FabSwingers.com forum: Pondering

By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

What makes a good film a good film? And what makes a classic film a classic?

I've seen two films I've never seen before this week. For me, that's quite impressive in itself, not that's relevant to this thread.

Anyway, film one was Lucy. I've read reviews and I knew what to expect. I got what I expected; it was rubbish. I wanted to see it anyway but I'm glad I didn't pay to see it at the cinema or buy the DVD.

The second film was Cool Hand Luke. This is a well regarded, classic film. It won an Oscar, I think and was nominated for several more.

I have mixed feelings about it. It wasn't as great as I'd hoped. The acting was great and the characters were believable but I didn't feel any emotion. The main character did it all on his terms and his spirit was never broken. So? I'm not sure what I missed because it's not going down on my list of great films.

So, what makes a great film or a classic? What did I miss in Cool Hand Luke? Which supposedly good film(s) did you not get?

Feel free to discuss Cool Hand Luke because it may help me see the greatness.

Or discuss any film anyone else mentions, (assuming anyone does because it's twenty past two on Saturday night/Sunday morning and most people are partying or sleeping), as it may help them see the film differently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think a good film is one which manages the capture you attention and, in some way, effect an emotional response through great story, good characters or an overload visceral action and explosions to allow you to slip your brain into neutral and simply enjoy the ride.

A great, or classic film, well that's one which stays with you, long after the end credits in some way. It resonates or makes you question an aspect of life or the self. Or is simply that 'go-to- feel good / switch-off epic that you turn to when everything is a bit shit - pure escapism.

The good / bad / classic argument is subjective. Like Soylent Green, taste in movies varies 'from person to person'. One persons life altering experience is another's 'paint drying' tedium. When you can introduce someone to a film (or book, or art) which speaks to you and see it have the same effect on them, its a great affirmation of your own thoughts and feelings; but sometimes it simply doesn't happen. Its just individualism - none of us are all wired the same and each of us sees the world in our own way.

In my experience, rather that try to convince someone of somethings greatness, I prefer to say 'show me something you think is great' and discuss!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..for the record I cannot sit through any of the Godfather films. They are cinematic mogadons in my eyes. Other people think they are masterpieces.

I consider Blade Runner a rare cinematic masterpieces. From its central themes of love and death, the visceral dystopian future, to the ultimate recognition that nothing is eternal. However, I have had long conversations with people who consider is to be a pile of utter shite and who want me to watch 'The Seventh Seal' instead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think a good film is one which manages the capture you attention and, in some way, effect an emotional response through great story, good characters or an overload visceral action and explosions to allow you to slip your brain into neutral and simply enjoy the ride.

In my experience, rather that try to convince someone of somethings greatness, I prefer to say 'show me something you think is great' and discuss!"

You could say the same about lots of things. Not just films.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I don't want anyone to convince me of the greatness of Cool Hand Luke. I'd like to hear from people who think it's great and learn why. I doubt I'll appreciate the film as they do but I'd like other perspectives from which to consider it.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Age and not being terrible make many a classic; in particular books. With films, the older and more venerable a film is, the more likely it is to be regarded as a classic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Green mile is a film I love. The acting was amazing and I sobbed through it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't want anyone to convince me of the greatness of Cool Hand Luke. I'd like to hear from people who think it's great and learn why. I doubt I'll appreciate the film as they do but I'd like other perspectives from which to consider it."

But, you've immediately devalued the other persons opinion by becoming closed to the idea of changing your mind about something.

Based on your replay, it seems the only reason you would want someone else's opinion on Cool Hand Luke is to re-enforce your own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me I don't know whether I have bad taste or what but I often have to ignore what others say.

Some films people say are crap I love and vice versa.

I like what I like and not all are classics haha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think its more about what you like and don't like plus advertising. The problem with advertising is that they pick out bits and it makes the film look good; I thought Magic Mike looked great, blokes stripping but in actual fact it was dreadful and I slept through most of it.

I watched the 39 steps at the cinema with a friend, he loved it and sat glued to it, I slept. The period of the film was brilliantly created but I just hated it.

As to Cool Hand Luke, not sure as I have watched it many years ago but other than the gorgeous Paul Newman, I can't remember much else.

I've watched one of those week day afternoon films and thought it was brilliant, no idea what it was called but enjoyed it nonetheless.

