FabSwingers.com forum: 911, do you think America was right

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I think 'they reaped, what they sowed' as their foreign policies and meddling in other countries came home to roost. It is very very sad for the people impacted but they haven't learned, nor will they are their arrogance won't allow.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

As their arrogance*

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

But the Middle East will never have peace, ever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know the answer.....

But the arrogance of self-branding themselves as leaders of the free world became a very hollow claim....

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I can understand why America reacted how they did - it's easier to sell bombing an enemy than going all out on hearts and minds. However, I think they have played into their enemies hands by it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone please remember, it's the politicians and corporations that make war and cause the strife. Not the people of the country's. But it's always the people that seem to pay the price.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"Everyone please remember, it's the politicians and corporations that make war and cause the strife. Not the people of the country's. But it's always the people that seem to pay the price."

definitely no politicians in 4 platoon. just full of peoples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 11/09/15 14:16:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont believe it. Usa did the whole thing and blamed the terrorist so they could go to war against them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

You mean that fictional movie

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems"
.

Unless I missed the documentary version by Robert Redford

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By *akedninjaMan
over a year ago

edinburgh

"I think 'they reaped, what they sowed' as their foreign policies and meddling in other countries came home to roost. It is very very sad for the people impacted but they haven't learned, nor will they are their arrogance won't allow."
well said my friend ...your always the wise soul

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems"

You mean that fictional movie

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie "
.

Have you got a stutter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

"
.

Do you remember the film at all?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?"

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies "
.

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies .

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

You asked i replied

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By *ezjez369Man
over a year ago

london

The same is happening now with Syria. Using all the pictures of little.kids suffering to draw in our emotional supper so when they make the decision to bomb more or send in ground forces, more people support it.

The influx of Syrians has been going on since this first kicked off, why now then is it so important to be all over the news at every broadcast? Mmm let me think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies .

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

You asked i replied

"
.

No I asked if you remembered the movie with Robert Redford three days of the condor!!!

If your not interested in conversation why the fuck engage with my posts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War is the biggest earner for industry and politicians. Yet all it costs is lives

it also unites the public against a common enemy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies .

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

You asked i replied

No I asked if you remembered the movie with Robert Redford three days of the condor!!!

If your not interested in conversation why the fuck engage with my posts"

And i replied i did remember the movie..and its a fictional movie...whats your problem

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Please keep it civil

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies .

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

You asked i replied

No I asked if you remembered the movie with Robert Redford three days of the condor!!!

If your not interested in conversation why the fuck engage with my posts

And i replied i did remember the movie..and its a fictional movie...whats your problem

"
.

Don't bother, write frankly I'm not interested in getting in a conversation with you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems

You mean that fictional movie .

Have you got a stutter

Yes

Do you remember the film at all?

Yes i do...its a fictional one..much the same as most Hollywood movies .

Yes that's right with Robert Redford... We've been through this already?

You asked i replied

No I asked if you remembered the movie with Robert Redford three days of the condor!!!

If your not interested in conversation why the fuck engage with my posts

And i replied i did remember the movie..and its a fictional movie...whats your problem

Don't bother, write frankly I'm not interested in getting in a conversation with you!"

Fine by me

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

OK now that's sorted, lets get back to the Op ta

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To answer the OP question...yes i think they were right to defend themselves...as we would had given it be in the UK

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think most of what the US did following 9/11 was wrong. And I think the way 9/11 is shamelessly paraded around in politics today is abhorrent. If you want to do anything, bring up 9/11. It's sickening.

For someone who is a New Yorker and who was present in NYC on that day, it is insulting that it has been used for such aweful ends. But then, that's just my opinion.

-Courtney

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

"Everyone please remember, it's the politicians and corporations that make war and cause the strife. Not the people of the country's. But it's always the people that seem to pay the price."

"Bush's elected because of Florida's controversial result"

No majority

No Mandate

Total U.S. fatalities in Afghanistan: 2,238

Total Allied fatalities in Afghanistan: 3,393

Number of civilians Unknown

14 years, billions of pounds spent and no lasting change made, not a good result IMHO

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think it's a matter of if they were right or wrong. What were they supposed to do?

They asked the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden and they refused. Had they handed him over the war probably would never have happened.

They would also have looked weak on the world stage (especially to Russia) if they'd just let it go.

Personally I feel the war in Afghanistan was justified but avoidable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems"
.

Anyhow before I was rudely interrupted.

The conversation at the end of the film three days of the condor!

The entire plot of the film is about how America uses covert terrorism to secure oil reserves!

Unlike most Hollywood films,Robert Redford who's discovered the plot and is about to blow the whistle is told by the cia guy, go ahead, nobody will print the story because the public aren't really interested.

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think its bad timing for this question to be asked.

Today should be about remembering the civilian people who lost their lives.

Not about who's to blame or rights and wrongs.. ask the question tomorrow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What America wanted was a card. A playing card like the Jews have the Holocaust so they can use it as an excuse to do what ever they want and nobody to question their motives or actions. But it backfired on them big time. By now most of the world believes that 911 was not caused by some goat herder's who live in caves. America has used 911 and the "Islamic terrorists" which it created to wage wars in other countries and yet together with the UK has not been accountable for anything. Around 3,000 people died on 911 but since 1990 4 Million muslims and counting have been killed due to western wars not to mention over 10 million wounded. The west doesn't even batter an eye lid at those figures yet we are expected to remember 3,000 every year on 911? Bullshit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems.

Anyhow before I was rudely interrupted.

The conversation at the end of the film three days of the condor!

The entire plot of the film is about how America uses covert terrorism to secure oil reserves!

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!"

Whilst slightly off topic, the film sounds interesting, thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think its bad timing for this question to be asked.

Today should be about remembering the civilian people who lost their lives.

Not about who's to blame or rights and wrongs.. ask the question tomorrow."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think its bad timing for this question to be asked.

Today should be about remembering the civilian people who lost their lives.

Not about who's to blame or rights and wrongs.. ask the question tomorrow.

I understand where you're coming from, but can't agree with the above. I would've thought those who died are the very people who deserve this conversation to continue until a truth is found.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think its bad timing for this question to be asked.

Today should be about remembering the civilian people who lost their lives.

Not about who's to blame or rights and wrongs.. ask the question tomorrow.

