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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over." These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there. | |||
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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over. These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there." How many times doesn't it happen? No one remembers those | |||
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"My belief is that everything is energy. When the Thailand tsunami happened animals went to higher ground in advance of it. It's not just animals and children, some don't grow out of sensing things. " That's not 6th sense,that's better hearing. | |||
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"I think some children pick up on things that don't really bother us adults because we have a better understanding of the world, and we aren't as cautious and tend not to panic about strange things too much. Most animals are about the same level of emotional intelligence as young children (dogs are thought to be around 7 years old for example). Not sure about children physically but their hearing is usually different to ours and they can hear more that adults can't, i'm not 100% sure about autism but don't they have processing disorders and get overwhelmed by stuff like noise or too much going on? I'm personally going for they have better senses than us and can notice things we can't notice or tune out even." My son is very severe, and I wondered if that keeps certain conditioning at bay, and allows him to pertain what he has. I remember as a child objects used to come closer to me, or the ceiling would appear closer, like is described in out of body experiences, I feel these things are disturbed and maybe shutdown in us when we get older. | |||
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"My belief is that everything is energy. When the Thailand tsunami happened animals went to higher ground in advance of it. It's not just animals and children, some don't grow out of sensing things. That's not 6th sense,that's better hearing." How do you know? | |||
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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over. These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there." Coincidence - meaning I cant explain what happened there Believe - willing to try and explain the unexplained Like my daughter as a baby, used to smile and my dog would bark at the kitchen door, when you get older you have the biggest bomb shell that destroys the magic yes Santa Claus is not real. | |||
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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over. These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there. How many times doesn't it happen? No one remembers those " But surely you have to be aware that is doesn't happen, to be aware that it does. | |||
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"I think some children pick up on things that don't really bother us adults because we have a better understanding of the world, and we aren't as cautious and tend not to panic about strange things too much. Most animals are about the same level of emotional intelligence as young children (dogs are thought to be around 7 years old for example). Not sure about children physically but their hearing is usually different to ours and they can hear more that adults can't, i'm not 100% sure about autism but don't they have processing disorders and get overwhelmed by stuff like noise or too much going on? I'm personally going for they have better senses than us and can notice things we can't notice or tune out even. My son is very severe, and I wondered if that keeps certain conditioning at bay, and allows him to pertain what he has. I remember as a child objects used to come closer to me, or the ceiling would appear closer, like is described in out of body experiences, I feel these things are disturbed and maybe shutdown in us when we get older." I remember you saying about your son on a different thread, not sure if you recall but I mentioned my sisters disabilities at the time too. Anyway in regards to sixth sense, I think because she has a childlike mind she senses things too, twice when I've been pregnant before telling anyone other than S and when another family member was ill. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house." I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. | |||
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"I think some children pick up on things that don't really bother us adults because we have a better understanding of the world, and we aren't as cautious and tend not to panic about strange things too much. Most animals are about the same level of emotional intelligence as young children (dogs are thought to be around 7 years old for example). Not sure about children physically but their hearing is usually different to ours and they can hear more that adults can't, i'm not 100% sure about autism but don't they have processing disorders and get overwhelmed by stuff like noise or too much going on? I'm personally going for they have better senses than us and can notice things we can't notice or tune out even. My son is very severe, and I wondered if that keeps certain conditioning at bay, and allows him to pertain what he has. I remember as a child objects used to come closer to me, or the ceiling would appear closer, like is described in out of body experiences, I feel these things are disturbed and maybe shutdown in us when we get older. I remember you saying about your son on a different thread, not sure if you recall but I mentioned my sisters disabilities at the time too. Anyway in regards to sixth sense, I think because she has a childlike mind she senses things too, twice when I've been pregnant before telling anyone other than S and when another family member was ill. " I don't see it as mystic, I just think it's natural, but we lose it in the thick of it all, Autists probably hang onto it because they shut of a lot of what society throws at them. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical." But that is just one incident, proves nothing. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing." I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand?  | |||
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"There's four animals that have the ability to see without sight, there's plenty of animals that can navigate through magnetic lay lines. Evolution is a wonderfully varied thing" Interesting that you mention laylines, Animals tend to follow them, there has been research in this area, magnetism seems very important to animals and ancient people. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing. I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand? "But reading and hearing many more. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing. I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand?
But reading and hearing many more."I've read and heard about many more too but I've only ever personally experienced about ten or fifteen incidents that I honestly can't explain with any of the five senses we currently know about. | |||
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"I think some children pick up on things that don't really bother us adults because we have a better understanding of the world, and we aren't as cautious and tend not to panic about strange things too much. Most animals are about the same level of emotional intelligence as young children (dogs are thought to be around 7 years old for example). Not sure about children physically but their hearing is usually different to ours and they can hear more that adults can't, i'm not 100% sure about autism but don't they have processing disorders and get overwhelmed by stuff like noise or too much going on? I'm personally going for they have better senses than us and can notice things we can't notice or tune out even. My son is very severe, and I wondered if that keeps certain conditioning at bay, and allows him to pertain what he has. I remember as a child objects used to come closer to me, or the ceiling would appear closer, like is described in out of body experiences, I feel these things are disturbed and maybe shutdown in us when we get older." I've got a bit of specialised knowledge in psychology and neurology but no knowledge really in autism, they suspected my son had it and that idea was dismissed so i stopped focusing on learning about it. Think i'm out of my depth even guessing anything here, was hoping you'd know how his processing disorder might relate somehow. I can't even begin to understand how someone else processes things differently to me, unless i've been a part of their life for some time. Also we can sense things that aren't even real, or at least not physically. Our imagination has a lot to answer for sometimes. Our imagination tends to dwindle as we get older too, we become less creative and more structured as we learn about the world and make our own routines in it, or follow someone elses. I still get out of body experiences, nothing is moving i just feel like my body is empty of anything and i've floated out of it (but the 'me' isn't anywhere else). It happens every time i'm falling asleep, don't know what it is but it doesn't bother me coz i've learned nothing happens to me. Wouldn't mind knowing what's going on there though. My sister says i'm dying, which helped...  | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing. I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand?