I've watched a film called Beautiful People, absolutely superb.

I love sci fi films, cartoon films but if I start watching a film and get hooked from the start, I will watch something that isn't what I would normally watch. Films are like a book for me; if its boring in the first couple of pages, I stop watching.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since I moved out of my grandparents house to live on my own I've had to abandon my favourite genre of film which is supernatural horror, I've got an over active imagination and an excellent memory so things play on my mind!

Haven't watched a new film for a while, last one was gone girl and I enjoyed that but it's a once film for me, I did buy it but it'll just sit on my shelves now.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

But, you've immediately devalued the other persons opinion by becoming closed to the idea of changing your mind about something.

Based on your replay, it seems the only reason you would want someone else's opinion on Cool Hand Luke is to re-enforce your own. "

I'm not sure how you work that out. I'm not "closed" to changing my mind but I doubt I'll be able to appreciate the film as the other person. As you say, we are all individuals and will evaluate things from our own perspective.

I'm asking for comments of others so I can see the film from other points of view. I don't need anyone to agree with my view because that's not giving me a different perspective at all.

Since when have I ever needed anyone to reinforce my opinion? I believe I demonstrate quite often enough that I'm quite capable of holding my own opinion even if I am the only one with that opinion.

Do you actually have an opinion yourself on the film, incidentally, or are you just here to question my motives for wanting to discuss this? In which case I'm left wondering why, as it's hardly an earth-shatteringly important subject.

Why would I ask for *other* perspectives if I didn't want to hear them? I gave my current opinion but I didn't ask if anyone agrees with me. I want to hear why others *don't* agree with me and to hear *other* views, which is what I asked. How you get "closed" to opinions other than my own from that, I do not know!

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Its subjective. A good film is a film I want to see again, whether I enjoyed it the first time, or didn't as much as I thought and want to check it again.

I thought I'd hate The Life Aquatic, but because it was weird I really liked it. I thought I'd dislike the Grand Budapest Hotel, but loved it. I wasn't sure about Sunshine Cleaning but now own it. Who knows?

I didn't like Cool Hand Luke. Maybe it was a classic when it cam out, but I was bored. I've never seen Citizen Kane or Gone with the Wind. I know what I like and, though I will risk seeing some films, I tend to stick with my chosen genres.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Its subjective. A good film is a film I want to see again, whether I enjoyed it the first time, or didn't as much as I thought and want to check it again.

I thought I might enjoy A Life Aquatic but I didn't understand what it was trying to do and it bored me because I didn't connect with it in any way. I turned it off after a short period of time.

Lost in Translation was another film I didn't understand and found tedious. My then bf loved it.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I expected to like Mama Mia, (I like ABBA music), but can't stand it.

Some of the singing makes my ears bleed. I know that's sort of, part of the point but I just can't listen to it. It jars and gets in the way of the story.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I find it tedious when people tell me what I should like, and I will never impose my choices on them. I understand that Avatar is not the intellectual pinnacle of film, and I avoided it due to the hype, but when I saw it I was transfixed. I am a huge fan of Tolkien but even I haven't been able to drum up the desire to see the last Hobbit film. I am into Wu Xia films, but others find them patronising and banal. Fine by me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But, you've immediately devalued the other persons opinion by becoming closed to the idea of changing your mind about something.

Based on your replay, it seems the only reason you would want someone else's opinion on Cool Hand Luke is to re-enforce your own.

I'm asking for comments of others so I can see the film from other points of view. I don't need anyone to agree with my view because that's not giving me a different perspective at all.

Since when have I ever needed anyone to reinforce my opinion? I believe I demonstrate quite often enough that I'm quite capable of holding my own opinion even if I am the only one with that opinion.

Ill be brief.

1) I was answering your more general questions in your OP about what makes a film great.

2) Never seen it, hence why I offered no opinion specific to Cool Hand Luke. I don't offer opinions on things I have no experience or knowledge of (or if I do I declare as such)

Whilst I would love to take the time to answer the rest of it, its a nice day; so I'm going to agree to disagree on the rest of your post.

Have a nice day.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I haven't watched Avatar yet. I have it here on DVD. I should get round to watching it.

I've got a stack of new films to watch but struggle to concentrate throughout an entire film, even if I'm really enjoying it.

