FabSwingers.com forum: Assisted Suicide

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I have come across two arguments against making assisted suicide legal.

The first is that it is a sin. Well, I can't see that any God displaying the quality of mercy would hold a grudge.

The second is that it could be exploited by greedy relatives. Surely any system in place to help people can be exploited. The health system Wills. Powers of attorney. The benefits system. Not all of those may lead to death, certainly, but I do not think that just because something might be exploited does not mean that it should not be introduced.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondjoeMan
over a year ago

Glastonbury

"I have come across two arguments against making assisted suicide legal.

The first is that it is a sin. Well, I can't see that any God displaying the quality of mercy would hold a grudge.

There is a huge case for treating people in the end stage of their lives with the dignity and respect that we would, for instance, give to a beloved pet that's blind, incontinent and generally had enough...

But yes, that line of who has the final say-so and what legal and medical check are imposed are vital.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

But yes, that line of who has the final say-so and what legal and medical check are imposed are vital. "

Checks are important, yes. The final say-so is critical. That must demonstrably lie with the person who has decided to end their life. They did not choose to enter this world. They did not ask for permission to do so. Why should they be prohibited from exiting it with some degree of dignity?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

This is why I have a statement of directive

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"This is why I have a statement of directive

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"This is why I have a statement of directive

I googled that but nothing relevant was returned. I assume it is a living will. While it is better to have one than not, it has no real legal standing, I am afraid. A doctor or relative implementing your wishes could still face prosecution."
yes, living will, it doesn't hold any legal standing but they know your wishes while you are compass mentus, mine covers a lot of things including medication I do/ do not want to receive, how much information I want my relatives to know etc, its quite detailed.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ammerdrillandcrackMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Yes i have assisted suicide Before my gold fish became ill so i gave it to the piranha i was reported to the Aquatics centre but they said there was nothing fishy about it lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones."

I agree.

Several countries permit it with safeguards and the reported statistics such as they are do not suggest any issues.

It was not until 1961 that suicide itself stopped being a criminal offence (and it had been a hangable offence) in this country. Go figure. Mr Smith elected to end his life. Send him to prison. Hang him. Doh.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The game of life is hard to play

I'm gonna lose it anyway

The losing card I'll someday lay

so this is all I have to say.

If suicide was painless

it brings on many changes

and I could take or leave it if I please

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones.

I agree.

Several countries permit it with safeguards and the reported statistics such as they are do not suggest any issues.

The problem with this country is that everyone is suspicious of everyone else's motives and any request for assisted suicide will require numerous meetings and assessments of mental capacity and we know how utterly awful our social services and social care system currently is at the moment.

What will happen is that someone will request to die and they'll be kept alive in agony while an over-managed committee decides their fate for 18 months.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones.

I agree.

Several countries permit it with safeguards and the reported statistics such as they are do not suggest any issues.

Where as now it's a mental illness! And they lock you up and give you drugs to cure you!

I guess nobody could perceive that in some cases death is better than life?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As Diamondsmiles said, a living will or directive. In many cases, the person can take the decision themselves (such as taking a one way trip to Switzerland).

As for the mortal sin angle? This is the same God that allows good people and children to suffer through cancer. He has no right to stand in judgement.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it's a tough one, if people are terminally ill and choose to die with respect and dignity I'm all for that, nobody should be left to suffer, why drag out a few more month of pain and suffering when they could be put to rest before they get to that point

My problem has always been what about people with conditions such as dementia who may also be terminally ill who decides to end their life?

if you don't have full mental capacity and can't decide for yourself I honestly don't know where I sit with that, choosing to end your own life is one thing having somebody choose for you is another

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it was the case that I was terminal

Rather then make my family sit and watch me deteriorate

I'd like to have the choice to go with dignity maybe in my own home with family there

Rather then in a hospital in the middle of the night alone

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you want to die, you should be to do so.. It's your life. No one should tell anyone else that they can't.

And god doesn't even come into it with me. He's not real and therefore shouldn't have anything to do with anything outside the church.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Terry Pratchett's Shaking Hands With Death arrived half an hour ago. I am in tears.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a personal level I struggle to get round the concept of an almost business like case to die. I hate the thought of it.

I do however support the cause for it to be considered here.

Not sure if I make sense.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As Diamondsmiles said, a living will or directive. In many cases, the person can take the decision themselves (such as taking a one way trip to Switzerland).

But why should someone have the upheaval and upset of travelling to Switzerland to end their life? And no that their loved ones will still be spoken to the police on their return as they will be subject to a safeguarding investigation.

And a living will often lacks dignity if it involves withholding medication.

People should be in control of their own death

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

"As Diamondsmiles said, a living will or directive. In many cases, the person can take the decision themselves (such as taking a one way trip to Switzerland).

And a living will often lacks dignity if it involves withholding medication.

People should be in control of their own death"
lacks dignity in what way?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Although I fully respect anyone's opinion on this matter, I'm unable to see how any blanket legislation could sufficiently minimises the risks of decisions being taken for the wrong reasons.....