But reading and hearing many more.
I've read and heard about many more too but I've only ever personally experienced about ten or fifteen incidents that I honestly can't explain with any of the five senses we currently know about."I don't think we should draw conclusions from these experiences, but be aware of them and observe and enquire into them, there could be rational explanations for a lot of them, but we should remain open minded, because I feel that to blindly believe or dis- believe is equally ignorant. BTW this is friendly chat, not being assertive.  | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her " There have been cases of dogs detecting cancer in their owners. One of our cats also identifies with ill people and lays with them. When I was about 18 I had an experience that I can't explain that frightened me, while it was going on and for sometime after my dog wouldn't enter the room it occurred in. | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her " I've seen loads of these examples, Dogs seem especially receptive to how we feel, I've had them put there head on my lap or paw on my leg when I'm upset, without me showing any outward signs. | |||
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"There's four animals that have the ability to see without sight, there's plenty of animals that can navigate through magnetic lay lines. Evolution is a wonderfully varied thing Interesting that you mention laylines, Animals tend to follow them, there has been research in this area, magnetism seems very important to animals and ancient people." Birds follow them to on migration. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing. I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand?
But reading and hearing many more.
I've read and heard about many more too but I've only ever personally experienced about ten or fifteen incidents that I honestly can't explain with any of the five senses we currently know about.
I don't think we should draw conclusions from these experiences, but be aware of them and observe and enquire into them, there could be rational explanations for a lot of them, but we should remain open minded, because I feel that to blindly believe or dis- believe is equally ignorant.
BTW this is friendly chat, not being assertive. " yes I know. I agree with you. I enjoy friendly discussion and won't get offended or take it personally if you have a different opinion to me. | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her I've seen loads of these examples, Dogs seem especially receptive to how we feel, I've had them put there head on my lap or paw on my leg when I'm upset, without me showing any outward signs." Horses and cats too - most animals could I think. | |||
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"Affectionate Bitch: it's called astral projection. " Thanks. I'll have a google about that. At least my sister was wrong then. | |||
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"Affectionate Bitch: it's called astral projection. Thanks. I'll have a google about that. At least my sister was wrong then." Sort of  | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house." That's so cool. | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her There have been cases of dogs detecting cancer in their owners. One of our cats also identifies with ill people and lays with them. When I was about 18 I had an experience that I can't explain that frightened me, while it was going on and for sometime after my dog wouldn't enter the room it occurred in." . There has been several successful attempts to train dogs to smell cancer... And theres been several dogs who can be trained to smell death that work with police forces. There not really 100% reliable though so we invented other stuff | |||
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"There's four animals that have the ability to see without sight, there's plenty of animals that can navigate through magnetic lay lines. Evolution is a wonderfully varied thing Interesting that you mention laylines, Animals tend to follow them, there has been research in this area, magnetism seems very important to animals and ancient people.Birds follow them to on migration." Whales do too, there is so much we don't understand about Nature, we know a water molecule in the Pacific Ocean, if that. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. I got a puppy when I was 11, when I was 18 I went away to college and the only time I came home for the weekend by bus instead of train he actually met me at the bus stop. Incredible! Not really, he was a serial run away and his favourite route went past the bus stop on his way to the abattoir to get a bone. I have a wide open mind when it comes to these things but I always look for the logical explanation before the illogical. But that is just one incident, proves nothing. I thought yours was one incident, you started your post "I once"......did I misunderstand?
But reading and hearing many more.
I've read and heard about many more too but I've only ever personally experienced about ten or fifteen incidents that I honestly can't explain with any of the five senses we currently know about.
I don't think we should draw conclusions from these experiences, but be aware of them and observe and enquire into them, there could be rational explanations for a lot of them, but we should remain open minded, because I feel that to blindly believe or dis- believe is equally ignorant.
BTW this is friendly chat, not being assertive.
yes I know. I agree with you. I enjoy friendly discussion and won't get offended or take it personally if you have a different opinion to me. "  | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house. That's so cool. "Try it, if you have a Dog, or a Cat, I never tried it with a Cat. | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her There have been cases of dogs detecting cancer in their owners. One of our cats also identifies with ill people and lays with them. When I was about 18 I had an experience that I can't explain that frightened me, while it was going on and for sometime after my dog wouldn't enter the room it occurred in." See I always believed he knew before the operation there was something wrong with her, I've never said anything though in fear of people thinking I was barking mad
But for a couple of months before the operation he kept sniffing round her groin area, people just said lots of dogs smell womens bits but she was the only person he did it to
Maybe I was over thinking or I am barking mad | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her There have been cases of dogs detecting cancer in their owners. One of our cats also identifies with ill people and lays with them. When I was about 18 I had an experience that I can't explain that frightened me, while it was going on and for sometime after my dog wouldn't enter the room it occurred in. See I always believed he knew before the operation there was something wrong with her, I've never said anything though in fear of people thinking I was barking mad
But for a couple of months before the operation he kept sniffing round her grain area, people just said lots of dogs smell womens bits but she was the only person he did it to
Maybe I was over thinking or I am barking mad "You are not alone, I've seen and heard enough to feel there is something in this, not enough research is done in this area, we could learn so much from animals. | |||
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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over. These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there." The dog told me he'd cut the brakes for the inheritance. | |||
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"There's four animals that have the ability to see without sight, there's plenty of animals that can navigate through magnetic lay lines. Evolution is a wonderfully varied thing Interesting that you mention laylines, Animals tend to follow them, there has been research in this area, magnetism seems very important to animals and ancient people.Birds follow them to on migration. Whales do too, there is so much we don't understand about Nature, we know a water molecule in the Pacific Ocean, if that." I totally agree. It seems odd when people say oh science proves this is true. Then a couple of years later science proves the opposite is true.
We don't know what we know or what we don't know.  | |||
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"Native people seem to have it too, Australian Aborigines named a place " Bad energy", and kept away from it, the Australian government discovered Uranium there." Natives ? ffs. | |||
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"A local farmer had a dog that went everywhere with him. The only time the dog refused to get in the landrover was the day he turned it over. These things happen too often to be coincidence, loads of stories out there. The dog told me he'd cut the brakes for the inheritance. " But how did he know he was in the will?  | |||
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"Native people seem to have it too, Australian Aborigines named a place " Bad energy", and kept away from it, the Australian government discovered Uranium there. Natives ? ffs. " Don't understand? | |||
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"There's four animals that have the ability to see without sight, there's plenty of animals that can navigate through magnetic lay lines. Evolution is a wonderfully varied thing Interesting that you mention laylines, Animals tend to follow them, there has been research in this area, magnetism seems very important to animals and ancient people.Birds follow them to on migration. Whales do too, there is so much we don't understand about Nature, we know a water molecule in the Pacific Ocean, if that. I totally agree. It seems odd when people say oh science proves this is true. Then a couple of years later science proves the opposite is true.
We don't know what we know or what we don't know. "I once heard someone say " knowledge is limited", what you've said is spot on. | |||
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"I think dogs know things I remember when my daughter had her hysterectomy, she was only 18 and the Labrador was about a year old at the time he was a proper live wire at that age, jumped up everybody and everything, never sat still, when my daughter came home from the hospital he was so gentle with her, didn't jump all over her or anything, she went into a depression after the operation that dog never left her side he just laid with her, his whole body language was different , it was as if he knew she was hurting and he was protecting her There have been cases of dogs detecting cancer in their owners. One of our cats also identifies with ill people and lays with them. When I was about 18 I had an experience that I can't explain that frightened me, while it was going on and for sometime after my dog wouldn't enter the room it occurred in. See I always believed he knew before the operation there was something wrong with her, I've never said anything though in fear of people thinking I was barking mad
But for a couple of months before the operation he kept sniffing round her groin area, people just said lots of dogs smell womens bits but she was the only person he did it to
Maybe I was over thinking or I am barking mad "Lol I see what you did there . I think that dogs have an excellent sense if smell and will gravitate to unusual or different to normal smells which is why we train them as sniffer dogs, certain illnesses or infections will have a smell not detectable by humans but unusual enough for dogs to notice and keep noticing. | |||
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"Affectionate Bitch: it's called astral projection. Thanks. I'll have a google about that. At least my sister was wrong then. Sort of "Lol, did find something about near death experiences already. I looked up astral projection. It's definitely not that, i'm not going anywhere i just feel like my body is hollow and i'm not anywhere, it's a really nice feeling though. Wouldn't be surprised if it's something to do with dissociation, i do that really easily and always have done, might be at the top level of doing it now. | |||
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"Native people seem to have it too, Australian Aborigines named a place " Bad energy", and kept away from it, the Australian government discovered Uranium there. Natives ? ffs. Don't understand?" Indigenous | |||
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"We are all native to somewhere. We are all indigenous to somewhere. Reference to other cultures as 'natives' is all a bit pith helmet and very dated. " I see, my mistake, wasn't deliberate, I'm use to speaking to a lot of " Native Americans" online about their plight in the US, and they prefer that term, well, some of them. | |||
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"I can sense when the dogs farted as it fucking stinks "Funny that isn't it. I can always tell when someone is ringing the doorbell. | |||
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"Native people seem to have it too, Australian Aborigines named a place " Bad energy", and kept away from it, the Australian government discovered Uranium there. Natives ? ffs. Don't understand? Indigenous " .adjective originating or occurring naturally in a particular place; native. Tomatoes tomaratos let's call the whole thing off | |||
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"I can sense when the dogs farted as it fucking stinks "Liar, it's you, everyone know that, Blame the poor dog , trick. | |||
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"I think that reality as we experience it is actually conjured up by an array of very subtle subforces. Science goes barging in looking for forces that are within a certain measurable range. But the human and animal is capable of picking up much more subtle forces, as yet undetenctable by science because they require really tuning into them. It is this tuning in to the substrate of existence which accounts for experiences such as these and other such strange stuff. It is one coherent sense, from dreaming through to dowsing or other forms of sensing like deja vu etc. It is merely us picking up on extremely subtle frequencies, listening in to them, and trusting our sense of what they tell us. This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. That's what I recon anyway lol "I feel that the tension in our bodies is part of the reason we don't pick up on things, whilst practising Qi Gong and Taiji, I did notice how tense my body was, and possibly closed off to much of the more subtle things around me, we need to find that sensitivity again, be more childlike in our bodies, learn to breath correctly, this seems to take us closer to those kinds of feeling. | |||
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"I think that reality as we experience it is actually conjured up by an array of very subtle subforces. Science goes barging in looking for forces that are within a certain measurable range. But the human and animal is capable of picking up much more subtle forces, as yet undetenctable by science because they require really tuning into them. It is this tuning in to the substrate of existence which accounts for experiences such as these and other such strange stuff. It is one coherent sense, from dreaming through to dowsing or other forms of sensing like deja vu etc. It is merely us picking up on extremely subtle frequencies, listening in to them, and trusting our sense of what they tell us. This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. That's what I recon anyway lol "There are quantum scientists though. They're looking outside of the realms that we can measure, using ideas that makes sense or are logically possible, they even use maths to prove things. Science doesn't just go barging in, it looks at what makes sense based on what we actually know at the time of observing. Animals and children work on a lower level of understanding than adults, therefore they tend to react differently. That's how everything works, our reactions are likely based on what we understand from previous experiences/knowledge. | |||
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"I think that reality as we experience it is actually conjured up by an array of very subtle subforces. Science goes barging in looking for forces that are within a certain measurable range. But the human and animal is capable of picking up much more subtle forces, as yet undetenctable by science because they require really tuning into them. It is this tuning in to the substrate of existence which accounts for experiences such as these and other such strange stuff. It is one coherent sense, from dreaming through to dowsing or other forms of sensing like deja vu etc. It is merely us picking up on extremely subtle frequencies, listening in to them, and trusting our sense of what they tell us. This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. That's what I recon anyway lol
I feel that the tension in our bodies is part of the reason we don't pick up on things, whilst practising Qi Gong and Taiji, I did notice how tense my body was, and possibly closed off to much of the more subtle things around me, we need to find that sensitivity again, be more childlike in our bodies, learn to breath correctly, this seems to take us closer to those kinds of feeling."I've done a bit of dowsing, total amateur but I'm supposedly good at it, when I walk I try to sense what is in the ground several feet beneath me. I find I can sense things and the rods reflect that. The common dismissal of this is that I'm imagining it all and making the rods cross. However, a good counter argument would be that I am not imagining it, I am picking up on something, and that I am making the rods cross. Dowsing doesn't work mechanically... it needs a human to do it... the rods don't cross by themselves... so its clear that I'm making the rods cross... it's just a queston of why
Of course the solution would be to dig where the rods cross to see whether I'm right... but I haven't progressed that far yet lol | |||
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"I think that reality as we experience it is actually conjured up by an array of very subtle subforces. Science goes barging in looking for forces that are within a certain measurable range. But the human and animal is capable of picking up much more subtle forces, as yet undetenctable by science because they require really tuning into them. It is this tuning in to the substrate of existence which accounts for experiences such as these and other such strange stuff. It is one coherent sense, from dreaming through to dowsing or other forms of sensing like deja vu etc. It is merely us picking up on extremely subtle frequencies, listening in to them, and trusting our sense of what they tell us. This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. That's what I recon anyway lol
I feel that the tension in our bodies is part of the reason we don't pick up on things, whilst practising Qi Gong and Taiji, I did notice how tense my body was, and possibly closed off to much of the more subtle things around me, we need to find that sensitivity again, be more childlike in our bodies, learn to breath correctly, this seems to take us closer to those kinds of feeling.
I've done a bit of dowsing, total amateur but I'm supposedly good at it, when I walk I try to sense what is in the ground several feet beneath me. I find I can sense things and the rods reflect that. The common dismissal of this is that I'm imagining it all and making the rods cross. However, a good counter argument would be that I am not imagining it, I am picking up on something, and that I am making the rods cross. Dowsing doesn't work mechanically... it needs a human to do it... the rods don't cross by themselves... so its clear that I'm making the rods cross... it's just a queston of why
Of course the solution would be to dig where the rods cross to see whether I'm right... but I haven't progressed that far yet lol "I've read a bit about Dowsing in Colin Wilson's books, has there been much research on how successful it is? | |||
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"I think that reality as we experience it is actually conjured up by an array of very subtle subforces. Science goes barging in looking for forces that are within a certain measurable range. But the human and animal is capable of picking up much more subtle forces, as yet undetenctable by science because they require really tuning into them. It is this tuning in to the substrate of existence which accounts for experiences such as these and other such strange stuff. It is one coherent sense, from dreaming through to dowsing or other forms of sensing like deja vu etc. It is merely us picking up on extremely subtle frequencies, listening in to them, and trusting our sense of what they tell us. This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. That's what I recon anyway lol
I feel that the tension in our bodies is part of the reason we don't pick up on things, whilst practising Qi Gong and Taiji, I did notice how tense my body was, and possibly closed off to much of the more subtle things around me, we need to find that sensitivity again, be more childlike in our bodies, learn to breath correctly, this seems to take us closer to those kinds of feeling.
I've done a bit of dowsing, total amateur but I'm supposedly good at it, when I walk I try to sense what is in the ground several feet beneath me. I find I can sense things and the rods reflect that. The common dismissal of this is that I'm imagining it all and making the rods cross. However, a good counter argument would be that I am not imagining it, I am picking up on something, and that I am making the rods cross. Dowsing doesn't work mechanically... it needs a human to do it... the rods don't cross by themselves... so its clear that I'm making the rods cross... it's just a queston of why
Of course the solution would be to dig where the rods cross to see whether I'm right... but I haven't progressed that far yet lol "I use dowsing as a part of work, when excavating it does work most of the time, when it does not work you look a twat! but who cares it can save loads of time? | |||
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"There are quantum scientists though. They're looking outside of the realms that we can measure, using ideas that makes sense or are logically possible, they even use maths to prove things. Science doesn't just go barging in, it looks at what makes sense based on what we actually know at the time of observing." I don't really see science in that way. And I worry about your use of the word "prove" which seems to infer the standard use of the word rather than the scientific use. However, I don't know if I've got it in me to have a big barmy about all the reasons why I don't... but I just thought I'd at least respond lol Sorry... too many late nights... a bit frazzled
I don't know if you read my PM to you from a while back but that'll probably head you in the right direction. | |||
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"I use dowsing as a part of work, when excavating it does work most of the time, when it does not work you look a twat! but who cares it can save loads of time? "Good to hear dude. I don't know if that person who found Richard III's remains did it via dowsing... but she/he did report having a strong sense that his remains were there so I'd say it's very much the same thing i.e. tuning into more subtle vibes | |||
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"There are quantum scientists though. They're looking outside of the realms that we can measure, using ideas that makes sense or are logically possible, they even use maths to prove things. Science doesn't just go barging in, it looks at what makes sense based on what we actually know at the time of observing. I don't really see science in that way. And I worry about your use of the word "prove" which seems to infer the standard use of the word rather than the scientific use. However, I don't know if I've got it in me to have a big barmy about all the reasons why I don't... but I just thought I'd at least respond lol Sorry... too many late nights... a bit frazzled
I don't know if you read my PM to you from a while back but that'll probably head you in the right direction."Yes i read your pm but can't remember it and it didn't make sense to me i do remember that. I've studied some sciences, i use science to learn things all the time. I understand that sometimes science knows things but cannot fully explain them, it will continue to look into things until it knows for sure, placebos might be a good example in this case. It also sees reactions and uses them to guess sometimes but this guessing will have some foundation to it, but it never just barges in and says this is right this is wrong. it says this is likely, this is true, this is possible. You're using a computer, you cannot say science doesn't know what it's doing. | |||
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"I've studied some sciences, i use science to learn things all the time. I understand that sometimes science knows things but cannot fully explain them, it will continue to look into things until it knows for sure, placebos might be a good example in this case. It also sees reactions and uses them to guess sometimes but this guessing will have some foundation to it, but it never just barges in and says this is right this is wrong. it says this is likely, this is true, this is possible. You're using a computer, you cannot say science doesn't know what it's doing." Ahhh the old leap of faith that usefulness indicates Truthfulness The trouble is there is no logical framework to "prove" that leap of faith... it is just a leap of faith. The question is... is it possible for a scientific theory to be wrong and still achieve practical results. I'd say Ptolemy's Epicycles and a series of other now abandoned theories show it is.
Science rarely knows things "for sure"... that's part of the beauty of it. Whilst there's a place for such an optimistic account of science in the simpler end of it... for the most part it is deceptive imo. If you like, wiki scientific realism and then anti-realism... it'll give you a bit of insight into the arguments flying about amongst scientists and philosophers of science | |||
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"I've studied some sciences, i use science to learn things all the time. I understand that sometimes science knows things but cannot fully explain them, it will continue to look into things until it knows for sure, placebos might be a good example in this case. It also sees reactions and uses them to guess sometimes but this guessing will have some foundation to it, but it never just barges in and says this is right this is wrong. it says this is likely, this is true, this is possible. You're using a computer, you cannot say science doesn't know what it's doing. Ahhh the old leap of faith that usefulness indicates Truthfulness The trouble is there is no logical framework to "prove" that leap of faith... it is just a leap of faith. The question is... is it possible for a scientific theory to be wrong and still achieve practical results. I'd say Ptolemy's Epicycles and a series of other now abandoned theories show it is.
