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VW / VAG really so bad?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Have VW really been so bad by producing a system that ensures that it complies with the EPA testing?

The tests require that a vehicle has certain emissions under test conditions, they did that.

Road users and vehicle manufacturers come in for a lot 'stick' from governments with taxes, tests, ever tightening controls, etc. as they are an easy target as they are often seen as having disposable income and can be easily used to deflect from other areas of pollution or loss of other income (e.g. tax avoidance by very wealthy companies and individuals) that governments don't want to try and address.

I say this all tongue in cheek, but to me there are a lot of things more worthy of news and our concerns than one car manufacturer being caught out (pretty sure more will follow) for cheating a system that was so flawed to allow this to go undetected for so long.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like you said Neil I'm sure they won't be the only ones

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure that most independent garages will "overlook" emissions testing on the MOT.

I'm heavily into the modified car scene and a lot of the cars lately are VAG cars, usually lowered on a set of BBS and remapped, decatted, DPF delete etc. simply because you get a lot from a diesel tune up than a petrol.

How do you think they get through an MOT? It's all fiddled

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, it's fraud.

The car should comply with the regulations AT ALL TIMES not just when being tested.

VAG have been lying for years, they regularly give members of the press more highly tunes versions of their cars to gain better reviews. They even did it with the Veyron Super Sport.

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By *ohnaronMan
over a year ago

london

Mine was ok in the day but had bad nocturnal emissions

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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago

Altrincham


"Have VW really been so bad by producing a system that ensures that it complies with the EPA testing?

The tests require that a vehicle has certain emissions under test conditions, they did that.

Road users and vehicle manufacturers come in for a lot 'stick' from governments with taxes, tests, ever tightening controls, etc. as they are an easy target as they are often seen as having disposable income and can be easily used to deflect from other areas of pollution or loss of other income (e.g. tax avoidance by very wealthy companies and individuals) that governments don't want to try and address.

I say this all tongue in cheek, but to me there are a lot of things more worthy of news and our concerns than one car manufacturer being caught out (pretty sure more will follow) for cheating a system that was so flawed to allow this to go undetected for so long."

Whichever way one looks at it, it's still false advertising.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm sure that most independent garages will "overlook" emissions testing on the MOT.

I'm heavily into the modified car scene and a lot of the cars lately are VAG cars, usually lowered on a set of BBS and remapped, decatted, DPF delete etc. simply because you get a lot from a diesel tune up than a petrol.

How do you think they get through an MOT? It's all fiddled "

There's loopholes to be exploited in the MOT, for instance the DPF part of the test is just a visual inspection, it doesn't mean it's not been cored and deletes from the map. I've seen plenty of cars perform better on the emissions test without them. Mine is significantly better without the EGR valve and swirl flaps.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

It's a rum procedure.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Vorche sprung dirt technique ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yeah, VAG lie, so do Ford, etc.

The salesman swore that the Fiesta 1.0 125 Ecoboost that he was selling to us would easily get 65mpg. When it went in for it's first service and we complained (just for the craic) that it was only getting about 45mpg, which was worse than the 1.9 diesel Polo it replaced the reply was 'yes, that's normal mpg, not test or sales mpg'.

We went into the deal knowing that it was bullshit, do you think that government agencies are stupid enough to think differently? An independant test was published so they had to act, simple.

I'm not going to pretend to be on a higher moral ground as I spent years re-mapping engines and resetting flash counters, changing ecu calibrations and responses, etc. so that dealer diagnostics wouldn't pick up on the remaps and affect warranties, etc. If anyone had actually driven the cars then it would have been pretty obvious though, even made some Mk4 Golf GTi's perform like an actual GTi and not a shopping trolley.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah, VAG lie, so do Ford, etc.

The salesman swore that the Fiesta 1.0 125 Ecoboost that he was selling to us would easily get 65mpg. When it went in for it's first service and we complained (just for the craic) that it was only getting about 45mpg, which was worse than the 1.9 diesel Polo it replaced the reply was 'yes, that's normal mpg, not test or sales mpg'.

