elsewhere if they have to pay their tax? Where they gonna move their shops to? Thought Costa were one of the good guys? Starbucks are the tax dodgers Yeah you're right, sorry. We have a costa here and i went in yesterday, wouldn't have used them if they were tax dodgers. Wasn't nitpicking I have not got a clue who to buy coffee off these days without feeling guilty or outraged "No it's fine, i don't like to receive the wrong facts myself, but yeah Nero also tax dodge - i don't use them because their coffees are tiny. I started buying local years ago, figured i might as well give my money to people who are gonna pay tax rates to my immediate area rather than risk giving my money to people who might not pay tax at all. | |||
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" Because they need the money to live! Bless. They? Who's they? The ones with no entitlement, the ones with no financial security, the ones with no legacy? I'm all for helping the actual poor, not people in their 3 bed semis in suburbia with their 2 cars on the drive. So you know who's hard up and who isn't? This theoretical family need these things to work and function or would you have them move into a one bed terrace before you help them? You don't know peoples circumstances so you can't judge. You don't need benefits? Good for you but others do. Heaven forbid you should need help in your lifetime and you meet someone like yourself in the process What??? Do you know me? You think you do based on a few posts?? I'm one step away from homelessness, have no financial security, no pension, no legacy. I don't earn a living wage and am nearly bankrupt, why? Because i have philanthropy at my heart. I give away my services cheaply. And yet helping a crying woman once, put her dead wrapped up baby in a river coz she didn't have the money for a funeral or the energy to bury him, made me realise how privileged I am in. I would never ask for anything ever again. " I don't claim to know you, nor do I claim to but you're projecting your beliefs onto others and expecting them to thrive? By your own admission you're not and you expect those with children to live like that? You'll excuse me if I don't. I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. Spoken like a true humanitarian "I'm alright so why aren't you?!" Personally I had loads of money when I had my children thanks, unfortunately the economy fell into the crapper as did my very nice well paid job. We can't help what happens to us and don't be so naive as to believe the picture of dole dossers churning out babies to get more and more money at the public expense. Most people on benefits don't want to be, I'd love to be able to survive on my wage alone but in the face of increasing prices, rents and gas/electric rates sadly pride takes a back seat in favour of my children eating. The self deluded stance of I'm OK so why aren't you is insulting and frankly idiotic Bottom 2 lines are a bit strong but I agree with everything in there. On a completely separate issue this country in general is driving me completely nuts.I've been summoned to court for one non payment of council tax and hit with costs that total £95.00. Lovely compassionate society we live in,and more importantly like you say,the wage don't fit no more." Council tax is a con and if you do some research you'll find out why. | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that" Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. " I've already answered that, nothing is black and white. If you still think that's what people do then there's no point arguing with you | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. I've already answered that, nothing is black and white. If you still think that's what people do then there's no point arguing with you" No there's not. I don't question individual peoples existence or their motives though do I? Not like all the geniuses here do when i post something they don't agree with. "Someone like you" Whatever Genius. | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. " If people don't have kids then the human race dies out. Might not be a bad thing tbh, but i'm going to presume we want the human race to continue. You cannot say it's ok for only the affluent to have kids, especially when we have a global economy that's been designed to mainly value mass profits and is ran unethically on many levels wen not pressured by the workers to change. The way society is now, there will always be people without jobs, always. And it's going to get worse, the way technology is advancing predicts this. I get your saying people should go through hard times sometimes because that's how life is, but for many people there will be no end to the hard times without mass pressure to change anything. A lot of change is needed right now, has been needed for decades,despite progress in certain areas.Toomany, greedy and entitled people have ruined the economy, maybe the ones who are lazy and on benefits contribute tot hat in a small way but you gotta admit the ones with the most power to immediately change anything will not change anything because it immensely benefits them not to. | |||
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"i think it was interesting watching PMQ's today because i got the feeling this is the first time i have seen cameron be really on the defensive about the tax credit cuts.... the more tory mp's that end up getting mail from people saying they are going to be worse off.... the warmer their seats are going to be... politically if the lords do delay the tax credit vote on monday... you may well see a politically blockbuster debate a week tomorrow, where frank fields, who is about as respected as they come on welfare issues has a motion on tax credits which has cross party backers, that the government is going to be in huge danger of losing... and that is when you may start to see things budge..... rapidly...." tend to agree.. Rees Mogg and his tell the nasty Lords off Dave 'question' probably may only serve to stiffen a few in the upper chamber.. fair play on the Tories who can see how this issue will hit people (some of whom elected them) and have spoken up about it.. | |||