I understand where you're coming from, but can't agree with the above. I would've thought those who died are the very people who deserve this conversation to continue until a truth is found."

The question should definitely be asked I just think that today should be for remembering the people that died.. We dont ask why it all happened on remembrance Sunday.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Think its bad timing for this question to be asked.

Today should be about remembering the civilian people who lost their lives.

Not about who's to blame or rights and wrongs.. ask the question tomorrow.

I understand where you're coming from, but can't agree with the above. I would've thought those who died are the very people who deserve this conversation to continue until a truth is found.

The question should definitely be asked I just think that today should be for remembering the people that died.. We don't ask why it all happened on remembrance Sunday. "

I think it's fair to be on a second thread... it would have been inappropriate to discuss on the one remembering the lost souls.

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By *roy9Man
over a year ago

London

It should have retaliated on the right target with full force... The Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan not Iraq which had nothing to do with 911. Pakistan yet again fooled the US

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the truth is known. It's just that some people need there to be a massive conspiracy so they can call other people sheep.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Their leader and mindset at the time was dumb. We made similar stupid mistakes.

Emotions need to be kept from such decisions, allowing strategic thinking that considers potential repercussions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

While it's been 14 years, in historical terms I think it's too soon to make that call. Early indications aren't good, but it's difficult to guess what would have happened had those actions not been taken.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What America wanted was a card. A playing card like the Jews have the Holocaust so they can use it as an excuse to do what ever they want and nobody to question their motives or actions. But it backfired on them big time. By now most of the world believes that 911 was not caused by some goat herder's who live in caves. America has used 911 and the "Islamic terrorists" which it created to wage wars in other countries and yet together with the UK has not been accountable for anything. Around 3,000 people died on 911 but since 1990 4 Million muslims and counting have been killed due to western wars not to mention over 10 million wounded. The west doesn't even batter an eye lid at those figures yet we are expected to remember 3,000 every year on 911? Bullshit."

I think you will find if you look closer that most of these 4 million Muslims were killed by Muslims in wars, mostly civil, that had nothing to do with the west. The west has been used by it's enemies how ever, for the blaim.

I'm not saying that the west has no blame but we are far from the cause of most deaths in the world.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil. "

good for our economy, good for their economy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Have you ever seen three days of the condor with Robert Redford?

The line by the cia guy at the end pretty much sums up the middle East problems.

Anyhow before I was rudely interrupted.

The conversation at the end of the film three days of the condor!

The entire plot of the film is about how America uses covert terrorism to secure oil reserves!

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!"

Never a truer word, in a fictional film about fictional events with fictional people being played by actors.

You'll be telling us all that Eastenders is a documentary next....

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

the giant cross that just fell on mecca says yes. I'm not so sure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!

Never a truer word, in a fictional film about fictional events with fictional people being played by actors.

You'll be telling us all that Eastenders is a documentary next....

Clutching at straws a little there, he stated the quote was relevant, which it was, no indication that the film itself was taken literally,

One of my favourite quotes from a film is Ollie in The Mist

"As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another. Why do you think we invented politics and religion?"

Same as the poster I think the statement has some value in actual life events, not the film,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!

Never a truer word, in a fictional film about fictional events with fictional people being played by actors.

You'll be telling us all that Eastenders is a documentary next....

Clutching at straws a little there, he stated the quote was relevant, which it was, no indication that the film itself was taken literally,

One of my favourite quotes from a film is Ollie in The Mist

"As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another. Why do you think we invented politics and religion?"

Same as the poster I think the statement has some value in actual life events, not the film, "

More being facetious than clutching at straws. Also a valiant but failed attempt a little humour.....

The flawed species quote is spot on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The twin towers atrocities was the excuse the Bush family had to go to war in the Middle East particularly Iraq to complete unfinished Kuait business from 1990.

The strategy was ill thought, conceived and executed all aided and abated by Tony Blair. Even now the latter is trying to deflect his culpability by holding up the Chilcott report. The actions of Bush and Blair in committing respective armed forces in a completely unwinnable situation is the true Lions being lead by donkeys situation in so far as placing heroes and heroines in mortal danger for nothing more than personal vendettas and the supply price of oil.

We do indeed reap what we sow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I dont believe it. Usa did the whole thing and blamed the terrorist so they could go to war against them."

Believing something is your choice but having an opinion is just that,you need facts to back it up. Too much evidence to show it was what it was

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the giant cross that just fell on mecca says yes. I'm not so sure

"
For all the God squaddies ( of what ever diety) I wondered what they would make of that? I am sure the extreme Christian sects will have a smug grin on their faces

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Cross or crane?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"
911 was the most atrocious atrocity of modern time who could argue with anyone wanting to retaliate to that !!!!

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By *gowbhoy4funMan
over a year ago

glasgow

9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cross or crane?"
in its non collapsed state it was in a cross shape.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cross or crane?"

Fundamentalist Christians will say it's a sign from God.

Fundamentalist Muslims will probably say the crane was built in the west and was deliberately built to fall on Mecca.

It'll be used to fuel someone's ideology.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?911 was the most atrocious atrocity of modern time who could argue with anyone wanting to retaliate to that !!!!"

I would argue that it was the most televised, not the "most atrocious". Was it worse than this:

The Rwandan Genocide was a genocidal mass slaughter of Tutsi and moderate Hutu in Rwanda by members of the Hutu majority. During the approximate 100-day period from April 7 to mid-July 1994, an estimated 500,000–1,000,000 Rwandans were killed.

Or worse because we watched westerners die?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder how many " terrorists they actually killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, on a ratio with innocent people.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

bak to the original question i think the comentators got it right when they stated that the world was about to change for ever and it did . personaly think the attack achieved its aim to create division and fighting between the west and islam in that respect its has suceeded

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Certainly kept the defence industry going after the end of the cold war...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree

What happened was horrific but one day the west will learn to stop trying to Police the planet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Certainly kept the defence industry going after the end of the cold war..."

Agree. Its quite convenient how the West 'invents' a war every few years. Helps road test new weapons systems. Makes the defence industry mega-bucks

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By *rown ThunderMan
over a year ago

newport

"the giant cross that just fell on mecca says yes. I'm not so sure

Crane.....not cross..look up crane on Google...bit stupid to carry on construction work with bad weather

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By *icky999Man
over a year ago

warrington

"the giant cross that just fell on mecca says yes. I'm not so sure

Crane.....not cross..look up crane on Google...bit stupid to carry on construction work with bad weather "

cringe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/09/15 13:12:32]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they should have spent all the billions they spent on weapons on really good scanning equipment at airports. Trying to take over a plane with a plastic spork would almost invariably lead to failure.

