FabSwingers.com forum: vorsprung durch

By *odareyou OP Man
over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

Technic....

VW admits falsifyingemissions data in the US..

It's likely to face huge fines over there and cars are being recalled,

Industry analysts suspect other manufacturers are likely to have done similar..

I bought my car on it's lower tax threshold..(Nat a vag car). Might vag cars now be given higher tax bands in the UK..

Thoughts ..??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Technic....

VW admits falsifyingemissions data in the US..

It's likely to face huge fines over there and cars are being recalled,

Industry analysts suspect other manufacturers are likely to have done similar..

I bought my car on it's lower tax threshold..(Nat a vag car). Might vag cars now be given higher tax bands in the UK..

Thoughts ..??

Of course they won't. They won't even admit that their press cars are more highly tuned than their production vehicles and that their performance figures and economy figures are pretty much plucked from thin air!

Hopefully this will put an end to the bullshit the VAG group pedals.

I'm surprised the engine issues on the 2.0l diesel units hasn't been bigger news over here. It's a massive problem and Audi have been forced to replace engines for free in the US but in Britain they're being allowed to get away with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And just to be pedantic "vorsprung durch technic" is Audi, not VW.

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By *odareyou OP Man
over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

"And just to be pedantic "vorsprung durch technic" is Audi, not VW.

I know...

. . Audis are being recalled in the USA as well... It's a group wide problem so I'd expect seats etc to be involved ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And just to be pedantic "vorsprung durch technic" is Audi, not VW.

I know...

. . Audis are being recalled in the USA as well... It's a group wide problem so I'd expect seats etc to be involved .."

Audi's have been involved in some serious recalls in the US (free engine replacements as I previously mentioned). This could spell disaster for VAG in the States and possibly worldwide.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

could this an issue for tfsi petrol engines do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"could this an issue for tfsi petrol engines do you think?"

No, that's a separate issue (premature piston ring wear and massive oil consumption leading to catastrophic engine failure).

What VW have done is fitted their cars with an ECU that knows when the vehicle is being tested and it then adjusts the emissions to fit with the California emissions regulations (some of the strictest in the world and the reason why modern diesels have the stupid EGR valve fitted). Once the test is complete the ECU switches itself back to its normal running map which doesn't even come close to complying.

Not quite sure how the car knows it's being tested, my first guesses would be it could be something to do with the GPS system on the car (it knows where the test facilities are and acts accordingl) or the tyre pressure sensors know when a the wheels have been removed to put the car on an axle dynomometer and it adjusts from there.

Sneeky fuckers....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"could this an issue for tfsi petrol engines do you think?

No, that's a separate issue (premature piston ring wear and massive oil consumption leading to catastrophic engine failure).

Sneeky fuckers...."
I read that a vw insider said it was relatively easy to predict a test through accelerator/brake usage on the ECU?.

California are already pushing for lpg powered cars within a few years being widely used.

Diesels do actually cause massive pollution, it's really a silent unseen killer no different than smoking, asbestos, radiation, all of which are regulated, considering most people wouldn't smoke in a childs face or even put there children in a room with asbestos.... It amazes me they don't see the problems with car emissions, especially diesels

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"could this an issue for tfsi petrol engines do you think?

No, that's a separate issue (premature piston ring wear and massive oil consumption leading to catastrophic engine failure).

Sneeky fuckers....I read that a vw insider said it was relatively easy to predict a test through accelerator/brake usage on the ECU?.

California are already pushing for lpg powered cars within a few years being widely used.

I suppose that's also a possible way to predict when the car is being tested but wouldn't really be reliable as occasionally people will use the throttle wide open.

EGR valves are great when the car is new, but after a few thousand miles they cause the inlet manifold to get full of soot and oily deposits which actually makes them less efficient and run dirtier. I had mine mapped out on a dyno (along a healthy power increase) and it actually runs much cleaner without it! I also swapped my inlet manifold for one that doesn't have swirl flaps (the Alfa GT was never fitted with a DPF either). I have gained slightly over 25% power and the fuel economy is around 58mpg on the motorway and 45mpg around town and emissions lower than they were when the car was brand new!