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"Labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives lied.... labour lied, the lib dems lied, the conservatives are lying..... We get the politicians we deserve... and if you have a better idea of how the country should be governed, I'm all ears. But it speaks volumes that people are turned off by the political process. " . Think green  | |||
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"i think it was interesting watching PMQ's today because i got the feeling this is the first time i have seen cameron be really on the defensive about the tax credit cuts.... the more tory mp's that end up getting mail from people saying they are going to be worse off.... the warmer their seats are going to be... politically if the lords do delay the tax credit vote on monday... you may well see a politically blockbuster debate a week tomorrow, where frank fields, who is about as respected as they come on welfare issues has a motion on tax credits which has cross party backers, that the government is going to be in huge danger of losing... and that is when you may start to see things budge..... rapidly.... tend to agree.. Rees Mogg and his tell the nasty Lords off Dave 'question' probably may only serve to stiffen a few in the upper chamber.. fair play on the Tories who can see how this issue will hit people (some of whom elected them) and have spoken up about it.. " Rees Mogg can only have his own party for not including it in the finance bill and for trying to get it thru as a seperate ad hoc notice..... they are trying to say its financial so the lords cant stop it... have to say i was really impress by what heidi allen said yesterday... i would hate to be the conservative rep on question time tomorrow because they are going to get slaughted..... amber rudd (last weeks sacificial lamb) is still probably having nightmares.... | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. If people don't have kids then the human race dies out. Might not be a bad thing tbh, but i'm going to presume we want the human race to continue. You cannot say it's ok for only the affluent to have kids, especially when we have a global economy that's been designed to mainly value mass profits and is ran unethically on many levels wen not pressured by the workers to change. The way society is now, there will always be people without jobs, always. And it's going to get worse, the way technology is advancing predicts this. I get your saying people should go through hard times sometimes because that's how life is, but for many people there will be no end to the hard times without mass pressure to change anything. A lot of change is needed right now, has been needed for decades,despite progress in certain areas.Toomany, greedy and entitled people have ruined the economy, maybe the ones who are lazy and on benefits contribute tot hat in a small way but you gotta admit the ones with the most power to immediately change anything will not change anything because it immensely benefits them not to." With a steady trickle of Immigrants comeing over here for gods Knows how long I don,t think we need Any baby booms.. | |||
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" politically if the lords do delay the tax credit vote on monday... you may well see a politically blockbuster debate a week tomorrow, where frank fields, who is about as respected as they come on welfare issues has a motion on tax credits which has cross party backers, that the government is going to be in huge danger of losing... and that is when you may start to see things budge..... rapidly...."
For the rest of you, Frank Field's view is here. Interesting that he is broadly in favour of the main thrust, just not the timing.
The idea of increasing wages and reducing tax rates is great, and thereby reducing the cost of tax credits is laudable. It's just hard to justify taking the money away before the other changes come into effect. Osborne would do well to listen to the likes of Frank Field, but when the changes do come, forced by Conservative back-benchers, and brought in by a Conservative Government, I wonder how many will thank the Tories?
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/frank-field-there-is-a-way-to-cut-tax-credits-without-hurting-the-strivers-a3094931.html | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. If people don't have kids then the human race dies out. Might not be a bad thing tbh, but i'm going to presume we want the human race to continue. You cannot say it's ok for only the affluent to have kids, especially when we have a global economy that's been designed to mainly value mass profits and is ran unethically on many levels wen not pressured by the workers to change. The way society is now, there will always be people without jobs, always. And it's going to get worse, the way technology is advancing predicts this. I get your saying people should go through hard times sometimes because that's how life is, but for many people there will be no end to the hard times without mass pressure to change anything. A lot of change is needed right now, has been needed for decades,despite progress in certain areas.Toomany, greedy and entitled people have ruined the economy, maybe the ones who are lazy and on benefits contribute tot hat in a small way but you gotta admit the ones with the most power to immediately change anything will not change anything because it immensely benefits them not to.With a steady trickle of Immigrants comeing over here for gods Knows how long I don,t think we need Any baby booms.. " . Actually, that's part of the so called problem... All industrialised countrys populations eventually fall(there not entirely sure why, busy working, no need, falling fertility)... Anyhow when you run a system which is in reality a ponzi pyramid scheme (western capitalism).. You just have to keep filling the bottom row of that pyramid, there's no alternative, the same applies to money or debt as in reality money is debt.. As we all know two guaranteed things about pyramid schemes. 1 in a world with limits they always fail... ALWAYS 2 only the people at the very top get actually rich, yes you'll move up the rows, but you'll never get to the top before it collapses from lack of bottom row fodder! The next 10to20 years will be like you've never experienced before.. That is guaranteed, no matter who you vote for now. | |||