See a practical solution delivered

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

I watched a good prog on TV a few years on America & how it grossed billions from drugs in South America. They destroyed Bin Laden drug fields because it devalued their own drug fields, taking on such a dangerous character would obviously reap misery of some sorts.

The new film "Kill the Messenger" also shows how corrupt the US really is, the then US government were using drug money (again) to buy weapons that were sold to the Vietnamese to fight & kill their own men.

North was made scapegoat in the Watergate scandal as most of it was covered up as the new film reveals, twin towers was sad for the loss of life but if you play with fire you will get burnt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cross or crane?

Fundamentalist Christians will say it's a sign from God.

Fundamentalist Muslims will probably say the crane was built in the west and was deliberately built to fall on Mecca.

It'll be used to fuel someone's ideology."
.

It's a sign that Saudi health safety without westerners (Mecca) is shockingly bad

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By *44bertCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

They didn't retaliate though, they invaded a country that had nothing to do with it and escalated a terror war.

Retaliation would have been invading Saudi Arabia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When the oil starts to run low the public won't question how we secured the last reserves, just that we secured it!

Never a truer word wrote!

Never a truer word, in a fictional film about fictional events with fictional people being played by actors.

You'll be telling us all that Eastenders is a documentary next....

Clutching at straws a little there, he stated the quote was relevant, which it was, no indication that the film itself was taken literally,

One of my favourite quotes from a film is Ollie in The Mist

"As a species we're fundamentally insane. Put more than two of us in a room, we pick sides and start dreaming up reasons to kill one another. Why do you think we invented politics and religion?"

Same as the poster I think the statement has some value in actual life events, not the film, "
.

Ho hum... I'm glad you got the point of the quote and didn't obsess about Hollywood actors like some?

The point was that oil was so crucial to everything that nobody will bother about how it's secured, just that it's secured.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the truth is known. It's just that some people need there to be a massive conspiracy so they can call other people sheep."
.

But the truth isn't known is it!

The 911 report didn't even get the right 19 hijackers correct and when it was pointed out that two of the 19 were currently still flying planes for Saudi airways, they didn't even feel it necessary to reinvestigate!

It certainly didn't highlight how they funded there operation or managed to evade detection, just that there was inter departmental errors!...

You would imagine that the world's biggest crime, committed live on tv and that instigated so much military action would have been massively investigated, every I dotted, every clue followed.

You'd be of course totally wrong!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would argue that it was the most televised, not the "most atrocious". Was it worse than this:

Or worse because we watched westerners die?"
hey both situations are atrocious but this was the example given and I witnessed some of the terror of the innocent people jumping out of windows 30 floors up, for me my eyes my mind this was the worst thing I have witnessed not to mention the people on the planes ,the firemen who died trying to save them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would argue that it was the most televised, not the "most atrocious". Was it worse than this:

Or worse because we watched westerners die?hey both situations are atrocious but this was the example given and I witnessed some of the terror of the innocent people jumping out of windows 30 floors up, for me my eyes my mind this was the worst thing I have witnessed not to mention the people on the planes ,the firemen who died trying to save them "
if there is oil the yanks will go to war for oil but for people they don't give a shite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it"

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How come if Russia planes come into UK or Scotland area we have fighter's in the sky no problem seeing them off but the USA let planes that went off course they did not take them down at the time USA .British government is ruled by the USA its all about USA making money from war

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If this happened in lets say London instead of NY, would you not expect your armed forces and government to retaliate. Im not saying it is right or wrong, but something had to happen. I didnt agree with them going in and invading Iraq to get oil but they should have bombed and eradicated everything in Afghanistan.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the technology magazine Popular Mechanics have investigated and rejected the claims made by 9/11 conspiracy theories. The civil engineering community accepts that the impacts of jet aircraft at high speeds in combination with subsequent fires, not controlled demolition, led to the collapse of the Twin Towers. This also was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission, chaired by Governor Thomas Kean

I do love wiki...id rather take my lead from there than some fictional movie...made by actors...and with lines written for them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/09/15 19:52:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 12/09/15 19:52:02]"
if it had been a light plane fair enough but two jet linnets no

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"How come if Russia planes come into UK or Scotland area we have fighter's in the sky no problem seeing them off but the USA let planes that went off course they did not take them down at the time USA .British government is ruled by the USA its all about USA making money from war "

Er. OK then I'll do a bit of air defence strategy for dummies.

Russian MILITARY aircraft invade (or come close to) UK air space. RAF are scrambled to intercept.

United Airlines takes of from Boston to LA probably two three four, or more times a day. One strays off course and heads towards NYC. By the time anyone in Air Traffic Control even notices that anything is wrong it's too late. Boston to NYC is less than 30 mins flying time, depending on the exact position of the aircraft at the time of the hijacking it could have been as little as five minutes. Try spotting a problem, scrambling aircraft, and intercepting in that time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The USA always said it had the best home defence and intelligence in the world so how did it happen then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and the technology magazine Popular Mechanics have investigated and rejected the claims made by 9/11 conspiracy theories. The civil engineering community accepts that the impacts of jet aircraft at high speeds in combination with subsequent fires, not controlled demolition, led to the collapse of the Twin Towers. This also was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission, chaired by Governor Thomas Kean

I do love wiki...id rather take my lead from there than some fictional movie...made by actors...and with lines written for them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories"
...