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"it's a tough one, if people are terminally ill and choose to die with respect and dignity I'm all for that, nobody should be left to suffer, why drag out a few more month of pain and suffering when they could be put to rest before they get to that point

My problem has always been what about people with conditions such as dementia who may also be terminally ill who decides to end their life?

if you don't have full mental capacity and can't decide for yourself I honestly don't know where I sit with that, choosing to end your own life is one thing having somebody choose for you is another

If I was in a state from which I believed there was no recovery (I am not, by the way, before some Facebook mechanism kicks in), then I want to be the judge of that. I don't want some third parties filling me with tubes and fluids in an awful hospital bed. I have the capacity to know when I wish to exit this world. Even with dementia I believe I would retain the knowledge as to whether my time was over. I might have difficulties expressing it but I would know.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Yes i have assisted suicide Before my gold fish became ill so i gave it to the piranha i was reported to the Aquatics centre but they said there was nothing fishy about it lol."

Aquatic Centre ???

Was it an Olympic Goldfish.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Although I fully respect anyone's opinion on this matter, I'm unable to see how any blanket legislation could sufficiently minimises the risks of decisions being taken for the wrong reasons.....

We need to look at how other countries (where it's legal) for guidance and build our model from there. Sadly that probably wouldn't happen because every Tom, Dick and Harry would think they know better than everyone else.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Although I fully respect anyone's opinion on this matter, I'm unable to see how any blanket legislation could sufficiently minimises the risks of decisions being taken for the wrong reasons.....

The research has been done. The Oregon model seems to be successful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Although I fully respect anyone's opinion on this matter, I'm unable to see how any blanket legislation could sufficiently minimises the risks of decisions being taken for the wrong reasons.....

I addressed that in the opening post. You cannot dismiss a system because it might be open to abuse. Any system involving humans is open to potential abuse. Our justice system can produce horrific results but I would not advocate abandoning a justice system.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones."

This.

Same amount of deaths, it just means for some that it won't be long slow drawn out painful and humiliating.

It is wrong to make people suffer, just to protect life. If there is no quality of life, then it's a living hell not living.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Assisted dying won't increase the number of deaths if it's properly regulated. What it will do is reduce the amount of suffering.

I've seen countless people begging to be allowed to die when they're needlessly being kept alive in agony with no dignity.

It's considered compassionate when we do it for our pets but illegal to do it for our loved ones."

They should stop pissing about and just get it legalised.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *usterMan
over a year ago

worthing

AT what stage does the euthanasia get triggered? I have friends with MS who expressed the wish to be terminated when life is too much for them. Some have changed their minds as their condition deteriorated. One of them doesn't have the mental capacity to change their mind now. Go figure it out!

We are all fallible beings blown about by the winds of time. To which request do we respond. Maybe the only way is to commit suicide just after we reach our peak of perfection.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"AT what stage does the euthanasia get triggered? I have friends with MS who expressed the wish to be terminated when life is too much for them. Some have changed their minds as their condition deteriorated. One of them doesn't have the mental capacity to change their mind now. Go figure it out!

We are all fallible beings blown about by the winds of time. To which request do we respond. Maybe the only way is to commit suicide just after we reach our peak of perfection."

Euthanasia is not the correct term. It is not difficult to piece together a reasonable system to cope with these issues and much better to allow it than prohibit it in all circumstances.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are all fallible beings blown about by the winds of time. To which request do we respond. Maybe the only way is to commit suicide just after we reach our peak of perfection.

Euthanasia is not the correct term. It is not difficult to piece together a reasonable system to cope with these issues and much better to allow it than prohibit it in all circumstances."

It's suicide. Not euthanasia.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *usterMan
over a year ago

worthing

So what does the suicide do to trigger their death?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In countries where euthansia is legal, such as the Netherlands, there is a whole protocol to follow for doctors, patiens and family. It doesnt fail. Its very safe, respectfull and effective. It doesn't leave people in the awful position of having to commit suicide!!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the problem is we've given specific values to life more than anything else.

We farm animals and eat them, yet cannibalism is considered disgusting. Just because we prioritise human life over other life.

We also have a system that gives people a monetary value based on things other than their time, which we all give our time when we work for someone else, the only thing we own is our life and time here. It doesn't make sense that someone gives up their time for less worth than someone else, no matter how much study they put in for their job or anything else because, end of the day, we all gave up our time to contribute towards society.

Humans are users of others, pure and simple. Once we become true equals and realise others have the right to decide what they do with their own life (instead of being forced), then we will be allowed to do what we want with our own lives, including end it.

Like someone already mentioned we can put down our pets if they're suffering, that's because we have decided that animals do not have the right to die of their own accord, we decided we should make that choice for them because we made them are our burden. I think the world has changed a lot since i came into it and will advance socially eve faster once i've gone, but we're becoming way more intelligent and observant as a collective and it's for the better right now.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread