FabSwingers.com forum: Bringing Children Up without Religion

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't really like Bustle and tend not to agree with most of their articles.

I'm less nationalist (same for my kids), and tend to agree it is possible the more liberal attitude of society is down to less people being religious.

One thing i do know is that many, but not all, religious people tend to not actually study the bible. They take the bible literally BUT from some other persons view point and not their own, and not in too much detail, especially if what they're reading tends to back up their own biases.

If you look into religion on a much deeper lever, with intelligent religious people helping you along the way, then religion is a lot different to the way the majority of people use it and represent it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting but hardly surprising.

There is no place for religion in todays society.

Take the 300 people crushed to death recently at the haaj

Pilgrimage.

Fucking queuing up to chuck small rocks at a big one.

Their religious values disappeared and their own personal needs and wants took over.

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

I've not been christened, I don't believe in religion and I think I've turned out okay. I didn't read the article... I don't feel I need to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I feel the info and results of the 'experiment' have been way too generalised as well. It looks like an atheist is trying to put religion in a bad light and acting like atheists all treat others the way they want to be treated, this is rarely so. It's rare any type of person will not self preserve to some degree.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

I'm Catholic and have read the Bible. For me Christianity is about having love, acceptance and respect for ALL people regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. It isn't about being judgmental about sin or hating.

The Old Testament is very much about the superiority of God, laws and about waging war against other cultures. The New Testament is all about forgiveness, justice and understanding which forms the basis of Christianity.

Unfortunately too many have used certain parts of both the Koran (Islam is a religion which promotes peace and understanding) and Bible to inflict misery, persecution and violence on others who do not conform to their beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research"
doesn't surprise me really they are suppressed obviously depending on which religion and the persons sex ,I am totally religion free and I feel "epic"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I disagree. Although I was never a devout bible basher I did a little Sunday school and we went to church on a few occasions, especially Christmas. Being young I just enjoyed the big Christmas tree and singing carols, eating mince pies and hot chocolate!! But looking back I learnt life lessons, and had fun. Not a bad thing at all.

Of course you don't need Religion to do that but it was available and it worked for me. Especially Sunday School. As I had a Sunday roast there, back home for Sunday roast, then sneak off to Uncle Ernies down the road for Sunday roast leftovers!! Halcyon days!

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By *irtyGirlWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"For me BEING HUMAN is about having love, acceptance and respect for ALL people regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. It isn't about being judgmental about sin or hating. "

Sorry to chop up your post but this covers it for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My son has been raised not to believe in nonsense. He's turning out just fine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was brought up with a religion and went to religious school. I feel I benefited from it, and would do the same with my children if I had any. I don't think this makes me any better or worse than someone who chooses to raise children outside any kind of religious faith.

Seems a pointless article, unless it's trying to promote some kind of secular agenda. No one is going to suddenly change their mind about how to raise their children because a survey told them to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research"

And in other news confirmation bias strikes again, allowing a study to support a point of view, which is different to other studies which supports the other point of view.

Headline written, facts ignored and job done.

Confirmation Bias. Keeping the Internet Alive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't need religion, children will be more "free" by not following a set path of religion.

I am a non believer

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it is more important to teach kids right from wrong, too many people do not. That does not mean I am against religion I have my own beleiefs..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

There are no 'characteristic traits' of religious people. Or are those who questioned it for themselves and decided to stay within a faith just vetoed because they questioned and, in your view, got it wrong?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research

And in other news confirmation bias strikes again, allowing a study to support a point of view, which is different to other studies which supports the other point of view.

Headline written, facts ignored and job done.

Confirmation Bias. Keeping the Internet Alive. "

They studied different children from different upbringing and worked on the findings,

I fail to see how your post I'd relevant. As I said this is about how we present it to kids not peoples personal belief structure

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think it is more important to teach kids right from wrong, too many people do not. That does not mean I am against religion I have my own beleiefs..

this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same could be for politics and other peoples ideals around you. And dependent on how they present these things to you can affect how much you're likely to believe them, despite seeing things to the contradictory around you.