Yes Wikipedia is very interesting

The US administration, CIA and FBI received multiple prior warnings from foreign governments and intelligence services, including France, Germany, the UK, Israel, Jordan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Morocco and Russia.[5][31] The warnings varied in their level of detail, but all stated that they believed anAl-Qaeda attack inside the United States was imminent. British Member of ParliamentMichael Meacher cites these warnings, suggesting that some of them must have been deliberately ignored.[32] Some of these warnings include the following:

March 2001 – Italian intelligence warns of an al-Qaeda plot in the United States involving a massive strike involving aircraft, based on their wiretap of al-Qaeda cell in Milan.July 2001 – Jordanian intelligence told US officials that al-Qaeda was planning an attack on American soil, and Egyptian intelligence warned the CIA that 20 al-Qaeda Jihadists were in the United States, and that four of them were receiving flight training.August 2001 – The Israeli Mossad gives the CIA a list of 19 terrorists living in the US and say that they appear to be planning to carry out an attack in the near future.August 2001 – The United Kingdom is warned three times of an imminent al-Qaeda attack in the United States, the third specifying multiple airplane hijackings. According to the Sunday Herald, the report is passed on to President Bush a short time later.September 2001 – Egyptian intelligence warns American officials that al-Qaeda is in the advanced stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, probably within the US.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wiki also has this to say

A classified military intelligence program known as "Able Danger" was created in October 1999 specifically targeting al-Qaeda.Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and CongressmanCurt Weldon (R-PA) charged before theSenate Judiciary Committee that Able Danger had identified Mohamed Atta, and three of the other hijackers, prior to 9/11.

The existence of Able Danger, and its purported early identification of the 9/11 terrorists, was first disclosed publicly on June 19, 2005.[33] On June 27, 2005, Weldon stated to the House:

Mr. Speaker, I rise because information has come to my attention over the past several months that is very disturbing. I have learned that, in fact, one of our Federal agencies had, in fact, identified the major New York cell of Mohamed Attaprior to 9/11; and I have learned, Mr. Speaker, that in September 2000, that Federal agency actually was prepared to bring the FBI in and prepared to work with the FBI to take down the cell that Mohamed Atta was involved in in New York City, along with two of the other terrorists. I have also learned, Mr. Speaker, that when that recommendation was discussed within that Federal agency, the lawyers in the administration at that time said, you cannot pursue contact with the FBI against that cell. Mohamed Atta is in the U.S. on a green card, and we are fearful of the fallout from theWaco incident. So we did not allow that Federal agency to proceed.[34]

There is no mention of Able Danger in the 9/11 Commission Report. Two 9/11 Commission members, Timothy J. Roemerand John F. Lehman, both claimed not to have received any information on Able Danger.[35]Weldon alleged that intelligence concerning Able Danger was provided to the 9/11 Commission but was ignored.[36]

Following coverage in the national media of Weldon's claims in August 2005, Thomas Kean and Lee H. Hamilton, former Chair and Vice Chair of the 9/11 Commission, issued a statement[37] in which they stated the Commission had been aware of the Able Danger program, and requested and obtained information about it from the Department of Defense (DoD), but none of the information provided had indicated the program had identified Atta or other 9/11 hijackers.[38][39]

Curt Weldon issued a response to this statement clarifying the mission of Able Danger, expressing concern over the statements made by various members of the 9/11 Commission, and promising to push forward until it is understood why the DoD was unable to pass the information uncovered by Able Danger to the FBI, and why the 9/11 Commission failed to follow up on the information they were given on Able Danger.[40]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The 9/11 Commission Report concluded that pre-attack warnings of varying detail of the planned attacks against the United States by al-Qaeda were ignored due to a lack of communication between various law enforcement and intelligence personnel. For the lack of interagency communication, the report cited bureaucratic inertia and laws passed in the 1970s to prevent abuses that caused scandals during that era. The report faulted the Clinton and the Bush administrations with "failure of imagination."[33]

Very interesting indeed

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

Muslim v muslim (shia vs Sunni) deaths have been way greater than any US vs Islam deaths. We all like to blame the west, but the issue is the fundamental schism between shia & sunni. In the UK we had protestant v catholic wars in Ireland. Don't just blame the Americans, it is a basic issue of Islam. The Americans and the West have been naive in trying to fix it, but the issue is an islamic one... No problem with Islam or Christianity, just idiots who think they know better than the gods they supposedly worship...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The 9/11 Commission Report concluded that pre-attack warnings of varying detail of the planned attacks against the United States by al-Qaeda were ignored due to a lack of communication between various law enforcement and intelligence personnel. For the lack of interagency communication, the report cited bureaucratic inertia and laws passed in the 1970s to prevent abuses that caused scandals during that era. The report faulted the Clinton and the Bush administrations with "failure of imagination."[33]

Very interesting indeed "
topical Americans thought they were untouchable they learned the hard way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job."

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

Excuse my language - but what a complete & utter load of bollocks! Since when did opinion amount to fact!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

Excuse my language - but what a complete & utter load of bollocks! Since when did opinion amount to fact! "

Since its been published in a series of US government reports. FACT.

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

Excuse my language - but what a complete & utter load of bollocks! Since when did opinion amount to fact!

Since its been published in a series of US government reports. FACT. "

No evidence what so ever to prove an inside job. If anything they were too soft and didn't react. When is that such a failure. The Anericans are not the bad guys you portray, they fail like the rest of us. But conspiracy theories are at best tame. The US did not kill their own people. Get real...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil. "

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

America attacked the wrong country.

9/11 was plotted by the Saudis.

The terrorist were funded HEAVILY by Highly ranked Saudi officials. Unfortunately USA have turned a blind eye at this fact in order to protecting its relationship with this oil rich nation.

Oh and by the way 28 pages of the 9/11 commission report were not released. According to the US government "the information can damage our relationships with foreign governments"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?"

Ah a minor detail

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it"

9/11 was never used as a reason to invade Iraq. No evidence had ever existed, real or false, that links Sadam with 9/11 or the terrorists behind it.

9/11 was used to justify invading Afghanistan.

The question as to whether invading Afghanistan was right depends on what you mean by right.

The US definitely had the right to invade Afghanistan under Article 51 of the UN charter. That's a simple fact of law.

Wad it the right or best thing to do? That's more difficult to answer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it was an in house job, it was too clinical

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's no source given for the claim that Cheney was solely in charge of NORAD on 9/11, which is a pity as it seems a little implausible that he'd be running everything from his White House office. Perhaps you can supply more details:

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"I think it was an in house job, it was too clinical "

Elaborate please, first by explaining what you actually think happened, then how you think they achieved it and finally by providing some real evidence to back it up.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

"9/11 ?? Obv this was Americas own doing !!

Theres absolutely NO CHANCE of their air space being invaded n they cant do anything about it.

Reason to invade Iraq wasn't it

Id love to know where you found out that from. I am very interested in the subject and have seen nothing to suggest it was an American inside job.

US vice president Dick Cheney was in charge of NORAD on the day and ordered the US air force a stand down command.