Science rarely knows things "for sure"... that's part of the beauty of it. Whilst there's a place for such an optimistic account of science in the simpler end of it... for the most part it is deceptive imo. If you like, wiki scientific realism and then anti-realism... it'll give you a bit of insight into the arguments flying about amongst scientists and philosophers of science "It doesn't just pluck things out of thin air though. It looks for answers, and for links that confirm suspicions. Yes science is likely to be wrong sometimes, loads of people have died during medical experiments for example. But that's how science works, by experimenting until if finds answers. If someone dies during an experiment they won't say, ah yes that worked, they'll say that should of worked now let's find out why it didn't. Not sure using 2000 yr old examples of science is a good defence against science but we are able to observe much more now - and our way of thinking, although similar in many ways, is also beyond that era. I do know there are many areas of science tainted with bias, this is a problem, but in a world where money is to be made then this is gonna happen. | |||
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"It doesn't just pluck things out of thin air though. It looks for answers, and for links that confirm suspicions. Yes science is likely to be wrong sometimes, loads of people have died during medical experiments for example. But that's how science works, by experimenting until if finds answers. If someone dies during an experiment they won't say, ah yes that worked, they'll say that should of worked now let's find out why it didn't. Not sure using 2000 yr old examples of science is a good defence against science but we are able to observe much more now - and our way of thinking, although similar in many ways, is also beyond that era. I do know there are many areas of science tainted with bias, this is a problem, but in a world where money is to be made then this is gonna happen." Again. I simply disagree with your depiction of science. I don't find it objective or authentic enough. Suspicions are never confirmed, they are always affirmed. Science never deals in answers it always deals in hypotheses. Science, as you rightly say, is sometimes wrong, and it is being wrong on some things right now... not just in the past. There are examples of recent theories which were successful but we now think them wrong, so the phenomenon is not 2000 years old as you said. And none of this amounts to an attack on science... it is simply a disagreement with your depiction of science. But this is ridiculous because you're trying to argue with me over theories which have been proposed by prominent philosophers of science, some of which are also scientists. I'm merely the messenger here. As I said... if you're interested enough, go wiki it and you'll see its not quite as black and white as you think | |||
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" This is a sixth sense because it works energetically... picking up on things we couldn't possibly know with our 5 senses. Once science grasps that its mode of approach is preventing it from analyzing this, it will be discovered imo. " Oh they have long proven that there are forces outside of those which we currently understand, their EFFECTS can still be measured. If you look even at Lyall Watsons' 'Supernature' from back int the early 70''s the bibliography is full of them. | |||
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"Again. I simply disagree with your depiction of science. I don't find it objective or authentic enough. Suspicions are never confirmed, they are always affirmed. Science never deals in answers it always deals in hypotheses. Science, as you rightly say, is sometimes wrong, and it is being wrong on some things right now... not just in the past. There are examples of recent theories which were successful but we now think them wrong, so the phenomenon is not 2000 years old as you said. And none of this amounts to an attack on science... it is simply a disagreement with your depiction of science. But this is ridiculous because you're trying to argue with me over theories which have been proposed by prominent philosophers of science, some of which are also scientists. I'm merely the messenger here. As I said... if you're interested enough, go wiki it and you'll see its not quite as black and white as you think "It's ok. We just think differently. I don't need to wiki anything. I understand science, you see something beyond that and that's ok, i just don't see it. I've studied quite a lot and compared that to my environment so focus more on believing many sciences are true, based on my understanding of everything i've observed. Plenty of things are confirmed by science. Yes some sciences are biased, some are false and called pseudo sciences, but most sciences observe and find links that prove what they are saying is true and possible according to all the information they have at that time. And many studies observe too little of something, which is why they're usually backed up by peers. Also, a lot of the concepts in science work, they make sense, they're logical. I once said that we can live forever, if quantum worlds exist where every time we make a decision we create a new timeline, there's no evidence for this, there's no evidence for quantum worlds either, but i understand that concept, even without evidence. That's a crazy idea, i don't have evidence of it, but it makes sense if we ever find proof. I feel there isn't any proof though, and that's how you feel about science maybe? I feel this type of example is pseudo science. | |||
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"It's ok. We just think differently." I'm more than happy to agree to differ I would just say that you're banding a lot of loaded words around like "confirm", "proof" and "truth" which pretty much demand a god-like knowledge of what the ultimate Truth is. If you're happy to make that leap of faith and believe that current science is basically True then that's cool. I wouldn't want to stomp on your beliefs, especially if they give you comfort | |||
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"It's ok. We just think differently. I'm more than happy to agree to differ I would just say that you're banding a lot of loaded words around like "confirm", "proof" and "truth" which pretty much demand a god-like knowledge of what the ultimate Truth is. If you're happy to make that leap of faith and believe that current science is basically True then that's cool. I wouldn't want to stomp on your beliefs, especially if they give you comfort "Dunno if they give me comfort (a lot of social and genetic science bothers me and goes against what i'd like to believe), but they definitely help me to understand more of the things i want to understand, which is always a good thing in my eyes. | |||
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"It's ok. We just think differently. I'm more than happy to agree to differ I would just say that you're banding a lot of loaded words around like "confirm", "proof" and "truth" which pretty much demand a god-like knowledge of what the ultimate Truth is. If you're happy to make that leap of faith and believe that current science is basically True then that's cool. I wouldn't want to stomp on your beliefs, especially if they give you comfort
Dunno if they give me comfort (a lot of social and genetic science bothers me and goes against what i'd like to believe), but they definitely help me to understand more of the things i want to understand, which is always a good thing in my eyes."Yeah I can see that. "Understanding" is always comforting... even when it its totally mistaken. It helps us imagine everything's alright and we're safe. That somewhere out there, there are some clever people who know everything and can give us answers to life's questions. Helps us go to sleep at night without fearing ghosts n stuff. Can you imagine what life was like for people who thought the sky was gonna fall on their heads? Science is a wonderful comforter. Oddly, even knowing we're a lump of meat is more comforting to some people than having no idea of who we are. It's nice getting comforting answers out of books... after all we've had enough training over the years to do this... it must be instilled in our genes by now | |||
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"It's ok. We just think differently. I'm more than happy to agree to differ I would just say that you're banding a lot of loaded words around like "confirm", "proof" and "truth" which pretty much demand a god-like knowledge of what the ultimate Truth is. If you're happy to make that leap of faith and believe that current science is basically True then that's cool. I wouldn't want to stomp on your beliefs, especially if they give you comfort
Dunno if they give me comfort (a lot of social and genetic science bothers me and goes against what i'd like to believe), but they definitely help me to understand more of the things i want to understand, which is always a good thing in my eyes.
Yeah I can see that. "Understanding" is always comforting... even when it its totally mistaken. It helps us imagine everything's alright and we're safe. That somewhere out there, there are some clever people who know everything and can give us answers to life's questions. Helps us go to sleep at night without fearing ghosts n stuff. Can you imagine what life was like for people who thought the sky was gonna fall on their heads? Science is a wonderful comforter. Oddly, even knowing we're a lump of meat is more comforting to some people than having no idea of who we are. It's nice getting comforting answers out of books... after all we've had enough training over the years to do this... it must be instilled in our genes by now "It doesn't bother me to know who we are, or what we are exactly, or where we came from, or if we're living in a matrix or not. I've said this before, it doesn't matter. There's a lot more to life than philosophy. I'd say philosophy is the least important because it means nothing and can only be backed up by feelings usually, yet it's interesting to discuss because there are no correct answers. Like i said, some of science bothers me and goes against what i'd like to believe. I don't like to believe that people are just chemical reactions and our feelings come from that, it's very weird to think of people in that way and explains a lot about behaviour, but i agree with those who care to prove how it works. | |||
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"I once set up a Video camera in the front room when I went out, and saw that my Dog knew I was returning before I was even on our street, it was all spontaneous and not related to work times or anything, he layed down, and jumped up listening and wagging his tail about two minutes before I got to the house." You believe your fairy tail People with a logical brain know this is proven to be a dogs hearing being very sensitive. How did I know you would have an anecdote that proves 6th sense? My 6th sense or leant from people who claim this stuff before? | |||
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"There's a lot more to life than philosophy. I'd say philosophy is the least important because it means nothing and can only be backed up by feelings usually, yet it's interesting to discuss because there are no correct answers." You may disagree with contemporary philosophy of science but you should know that it is the attempt to rationalise and prove, using reason alone, the assertions of science. It is not simply "feelings". It is the cutting edge of rationalism. If you prefer not to be rational about science that's cool but I'd argue that you shouldn't dismiss those who are trying to rationalise and make sense of it. Indeed, I'd argue that science itself is predicated upon it, with the scientific method itself having been derived over years of philosophical enquiry into how best to test hypotheses. I think there's an interesting patter in your statements that seeks to undermine a more rational grasp of science in favour of a romanticism about it. For me, if we are to arrive at a sceptical view on what is true and what isn't, which seems to be the thrust of any argument against Theism, we must apply that scepticism in a uniform manner across all areas of the debate... not just enact some philosophical version of a punch and judy show
Follow reason to wheresoever it goes.. that which can be reasonably doubted should be doubted... then see what remains | |||
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"I had a Dog who used to be with me all the time, work and play, when walking in the Peak District, I decided we should have a break, so I sat near the edge of some crags, we did this loads of times, but on this one occasion he absolutely refused to go anywhere near the edge, he was terrified, only this one place made him like this. Another Dog I had, refused to walk a certain section of a path in the Peaks, he pulled back on his lead and kept spinning as if something was circling us, scared the crap out of me at the time. My Autistic son ran into my bedroom one night a few years ago, for no apparent reason, within seconds there was an earthquake. Do Children and Animals still possess something that most adults have long lost through conditioning? You thoughts and experiences please." Yes and you can recover much of it through meditation and listening to your intuition! go study!! | |||
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"There's a lot more to life than philosophy. I'd say philosophy is the least important because it means nothing and can only be backed up by feelings usually, yet it's interesting to discuss because there are no correct answers. You may disagree with contemporary philosophy of science but you should know that it is the attempt to rationalise and prove, using reason alone, the assertions of science. It is not simply "feelings". It is the cutting edge of rationalism. If you prefer not to be rational about science that's cool but I'd argue that you shouldn't dismiss those who are trying to rationalise and make sense of it. Indeed, I'd argue that science itself is predicated upon it, with the scientific method itself having been derived over years of philosophical enquiry into how best to test hypotheses. I think there's an interesting patter in your statements that seeks to undermine a more rational grasp of science in favour of a romanticism about it. For me, if we are to arrive at a sceptical view on what is true and what isn't, which seems to be the thrust of any argument against Theism, we must apply that scepticism in a uniform manner across all areas of the debate... not just enact some philosophical version of a punch and judy show
Follow reason to wheresoever it goes.. that which can be reasonably doubted should be doubted... then see what remains "Wish you could use code in the forums coz i really need to use italics for some of this... Ok... reason and rational are the same thing as logic. But the way i am using them is this. We observe something to happen, we see it as a usual occurrence and therefore we can presume something based on that. Or maybe we know how something works and we might be able to come to conclusion that if we do something we can affect how that works. This is logical, there will be a cause and effect here. We can work on finding a cure until we figure out the right answer. An example might be we know the pancreas stops working efficiently in diabetics, we know what causes it to work efficiently, we can create something to put into the body that will make it work if we know how to recreate those compounds. Trial and error until we find the cure. For philosophy we can also observe and presume and effect, but there is no right answer because it is asking questions that cannot be answered, apart from how you feel about them. We can still use logic but no-one knows the outcome or if it will work. An example here is we know how to cure diabetes. Is it a good idea to prolong peoples lives when they're likely to pass those genes on a possibly create more people who need treatment? Ca we afford the time and money it takes to sort out this problem? Will it benefit society to do this or should we treat each person as individual with their own right to be treated because the technology exists. Another way of looking at it would be to mix the two sciences and find a cure that fixes the gene for diabetes altogether so no-one needs curing and we don't have to decide. But even so we don't know if we need that gene or not, we're presuming it to be useless because of the effect it has on our body. Maybe just changing the human diet will sort it and is the best remedy? Science isn't not one thing or another, it's many things. Working with others sometimes. But the philosophy side is less likely to find an absolute answer, if at all. | |||
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"Wish you could use code in the forums coz i really need to use italics for some of this..." Amen to that one Excuse me if I don't quote the rest of your post... just saves on space.