The media is also not so strong an influence any more, people aren't as gullible or trusting and want facts or proper information.

I do wonder how we got to this, highly intelligent, stage of evolvement? Or if we were always this way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

You have got to be shitting me?

There are definitely characteristic traits of religious people.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

My parents where religious, I wasn't christened, my son wasn't, however I also belief that he has/had every right to make his own decisions.

When he was about 8 he decided he wanted to be christened, apparently he was the only one in the class that hadn't been, I offered to take him to Sunday school and to look at all different religions, he had no interest just had wanted to be like everyone else

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would you be able to guess how I was brought up?

Religious or non-religious?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Somehow good parents can sometimes raise bad children and bad parents can raise good children.

Religion has very little to do with most of the society we live in in the UK, but being excluded by your peer group as they all attend x church would be hard on children, so in those countries it's much better to fit in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

You have got to be shitting me?

There are definitely characteristic traits of religious people.

What are they then? You think there are defining characteristics which those billions of people around the world all share?

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?"
what kind of school does she go to? By that I mean is it a little rural school or a city school, a religious school

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't have children but when I do I do not intend to christen them nor do I intend to force religion on them. I feel religion causes so much upset in the world that we are better off without it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?"

Ask her why she thinks/agrees with what was said. Get her to question things for herself by prompting her to do that.

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

I'm a non-practising Catholic. The boys are Christened but not Catholic (this was a compromise). They go to non-religious schools but study RE & cover all religions.

They visit mosques, temples & churches & various religious representatives come into school to speak & take assemblies.

I ignore any religious clap trap but do listen to & question their views as I find them amusing.

My youngest came home from school claiming he can't be a Muslim as they don't eat during daylight & he likes eating ham & gammon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

You have got to be shitting me?

There are definitely characteristic traits of religious people.

What are they then? You think there are defining characteristics which those billions of people around the world all share?"

No thanks hunny, I don't fancy another 12 rounder.

My opinions are mine. I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

All I see is religion causing harm around the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

You have got to be shitting me?

There are definitely characteristic traits of religious people.

What are they then? You think there are defining characteristics which those billions of people around the world all share?

No thanks hunny, I don't fancy another 12 rounder.

My opinions are mine. I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

All I see is religion causing harm around the world.

"Another" 12 rounder? What did I miss? Fair enough, I was just interested in what you feel the characteristics of religious people are. I was going to see if I had them.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

My daughter has had no religion in her upbringing apart from what she had to be taught at school. She's not even been christened.

Of course, I think she's awesome.

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By *ondonpride69Couple
over a year ago

Blackpool

The only time I will think about religion is on my death bed. I have far better things to do with my life than listen to is there, isn't there, this god is greater than your god. He can judge me then. Thats if there is a god..... Is there.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think the cognitive dissonance required to be religious (in other words blind faith) is a healthy thing to teach kids.

I much prefer to explain logic, reason, science and values. Let them grow up to become questioning adults with critical judgement.

Not much good comes from religion in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

None of my children were raised in a religious way though they all went to CofE schools.

Interestingly the eldest is a Buddhist. I feel quite strongly that children should have quality information and then make their own decisions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would you be able to guess how I was brought up?

Religious or non-religious?"

You were schooled by Nuns!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From what I can see you don't miss much.

I'm surprised you value my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really miss Christopher Hitchens, whether you sided with him or not, he certainly made people think.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Agree about bustle was new to me so did a bit of googling and found references on other sites so took it at face value,

this is not about peoples personal belief sets though,

This is about how we present it t children,

Encouraging them to find their own path has to be the better option

option

a psychometric test will ask for religious influence as an indication of people who will accept without questioning and other characteristic traits that could work against you

You have got to be shitting me?