There's plenty of evidence to proof it was an inside job

Excuse my language - but what a complete & utter load of bollocks! Since when did opinion amount to fact!

Since its been published in a series of US government reports. FACT. "

Can you provide some links to these reports so we can read them for ourselves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I understand what your getting at with the playing card issue.. However has anyone given a thought to the servicemen and women ( yes I was one) dragged into this and our country lost over 4318 servicemen and at least 5 of them were women. War isn't pretty on either side.. but a politician Will never accept responsibility for their actions nor justify their reasons. I guess unless any of us were in that room when bush and Blair made the decision to strike. . I guess we will never know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

9/11 was never used as a reason to invade Iraq. No evidence had ever existed, real or false, that links Sadam with 9/11 or the terrorists behind it.

9/11 was used to justify invading Afghanistan.

Although evidence of a link between Saddam and 9/11 was probably never asserted - it does appear that some prominent U.S politicians promoted the idea of connections between Saddam and Al-Qaeda prior to the Iraqi invasion. We in the UK, however, were motivated by different dossiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations

Bush Reasserts Hussein-Al Qaeda Link

President Draws Distinction Between Involvement in 9/11 Attacks, Other Contact

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48970-2004Jun17.html

Saddam 'had no link to al-Qaeda'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5328592.stm

US Attacked Iraq Based On False Report Of Saddam Hussein's Ties To Al Qaeda: Sen. Carl Levin

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-attacked-iraq-based-false-report-saddam-husseins-ties-al-qaeda-sen-carl-levin-1750592

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

Lol are u serious. They faked the attack so they could do was they like in the middle east. U can see the results of there endeavours in every arab country now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Lol are u serious. They faked the attack so they could do was they like in the middle east. U can see the results of there endeavours in every arab country now."

In year of the great slaughter, the towers will fall.(foot and mouth livestock slaughtered in thousands......9/11 towers fall year 2001) quote is from bible

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By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

I watched earlier this evening about the other plane that doesn't get as much media as the 2 that crashed into the twin towers, this is the transcript in the credits:

Military commanders were not notified that United 93 had been hijacked until 4 minutes after it had crashed, the nearest fighter jets were 100 miles away.

Yes i know a lot was going on that day but you would have thought air traffic control would have noticed something?

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By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

But to answer the original post there would never a wrong or right answer, it would always depend on the success of the outcome and public opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I watched earlier this evening about the other plane that doesn't get as much media as the 2 that crashed into the twin towers, this is the transcript in the credits:

Military commanders were not notified that United 93 had been hijacked until 4 minutes after it had crashed, the nearest fighter jets were 100 miles away.

Yes i know a lot was going on that day but you would have thought air traffic control would have noticed something?

Yeah its called mass distraction, when I saw the first plane hit, there was a good bit of time before the second, enough time for someone too notice the flight path had changed course. Then the pentagon your telling me that the usaf missed that one coming, if a ufo was in the area the usaf would have fighter planes scrambled in the air too intersept the objects.

United 93, was another tool to help American administration get the backing too go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

God bless the men and women, and those family's that suffer loss due to a pointless war

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By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

I feel that which ever or at what ever point the air arrack should have been assembled, understand from sources that everything was apparent within 30 minutes????

I'm still not 100% sure on what if the is any ulterior motives are.

I have worked in an an emergency control room ( although not on this scale)so I do understand that the human part kicks in such as ...is this real? Should I fire that bomb? What should I do?the second tick by like minutes!

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By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

"I watched earlier this evening about the other plane that doesn't get as much media as the 2 that crashed into the twin towers, this is the transcript in the credits:

Military commanders were not notified that United 93 had been hijacked until 4 minutes after it had crashed, the nearest fighter jets were 100 miles away.

Yes i know a lot was going on that day but you would have thought air traffic control would have noticed something?

United 93, was another tool to help American administration get the backing too go into Iraq and Afghanistan.

God bless the men and women, and those family's that suffer loss due to a pointless war"

I'm not saying its not as to honest nothing would surprise me...... but if it was a plot then I feel even more sorry for for victims and survivors of 9/11

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel that which ever or at what ever point the air arrack should have been assembled, understand from sources that everything was apparent within 30 minutes????

I'm still not 100% sure on what if the is any ulterior motives are.

Absolutely your right human error (nothing wrong there just human emotions), but logically after the first one and then the second strike well you know its not a accident or aircraft failure, still the pentagon got hit and that's military I'm not saying that it was a set up, no there where extremist on those planes that day but I also know that Surface to air missiles and a very good air force could of prevented the pentagon from getting hit, which a that time to have a reason to goto war there had to be an attack on the military not just civilian building.

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By *otgymfitanymoreCouple
over a year ago

pontefract

"I feel that which ever or at what ever point the air arrack should have been assembled, understand from sources that everything was apparent within 30 minutes????

I'm still not 100% sure on what if the is any ulterior motives are.

Yes I agree with what your saying but there still that human element of making a decision to fire on an aeroplane full of innocent people, I for one am glad I was not in that control room that day!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

"
.

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...

The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our

support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the

project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any

governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,

Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do

support the project."

[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,

Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized

Afghanistan Government is in place."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1522987.stm.

From Margret Thatcher to John major to tony Blair!

From bush to Clinton to bush and Obama

One policy remains?, that the west has substantial interests in middle East regime change!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I watched earlier this evening about the other plane that doesn't get as much media as the 2 that crashed into the twin towers, this is the transcript in the credits:

Military commanders were not notified that United 93 had been hijacked until 4 minutes after it had crashed, the nearest fighter jets were 100 miles away.

Yes i know a lot was going on that day but you would have thought air traffic control would have noticed something?

"
.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash.

This is the wikipedia account of golfer Payne Stewart's death in his plane through accidental hypoxaemia in 1999.

It's interesting to note that air traffic control was onto them only 4 minutes after failing to make a scheduled turn, and that they had three military planes intercept and follow it until it's demise in south Dakota!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...

The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our

support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the

project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any

governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,

Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do

support the project."

[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,

Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized

Afghanistan Government is in place."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1522987.stm.

From Margret Thatcher to John major to tony Blair!

From bush to Clinton to bush and Obama

One policy remains?, that the west has substantial interests in middle East regime change!"