We went into the deal knowing that it was bullshit, do you think that government agencies are stupid enough to think differently? An independant test was published so they had to act, simple.

I'm not going to pretend to be on a higher moral ground as I spent years re-mapping engines and resetting flash counters, changing ecu calibrations and responses, etc. so that dealer diagnostics wouldn't pick up on the remaps and affect warranties, etc. If anyone had actually driven the cars then it would have been pretty obvious though, even made some Mk4 Golf GTi's perform like an actual GTi and not a shopping trolley. "

The published economy figures are achievable but ONLY if you drive the exact route under the exact conditions that the test mule drove to get the figures. Usually it's less than 10 miles in absolutely optimal conditions. The figures are usually worth fuck all as you said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me"

*potential $18bn that should say

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me

*potential $18bn that should say "

A little over a years profit for the group, wonder what concessions they would get over the next decade or so if the fine sticks?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me

*potential $18bn that should say

A little over a years profit for the group, wonder what concessions they would get over the next decade or so if the fine sticks?"

But that's just in the US marketplace. Once the rest of the world fines them it'll have a huge impact. Their stock price plummeted today and it's only going to get worse.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me

*potential $18bn that should say

A little over a years profit for the group, wonder what concessions they would get over the next decade or so if the fine sticks?

But that's just in the US marketplace. Once the rest of the world fines them it'll have a huge impact. Their stock price plummeted today and it's only going to get worse."

True, but they will have had to have broken laws/regulations in other countries and be pursued for it.

There'll be a settlement for a lot less and it will all be forgotten about as quickly as it was highlighted. It doesn't make financial/tax sense to the governments to destroy VAG, business is business, right or wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A recent MIT study found that around 200,000 people die early from air pollution in America!

Bearing that in mind, Californias geographical problems with smog, that diesels create way more dangerous pollution than other fuels and that the original emissions that vw fraudulently bypassed are intended to alleviate some of the problems.... Then yes I'd say it's a big story of an international company blatantly lieing and being devious to the largest degree

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington


"An $18bn fine feels quite newsworthy to me

*potential $18bn that should say

A little over a years profit for the group, wonder what concessions they would get over the next decade or so if the fine sticks?

But that's just in the US marketplace. Once the rest of the world fines them it'll have a huge impact. Their stock price plummeted today and it's only going to get worse.

True, but they will have had to have broken laws/regulations in other countries and be pursued for it.

There'll be a settlement for a lot less and it will all be forgotten about as quickly as it was highlighted. It doesn't make financial/tax sense to the governments to destroy VAG, business is business, right or wrong. "

it makes sense to the us goverment who fined toyota a billion and gm a billion after recall cover up that killed 84.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The fine is always payed by the people anyhow, Christ they've fined the banks 100 billon in the last 8 years!

Who do you think payed it.. Not the cheif executives that's for sure, they all walked away with nice fat pensions!

Predictions?

Nobody will do time, there'll pay a big fine that they can afford, there'll spend some more billions on really good pr and 200,000 more people will die early next year!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They broke the law they should pay the consequence I'm tired of seeing big businesses get away with stuff the average man won't .....I always knew there was something up with those cars there's no way you can have that much power and with that little emmission burning a more unrefined oil

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They broke the law they should pay the consequence I'm tired of seeing big businesses get away with stuff the average man won't .....I always knew there was something up with those cars there's no way you can have that much power and with that little emmission burning a more unrefined oil"
.

Next thing you know, there'll be telling you that massive increases in flight paths round Heathrow are doable because there's such low emissions from new aircraft engines

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haha to be fair people don't care about emissions look at the house prices in London..one of the places with the highest air pollution percentage in the UK doesn't stop it from being over crowded and dosent stop people from paying ridiculous amounts of money to live there

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"They broke the law they should pay the consequence I'm tired of seeing big businesses get away with stuff the average man won't .....I always knew there was something up with those cars there's no way you can have that much power and with that little emmission burning a more unrefined oil"

Somewhat (as some laws and rules are stupid) agree, they 'allegedly' (nothing been decided in a court of law yet?) broke the law and should pay the concequences, but we all know that's not how it works in reality.