There are definitely characteristic traits of religious people.

What are they then? You think there are defining characteristics which those billions of people around the world all share?"

Apologies for the confusion I didn't make psychometric tests, just merely quoted on how they work,

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?what kind of school does she go to? By that I mean is it a little rural school or a city school, a religious school"

It's a little rural school - I've twice asked to see the teacher about this and had no response.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only time I will think about religion is on my death bed. I have far better things to do with my life than listen to is there, isn't there, this god is greater than your god. He can judge me then. Thats if there is a god..... Is there.....

If you look at the meaning of Deity then there could be a God, and many people in society has definitely accepted that divinity is a real thing.

You need to start breaking down what things mean to more understand what they are and see if they apply or not to your reasoning, and to those around you.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"None of my children were raised in a religious way though they all went to CofE schools.

Interestingly the eldest is a Buddhist. I feel quite strongly that children should have quality information and then make their own decisions."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a non-practising Catholic. The boys are Christened but not Catholic (this was a compromise). They go to non-religious schools but study RE & cover all religions.

They visit mosques, temples & churches & various religious representatives come into school to speak & take assemblies.

I ignore any religious clap trap but do listen to & question their views as I find them amusing.

My youngest came home from school claiming he can't be a Muslim as they don't eat during daylight & he likes eating ham & gammon.

I had all that from my Catholic school, as well as approximately a third of the pupils being Muslim, Hindu and Sikh which was way in excess of the mix there would have been at the non-religious schools in the city. I think it's a common misconception that faith schools only educate pupils about their own faith, and doesn't reflect my experience at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would you be able to guess how I was brought up?

Religious or non-religious?"
pitstop you were brought up in a Tibetan monastery and learned the art of lowquando which you now practice whenever you go to clubs

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?what kind of school does she go to? By that I mean is it a little rural school or a city school, a religious school

It's a little rural school - I've twice asked to see the teacher about this and had no response. "
that's exactly what I was guessing, I had it the other way round my son went to full time nursery attached to a large primary school, he was the only white British in the whole of the buildings, no mention of the word Christmas or Easter which I wasn't happy about as all the Muslim and siek festivals they made big occasions a about, then when we moved back to here it was a white middle-class school with no ethnic minorities. But for some reason I'd got it into my head that it was now part of the curriculum to learn about different religions but I couldmofmdremed that up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just learned a new phrase

Cognitive dissonance

Every days a school day on fab

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not usually the teachings of a major religion that impede a child or cause trouble in the world. It is usually people who claim to follow a religion but ignore the real message. If their religion did not exist, they would still be problematic.

If, and I do say if, children brought up in non-religious backgrounds do better on the whole then that may be explained by many factors. One of those factors may be an open-mindedness on the part of the parents.

I was lucky. My parents were atheist on one side and agnostic on the other but they were more than happy for me to be exposed to religious concepts.

I am fairly sure that telling your child that God exists in one particular form and religion is no more damaging than telling your child that God does not exist at all.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It's strange to be that state sanctioned indoctrination isn't labelled as such.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research

And in other news confirmation bias strikes again, allowing a study to support a point of view, which is different to other studies which supports the other point of view.

Headline written, facts ignored and job done.

Confirmation Bias. Keeping the Internet Alive.

They studied different children from different upbringing and worked on the findings,

I fail to see how your post I'd relevant. As I said this is about how we present it to kids not peoples personal belief structure "

Relevance of my thread:

A study has been performed.

The people whose pet theory is supported by the study will support it and advertise it.

Next week another study is performed. Whoever's pet theory is supported by the study will support it.

Etc.

Nothing new is learned, nobody is convinced about anything new, the Internet and its commentators just have a new latest study to argue about.

This is confirmation bias. When people pick and choose whatever supports their existing views.