I've not seen X-Men Days of Future Past or the second 300 film yet, both of which seem to be exactly my sort of film.

I saw the Lord of the Rings trilogy but have seen neither of the Hobbit films, (there are two now, aren't there? I've lost track), they would be a real challenge for my ability to concentrate and it's a case of choosing my battles!

I'm not sure about Gone Girl, mentioned above. I've heard good things about the book. It's available via my NowTV box so I might try it.

I also want to see American Sniper.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

But, you've immediately devalued the other persons opinion by becoming closed to the idea of changing your mind about something.

Based on your replay, it seems the only reason you would want someone else's opinion on Cool Hand Luke is to re-enforce your own.

I'm asking for comments of others so I can see the film from other points of view. I don't need anyone to agree with my view because that's not giving me a different perspective at all.

Since when have I ever needed anyone to reinforce my opinion? I believe I demonstrate quite often enough that I'm quite capable of holding my own opinion even if I am the only one with that opinion.

Ill be brief.

1) I was answering your more general questions in your OP about what makes a film great.

2) Never seen it, hence why I offered no opinion specific to Cool Hand Luke. I don't offer opinions on things I have no experience or knowledge of (or if I do I declare as such)

Whilst I would love to take the time to answer the rest of it, its a nice day; so I'm going to agree to disagree on the rest of your post.

Have a nice day.

Whatever

I'm still not sure what warranted this attack on my "closed mind", how you formed that ridiculous idea, or how asking for other opinions indicates an unwillingness to listen to them, but you are entitled to think whatever nonsense you invent.

Enjoy the lovely day.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Still, it may well be the only time ever I've been accused of needing others to agree with me in order to hold an opinion!

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I haven't watched Avatar yet. I have it here on DVD. I should get round to watching it.

I've got a stack of new films to watch but struggle to concentrate throughout an entire film, even if I'm really enjoying it.

I've not seen X-Men Days of Future Past or the second 300 film yet, both of which seem to be exactly my sort of film.

I'm not sure about Gone Girl, mentioned above. I've heard good things about the book. It's available via my NowTV box so I might try it.

I also want to see American Sniper."

Wit your taste in films I recommend the Dwayne Johnson Hercules. Its hokey but fun, and anything that has Ian McShane in is always good for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I expected to like Mama Mia, (I like ABBA music), but can't stand it.

Some of the singing makes my ears bleed. I know that's sort of, part of the point but I just can't listen to it. It jars and gets in the way of the story."

I feel your pain as my friends raved about Moulin Rouge, I hated it along with Hairspray and couldn't get into Les Miserable nor Frozen either. Think I really have to be in the mood for musicals, either that or I just prefer the old musicals

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I haven't watched Avatar yet. I have it here on DVD. I should get round to watching it.

I've got a stack of new films to watch but struggle to concentrate throughout an entire film, even if I'm really enjoying it.

I've not seen X-Men Days of Future Past or the second 300 film yet, both of which seem to be exactly my sort of film.

I'm not sure about Gone Girl, mentioned above. I've heard good things about the book. It's available via my NowTV box so I might try it.

I also want to see American Sniper.

Wit your taste in films I recommend the Dwayne Johnson Hercules. Its hokey but fun, and anything that has Ian McShane in is always good for me.

I'll look it out, thank you.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I expected to like Mama Mia, (I like ABBA music), but can't stand it.

Some of the singing makes my ears bleed. I know that's sort of, part of the point but I just can't listen to it. It jars and gets in the way of the story.

I finally saw Guys and Dolls at Christmas and loved it far more than I expected to. I haven't seen many old musicals; I should try more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know what makes another person's idea of a great film, but one of my all time favourites is True Romance. I find the mix of brilliant music, a memorable script, comedy, a bit of action and at the heart of it, a very realistic and true love story, extremely appealing. And 90s Christian Slater was extremely easy on the eyes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Films that are great for me engage me fully, mentally and emotionally. If I laugh and cry, believe the characters and can lose myself in the watching of the film, that is when a film becomes great for me. Good films I felt entertained and wanted to watch the film without distraction and to watch it again. There are very few films I remember well, if I do remember it in detail then it's a really great film for me.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

A great film for me is believable and immersive. The people in it are just that - they're not actors.