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" With a steady trickle of Immigrants comeing over here for gods Knows how long I don,t think we need Any baby booms.. " actually.... you do, and you can thank a lot of those "immigrants" you deride.... the birth/death rate in the uk is actually just in the positive... and thats because those families have more children than the home grown population.... otherwise you'd be like germany, france, italy, spain for example....where there birth/death rate is negative... and the population is falling | |||
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" I applaud your philanthropy and I do whole heartedly hope that it doesn't turn sour for you but you cant expect people to live like that Why can't I ffs? I did. Don't have kids then if you can't afford them. Its a privilege not a duty. If people don't have kids then the human race dies out. Might not be a bad thing tbh, but i'm going to presume we want the human race to continue. You cannot say it's ok for only the affluent to have kids, especially when we have a global economy that's been designed to mainly value mass profits and is ran unethically on many levels wen not pressured by the workers to change. The way society is now, there will always be people without jobs, always. And it's going to get worse, the way technology is advancing predicts this. I get your saying people should go through hard times sometimes because that's how life is, but for many people there will be no end to the hard times without mass pressure to change anything. A lot of change is needed right now, has been needed for decades,despite progress in certain areas.Too many, greedy and entitled people have ruined the economy, maybe the ones who are lazy and on benefits contribute to that in a small way but you gotta admit the ones with the most power to immediately change anything will not change anything because it immensely benefits them not to. With a steady trickle of Immigrants comeing over here for gods Knows how long I don,t think we need Any baby booms.. " It's an aging population that's caused the over population crisis. It'll level off in about 25 years at the rate births are going so it'll be ok eventually. Just need something in place until then though. | |||
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"tax credits should be stopped as should free nursery hours for kids people should earn there way in life without begging for hand outs" What a brilliant idea, now if you can convince employers to pay wages that are realistic we can sort it all out by christmas As other posts have pointed out the problem isn't one sided | |||
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"tax credits should be stopped as should free nursery hours for kids people should earn there way in life without begging for hand outs What a brilliant idea, now if you can convince employers to pay wages that are realistic we can sort it all out by christmas As other posts have pointed out the problem isn't one sided " Basically all these arguments end up as is 'who is more worthy of a decent life'. Nobody ever does this by justifying themselves, because you can't justify yourself or anyone else, so instead they look at who is not themselves and is considered a burden. | |||
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"I'm losing £1600 from my tax credit in April. That's all my child care costs. How do they expect me to work with no childcare. Bloody ridiculous" if you live under a tory mp... go into their public surgeries (they will have one every week/couple of weeks) and make they explain to you in person 
the more you scream at them and make their life hell... the quicker you will see them talk to the people who need talking to... trust me!!! you don't see mp's move quicker than when they have angry constituants!!!! | |||
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"The present government have promised to introduce a living wage. A living wage is one that you can live off. Why is it an hourly rate then ? If you can only get a Zero hour contract job,it will hardly ever give you a "living wage" Just more of the same "look what we have done" tactics that fool some,but not all the electorate." The zero hour contract is not the evil creature people would have you believe. I've been on a casual workers contract for the past 18 months and I've worked every week, sometimes more than I should. If you're willing to work hard you won't be out of work | |||
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"Now where did I put my peer reviewed scientific paper  "Sorry but I borrowed it to check out next years interest rates | |||
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"Now where did I put my peer reviewed scientific paper "the lavvy? hope it not the shiny stuff.. | |||
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"Now where did I put my peer reviewed scientific paper
Sorry but I borrowed it to check out next years interest rates ". It will be either 0.75% or 0% I'll frack my back garden if it's anything different!... | |||
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"I love how prone people in this country are to Tory bashing... It's like they haven't woken up and realised all politicians are equally self-interested, and equally exposed to the pushes and pulls of the greater financial and social conditions of our time. Politicians will always do what they do, you can't rely on promises and ideological claims. " people are fickle hence we go from Tories, New Labour etc etc.. some will stay loyal to one ideology and others will flow like the tide as they are frightened that the other lot will do x,y or z.. hence they will bash the incumbents regardless of which lot that is.. some will even bash the Bishops but thats for another thread possibly.. | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. The following day Ed Balls attacked him for dodging the question, and 'cuts to tax credits' thereafter formed a large part of Labour's strategy, which was rejected by the electorate. The trouble with tax credits is that they became a way of massaging the unemployment figures, with a number of people (like the one on Question Time) encouraged to go 'self-employed' on jobs that make no money. They have also encouraged employers to have numbers of people on low hours and low wages as a cynical management technique. That said, I sense another Osbourne climbdown brewing, effective tax rates of around 100% never look 'compassionate' Mr ddc Happy to bail out the banks but not industry or the working poor. Absolute shower." Wasnt it labour who bailed out the banks? | |||