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?what kind of school does she go to? By that I mean is it a little rural school or a city school, a religious school

It's a little rural school - I've twice asked to see the teacher about this and had no response. that's exactly what I was guessing, I had it the other way round my son went to full time nursery attached to a large primary school, he was the only white British in the whole of the buildings, no mention of the word Christmas or Easter which I wasn't happy about as all the Muslim and siek festivals they made big occasions a about, then when we moved back to here it was a white middle-class school with no ethnic minorities. But for some reason I'd got it into my head that it was now part of the curriculum to learn about different religions but I couldmofmdremed that up"

Is what I wanted to to talk to them about. There *is* a place for religion on the curriculum - but taught alongside other religions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We go family run nights run by the church my youngest loves it and it is not rammed down our throats. It is good to learn about religion and cultures but should be for everyone and we should be able to have nativities at schools x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those of you who seem to think that religion has not part in today's society and because you don't believe in religion that it has no effect on you ....you're only fooling yourself half of the laws and social norms today in this and other societies around the world came from religion without it the world would be a far worst place to live and belive it or not most you see in the middle east is not started because of religion they are started because one group of people have all the money and the others have non

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Those of you who seem to think that religion has not part in today's society and because you don't believe in religion that it has no effect on you ....you're only fooling yourself half of the laws and social norms today in this and other societies around the world came from religion without it the world would be a far worst place to live and belive it or not most you see in the middle east is not started because of religion they are started because one group of people have all the money and the others have non "

What are you talking about?

Humankind had morals, laws and social norms long before the establishment of Christianity.

Laws and social norms didn't come about through people rationally evaluating them. The supreme authority of the church imposed them.

Lets not forget how many of those same laws and social norms have been done away with and are now considered ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me BEING HUMAN is about having love, acceptance and respect for ALL people regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. It isn't about being judgmental about sin or hating.

Sorry to chop up your post but this covers it for me.

ditto me -

my kids used to go to sunday school though and was a social thing more than a religious time - vicar once asked the sunday school kids what made the day special - my son said roast dinner-

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I upset my family by refusing to have my daughter christened. I would rather she grow up as a good person than a bad Christian. However if she makes a considered adult choice she wants to follow one faith or another I will fully support her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?what kind of school does she go to? By that I mean is it a little rural school or a city school, a religious school

Is what I wanted to to talk to them about. There *is* a place for religion on the curriculum - but taught alongside other religions. "
phone them and make an appointment. do they not have parents evenings? This is what they should be doing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Children turn out ok after not being brought up with lies and out of date nonsense.....who'd of thought it eh?

Let them learn to question things and strive to find answers to the questions they have, not believe that things are true because a man in the sky says so.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Children turn out ok after not being brought up with lies and out of date nonsense.....who'd of thought it eh?

Let them learn to question things and strive to find answers to the questions they have, not believe that things are true because a man in the sky says so.

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

"I am fighting a running battle with my daughter's school about this. I'm a 3rd generation atheist and when my daughter comes home spouting claptrap about:

"God knows everything you do" or "God sees everything you do"

It gets my goat.

I've been trying to introduce the concept of other religions, for a start, and to gently prod my daughter in to not necessarily accepting everything handed down by some well-meaning adult.

But it is tricky.

Any ideas?"

Email the governors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heaven help us all (Stevie)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Children turn out ok after not being brought up with lies and out of date nonsense.....who'd of thought it eh?

Let them learn to question things and strive to find answers to the questions they have, not believe that things are true because a man in the sky says so."

My int is totally reaguige'ed

Do those lies extend to Father Christmas? pretty sure he is also fictional. But would never have told my children that, also bought them 25th December presents, though neither I nor their mother while she was alive were ever religious, but do believe that children need to be allowed some magic, there is plenty enough truth when they have grown up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Children turn out ok after not being brought up with lies and out of date nonsense.....who'd of thought it eh?

Let them learn to question things and strive to find answers to the questions they have, not believe that things are true because a man in the sky says so.