Senior Taleban officials were feted, wined and dined in America one week before 9/11 as the US government tried to persuade them to allow an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. The Taleban refused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I rarely think America is right about anything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If ya ain't already then go watch the documentary called loose change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

Further to my post (above), I've just read that the oil line project star yr ed in May 2002

Just sayin'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And didn't Jeb Bush say, prior to 9/11,that it would take something like Pearl Harbour before the US could invade Iraq?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

Further to my post (above), I've just read that the oil line project star yr ed in May 2002

Just sayin' "
.

I'm in full agreement with you!

I don't buy into the elaborate, missile strikes, or rigging of buildings

All you need to do, is encourage an existing enemy (see the first world trade centre attempt)

Finance them (see the ongoing attempt to restrict knowledge of payment from the isi and Saudi Arabia).

And then move any obstructions for the attempt to succeeded (NORAD, CIA,FBI SECRET SERVICE, FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE REPORTS)

you know if you were to have said that the us government was involved in regime change in central America by trading cocaine for weapons to prop up guerrilla warfare (guerrillas that had rape camps I'd add) and that the whole thing was done with the aid of Israeli and Iranian help and you could do it under the smoke screen of us hostages and then even when your caught red handed, not to worry as the vice President (George bush) who later became president can pardon you all anyway!

You may have been called lots of names and much piss taking would have occurred

After irangate you may have not been subject to such mirth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't forget the " look how efficient our new weapons are, would you like to buy some", scenario.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...

The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our

support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the

project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any

governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,

Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do

support the project."

[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,

Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized

Afghanistan Government is in place."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1522987.stm.

From Margret Thatcher to John major to tony Blair!

From bush to Clinton to bush and Obama

One policy remains?, that the west has substantial interests in middle East regime change!

Senior Taleban officials were feted, wined and dined in America one week before 9/11 as the US government tried to persuade them to allow an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. The Taleban refused"

From wiki:

Since the pipeline was to pass through Afghanistan, it was necessary to work with the Taliban. The U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, Robert Oakley, moved into CentGas in 1997. In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquished its 10% stake in the project. On 7 August 1998, American embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam were bombed. The United States alleged that Osama bin Laden was behind those attacks, and all pipeline negotiations halted, as the Taliban's then leader, Mullah Omar, announced that bin Laden had the Taliban's support. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998, and soon after closed its offices in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...

The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our

support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the

project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any

governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,

Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do

support the project."

[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,

Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized

Afghanistan Government is in place."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1522987.stm.

From Margret Thatcher to John major to tony Blair!

From bush to Clinton to bush and Obama

One policy remains?, that the west has substantial interests in middle East regime change!

Senior Taleban officials were feted, wined and dined in America one week before 9/11 as the US government tried to persuade them to allow an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. The Taleban refused

From wiki:

A minor detail

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So that's why you need a stable afghanistan.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can I remind people about the THIRD tower that collapsed - though nothing hit that - several hours after the Twin Towers were hit?

How do people explain that one?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Can I remind people about the THIRD tower that collapsed - though nothing hit that - several hours after the Twin Towers were hit?

How do people explain that one? "

that's a different thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can I remind people about the THIRD tower that collapsed - though nothing hit that - several hours after the Twin Towers were hit?

How do people explain that one?

that's a different thread. "

No more than an extension than talk of it being an inside job, I'd suggest, but moving away from your original question, I'll admit.

Coming back to your OP, there is no way Americans will ever entertain the idea that they handled things the wrong way. That they have is pretty evident to the rest of the world. And how to handle things now? The power vacuums left throughout the Middle East have been a result of America's bellicose and interfering response to 9/11, a response that now threatens to destabilise most of the Middle East. If Edward Snowden is right it's been done all rather deliberately to create the current mess

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Who said that when people stop believing in religions they'll start to believe in anything.

Maybe some on here should be as cynical about some of their conspiracy theories as they are about their governments.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The so called retaliation was anything but. It about securing oil.

Bur there is no oil to in Afghanistan, so how does that work?

Ah a minor detail

"The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...

The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our

support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the

project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any

governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,

Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do

support the project."

[ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,

Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

"CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized

Afghanistan Government is in place."

[ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ].

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1522987.stm.

From Margret Thatcher to John major to tony Blair!

From bush to Clinton to bush and Obama

One policy remains?, that the west has substantial interests in middle East regime change!

Senior Taleban officials were feted, wined and dined in America one week before 9/11 as the US government tried to persuade them to allow an oil pipeline across Afghanistan. The Taleban refused

From wiki:

See.

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

Yes.

Everyone turned the other cheek to Pol Pot, the Taliban are no different to the Camere rouge.

Afghanistan may still be the lawless land it always was, that's never going to change, however the people are free, women can teach without fear of public execution and female children are free to go to school and learn.

And of course Al Quaieda are now a former shadow of what they were.

A big price was paid by many brave men and women and it sickens me when hear people say it was pointless and we should never have got involved, it demeans their ultimate sacrifice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

If you think that was really a terror attack your diluded, it was clearly an attack on themselves to get what they always wanted oil and control read the facts on it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

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By *hickinthewarmMan
over a year ago

Fife

"Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

Give me one example in history where that has been successful?

You can't fight hatred with love and charity. Especially not the sort or radical religious hatred we see today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

Post 9/11 in Libya and Iraq after the Americans decided to remove gadaffi and Sadam is worse than it ever was...but that was the plan wasn't it? Next stop Syria and then we can start on Iran...that will make all this look like playtime

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer"

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

"Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Give me one example in history where that has been successful?

You can't fight hatred with love and charity. Especially not the sort or radical religious hatred we see today.

Very true and very sad.

The beheading of aid workers, suicide bombing innocents because they live in a "westernised way"

These people know nothing of love, just hatred.

And for what reason, for their own personal gain of power and money...

If the Americans interest was oil or gas, that is their business, however the British were not their for the same reason.

These people must be eradicated otherwise they will spread their hatred of all things west and the frequency and intensity of attacks on our home soil will increase.

Sad but true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fighting hatred with love and charity?

Give me one example in history where that has been successful?

You can't fight hatred with love and charity. Especially not the sort or radical religious hatred we see today.

Very true and very sad.

The beheading of aid workers, suicide bombing innocents because they live in a "westernised way"

These people know nothing of love, just hatred.

And for what reason, for their own personal gain of power and money...

If the Americans interest was oil or gas, that is their business, however the British were not their for the same reason....