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"When did I say I was against a welfare state? People are good at reading between lines and making their own version of someones post. Don't confuse essential benefits for the poor with working tax credits, only a small percentage are related imo. " Dunno, I am confused. I thought you said you were against Tax credit as you thought people were living beyond their means with the money they get from it, but you are not against getting dole when you were made redundant? | |||
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" i would hate to be the conservative rep on question time tomorrow because they are going to get slaughted..... amber rudd (last weeks sacificial lamb) is still probably having nightmares.... " Well, here we go... | |||
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"This should be an offence of such gravity akin to treason. Loss of office and the ultimate penalty. Really so you would bind a government to things said m before they came to power regardless of changes in circumstance? That would lead to some pretty stupid situations where th government may be forced not to follow the most sensible course eof action. Or be forces to follow a cause/uphold an idea that has later proved to be utterly unworkable and insane CaMoron made this tax credit promise on the video six months ago. are you really trying to say he wasn't prime minister at that time or that he hadn't been prime minister for the five years previous to that? "Oh right in that case it's even more insane to class it as a crime It could be debated as fraud if it was an election promise but if it was a statement while in government then he gained nothing from the lie and so it's immaterial | |||
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.bought my kids up the same way I was and at 22 my son has his own house. | |||
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"sorry totally agree with this with him cutting tax credits. it was a good thing at the start now its just a joke. 16 hours a week if you're single, 24 hours between you if you're in a couple.at the start it was 24 hours single and 36 for a Cpl and you got a lot less money. we had 2 kids and its was hard going that's why we only had 2.At times things were so bad mum and dad bring food in .I brought up with a good work ethic worked hard got out crap council flat bought a house and paid it off this year .bought my kids up the same way I was and at 22 my son has his own house."That's nice for you, but in lots of cases these days people cannot find jobs with more than 16 hours per week, I don't think many people would be able to raise 2 children and buy a house on that now. It's bad enough in london where my OH lived in a studio flat which was tiny that. It's her £750 a month before any bills. Sadly too many people have the I'm alright jack attitude. | |||
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"the tax credits system needs looking at but to take the amount of money off people that's being quoted before the other changes come in will hit hard working people.. i thought it was these hard working people that the present Government were so keen to win over in May..? " Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. That Tory woman who says the tax cuts aren't fair still voted to cut them. | |||
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"There's a video of Cameron from the TV debates being shared by 38 Degrees today, from the TV debates where he promised no cuts would be made to tax credits. Now they're pressing ahead, cruelly cutting tax credits, which will see around 3m families losing 1,000 each from their household income.. It begs the question what else did they lie about? Like their 2010 promise of no top down reorganisation of the NHS.. They're perpetual liars, so why do people vote for them? Why do so many ignore these facts? Is it the illusion the tory propaganda machine creates that if you vote tory, somehow it makes you one of them?? You're someone who they'll look after, do you feel wealthy by voting tory? It is sad when a so called first world country pays people so poorly they need tax credits in the first place, but to take them away so ruthlessly is going to drive so many families into poverty very suddenly. There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category " . Hi. I think that you missed the third class of Conservative . Those who believe that everything that you in life has to be paid for. and that both the welfare state and NHS can only be supported if we have a string economy. Thus is pprobably why more voters voted for them that any other party in the last election .. | |||
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"I'm pretty sure he specifically dodged the question relating to tax credits, and instead promised not to cut Child Benefit. The following day Ed Balls attacked him for dodging the question, and 'cuts to tax credits' thereafter formed a large part of Labour's strategy, which was rejected by the electorate. The trouble with tax credits is that they became a way of massaging the unemployment figures, with a number of people (like the one on Question Time) encouraged to go 'self-employed' on jobs that make no money. They have also encouraged employers to have numbers of people on low hours and low wages as a cynical management technique. That said, I sense another Osbourne climbdown brewing, effective tax rates of around 100% never look 'compassionate' Mr ddc Happy to bail out the banks but not industry or the working poor. Absolute shower." . However they have done a much better job of running the country than any other party and are supported by a substantial proportion of the electorate. It is a waste of tax payers money supporting non viable industries . A lot of the bank bail out money was via loans which must be repaid to the government . The majority of the losses were borne by private shareholders and pension funds . I.e. ordinary hard working people. | |||