My int is totally reaguige'ed

Of course I'm not saying take away Christmas. Christmas has been totally hijacked anyway and I don't think the majority celebrate it as a religious event these days, shops are already stocking Christmas gear....which really winds be up considering it's still September.

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

"I feel the info and results of the 'experiment' have been way too generalised as well. It looks like an atheist is trying to put religion in a bad light and acting like atheists all treat others the way they want to be treated, this is rarely so. It's rare any type of person will not self preserve to some degree."

Atheists don't need to put religion in a bad light. Guess why?

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Forcing youg children to partake in religious practices is nothing more or less than abuse.

This still goes on and particularly in some mosques where children are beaten and screamed at if they cannot recite their verses verbatim.

And FGM? I would ***** the people who do that to young girls.

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By *ary baileyCouple
over a year ago

basildon

"I've not been christened, I don't believe in religion and I think I've turned out okay. I didn't read the article... I don't feel I need to.

"
second this

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research

And in other news confirmation bias strikes again, allowing a study to support a point of view, which is different to other studies which supports the other point of view.

Headline written, facts ignored and job done.

Confirmation Bias. Keeping the Internet Alive.

They studied different children from different upbringing and worked on the findings,

I fail to see how your post I'd relevant. As I said this is about how we present it to kids not peoples personal belief structure "

The only correct way to present religion to kids is the way their parents want it presented to them.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Not read the study but I'm rather against indoctrination of children with religion. It's something they can learn about if they choose to, once more mature.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you met an adult (who has no special needs and is in all other ways sane rational and normal) who believed in Father Christmas and the Tooth fairy would you think of them deluded!

So when I come across people who "claim" not only to believe in an all powerful God but the way "they" believe is the only way you can "talk to him" as deluded and probably compensating for some other mental problem they have.

Faith in the real world is fine to a point below blind optimism but faith with religion is completely blind irrational and one of the corner stones of mans division between man.

Man made God and religion not the other way around.

To "indoctrinate" a child with this complete and utter bollocks is as bad as any indoctrination of any complete bollocks AND it's proven to be dangerous complete bollocks!

Some religions demean women and make them second class humans or in some cases "property" to be used and abused by men.

All religions seem to be run by power mad sex obsessed or rather repressed male perverts who talk complete "mumbo jumbo" and want respect for it!!!

Does that answer if kids should be taught religion for anyone???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Forcing youg children to partake in religious practices is nothing more or less than abuse.

This still goes on and particularly in some mosques where children are beaten and screamed at if they cannot recite their verses verbatim.

And FGM? I would ***** the people who do that to young girls."

Can't agree more and in Sheffield where doctors have been proven to assist in FGM there has only been ONE prosecution due to the Police being terrified of being accused of Racism.

Same in Rotherham with the massive grooming scandal and the 1400 children claimed is not even the tip of the iceberg!

The Church both Catholic and Protestant has covered up child sexual abuse of the worst kind and still do.

All the mainstream religions are run and ruled by misogynist old farts including Buddhism!

Christians would call us of us sinners who will burn in hell.Then they would try and ruin our sex lives by banning orgasms!

Muslims would burn us now and cut out the Devil and death by natural causes! Jews would throw out any Jew involved in the swing scene which is condemning them to a life of solitude and excommunication from God!

Who want's to teach their children this utter horseshit?!!

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By *opsy RogersWoman
over a year ago

London

Religion is a completely ignored and non-issue in my family, it plays no part in our lives at all.

My son converted to Judaism in his twenties.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know why I still get surprised by this, but the level of vitriol and ridicule I read towards people who have a religious faith on here far exceeds anything I've seen the other way round.

Perhaps take your own advice and display a bit of tolerance and open-mindedness.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research"

Except if you look at the studies instead of the biased article you will see the studies do not agree with the headline.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course I'm not saying take away Christmas. Christmas has been totally hijacked anyway and I don't think the majority celebrate it as a religious event these days, shops are already stocking Christmas gear....which really winds be up considering it's still September. "

Totally agree that Christmas should still be celebrated in this Christian country, and Father Christmas is a fun lie to tell our children.