I prefer some awe at the filming, whether it's novel or somehow allows me to perceive differently or gain understanding really succinctly - or it may somehow allow me to realize something incredibly brilliantly.

I'll associate into the plot and characters, have surprises and an emotional journey.

I don't know the Luke film and don't see as much film as when I lived in London.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

He was determined, that came across well. He was also others looked up to. Lots of sub text going on throughout the film.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What makes a good film a good film? And what makes a classic film a classic?"

I can only offer a personal opinion about the criteria I would use to evaluate a film:

Does it teach me anything?

Does it hit my emotions?

Are there interesting technical aspects?

Do I admire the acting?

Is it a faithful interpretation of a story I enjoyed reading?

And the acid test: would I watch it again?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Films provide a set period of time to immerse myself into something. Sometimes it is enjoyable for that bubble of a moment, at others it is an emotional rollercoaster that leaves me drained, affected and with something to think about.

I think you're mood, expectations and environment can affect how you see and experience a film. Adverts and the ability to pause creates a different experience to holding on to go to the loo at the cinema because you don't want to miss anything.

Great films work on lots of levels: the images/cinematography, the casting, the acting, the script and how that has been interpreted by both the director and the actors, the colouration, the music and sound levels and then how the whole thing has been edited together.

The marketing affects which films become popular. Popularity can raise a mediocre film to great status because so many people have been affected by it. It may not bear the scrutiny of a second viewing but it remains popular because people who saw it remember it fondly, buy the DVD and pass it on to someone else.

Classic films have all of the above but with the factor that means who can watch them again and again. For some it may be the familiarity and comfort that brings is what draws you back (Kapra's It's A Wonderful Life is like that for me, plus it has James Stewart). For others it is a film that you can find more in it as your own experience and understanding grows (Welles' Citizen Kane for me).

I choose films for the subject matter as much as anything (most recently that would be Dear White People, it's not a great film but has some really good moments and it's a film I am glad was made).

I have seen films at the Film Festival that I have thought are fantastic films but they then don't get a distribution deal so only film geeks would ever know about them.

I won't see some films, usually remakes or those from books, as I can't imagine that the interpretation will live up to my expectations. That said, Shawshank and The Green Mile were both as good or better than the King novellas (usually interpretations of King novels fail to capture enough). I am closed minded on some of these and it takes a lot to convince me to give them a go.

I haven't seen Cool Hand Luke for some time. I think it is a classic because it has layers to it. On my first viewing his determination and spirit captured me. A second viewing had me wondering why he didn't give up and stop being so bloody-minded, being irked at the pettiness of it all and wondering why he was seen as a hero by any of the other characters. Where, when and my mental state affected what I saw and when.

All films are products of their era too (Michael Caine's hair in Zulu is a closer representation to 1964 than than 1879). Thoughts on particular subjects affect how they are presented.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I guess it depends what you mean by great. A film can be great because it broke new ground and should go down in history for some reason. Quite a lot of the old Hitchcock's etc are great for that reason. They pushed the format to new heights. Other films are great because they display exquisite artistry. Days of Heaven, for example, is an exceptional example of exquisite cinematography, as is Farewell My Concubine. For me, the greatest of these types of films that exhibit exceptional film making talent and imagination... not just great acting. You can have great acting in a shit film. So Babel, for example, is a stunning display of being able to string multiple storylines together. And Memento is a mind-blowing telling of a story backwards. The best of David Lynch's work is just wonderfully wonky and rich. And some of the French new wave are simply exquisitely photographed and edited, even if you need to ignore their pretyentiousness lol

Finally, of course, there are films that touch you in a deep way. These are really down to your own nature and life story. For example, I'm one of those fools that loves Kevin Costners work.. it just touches me with its dignity and sensitivity. But I can see why most people would think its shit lol

For me, the greatest films have heart and compassion for the human condition. If it hasn't got that you can chuck as much budget and CG effects at it as you like... you'll only be polishing a turd IMO. It's this lack of heart which turns me off the likes of Tarrantino, the Wachowski brothers, and the Coen brothers. They're fun films... but they didn't need to be made.

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field

Very little that comes out of Hollywood now will ever make most 'classic' lists as its all about brand/effects/merchandising instead of the fundamental bedrock of any decent movie- an outstanding script and the perfect choice of actors- thats where many 'foreign' films excel over Hollywood, they don't have humongous budgets and they don't always use the same small pool of leading stars.