Banks with Libor, etc. get away with a tap on the wrist and a few retired with massive pensions and replaced by equally 'dubious' characters. Only real losers are us consumers.

If you try going to the regulators to get a fair result you get blocked at all avenues or passed around to another regulator who will pass you back to the original one, etc. You come up with a decent legal case and take legal action and you get offered a deal that you can't (realistically) refuse so that things don't go public or a precident is set.

As long as money is money and power is valued by some so highly, fairness and justice will take a back seat.

Oops, just realised we joined here for fun and frolics, fecked that up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bad VAG emissions?

Maybe a trip to the clinic is in order?

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

you knew ciggies were bad. its why you dont sit in the living room and wait for the fire brigade to arrive.

you knew the papers used dodgy means to get storys. you knew it wasnt mistic meg.

you were happy with the price of your loan. you signed your ppi forms remember.

you knew your a3 couldnt go to the moon on half a pint of water.

its youuuuuuuuuuu!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have VW really been so bad by producing a system that ensures that it complies with the EPA testing?

The tests require that a vehicle has certain emissions under test conditions, they did that.

Road users and vehicle manufacturers come in for a lot 'stick' from governments with taxes, tests, ever tightening controls, etc. as they are an easy target as they are often seen as having disposable income and can be easily used to deflect from other areas of pollution or loss of other income (e.g. tax avoidance by very wealthy companies and individuals) that governments don't want to try and address.

I say this all tongue in cheek, but to me there are a lot of things more worthy of news and our concerns than one car manufacturer being caught out (pretty sure more will follow) for cheating a system that was so flawed to allow this to go undetected for so long."

Yes they are they had a cheat device that can detect testing n inject piss into the fuel system to reduce emissions. Rather than build an engine to comply with the rules, to save millions. Nw it's gonna cost them billions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They broke the law they should pay the consequence I'm tired of seeing big businesses get away with stuff the average man won't .....I always knew there was something up with those cars there's no way you can have that much power and with that little emmission burning a more unrefined oil"

Mine has 25% more power now (104,000miles) than when it was brand new, it also has two pieces of emissions equipment removed (EGR valve and swirl flap). I have all the MOT's and the emissions are lower now than they were when it was new!

It's perfectly possible to make a powerful car cleaner and more efficient, the problem is down to cost which is always passed on to the consumer.

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By *oddamnCouple
over a year ago

leicestershire

The problem is that vw set out to deceive their customers, so trust has been ruined.

The knock on problems is that vw cars may have their co2 emissions revised, which puts up the company car tax or road fund licence costs.

Which means we will be inundated with ppi style phone calls from now on. "Did you buy a car that doesn't do 65mpg like the brochure said because vw deliberately lied to you? "

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire

Interestingly the Torygraph has managed to combine their two in-vogue threads in one story: anti-germany and Corbyn.

Apparently the problems at VW are all Corbyn's fault!

Mr ddc

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By *artytwoCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Someone already raised this on another thread.

As I said then, Porsche used to put an air pump on their 1978-83 911SC to fiddle the emission figures for the US market.

This is nothing new, just another media feeding frenzy.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

apparently tom cruise is going to make a film about the whole scandal

emissions impossible

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By *inzi LTV/TS
over a year ago

The Garden of Eden in Beautiful North Wales

The mpg that the makers quote maybe quite true but you'll never achieve the figures they claim as when they do the tests, the tape up all the shut lines, the grille and anything else they can to minimise drag but... They can't remove things such as wing mirrors or aerials, as apparently that's misleading.

So Mr Car Manufacturer, can you please explain how we can tape up all the shut lines outside, when we are supposed to be on the inside driving!

Surely that's just as much a scandal and a blatant lie?

Rant over.

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By *erbyDalesCplCouple
over a year ago

Derbyshire


"Someone already raised this on another thread.