But that is at odds with the religion haters who don't want their children to fit in to a society that follows lie A but are quite happy to perpetrate lie B... people are funny

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't really like Bustle and tend not to agree with most of their articles.

I'm less nationalist (same for my kids), and tend to agree it is possible the more liberal attitude of society is down to less people being religious.

I'd agree with the above there is a lot miss placed in personal inturprtaio not lost in translation so to speak but each to there own

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research

Except if you look at the studies instead of the biased article you will see the studies do not agree with the headline."

This is true too depends on personal view point most study's will find a way to come to the conclusion they want .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This should be true for all children. Parents lying to children is surely one of the worse things possible.

There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in the world for the existence of a god ..... Let's stop peddling these lies.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"This should be true for all children. Parents lying to children is surely one of the worse things possible.

There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in the world for the existence of a god ..... Let's stop peddling these lies."

It depends what you think God is. I think the bit in Genesis about God creating man in his own image should be reversed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It depends what you think God is. I think the bit in Genesis about God creating man in his own image should be reversed."

Great call. I despise religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This should be true for all children. Parents lying to children is surely one of the worse things possible.

There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in the world for the existence of a god ..... Let's stop peddling these lies."

Yet again I ask if you let your children believe in Santa... not a shred of evidence so cancel Christmas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet again I ask if you let your children believe in Santa... not a shred of evidence so cancel Christmas

The difference being Santa's fun and kids stop believing when they are still kids, why there is a requirement for an adult Santa In the form of god is beyond me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also Santa doesnt inspire people to kill other people that believe in a different Santa, he don't ask for praise either and there's no punishment of burning for deciding not to believe.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Also Santa doesnt inspire people to kill other people that believe in a different Santa, he don't ask for praise either and there's no punishment of burning for deciding not to believe. "

Don't confuse God and religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let's have a worldwide experiment. Nobody mention God(s) to any child born between now and their sixteenth birthday. Teach them to only believe what there is evidence for. Then see how many have come to the conclusion there is a God. I'm guessing it will be a very small minority.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Let's have a worldwide experiment. Nobody mention God(s) to any child born between now and their sixteenth birthday. Teach them to only believe what there is evidence for. Then see how many have come to the conclusion there is a God. I'm guessing it will be a very small minority."

I'm not sure. I think that human beings have a need to believe that there is a purpose to life and continuation of the species just isn't enough. If God doesn't exist human beings must have made him up and i think they would do so again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello Priapus,

yes, I agree. Young children can't differentiate between a fact based subject and a belief based subject when it's taught at an early age. It's all fact to them and accept what they are taught. Once they learn to make their own judgement is time enough.

Alec

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not so easy to do, should I have told my daughter at 3 years old her mother was dead and her corpse was rotting away end of. Or the lie I told her that her mother was in heaven and still loves her very much and was watching over her?

The lie made the child happier and she could grow up and not believe it, but at least she had grown up by then.

Same as the Christmas lie, it was for fun and an easy excuse for a party but they grew up, and the lie's change accordingly.

The god lie helps many to cope with life and death, it makes more people happy than it kills, so where is the harm? agreed the fanatics are a pain, but if it wasn't god it would be the right colour for plasticine or something else to kill over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is an interesting,

studies have been undertaken and shown that children brought up free of religous influence demonstrate improved personality charactistics.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/62411-raising-children-without-religion-may-be-a-better-alternative-suggests-new-research"

Study also shows that if you're religious you are unknowingly brainwashed

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Not so easy to do, should I have told my daughter at 3 years old her mother was dead and her corpse was rotting away end of. Or the lie I told her that her mother was in heaven and still loves her very much and was watching over her?