While Lucy was OK, its just another Adventure/Sci Fi film.

Cool Hand Luke is a fairly blokey movie, so maybe thats why you didn't warm to it. I also think Hud is a superior example of Newman's work in that era, but its overlooked a little and has more of a 'film noir' feel to it with its stark setting, lack of much music and long fixed filler shots.

I've only recently watched Raging Bull for the first time and that was quite underwhelming for the hype surrounding it, it just lacked something that was present in Scorcese's later works like Casino and Goodfellers.

What makes a classic? I don't think there's any definitive answer to that other than it delivers something that just feels right to either a mass audience, a particular group or just random individuals where it attains Cult status...If I knew the answer i'd be a very rich man

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..for the record I cannot sit through any of the Godfather films. They are cinematic mogadons in my eyes. Other people think they are masterpieces.

Blade runner is one of the best films of all time. Godfather I liked. The sequels not so much.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Green mile is a film I love. The acting was amazing and I sobbed through it.

Green mile. Shawshank redemption and hotel Rwanda are my top 3 films. They kept me engrossed and I went through a roller coaster of emotions watching all 3. There are many more films that come close but those 3 stick out for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Very little that comes out of Hollywood now will ever make most 'classic' lists as its all about brand/effects/merchandising instead of the fundamental bedrock of any decent movie- an outstanding script and the perfect choice of actors- thats where many 'foreign' films excel over Hollywood, they don't have humongous budgets and they don't always use the same small pool of leading stars."

I think both Babel and Starship Troopers were great films because of their use of certain actors. In Babel Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett played american tourists whilst nameless foreign actors played the others. This wonderfully summed up the Wests view of the situation. Routing for "our guys" over the faceless others. It was a very thoughtful use of big talent to make a point.

Starship Troopers did the same. It was a commentary on the seductions of Fascism in a future mediatised age where Fascism had become glossy and desireable. To further this point Verhoeven used actors from probably the most bimbo-y show on US tv at the time "beverly hills 90210". He wanted to make his depiction of Fascism appeal to the teen market through the use of airhead actors with cult followings in that demographic. It was, once again, a fascinating use of actors to convey an interesting subversive point about our own culture.

So, when done thoughtfully casting can add to the calibre of a film rather than detract from it

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Some films are made to be epics, think Gladiator, or Ben Hur (both great films), and some are made to just entertain, like the various Chevy Chase-lead "Vacation" films, which are exactly what they say on the tin, a bit of silliness for a giggle.

But one persons opinion of what makes a truly "great" film will differ, take last night, my daughter raved about the Ryan Reynolds film "Voices" said it was hilarious.... my son and I watched it and thought it was shite.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So, when done thoughtfully casting can add to the calibre of a film rather than detract from it

Wow very deep!! I loved Starship Troopers because I like sci fi and I've seen it a few times, am sure though the lead actress is well known

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I struggle with films, I have a short attention span, so if it can keep my interest it must in my opinion be good.

I've seen films that people rave about and just don't get it more often than not.

The most popular film that I really do like is Shawshank redemption it was recommended to me on here.

The centenian man was recommended and I loved that.

The one that I really enjoyed that took me by surprise forgotten the name about the code breaker, only went cause I knew jay would enjoy it and loved it.

Also enjoyed the silent one that I didn't think would be my cup of tea.

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By *ee Viante OP Woman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

The one that I really enjoyed that took me by surprise forgotten the name about the code breaker, only went cause I knew jay would enjoy it and loved it.

The Imitation Game - about Alan Turing at Bletchley Park.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

The one that I really enjoyed that took me by surprise forgotten the name about the code breaker, only went cause I knew jay would enjoy it and loved it.

The Imitation Game - about Alan Turing at Bletchley Park."
yes that's the one, it came back to me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've seen Cool Hand Luke once,and it's good,but not a classic for me.I remember 3 things about it ; The egg eating scenes,the woman washing the car and the dialogue sampled for Guns n Roses Civil War...

Another oft proclaimed as a classic,is Papillon.It's good,but it's also quite long winded for me.

But hey,like music,art and a whole host of things in life,it's all subjective.

What I will say though.If the right person,be it a critic or a celebrity,or someone considered important on that field says it's brilliant,or a classic,it will probably be regarded as such...

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