I see what you're saying but I think you're talking more about moral philosophy etc... where there are all sorts of grey areas. The philosophy of science isn't quite as nebulous and relatavist as that... although in some places it is. The philosophy of science is more architecturally logical... for example.
Take the problem of induction. If we find that A results in B... how many times do we need to repeat the experiment before we can say that A always results in B? From the purely scientific perspective the answer to that can be to repeat the experiment a fair few times and then assume that it always happens. This is induction. However, from a purely logical point of view it is impossible to show that no matter how many times you repeat the experiment you can know for sure that A will always result in B. Various scientists, logicians, and philosophers have tried to detail why the logic of induction is right and they have all failed. Today, it is acknowledged that induction is an act of creative imagination. It isn't logical. It is a leap of faith. Thus, in order to compensate for the lack of logical support for it, scientists now try to bolster their hypotheses using other tactics and not just induction.
When you read up on the philosophy of science you become much more aware of how vulnerable it is and how it is always seeking to correct itself to compensate for those vulnerabilities. It is getting better... but it is still only human. People who romanticise it tend to do it the dishonour of imagining it to be bland and superhuman... as if creating workable theories was easy. When you see science warts and all it becomes even more amazing and beautiful... a human art form which is defying all the odds to give us useful and hopefully insightful results
I agree that there are parts of science where there are clear signs of insight, such as found in medical science. But to universalise all of science as equally concrete and credible is a mistake imo. A scientist working on multiverse theory is wayyyy off piste compared to a scientist developing a new headache pill. In sum there are more scientists today who will be wrong than one's who will be right. To have a belief in science is to believe in that process, it is not to accept science as an oracle of Truth or an unquestionable authority. Anyway lol that's enough from me | |||
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"Wish you could use code in the forums coz i really need to use italics for some of this... Amen to that one Excuse me if I don't quote the rest of your post... just saves on space.
I see what you're saying but I think you're talking more about moral philosophy etc... where there are all sorts of grey areas. The philosophy of science isn't quite as nebulous and relatavist as that... although in some places it is. The philosophy of science is more architecturally logical... for example.
Take the problem of induction. If we find that A results in B... how many times do we need to repeat the experiment before we can say that A always results in B? From the purely scientific perspective the answer to that can be to repeat the experiment a fair few times and then assume that it always happens. This is induction. However, from a purely logical point of view it is impossible to show that no matter how many times you repeat the experiment you can know for sure that A will always result in B. Various scientists, logicians, and philosophers have tried to detail why the logic of induction is right and they have all failed. Today, it is acknowledged that induction is an act of creative imagination. It isn't logical. It is a leap of faith. Thus, in order to compensate for the lack of logical support for it, scientists now try to bolster their hypotheses using other tactics and not just induction.
When you read up on the philosophy of science you become much more aware of how vulnerable it is and how it is always seeking to correct itself to compensate for those vulnerabilities. It is getting better... but it is still only human. People who romanticise it tend to do it the dishonour of imagining it to be bland and superhuman... as if creating workable theories was easy. When you see science warts and all it becomes even more amazing and beautiful... a human art form which is defying all the odds to give us useful and hopefully insightful results
I agree that there are parts of science where there are clear signs of insight, such as found in medical science. But to universalise all of science as equally concrete and credible is a mistake imo. A scientist working on multiverse theory is wayyyy off piste compared to a scientist developing a new headache pill. In sum there are more scientists today who will be wrong than one's who will be right. To have a belief in science is to believe in that process, it is not to accept science as an oracle of Truth or an unquestionable authority. Anyway lol that's enough from me "Fucking hell, took ages to understand what each other meant...i get you now as well.
Yeah our way of thinking had advanced from the physical and this doesn't help. | |||
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