The lie made the child happier and she could grow up and not believe it, but at least she had grown up by then.

Same as the Christmas lie, it was for fun and an easy excuse for a party but they grew up, and the lie's change accordingly.

I agree with you on that. Humans (most of them) have a need for a deity and I think you've illustrated that quite well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The lie made the child happier and she could grow up and not believe it, but at least she had grown up by then.

Same as the Christmas lie, it was for fun and an easy excuse for a party but they grew up, and the lie's change accordingly.

Personally I think it's a case of a parent taking the easy way out and wording it badly. I'm not sure why you would describe anyone who has passed away as a rotting corpse to a child. That's just scary and unnecessary whether you believe in a beardy dude in the sky or not.

I'm raising a son with no religion but I also intend on teaching him about the different religions out there. As he grows I will make it clear that I don't believe but he will be free to make his own choice. I'm not going to brain wash him with my beliefs, Instead I will hopefully have a child who is more intelligent than most adults when it comes to this topic and he can make his own choice based own his personal feeling.

As far as Santa goes, he's real right...right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

rotting corpse was just an extreme example of raw truth. but if I worded it badly, how would you have dealt with it? hope you never have to of course, but I was suddenly in a situation and fell back on a common lie to assist me in helping both kids through it despite no religion in our home.

And yes of course Santa is real... else who ate all the pies....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me BEING HUMAN is about having love, acceptance and respect for ALL people regardless of gender, race, sexuality etc. It isn't about being judgmental about sin or hating.

Sorry to chop up your post but this covers it for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think they need to believe in a God just to explain the unexplainable. God is a cop out when you can't answer a question or have just not got the energy or wherewithal to try.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I don't think they need to believe in a God just to explain the unexplainable. God is a cop out when you can't answer a question or have just not got the energy or wherewithal to try."

Yes I agree we all have a need to have the inexplicable explained but I think we will invent something and call it God then blame the inexplicable on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think they need to believe in a God just to explain the unexplainable. God is a cop out when you can't answer a question or have just not got the energy or wherewithal to try."

Very well said. This isn't meant as an insult or personal attack on anyone but I do shake my head a little when I hear people preach. When you sit down with then and try to explain some of the glaring holes in the bible for example you can see them go glassy eyed. Some people haven't got the inner strength to believe they hold the key to their own destiny so it's only natural to cling onto the next big thing which in this case happens to be an imaginary white man who lived in Saudi Arabia 2000 years ago who's best mate had an English name Peter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so it's only natural to cling onto the next big thing which in this case happens to be an imaginary white man who lived in Saudi Arabia 2000 years ago who's best mate had an English name Peter

Think they me when the out of place white dude, was on his holidays in Romford, that explains the English name

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I don't know why I still get surprised by this, but the level of vitriol and ridicule I read towards people who have a religious faith on here far exceeds anything I've seen the other way round.

Perhaps take your own advice and display a bit of tolerance and open-mindedness. "

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Definite lack of tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs on this thread.

The really sad thing about it is that it's not religion in its self that starts wars but more normally intolerance.

I still get shocked by some of the intolerance shown by some on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not intolerant of peoples beliefs. I'm just puzzled as to why they have them.

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

"I don't know why I still get surprised by this, but the level of vitriol and ridicule I read towards people who have a religious faith on here far exceeds anything I've seen the other way round.

Perhaps take your own advice and display a bit of tolerance and open-mindedness.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Definite lack of tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs on this thread.

The really sad thing about it is that it's not religion in its self that starts wars but more normally intolerance.

I still get shocked by some of the intolerance shown by some on here."

Yes, what great examples of tolerance we've seen in recent times from religious groups and various fundamentalists. Need they be listed?

The vitriol expressed is just not on here it is nationwide nay worldwide.

Many people now openly show their distaste for the murder and mutilation that goes on in the name of YOUR religions.

And yet faith leaders stand up and say they condemn, but the majority who don't stay silent.