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By *odareyou OP Man
over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

I read that the fine could be up to $18billion. That's in the US alone... I wonder if other markets will be enforcing fines as well..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I read that the fine could be up to $18billion. That's in the US alone... I wonder if other markets will be enforcing fines as well..

looks like Germany and Italy are going to look into the issue so expect it will also be many other countries too..

a proper screw up..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read that the fine could be up to $18billion. That's in the US alone... I wonder if other markets will be enforcing fines as well..

looks like Germany and Italy are going to look into the issue so expect it will also be many other countries too..

a proper screw up.."

It will be world wide I'm guessing.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I read that the fine could be up to $18billion. That's in the US alone... I wonder if other markets will be enforcing fines as well..

looks like Germany and Italy are going to look into the issue so expect it will also be many other countries too..

a proper screw up..

It will be world wide I'm guessing."

yes, how they thought they would get away with it is a bit strange..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I read that the fine could be up to $18billion. That's in the US alone... I wonder if other markets will be enforcing fines as well..

looks like Germany and Italy are going to look into the issue so expect it will also be many other countries too..

a proper screw up..

It will be world wide I'm guessing.

yes, how they thought they would get away with it is a bit strange..

Arrogance.

They thought they were smarter than everyone else.

A mate of mine owns a dyno and not one VW has ever come close to its advertised power figure. They've been lying for decades it's about time they were pulled up on it.

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By *odareyou OP Man
over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

I'd hate to be there marketing department... They've spent fortunes using "you can rely and trust a vW".

Whoops...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

VW have said "millions" of cars around the world have been programmed this way.

The likely solution is to make the affected cars stay in pollution control mode. Then the owners will sue under the trade descriptions laws, And then VW will pay out again.

"I wish everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VW have said "millions" of cars around the world have been programmed this way.

The likely solution is to make the affected cars stay in pollution control mode. Then the owners will sue under the trade descriptions laws, And then VW will pay out again.

"I wish everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen".

A 10 minute flash update of the ECU will sort it.

Hopefully now they'll stop lying about the performance and economy figures too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VW have said "millions" of cars around the world have been programmed this way.

The likely solution is to make the affected cars stay in pollution control mode. Then the owners will sue under the trade descriptions laws, And then VW will pay out again.

"I wish everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen".

A 10 minute flash update of the ECU will sort it.

Hopefully now they'll stop lying about the performance and economy figures too."

If i bought a Golf TDI because it did 0 to 60 in 8 seconds and it was detuned to 11 seconds I would sue and spend the compensation on getting it remapped back to 7 seconds. Simples!

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By *olgateMan
over a year ago

on the road to nowhere in particular

5 billion set aside to pay for this, 11,000,000 cars affected, French government investigating and all other manufacturers worried sick

C...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VW have said "millions" of cars around the world have been programmed this way.

The likely solution is to make the affected cars stay in pollution control mode. Then the owners will sue under the trade descriptions laws, And then VW will pay out again.

"I wish everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen".

A 10 minute flash update of the ECU will sort it.

Hopefully now they'll stop lying about the performance and economy figures too.

If i bought a Golf TDI because it did 0 to 60 in 8 seconds and it was detuned to 11 seconds I would sue and spend the compensation on getting it remapped back to 7 seconds. Simples!

You'd have change too. A stage 1 remap would only be about £250...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

vorsprung durch kaput

It is very sneaky of them, I shouldn't but I do like the method

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They've set aside nearly £9billion apparently, £7b in public - they've fucked up...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nothing much new in this. Even 60 years ago tractor manufacturers were claiming more horsepower than was the case. Stick around long enough and you'll see it all again.

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip. "

It doesn't quite work like that.

The cars have been deigned to switch to an alternative ECU map while being tested. Unless the tester reads the ECU map before, during and after the test they wouldn't know. It's nothing to do with having the correct equipment it's ze Germans being sneaky fuckers.

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The German CEO has stated publicly that they have screwed up. Well, they have. Deliberately designing the cars to fool the tests? Which eejits decided to go with that?

The Golf gets consistent good reviews. I have owned a couple and agree.

But VAG is screwed now.