."

Yeah, I couldn't remember what that one was called.

As it was 'vw' just led me towards lots of threads about big willies (vwe) and as for 'vag'....

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"The mpg that the makers quote maybe quite true but you'll never achieve the figures they claim as when they do the tests, the tape up all the shut lines, the grille and anything else they can to minimise drag but... They can't remove things such as wing mirrors or aerials, as apparently that's misleading.

So Mr Car Manufacturer, can you please explain how we can tape up all the shut lines outside, when we are supposed to be on the inside driving!

Surely that's just as much a scandal and a blatant lie?

Rant over. "
also spare wheel jack etc to lower the weight

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Started the thread a bit tongue in cheek to be fair but had some interesting responses.

We all know VAG weren't honest, we also all know that governments let major 'organisations' get away with things that they really shouldn't, but it's just business. Just how the world is.

As long as someone comes up with rules there will be someone looking at how you can get around or avoid them.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

isn't road tax for vehicles based partly on emissions...

so therefore potentially thats money that has been kept from the government...

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular


"Yeah, VAG lie, so do Ford, etc.

The salesman swore that the Fiesta 1.0 125 Ecoboost that he was selling to us would easily get 65mpg. When it went in for it's first service and we complained (just for the craic) that it was only getting about 45mpg, which was worse than the 1.9 diesel Polo it replaced the reply was 'yes, that's normal mpg, not test or sales mpg'.

We went into the deal knowing that it was bullshit, do you think that government agencies are stupid enough to think differently? An independant test was published so they had to act, simple.

I'm not going to pretend to be on a higher moral ground as I spent years re-mapping engines and resetting flash counters, changing ecu calibrations and responses, etc. so that dealer diagnostics wouldn't pick up on the remaps and affect warranties, etc. If anyone had actually driven the cars then it would have been pretty obvious though, even made some Mk4 Golf GTi's perform like an actual GTi and not a shopping trolley.

The published economy figures are achievable but ONLY if you drive the exact route under the exact conditions that the test mule drove to get the figures. Usually it's less than 10 miles in absolutely optimal conditions. The figures are usually worth fuck all as you said."
there is no exact route. It is done on a test rig and controlled by a computer.

C...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah, VAG lie, so do Ford, etc.

The salesman swore that the Fiesta 1.0 125 Ecoboost that he was selling to us would easily get 65mpg. When it went in for it's first service and we complained (just for the craic) that it was only getting about 45mpg, which was worse than the 1.9 diesel Polo it replaced the reply was 'yes, that's normal mpg, not test or sales mpg'.

We went into the deal knowing that it was bullshit, do you think that government agencies are stupid enough to think differently? An independant test was published so they had to act, simple.

I'm not going to pretend to be on a higher moral ground as I spent years re-mapping engines and resetting flash counters, changing ecu calibrations and responses, etc. so that dealer diagnostics wouldn't pick up on the remaps and affect warranties, etc. If anyone had actually driven the cars then it would have been pretty obvious though, even made some Mk4 Golf GTi's perform like an actual GTi and not a shopping trolley.

The published economy figures are achievable but ONLY if you drive the exact route under the exact conditions that the test mule drove to get the figures. Usually it's less than 10 miles in absolutely optimal conditions. The figures are usually worth fuck all as you said.there is no exact route. It is done on a test rig and controlled by a computer.

C..."

VW test theirs on a track as well as a rolling road. Most manufacturers do this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's all bollocks if you ask me! I'm not necessarily a huge VW fan but I think the law suits being filed against them is simply ludicrous.

Unless you have purchased a low emissions car strictly for business use as you pay less tax, thwe emissions debacle should have no effect on the normal private buyer.

You buy a diesel based on better mpg and greater torque vs it's petrol equivalent. You don't buy a diesel because it's clean. If it's clean emissions you seek, go ride a bicycle.

As for those who now stand to make money out of this unfortunate circumstance are the low life's of this world. I honestly hate people with a passion who benefit from others misfortune.

Rant over

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