Religion is a disease that eats away at humanity by setting one group of believers against another who believe something the same but different??? wtf.

As Atheists there is a standing order death threat hanging over us for daring not to believe, in 2015 FFS?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Frank Zappa summed it up well in his album "you are what you is".

The tracks " the meek shal inherit nothing" "dumb all over" and "heavenly bank account".

Great tunes too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This should be true for all children. Parents lying to children is surely one of the worse things possible.

There is not a shred of evidence anywhere in the world for the existence of a god ..... Let's stop peddling these lies.

Yet again I ask if you let your children believe in Santa... not a shred of evidence so cancel Christmas

"
.

Christmas festivals primarily were started by the Romans, they got the idea of tagging there new traditions onto the existing countries festivals, the celts had the festivals of harvest, winter spring and summer, the Romans just annexed there new festivals of Christmas and Easter onto the existing ones eventually replacing them, it was nothing new there'd done it before in many other conquered countries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't know why I still get surprised by this, but the level of vitriol and ridicule I read towards people who have a religious faith on here far exceeds anything I've seen the other way round.

Perhaps take your own advice and display a bit of tolerance and open-mindedness.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Definite lack of tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs on this thread.

The really sad thing about it is that it's not religion in its self that starts wars but more normally intolerance.

I still get shocked by some of the intolerance shown by some on here."
.

You think that's bad!

You wanna actually try and mention scientifically proven shit like climate change...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The lie made the child happier and she could grow up and not believe it, but at least she had grown up by then.

Same as the Christmas lie, it was for fun and an easy excuse for a party but they grew up, and the lie's change accordingly.

"
.

Natures a marvellous thing to view but a terrible thing to be part of.

We all pay for life with death and a childs ability to comprehend it should not be confused with a parents reaction to shelter them from it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't know why I still get surprised by this, but the level of vitriol and ridicule I read towards people who have a religious faith on here far exceeds anything I've seen the other way round.

Perhaps take your own advice and display a bit of tolerance and open-mindedness.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Definite lack of tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs on this thread.

The really sad thing about it is that it's not religion in its self that starts wars but more normally intolerance.

I still get shocked by some of the intolerance shown by some on here."

Its a discussion about the teaching of children not an attack on any individual beliefs

Does appear but it has been taken as a challenge to personal beleifs and discredited outright in some cases,(open statement not direct at you or Ruby)

Maybe that is an indication of the potential issue with raising kids through religious influence only,

It has been answered and it's so true, let them find their own way, show them the counter and the for let them question and give them the ability to evaluate based on all available facts rather governed by emotion to a single influence

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I don't think they need to believe in a God just to explain the unexplainable. God is a cop out when you can't answer a question or have just not got the energy or wherewithal to try.

And this is the real problem when it comes to talking about religion. People, on both sides speak mostly from a position of total ignorance.

There is more historical evidence for the existence of the person who we know as Jesus Christ than there is of any other historical figure from around that time. To argue that he didn't exist would be like arguing that Julius Caesar didn't exist (a person for whom there is far less historical proof).

I'm not arguing that there is proof that the character was a god, the son of God or anything else, just that it defies sense to try and claim, with so much unbiased evidence of the existence of the person, that he did not.

The religious argument is not about whether a person, who became known as Christ, existed or not but whether that person was in fact the Christ, a god and/or the Son of God.

And just for the record, there is even more evidence for the existence of Mohammed. Again it's not a question of whether he existed or not but as to whether he was a prophet from God and/or if he wad/is the last prophet.

Some seem to think that those who believe in gods, a god or God without clear definite proof are delusional, maybe they are correct, but to believe that historical characters never existed, when there is unbiased proof that they did, seems to me to be beyond delusional.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ill be bringing my kids up without religion, if they turn to it themselves fair enough but i wont be pushing them towards it.

lets face it religion is the shitstain of the world, causes nothing but grief and prejudice.