Errrr you do know the Americans and the English are in this together don't you?

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer"

What do you suggest?......maybe a Trump wall but far, far bigger?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

America still lives in the days of the Wild West, this, and it is my _iew only, was nothing more than a modern day take on the classic cowboy posse.

Of course when something as utterly horrendous as 9/11 happens to you it is only natural to want to find the cult and string them up by their testicles, however, I believe more harm than good has been achieved.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I think the US response to 9/11 was typical of the West today.

Too little, too late resulting in causing more damage in the long run than an immediate overwhelming retaliatory strike against all those involved in perpetrating, financing, protecting and planing of 9/11.

But hey, that's what happens these days.

Proportional responses to violence only cause escalation in violence from those who first used violence. We know this, we have thousands of years of history to prove it, but still we continually make the same mistake when dealing with violence. Turning the other cheek (appeasement) gives the violent licence to carry on, meeting violence with equal violence only acts to provoke an even more violent response. The only thing that really deters the violent is a total kicking that is so extreme that the violent and all their mates take one look and decide that they don't want a bit of that!

This unfortunately holds universally true from the schoolyard bully and their gang of followers to the would be emperors of the world and the military machines they control.

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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago

Babbacombe Torquay

The US was totally aware that prominent members of the Saudi Royal family were behind the funding of 9/11, yet they still to this day refuse to admit this to the American electorate.....it's all about the oil.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The US was totally aware that prominent members of the Saudi Royal family were behind the funding of 9/11, yet they still to this day refuse to admit this to the American electorate.....it's all about the oil."

The USA has a history of backing and attacking the wrong people all over the world. It is not so much about the oil as so many people think. It is about access to markets for US business.

The USA will prop up the most repressive of regimes and topple the most liberal and progressive of countries if it gets their businesses unregulated access to and control of markets.

The Republican party will even paralyse their own country if US business is threatened by regulation.

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

If they had retaliated with the right people instead of staging an illegal war to profit themselves yes but as they went out to systematically destroy the middle east no.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sabre rattling with terrible consequences.

America has lost more people to gun crime than they have in all the wars they have waged.. Ever.

The loss of life on 9/11 was terrible. It amounts to about 25% of people lost to gun crime every year in the USA.

I struggle to work it out!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

They sure got a lot of natural resources and made a HUGE tin if money in defence contracts out of it.....

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

"Sabre rattling with terrible consequences.

America has lost more people to gun crime than they have in all the wars they have waged.. Ever.

The loss of life on 9/11 was terrible. It amounts to about 25% of people lost to gun crime every year in the USA.

I struggle to work it out!"

What Americans do with their guns is their own business IMO. Total madness but they made their own bed

More importantly America is responsible for between 20 and 30 million deaths around the world since end of ww2

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By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

Is it crank week on Fab?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

They sure got a lot of natural resources and made a HUGE tin if money in defence contracts out of it....."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Watch the video "Loose Change" on yootoob, bit of an eye opener and will lead you other investigations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"
.

It certainly would have been the Christian thing to do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sabre rattling with terrible consequences.

America has lost more people to gun crime than they have in all the wars they have waged.. Ever.

The loss of life on 9/11 was terrible. It amounts to about 25% of people lost to gun crime every year in the USA.

I struggle to work it out!"
.

Nah, I struggle to belive that to be honest.

They lost 700,000 in the civil war alone

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. However it is clear that there is a difference between retaliation and a knee jerk reaction. Forgetting the many wrongs that may have been committed and the propensity for some elements to profiteer from the situation, I believe that America was justified in believing it could retaliate militarily...but that it got it's targets and methods wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Watch the video "Loose Change" on yootoob, bit of an eye opener and will lead you other investigations."

Take one of these on us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???"
.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

Seriously.....wasn't it the case that historically, many of the Arab peoples were nomadic?

Only asking as I really don't know whether this extends to the Palestinians.

And also.....how would stability be assured if things changed in Israel/Palestine?

I suggest that allowing change without universal consent would result in a bloodbath greater than the current mess in the Middle East......and it would be the innocents that suffer on both sides.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

Seriously.....wasn't it the case that historically, many of the Arab peoples were nomadic?

Only asking as I really don't know whether this extends to the Palestinians.

And also.....how would stability be assured if things changed in Israel/Palestine?

I suggest that allowing change without universal consent would result in a bloodbath greater than the current mess in the Middle East......and it would be the innocents that suffer on both sides."
.

No I was actually being sarcastic about the Jewish religion

A two state solution is and would be possible if....

The Palestinians could get decent leadership.

Israel actually meant it.

Unfortunately the current fuck up scenario suits both sides leaders

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By *verysmileMan
over a year ago

Canterbury

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

Seriously.....wasn't it the case that historically, many of the Arab peoples were nomadic?

Only asking as I really don't know whether this extends to the Palestinians.

And also.....how would stability be assured if things changed in Israel/Palestine?

I suggest that allowing change without universal consent would result in a bloodbath greater than the current mess in the Middle East......and it would be the innocents that suffer on both sides..

No I was actually being sarcastic about the Jewish religion

A two state solution is and would be possible if....

The Palestinians could get decent leadership.

Israel actually meant it.

Unfortunately the current fuck up scenario suits both sides leaders"

No disrespect but if you made anti Semitic comments as a member of a political party, you would be expelled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Arabs are actually awfully racist towards Muslims and many other tribes of the middle East.

Arabs and thoroughbreds are culturally linked in the arab mind... There a bit like Jews... You can be Jewish but your only a proper Jew or Arab if you've got the lineage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

Seriously.....wasn't it the case that historically, many of the Arab peoples were nomadic?

Only asking as I really don't know whether this extends to the Palestinians.

And also.....how would stability be assured if things changed in Israel/Palestine?

I suggest that allowing change without universal consent would result in a bloodbath greater than the current mess in the Middle East......and it would be the innocents that suffer on both sides..

No I was actually being sarcastic about the Jewish religion

A two state solution is and would be possible if....

The Palestinians could get decent leadership.

Israel actually meant it.

Unfortunately the current fuck up scenario suits both sides leaders

No disrespect but if you made anti Semitic comments as a member of a political party, you would be expelled."
.

Yeah I know, they threw me out already though

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Arabs are actually awfully racist towards Muslims and many other tribes of the middle East.