Can you imagine the board meeting where they agreed to introduce this technology? No, neither can I. Coffee and biscuits and fraud?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

They put the car on a dynomometer with a probe up the exhaust to read the emissions at different engine loads. They don't access the ECU at all because if the figures are within tolerence they don't need to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ironic that back in the day US muscle cars were tuned to the nth degree and run on AVGAS to get good figures,

And even that icon the EType JAG could just about crack 140 in good trim but press cars 150........

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer. "

But I am right.

If a manufacturer is being honest there's no need to check the ECU map and if the figures are correct and within spec it's all good. How we're testers supposed to know the car was programmed in a fraudulant manner?

It's like the MOT test in this country, they have no need to test the ECU if the figures are within tolerence, if they did you can expect the MOT to take considerably longer and a lot more cars fail (mine would because the EGR is disabled and since it has been the emissions have been lower!).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes but audi is owned by vw same as seat skoda bugatti Lamborghini...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but audi is owned by vw same as seat skoda bugatti Lamborghini..."
.

Actually there all owned by Porsche

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but audi is owned by vw same as seat skoda bugatti Lamborghini....

Actually there all owned by Porsche"

And driven by VAGinas...

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer.

But I am right.

if a manufacturer is honest? well they'd just have them all email the results in themselves then. the test is to see if their telling porkies. they didnt look properly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer.

But I am right.

if a manufacturer is honest? well they'd just have them all email the results in themselves then. the test is to see if their telling porkies. they didnt look properly. "

The cars were tested under specific guidelines, the testing was/is correct. VW have programmed the cars to give false readings. There's nothing wrong with the test or the testers it's the manufacturer. What part of that don't you understand?

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer.

But I am right.

if a manufacturer is honest? well they'd just have them all email the results in themselves then. the test is to see if their telling porkies. they didnt look properly.

they made the guidlines for the test that got the wrong figures.

the test got the wrong figures, they didnt test the car properly. your not suggesting they gotthe right figures?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"boring, every human on the planet knows they fiddle their figures.

the only scandal is us emissions testers didn't have proper testing equip.

It works exactly like that.

the tester couldnt be fucked to read the ECU map before, during and after the test so they wouldn't know.

Erm, no.

just repeating what they do again and again will not make you right. they did not check the car properly.

you dont listen to dodgy george the landlord saying, I've tasted it and its deffo smirnoff no need for you to check officer.

But I am right.

if a manufacturer is honest? well they'd just have them all email the results in themselves then. the test is to see if their telling porkies. they didnt look properly.

they made the guidlines for the test that got the wrong figures.

the test got the wrong figures, they didnt test the car properly. your not suggesting they gotthe right figures? "

Do you know how this stuff works?

They got the correct figures because VW have been fitting cars with intelligent ECU's that k is when they're being tested. The ECU alters things like the air/fuel ration, timing, turbo boost levels to achieve the required results during the test. Once the test is complete and the car leaves the test facility the ECU switches itself back to its normal running map which doesn't meet the regulations. It wasn't spotted because its never been done before and no one would have thought that a giant of the industry like VW would do something like this.

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

clearly they do or they'd let them email them in

vw didnt alter the car it was in the condition they they sell them in.

of course cheats cheat thats why they have testers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've always suspected this, under an obscure function.

Most emissions test are fixed so manufCturers can tweak when certain conditions are met-

Handbrake on

Warm engine

Held at specific rpms for specific times

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"I've always suspected this, under an obscure function.

Most emissions test are fixed so manufCturers can tweak when certain conditions are met-

Handbrake on

Warm engine

Held at specific rpms for specific times"

this one was when the traction control was off and when the steering wheel wasnt used atleast.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cheeky but will cost them in the pocket I think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"clearly they do or they'd let them email them in

vw didnt alter the car it was in the condition they they sell them in.

of course cheats cheat thats why they have testers. "

THATS THE WHOLE POINT!

The fact have been selling vehicles with a hidden engine mode to pass emissions regulations tests and then, when the test is over the cars switch back to a different engine mode that wouldn't pass the test.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cheeky but will cost them in the pocket I think"

$9bn in the US alone is the current figure. What happens when the rest of the world catches on could ruin them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A deal will be struck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not the first time the Germans have lied about their gas emissions....

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