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"The present government have promised to introduce a living wage. A living wage is one that you can live off. Why is it an hourly rate then ? If you can only get a Zero hour contract job,it will hardly ever give you a "living wage" Just more of the same "look what we have done" tactics that fool some,but not all the electorate. The zero hour contract is not the evil creature people would have you believe. I've been on a casual workers contract for the past 18 months and I've worked every week, sometimes more than I should. If you're willing to work hard you won't be out of work" . Excellent post . I have joined various companies on a causual or temporary basis and often have had years of work from them. On occasions I have worked up to one hundred miles from home . I took on these roles and was determined to prove myself ?. Why should any company employ me unless I could prove that I was as good as or better than existing employees ?. Companies must make a profit in order to survive . They do not exist to employ people , this is secondary . Shareholders expect companies only to employ the best and most efficient people ..No one is entitled to a job , you have to prove yourself in life . | |||
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"The simple answer is never have children because at some point in your life you may not have enough money to live and may need to claim benefits. Which will automatically make you a parasite " Tax credits are what in the past was called Family Income Supplement ie a supplement to wages that were too low for a family to live on, yes there's the wood that some can't see for the trees A Supplement to low wages paid by employers | |||
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"being a political honk... it looks like the house of lords have dealt a blow to the tax credit cuts... have "in theory" for a 3 year stay of execution for them....... but interesting to see what/how osbourne gets around this now.... actually it may not end up being a good night for the government... they may end up losing a debate in the commons tonight on the so called "tampon tax" where lots of people on all sides want it abolished (there is a 5% vat rate on female sanitary products)" Brilliant. I messaged my representative about the tax credit cuts, glad they listened. | |||
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"being a political honk... it looks like the house of lords have dealt a blow to the tax credit cuts... have "in theory" for a 3 year stay of execution for them....... but interesting to see what/how osbourne gets around this now.... actually it may not end up being a good night for the government... they may end up losing a debate in the commons tonight on the so called "tampon tax" where lots of people on all sides want it abolished (there is a 5% vat rate on female sanitary products) Brilliant. I messaged my representative about the tax credit cuts, glad they listened." if you did then good for you.... and for anyone else, keep the pressure... next date to mark is thursday where there is another tax credits debate going which may give the government another black eye.... this one being co-sponsored by frank field (labour) and interesting Zac Goldsmith (conservative mp and prospective next mayor of london)..... this is has a fair amount of cross party support... but look for it now for opposition mps to use it to put the boot in... and for tory mps to use it to try and persuade osbourne to listen..... | |||
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"being a political honk... it looks like the house of lords have dealt a blow to the tax credit cuts... have "in theory" for a 3 year stay of execution for them....... but interesting to see what/how osbourne gets around this now.... actually it may not end up being a good night for the government... they may end up losing a debate in the commons tonight on the so called "tampon tax" where lots of people on all sides want it abolished (there is a 5% vat rate on female sanitary products) Brilliant. I messaged my representative about the tax credit cuts, glad they listened. if you did then good for you.... and for anyone else, keep the pressure... next date to mark is thursday where there is another tax credits debate going which may give the government another black eye.... this one being co-sponsored by frank field (labour) and interesting Zac Goldsmith (conservative mp and prospective next mayor of london)..... this is has a fair amount of cross party support... but look for it now for opposition mps to use it to put the boot in... and for tory mps to use it to try and persuade osbourne to listen....." Yeah loads of us messaged them. | |||
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"Im really worried about the tax credit cuts, im a single mum with 2 kids, not a well paid job, even tho I work full time... I dont know how I will cope financially "David Cameron said 'we're all in this together'. I'm sure he is feeling as bad about making low paid people even poorer as you are.
3 million people and more to come will be in a similar situation.
If you read back some threads about conservative policy and economics, you'll see some real gloating in the forum about how good it is for everyone that benefits are being cut.
The Conservatives are 'conserving'. | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. " | |||
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" There are two types of conservative; millionaires and the misguided. To find out which one you are, look in your wallet... Unfortunately the vast majority fall into the latter category Are there? Whats the problem with cutting tax creditsanyway. Im entitled to jack, I don't see why couples who are working are given tax credits because they can't afford to raise the children they decided to have. ". Well said. You took the words from my mouth | |||
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