Arabs and thoroughbreds are culturally linked in the arab mind... There a bit like Jews... You can be Jewish but your only a proper Jew or Arab if you've got the lineage"

Jews are Arab by lineage.

Just saying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sabre rattling with terrible consequences.

America has lost more people to gun crime than they have in all the wars they have waged.. Ever.

The loss of life on 9/11 was terrible. It amounts to about 25% of people lost to gun crime every year in the USA.

I struggle to work it out!.

Nah, I struggle to belive that to be honest.

They lost 700,000 in the civil war alone"

From memory, I think the numbers are 1.4m lost in war against 1.3m by gun crime. Remarkable stat!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Arabs are actually awfully racist towards Muslims and many other tribes of the middle East.

Arabs and thoroughbreds are culturally linked in the arab mind... There a bit like Jews... You can be Jewish but your only a proper Jew or Arab if you've got the lineage

Jews are Arab by lineage.

Just saying.

"
.

Ha that's just Semitics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sabre rattling with terrible consequences.

America has lost more people to gun crime than they have in all the wars they have waged.. Ever.

The loss of life on 9/11 was terrible. It amounts to about 25% of people lost to gun crime every year in the USA.

I struggle to work it out!.

Nah, I struggle to belive that to be honest.

They lost 700,000 in the civil war alone

From memory, I think the numbers are 1.4m lost in war against 1.3m by gun crime. Remarkable stat!"
.

That is quite a remarkable death toll

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"Arabs are actually awfully racist towards Muslims and many other tribes of the middle East.

Arabs and thoroughbreds are culturally linked in the arab mind... There a bit like Jews... You can be Jewish but your only a proper Jew or Arab if you've got the lineage

Jews are Arab by lineage.

Just saying.

Ha that's just Semitics

No it is Sumerians.

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

"Close the borders to the middle east, allow no one in or out, and stop trading with them, far better answer

Then how will the European Jews return to their 'home' in Palestine???.

Whow there horsey.... That land was promised to the chosen ones by God itself

Israel are the biggest threat in the middle east at the moment with their nuclear power & acts of genocide on a weaker race...some people who are bullied become an even worse bully learning nothing from previous happenings in their lives.

Add this with America trying to destable every other middle east country you get anarchy...

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman
over a year ago

stourbridge area

Yes .... this

And as for the middle east ...my father was out their in the army when still called palestine .....and it is still going on

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By *igjrvMan
over a year ago

blackwood

No disrespect but None of you have the facts right. You can't win the hearts and minds of the deeply ingrained religious especially in there own countries. What it is, is an epic sized big picture of a vast and complicated Web of corruption and control. That involves:

religion, using peoples beliefs to control the population.

Power, the super rich fight in the shadows to gain control of the finances and resorces. one family controls almost all of the worlds banks except some in the middle east and 1 or 2 else where.

Control, who controls the resorces in the middle east? It's simple. Whom ever plays ball with the super powerful nations. Those nations that don't, they get punished. By imbargos or blockades.

You see people, in this game it's all about winning by any means necessary. Lies are always fed to the masses, propergander.

9-11. How does America get to control a middle eastern country that isn't playing ball. that wont let a family control it's banks and finances. That won't release it's oil? Simple fake an attack of bibilcal proportions to gain world support. And bullshit your way out of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Arabs are actually awfully racist towards Muslims and many other tribes of the middle East.

Arabs and thoroughbreds are culturally linked in the arab mind... There a bit like Jews... You can be Jewish but your only a proper Jew or Arab if you've got the lineage

Jews are Arab by lineage.

Just saying.

Ha that's just Semitics

No it is Sumerians.

"
.

Oooo Sumerians!!! Now there's a conspiracy all of its own

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By *ucianpoundCouple
over a year ago

Cap d’Agde, France

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?"

9/11 came up in conversation at a dinner party this week. Two guests, a chartered surveyer and an engineer both said 'there was no way that the towers should have collapsed because an airplane hit them! Another guest, a social historian, said that Al Kaida did not have the technological infrastructure to mount such an attack at the time.

The engineer, who had spent most of his career working in the Middle East then said that the Arms industry. was one of the biggest businesses in America and that War was good business.

Had not thought too deeply about this before and normally give short shift to conspiracy theorists, but food for thought at the same time as well as being a little bit too scary to contemplate !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To retaliate? Or should it have turned the other cheek? Or maybe just gone all out for hearts and minds across the middle east. Fighting hatred with love and charity?

The engineer, who had spent most of his career working in the Middle East then said that the Arms industry. was one of the biggest businesses in America and that War was good business.

Had not thought too deeply about this before and normally give short shift to conspiracy theorists, but food for thought at the same time as well as being a little bit too scary to contemplate !"

A recent 9/11 conspiracy thread on here split people's opinions into two groups. There were those who believed the officially reported version of events and subsequent enquiry and there were those who believed this was a pre-planned Government led attack on it's own people.

The very idea that a Government would murder it"s own citizens in such a way is just too much for most people to comprehend so it's easier to believe the official line.

There is overwhelming evidence, publicly available if you choose to look for it, that completely discredits the claim that it was a terrorist attack.

I've personally looked into this in great detail and have a few questions for the conspiracy theorist bashers.

Why did Larry Silverstein take out a massive insurance policy out 2 months before the attack which just happened to include terrorist attacks?

Bear in mind he went to court to argue that there should be two separate payouts for each tower, totalling nearly £7 billion.

Why did hundreds of people who were in the towers that day all report hearing explosions? Over 100 New York firefighters all reported hearing detonation blasts.

There was a massive explosion in the lobby of Tower 1 BEFORE any plane hit the building. This explosion was reported by staff and firefighters, a lot of whom sustained injuries from that blast.

Why could they not find 3 of the 4 flight recorded from the flights? Bear in mind that these are made from the strongest materials known to man. But they managed to find two of the hijackers passports in the rubble within 3 hours of the plane hitting.

Why was the plane which supposedly hit the Pentagon completely vaporised into thin air? Incidentally it just happened to hit the only part of the Pentagon which was undergoing renovations.

This conveniently obliterated the only part of the building which held crucial information on the missing 2.3 trillion dollars Donald Rumsfeld had spoken about the day before.

I could go on, all the information is there in the public domain. Was it a Jack Nicholson line?....

Why can't we have the truth?.... Because you can't handle the truth!

All I can say is, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything! Peace x

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